A Battle for the Northwest Frontier | Toledo Stories: War of 1812 in the Old Northwest | Full Film

In 1812, a very young United States of America had its sights set on expansion to the north and the west. But the British wanted to keep its former colony tightly contained. In the balance were the lands of the Northwestern Frontier.
England's Canadian provinces wanted a buffer zone between their lands and what they perceived as a hostile United States. The native peoples who called this land their home, wanted it declared a self-governing Indian territory; an independent nation. The United States wanted to settle the frontier, as they felt they had been promised at the end of the Revolutionary War.
The frontier was a gateway to further western expansion; a Great Lakes highway to natural resources; and a military challenge to the combatants.The War of 1812 would decide who controlled the lands of the Northwestern Frontier, and the future of a continent.
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[@michaelpryzdia1505]

It is a privilege to see Dr. David Skaggs -- and hear his opinions -- in this piece. I took every class I could with him when I began my graduate work at Bowling Green State University (American Culture Studies) circa 1986. His passion for American History was contagious and inspired many of us!!!!

[@jcortez1314]

Just wanted to add something that wasn’t mentioned here. Tecumseh stopped the torture of the American POWs at the River Raisin by the Native Americans. American survivors praised Tecumseh for this in their personal letters they sent back home. Tecumseh then shamed the British officers for not being able to stop the massacre by their Native Allies.

[@davidthigpen2366]

That was Dudleys defeat, right outside of fort Miamis. We have a monument for the British soldiers that were killed trying to stop it.

[@natehoover5266]

I loved this. It's my favorite war to talk about. So many cool stories and interesting people. My family's original homestead is on the banks of the Sandusky River right next to Wyandot county, which was the last Indian reservation in Ohio. I feel such a connection to these stories.

[@Charigun]

Indians aren't from the continent you live on. These are Native Americans :)

[@jamesgoldstien1468]

🙏🙏🙏🫡🫡🫡🫡🤘🤘🤘 Stan was my 4th grade teacher

[@braddocke.hutton7392]

What I wouldn't give to hop into a time machine and go explore the past. Of course I'd stop by Woodstock in 1969, The Grassy Knoll in Dallas in 1963, but then I'd eventually make my way towards the early days of this country. I just imagine the giant trees, stunning scenery, fresh air, and people with more charm and character than we can even imagine today. Every book was precious, every article of clothing was hand made, and every meal you ate was well-earned. I imagine the peaceful dirt roads long before noisy gas engines would forever drown out the simple sounds of nature, daily tasks, and neighborly conversation.

[@michaelpalmer937]

Braddock E. Hutton What about visiting Waterloo , because we all know you won that for us English, ...no ! ...l had forgotten,..Mind you it's ONLY a matter of time when you start claiming that....you did it with ww1...from late Jun 1918 after only 6 months in action on the fronts were the Germans were utterly defeated and asset destroyed,...... Stolen Valor ,..now you know were that word originated from English Mik

[@yelsmlaugh]

@@michaelpalmer937 I suggest you look up where "were" originated.

[@michaelpalmer937]

David Walmsley Yes ....'so what's the thrust of your argument ????

[@miked8227]

I also drift away at times and imagine myself in the time period of the history I’m learning about. If only we could return for a short period of time, it would be so cool.

[@TH-rn4rf]

And then you’d die at 16 from diarrhea

[@Chief2Moon]

Ft. Miegs& the Maumee River beside it are my playground. Occasionally musket balls can still be found along the shore.

[@diggLincoln]

Dallas DautermanDallas are they always round or do you find the “cleaning type”?

[@Chief2Moon]

White Hat Most I've found are either round or flattened from hitting something

[@divided_and_conquered1854]

The pages of all people's histories are soaked in blood; from ancient times, right on up to the modern day.

[@violetdivinespiritualreadi1824]

Not nearly as much as Europeans

[@violetdivinespiritualreadi1824]

Tribes are different with language and customs so many tribes didn't get along we see them as the same people but their not that's why tribal wars is something people can't wrap their mind around it was political to gain more land and warriors but they would assimilate the opposing tribe into the dominant ones who won the battle the chief of the enemy tribe would be killed men indentured to servitude until they have assimilated and can be trusted but women and children assimilated immediately they'd marry the women and children adopted brought up to practice that culture customs..... That scot-Irish girl that was ambushed as revenge was assimilated but hee parents and older siblings who couldn't be trusted or assimilated were murdered the older children was killed because they've spent life as a European and couldn't be trusted and would be much harder to assimilate this is how many native American and African tribes operated they had no idea of the barbaric slavery white people practice and developed they just wanted to get rid of the enemy which they could gain protection for their tribe from slave traders so they opted to sell a useless prisoner of war this not for all majority fought off the slave raids its so much i can give on this subject

[@violetdivinespiritualreadi1824]

What surprised the Africans is how ruthless Europeans were they didn't think they kill off entire tribes cause Africans wouldn't wipe out a weaker tribe out they'd give them that mercy so Africans truly weren't prepared for the evil killing machine Europeans a few nations knew better to not underestimate the length an enemy would go to and some nations won and fought back and matched Europeans war tactics and that got them praise like in the hatian revolution Europeans said they've never seen black people fighting so ferociously

[@dellingson4833]

@@violetdivinespiritualreadi1824 wrong

[@dellingson4833]

@@violetdivinespiritualreadi1824 African tribe mercy please tell us more.

