Complete supply and demand guide corrections from me and the "experts" (zones)

[@ImanTrading]

**** EDIT **** , I made a mistake with using the Roku example for Carmine. 4:35 this zone was drawn from 30 minute candles, not 5 minute ones, so it kind of makes more sense. However, my comments about this being drawn after it happened rather than when it was happening and perfectly going short when that wick barely went in is still valid. If you're new to me, I have MANY prop firm payouts, but I'm not a trading-guru who sells courses. See the best firms ranked and compared here (and discounts) - www.imantrading.org/prop-firms

[@timsimspon5510]

This couldn’t be further from the truth. Do you know how, when and why these zones are drawn? Carmine discusses this often. Please buy the course.

[@AnalystAndy]

Thank you. You are tge first guy pointing that out. I am trading many years now and you are actually one of less than a handful people on youtube, I actually list listen to. For exactly those contradictory explanations that you get about s&d out there as well as the fact that NOBODY seems to be able to tell me how to exactly draw them, I simply do not trade s&d. I rahther buy double bottoms and sell double tops. Yes, I have to live with higher high double tops and lower low double bottoms, but I do not need to bother with believing a concept of "leftover orders". Some fakeouts or fishing for stopps of those who unfortunately traded the breakout instead of the reversal are concepts that I can more readily accept. And I do not need to overload my chart with lines, rectangles and indicators. Thanks again for this great content.

[@joeerhodes]

This is brilliant. I’m a public speaking professor and I wish every student I had could follow logical statements to their conclusions. I keep preaching this. Intuition (which peer reviewed research agrees is trainable), is what separates the winners from the losers here.

[@WISDOMSTRENGTHDISCIPLINE]

Generally when price pierces the bottom it means the zone was not drawn correctly. Next time you see it try adjusting the zone. Also you don't know where in the zone the buyers are coming in at you may have an iceberg order at the bottom of the zone. Another possibility is sellers run out at the bottom and so you have an imbalance because sellers are less. Not all zones are of equal importance. The number of times you come back to a zone and how long it takes you also helps you judge the strength of the zone. But you are absolutely correct there is no substitute for experience when it comes to evaluating a zone and correctly trading what will occur at that zone. Experience is the edge you need to acquirer to be consistent. Keep going you are learning the right stuff. Your ability to draw zones correctly and read them correctly will improve with hard work. Good Luck.

[@Steven-T]

I really appreciate the thought process behind these videos. Making the learning process more efficient/easing the slope of the learning curve should be the goal of everyone in any field.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much :)

[@jjkapoor]

@@ImanTrading Really liked your teaching style. Thank you. Do you happen to have a powerpoint ot PDF of the notes? Thanks again for putting this together.

[@ImanTrading]

@@jjkapoor thank you very much! If you email me [e-mail] I can scrap together the notes from this :)

[@silverscythe6111]

Concerning the wick that goes past the demand zone in 10:30 here's a couple potential solutions I thought up since if the demand zone still works, it logically makes no sense for all of the orders to be filled and have the wick go below the demand zone: 1) Would it not be possible for a buyer to have bid at a price lower than the demand zone and a seller to have asked for that exact price and got filled? That would mean there was only one order that reached below the demand line but then shot back up. The wick would look as if it pushes through all the way down but in reality it was just one order skewing with the candlestick. To test this we would simply need to see the second by second orders and see if the candle shoots down and right back up in a second or so. 2) maybe all of the orders were filled making the zone invalid. But then the institution's placed a whole new set of orders afterwards making the zone valid again. These are just a couple possible scenarios. I would personally lean towards number 2 but I think they may both be valid explanations.

[@freakgib]

Indeed, the video was fascinating. Like you, I've been exploring Supply and Demand (S&D) zones, but I've had similar questions. Despite watching many tutorials, including the one on the 5ers website, I'm still unsure about leftover orders. Who can guarantee that those who placed big orders didn't strategically leave some behind? It's tough to figure out the exact zones. So, I've taken a practical approach. I use a manual Grid tool (Bot) to place my orders around S&D levels. For example, if the market approaches a Supply level, I jump in a bit early to avoid missing out because of spread. I also place orders inside and above the zone in case the market breaks through. If it does, I adjust by placing orders at higher Supply zones. This approach helps me navigate the market's complexities while aiming for profits.

[@ytmish]

As I see it, you are on the right path, trying to use your own brain and understand it your way. In the end, there are many truths, but you can trade ONLY the right way for yourself. Tailored for yourself. Fitting your nature and your beliefs. One thing though, as a little advice. Research brain is GREAT. But it doesnt help one bit the trader brain. Sure, they can enhance each other, but each to its own. Trader brain learns ONLY by practice and through "mistakes". Research will NEVER compensate for lack of trading experience. Thats my own experience talking. Learned this the hard way. Still learning it. (if it was not obvious, i gave too much focus to research side)

[@duncans6263]

The drawn supply zone you referred to at 5:00 was drawn on a 30 min time frame. When you see that same zone on the 5 min chart, as is the case here, it can look like a more random area.

[@duncans6263]

Ok I see someone else pointed this out to you. It’s a pretty big mistake and you discredit Carmine rather unfairly.

[@ImanTrading]

@@duncans6263 Yes I made a big mistake there. It's in my pinned comment. 100% my fault for that one. "I made a mistake with using the Roku example for Carmine. 4:35 this zone was drawn from 30 minute candles, not 5 minute ones, so it kind of makes more sense. However, my comments about this being drawn after it happened rather than when it was happening and perfectly going short when that wick barely went in is still valid."

[@duncans6263]

Ok very good. Great video, especially part one.

[@ImanTrading]

@@duncans6263 thank you :)

[@peterpatuemoua]

The Supply and Demand zones are not about left over orders. It's about the price moving out of a consolidation area aka (Supply or Demand Area) which leaves bag holders in that area, so when prices moves back into that same area, the bag holders well want to exit their positions to break even, which causes the price to stall or reverse in the opposite direction it came. So the longer the consolidation = larger the shares accumulation = a shit ton of bag holders = strong ass area = high likelihood of a reversal.

[@duncans6263]

10:22 if a wick breaks under the demand zone briefly it’s usually cause that’s where the remaining liquidity is with stop losses. The institutions know there’s lots of sell orders there for everyone who is trapped long biased. Remember it’s just a drawn “zone” to give you a good idea where price might bounce. You need to allow some “wiggle” room above and below.

