90% Chance You Guess Wrong: Game Pieces vs Collectibles!

Join us: / discord - The Wonders R&D team has been busy at work understanding the TCG/CCG market.
One of the most polarizing topics in the community is card values versus accessibility. This data is based on 12,000+ TCG/CCG enthusiast survey takers. It comes from what is by far the most robust self-reported research study in the history of the table top industry.
If you would like to discuss access to the enterprise study please contact [e-mail]
Again we gather in discord:
/ discord
X (formerly Twitter):
x.com/wondersotf
News and Updates:
news.wondersccg.com
Participate in the study:
research.blokpax.com/wonders-...

[@mititleguy2761]

Blokpax is absolutely on fire with this. The art and design I have seen is amazing. Very much looking forward to playing and mastering the game!

[@archieVGC_Unite]

Cool that I got to take this survey last week and already am able to see the results in the first place, let alone I can see this amazing analysis! Thank you for the macro, mezzo, and micro perspectives. I am almost exclusively a collector these days now that I’m married and have a child, so I just want to buy and sell cards to still enjoy the cards and strategy/meta, but now from afar

[@rtmclean]

I really enjoy seeing Frenchie build. He's an artist who wears a hard hat to work. He doesn't cut corners. He spares no expense to create, and as this video demonstrates, "garbage in, garbage out." But most importantly, he embraces the community that shares in his vision. Frankly, he encourages developing alongside the consumers of his products. Yes, the team behind WOTF is the "A-Team" w/ years of experience designing, playing, and creating T/CCGs. They'll ensure the gameplay is accessible w/ added layers of depth. It's been a pleasure watching the puzzle pieces come together. And as a collector first, I'm giddy about the long-term collectibility of WOTF. Meanwhile, they just might make me a player after all.

[@kielrodwick7449]

I am very surprised the data skewed towards collectability so much. But I am primarily an MNT player. For me card value is second but I do build pretty decks with full card land artwork. As well as foils, but that's it for value other than key cards I buy for playability first value second. And I hate when I can't justify the purchase of a good card cuz it's just so over priced.

[@jefffrench7925]

I understand the sentiment here. We have some content coming to further unpack the symbiotic relationship between people who are game first and those that are collector first. It’s a really interesting dynamic and one that I’m pretty sure is misunderstood by most (because we as a community just don’t ever have access to this type sentiment data).

[@mikezastrow1851]

Just another innovative and historical hit, an outstanding product by Frenchie and the amazing Blokpax team.

[@alansanders5487]

I've always been a strictly pokemon collector that enjoys playing to pass time. I am very excited to see what comes out of this. I wanna figure out what it's called immediately and hopefully see some card art soon!

[@jefffrench7925]

We will be pulling the curtain back on all that very soon. Thank you so much for just being willing to take a look. We appreciate you.

[@stephenwest2052]

Interesting to see the data for sure. Glad you guys are putting a lot of thought into it.

[@relic_arts3852]

Neat to see the outcome of taking the survey, i collect a handful of different tcg/ccg but not mainly for the price and resale value. I enjoy collecting , i also enjoy playing Pokemon and MTG with friends. Those playa le cards are separate from my collection. Both are fun, healthy ways to focus my OCD productivly. I think it is cool to see collections and individual cards increase in value. If the cards hold no value its harder to enjoy reasoning for building a collection. Thanks for the data and opportunity to see the results!

[@triperiperanger7319]

First survey I've ever taken that I actually get to see a review done over it. Thank you!!!

[@NayBel]

Wow! I'm blown away by these results! 🎉 Thanks guys! This is some great research! 😮😅

[@JMilles-yq4px]

This was super interesting! Really excited to see this built and then of course to play the game!

[@kidFBL-yy4ww]

Beyond excited to see and play this! Impatiently waiting!

[@darkhorsebreaks]

I love the peek behind the research curtain, thank you.

[@cameronbell5454]

Yay thank you for inviting me to check this out

[@Eadams111906]

I appreciate being able to see the results. Most surveys take your info, and you never know if it's even useful.

[@jefffrench7925]

Thank you for giving your opinions and taking the time to watch. We will be unpacking more and we hope you enjoy it.

[@sethh7526]

So excited about this journey

[@rhammel547]

Going to be interesting to see how the TCG community reacts to this data

[@r3zaful]

I shared this in sea and tw group and people are laughing, You know why? Make an unique game with actual original artwork first than shit talking about other tcg, you know why dragonmaid laundry is popular despite its not a meta card in ygo? Go figure it out

[@madden90025]

I’m a game designer so I always appreciate user data. Thank you for sharing this info. I’m curious though, did everyone have the same advertisement to take the survey? As a collector I was enticed by free valuable cards. Do you think that would have an impact on the demographic that happened to fill out the survey?