[@andreweden9405]

The pipe tomahawk that Henry Proctor presented to Tecumseh as a gift actually still survives in a museum, and you can look it up. It's in amazing condition because it was only a short time later that Tecumseh was killed at the Battle of the Thames, so it didn't see much use at all. It's a beautiful weapon!

[@beepseatsfindingfoodtreasu8756]

Being from northeast Ohio and spending most of my life on west basin at our cottage on Pelee island I have had many years to visit and explore the sites of the war of 1812. To visualize the historical important of my state in this conflict gives me a sense of pride knowing that so many historical people were standing on ground I stood on. And when I'm on the lake heading to Cedar Point. I pass through the very spot where the battle of Lake Erie took place. I look over to the monument for Commodore Perry and picture the smoke and cannons on a now, quiet and peaceful lake. Ohio is now a beautiful and peaceful place to live. But it's infancy was anything but. I do still feel remorse for the first Nations that called Ohio their home. To this day there's large regions of the state where they lived that are scarcely populated. In every account of the 1812 war we hear,. What if Brock,. But I ask, what if we, would have talked to Tecumsa and really listened The speculation is always twords the relationship with the British. But what if we would have chosen to share this land in peace? I think the outcome would have been completely different from what it is today. That's the interesting aspect of history. One subtle change can rewrite the future. Thanks for a fantastic video. Very well presented.

[@WGTEPublicMedia]

We are happy you enjoyed this video!

[@bethbartlett5692]

I remember this subject in both High School and College. I kept taking History as an elective and when reviewing my credits for my last semester and prepping for graduation, Dr Guy, my Advisor was like, "Well look at you, ya got enough History credits for a Minor!" We both lol, neither of us expecting that at all. Majors: Journalism, Sociology Minor: History Now, After it again, Ancient History - through Yale University. Exceptional Professor. Exceptional experience. Never stop Learning. I'm 58.

[@acgillespie]

*Well, lookie at you*

[@punkrockredneck5563]

That’s cool Beth ... You seem interesting

[@bethbartlett5692]

@@punkrockredneck5563 History is interesting, in this subject, I'm another Student. But we each do have our uniqueness. Best Wellbeing

[@bethbartlett5692]

@@acgillespie ...and also you

[@punkrockredneck5563]

@@bethbartlett5692 I totally agree with my 8th grade education 🏴‍☠️😁

[@mikerubin22]

should be mandatory viewing for all students; thank you so much for uploading this

[@sojournsojourntraveler1203]

Yes as well as Further understanding of the times . The lesser magistrate doctrine & ORGANIC LAW 1) The “Declaration of Independence”; 2) The Article of Confederation; 3) The Northwest Ordinance; and, 4) The Constitution of the United States. The Organic Laws of the United States of America can be found in Volume One of the United States Code which contains the general and permanent laws of the United States. U.S. Code (2007)[1] defines the organic laws of the United States of America to include the Declaration of Independence of July 4, 1776, the Articles of Confederation of November 15, 1777, the Northwest Ordinance of July 13, 1787, and the Constitution of September 17, 1787.[

[@deerobinson557]

Yeah it keeps the illusion going of the brutal genocide that actually happened to Natives by the invading Euro-Americans.

[@plutoniusis]

Tecumseh was a great warrior, great mind and he has hearth for his people he stand for, fearless human being who give his life away in order to keep hope of freedom ...

[@TylerSane5]

Yeah I love learning about him! I live in a small town in Ontario Canada there's signs and stuff put up around here because Chief Tecumseh passed through here and also the underground railroad did to!

[@chrissmith2921]

To bad the fire water got him .

[@spiritfinedetailingsouthba1047]

plutoniusis he is part of my family..!

[@1950Chimaera]

@Marrowbones The reason he leaned a bit more toward the cause of his own people and not a champion of white people was because the white people had a LOT more land everywhere else in America BUT where Tecumseh was. He was pissed they wanted his people's land also. He only fought for his own land, which of course made sense to him.

[@1950Chimaera]

@Marrowbones How would you not believe his desire to fight the white people was not a result of the white people's manifest destiny creedos that took the native Americans' land. He didn't fight with other NAs, he united them.

[@PatrickShepherd216]

Great historical documentary

[@austinewillams1119]

Good afternoon Patrick, How are you doing today??

[@craigkdillon]

General William T. Sherman's father admired Chief Tecumseh so much that he named his son after him. General Sherman's full name is -- William Tecumseh Sherman.

[@austinewillams1119]

Hello Craig , how are you doing today??

[@craigkdillon]

@@austinewillams1119 I am doing great. What's up with you, Austine?

[@austinewillams1119]

@@craigkdillon I’m doing grate 🤗 how was your day ? I think you’re busy all day

[@austinewillams1119]

@@craigkdillon hello 👋 how are you doing today babe

[@DirtyDickson82]

Thank you for a great documentary. 👍

[@RandomlyAnimated]

Informative

[@badguy1481]

Great Video. History not available anyplace else, at least that I'm aware of.

[@garygillespie3629]

Read "The Frontiersman" by Allan W. Eckert! Great read. He also has a book on Tecumseh as well as many other areas and tribes! Great author and great history taken largely from the Draper Manuscripts!