[@ImanTrading]

Right, but in this instance, leftover orders are not the cause of price leaving a demand zone. Resting/leftover orders can not be the reason for price going back up if the wick goes below the lowest point. That would be impossible if there were enough leftover orders from the first move to make it go back up again. Price can go back up from a demand zone, but to say that it’s because of leftover orders is contradictory when a wick goes below the previous order. That’s the point I’m trying to make

[@grimreaperashura999]

Hi friend, the holy grail of trading IS Market Memory. Price, news etc all have a role in market memory. Covid hits? Crash memory. Break of resistance? Bull memory. The market is humanity on steroids. A true extreme of peoples feelings. Smart money doesn’t always stop hunt. Fake moves do exist. Personally I play the divergences of TMO indicator. It’s a Cumulative Delta Oscillator. Price action on larger time frames is the key. Day trade with the large timeframe like Hourly. Also I love your videos. Your concepts are correct from a Market Maker standpoint. Wink wink ;)

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much, and thanks for sharing that :)

[@foamformbeats]

One reason price could break through a supply or demand zone could be that all of the resting orders were filled, but there were too many opposite orders to keep it strictly in the zone in that instance. It's not always clean.

[@dakaodo]

Ha ha, I just yelled at you on your first video about the issue w HTF vs LTF charts and candles. :D Again, great thoughts on cognitive bias and critical thinking about the assumptions we are fed in trading. I love your process as you pick apart these things for what you can or can't use. SD zones drawn on an M15 versus H1 chart are arbitrarily different, yet based on the same underlying price data. WTF, right? Also, if you look back at 19:30 in your Part 1 SD video, the blue/white/gray candle chart clearly shows an ABCD bullish candle pattern breaking out from a tight range, smack in the middle of your chart. So why didn't the SD zone method mark those small range candles preceding the center bullish breakout as a SD zone? True, on the subsequent retest later on the right, a bear trend cut through that unmarked SD zone. But there were several small body large wick candles at the level, indicating that buyers DID try to buy off that zone on a much smaller timeframe. Depending on the scale, if each of these was a daily candle, the LTF could easily have been half a dozen good buy trades at that zone on the M5 timeframe. In this video, your concerns about the inconsistent and discretionary use of SD zones are 1000% on point. Why is the zone edge lower here and not there? Why put the SL farther away from the zone itself, if the zone is supposed to be a complete representation? That's b/c the entire concept of SD zones is arbitrary. Even with Level 2 data and order books, no one really knows the full extent of what buy orders are waiting underneath a low, and what sell orders are waiting above a high. The most extreme wick alone is not a rigid definition of the last order, b/c there's frequently some N+1 asshole patiently waiting for price to drive past that last high or low, before he finally puts in his order. As I said in my other comment, this is why all types of SR/SD levels and zones suffer "fake" or failed probes/tests and breakouts sooner or later. It happens b/c trading is a probabilistic activity, not deterministic. Just accept the risk you've personally defined and move on. Your criticism applies to basically all discretionary trading systems. Most traders who emotionally rely on a TA tool or system without fully understanding how trading is probabilistic want to feed their cognitive biases, relieving their sense of risk aversion. It just feels better to have some clearly defined entry, exit, loss, profit levels and believe that they must be right and exact. And then when inevitably any tool has an unpleasantly incorrect outlier, the kneejerk response is to further feed the risk aversion by fudging the initial rules out a bit farther so the stop loss won't get hit the next time. Until eventually you end up hedging your bets out to a terrible 1R or lower reward:risk ratio. Going by what pro/veteran traders repeatedly say, one of the correct solutions is in fact to suck it up initially, don't move your stops out, and instead improve the precision of your entries and stop losses -- control limited losses, hold for unlimited profits. Trailing soft profit targets is one example how to not limit your profits -- they're not truly unlimited, just not limited by your own narrow trade setup in case a trend extends past your initial target. (Personally, I found the most improvement in my outcomes when I first started to refine my higher timeframe H4 and H1 trades down to lower timeframes M5, then M1, then ultimately tick level. This let me set up trades targeting HTF big money price levels, but made my entries more precise and usually earlier, to the point where my entries and stops based on M1 or M5 price data and volatility matched with my profit targets based on H1, H4, or D1 volatility. I went the opposite direction, toward 3R, 5R, sometimes 10R+ trades. There is an increase in false stop outs and needing to quickly re-enter the trade, as you drastically increase your R ratio though. That part depends heavily on personal psychology, with some room for statistical performance optimization. e.g. I personally prefer to risk losing $20 1-3 times on smaller stops PLUS having to re-establish my position with a new entry, instead of risking losing $60 one time on a single larger stop. Same math, but the first case trades off SOMETIMES losing less money for sometimes having to handle more tasks and stress.) The problem of vagueness in discretionary approaches is why I prefer automating the method of marking and organizing price highs and lows. There are various indicators on TradingView and other platforms that people have written to draw supply demand, support resistance, etc. levels. By doing this automatically, a specific set of code and input parameters may sometimes not mark what you visually perceive as a significant level, but overall it does always give you a consistent organization and hierarchy of price levels and zones. If your tools change calibration every time you use them, how will you know what your baseline is, when using that tool? Example: I personally use two very rigid types of support/resistance. I have no room to question why a high or low does or does not qualify as SR. I use the OHLC value of the previous most recently closed candle on every timeframe. This includes each last H1, H4, D1, W1, MN, and YR candle. This also means each SR level has a built in expiration date when the next candle closes. In 2021, I paid attention to the 2020 annual candle closing price. In 2022, that price level rolls off and I will use the 2021 annual closing price. Same for every month, week, day, so on. I personally trade M5 and lower, so I will do this for all HTFs down to H4 and H1 candles, but obviously those will not be useful to traders who use H1 or H4 as their MTF (main TF) for trade setups. It takes some words to describe, but in actual use is super simple and requires absolutely zero brain power from me to wonder whether X price chart swing high was important or not. My second SR type is round numbers based on quarters, but not the way described in Yotov's book on quarters theory. Literally, every 100, 50, 25, 10, 5, 2.5, 1 level can be important in descending order and only if its size is larger than the average range per candle/bar on a given timeframe. i.e. if my ATR on H1 is 12, I don't care about anything smaller than 25. This is literally just like yard lines on a football field. Again, too many words, but actual use is brain dead simple. Not intended for anyone else to slavishly follow. Just meant to show that automating the analysis process speeds it up and saves mental room and energy for other decision-making.