[@jefffrench7925]

Covered this in another one below. We have methodologies to balance sample. For example. We know market share by ccg. We balance the incentives across the majors and then check to be sure the smaller franchises are represented at something close to their market share. Flesh and blood as an example. We also have ways to make sure people aren’t Christmas treeing the data. We look for that. It’s super easy to detect and reject. We also look at completion times. All sorts of things. Also people would probably be surprised at how honest the human brain wants to be in general. Fake answers are not nearly the issue in research that people expect especially when you start talking a 15,000 sample size. But then like where we dig into each cross tab (only people that list their favorite game as MTG for example) that’s where the data starts to get really powerful. I’m very confident in the data. Been doing it a long time for all sorts of incredibly complex business problems that make CCG sampling child’s play. Will our game be amazing? We think so. I definitely hope so. But is the data here rock solid and reliable. 100% I have zero doubt. Thanks for watching. We will be unlocking more to come. And we will also share the full report at Q end and then we will run it back for Q2 to begin trending the data. I hope you vibe with what we are building. We’d love to see you in WOTF. 🫡

[@DarrenCurtisII]

I'm a game designer too. Nice to meet another game designer on KZbin.

[@sonnythompson5402]

Wow, just wow! So excited to play!! I appreciate the DEPTH of the building and creating lore and gameplay!

[@silaswendt1867]

Nice! Data’s interesting to know. I’m sure what you’re building will be quality! As a vintage Pokémon collector, I’d love to get on the first take 🤙🏼 keep up the good work 🤘🏼

[@jefffrench7925]

Thank you. We are gonna give it our best dang effort. 🫡

[@WolfsDomain]

I believe now 35% - 47% playing , other percentage is split between Collector's & Player's and just Collector's. But i believe percentage is changing in near future.

[@cameronbell5454]

Yep I play and collect air high five

[@MarcVenekamp]

Can’t wait to see the final cards

[@Mukgolfer22]

This will be awesome! Can’t wait

[@jeffreyudelhofen504]

Awesome collective data and insights on everything with CCG and TCG.

[@heffery86]

Love the approach you’re taking with Wonders!

[@ericslonaker9224]

Really interesting to see the data in the survey to be so opposite of that game piece community you see so vocal online.

[@reconcrazy6]

Really enjoyed the information. My only caveat, as an MTG player since Alpha/Beta/Antiquities/Legends is: 1. I would love to see the reserve list disappear for a short time. 2. Reprint those cards in a set and limit the quantities 3. Make it different artwork so that it differentiates immensely. 4. Allow the newer generations playing to obtain some of the heftier cards that cost a ton $$$ for them to enjoy. 5. It will give newer generations different ideas on how to use those cards and create amazing combos and infinite loops. 6. It would be amazing for me to see an 11yr old or 21 yr old come to a tournament and utterly surprise a 30-50 yr old who’s been playing since ‘93 with new ideas, uses, and combos with some of the older generation cards.

[@jefffrench7925]

There are many cards I want from that era (in a high grade) that I haven’t found. ABU is what I collect personally. I definitely don’t want that but I do understand the take. Personally I think it would be nice if the people buying a new set (those younger folks that weren’t there for ABU) can have the same opportunity in new product that is their own and they can own it with confidence. Thats essentially the core of what we hope to do. And again. Gameplay is critical. Our team has built a totally unique game that is getting awesome feedback in play testing. We have our largest event so far this coming Sunday. I know it won’t please everyone…nothing does…but I’m confident it’s a good game. I just want to be sure it also has a good and trusted collectibility framework. Thanks for the comment and giving the video a watch 🫡

[@triperiperanger7319]

They did do magic 30th

[@reconcrazy6]

@@triperiperanger7319: but not tournament legal.

[@hyrulegend9786]

This was Very interesting breakdown! 🤔

[@eco8gator]

I'd love to know the rough ranges each group spent on cards vs folks that value collecting. If I had to guess game piece folks are the lowest spenders. I'd adjust the data to money spent on average.

[@jefffrench7925]

Your assumption is safe.

[@Rainman0G]

I wonder if there is a way for you to know what percent of people just randomly selected answers and by doing so altered the data.

[@jefffrench7925]

Yes. There are ways to do that. It’s very easy to detect Christmas treeing in research studies (random box checking).

[@WolfsDomain]

One other thing like any Sports , Collectors (like Dessert Storm , Movie , Cabbage Patch , ect. ) , CCG's card's ECT. Your Strongest anything and or Rarest anything is always valuable Duhhhh..... so that said , nice to have in ether of the 3 Groups I say . So what ever they (meaning any Group) complaing about ether Group or Group's are superficial as the old saying goes because it takes all 3 I believe to keep any Card Collector Card's alive in the inevitable stream of time. Like arguing about Chicken 🐔 or the Egg 🥚 issue no matter what you need both aka Symbonic can't have 1 with out the other. Hay folks that's the Ying & the Yang of it all I believe personally. "MAY THE CARD'S BE WELL WITH YOU IN WHAT EVER GROUP YOUR IN "!!!!! PEACE✌OUT ALL!!!