[@PeggyJame]

“ When I hear the mournful sound Sometimes in the water; sometimes in the fire”

[@prestonsmith4836]

Hi there.. how are you doing? Hope you’re fine and staying safe?

[@victoriaalvarez1557]

Great documentary. The war which preserved Canada as an independent country! God bless both kin on either side of the border. 🇨🇦🇺🇸

[@MikeJones-uc5eu]

F Canada.

[@deerobinson557]

@@MikeJones-uc5eu Go back to Europe pilgrim.

[@darlatidwell9995]

There was a dispute over who Tecumseh's mother was, and it has been said he was half white. I was looking up my ancestry and my 7x ggf had a daughter that was married to Pukeshinwa, Tecumseh's father. So if he was half white my ancestor is his mother, and if he's not half white, then she was his step mother. I had no idea ever until last year, and I'm 58, but according to all ancestry websites, Tecumseh has a tie my maternal grandfather, and I am proud of him.

[@randyrysdale852]

as you should be

[@user-ey4rc5tu4t]

Seldom acknowledged is that many of these significant American Indians were mixed blood, that they could communicate with both sides. Being American Indian was to have an American Indian mother.

[@darlatidwell9995]

V Yes. I think his mother was a native American, but there was also a question of which tribe. Muskogee or another,( I can't recall). I always realize that I am also related to both sides (via other relatives of my fathers side) that had been killing each other. I'm hard pressed to explain, much less know how that felt ,in real time while it was happening. Tecumseh's stepmother, my relative, only came to visit home once or twice and then went back to her Indian family. I wish things would have gone better back then, as most people did then, and still do. Thanks for listening. Happy trails.

[@darlatidwell9995]

Shanti Saks : Ancient-American History & Style I'm no troll, I don't make stuff up to make you angry. You made you angry. I looked up an ancestor of MINE on a website named Geni.com said her husband was Pukeshinwa and it listed their children and Tecumseh was one along the others. Alot of the other websites said the sane thing. I think she was his STEPmother, FYI !! I'm not the one who produced any of the statements made, as fact about Tecumseh's ancestry. I'm just speaking from things I've read.

[@johnandrews3547]

who cares

[@howard7689]

Tecumseh had it right. Imagine if Americans woke up tomorrow morning and realised that no government appointee or electorate past or present could negotiate or vote away, God given individual rights?

[@Sara3346]

Harrison would make such a good villain if portrayed in a modern movie.

[@granskare]

I know a guy who is a native American, his mother lives on the reservation. He lives near Gwinn, Michigan. The indians in USA were treated badly in the early part of the 18th century.

[@SireJaxs]

I'm surprise that the top comment is from a person who commented 2 days ago even when this was made in 2012.

[@RichardDevereauxEarlofEssex]

'Treated badly'? Like the Jews were treated badly by the Nazi's?

[@RichardDevereauxEarlofEssex]

@@SireJaxs Perhaps Josh, if your statements were more interesting or enlighting you might get the top spot? keep it up.

[@SireJaxs]

@@RichardDevereauxEarlofEssex Alright dude, good to know. Funny you should mention that because every time I get a notification, I immediately comment and sometimes I can top spots.

[@RichardDevereauxEarlofEssex]

@@SireJaxs My congratulations, keep up the good work,

[@benjaminrush4443]

Amazing how Colonial America thought they were promised rights to expand into the NW Territory. I do believe there was something written into the Treaty of Ghant concerning the Sovereignty of the Native Americans, but they were excluded from the Treaty. William Harrison admired Tecumseh, but the emerging Colonial Nation of the USA desired the Territory regardless of the various Tribes. This War is very much overlooked and forgotten by many US Citizens. Although the British burned Washington, D.C., were very successful in the Central Atlantic States and dominated the High Sea, the Success of the US Naval Forces on the Great Lakes bordering Canada played a vital role in negotiations favoring the USA. Good documentary. Thank you. Watch & Enjoy.

[@TheIceman567]

Where are you from?

[@benjaminrush4443]

@@TheIceman567 Besides my mother's womb (Joke), I was born and raised in New England. Why?

[@TheIceman567]

@@benjaminrush4443 just asking

[@kirkmarrie8060]

Excellent presentation! Thank you. Just subscribed.

[@prestonsmith4836]

Hi there.. how are you doing? Hope you’re fine and staying safe?

[@billstonesmith9231]

William Henry Harrison was quite a hero and also quite a dad still fathering children into his early 70s I believe -

[@redjirachi1]

That's John Tyler, his VP/successor

[@johnries5593]

Harrison died at 69, so no. And while he did sire ten children, his youngest was born in 1817 when he was in his 40s.

[@rogerfuller1605]

I llive on the wabsah river. In vincennes about. 1/2 mile for Harrison's house

[@jeffchilders236]

In Chillicothe Ohio they have the outdoor drama Tecumseh if you're that way that's a great great show A'ho brothers and sisters

[@ohioagainsttheworld676]

yeah it's actually pretty badass

[@KW-bf2qo]

Thanks for putting this together. This was quite interesting. I love Oliver Hazard Perry! Really awesome bad ass in history.