[@ImanTrading]

Wow! Thank you for sharing all of that. I’m going to need to read it a few times lol. Your comments disappeared from my first video, so I’m assuming you deleted them? I can only see the very beginning from the notification. Thank you for the kind words, and thank you for taking the time to write all of that!

[@wanmohamadazlanwanabdullah5194]

With this length, u should make ur own video

[@willsou1]

I traded for around 1 and a half year, i have the exact thought you mentioned 4:00, thank you so much for bring it up, well done

[@TradeTalkFarsi]

He drew the zones on 30 minutes time frame (as you can see on the chart) and when you screenshot it he is on a lower time frame (5 minute) that's why it doesn't make sense

[@ImanTrading]

Thanks for clearing that up for me lol, that's my mistake.

[@yousajiveturkey1]

Doesn’t matter. The wick should’ve been included in the zones esp on a higher time frame. It’s ok to admit he didn’t use a good example

[@shivangnaik1075]

Yea you cant see the basing bc its a 30m zone but that chart is the 5min. Chart higher time frames but trade on smaller ones for scalping or day trading.

[@jacovanzyl6424]

Finally! Somebody is asking good questions..... I love how these "gurus" tell you things like trading is an "art" hence why you can't automate it etc, etc, etc...... I myself are working tirelessly at figuring this out and I just think by myself; should I figure this out the last thing I would do is run out and try and make money from selling the strategy? Surely there is an easier way to make money from the system especialy with prop options available?

[@RogerKeulen]

I search for reversals with conformation on the D/W/M charts. Use moving averages based on Day. And use Fib ratio to determen take profit points. Works just perfect for me.

[@deandretaylor9972]

What time frame are you executing on? Is it the Dailly also?

[@michaelaldan6969]

well...you have a point there regarding the 'piercing' of the S/D zone...or even where to draw them...since all PA depends on price and volume this might be an interesting subject to delve into...in any case...very informative video...i base my S/D zones on the amount of beer i have consumed :)

[@ImanTrading]

🤣🤣

[@michaelaldan6969]

@@ImanTrading works.....sometimes...

[@backspin1448]

There is a valid reasoning why even pearcing a zone still supports the idea that the price zone was real. The price zone is usually created by support of the large traders (banks, funds etc). The bank or fund doesn't trade like us small individual traders. We place our orders for the complete number of shares (lots,contracts) in a single order after we decide through some hocus-pocus where that should be. But, large traders are not only placing there entries and exit orders in small pieces (relative to the full amount they want) they also are placing parts of their orders over a range of prices. It is entirely likely that the example shown above was simply one large trader selling into a zone where other large traders had only some of their entire buy order filled because they only had some of their full order in place in the market at the time. The large buyers likely refreshed their bids after the initial orders were filled or refreshed their bids slightly lower to get a better price.

[@sionr6531]

at 5:00 where the Supply Zone is being drawn is on 30 Minute Candle as you can see where Carmine labeled and he went down on a smaller time frame on a 5 minute to trade it. Don't get me wrong, It's a great video nonetheless, I just wanted to point it out because I took Carmine Supply and Demand course and it is great. Not affiliate about his course but just want to express it incase someone is interested on buying...

[@ImanTrading]

Yes that’s my mistake. I have it pinned in my comment

[@sionr6531]

@@ImanTrading ahh didn’t see it, sorry.

[@ImanTrading]

@@sionr6531 nah nah you good! That’s on me for not catching that while making the video.

[@samjett6242]

Really great content in all your videos. What's more impressive than that is that you have higher quality, more intelligent comments than some tubers with a zillion followers. People (like me) are really following what you have to say. Thanks.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much! Here for honesty, not to get people to buy a course :)

[@benpyeatt9986]

You could use market profile to show where shares were traded most. POC's and vPOC's work pretty well

[@calvinhelms4442]

I've watched two of your vids .i was glade to see your honesty that your learning . the book trading in the zone was good book . it was written by journalist not traders . most people that teach or have courses don't make their money trading but by the sales of the stuff they sell . it is as easy as you make it with one exception . your own emotions 0nce you add them in trading becomes different . being able to buy /sell in the zone should be easy but its not . your mind is telling you its to soon or to late or like you said your to impatient to wait for or confirm the entry . the candle you pointed out below the supply zone are people buying big at the greedy and dangerous spot just below the zone where there are stops set by people who bought at the top of the zone . i am learning .i didn't know how to draw these zone till now . here is something for you .measured move . market breaks up/down then consolidates/pulls back .you can measure the distance of the first leg and expect the same distance in the second . this can also be done with wedges up/down . measure the back of the wedge . the distance of the break will be equal in most cases . not including false breaks . good trading

[@ImanTrading]

Thanks for sharing that :)

[@gnazlis]

@5:00 Did you consider that the (green ) Pinbar on the right is the actual zone the price reversed? It's a classic setup, there is a "Change of Character" (3rd red bar) and a retracement to a lower timeframe S&D zone, you enter at this zone, stop/loss above the top, exit before the next structural point and... voila, 3-5 R profit.

[@randymartin9040]

Imantrading this guy is right but with a way oversimplified explanation, and he still calls it a pinbar which worries me, so who knows how well he truly understands it, but he's on the right track at least

[@soe2152]

Thanks for sharing your knowledge Iman. What happened in 10:44 is called "Price Manipulation" created by market makers for their liquidity. Nothing is certain in trading we just have to mitigate our risk and be patience for your setup. I learnt a lot from Carmine course. His course is way undervalued compared to other courses.

[@Andy-xq3ut]

I'll be commenting on your old stuff I'm sure. Only found your channel recently. The little jokes, love it. Thoughts on 4 to 5 min about that large zone. My thought to why you would draw that as a whole zone before the extra candles came. The first move down gave us our supply. The retest failure gave us an area of interest. I'd have marked the area of interest as a seperate short term Res line. Now some would combine the Supply and Res to one zone. Drag that across and you'd get that further touch point area marked well before it came. But my zone specifically for my Supply level there wouldn't have gone that low. It would only ever be marked that low if I decided to combine my Supply and Res zone below it. Which in hindsight would have worked there

[@gangstagamingfamily5486]

The slippage trades make sense @ 11:03 just because there are leftover orders to buy doesn’t mean there are leftover orders to sell… Hence demand, however there maybe a few people willing to sell below the demand line and a few people willing buy. It could literally be 10 even 1 share could create that line. And retail traders newbs do all kinds of weird stuff and buy 1 share.

