#8 | Purgatory is Biblical, Common Sense, and in a Parable of Jesus

[@RobKHere]

This just shows me how strongly God wants us to be with Him.

[@lellachu1682]

Thank you! Jesus' teaching in the parable in Luke completely opened my eyes to the truth of purgatory.

[@RomansCh.218-32-p]

Your eyes are NOT opened, they are 100% blind. Repent of your fake, Godless religion!

[@BS.Mira685]

You are confused, Purgatory is a place where you pay for sins, and Masses are said for the dead; cause the cross was not a perfect Sacrifice, but read your Bible, it was a Perfect Sacrifice .......and this guy is a reprobate. Read 2 Cor. 5:17-20

[@seasonedwithsalt5129]

@@BS.Mira685 ,..Correct, those who are confused, lost, deceived, unsaved, Biblically illiterate, and 100% outside of the kingdom of God are the catholics/orthodox. There is NO such thing as purgatory!!! Yes, all catholics are reprobates, the accursed of God, and are all Gods enemies. The lake of fire awaits all catholics/orthodox.

[@hewhohasearstohearlethimhe9509]

@@BS.Mira685 ,..Correct, those who are confused, lost, deceived, unsaved, Biblically illiterate, and 100% outside of the kingdom of God are the catholics/orthodox. There is NO such thing as purgatory!!! Yes, all catholics are reprobates, the accursed of God, and are all Gods enemies. The lake of fire awaits all catholics/orthodox.

[@antoniodiaz2000-6]

@@BS.Mira685you don’t pay sins in purgatory you are cleansed and purified , rethink your consistence before you think with your belief

[@Rue1008]

Very precise and logical - thanks so much Josh for this excellent teaching, God bless !

[@StephanieTejeda-l6h]

Thank you Josh Charles. I’m glad someone is telling the truth ! 👍

[@luisgerardoluevanosmedina433]

Jesuschrist I Trust in You. JESUCRISTO EN VOS CONFIO !

[@thedon978]

Congratulations, Joshua! Beautiful set. Beautiful program! You are a treasure for the Church. ctm

[@ElijahsSpirit]

The more I hear from you Joshua , the more I want . Your a very good teacher, clear, logical and done lovingly. I will pray the Lord will draw many here, what you present is so need in Our Church, and all Christianity.. Keep along this path, and don't give up, we need you , esp. those who don't know they need this..............God Bless and keep you.

[@chrismaxx8528]

Loved it! I sent it to my protestant mom!

[@billlee2194]

Thanks Joshua. For me, Matthew 18:33-35 you cited is the clearest explicit passage describing a form of purgatory. Jesus is wrapping up the parable of the unmerciful servant which He ends with a 'literal' warning.... "and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. (So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart).” Here Jesus states explicitly that if we do not forgive others from our heart, the Father will hand us over to the jailer until we pay all our debt. It's clear Jesus is referring to a temporal punishment and not an eternal punishment because the punishment is only until all our debt is paid. I think this can be difficult for some Protestants to grasp because we were taught that Jesus' death on the cross paid in full ALL our debt and took on ALL punishment due to us including TEMPORAL punishment. I believe Jesus' warning here should prove to us that is not the case. God's blessings to all.

[@ptk8451]

I think ijesus is speaking of Hell.You have to take the whole parable and not just the detsila.If you are taking the details what is the answer to the question who is the neighbour to the man who fell among theives.And in that case wouldnt commandment to live thy neighbour as thyself be love the one who helps you.Obviously .That is not the point.Please dont twist the Bible to satisfy your doctrines

[@billlee2194]

@@ptk8451 That line I cited was "and should not you have had mercy on your fellow servant, as I had mercy on you?’ And in anger his lord delivered him to the jailers, till he should pay all his debt. So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” I don't see how this could refer to hell since the imprisionment is only 'till' the debt is paid in full at which time the person would be released from prison as justice served. There is no release from hell that I'm aware of so I don't see how it could be referring to hell.

[@tonyl3762]

Many Protestants implicitly believe in Purgatory if you ask them a few strategic questions about sanctification, heaven, sin, and death.

[@MB-zn9vg]

It's also worth noting that a form of purgatory can also be included in this life

[@SolaPastora]

@@MB-zn9vgI love the idea of suffering on earth, bringing us closer to Christ. Someone said “sacra fice” has a Latin root for “make holy.”

[@vintage53-coversandorigina37]

I asked a Protestant once if he was perfect, he finally said no. He then admitted that something had to happen before he could go to heaven! Boom!!!

[@christianemutter2952]

@@vintage53-coversandorigina37 Perhaps it was a 'Protestant', but never an Evangelical. Mind the difference!

[@alisterrebelo9013]

​@@christianemutter2952 Do Evangelicals think they are perfected before their bodily death? I don't understand why you make a distinction between Protestants and Evangelicals.

[@fintan3563]

Hey is this fairly new? It was in my feed this morning. After this episode I’ll start from the beginning to get caught up. Our Lady of Fátima, pray for us! 💙💙💙 Father Fintan

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

Repent of your 100% fake, manmade, Godless religion!

[@randumgaming]

Beautifully done, Joshua! God bless you.

[@pianoatthirty]

Luke 12:41-48 so clearly describes Purgatory- a final purification process. Jesus is literally talking about one servant (ie, a follower) receiving a “severe beating”, and another receiving a “light beating” depending on their actions. This is the kind of parable Protestants have to skip over or fabricate some alternate meaning to fit into their “Once Saved, always saved/Jesus did everything so I can do nothing” paradigm.

[@donhaddix3770]

purification, you mean rewards

[@Ocapela215]

😂🤣😂🤣. This parable is about life. It's talking about those that knew the Lord's word and those that didn't. Basically, those that are supposedly "saved" and continue these actions will be punished in hell worse than those that never knew the Lord. It's the true definition of blaspheming the Holy Spirit. But notice they both get punished. Read the whole chapter.

[@donhaddix3770]

source for your claim? your doctrine is not scripture.

[@Ocapela215]

@@donhaddix3770 Me?

[@hirakisk1973]

@@Ocapela215 That's not what it is saying at all. A person really has to take it out of its historical context and meaning to get to that conclusion.

[@CIST3]

Excellent presentation. I teach high school Religion, and I often start by explaining that the form of the person is the soul because it lays down the proper hierarchy for students. I do so because it expands how they start making decisions for the rest of their lives as they consider the ultimate good of their choices. I may have to use your presentation in class. It is very well done and comprehensive.

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

Sorry, but this presentation was an absolutely unbiblical abomination, as is the entire 100% fake, manmade, Godless religion of catholicism. Repent!

[@Cholan-s7z]

Thank you so much for your wonderful explanation. God bless you. Keep going.

[@luisgerardoluevanosmedina433]

Traditional Catholic Faith, Forever and Ever !

[@donhaddix3770]

forever in hell.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@donhaddix3770 Ignorant hate-speech reported.

[@donhaddix3770]

@@HAL9000-su1mz nope. truthful and biblical.

[@luisgerardoluevanosmedina433]

@donhaddix3770 Ah ! One heretic protestant.🤡😈👹

[@donhaddix3770]

@@luisgerardoluevanosmedina433 one bible believer over catholic doctrine follower

[@horizon-one]

Wonderful and valuable. Will direct Protestants here😄 God bless you

[@roderickdickson8924]

Good luck, Josh, and God bless!

[@michaeljones2239]

I recently learned On Purgatory the early Jews also believed and taught it.