[@Eddythebeast666]

I am sorry for the pain you endure. So live your life that the fear of death can never enter your heart Trouble no one about their religion; respect others in their view, and demand that they respect yours Love your life, perfect your life, beautify all things in your life. Seek to make your life long and its purpose in the service of your people. Prepare a noble death song for the day when you go over the great divide. Chief Tecumseh

[@dondressel4802]

Eddythebeast666 now that would be great advice to everyone now days

[@pauleddy1910]

stand in awe of the burden and hardship that others carry or sit in judgment of how well that load is carried witch path brings you closer to spirit or family or anything good

[@Eddythebeast666]

@@andrewmoll7366 Sure... or Allah Or Buddha or any of the other 3000 gods humanity worship... Its still a good idea to lead a worthy life... If Your God offers you a Be a scum bag with out consequences card, probably a scum bag of a god...

[@gpwcowboy]

Thanks, but Tecumseh was never a chief but a warrior.

[@Eddythebeast666]

@@gpwcowboy Correct... I just Copy/pasta the thing... There are questions as to him ever saying it as well... History often gets embellished but in this case I think it fits. Native Traditions often do so like the Blue glow reported from the edge of his sword... Family tradition. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Richardson_(author)

[@tonylo.6766]

and in the end no one really gains anything but a memory , nostalgia....

[@JStryker7]

Except in the end, territory and resources were gained

[@afx935]

@@JStryker7 And lost. The British lost a good deal of what could have been their territory, and their long held geopolitical aims of containing American expansion. That is what the Quebec Act of 1774 was all about to begin with.

[@carolynsaunders5153]

Let's pray for them and all people

[@prestonsmith4836]

Hi there.. how are you doing? Hope you’re fine and staying safe?

[@johnwgrossiii6647]

It’s very simple it’s “ALWAYS BEEN ABOUT THE LAND & STILL IS TODAY”...

[@bdoon51]

This comment is on the money. In North america it still goes on. ever since the first land developer got the first American (Native american) drunk and had him make his mark on some paper he did not understand.Unfortunately developers continue to rape the land for profit. Some places like California sadder than others that so much natural beauty is now cookie-cutter housing, highways, strip centers, fast-food restaurants, etc. No woder Europeans look down on us.

[@aylbdrmadison1051]

@Doug Bevins : Is that your mouth or an anus? I can't tell the difference there's so much BS spewing from it.

[@jimplummer4879]

to our shame , yes.

[@RichardDevereauxEarlofEssex]

@Doug Bevins Not all Empires, We just changed ours to The Commonwealth, the Queen is still head of state of the Second Largest country in the world and an entire continent (Australasia) and 50 odd other countries and Dependencies around the world.

[@dn2ze]

Coming from First Nation Native of Canada of Treaty 8 which were sign in 1899 and still standing, naw it’s America’s fault by lying in the first place. Guess the real bad guys were the blue coats not the red coats. Kinda hard looking at red coats as bad guys knowing Canada still has treaties with indigenous people of Canada, now can America say the same?!?

[@jaj-zs5oj]

God I love KZbin. There is so much info on here and you don’t even half to read.

[@tracishea5053]

Then again, you *have* to read in order to be literate.

[@conveyor2]

@@tracishea5053 Those who "half to read" read only odd or even numbered pages...save time that way.

[@tracishea5053]

@@conveyor2 😆

[@charlestonsc96]

ja j we’re all a little bit dumber for reading this haha 😂

[@gpwcowboy]

Or half to smell either

[@HH-pk2wh]

Great history

[@timmyjones1921]

Wonderful & Very Educational This Video Was / Is .

[@guitargeorge1874]

I love Native American ideals. The idea that this land belongs to its children, all of us. For Tecumseh to state that he can't sell what isn't his and that the land already belongs to both the red man and the white man. In return, respect the land mother nature has given us. Such beauty and respect. What an argument. "Why not sell the air, the sea, and the earth?" Only to be rebutted with, "If you natives were one of the Same children of mother earth, than you would all be of the same tribe speaking the same language." What tiny minded thinking. Being white myself, our past is embarrassing. Even some shit today is ridiculous (that goes for all races these days though. A lot of selfishness going around and true values of significant notoriety lost. Way too materialistic as well). I don't blame Tecumseh for denouncing and rejecting those bogus treaties of the past. It's already been proven that we are not true to our word. We could all learn a lot from our Native American brothers. They are truly in touch with nature and the balance of the universe and of life.

[@kristinal2265]

Guitar George Thank you for your comment! I’m glad to see that some still have the open mind to understand. There are higher laws and higher rights that are in the hearts of all man. We all have this understanding within us. Written law tried to break it, but it doesn’t hold weight against the higher law. All men have the right to life and all that Mother Earth provides, not to be owned, but to be borrowed during our lifetime.

[@repetemyname842]

GG: Another oft repeated myth. Tribes were absolutely brutal to each other for thousands of years before any white man showed up, taking land and slaves from each other on a regular basis.

[@familytreenutshistorygenealogy]

Love this history! We are trying keep this history alive in our videos too! Especially Appalachian!

[@deerobinson557]

You are trying to keep the lies going.

[@familytreenutshistorygenealogy]

@@deerobinson557 Haha, yeah… that’s what we are doing. Not sure what you are referring to but history is history, even when it’s uncomfortable.

