How I do a Pan Liner --- OLD SCHOOL Tile Shower Build 2024 Episode 1

[@rodrigorodriguez7410]

I Always do hot mop and never had an issue. I think its the best way to go.

[@johnprice5306]

Thanks for the videos. This one especially is so on point! On my second shower, so this was awesome to watch for a refresher. Staples seem to be the way to go. Much easier than roofing nails, as that's what I did for the first one. Keep up the great work!

[@videsos4040]

Old school but is still probably the best way to do it. I have seen some showers leaking when they use other methods

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Then they were done wrong

[@itomba]

@@Davidlovesmusic311Out west they still do the hot tar method and I know some folks from California and their showers are perfectly fine.

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

I've never had one leak and the contractor buys all the materials so I don't have to do anything except supply in my labor

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

If they leak they were done incorrectly.

[@miguelescorza6785]

Oh man, this brings back memories. This is the method I learned 10 years ago back in the union we’ve come along way

[@renderuthis]

in the old days some old guy told me how he did it 1980. I think it had 20 layers, I could not remember seconds after he told me, motor, sand, felt, tar, sand, felt tar, motor or something, thinset, tile, grout.

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Even StarrTile watches. Good to have all the input in one place. 👍 😊 Both are successful. 😊😊😊😊

[@craigroberts3982]

preslope is everything when it comes to making a mud base work. I like the shower drain flush with the subfloor and I use a 2x4 on edge for the curb to obtain a narrower curb. Taller than stacking 2x4s flat and so much narrower. Installing the pan liner used to be a plumber's job. It is a plumbing fixture after all. I'd like to know when it became the tile setter's problem. The old timers I worked around always used copper nails to secure them. Now we are the ones doing the water test and making sure it does not leak.

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Why not put some lathe down, pour pan and then Kerdy cloth over when dry. Then use the inside outside corner and Kerby tape. Never had a leak

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Noone wants cement board where I reside. Unless Verdi cloth over cement board and pan. Then the county has to pass your 24 hour water test

[@Bbbbbbbbbbb-f1w]

NO PRESLOPE IS NEEDED! If the subfloor is leveled you don’t need a preslope. Also, if the subfloor is not leveled, but you apply a liquid waterproof on top of the mud all the way to the sides of the drain, you don’t need a preslope (because it will then basically be a “sealed system”) and the rubber liner will simply serve as a backup. The logic is that the mud will be completely encased in the rubber liner, so there won’t be any voids where a puddle of water could form and the mud acts like a sponge by its nature, until and, if ever, it gets 100% saturated, in which case the water at the bottom will escape through the drain weep holes and any leftover water will evaporate and escape via the same way it got there. The water will evaporate whenever the shower isn’t being used.

[@RafaelTileWorks]

One of the main reasons I stopped doing pan liner was because of the extra day for the pre-slope. I have no clue why I never heard of, or used a ultra fast set mortar. I might do away with Schluter / other methods and go back to float and liner. I am also in the NorthCal by the way, hello neighbor. With how out of plane and bad old / mid town Sac houses are, the float is looking really appealing again. The fast set mortar is a great tip to save time. Love these videos. Your channel inspired me to make my own as a goof / hobby and I can see why you have so much content. It is fun to share your work. Your content is on another level though. And your trade work is also spectacular, dam near perfect every time!

[@C2IT678]

This to me is the best tested and true way of doing them

[@stucorbett7905]

We used to call Dave Sewell at Sierra Shower Pan. Hot mop with pre slope and water test. Best money spent. Then daypack deck mud.

[@keghamstepanian]

Cant wait to see the next steps.

[@FIREGURU]

*Tip- Measure and pre-fold your membrane. It makes it much easier to handle it.

[@racif]

Glad you came back to old school for a day. To be honest I was losing interest in your new installs. I don't trust any of the new "systems". Failures are everywhere, while a well-done old-school install will last a century. I had a 100-year-old house with an old mortar bed and it never failed. A remodel revealed it was in perfect like-new shape. I regretted even touching it.