[@johnuniverse2902]

Hello Iman, i'm not sure if the 3-wicks question at around 10:00 has been answered or not but many times (not all) these zones extend beyond the drawn demands or supplies because there are STOP loss orders there that market makers can take advantage of. Like the one in question, Yes all the buy orders have been executed and of course stop loss orders are automatically placed below that line, so what the computers do is that they hunt those SELL STOPS so they get better long positions buy buying them and drive market up. In this case, market makers actually double dipped on the stop losses right there. Hopefully this helps.

[@netking767]

(done watching) I was saying that once I became successful I'd share knowledge on what it's really like to trade. You've beat me to it. May success hunt you down, brother!

[@ImanTrading]

😁 thank you!

[@spacepeezy]

ladies and gentlemen, oop gentlemen LMFAO now one of my favorite trading channels 😂

[@milindranjan2253]

I believe the wick breaking the zones sometimes are not very much of value. Since there is an order of unpredictability in the market it can also be a variation or error in the price due to the orders left. These form of randomness allows prices to fluctuate and a good example would be to the see prices on a high volatility day , so many wicks breaking the zones and still respecting them. For me personally until the close of the candle occurs above or below the zone we cannot say it has broken the zone still that is just what I have experienced looking at charts. And you're right about no one talking about it since it confuses me too plus I can also be wrong with my analysis so I will keep learning to improve

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you for sharing that. Some good information there

[@usarespnsblty]

I like your videos. Honesty & humor goes a long way. I do like Seceret Mindset Spread/Volume analysis videos. I found them helpful. I also found helpful the Brooks price action: Trading opening Breakouts & reversals helpful. Happy Trading! Keep going! 👍

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much!

[@dcsck1]

Thank Bro, so what's the correct way to draw S/D zone? I'm still confused

[@90sideways]

best s/d zone guy on youtube!!!!! These other people like to keep it ambiguous so they cant be held accountable.

[@themoneymaker03]

Good information as always. Thanks. My favorite part was when you said "I copied and pasted it" when referring to that green bar. Not sure if that was meant to be funny but it made me lol.

[@ImanTrading]

Haha thank you very much 😁

[@chrisakbas938]

I really like your way of teaching! Regarding how the candles are formed, Tradingview has the ability to play back the live action. Would there maybe be a benefit of looking at the zones and then play back and see how they were formed?

[@s1m0n13]

"piercing" supply/demand makes complete sense. You just have to adjust your thinking. Price line is record of agreement between sellers and buyers. If forced (like institutional pressure) price will go one direction in consolidation until all buy or sell pressure is exhausted. On first or second return to the level, price will encounter resistance and shoot the other direction. By applying pressure on the other side you can force exhaustion. In other words, no one is willing to sell at that level anymore. Hope this makes sense. I can elaborate more if it's not clear.

[@ImanTrading]

Piercing a zone is fine; claiming that the price will repeat its behavior because of resting orders is nonsense. My whole claim here is that price will repeat behavior from supply and demand zones because of that value still existing, not because of leftover orders being the driving factor.

[@vnormikoluvformi]

You are not only a smart trader, you are also a good teacher and video maker. You make trading blockbuster like in Hollywood 💪😉😎

[@ImanTrading]

Haha thank you so much!

[@seanl3088]

This is what im facing currently, thanks so much for your videos.

[@fpsjohnny3896]

I really like that you mentioned Carmine! I really think he is so well educated and his videos are SO professional

[@ImanTrading]

For sure! Probably the best for supply and demand that I know of

[@fpsjohnny3896]

@@ImanTrading I appreciate you uploading these videos. You are a very transparent person it seems and your only out here to educate people while educating yourself in the process. Much respect, best of luck trading!

[@ImanTrading]

@@fpsjohnny3896 thank you, and you as well :)

[@georgehoffmann4148]

The questions that pop up for me here is, what are these „left over orders“ the theory is based on? Where do they come from? The only people that really _need_ orders to be filled are those caught in a trade the wrong way. And even those can move the levels around as they dare. The price situation is dynamic and traders will adjust. Anyone can cancel or move unfilled orders. Why than can we assume there are any „leftovers“? Sentiment from the last time the price was in this region last time, maybe? Fundamentals? Hope for pattern repetition? What do you think?

[@craigdavidbutler]

My theory is on supply or demand zone breaks before a reversal is market makers know and can see stops and know where people typically place them. Most people place them at the logical locations such as the bottom of a demand zone or at VWAP or the top of a supply zone. So needless to say MM often take the price a point or 2 above to take retail traders liquidity only to reverse it.

[@alimrahardian109]

just my though on piercing beyond supply zone. i think on some symbol are sometimes just happen to be dominated by single or few institutional. thus gives them greater control over retail trader. for example in a demand zone, an institutional can enter a position first then sell a fraction of it to create selling pressure and at the same time cancel their buy order, creating huge decline or even gap on the buy order. retail who uncertain and watching solely on lower tf may panic and sold their position on impulse, pushing the price down beyond demand zone. then institutional who already waiting, enter their remaining unfulfilled position at better price. pushing price back up. note that i only trade on stock market in my country and i think forex has different behavior than stock.

[@tjunior6128]

Wow I thought the part 1 video was good but this follow up was incredible. Often times these so called “gurus” make it seem so simple and comprehensive but they’re just regurgitating what they’ve been taught themselves and it’s all subjective at best. So many contradictions and plot holes in their circular maze of logic. Consider me a new subscriber.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much!

[@jdalbama3129]

The way to find out the speed of departure from a price level in question in relation to supply and demand zones which makes sense to me is to look at the range charts which correlate to the timeframe of the candle

[@jdalbama3129]

You can find out the story of a timed candle by looking at the range charts for that same timeframe. 22’ (range), 10’ , and 5’ offer pretty good insight imo

[@shannonrice8016]

I was told by a Large fund trader that the "Big Guys" dont do super large orders but continual 100 lot orders every little pull back and "edge" into a position.... when soft bank was selling its 10 percent stake in ali baba years ago, i watched it bounce up and down.... but always ending a little lower than the hour before. this went on for days, if someone does a large sell order of say 100,000 it would flush a candle down and active traders would buy it back up. The "Big Fish" slowly climb up with every bounce down (if they are adding position). I interpreted what Carmin was saying as the 100 lot increments of buying stop when the price gets to high, and restarts when it drops down. maybe that was me trying to make sense of it.