[@johnchung6777]

Excellent suburb and great informative video presentation on purgatory my catholic brother for I as a catholic understand you but there seems to be a barrier with other peoples spirit who cannot understand you and having said that I would like to mention about where Jesus went after he had died on the crucifix and as you know he said before he died that after he dies he’ll be in the heart of earth for three days.Now we know as Catholics that it can’t be hell for Jesus Christ lived an immaculate life from birth to his death so where is Jesus talking about.Thank you tremendously Catholic brother for your sharing of your knowledge on purgatory and May God the Holy Trinity bless protect and increase your understanding with an abundance of Truth Graces and Virtues Amen Amen Amen 🙏 🐑🕊️✨🔥

[@JDakaCorgi]

Okay, so being raised Pentecostal, we were strictly raised against the belief of Purgatory. Even after hearing you read that first verse, my entire being was like, "That's not Purgatory, that's not about the afterlife, at all", but then I started thinking; rather immediately (almost exactly at the same time as that other thought came into my mind), "Wait, what are the verses reading.... that does sound like Purgatory... wait, that is after death... that is purgatory. 🤯". Luke 12:35-48 explains the entire story to where we know it's about when the Christ returns. Add that above sentence in next time because that's a full and Incredible game changer because I almost missed how that really and truly is about purgatory bc I wasn't up reading at first. Not up reading made me think that y'all were really misinterpreting it at first, until I dod upread, so please add those verses because that really makes it a game changing read and reality. It's crazy incredible! Where the worm doesn't die, Isaiah 66:24, the one Jesus beautifully references, Mark 9:48, that's about Gehenna, not any kind of punishment in the afterlife and it's definitely not about some eternal punishment. Sheol, Tartarus, Gehenna and Hades, all of the original words from which Hell is translated, don't define an eternal place of punishment. The idea of hell isn't actually biblical.

[@Ocapela215]

If Jesus already took our sins how can purgatory exist. That would contradict Jesus dying on the Cross. Purgatory in life, maybe. Not after death.

[@clara.dewi_widya]

Purgatory is God's grace for souls that He loves but finds them unworthy of heaven yet. Nothing unclean will enter the presence of God in heaven (cf. Rev 21:27)

[@Ocapela215]

@clara.dewi_widya Which is why Jesus died for us and took our sins, it's not about sins, it's your relationship with Jesus that gets you into heaven, which is the verse goes: Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’

[@Ocapela215]

@@clara.dewi_widya So Jesus dying for our sins wasn't God's grace?

[@clara.dewi_widya]

@@Ocapela215 Jesus also said in John 6: 53 So Jesus said to them, “Very truly, I tell you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink His blood, you have no life in you. 54 Those who eat My flesh and drink My blood have eternal life, and I will raise them up on the last day; 55 for My flesh is true food and My blood is true drink. 56 Those who eat My flesh and drink My blood abide in Me, and I in them. 57 Just as the living Father sent me, and I live because of the Father, so whoever eats Me will live because of Me.

[@Ocapela215]

@@clara.dewi_widya Amen. That's a communion statement.

[@dominicpereira6006]

Is the sacrifice of Jesus complete or not ?

[@johnfenwick7641]

Purgatory is a must as a Catholic no one dies in perfect grace God is the only perfect one and in the Bible it says God cannot look a pond anything that is not perfect that is why his Son came to us and accepted his cup so that we could gain the gift of salvation and eventually be in heaven with God the Father but there must be a place between heaven and earth that we go thur first so we are free of all sins and blessed for the presence of God Amen 🙏

[@donhaddix3770]

not biblical

[@salachenkoforley7382]

@@donhaddix3770 : Sola Scriptura and Sola Fide are not Biblical at all.

[@donhaddix3770]

@@salachenkoforley7382 yes they are. catholic claims are not biblical.

[@SolaPastora]

How do Protestants interpret John’s epistle that some sin leads to death, and some sin does not lead to death. And if you see a brother (a saved Christian believer), commits a sin leading to death, don’t pray for that brother. How does a Protestant view those passages?

[@BensWorkshop]

Well, they deny the concept of mortal and venial sins.....

[@BensWorkshop]

@@AlexisHernandez-f7s Fair!

[@jeromepopiel388]

You quote it wrong. 1 John 5:16 [16]If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it. All sin are worthy of death. There is no sin that doesn't offend the Holy. Proverbs 6:16-19 [16]These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him: [17]A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, [18]An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief, [19]A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. The sin unto death is the sin which is not repented of.

[@SolaPastora]

@ I wasn’t quoting verbatim. But yeah, I’ll pray for those on earth who commit mortal sin. I won’t pray for souls that are in hell. You interpret to not pray for unrepentant souls alive on earth? Jesus said to visit those in prison. Your interpretation disregards that command.

[@kennethprather9633]

I had a motorcycle accident and was taken to a room by two angels. In that room, I sat down and talked with a 19 year old about my mother in law. At the end, he said, "Take care of my daughter" . It was then that I knew it was my Father in law in his new body. I asked him about what happened the last day of his life. He had died in the hospital of a blood clot . An hour after, we left his friend a Catholic Priest that ran the non-denominational chapel came in and he accepted Jesus. Two hours after that he died and was in heaven immediately! No Baptism as he was never a Christian no fruits of the Spirit no Gifts of the Spirit no works. Praise God that we only need to receive the Holy Spirit and can go to heaven with no Purgatory.

[@leonardblignaut665]

How then do you explain these verses? I Thessalonians 4:13-18 The dead in Christ will rise first, then be caught up with the living in the clouds, and meet the Lord in the air Ecclesiastes 9:5 “For the living know that they will die, but the dead know not any thing.” Psalm 13:3 "Look on me and answer, Lord my God. Give light to my eyes, or I will sleep in death" John 11:11-14 11 After he had said this, he went on to tell them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I am going there to wake him up.” Acts 7:60 "And falling to his knees he cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not hold this sin against them.' And when he had said this, he fell asleep" Daniel 12:2 2 Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

[@jonmkl]

The comments section is so aggravating… having to be purified from sinful desires isn’t because “Jesus’s sacrifice wasn’t enough”, it is because _your_ stubborn ass is *still* sinning and *still* desires to sin. If you really don’t sin any more, and have no desire for sin, then congratulations, you’re a saint and won’t need any purification after you die. Either way, that sanctification is by the grace of God, and paid for by Christ on the cross.

[@bigjohnconnect]

Purgatory just makes common sense. I agree

[@ernestogonzalez4776]

To a catholic yes, but not a real Christian

[@grahamsouthwick7908]

So if purgatory exists, how do you explain the thief on the cross?

[@oldmovieman7550]

I’m a Protestant, but it strikes me that the idea of purgatory is not too different from the idea of glorification. Both posit a further purification after death.

[@joshuatcharles]

It’s not the same, but you are right to note that there is a difference between where we are when we die, versus where we are when we are glorified. That gap is bridged somehow.

[@christianemutter2952]

@@joshuatcharles What please is 'somehow'???

[@alisterrebelo9013]

​@@christianemutter2952 Catholics explain the "somehow" by the doctrine of Purgatory. What is the Protestant explanation?

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Yet, our wills are frozen at death. So any and all repentance must occur before death.