[@TileCoach]

Thanks. It definitely felt good to do it. Stay tuned for the next videos coming up. Floating the pan, flaoting the walls, setting the tile, and grouting. I got hours of content coming up from this shower.

[@stephensatmary5851]

Used to do these a while back, never caulked the drain flange but it makes sense, cheap security. I am thinking of using a stock tank as a shower pan in my cabin with one of those hoop curtains for an inexpensive shower. I have been holding on to a roll of pan liner since 2008! Everyone is using Schluter nowadays.

[@gregcope9262]

Great video! You make it look easy. I appreciate your time and hard work in the creation of this instructional video.

[@dallas2094]

Old skool perfection

[@mattmason7554]

Yes yes yes. No issues down the road

[@imnotwatching1]

Being a plumber using a heat gun or leaving the liner in the florida sun for a few makes it alot more flexible for tighter folds and easier to apply.

[@user-pwfus]

I still say this is the best and easiest way to build a shower and never leaks if done correct.

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

If I pour a pan with deck mud i kirdi cloth over it and tape it. Never had a leak

[@user-pwfus]

@@Davidlovesmusic311 How many years has it been there? Old school liner lasts 15 to 20 years easily.

[@wally1957]

I had a plastic shower pan crack in my RV this last week. The prices for pan replacements was outrageous so I decided to repair mine. I squirt spray foam through a big hole that I made to stabilize the base so that it won't ever crack again. I Filled hole with Fiberall and then I Fiber-glassed the entire pan and then Epoxied not only the pan but the entire shower, walls and all. I added multiple color pigments to the epoxy. It looks like a water fall with multiple colors streaming down the walls. It looks cool. I then epoxied the bathroom sink and counter with mix of pigments, carbon and sapphire blue. I got carried away but it is fun at age 66.

[@MsPinkyism]

Omg do u have pics of this...I'm stuck doing my own bathroom and would love to see your process or finished work...

[@wally1957]

@@MsPinkyism I have pics but this YT format does not allow me to post them in this comment section. Just research YT video's on Epoxy counters.

[@delmarcarr6498]

I prefer schluters system but sometimes you gotta do it old fashion thanks for the video a tip for the glue hit it real quick with a heat gun and it’ll harden quickly

[@Kmher90]

Nice seeing you going back to mud again, which do you prefer mud or prefab foam?

[@NoHOARDERchicks]

The pan liner is the only method i see never have an issue if installed correctly. Youve demo'd countless showers made with other material, but what about the Oatey perfect slope? Is there anything wrong with using it? Although its expensive, it saves soo much time. You also dont save much in mud bed cost either.

[@GGstorytimes]

There is a actual official video from Otaley about how to install PVC linear, I think it’s very helpful and step by step.

[@Apexjasonmorganllc]

Yes this is the method I love! Great video Isaac!

[@ronland1821]

Yes other than the wood curb needs to go.

[@Apexjasonmorganllc]

@@ronland1821 i don’t personally ever use wood in my curbs. I always do Mud curbs. Tile coach is an awesome installer so I would trust his install though.

[@ronland1821]

@@Apexjasonmorganllc Right I’ve never used wood in 25 years.

[@jessematheny3636]

where are you from? so cal wood and hotmop is all I see and do myself@@ronland1821

[@ronland1821]

@@jessematheny3636 Utah

[@terryjanssen316]

Great work!

[@radamest2]

I learned. Thank you!

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Stapling is a good tip. More fixings go in when the wall board is installed.

[@anthonyhernandez9500]

Hey im working on a project and I was wondering if I alreadt installed my backer can I still put the pvc liner on top of the backerboard and staple is or should just use the adhesive the use to keep it from feeling off. Im trying to avoid using a kerdi or other membranes beacause theyre delicate and its cheaper. I thought about using redgard but its not cheap either for the size of my shower.

[@AlejandroGomez-to6fs]

Nice video my friend I'm learning something good for you thanks

[@marcusdollard7330]

Retired now most of my work was done in New York City lead pan only did a couple years in the bay area never used wood for a curb. Thought this was old-school you guys didn’t do this anymore all these new fangled systems. I assume you like the labor but you’ve reached the point where you need to just expedite chip in buddy.