[@mikelowrie8957]

Very good

[@kindafoggy]

True enough. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Strong feelings from close to the heart, though.

[@K131399]

how can we ever get anything even resembling progress in regards to understanding these times when left wing loons have completely revised the history?

[@deerobinson557]

@@K131399 probably the same way we have people who tried to overthrow our democracy, who think they are the real Americans because they worship a rich boy con man.

[@K131399]

@@deerobinson557 So in 2021 after the left has completely revealed itself to be beyond insane in every way........you're still on the 'orange guy bad' grift? Just for laughs, does your little birdbrain think it's possible for a country of 350 million to 'find' 60 million new votes from just 20 years prior for Bush v Gore ? And when you regurgitated 'rich boy con man' why did you leave out 'white'? You know the people who develop your opinions lassoed you in with almost comical racism right? lmao Pretty cool though how your betters cajoled you into swapping your principles from being anti-establishment to an active wind-up-doll for the super-rich elite racists who actually laugh harder at you than we do OUCH lol

[@terrygrossmann2295]

A myth that has been passed on, and many people still believes. Tecumseh loved the Wabash and Tippecanoe river basin very much. As the myth goes, Tecumseh said a prayer to protect the area that he loved. Therefore no tornadoes will damage the Area. The city of Lafayette is in the Wabash river valley. The myth must be wrong because the city of Lafayette, Indiana has had a few Tornadoes. Luckily no real major damage or deaths occurred.

[@mikeaylward4521]

He was saying the prayer for his people....since they no longer control the area; perhaps the prayer lost its power

[@ohioagainsttheworld676]

maybe the fact nobody died was the point?

[@deerobinson557]

The blessing does not continue for the people who stole the land, and who murdered the people who were actually from the land

[@timcarder2170]

At the of The War Of 1812, there were no winners However, there was a loser. One of he greatest shames,, and the greatest sorrows, of the history of the americas, so oft repeated, before, and since.

[@7316bobe]

Better to go then than to keep struggling on until today on some reservation.

[@timcarder2170]

@Richard Dixon nope Only human empathy, morality and ethics. You, on the other hand, must be a highly vocal proponent of hitlers *"final solution"* A racist sociopath, so to speak.

[@timcarder2170]

@@7316bobe Or...England, France, and the U.S. could NOT have been genocidal liars

[@timcarder2170]

@Richard Dixon so, for curiosity's sake, is it just Natives? Or *All* non- caucasians? Do you direct intolerance towards different religious beliefs too?

[@timcarder2170]

@Richard Dixon And, how does one manage to *earn"* Morality? Superior or otherwise?

[@johnlashua3805]

Thank you for this video. So much yet to learn!

[@wiseguysoutdoors2954]

The Prophet was just a figurehead for Tecumseh. Tecumseh was the one having the visions and instructing the Prophet what to do. The Prophet was a legend in his own mind. His not listening to his brother Tecumseh was why they lost.

[@ditto1209]

Bullshit

[@MaximvsDread]

Blood and Soil. Let it go my friends. There is no point in it. It is like holding a burning ember in a closed fist. it will only ever hurt. Drop it and move on towards your end. Your end that will come. Do not be used once again by devils that only grope for more. And remember, Where ever you go, There you are ;)

[@eaglegrip6879]

Yeah....I see now. You're right. There I are, just like you said. I can see me. :0)

[@bdoon51]

I guess the World should have just accepted the Nazis or the Irish the English? Painful but progressive, right? If anyone deserves reparations it is the true Americans who took the land only from each other on occasion.

[@suziecreamcheese211]

B Doon I think you missed the point.

[@wiseguysoutdoors2954]

You cannot mention the victory at Fallen Timbers without mentioning Captain Richard " Shawtunte" Sparks, who was taken in Western PA in a Shawnee raid led by Pukshinwah, the war chief of the Shawnee, and the father of Tecumseh. Captain Sparks was raised from age 3 as a brother to Tecumseh, so he knew him well. Sparks was returned to the whites after the death of Pukshinwah at the battle of point pleasant in Lord Dunsmores war. He knew all of the Northwest Tribe's villages and trails. His scouting and knowledge was very significant in Gen Anthony Wayne's victory

[@dale2625]

This is awesome and interesting! I’m a Mountain Men fan! And go to some rendezvous to live as close as I can as they did! Thank you!

[@nickhomyak6128]

A most interesting narrative would be the man-haul and manufacturer centers means of transport./labor and instruments of delivery all to have these events occur?

[@afx935]

It was indeed a logistical nightmare...for both sides.

[@austinewillams1119]

Hello Nick , How are you doing today

[@SmewthePew]

We used to sled down the hills at fort meigs, i don't think it's allowed anymore

[@timmorris8932]

I believe it is. My brother goes back to Toledo to see his grandkids and I think he has mentioned going there to sled.

[@riverraisin1]

Do you remember when the fort wasn't there? Before they rebuilt it?

[@SmewthePew]

Not sure. 2001 was probably the last time i was there

[@riverraisin1]

@@SmewthePew I was referring to the 1970's when they rebuilt the fort into basically what it is today. Before that I think it was just a park with playground equipment and BBQ grills, if memory serves me.