[@SibleySteve]

There is no one Protestant position. Newer theologians are advocating the Isaianic hope for new creation in the phrase “life after life after death” (NT Wright). The idea of going to sky heaven at death is now considered more Plato than Jesus, more Plutarch than Peter, more Plotinus than Paul. In other words, let’s not trash this world and escape unto the sky, as the ancient gnostics would do, but let us rejoice with Psalm 73 and the prophets that the Return of the King is near, thy kingdom come! As Isaiah says all nations will stream to Zion to pay allegiance to the King. God is enthroned on high, the earth is his foot stool (Psalm 110) and the Lord Jesus Christ is coming to reign supreme, and judge the nations. Where the Roman Catholic Church picked up all this Platonism is sad, probably in middle Platonism, instead of focusing on Scripture from Eden to Chalceden, the Neo-Platonists took over the Latin church root and branch. But we can learn from each other, and worship the Lord.

[@JimForero-com]

You are really REACHING. Luke 12, verse 47 is saying-those that are Believers and sin, will be held to a higher standard, because they should KNOW better and will be condemned more harshly than the non believer. This also applies to Priest, BUT theirs will be more severe, due to the MANY souls they misled into idolatry, along with the numerous other sinful religious rituals the Catholic faith practices. ONLY by the Blood of Jesus is one SAVED and He Paid It In Full. Rapture is coming anytime now… everything is in place!

[@sjb_92]

Amazing! Was so excited for this.

[@billlee2194]

The most convincing parable my Baptist mindset can find no 'anti-Purgatory' explanation for is one Joshua only mentioned in passing. It is found in Matthew 18. At the end of the parable, the Unmerciful Servant goes to jail until he pays the last penny. Next comes, not only clear evidence of the importance God places on forgiveness but, more importantly, what God will actually do to us if we do not forgive. Beginning verse 35, we read Jesus' very words.... "So also my heavenly Father will do to every one of you, if you do not forgive your brother from your heart.” Here Jesus transitions from the parable to reality. Call it what you like, Jesus is saying the Father is going to require some kind of repayment from us in the form of punishment/suffering if we do not forgive others from our heart. This destroys my Baptist thinking that Jesus paid for my sins, past, present and future in full. Neither will my Baptist mindset allow me to view this in earthly terms i.e. the Father will have me placed in an earthly jail because of unforgiveness. No, this has to be a debt payable after physical death. We know the servant is not condemned to hell because the parable only speaks of needing to pay the debt in full until the last penny when the debt is satisfied.

[@rich1147]

Really good but I have one question. It seems to me from the passage that the same servant in 47 is the one referred to in 46? So how do you make that distinction?

[@csavard24]

King David’s son paid with his life for his fathers errors. Could we also be in a position where we have to pay for someone else’s sin? My ex-wife left me one day with my child. She broke our contract with God. From that moment on in my life, to this day, I carried this mortal sin.

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

Absolutely not! Stop listen to those who are completely Biblically illiterate.

[@only1gumpy941]

The Bible says the Body is the soul and it will die. “And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.” ‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2‬:‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬ “ Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.” ‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18‬:‭4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@vatiliaidau1770]

Teaching for doctrines the commandments of men

[@kirkimportante3523]

Jesus taught purgatory explicitly? Where in the Bible just as He clearly taught about he'll in Mk. 9:43-45.

[@jimwesterbeck6636]

Scripture interprets scripture. This teaching is a metaphor of the rewards given to the faithful believers at the return of Christ. The faithful manager is contrasted to the unfaithful servant. The “punishment” cf Jeremiah 34:18, to put him with the unfaithful, a metaphorical reference to what awaits the unbeliever at the return of Christ., cf Luke 13:27-28, Matt. 24:51, Luke 8:13 Matt. 25:29 and Mark 4:24-25.

[@stankomalceski9677]

Catholicism is the only denomination that fits the description of the harlot that rides the beast .As Yashuah said COME OUT OF HER MY BELOVEDS

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@stankomalceski9677 Nice. Maybe you are the harlot, you're the only person who fits the description..

[@FimiliarGalaxy9]

One thing I find silly in these discussions is how almost every single time Christ talks about salvation it’s merited by our deeds.. Of course this is deeply concerning to a sinner like me yet purgatory is prove of an eternally loving father

[@billbrown1353]

“Let’s say a Christian punches a hole in their neighbors wall…they’re going to hell???” THE BLOOD OF JESUS CONTINUALLY CLEANSES FROM ALL SIN. It doesn’t PARTIALLY CLEANSE and leave a little bit for PURGATORY TO FINISH TRHE CLEANSE…

[@walterwong1847]

Is believing in Jesus alone set a believer free completely? Or ask differently, was Jesus's death on the cross sufficient to set any one who believes in Jesus free? Should l doubt if Jesus's death is sufficient to set me free or l have to do something to be free? If l doubt and don't have the absolute certainty kind of faith to believe that Jesus's death is sufficient to cleanse my sin, should l then go back to Judaism to make more animal sacrifices, since a life is for a life? Or is there another way around this? Jesus's isn't sufficient and we don't do animal sacrifice anymore, what can we do that make up the shortfall? I want to know. I don't want to be falling short, if Jesus's death is not absolute, what must l do to enter the kingdom of heaven?

[@cbooth151]

Jesus never taught purgatory. As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture."

[@EBeautiful-f9d]

Can you show me one verse in the Bible that says to Repent of your sins? Did you know God Repented 39 times in the Old Testament? Did God Repent of Sin or does Repent have a different meaning than most think?🤔

[@SolaPastora]

Hebrew “shuv” or “naham.” I guess we’d have to look at the Hebrew for each verse. Doesn’t look like a repentance of sin.

[@Gofaw]

Mark 1:15 and saying, ‘The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God has come near; repent, and believe in the good news.’

[@EBeautiful-f9d]

@ it says Repent, it doesn’t say Repent of your Sins! Keep looking there is 112 verses on Repentance in the Bible!

[@EBeautiful-f9d]

@ The word Repent in the Bible comes from the Greek word Metanoia which means to Change your mind. You can repent about many things,but so many people think it automatically means of Sins. Repentance typically in the New Testament is speaking about Changing your mind about who God is! Repent, change your mind about who you think Jesus Christ is and Believe in Him for the Kingdom of Heaven is at hand!❤️

[@EBeautiful-f9d]

@ darrellperez1029 Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, declares the Lord God. Repent and turn from all your transgressions, lest iniquity be your ruin.” ‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18‬:‭30‬ ‭ESV‬‬ This verse and Ezek 14:6 is talking about Idolatry worship. God is saying Repent, change your mind about worshipping Idols and return back to me in Faith! There is no verse in the Bible that says Repent of your Sins. Many say Repent, technically after you have already sinned you can’t change your mind about it! “and saying, “The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand;repent and believe in the gospel.”” ‭‭Mark‬ ‭1‬:‭15‬ ‭ESV‬‬ Repent and Believe meaning change your mind about who Jesus Christ is and Believe in the Gospel!

[@alfgand8040]

But if you die in a state of grace, can't God make you holy enough for paradise in an instant? I don't understand this purification as "becoming more holy through paying the temporal punishment that justice requires". I understand it as just "paying the debt you owe, and you are as holy as you are". This is the only way indulgences make sense. For example, the hole in the wall. Is he made more holy by repairing the wall? Yes. But what if he is already dead? Can he merit anything? He still has to pay what is due in justice. But someone can pay for him with indulgences. In this way, the purification seems to be more "legal", like the old law purifications. Does this make sense?

[@frederickanderson1860]

John the baptist whom jesus praised highly , daid differently " behold the lamb of God who taketh away the sins of the world" and john said also" l baptise with water he will baptise with holy spirit and 🔥 fire!!. What is the fire???