[@kirtheggen1742]

I got to thinking you tile coach and tile star are both really good. I got an idea from watching both of you but I know tile coach likes to experiment. He is my idea how about a mortar base pre slope a liner and then a slop with modified acrylic liquid added to the 4:1 mix and then seal every thing with hydro ban and chalk the drain. The ultimate 1000 year shower. Tile coach you are great I have learned so much. How much space when tiling to corners on shower on12/24 1/8 1/4 1/16 horizontal.

[@MrWetstone]

Nice job

[@macjusss]

Why or when would you decide to go with this pan liner than the presloped schluter pan/ hot mop/etc?

[@RawTakes]

Cmon Zakk! 😂 Killin the ol coach lol.

[@itomba]

My dad used to tell the story about the old days when walls were floated if the helper wasn’t mixing the mud the way the installer liked it they would dump it out the window and make him remix.

[@stevefrey2990]

Excellent explanation, thanks so much. Any worry about the pre slope cracking at the drain because it's only 1/4 inch thick?

[@TileCoach]

Not at all. It has a 2” bed of mortar above it.

[@spikeklein2196]

Hey Tile Folk. Just wondering why hard water deposits don't clog up those weep holes? Even our toilet bowls stack up with that garbage (northern Cali). Thanks to Tile Coach. Love this channel.

[@shawncockrell6007]

Excellent tutorial ...... I get the new methods are time/ skilled labor savers, but that is cheap and bullet proof.

[@reconone3574]

What other methods do y’all recommend instead of the pvc membrane for a first time DIY?

[@westcottautodetailing6988]

How are the bolts waterproofed? Couldn't water leak into the holes that the bolts made through the liner?

[@r3jk8]

Just a regular homeowner here. No interest at all in doing any of this work but I find it interesting to watch.

[@theige01]

Thanks for the lesson ! If for the wall, you're using a backer board (foam, hardi,...), not floated mortar, I assume you overlap the wall board down over the membrane? and I assume you shim out the studs to the thickness of the folded membrane corners before installing the wallboard?

[@Gymjb5]

Can you do mud bed for the first layer like the one you use on the second video or you need to use mortar mix ? And thanks 🙏

[@mjonesftwtx]

What’s funny is the first mix seemed to be harder to move but easier to form without going over it time and time again because it was mixed to watery lol. 😂 anyway good stuff learned some more thanks

[@gizmobently]

Great video. One question I have. Is the shower subfloor 7” deeper than the bath floor? Would you be able to do this same process if the shower floor was not deeper?

[@xuser9980]

8:28 I was just getting ready to write a comment about whether or not you'd recommend covering the drain hole for less experienced folks here. 😅

[@mikemcgrathsr734]

Where the wall tile and floor tile met using this method, do you need to grout and the caulk, or is grout sufficient?

[@miker8687]

Question. I’m in the process of doing a shower and I installed my drain yesterday, I concreted 2” plumbing into the ground since this was a bathtub before it’s a shower now. I accidentally concreted the plumbing in, without it being level. It’s not off much but it is off some. If I put the second piece of the drain, rhe part that clips into my bolts, can I stick some abs plastic under one side that way I can unevenly tighten down the drain and in the process fix what is unlevel? By doing this I’d imagine it would work and would just make very large areas for water to get in near the weebles.

[@Corrvision]

The Method, I was taught 30 years ago, it works.

[@chinaskibukowski7747]

Still the best shower pan method by a country mile. Not a fan of the wood curb though. Would probably float that out or use bricks instead.

[@diabolic-i4s]

why? so the potential leak stays hidden longer? everything else is made out of wood anyway

[@dantemariscal8679]

If you’ve seen his other videos he shows how to float the curb with mortar instead of screwing in nails into cement board through the liner. Dude knows his stuff and drops priceless information

[@davidwelsh829]

Bull, ive torn out dozens of curbs that had wood in them, some less than a year old. Never use wood in a wet area. Ftw i started doing tile in 1975.