[@ImanTrading]

That makes a lot of sense and sounds good to me Shannon. Its implication for supply and demand trading is interesting.

[@shannonrice8016]

@@ImanTrading Im curious how you( Iman) would apply it to supply and demand trading :)

[@ImanTrading]

@@shannonrice8016 well it certainly makes it more complicated! I already view it now as just another idea that doesn’t actually work that well. I know I have a video about it lol, but I made that with 25 subscribers and I never meant for it to blow up. I was just trying to learn the system. After actually trying it in real time, it was no more useful to me than any other indicator or other method that attempts to simplify the chaos of the markets. I do recognize that there are profitable traders who use supply and demand though. So, it may just not have been a good fit for me. Your point about the incremental buying really counters all the BS about “leftover orders” that gets pushed by course-selling youtubers though.

[@EternitySoundDesign]

I really like your videos. I learn a TON of useful stuff, like red and green is reen. keep up the good work!

[@ImanTrading]

Haha thank you very much!

[@donkeyface]

Bro, you’re gonna be KZbin famous…. Your content is 🐐 Level.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you so much!

[@cesarl3639]

It seems like you are approaching S&D as a "holy grail" trading system, the market context is everything, relative strength on a stock during a weak market day, is very different from a stock thats just following the market. supply and demand are meant to be used like any indicator or pattern or set-up its signs to help you build a thesis to put on a trade. most of what you said towards the end of the video can be used for any pattern or indicator on the market, but it's all in how you use it. Carmine always talks about volume, volatility, and momentum thats another piece of the puzzle to go along with other clues to help you structure a trade. if you use it like a tool and not an answer to a question you don't know it'll be more beneficial. Also would be cool to go into that roku chart you showed and see what the candles looked like on a 30m time frame. his zone said 30m but it was a 5 min chart, that would be a cool analysis to show the structure of the 30m candle he used to make a zone. really love your content and the openness to discuss ideas. look forward to what you have coming in the future

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you for that! I'm gonna have to read it a couple of times. Thanks for sharing that and helping me out, I appreciate it.

[@Gregoz987]

I use the Supply and demand zones as areas of importance. Besides I get verdigo when I see to many lines on a chart makes me want to take a nap. Anyways kinda like you said it's an art form and a science. Keep up the good work and the comedy. Stay nimble my guy.

[@juancarlosclaramuntgarcia9177]

I think, and it is just my opinion, that you miss one of the basis of commercial transactions. They can be done in a rush accepting the bid or the ask, or paused with a limited order. The order flow that is seen are the limited orders, that sometimes can be used to lure innocent people. But in order to move the market, you need the rush orders. Without them there is no movement. So a supply and a demand zone can be pierced, and that does not mean that every order in that zone is completed. The limit ones, of course they are. But there could be a big chuck of shadow market orders waiting to be completed and not being observable anyway. I am not defending anyone. It is just how commercial transactions are done. You can read a lot of stuff related with this line of thinking at Monetary Metals. Keith Weiner explains really well how prices are formed.

[@wallstreetwarrior7840]

The zone that Carmine made is legit and I will tell you why. First let's walk through the price action. A). Price bounced at support B). The bounce failed forming a pivot C). Price then broke through that support. What you're missing is that, that support that broke now turns to resistance. So from the newly formed resistance level to the pivot top defines your supply zone. These are the steps to use to identify S/D zones. 1. Spot your support or resistance which price rejects off of. 2. After price comes back and breaks through the level identify the specific candle the breaks the structure. This candle is the threshold is to your supply zone. And the top of this candle is the extreme point of your supply zone. Trading S/D levels does require alot more the just recognizing zones. Price cycle(as in elliot wave theory) and understanding timeframe price cycle maturityis just as important as drawing zones.

[@yoakumchris]

You notice when the zone was pierced, it’s 3 long wicks in there. Now for everyone that bought that up, where do you think they put their stop? And why do you think the last candle wicks just below the low of the previous. Big money spends resources to make predictable patterns for noobs so they can exploit “low risk” tight stops.

[@MikiCab1]

Around 10:55 is where you are talking about left over orders. I don't think it is leftover orders just sitting there. It is "Demand" that is waiting. Big institutional investors want to by XYZ company between $10.00 and $10.15. They are buying millions if not billions of dollars worth. This may take minutes, hours or days. Every time the price goes to high they stop buying. When the stock comes back down they start buying again. Same thing with Supply and selling. As a retail investor your order does not matter in the big picture unless a few thousand of your friends all start buying at once. The way I think of it is Demand and not left over orders. The reason you put your stoploss above and below the Supply and Demand zone is the price can overshoot and I believe they are manipulating (big players) to trigger stoploss and take our money.

[@njw6146]

it's true that you can learn everything these people have to offer on your own, the real problem is time -- time spent hours watching content with no real structure, assuming it's legit. I like the style of your video "COMPLETE opening range break trading guide - Stocks + Options (not suited for all traders" where it felt more of a tutorial and "try it out then come back to the video" as opposed to "here's a bunch of shit that may have some useful information but good luck sifting through all of it since my business model relies on you and others like you spending hours of your lifes watching content to make me rich". I hope to see more of the same format, perhaps when large enough compiled into a playlist / curriculum of some form.

[@ImanTrading]

In the future, I will try and find out which strategies are actually legit (like opening range breaks), and make some sort of playlist on them. Thank you :)

[@tr4pgod647]

The track at the end though 🔥🔥

[@unatrader108]

A footprint chart can often help you understand those wicks. For example as price entered the demand zone, traders who let their winners run after taking profit would move their stop to break even. As those longs get closed out it will push price down through the zone. Seeing the order flow and Open Interest would give you insight to the cause. Great video, thanks.