[@SmewthePew]

Oh i see, i started sledding there in early to mid eighties

[@craigkdillon]

The deadly embrace of European technology and the trading posts by Indian tribes is rarely talked about. Indians would compete for trading posts because a tribe that had access to tomahawks and guns had an advantage over tribes using traditional tools and weapons. The British were favored over the French often because the British tomahawks also had a pipe bowl so Indians could use it as a calumet, or ceremonial pipe. Trading posts created a dependency relationship with the trader and the country behind it. Those tribes would come under the influence of that country. So, in the French & Indian War, both Britain and France got various Indian tribes to fight for them. The Pottawatomie of Chicago area fought for the French and defeated the Iroquois a number of times. The tragedy for the Indians was that change was coming too fast, and too profoundly for them to adapt. In reading history, there was honor and deceit on both sides. But, one thing was clear - the inexorable march of technology that changed the Europeans, and the nature of their engagement with the Indians. The old Indian cultures had no chance, just as the old Celtic and Germanic cultures of Europe had no chance.

[@eaglegrip6879]

Nah...the Indians preferred the Brits rather than the French because they got used to sipping tea with their Brit buddies every day at 4 PM. :0)

[@jstreet2852]

Nor did the Indigenous People of America stand a chance.

[@kelleybryant5947]

Craig Dillon Cortez was able to get tribes to ally with them against the Aztecs.

[@365handle]

Gary Daniel that don’t make sense. Prove it, sight your sources

[@azraelbatosi]

Craig Dillon shhh youre not allowed to talk about these things....history is simple, black and white, there’s no nuance

[@Tenskwatawa3]

Grandfather ran for 3 miles saving his life & reconnecting with other militia soldiers

[@Komodokhan148]

This war is rarely ever talked about

[@theenemyofthearrogant4784]

USA: "It's our Manifest Destiny to invade Canada and reach the Arctic" The British: "Nope"

[@tracishea5053]

😆

[@FloydofOz]

USA: “let’s meet in Alaska to discuss”

[@granskare]

we have a Prophetstown in Illinois :)

[@korkee1111]

Prophetstown in Illinois is named for Whitecloud a respected prophet that may have betrayed Blackhawk when he asked him to come to Prophetstown from the Mississippi.

[@jude8223]

Tecumseh knew that all the Indians had to all be in agreement or what had happened in his childhood would happen again. The Shawnee land was given away by treaty by another group of Indians with a mark on a piece of paper. Never again could the Shawnee regain that land, or even set foot in it …which another tribe gave away without even asking!

[@outlawandoutdoorstv9901]

Mawmee river great walleye fishing

[@michaelbean4922]

As a Brit who loves American history and has travelled widely in the US and Canada I find it fascinating how a nations historic myths develop over the years to become "fact". To Americans the war of 1812 wins the North West for the USA defeating the tyrannical Brits and their Native American Allies. To the Brits the war is a footnote to the Napoleonic Wars which really was a battle for survival against a real tyranny who wanted to conquer Europe. To the Canadians, the resistance by the very few British regulars, Canadians and Native Americans prevented the land hungry US from conquering what is now Canada and adding that vast territory to their own empire.

[@TheIceman567]

Yes that’s very true as an American who’s fiancée is British and my daughters the same goes in Europe too.

[@redwater4778]

The revolutionaries broke the treaties that the Brits had made with the natives. Many natives moved into Canada after where the Brits granted them land.

[@soulvaccination8679]

It all revolves around Britain and the people that longed to be free from Britain and its dominance on the citizens freedoms.Especially religious freedoms.

[@jasonshumate6456]

To the Americans, it showed that the Native tribes couldn't be trusted & that living together wasn't going to happen. I certainly hope William Harrison is mentioned, he was vital in defeating Tecumseh. His respect for his opponents is why he survived, his men slept on their Rifles with fixed Bayonets. They were attacked @ 5am.(early on) We struggled as a nation. But we learn, then forget,relearn & repeat. American= 53%British 32%Scottish 12% Welsh 1% German 2%Basque. I am proud my Heritage is of the British Isles, when you think of the Amazing men with the Courage to sail off into the unknown and face it is why Western Civilization exists, when you look at a map, see the size of those Islands. its even more impressive.

[@alwilson3204]

It's just dandy how you 'love American history' so much that you can force yourself to do very little but criticize it,' bravo ol' chum.

[@79tazman]

Chief Tecumseh was correct they were willing to share the land but not to sell because the Natives at the time did not sell anything because everything was shared no one tribe owned any land.

[@afx935]

Uh, no. The bought and sold (what was used as currency is another matter) goods just like anyone else, and had adapted pretty strongly to "White" trade goods. That was what the whole "Lets get back to nature" movement at the time was all about to begin with.

[@jamessanchez2486]

We're not all human. Most of us will never leave the grave. Copyrighted jamo509

[@slydawg798]

Why does Tecumseh look like Andrew Jackson? No way he looked like that. Great documentary.

[@perrywhite2856]

The very heavy subtitles block the picture and they don't keep up well with the dialog. Annoying and disappointing!

[@7316bobe]

Hi Perry White. When I downloaded the video to watch later the download did not record the subtitles. I am much happier now that the stupid subtitles are not covering things up. I have never seen such silly BIG subtitles used before.