[@Flynnasquez]

U and ur method is y I have work

[@itomba]

@@davidwelsh829So, no wood subfloor or studs? If the pan is installed correctly and you wire ( with the wire secured by the mud bed inside the shower and nailed at the bottom of the exterior of the curb ) and float the curb there is no reason for it to fail. My dad was a tile guy since the 40s , he taught me, and I just retired several years ago and we did thousands this way with no issues. The only issue they had in the past was a failure of the lead pan around the drain.

[@ppainterco]

@TileCoach In prior videos, you didn't like using wood for curbing. What's changed? Is it that you're using the Oatey liner to cover it?

[@TileCoach]

Yes, when its a pan liner and mud curb its ok as long as there is a capillary break betweeen the pan and the curb.

[@Spcampbell193]

Shower liners if done right will always be superior

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Compared to what?

[@Spcampbell193]

@@Davidlovesmusic311 thinset applied membranes, brush on water proofing, foam preslopes, any other shower base products

[@ronland1821]

Exactly 👍

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

Old school way. How I learned 25 years ago, but haves not used a bladder in several years

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

The problem with Schlumberger pans is when sub floor isn't level, especially the perimeter. Pouring/ dry packing deck mud gives you the field to make your slope and perimeter good. Simple

[@Davidlovesmusic311]

That's when we pour a pan, and kerdi cloth over it.

[@TR4Ajim]

Isaac, what circumstances would make you choose using a mud bed/wood curb/liner vs a premade pan like RediTile?

[@TileCoach]

The GC prepared the shower for this method.

[@reconone3574]

My shower is 7’ long. I am installing a linear drain in the front. Question is-would it be okay to have one continuous slope to the drain and not slope the floor away from the side walls? I will slope the floor away from the front wall to the drain but what do you guys think about not sloping the floor at the sidewalls, just one slope for the 7’ pan?

[@Bbbbbbbbbbb-f1w]

NO PRESLOPE IS NEEDED! If the subfloor is leveled you don’t need a preslope. Also, if the subfloor is not leveled, but you apply a liquid waterproof on top of the mud all the way to the sides of the drain, you don’t need a preslope (because it will then basically be a “sealed system”) and the rubber liner will simply serve as a backup. The logic is that the mud will be completely encased in the rubber liner, so there won’t be any voids where a puddle of water could form and the mud acts like a sponge by its nature, until and, if ever, it gets 100% saturated, in which case the water at the bottom will escape through the drain weep holes and any leftover water will evaporate and escape via the same way it got there. The water will evaporate whenever the shower isn’t being used.

[@adamnorthville5636]

Thanks

[@ErickG.I]

Do I have to put paper if I’m doing this pre slope in my basement floor?

[@Bushwacked487]

Newbie question: why wouldnt you install the side boards afterwards so it could better overlap over the rubber membrane?

[@finishfloorsllc.228]

How are you gonna attach the remaining wall board at the bottom?🤔

[@tommywalker5348]

Float! no board 🤟

[@RaulCojocariu]

Great work like always, but the question why this antic method i did these 15 years ago?

[@ronland1821]

It’s still the best method to date period 👊

[@rugerdogg5316]

Can I make my curb out of exterior foam board and liquid nail it to a concrete floor

[@declanmanning4264]

Love all the videos but why so many different ways. The preformed foam bases seem so much easier??

[@poker4080]

question, he does a wet bed first then a pan liner then another wet bed?

[@michaelrendon3137]

When would you find it necessary to waterproof the preslope with something such as redgard, before installing the rubber liner? I have noticed that some waterproof the preslope and some do not.

[@contemplate-Matt.G]

It's much better to water proof the mud once it's dry and use alkaline resistant mesh in the corners. Three thin coats of Red Gard on that mud and the vinyl will be a backup but will never see water

[@wolverinegnr]

Hi Issac! Do you still recommend the Flo fx drain as the number 1 option? Thanks

[@vickimelior1368]

QUESTION: would you use the same steps and application on a concrete floor? The floor was poured and sloped at the time of pouring.