[@AdolfoGalvarole]

Although many people believe that there is purgatory in the next life, Inwant myself to be sure that when I die, i will go to heaven where our God is living forever and ever. Why should I wait for my nearest relatives and friends to prsy for me thst I be transferred to heaven. How about if all my relatives and friends where no one is alive on earth, than who will pray for me to be transferred to heaven? Of course in my opinion, and the opinion of others too, we don't believe in purgatory.

[@jimwesterbeck6636]

Should you have an open mind to this RC doctrine, I suggest reading the book from Ron Rhodes, “Reasoning from the Scriptures with Catholics”.

[@mikeg.5233]

Egyptian god, Anubis, prepared the soul (Ka) for Purgatory then the soul either want to the underworld or the afterlife, Jesus must have known this.

[@ptk8451]

😊

[@God_gave_His_Son_for_you]

Peter's confession is the rock

[@midnightwatchman1]

No Jesus did teach that. it a rubbish doctrine, made up to make extra money from rich people Scripture cannot be broken Heb 9:27 "Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment, 28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him."

[@sliglusamelius8578]

Luke chapter 12 parable is clear; there are levels of punishment.

[@midnightwatchman1]

@@sliglusamelius8578 where does it teach that? There is a rule for biblical doctrines, using one verse and even worse using a parable when hell was not the point of the parable. Usually, you want to see it somewhere else in scripture. Coming to these radical conclusions based on a parable is rather weak. we do not have enough information for your rings of hell theory here

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@midnightwatchman1 Protestants deny basic things like divorce being a sin, so I'm not surprised that you would pretend to be daft about this parable that describes degrees of punishments.

[@midnightwatchman1]

@@sliglusamelius8578 let for a while stop this catholic/protestant thing. I am not here defend protestantism, I do not care. I am more interested in good doctrine on to righteousness in Jesus Christ. if protestants are doing demonstratable unbiblical behavour let call it out. I believe you will find when the motivation is to rise up christ and not our tribe you find we share more common values.

[@midnightwatchman1]

@@sliglusamelius8578 I would more connect this parable with the processing of God in the life of the believer Heb 12:6 " "The Lord disciplines and corrects those He loves" The punishment is for correction and maturing, Rom 5:3-5 "we also glory in our suffering ...producing character" Proverb 15:10 "Stern discipline awaits anyone to leave the path"

[@keithfox7315]

Cults use vague verses to state that "This is what it definitely means." Then they use definitive verses and say, "This is what it really means." The sufficiency of Christ's blood & His righteousness is not enough? They will fit the Word of God into what they want it to mean. If they are supposed to tell you what it means then who are they accountable to? Certainly not the Word of God! I do not think this man has done enough to convince me of Purgatory.

[@bridget7771]

Can you tell us how much do we have to pay to a priest to get out of purgetory ? And can we pay monthly installments, or by credit card. Or does the Pope do any sort of special offers ?

[@billbrown1353]

“Hole in the wall” - punishment and restitution IS NOT THE SAME THING. Repairing the wall does not provide JUSTICE for breaking it in the first place. “Punishment does not EQUAL cleanse”. It is not obvious that the “beatings” cleanse the soul or conscience. There is a punishment, but how you get from beatings to the place of after death purifying is a serious reach.

[@reylambarte5615]

This video will lead the viewers to hell. Before he explained the parable of Jesus he laid first the phylosophies of this world to prepare the viewers to his twisted interpretation of the parable.

[@OpieApproved]

I’m trying to wrap my mind around this concept in such a way that agrees with everything else in scripture. I’m still not convinced. There are still a lot of holes left in this theology. All the examples you gave are punishment given on this earth, similar to examples given in the new covenant doctrines as well, even including the prophecies in revelation when Christ disciplines the church while they were still in the flesh. Did you consider that all these punishments in the gospel parables are instead referring to when Christ comes to gather the elect pre great tribulation? After all, all these parables are about the master’s return and those that were present at his return. And not all will be caught up with Christ in the air when he returns. Did you consider those that did believe in Christ but didn’t make it due to their deliberate sins, would be left to pay for their sins on this earth. This would agree with the elect mentioned in Matthew 24:22. My number one conflict with the purging of sins by your own penance is this: why did Christ die if you’d be paying for your sins with your own penance? What was his sacrifice for then? If in death, we’d still be sacrificing penance for our sins? And if we still have sins at death what good is the cup of his blood? Are we discounting his grace by believing his death wasn’t enough, that our penance in Sheol is the key to our salvation? All truthfully, even without the deep knowledge of scripture, my heart can’t agree with thinking Christ’s sacrifice wasn’t enough. My heart cannot comprehend it. His death is so we could repent in this world NOT in the next. Those that are with him CANNOT sin (1 John 3:9) and if they sin they have Christ to advocate for them (1 John 2:1) A true Christian will not die having sins to penance for nor need purging. They rest awaiting the first resurrection when they will be with the Lord to rule and judge the rest at the end.

[@xxrgxxcasco]

Nope... Does not work for me. Since Leviticus, they had to use a scapegoat and a sacrificial lamb to be holy again, and any damage done had to be reimbursed with 20% interest. They had to do this while alive. If purgatory was real, they wouldn't need so much sacrifice.

[@clivejames5058]

My question is why does the Orthodox Church (of which Rome was a part for over 1,000 years) not believe in purgatory?. Purgatory only emerged in the Middle Ages and many were shocked and argued against it, in particular St Mark of Ephesus at the Council of Florence in 1439. The Orthodox do pray for the dead, out of love and hope and also believe in the concept of purification. They even talk of Toll Houses but these are ALWAYS allegorical. Therefore, it is not dogma so one is not condemned to hell for not believing in these things, unlike in the Catholic Church.

[@MB-zn9vg]

Read the Early Church writings and you'll see it's not medieval. The EO flip flopped many times about purgatory, which is a state and not a place.

[@SolaPastora]

I think they believe in steps of toll houses. That there are 21 steps on the way up to heaven, and demons wait for them before the first toll house to tempt them one last time. It’s a weird idea we dont see in scripture. Might be one of their saints creating this idea. Mark of Ephesus might believe a toll house is “worldly” as in an actual “place.”

[@clivejames5058]

@@SolaPastora It is talked about but as I mentioned they are allegorical only. The Catholic Church will condemn you to hell if you do not believe in purgatory. That is not the case with allegorical ideas such as toll houses in the Orthodox Church.

[@BensWorkshop]

"Rome" was never a part of the Orthodox Church. The Orthodox Church was part of the Catholic Church but bits left in the 5th century and others went into schism with The Church founded by Jesus in 1054.

[@stephenkneller9318]

“Yet [Trent] says never a word about testimonies of Scripture, because, as Peter a Soto confesses, purgatory cannot be clearly proved from testimonies of Scripture, but this must first be believed without Scripture. Afterword certain passages of Scripture must somehow be twisted to agree with that presumed opinion.” Martin Chemnitz, Examination of the Council of Trent, Part III, Third Topic, Section 1, 1 If Rome’s great doctors of Theology gather at Trent, to create the Roman Church after she walked away from Luther and the Reformers and the Historic Western Catholic Church which was cleansed of Roman heresies with the Gospel, could not discover this verse to justify Roman purgatory, one can only assume you are doing what Chemnitz warned of over four centuries ago.