[@ImanTrading]

I’ll check it out, thank you :)

[@nikhilkale2460]

Thank you sir... For sharing true knowledge.. love from India

[@drummerboy5142]

if you apply hekin aski candles and then draw the zones as you laid out in the first video you get a much better picture. Do this for the last week on the hourly and the ES and NQ only missed hitting the zones I think twice, the rest of the time on a 15 mins chart you got some amazing money making moves

[@drummerboy5142]

the secret mindset explains how to use and understand those candlesticks

[@spezzatura7086]

I just came across your videos and want to thank you for generously sharing your knowledge. I don't use supply and demand zones myself for all the reasons you've mentioned but have a related question on the "life" of previously established support or resistance? I use a short-timeframe chart (1-min) for my trading and struggle with how far back to look for relevant S/R levels. Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you! I'm less qualified to answer that question than many, but here are my thoughts. For longer time frame support and resistance levels, I prefer them as a reference rather than something to immediately take trades off. For example, it might not be a good move in terms of probability to take it short right before what has proved to be support at some level. It doesn't mean we should go long at that level, but we should be cautious about the direction of a trade without regarding all of the potential factors. That is just a vague blanket statement in regards to always going with higher probability moves. Your best bet will be to do your own research and your own personal learning, that way it sticks better and is more important to you. KZbin is helpful for many things, but most of learning trading has to come from you and I on our own journeys. Something that works very well for you might be confusing for me, and vice versa :)

[@spezzatura7086]

@@ImanTrading Thanks for the quick reply!

[@jakecondemn3209]

Great video. One thing I truly did like is how you talked about the weakness of the timeframe and how drew those 2 candles but showed 2 different examples on how they formed. I am going to try something different. I am going to find my zones, then do time replay on a lower time-frame to see how fast they moved from that particular zone. This could be an eye opener.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much! It was something I’ve been thinking about lol

[@ente_kadang2_ya158]

from my experience its rare PA analyst or trader mention how PA move with placement of order and close order in correlation with why a PA react to a zone of interest.

[@netking767]

(haven't watched fully yet) LOL this is bloody good entertainment man! Thanks! Thanks a billion!

[@ImanTrading]

😁 thanks for watching so many videos!

[@netking767]

@@ImanTrading haha I'm on a binge (although i should be backtesting). So much sense on this channel ("leftovers orders", my arse! "Good price" or "value at this price" makes a lot more sense)

[@ImanTrading]

@@netking767 😁😁

[@netking767]

Oh, in case anyone's wondering, I'm watching the videos on 2.5x-3x speed (I downloaded a chrome extension to speed up any video as fast as I like). Can't blow through hours of educational content without it haha

[@armaniwright6010]

So what’s really happening with the zones movement . Is it more of stop lost hunting or price action? What cause the zones to be break

[@floydsmithjr7999]

I think the jist of this conversation is “IMO”. In my opinion, A good zone is, or at least should be, very obvious. If it’s a solid zone you’ll see it as soon as you open the chart. If not, you’re better off waiting for one to set up, but don’t sit there staring at it for days, you may miss another trade somewhere else. As far as mapping out zones yourself, how wide is “In your opinion” All you can do is set your stops accordingly. Like you allude to, it is gambling. You’re betting its gonna turn around there, like “There’s been 10 black cards in a row, red should be coming up soon” Sometimes the house drops an Ace on your ass and scoops up your money, that’s life in the big city. Like right now, at 7:55 am Monday morning: “Premarket update: Stocks sink amid covid concerns” All of a sudden a turning point in the zone trade that looked promising yesterday just got hit in the forehead with a monkey 🐒 wrench. Now there’s a good chance that many support zones are gonna be destroyed right out of the gate. Welcome to the new world of trading “The covid Market”. The new #1 factor in technical analyst is what kind of covid b.s. is spewing out of the talking heads today. Maybe we could invent a new indicator, we’ll call it “The Covid Oscillator” 📈📉 It’ll measure how many people tested positive in a 24 hour period, of course its a lagging indicator, it only tells what happened yesterday. 🙄 Im tellin ya, I was pumped to get into some trades today, now, not so much. Anyway, great video. You may be the only real world youtube out there. Keep it real. Keep it simple.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much, and all great points. The Covid Oscillator sounds like a good idea 😁

[@DennisvantWel]

Gave it some thoughts but to me the so called stop loss hunting does make sense. If traders anticipate a move and place their trades in advance they’re likely placing their SL a bit above the zone to accommodate for the spread (difference between buy and sell prices), especially during rollover these spreads may become quite significant. Not all traders are at their desk when trading and others who are might make use of that.

[@famishproductions18]

2:55 I recommend Weis waves, which show accumulated/hidden volume over the course of waves in the market. No, I am not an expert, but I study constantly and have found weis waves helpful when looking for ways to interpret the story the charts are telling.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you! I’ll check it out

[@WaleHTX]

@@ImanTrading Any updates from checking it out?

[@ImanTrading]

@@WaleHTX I don’t have time right now, but I plan on reviewing all trading-related topics eventually. It will just take awhile :)

[@saj9814]

The first video you made actually improved my trading, guess it will improve more after this vid. Thanks. By the way use it for scalping, under 5-15mins. I observed I fail most of the time when I enter too early or too late when zones are broken. Fomo somethinv kicks in.

[@ImanTrading]

Glad to hear! FOMO kicks all of us in the butt sometimes. I should probably make a video on it, even though everyone has a good idea on what it is. I think I could give some good tips on dealing with it though. Who knows! I’ll add it to the list lol

[@saj9814]

@@ImanTrading that would be great. i actually wrote my trading rule on paper and place it beside my monitor. This somehow makes me more conscious with my trade, just applying a piece of advice from James Clear's book - atomic habit.

[@ImanTrading]

@@saj9814 that’s great. I had a list of notes to look at while trading too. Helped to keep me leveled

[@saj9814]

​@@ImanTrading I am currently reading (actually procrastinating) these 4 ebooks suggested by a channel concerning zones and how institutions trade, which he is selling as part of his education program, but happened to download the ebooks for free, I think some of his students uploaded copies of the ebooks. Would you like to help me digest the content, I can share it with you. How can I send it to you, simply read it or delete it after. And forgot to mention, I made some adjustments on your suggested way of drawing the zones from the vid 1, just trying to check consistency with the changes I made.

[@ImanTrading]

@@saj9814 lol awesome! My email is [e-mail] , although I’m quite busy with reading and watching some other materials right now. I might get to them eventually. And good! The zones aren’t as simple as people make it seem, which is what I was trying to explain with the part 2. If you find something that works better, then that’s great.

[@baole4811]

Hello Isaac, I am a young viewer and I love watching your content because I'm a visual learner, I also love your editing and creativity but boomers wouldn't understand haha. I mainly knew about supply and demand because of Carmine Rosato but I wanted to learn more and tried to find smaller channels for validity and found yours. Do you plan to open a Discord server anytime soon? I would hear your explanation even in essays all day

[@ImanTrading]

Haha thank you very much! I try to keep a good balance so that it appeals to all ages. I do, but I'm very busy right now so hopefully it will happen within the next month. Check out Day Trader Next Door for the best live trading videos. He's great. Doesn't trade supply and demand though, he focuses more on possible pivot/turning points. Other than him, I'm not sure of any channels who are making content for the gain of their viewers rather than themselves.