[@GenXFarmer77]

No the concrete he put down first is a sub floor for upstairs bathrooms so that part isn't necessary on concrete. But everything after that yes.

[@jagsingh507]

Can I put black tar paper on top of plywood and the put mortar mix. Do I use mash wire on the mortar mix

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Flexible PVC sheet can strech 300% before tearing and so if any movement in the structure waterproofing membrane can remain sealed.

[@AQUARIUMFREAK123]

Would this OATEY pan liner and glue be AQUARIUM SAFE ? can i make an aquarium seal out of these materials seen here ?

[@xiaoweiwu9788]

How to tile the liner area at the bottom of wall? Should I fill with thinset? Or just leave it blank?

[@jonport_]

Guilty on the curb Conner😐 ive learn since. Live and learn.

[@derrickinscoe1554]

Can you use deck mud (4to1 or 5to1 ratio) for your preslope as well?

[@gaknskk]

How much water actually seeps through the tile,grout and pan to get to the rubber liner ?

[@ohokayofficial]

Are there occasions where you want the prefloat and pan liner installed before the Board is prepped on the wall? Awesome video by the way!!! Love X15, but not the smell 😭😂

[@saeedmuhammad8053]

Damn good job bro.

[@vegitoblue7908]

so,after the membrane goes the tile on top?? or does it need another concrete later?

[@anydaywithjim4107]

Another layer of concrete 1 1/4" to 1 1/2" thick evenly on top of the liner. Then tile on top of that.

[@Jerry0291er]

Do you answer any of the questions in your comments. I’m redoing my bathroom and these are good questions.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Nice vid. Y the pan liner and not the foam pan??

[@tretatt]

What do you fill the 7” of the wall with at the bottom?

[@robertramirez7228]

On a previous video you said the pan liner should be at least 3 inches above the curb…?

[@DZ-ib1gz]

How does a person set a linear shower drain in a mortar bed?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

Flexible 1mm PVC sheet ????? Is that the material in your liner ?? Australia does not have your system, but I can get the flexible PVC and with a heat gun turn the liner down the drain hole after tililng.

[@chadharrigan68]

GC wants old school 30/40 ml pan liner, but only leaves 7" from deck. Min code at its finest. Looks like Multifamily? Pre pitch/slope should be just as smooth & accurate as the top layer. Prepitch/slope done sloppy doesn't allow the water to weep as fast. I get it if the GC is supplying materials. When using topical elastomeric waterproofing products on top of your prepitch/slope. It's really important that the product gets its final coat with a brush & brushed the same direction of the pitch/slope to the FHA HUB & not rolled finished. Enjoy your videos. Go Carmichael, Pasadena Elementary, Churchill Jr.High(Home of the 1988 National spelling bee champion) & Mira Loma HS.....

[@ereckit1972]

Paper / Mud / Waterproof/ The right thinset and grout/ Good tile work = NO PRESLOP NEEDED 27 years of high end work and not one preslop.

[@Cam-wi3tp]

Sorry but i'm confused, i thought the drypack went in the liner not under it, do you do another preslope on top, sandwiching the liner in between?

[@rowdynoe9595]

This is the pre-slope, which gives a slope to the pan liner itself so water does not pool at the bottom of the mud bed that is placed on top of the liner

[@Cam-wi3tp]

@@rowdynoe9595 Well i sure do appreciate your response and this video from tile coach! From videos i've watched, everyone seems to be throwing liner over the floor, putting in oaty liner then preslope inside the liner. I got away from youtube and did some reading and now i understand this system and learned about the mold issues. Thank you both so much

[@jeffreyplumber1975]

they call this pre slope pre sloped befor the liner orhot mop goes down you need to look at the drain closely or watch more videos and a light bulb will click on no offence but its very simple yet confuses most everyone in the begining

[@limamohanty1083]

Hi Isaac, I need your help. It’s very urgent. I live in Boston and I am doing my new bath on second floor. I had hired two guys to do pre slope. Each of them have screwed up the slope and both time I demolished the whole structure.