[@richvestal767]

Places like She'ol-a place where human souls reside after death- or "the Bosom of Abraham" has existed in the Jewish culture as a conception of the afterlife for centuries. These were not hell nor were they heaven but were something else altogether. I have no problem with the idea that God reserves a place for those who have died and are to be saved but are as yet fully purified spiritually from habits that lack the fullness of the kind of charity required to enter into heaven. And that it takes some time for these sinful habits to be purged and the amount of time required depends on the willingness of the soul of that person and their desire to let themselves be purged. And I have no problem with the belief that my prayers to God on their behalf aid those who are being purified and shorten the amout of time and the intensity of the suffering that they're enduring in having those habits removed, like Simon helping Jesus carrying the cross up to Calvary.

[@chibuzorugorji3422]

Shoel or hell and Paradise exist. These are two places for the soul of the departed to await Rapture or final judgement. The souls of the saved when they die go to Paradise where Jesus went with the thief on the cross. But the soul of the sinner or wicked person who refuse to get Salvation now will go to hell or shoel to await final judgement before going to hell fire. Read your bible well

[@ptk8451]

The master appoints him a portion with the unbelivers.That is Clearly hell.Or are you suggesting universal salvation

[@simonwesteng3610]

Yes, Luke 12:47-48 points to `punishment` at the hand of God, upon many souls after this life, for those who fall short, a `punishment` which is certainly not that of eternal damnation in hell! Indeed, I would say that "the one who does not know" speaks of the many who have never even had opportunity to hear the Gospel let alone come to faith. But I point also to Luke 12:58-59 which also points to Purgatory, for Jesus said to the crowd, "...then the officer might throw you into `prison`." But what kind of `prison` is Jesus talking about? Verse 59 tells us: "I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny." Get out of where? Purgatory, of course! For no-one gets out of hell. So since it takes only common sense to understand the merciful doctrine of Purgatory (where so many Christians will indeed go), how is it then that there are no Protestant or Reformed denominations, nor even the Orthodox Church, who have got what it takes to recognise the merciful Mind of God in working out our salvation! ...words fail me!

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

You cannot say that a doctrine which denies the all-sufficiency of Christ's atonement is "biblical". No amount of gaslighting will make a lie the truth. You cannot twist the scriptures into saying that the cross is insufficient. 2 Peter 1:16 - For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.

[@lellachu1682]

Welcome, Gizmo. As you certainly know, Christ's atonement is all-sufficient, which includes purification before entering Heaven Although you continue to cling to the false teachings of modern Protestant tradition, we appreciate your zeal.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@lellachu1682 - This "modern Protestant tradition" is only valid because it is 100% consistent with the teaching of the FOUNDATION of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Chief Cornerstone (See Eph. 2:20). This modernity is more ancient than the false teaching whipped up by 3rd and 4th century pretenders. Look to Greek mythology about their afterlife depictions. You'll find a lot of Catholic theology and philosophy there. It's not of God.

[@lellachu1682]

@@GizmoFromPizmo I'm sure you believe that Protestantism is 100% consistent with the early Church. But that is simply dispelled by the lack of one doctrine. If True, one would expect to find similarities between Greek mythology and Christianity, the True Myth. Christ's Sacrifice being outside of time reverberates through all time and people.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@GizmoFromPizmo Read the Didache. Read early writings of the church fathers. Your heresy didn't arise until the 1800s, even Luther believed much of Catholic doctrine.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@sliglusamelius8578 - You're way off-topic, buddy. You can't defend the theology of the insufficiency of the cross (which is what Purgatory boils down to) so you pull out some second or third century hogwash that has nothing to do with the subject matter? You're not very good at this, are you...? If you could do better, you would but you can't so, bye Felicia.

[@jerrycoronado6887]

Well Joshua you need to reconcile what you think Jesus said with the Epistle to the Hebrews where it is clearly stated “ And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.” There is no second chance. God poured out His grace, mercy and atonement for our sins once, by His precious blood, at the crucifixion of Jesus. He died once then went to Paradise together with the believing criminal crucified with Him.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

Romans 4:6-8 - Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works, 7 Saying, Blessed are they whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered. 8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. A person who believes God is justified. That's the rule. My sins are COVERED. I don't have to pay back people whom I've offended or defrauded. I am COVERED. Catholicism is a corrupt organization bent on castrating the Son of God. Jesus taught that there are degrees of reward and punishment. The just are raised to life. The unjust to everlasting punishment. The key is that both are "everlasting" and "eternal". There is NO TEACHING on "temporary punishment". That doctrine is an extrapolation, not supported by either Christ or the apostles. It's a fantasy, fabricated by later (much later) pretenders. Acts 24:15 - And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust. Mt. 25:46 - And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal. There's no "in between".

[@tomwoehle3519]

All of holy scripture is God breathed.

[@johnu5285]

Apparently Christ's sacrifice is NOT sufficient if purgatory exists, which it doesn't. Neityer were indulgences a way to rid yourself of sin, yet this heresey was taught also. So you probably think Revelations 3:16 should say something more like: "Better to be hot or cold but I'd you are lukewarm....I'll stick you in purgatory for a while". Purgatory is made up Cathloic herrsey that is an insult to Christ's sacrifice. If some people can avoid hell by going to purgatory then hell makes no sense. What, so only felons (sinfully speaking) go to hell, and the ones committing spiritual misdemeanors just go to purgatory for a while? You are stained or you are washed clean, period. This doctrine will be responsible for a lot of people going to hell who knew they should repent but didn't because it preys on our weakness. "Oh well, I guess I'll just have to go to purgatory for a while"

[@donhaddix3770]

quote one verse containing purgatory. you cannot.

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

Of course he cannot. This guy sadly has absolute zero idea of what he is talking about.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

You guys are pathetic. He quoted or cited several parables that show purgatory. Luke chapter 12, for example.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

He literally gave citations on it. Luke chapter 12 for example.

[@henceldeanon9233]

He give a Revelation verse without context... May God, the Father give justice to this guy by making the weak lost...

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@ Luke chapter 12 is not the book of Revelation. Read the parable.

[@MyMachineWorld1990]

The studio looks beautiful!

[@Col-trek]

Luke 12:42-46~ meaning: All the servants guilty of wrongdoing were punished, but the one who had more detailed knowledge of his master’s will was punished more severely. Everyone is accountable to God, but God expects more of those who know more. There is no Purgatory, in Revelation 20:15 And if anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

[@sevenbluestar3194]

You are leading the children of God away from the Truth!

[@dennisharrington6055]

Thanks. I SO want Purgatory to be a place. I imagine I will be sent there to the end of time itself. Only, please, St Peter, let me out every few millennia to pull a hitch in Dog Heaven.

[@guitariste47]

Any who cares about purgatory? We care about going to heaven....you don't think we suffer enough in this life? And what about if the presence of God is enough to make us pure when we are in heaven....anyway i am continuing watching this video. I home there are clear scriptures références

[@danielhaas9469]

The entire video is completely misunderstanding the punishments God inflicts on Israel in the OT. Then worse you push these punishments into the NT fdamework. Read Deuteronomy and this explicitly tells you that if they didnt obey Gods commands and be careful to observe them all of those cuses will befall them. This has nothing to do with purgatory. Then in the NT area we are saved by Christ who paid ALL of our iniquities. Therefore, rejoice and be glad and dont think for a second about us paying something back to God is possible. The Jews didnt, and God destroyed them leaving behind only a remnant. Please i beg and implore you read in CONTEXT what is being communicated.

[@joshuatcharles]

Didn’t address a single thing that was said.

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

Yes, absolutely, this guy has absolute zero idea of what he is talking about. He has only exposed his total Biblical illiteracy, and his unsaved, lost, and deceived condition.

[@henceldeanon9233]

Amen!!! These is poison lazed...