[@c.l.freeman7654]

@Boy Gayfellow that's exactly what I did lol

[@Tycowiz]

Interesting documentary but the music when used is a bit over powering and at times irritating.

[@jdsalinger3731]

Tam. Woodwind is killing me

[@susanhampson446]

In now Hamilton Ontario are the remnants of the original 1813 Burlington Heights earthworks. There is a smaller Plaque: From here on 07 June, 1813, 700 Regular, Militia and Indigenous in the night attacked the 3,500 American troops in their night camp at Stoney Creek. After the rought the American Army were chased back to Niagara.

[@jessarellanes6648]

I like this

[@TheVeek192]

Change is the fabric of life. Roll with it.

[@azraelbatosi]

vee kay or be rolled over.

[@afx935]

Re: Tecumseh. Great Warrior? Not so much. At best his tactics were standard "Injun," and he actually only fought/commanded in three battles. One was a brilliant classical ambush (Brownstown), one he fought hard, but has his a## handed to him where he took perhaps 1/3 casualties despite at least matching, but probably outnumbering his opponent (Monguagon). His last being total and utter defeat. As for his "Confederation" it was mostly a loose conglomeration of co-belligerents. One of the myths is that it was Procter's retreat from Malden that broke the Confederation. Actually it fell apart before the Battle of Lake Erie, because of internal Indian unhappiness with Tecumseh's leadership. Fought for "his people?" Well Tecumseh's "people" were the Shawnee, and well, they did not hold to well to him, and the Shawnee almost to a man sided with the Americans. Neither was he the leader of the Shawnee...although he made that claim, and that was his desire...(he was actually from a "disinherited" clan whose leadership had passed to other clans after Fallen Timbers and the Treaty of Greenville). Although he did have a more modern view of the good treatment of prisoners (one of the major issues he had with more "traditional" Indians, especially the Pottawatomie), he had no problem and made liberal use of political assassinations for years before the war of any Indian chiefs who gainsaid him, or were "pro-American." Tecumseh was great in many ways, but he was no saint, and barely competent, but would as Richard Johnson would later remark, made a good politician (in Washington, or even London).

[@jasonshumate6456]

I was just going to say, William Harrison destroyed him in every way, while others caved and folded, Harrison wrecked that ass.

[@jamesgoldstien1468]

MY FAMILY TREE IS FULL OF THIS HISTORY~ LETS WORK MY FAMILY TREE ON FINDING YOUR ROOTS SHOW !!!

[@robcochran6213]

The most important lesson Britain learned was that the best way to defend Canada was to accommodate the United States. This was the principal rationale for Britain's long-term policy of rapprochement with the United States in the nineteenth century and explains why they were so often willing to sacrifice other imperial interests to keep the republic happy.

[@inazuma-750-w]

That's the thing as a Brit I don't get about this American history telling angle,Yanks don't suddenly become yanks and cast of family ties with britain or canada that easy,Americans still speak the same language have the same values, most of all the settlers are Brits,the guys who wrote the constitution were all a bunch of rich brits who didn't want to put any money towards the cost of the french and indian war and better understood the wealth to be got from seperating from the crown, this conflict is very british it's really like a civil war, we comeback in 1812 to see if you yanks had had a change of mind,we love ya so much we just wanted to make sure you hadn't traded one bunch of tyrants for another, think of the english war of the roses,it killed hundreds of thousands of englishmen fighting on either side but now we are all mates again .That's why we invented cricket ,ice hockey,rounders(base ball with shorter bats) rugby, see we don't see you as foreigners over here your still in our crew along with the aussies, canadians, scott's irish, new zealanders ,you just have a very distorted view of it all being on that big continent Ha Ha, Yanks! you gotta love em'

[@robcochran6213]

​@@inazuma-750-w Let me help you with the mindset of an American back then towards Britain. It's true that many of the founding fathers were a bunch of rich guys who wanted to separative from Britain for their own interests financial as well as others but the fact was that the average colonist at that time had mix feelings about colonial rule. A good film that shows this is Last of the Mohicans. (The Patriot is a mess and exhibits more Mel Gibson's Ausie dislike of the British, though Banastre Tarleton was a fucking bastard) They didn't dislike British, they disliked the Crown and the British army. The Crown had open contempt toward the colonies, the British army (known to be so friendly with people like the Irish, right?) were belligerent and warlike toward colonists. Where to you think the word Yank comes from? It was a insult that the British army invented - a Yankee Doodle Dandy, in other words a fool who thinks he's well dressed. American embraced the word Yank and flipped the meaning. But as far as their feeling toward Britain the country, think of the relationship as one between parents and teenagers. As some point when you grow up you get sick and tried of being told what to do and you're like hey bugger the fuck off mom and dad please leave my apartment as I want to do my own thing. The American Revolution was also an American civil war with brothers fighting brother and this was exhibited as far more bloody and vicious as in the massacre of loyalists at Kings Mountain. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Kings_Mountain As for the War of 1812, the British navy did force that war by taking sailors off US ships for impressment. By 1812 there were no Americans wanting the Brits back in the country. That ship had sailed by 1782. Yes you brushed us back at annexing Canada and you did burn the White House but you got a proper ass kicking in the battle of New Orleans. As for now.....well the UK isn't Britain no more than Russia is the USSR. We're simply cousins and rarely disagree. But I'm always reminded when this subject comes up of that scene in The The Great Escape when the American celebrate the 4th of July with homemade moonshine shared with their British co-capturers. Tipsy British officer James Donald: To the colonies American flyer Steve McQueen: (To) Independence Tipsy British officer James Donald: How are you managing over there without us? Getting along alright are you? American flyer Steve McQueen: We seem to be getting along alright....sir kzbin.info/www/bejne/g4vWdp9phq6maZo