[@limamohanty1083]

I want to show you the picture of my pre slope where drain flange is really down than the slope. If I put the liner on top of it then it won’t be on the same level. Can you please suggest me. I really want to talk to you in person

[@lw3764]

One thing that's really bugging me: all of these boards like hardibacker and concrete board, so many people think they're waterproof when over and over I've seen people say they're not and that you still have to waterproof them with some kind of membrane. Then why even use "waterproof" boards instead of drywall? It doesn't make sense to use drywall either, I know that, but to me it just seems like no matter what you put up you'll still have to slather it with red guard or flex seal or whatever. I have a tile tub surround that seems to be failing, the wall next to the tub is getting damp, and I'm probably going to replace with a basic btch fiberglass tub and surround because it just seems too expensive and complicated to get the tile right (our bathroom was newly remodeled before we moved in).

[@beanieweenie9543]

How does the method compare to other methods in cost?

[@stephenbrickwood1602]

7 inches gap, a good fact to know. 👍 😊😊😊😊

[@jt5747]

Would it be beneficial to add a bead of caulk around the underside edge of the drain before bolting it down?

[@stephenhornsby9078]

Nope will plug the weep holes

[@mirena2]

Can you use flo fx with pan liner?

[@SergeantV-n9h]

Will you buy cement on top of this resin?

[@1971VoiceoftheMummy]

nice!

[@vby9588]

Some new construction GCs can be very cheap and stubborn old school. And this is a great example.

[@deadlata9767]

This channel hasn’t shown a whole bunch of overpriced new tech liners that failed right?

[@jt5747]

Could you use pvc glue on those hospital corners just to reinforce them?

[@Paul-rg4is]

Not pvc glue, it's specific pan liner glue. It's green, it's also necessary.

[@brocklee1996]

Bro just get a hot mopper to water proof that pan. I get that you're using the membrane but theres no debating that hot mopping is such a superior method and total peace of mind. My guy charges $275 to hot mop a 3x5 pan and curb here in Ventura county, ca. Im not bashing you here, just giving a suggestion to make your shower projects less stressful.

[@jeffreyplumber1975]

Ok Im old school too. pvc liner is new school or no school to me just kidding. but Since Ive never been around it I cant say for sure but... I think it is arguable Hot Mop is everything to us but outside of ca or at most west coast no one hot mops most back east places never have they built lead or copper pans . So I think there are belivers that a well built pvc pan will out last hot mop Im not so sure dont really care to some extent. Im a plumber you want copper pipes we run copper Pex you get Pex Cast iron tub you get cast iron. So my guess is if builder wants Pvc liner thats what it is

[@keska01]

what is the best pan liner to use ?

[@ndsrocks1]

Enough wood curbs. Form and float with drypack

[@Aaron86v]

It makes no difference at all, he's using a pan liner.

[@ndsrocks1]

@Aaron86v it does make a difference as any water making it to the wood(most likely from the outside) will expand the wood and compromise the curb Same amount of water on a drypack curb will have no effect.

[@ndsrocks1]

@BonBon770 I've yet to see a wood curb that didn't have intrusion points all along the outside perimeter. This is also assuming the wood used is properly dried and not the wet waiting to twist stuff in stores today. Forming a curb with wood and floating with drypack is cheaper quicker and better. No slicing liner, no patching, no fastener holes, easy custom sizing, easy sloped top = no brainer.

[@ndsrocks1]

@BonBon770 no, slicing of liner is not necessary in 90% of poured curbs

[@alwayssearching1882]

Waterproof the entire curb and substrate before constructing curb. Never a problem.@@ndsrocks1

[@bryancromwell8099]

Pre slope is for the moisture inside the pan you pour so it weeps out of the pan. A pan that holds water will cause mold issues. Hence the pan drying out via the weep holes. I dont think any new guys understand this.

[@spencerd439]

I thought you were supposed to put an adhesive down on the bottom side of the pan liner. Is it not worth the time and effort to do so?