[@AVoiceCryingInTheWildern-vt6ed]

@@henceldeanon9233 ,...The fact is, the whole Godless abomination of catholicism is pure poison.

[@LeonardSohtun]

If we can earn our way to heaven through punishments and purgatory as explained in the video above, it was not necessary for the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to come down from heaven to earth and die on the cross and to rise again. Why did he do that if we can reach heaven through purgatory? This teaching makes Jesus Christ redundant. It is un-Biblical.

[@christophertanoy7261]

NO! Jesus Did not teach purgatory or lightly mention of it. Purification is when you are still alive… HEBREWS 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the Judgment,

[@TheBlinkyImp]

The doctrine of purgatory was dogmatized in conjunction with the doctrine of indulgences. The purpose of it was to emotionally blackmail people into donating to the church. Most unique Catholic dogmas make sense when you understand their purpose in buttressing the worldly power of Rome.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Nonsense. Christians are not liars. If YOU are Christian, the religion is false.

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

Correct! The whole 100% antigod, antibible, antichrist abomination of catholicism is all a 100% fake manmade fraud to extract money from the ignorant.

[@exposingfakechristianity5556]

@@HAL9000-su1mz ,...The fact is, 99.999% of those who claim to be Christians, are NOT Christians! They are all liars and the lake of fire awaits all those snared into all of the 100% apostate churches.

[@EugeneEmmaKatalemwa]

But when you look deep into history, the abuses of indulgences came later on and were later addressed. Abuses of something don't render it entirely evil that is illogical. It's like saying that since the married people commit adultery the whole thing is evil.

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

@@EugeneEmmaKatalemwa Strangely, not one person who 'may have' paid for an indulgence complained about it. Isn't that strange? It's almost like 'someone' was looking for a reason to rebel.

[@LeonardSohtun]

If we can earn our way to heaven through punishments and purgatory, as explained in the video above, it was not necessary for the Son of God, Jesus Christ, to come down from heaven to earth and die on the cross and to rise again. Why did he do that if we can reach heaven through purgatory? This teaching makes Jesus Christ redundant. It is un-Biblical.

[@xkillerghost4649]

Purgatory goes against Jesus’ words on the cross. IT IS FINISHED. The debt has been paid in full. His grace is enough. We receive his grace by our faith in him. Our faith is credited to us as righteousness. Saying we have to endure a temporal punishment after death to be accepted into heaven is saying the work Jesus did on the cross is insufficient to cleanse us. This is wrong.

[@eduardoiiigo3932]

Why do you refer to the definition of Purgatory in the given definition of the Roman Catholic Church if it is truly from the Bible? If you believe in Purgatory that it really comes from the Bible, shouldn't you base what it means on the Bible? You have not even provided specific texts from the Bible to support your explanation and belief that this is indeed a true teaching from the Bible. It turns out that what you say about Purgatory is just a myth and an unbiblical teaching. Teaching that is clearly not guided by the holy spirit from God.

[@philipcorr8225]

Jews believe in purgatory, though they call it something different

[@cbooth151]

The person in the video is a liar. Purgatory is NOT Biblical. As the New Catholic Encyclopedia says: "The Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture."

[@lellachu1682]

Purgatory is as biblical as the Trinity. Do you not believe in the Trinity? Because the doctrine of the Trinity is similarly based on Tradition, not on Scripture.

[@davidcole333]

It's Tradition, not tradition. Learn the difference. If you believe purgatory is not Biblical, you're either 1) not reading the Bible or 2) not understanding the Bible. You will never read the word purgatory in the Bible because the word didn't exist when the scriptures were authored, but the concept is clearly present.

[@cbooth151]

@@davidcole333 "If you believe purgatory is not Biblical, you're either 1) not reading the Bible or 2) not understanding the Bible." When you get older, read the New Catholic Encyclopedia, which says: "The Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture." Did you get that? It's not that the word "purgatory is not in the Bible. Instead, it's the doctrine on purgatory.

[@cbooth151]

@@lellachu1682 "Purgatory is as biblical as the Trinity." Wrong on both counts. Concerning purgatory, the New Catholic Encyclopedia admits: "The Catholic doctrine on purgatory is based on tradition, not on Sacred Scripture." And concerning the trinity, A Catholic Dictionary says: "The formulation ‘One God in three Persons’ was not solidly established, certainly not fully assimilated into Christian life and its profession of faith, prior to the end of the 4th century…. Among the Apostolic Fathers, there had been nothing even remotely approaching such a mentality or perspective.” Clearly, the so-called early church fathers never heard of a trinity.

[@7bag7]

You can’t use the “how a parent disciplines a child” analogy when you believe in an eternal place of torture. Unless you’re a psychopath.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@7bag7 The discipline referred to purgatory. The torment of hell is the torment of separation from God.

[@7bag7]

@ What’s your point exactly? Do you believe in eternal hell or not?

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@7bag7 Yes. What is your point? Do you understand that the analogy about discipline referred to purgatory and not hell?

[@7bag7]

@@sliglusamelius8578 Where in my comment did I mention purgatory?

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@@7bag7 Um, the person who made the video compared disciplining a child to purgatory. See your first post where YOU brought up hell, which is eternal. Purgatory is temporary.

[@James-ll3jb]

This interpretation of the parable is no longer regarded as a biblical proof text for Purgatory by Catholic theologians. Sorry.

[@snickersnee15]

Is that right? What's your source?

[@TheZealotsDen]

Consider visiting us in The Zealots Den

[@ashley10236]

It seem you exegete the process but the term purgatory as a real place it doesnt explain clearly

[@donhaddix3770]

spirit, not soul

[@guitariste47]

Only one scripture given to justify purgatory.....

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

I wonder how many Catholics, burning for eternity in hell, will look up and wonder how much more time they have in this agony before it's over. What if there's a clock on the wall with the second hand clicking but the minute and hour hands never move. "5000 Eons to go before this agony ceases", the authoritative voice cries out, but the clock on the wall shows no time at all has passed yet. Temporal punishment requires the passage of time but in the next realm, there is no such thing as time. Wouldn't that be funny? 😄

[@Verge63]

Wouldn't it be funny if in purgatory since you didn't believe it stuck there to the end of time.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@Verge63 - That would be tragically hilarious! Those who are raised to punishment are there for eternity. I think the Greeks had a place of temporary punishment but I haven't found that myth yet. I'll keep looking. It has something to do with the River Styx.

[@jonmkl]

Why would people who believe they are saved by grace through faith in Jesus Christ burn in hell for all eternity? Isn’t Christ’s sacrifice sufficient for them? Check your heart man, because this is wicked. Jesus didn’t even wish hell on the people that crucified him.