[@terramorris5188]

I really like this that I can see my results as well as results of others.

[@WolfsDomain]

Awww man cool stuff coming I'm amazed at art work danggg... my boys loven them also.

[@gregbarnes1624]

Just wanted to know when do they pick the winners of the survey

[@jefffrench7925]

End of Q. So like first week of April (not an April fools joke btw - good luck).

[@kadaan]

I feel like the two questions were very different, and you're trying to portray them as being much closer related than they are. I'm a player first, and want cards to be as cheap as possible so we can have fun, putting me squarely in the "game pieces" category. I *also* think secondary market values are important, and having market value on the more collectible pieces (foils, alternate arts, serialized cards, etc) increasing in value over time is very healthy for the game. I would love to be able to pick up a set of card X for $1 to play, and also happy to pay $100 for a special treatment version of the same card to collect. My biggest fear in the TCG/CCG market is that the manufacturers of these products are making the same overgeneralization that you seem to be making by seeing both the 'normal version for playing' and 'special version for collecting' as being nearly identical and not creating a larger supply of the former because they're afraid it will affect the collectability of the latter.

[@jefffrench7925]

The survey had more depth to help tease out these sentiments. This video was 30 minutes+ at even a high level. There are various techniques to cross check sentiment to be sure you aren’t making a bad conclusion. If there’s anything here I’m confident in, it’s the reliability of this data set. I do appreciate your feedback. I would say that the first thing we have to do when listening to data is to not start with “I am this…and I think this…”. I’m very confident that the market believes that the concept of “these are game pieces” is much more prevalent than it really is. People that spend money on these cards would very much like the cards to hold and grow value.

[@PrestonHicks77]

to be fair though, you stated you are squarely in the game pieces category, and then over generalize, while claiming that others are. do you not see the hypocrisy in that statement?

[@kadaan]

@@PrestonHicks77 Which part did I over generalize? My only point was that I felt like the two graphs made it sound like it's a sliding scale of "Do you want game pieces, or do you want collectibles?" where I believe it's possible to be near both ends of that graph at the same time.

[@alexanderneedham7320]

Thank you. I felt the same way when I took the survey. It left them room to interpret the data the way they wanted.

[@PrestonHicks77]

@@alexanderneedham7320 how exactly would that benefit them?

[@WolfsDomain]

I came in because of advertising on Facebook plus a chance to win Card's lol we won't win lol 😂 but filled out anyway. Hopefully we'll get our hands on some of these new cards. Boy's just are excited. Watched first video on second one now.

[@jefffrench7925]

Never know. Winning a sweeps is a long shot but maybe your lucky time ;). Thanks for watching.

[@michaelfarley7758]

I appreciate the amount of data that went into this but my honest insight is this: How were people inspired or motivated to participate in this survey? I know that I agreed because it was stated there was a giveaway entry associated with a completed survey. Specifically, graded pokemon products. I would classify myself as someone who's interest lies exclusively in the secondary market. This margin (secondary market concerned individuals) of those polled in this survey are also the margin that is most likely to be lured by a potentially high in monetary value reward. So for someone who is gameplay oriented, graded products may not be very interesting to those individuals. Additionally, Yu-gi-oh! and Magic, the Gathering, which hold a comparable if not more impressive percentage of the TCG marketplace, may not be interested in Pokemon products, graded or not. To conclude, I would surmise that the highest percentage of individuals polled, hold that margin because those individuals were the most likely to have an interest in the motivating factors that were associated with completing the survey.

[@jefffrench7925]

It varies. Nobody was offered any points (which converts to dollars albeit small). A nominal sweepstakes (like a booster box or a card etc) that people know is a “long shot” consistently yields a good result. A doctor that is busy and would never give you 10 seconds of her time for some “points” will take a survey if you offer them a small prize that ties to their personal affinity. We cross the data in a number of ways. To look for Christmas treeing (random answers) and such. We monitor completion time and if you get through it too fast we know your response wasn’t thoughtful. I can’t say for sure we will make the best CCG ever…but I’ll put Louddoor research chops up against any company in the industry. This is good data. Well constructed. Well interpreted. Of that I’m sure.

[@jefffrench7925]

Also there were prizes offered across a market cross section relative to the franchise market share. Again. Our game might suck. That’s possible. We don’t think it will. But stranger things have happened. But. The data is solid. I’d bet heavily (if possible to do so) that it’s the most robust and reliable data sample ever taken in the CCG industry.