[@jcboutelle]

Isaac, nice job. Good video. Appreciate you taking the time to weed through a lot of bs out there. Also I'm a student of DTND. Keep it real!

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you, and awesome :). He’s the best

[@keithurbanrz4ni_]

Thanks for all you do. Love your delivery. I personally think you'd make a lot more money on stage reading your notes than you will on trading. OK that was a bad joke. Anyways, after watching a whole ton lot of KZbin videos on trading, I discovered the importance of the 0.7 Fibonacci level. It seems to work almost perfectly in giving a reliable level to take trades of off. Or is it off of. OK now I'm just mimicking you. Oh well, thought I should share my observations so you could help do more research. You's a great guy. Cheers!

[@ImanTrading]

Haha thank you very much! I’ll keep that in mind for the next fib video I do 😁

[@peter16665]

I bet you, he would make more money with these monologues. Hahaha. Its off of. The fibs .7 to .78 is a goldmine. I have recently started looking at these levels.

[@lia55lee]

minute 10:52 the wick is formed by those who placed a sell short order, but were wrong beacuse the buyers took over (you could see the taking over at a lower time frame).

[@ImanTrading]

Yes, but my confusion was about how if resting orders make the price go up, and, if a demand zone is broken at the bottom, then that would mean that the zone has been invalidated because the resting buy orders were absorbed. There will certainly be new buyers, but new buyers aren't what some people say make demand zones. I was specifically referring to those who say that resting/leftover orders make the price move again, rather than people who take the same trade twice because of value still remaining there. Kind of a tricky one for me to explain coherently. If a zone is broken, it would imply that leftover buy orders from the first trade have now been all filled, which would mean that they would not be the reason for price going up again.

[@lia55lee]

@@ImanTrading pay more attention to the closeing price vs the wicks, and volume. Volume is the main indicatror of the presence of institutions, who are the market movers. moreover, look for the content of "Pips Of Persia"

[@lia55lee]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5mofJaBmtt2ldE a video about institutional candles :)

[@ImanTrading]

@@lia55lee thank you :), I’ll check it out when I can. Maybe even a video idea lol

[@SyFlys]

well done bro, these videos have helped me so much when it comes to identifying those zones and not only that but actually being able to execute off them thanks to the confidence these videos have allowed me to build up when it comes to S&D. Truly an amazing job, thanks again.

[@josephchan9414]

For the false breakout (downtrend, exceeding the demand zone with a long tail in a very short time), I am wondering if it is caused by algo trading on large firm. eg: In interactive broker, there is an option "Price mgmt algo" in the buy order setting, ie. the order is not put on the orderbook immediately (based on some AI algo)

[@josephchan9414]

Also, the big player in the market could produce fake breakout to shakeout those unconvicted orders in order to make the upcoming uptrend much smoother. (Just a guess)

[@ImanTrading]

Possibly! I’m sure there are dozens of different factors at play. Like with everything to do with trading, I’m sure there’s a bit of truth to countless reasons.

[@jayhind3046]

The best way is to look in smaller time frame breakout and Tak e little liberal entry

[@xkkx377]

I think the buy orders still work unless if the stop loss got hit. I think most traders understand that price can below a zone, so you would place your stop loss underneath the zone.

[@ChaoticNeutralMatt]

Huh. Actually this reminded me of the 'meaning crisis'. Just because there are a lot of ways to interpret something doesn't mean we can't have useful interpretations, although understanding the reasons why we make those judgments is itself an interesting rabbit hole. Why is it when you look at a book, it's a book, and why can you compare it to another 'similar' object, and then depth of meaning and connections between ideas and... Yeah. Anyway.

[@alexoberloh6833]

On the chart at 10:53 personally I think the zone is still valid because the candle didn't close under it. imo the zone is only broken when a candle closes below the demand or above the supply.

[@alexoberloh6833]

@GJ ya I’m saying for like when your trying to watch the setup. Like it could still be a valid start to a s+d setup if the wick breaks the zone but the candle doesn’t.

[@genoTrades]

I would say Carmine used a bad zone. There are too many basing candles and there isn't enough strength in the move out. He also doesn't show if the move out broke through a potential supply zone. Also, for drawing the zones he doesn't seem to acknowledge the for basic formations that form the zone structures: rally base rally, drop base rally, rally base drop and drop base drop. Nor does he seem to acknowledge the highs and lows of each segment where the Distal Line of each of the four basic formations are found.

[@MarkEm]

11:09 couldn't that candle layout be caused by a conservative limit buy order and/or take-profit orders positioned for a large payout ? Food for thought

[@catworld7576]

Hi man, your videos are really amazing...one thing if you do it would be great. Kindly change your chart settings to white background along with green and white candles...please..

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you! Most pictures of charts are not from me. However, I use a black background with green and red candles. I can’t do white because I have very sensitive eyes.

[@MojoMfg]

Hey, how are ya? Just wanted to say thanks for the content, I truly enjoy it and I would say it helped my trading. I paper traded for months and I just started trading MES for real but I do market replays at night to really hone my skills, which are still not the best at this point. Also, thanks for mentioning Day Trader Next Door. That dude is a god, also, he reminds me of Bubbles from trailer park boys but that's besides the point.

[@ImanTrading]

Great! Thank you very much. Don't forget that there a couple different futures markets, so you never know which one might be better for you! hahaha I've never made the Bubbles connection. Maybe my favorite show of all time.

[@KinaStaru]

what about the Lux Algo Smart money concepts that would auto draw the zones?

[@foamformbeats]

I'm not sure where the confusion lies with placing a stop loss above the supply zone. If there are no more leftover orders to make price go down, then price goes up, and you want to stop out of your short. Or maybe you have some idea of going long at a supply zone? That wouldn't make much sense though unless I'm completely misunderstanding what you meant.

[@xIGxFanta]

yeah these videos are great! keep up the great work! looks like you really put some elbow grease in your videos thats rare to see on youtube!

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much!

[@karlbooklover]

11:00 not necessarily a contradiction IF he mentions that the SL should have some distance to the box

[@Izzy10k]

What do you mean by "the value still remains" when you argue against the idea that left-over orders control supply and demand? At 8:55

[@Izzy10k]

Also this argument at 9:07 kind of make sense. However, I thought the idea of left-over orders moving the market was that price moved out of a Supply/Demand zone so fast that a good amount of orders were left behind. And were still able to move price.