[@GizmoFromPizmo]

@@jonmkl - Do they really believe, tho? I mean the Baptist Church advertises salvation by grace through faith and then teaches that baptism is an unnecessary display you put on for God or for your friends and family or whatever - the important teaching is that baptism is unnecessary. That's not faith, tho, is it? That's UNbelief, right? I mean, we're told over and over in the New Testament that baptism is a necessary part of our salvation. But Baptists don't believe that. "By faith, Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain..." (see Hebrews 11:4) In other words, Abel believed something about what he was doing whereas Cain was just going through the motions for God. That same ethic applies in today's economy. Do Baptists believe they're eating and drinking the body and blood of Jesus when they take communion or is it just a representation of His body and blood? Are they doing it with the scriptural understanding or something Billy Graham taught them? We have two rituals to observe under the New covenant and, strangely, both of them have been sabotaged by mainstream denominations. It's almost like God is telling us something. Salvation by grace through faith means more than saying the Sinner's Prayer (whatever that is). Accepting Christ means accepting Him on HIS terms - not yours. If He would have commanded ten jumping jacks then, brother, you'd better start doing those jumping jacks. The commandment is, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins." Baptists don't baptize for the remission of sins - they baptize BECAUSE THEIR SINS HAVE ALREADY BEEN FORGIVEN. That's putting the cart before the horse. It LOOKS like they're obeying, tho, right? But obedience means "doing it because you BELIEVE what God has said about it" (whatever the "it" is). Baptists actively teach against the reasons for the motions. They are trying to "accept Christ" on their own terms and are rejecting His terms. But they're going through the motions, tho, right? "By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain." Abel BELIEVED GOD while Cain was just putting on a show of religious piety. Don't listen to Billy Graham. Listen to the word of God. Believe what God says about Christ and His kingdom. And when Jesus says, "This is my body" and "This is my blood", be smart and agree with Him. Only a FOOL would disagree with the King.

[@jonmkl]

@@GizmoFromPizmo I was talking about Catholics, friendo

[@richardjackson7887]

Not if you believe the Gospel which you obviously do not,! Seems you do not understand "the wages of sin is death" . Your only interested in your righteousness and not God's. You obviously do not understand the passover!

[@tomm6167]

Up until about 500 A.D., Christian beliefs about hell were reasonable and beautiful. The prevailing view then was that hell (the lake of fire, actually) not only punished but also purified the unrighteous. It was temporary -- each person's finite punishment would fit their finite crimes (sins). (The Greek speaking early church fathers knew that _aionios,_ the Greek word that is mistranslated as "eternal" in most English Bibles, didn't mean "eternal.") Once a person's punishment and purification were complete, he or she would join other saved people on the beautiful new earth described in Revelation 21-22. Everyone would eventually make it there and be blessed, with heavenly rewards varying by person, based on the lives they led. For supporting verses & quotes, see my two replies. Christ came to seek and to save the lost (everybody) (Luke 19:10), and he never fails.

[@tomm6167]

Some verses which promise, imply or strongly suggest eventual universal salvation: "As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive ... God [will] be all in all." (1 Corinthians 15:22,28) "As one trespass [Adam's] led to condemnation for all men, so one act of righteousness [Jesus'] leads to justification and life for all men." (Romans 5:18) "God has committed all to disobedience that he might have mercy on all ... From him and through him and to him are all things." (Romans 11:32,36) "...every knee shall bow to me [God], and every tongue shall confess to God." (Romans 14:11) " ... at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father." (Philippians 2:10-11) "And I [Jesus], when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself." (John 12:32) "And every creature which is in heaven and on earth and under the earth I heard saying, 'Blessing and honor and glory and power be to Him who sits upon the throne and to the Lamb forever.'" (Revelation 5:13) "O you who hear prayer, to you shall all flesh come. When iniquities prevail against me, you atone for our transgressions." (Psalm 65:2-3) "All you have made will praise you, O Lord." (Psalm 145:10a) "I will not contend forever, nor will I always be angry; for 'the spirit would grow faint before me, and the breath of life that I made'." (Isaiah 57:16) "The steadfast love of the Lord never ceases; his mercies never come to an end. ... " (Lamentations 3:22) Also see John 17:2, Romans 5:19-20, 8:19-21, Ephesians 1:10, Philippians 3:21, Colossians 1:20, 1 Timothy 2:3-6, 4:10, 1 Peter 4:6, 1 John 2:2, 4:14, Revelation 15:4, 21:5,24-25, 22:2,17c, Psalm 22:27,29, Isaiah 25:6-8, 45:22-25, Lamentations 3:31, Ezekiel 16:53,55, Malachi 3:2-3, _Hope Beyond Hell_ by Gerry Beauchemin

[@tomm6167]

Most leading early church fathers believed in eventual universal salvation: "Christ saves all men. Some he converts by penalties, others who follow Him of their own will ... that every knee may be bent to Him, of those in heaven, on earth, and under the earth" [Isa. 45:22-23, Rom. 14:11, Phil. 2:10-11, Rev. 5:13] -- *Clement of Alexandria,* _Commentary on 1 John_ "The Word will subdue to himself all rational natures, and will change them into his own perfection." [John 12:32, 1 Cor. 15:22-28, Phil. 3:21] -- *Origen,* _Contra Celsum_ 8:72 "What else does 'until the times of universal restoration' signify to us, if not the aeon to come, in which all beings must receive their perfect restoration?" [Acts 3:21] -- *Eusebius,* leading historian of the early church, _Contra Marcellum __2:4:11_ "A few drops of blood renew the whole world, and become for all men that which rennet is for milk, uniting and drawing us into one." [Col. 1:15-20] -- *Gregory Nazianzus,* _Oration 42_ "Christ captured over again the souls captured by the devil, for that He promised in saying, 'I, if I be lifted up, will draw all men unto Me.'" [John 12:32, 1 Peter 3:19-20, 4:6, Psalm 68:18, Eph. 4:8-10, and maybe Matt. 12:29] -- *Athanasius,* _Expositions on the Psalms, 68.18_ "The peace [coming] from the Lord is coextensive with all time [eternity]. For all things shall be subject to him, and all things shall acknowledge his empire; and when God shall be all in all, those who now excite discords by revolts, having been quite pacified, [all things] shall praise God in peaceful concord." [Psalm 145:10a, 1 Cor. 15:28, Rev. 5:13] -- *Basil,* _Commentary on Isaiah 9:6_ "So the Son of Man came to save that which was lost, i.e., all, for as in Adam all die, so, too, in Christ shall all be made alive." [Luke 19:10, 1 Cor. 15:22] -- *Ambrose,* _Exposition on the Gospel of Luke 15.3_ "For the wicked there are punishments not perpetual, ... but they are to be tormented for a certain brief period, according to the amount of malice in their works. They shall therefore suffer punishment for a short space, but immortal blessedness, having no end, awaits them; ... the penalties to be inflicted for their many and grave crimes are very far surpassed by the magnitude of the mercy to be showed them. The resurrection, therefore, is regarded as a blessing, not only to the good, but also to the evil." [Isa. 57:16], *Diodore,* _De Oecon_ "Some among the wise and learned … have alluded to this in an enigmatic way, by adducing that God is not only just, but also merciful, and that it becomes the One who judges with justice to have sinners suffer in a measure that is proportional to their sins and then make them worthy of blessedness." -- *Theodore,* _Liber Scholiorum, 2:63_ "'All the kings of the earth shall adore him.' Some, indeed, in the present life willingly, but all the rest after the Resurrection; for not yet do we see all things subject to him, but then every knee shall bow to him." [The "kings of the earth" are rebellious unbelievers in Rev. 6:15, 17:2,18, 18:3,9, 19:19,21 ... but check out what happens in Rev. 21:24-27!] -- *Theodoret,* _On Psalm 72:11_ "Death shall come as a visitor to the impious; it will not be perpetual; it will not annihilate them; but will prolong its visit, till the impiety which is in them shall be consumed." [Matt. 5:26] -- *Jerome,* _On Micah 5:8_ "After the complete abolition of sin, praise shall be sung to God; which praise contain (implies) our being incapable of turning to sin ... when every created being shall be harmonized into one choir ... and when, like a cymbal, the reasonable creation, and that which is now severed by sin ... shall pour forth a pleasing strain, due to mutual harmony. Then comes the praise of every spirit for ever abounding with increase unto eternity." [Psalm 150] -- *Gregory of Nyssa,* _On Psalms, Tract 1, ch. 9_ Other church fathers who believed in eventual universal salvation include *Asterius, Bardaisan, Cyril of Alexandria, Didymus the Blind, Dionysius, Ephrem the Syrian, Gennadius, Hilary, John Cassian, John Chrysostom, Marcellus, Maximus the Confessor, Maximus of Turin, Methodius, Paulinus, Proclus, Titus of Basra & Victorinus.* Sources: Thomas Allin, _Christ Triumphant,_ Annotated by Robin Parry edition, chapters 4-5, 1905 & Ilaria Ramelli, _A Larger Hope?, Volume 1: Universal Salvation from Christian Beginnings to Julian of Norwich,_ 2019