[@cameronbell5454]

I love all cards the art n how they made yes I got favorite cards it doesn't matter holo or not as long I have the ones I like I'm happy

[@rodrigodiaz9253]

As a kid i watched the show and loved collecting them but i never played with them

[@johnwilliams2385]

I only stopped caring about value when i went to Arena.

[@cameronbell5454]

Thing I think funny everyone said playing pokemon cards is the easiest to me it was the hardest to understand I was able first time playing mtg and beat people every game we did 21 games in class room the guy I borrowed mtg gave me the deck it was extra cards he had never used. And the guy that decided to teach me yugioh I beat him with the random cards I grab out of his box not even looking at cards n we playing and I kick his but with silver fang every time I love wolves and that card save me every time so I got to keep that card cause to him had no value me it was most valuable thing ever cause I won 10 times in row. Pokemon love them but never understood how play not sure why

[@guillermogonzalez4052]

Did a Rottweiler write this? Stay in school kids...

[@bloodsugar9525]

❤❤❤….. let’s get into this

[@johnwilliams2385]

I feel like the mtg gamepiece thing comes from the idea of and opportunity for success since it has high purse tournaments. Kind of like soccer in someways, please dont charge me more for my soccer ball, i need that just to compete. For them, the aim is being able to acquire the necessary material to reach their goal, competing. For them, crazy prices feel like being locked out of using the best strategy because of their income status and i feel that. Is their an intention to push wonders as a competitive game?

[@christopherfisher5344]

Absolutely. We will be having game store play along with sanctioned, larger tournaments

[@johnwilliams2385]

@@christopherfisher5344 will it be affordable to play?

[@thecooldk]

Dang, a review of data collected from an ad containing a survey...is an ad itself! Turns out the whole thing is an ad! Off to drink my Ovaltine!

[@michaelkelsey4918]

yeah, it seems they were attracting mostly collectors with the questions they asked (not to mention the unreliability of voluntary surveys)

[@tylerfox420_]

Wasn’t there supposed to be a winner and get a prize? Who was the winner

[@christopherfisher5344]

The winner draw is in the beginning of April as the survey is still open. Good luck!

[@DrPineapplez]

🔥 🔥

[@cameronbell5454]

To me value don't matter much I have sold 50 dollar slabs only for 10 dollars before I see it as some one is happy to get it I'm like ok I'll make the deal

[@jefffrench7925]

If you come into wonders I’ll trade with you ;) Just kidding. I feel you. At times the value to me is more or less than the value to someone else and a deal I feel good about would look lopsided to an outsider.

[@cameronbell5454]

@jefffrench7925 right now on my ebay I'm selling all cards I got n with every purchase get free few mystery cards. Even the games come with cards. Lol I just sold a 50 dollar card for 7 dollars n they got 6 mystery cards with

[@FearOgre]

No links to the actual data....interesting

[@jefffrench7925]

The data released is covered in the video. We will release a more comprehensive report at the end of the Q. But given the passive aggressive nature of your comment I suspect that won’t matter.

[@r3zaful]

​@@jefffrench7925if you look at the data right, look at Pokémon and yugioh sales in japan hell let's just try add duel master to the mix or even wixos, in Pokémon, most of the sales this year came from boxes with meta relevancy cards, yugioh are gigaboosted by master duel and also meta relevant boxes like the guren lagan archetype and snake eyes, so what is the point? you don't boost your box sales by making cards artificially rare, you boost your sales by selling good cards, the scarcity will naturally happen if everyone and their mom wants to play it, then reprint and you sell more boxes. Also don't say to me that I don't have data, you can just type the state of Japan tcg in KZbin and you will have an actual discussion about it, explain which booster are sold more etc, I can make sure this is also the same in the west.

[@RandalArmstrong77]

Please do giveaways live so most of us know your legit.

[@jessicachavezlovingchange911]

We need help with inflation for SSI, SSDI And beneficiaries

[@Fru1tpunch]

hope my data shows bandai is incompetent lol

[@triperiperanger7319]

I've never met a mtg player say i have a lot of decks that im glad I can't sell for $1.00.

[@jefffrench7925]

Haha. I feel you. But yet there are very loud people on the internet that say otherwise. Eventually they will come to these comments. The reasons they aren’t here in the first 1000 or so views is because we used the research replies not to send it to them. Their comments cross lines and frankly they can go enjoy other stuff. Had some people on Twitter say that I should be killed for my opinion on making cards collectible (I’m dead serious - they wished me dead - like multiple people. All because I believe a product marketed as a collectible should be honored as such by the company that sells it to us.)

[@rickallen1297]

That data does not surprise me at all.

[@guillermogonzalez4052]

Man its gonna be hilarious when it flops. Ill be back