[@YesWeCan-u9i]

Can you explain supply and demand on higher time frames. I use a custom script on TOS that automatically charts out supply and demand zones on any time frame. However, one thing that is an issue for me is that what is demand on a daily time frame can show up as supply on a 4 hour or 1 hour or 15 minute or 5 minute time frame. Any views?

[@Nztuser001]

I found this after 52 hours of watching supply & demand videos lol

[@ygsrinivas]

Your content is good. Keep posting. There is channel you might be interested. Pivot Call, there are some live trade videos you can go through. You don't have to buy a course. He trades using important zones and pivot lines. He trades Indian market though but you can apply same logic for US markets as well.

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you very much :). I’ll be sure to check them out when I can

[@johnnorris10]

In regards to huge supply zone, you just keep marking the last points of suppy, so that top one broke structure, then you had another supply zone that broke structure aswell, if you draw those 2 separate zones right you would see price came back to the last supply zone created and not the higher top zone, he must of just combined em for no reason or to make it easier for him though.

[@yashinfinite8338]

Does the option chain data governs the market movements or the stock prices in the equity buying or selling by fii dii

[@ImanTrading]

Options don't affect the underlying unless they are exercised. The worth of options change because of changes in the stock price from trading shares. They also change because of time decay and implied volatility, but they have no effects on the stock's share price.

[@ente_kadang2_ya158]

@@ImanTrading option is pure gambling gimmicking trading

[@ImanTrading]

@@ente_kadang2_ya158 using options isn’t any more risky than doing any other forms of trading. I assume you think that because of the stories about people gambling like on Wallstreetbets? If so, you should watch the video I made on them. Thinking that about options involves confirmation bias and a few other cognitive biases. Happens to all of us.

[@ente_kadang2_ya158]

@@ImanTrading why it has timer and why we only gain 0.8 when we win and others funny rules lol. i dunno what ur talking about its OPTION binary. im better trading crypto coz both has no fundamental value

[@ImanTrading]

@@ente_kadang2_ya158 different doesn’t mean worse, it just means different. Having a value partly deriving from time allows for different types of plays. Options provide leverage, not .8 instead of 1. It’s the other way around. You’re making $80 on a 1$ move in your example of the delta being .8. Not 80 cents instead of $1.

[@roscoeherald1414]

Do you think you could allow more ads?

[@bhargavsai5088]

Nice, in your last video you said you were doing trend based trading, you gonna share something about it and i have something to share with you but not sure how?

[@ImanTrading]

I will definitely be making a video at some point about my progress and notes. My email is [e-mail] and my instagram is imantradingfutures :)

[@icemannn5453]

High of previous day low of previous day plus 20 pips of risk no guess work just price ...1 : 3 risk reward ....back test it ...should be easy as there is no guess work just exact price ...we can"t sit in front of the comp all day so just trade 8-12 NY time ...The hardest part is self control to just wait for the setup

[@PISTA-CODM]

6:52 no such thing as selling/buying pressure. Just money. 1. Make a formation 2. Convince the traders to take it. 3. Hit the millions accumulated in stops. Each and every direction taken is money driven. YOUR LOSS means profit. 1) These videos all over KZbin are seen!!!! and gives an idea of where entries will be as well as stops. When the orders and positions come in it validates how most of traders are trading. 2) Then comes the attack on psychology and emotion. Most want to get rich. Get rich quick I might add. Seeing the “setup” creates excitement and euphoria. YOU ARE CONVINCED. You probably over leverage. If your “smart” enough to calculate the appropriate risk on the trade you do so… it takes a few stop outs to get you feeling like shit and get you pissed before giving yourself a pep talk to come back stronger with more leverage🤣 There’s a bit more to the business but it’s important you understand that there aren’t many odds in your favor. You are an emotional being. P.S Some of the guys teaching strategies on YT are paid to do so to make the job a lot more easier. If everyone is selling peaks and buying lows it means there’s a shit ton of stops up/down there to hit🤤

[@WATCHMEGOBROKE]

Make a video on market Manipulation and stop hunting

[@moodafan123]

8:49 the leftover orders shit made me confused for a solid 2 hours, It messed me up I felt like I lost over 20 iq trying to understand it. I had to delete it from my mind just so I can cope.

[@762kevo8]

U should look how moneyball austin draws his zones. the best zones for me are from the basing candles on higher timeframes.

[@ImanTrading]

Thanks, I’ll check him out!

[@auri2501]

I really enjoy your content and input, but sometimes I do not agree. 10:29 , well charts are not perfect as we all know, and S/D Zones are called zones for a reason and the price doesn't have to stop exactly at the bottom of the zone, if you would think like that you would be limiting yourself so much. A lot of factors could make the price go down a little more than that zone, that doesn't mean that the whole concept of S/D is wrong

[@ImanTrading]

Thank you. I'm not using that example to say that supply and demand doesn't work. I'm saying the idea that leftover buy orders driving the price up can't be true because the price going through the zone implies that all of the orders are absorbed. Maybe leftover orders slow it down, but they are not what drive it back up or back down. That's just a really simple concept that disproves leftover orders being the driving force (or the zone being incorrect). If there are 1000 buy orders at 100, then price will not go below that until all of them are absorbed. If it goes to 99, it means all 1000 buy orders were filled. So, if it goes to 99 and then back up to 105, leftover orders were not what made it go up. That is not an opinion; that's how it works. That's all I'm saying. I should've mentioned that the zone was just drawn incorrectly by him, but you would think that a person trying to show supply and demand working would use a correct example. The problem with just saying the zone wasn't big enough (as opposed to saying the zone was invalid) is that it leaves the question of where do you draw the line? You have to put the bottom of the demand zone somewhere, and if you say that it hasn't been invalidated when price goes through it, then when do you call it? I understand the complexity involved with zones and how imperfect they can be, but price can only go so far below it before it becomes invalidated. This was a case where someone went back in time on a chart that already happened and just put in a box where price reversed. It's just searching a massive pool of data for correlations that only exist due to the quantity of information. Supply and demand might work, but it still has lots of issues and logical fallacies that need to be pointed out. Sorry for writing so much, lol. I appreciate the support and hope you understand that I make these harsh critiques of trading systems so that people aren't led astray.