[@chibuzorugorji3422]

Mr. Joshua you are only using your own idea to teach "HERESY' . You are quoting Luke 12:41-48, the beating here is not making reference to purgatory, it is all about the living. No parent beats a dead child to correct him, its only the living that take correction. Read your Bible "The dead does not know what is going on among the living. Stop deceiving the people God will not be happy with you if you continue spreading lies . See Hebrews 9:27 man is appointed to die once and after that the judgement. Purification and life of Holiness takes place here not after dead. When you confess your sins and get your salvation John 3:3,7; See John 1:12; you can pray and be sanctified to live a Holy life see John 17:17. No repentance in the grave, See Ecclesiastes 11:3 ... where a tree fall there it shall lie. Repent now before it is too late, when you close your eyes here, you will open it in eternity. Don't let anyone deceive you. Heaven is Real and Hellfire is real.

[@jonmkl]

If purification and a life of holiness takes place here, what happens to you if you die and you’re still not completely holy?

[@kevinmwangi2715]

I dont understand how sin is temprol after death and how one pays for it before going to heaven . Sin is sin and as long as we here through the power of the Holy spirit we are lead into righteousness.I dont believe in purgatory .

[@anthonybevan4482]

Sad, intellectual rubbish! The salvation of Christ is a finished work, paid for by Jesus, it is an unmerited gift from God ( grace) and if we do not accept this gift through repentance while alive, we choose to go to hell. Do we suffer in the here and now due to our sin, sure we do, but there is no way our suffering attones for sin, that is blasphemous,

[@frederickanderson1860]

Sheer human conjecture. Jesus parables and teaching we're for the Jewish people of his day. You can't turn to church traditions and remember your church persecution the people of Israel for centuries. Double standards.

[@ts-900]

Purgatory is obviously made up, it's not in the Holy Bible and Jesus did not teach it. I don't think you did a good job of defining it? It sounds self-contrary. Either Jesus is enough, or He is not. The concept that Jesus isn't quite enough is disturbing. As far as "temporal punishment" is concerned, that's here and now -- not later in some mythical somewhere. I've died, Jesus took me before the Throne of Glory. As far as I know, this was real, not a vision, so not a Near-death Experience (which I classify as a dream and/or vision). It was more real there than here. I was absent from the body, present with the Lord, just as the bible says.

[@joshuatcharles]

Your comment suggests you did not listen to what was said. Indeed, you haven’t responded to a single thing that was said.

[@ts-900]

@@joshuatcharles I listened, sounded made up and was very fuzzy on the definition of Purgatory. And his argument was actually anti-purgatory in nature, proving Jesus didn't preach it, using examples that are all earthly, the here and now. No explanation was given as to how or why we should think it applies to a mythical purgatory, to make it real. But I've died, gone to the Throne of Glory, Jesus took me there. In other words, Why wouldn't I have needed more purging if Jesus wasn't enough, as the concept of Purgatory demands?

[@sliglusamelius8578]

Did you look up the parables he cited? It's plain as day.

[@henceldeanon9233]

This made up purgatory is the primary violation of Jesus Christ declaration: I am the way, the truth and the life. And, no one sees God, the Father except through me...

[@sliglusamelius8578]

@henceldeanon9233 How does it violate that? Jesus judges each of us, and many will be sent to purgatory. Simple as that. The parables cited show that to be consonant with the words of Jesus.

[@lazaruscomeforth7646]

Except the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox don't teach purgatory, so it is clearly not catholic doctrine.

[@joshuatcharles]

That is an inaccurate statement for many reasons. The Eastern Orthodox have believed something very much like Purgatory for a very long time. It is only more recently that some have claimed otherwise. The Oriental Orthodox separated from the Catholic Church roughly 1,500 years ago. That they did so in no way changes the reality of what the Catholic Church teaches. There have been breakaway groups from the beginning. It happened in Scripture, it happened 1,500 years ago, and it happens today. Your statement is akin to saying, “Those family members who broke away from the family don’t agree with the family, therefore that can’t be what the family believes.”

[@HAL9000-su1mz]

Well, the evidence is that THEY separated.

[@lazaruscomeforth7646]

@@HAL9000-su1mz - Not only would that point be irrelevant, even if it were true (because if it were part of the Apostolic Deposit then you would have evidence that they, too, held the doctrine, but they didn't), it is still just the opinion of non-EO and non-OO that "they" left.

[@lazaruscomeforth7646]

@@joshuatcharles- Toll Houses are fundamentally different from Purgatory. This is clear to anyone who has read about Toll Houses and Purgatory for any length of time.

[@masterchief8179]

Try to search online for “The Controversy of Purgatory: Blessed Dositheus and Saint Mark of Ephesus”, “The Dogmatic Character of fhe Confession of Dositheus” and pretty much everything about the Pan-Orthodox Synod of Jerusalem (1672). If you want books, there are plenty too about a post-mortem purification of the souls. Mark of Ephesus first thought of the Latins teaching hell had a purgatorial dimension akin to ‘apokatastasis’, which was even absurd to entertain. Knowing what the Latins always taught, and that it was not Origenism, then he simply objected to the notion of a purgatorial PHYSICAL fire (which is not even part of the Florentine definition or any Catholic proclamation whatsoever, although some Catholic medieval theologians liked to express their notions of fire as a locally-physically represented one). By the way, Gennadios Scholarios, Patriarch of Constantinople from 1454 to 1464, "stated that the trial of the 'tollgates' was, in fact, the Byzantine equivalent of purgatory, minus the fireworks" (Constas, Nicholas (2001). ""To Sleep, Perchance to Dream": The Middle State of Souls in Patristic and Byzantine Literature". Dumbarton Oaks Papers. 55: 91-124. doi:10.2307/1291814. JSTOR 1291814 - via Academia.edu). Curiously enough, ‘apokatastasis’ (universalism) is a HUGE trend inside Eastern Orthodoxy, NOT Catholicism. Even some of the “high profile” theologians who do not embrace a clear cut version of universalism - like Fr. Dumitru Staniloae - seem to think a purification goes, tying it with hell and not an explicit definition of purgatory, which makes it not more palatable, but less: _“This makes it possible for those in hell who are not radically different from those on the lowest levels of paradise to pass over to paradise before the Last Judgment, through the prayers of the saints and those on earth”._ Oriental Orthodoxy has long admitted praying for the dead souls, but does not have a definition of the final purification of the elect who happened to have not achieved perfection in life. They make reference to the mystery of the living faith and the life of the saints and fail to understand either the toll houses or purgatory.

[@kabod8239]

There is no purgatory, period.

[@joshuatcharles]

Not an argument.

[@rukidding-y2c]

You better hope you are wrong.

[@sliglusamelius8578]

Like chapter 12 parable is clear as day.