[@adventussaxonum448]

@@robcochran6213 You conveniently forget that the Battle of New Orleans. happened after peace terms had been signed, and therefore had absolutely zero effect on the course or outcome of the war. Canada remained British and impressment of sailors stopped when Napoleon was defeated in 1814, and it was no longer needed.

[@robcochran6213]

@@adventussaxonum448 I never suggested otherwise, I only mentioned it as the Brits got their ass handed to them by Andy Jackson. Here's a little ditty to help you remember: kzbin.info/www/bejne/jH2aiYaVbdaajq8

[@centavitagris1]

FIRST True heroes?????? I think not!!! God Bless Native America!

[@baugh3162]

"god bless Native America" smh

[@stephaneramirez3847]

Tecumseh was truly the heroe of this era by far.

[@andypanda4927]

Unfortunately, he was on the losing side. I wish it had been an inclusive culture, rather than a bunch of bigots, adding the amer-indians. What is done is done.

[@noreannehveil335]

Wish I could find some of the music used in this doc.

[@brianmitchell4009]

Amen

[@louiserose2609]

Named my dog Tecumseh's Sherman, great man against impossible odds!

[@deerobinson557]

You named your dog Tecumseh's Sherman? So who did you name him after, Tecumseh or Sherman?

[@louiserose2609]

@@deerobinson557 William Tecumsh Sherman was the Generals name...my dog was named after both of them!

[@deerobinson557]

@@louiserose2609 Please I'm Shawnee, I asked because evidentially you named your dog after Sherman, Tecumseh's Sherman.

[@mjghouston]

So Harrison got permission to to invade prophets town , but then they said they got attacked first by the Indians .... Hmmm . I'm calling bullshit lol

[@mikemc7839]

Ah... english empire

[@Bonzi_Buddy]

Are you an expert in history that has actual proof of your claims of "BS" or are you just a lousy product of a shoddy public education system that just assumes things without any ability to back it up?

[@deerobinson557]

@@Bonzi_Buddy Hey Einstein, it doesn't take an expert in history to realize that they are telling the side that makes Harrison look like less of an asshole than he was.

[@zduke5979]

@@deerobinson557 they said he decided to attack and burn the town, where are they trying to not make him look like an asshole? The natives had scouts that probably spotted the large army who couldn't move stealthily like the natives.

[@johnbaldock6353]

It Never Surprises me when American History says "They" are Always right and Everyone else is Wrong! 😱

[@brianwilliams9813]

What did everyone forget who Cormplanter was ? He kept the Senaca out of the wars and his descendants still live on the land he fought to keep

[@nauniwhitewave-runningmout4526]

I am Seneca Iroquois, we did NOT get to keep our land, my great grandparents with their parents were put on a reservation called the 6 nation's in upstate NY. My grandmothers family was bought by an English family and was made to be their farm hands. In Saratoga springs N.Y. A very rich family with the last name of whitford. Many stories of her childhood she shared with me. Sad as is was for her and her family when he died she was free and NOT broken in spirit!! I still miss her she died in 1981 at the great age of 103.

[@nauniwhitewave-runningmout4526]

By the way Chief Cornplanter is my ancestor.

[@brianwilliams9813]

@@nauniwhitewave-runningmout4526 oh what I meant was that they still live in western New York, while every other Indian tribe from the east got shipped west

[@brianwilliams9813]

@Sue Taft the 6 nations fought and bleed for the reservation still in their home land

[@brianwilliams9813]

@@nauniwhitewave-runningmout4526 that's badass

[@bradleyalexander5821]

Who Knew? That’s why we need these great professionals to educate those that seek out our past. 🇺🇸

[@markkreps]

Battle of Fort Wm Henry Harrison, Pigeon Roost Massacre, Spurs Defeat weren't even mentioned.

[@hikingnazi]

Let's face it, they were very small in comparison to things like Detroit, Prophetstown, Fort Miegs, etc., etc. While I enjoy the obscure, and have visited Pigeon Roost, these are not large battles, and hence not that sexy.

[@markkreps]

At the Battle of Fort Wm Henry Harrison you have the beginnings of the "making of a president" that being Zachary Taylor. He gets a promotion out of the deal. Julia Lambert offers her self to be lowered in a well in the middle of the night get more water to keep the fort from burning down. I'm sorry that didn't mentioned either.

[@hikingnazi]

Not disagreeing with you...just not sexy enough for a one hour program. :)

[@markkreps]

If you want interested in going the "sexy route." Then why not tell about Fort Petticoat. Yes there was a women's fort. The fort and area had been abandon by the men in northern Knox County, IN therefore the women took over. There are lots of "sexy" women that could pose as the "forgotten protectors of the Indiana frontier." Also on the far eastern portion women and old men protected the area where the soldiers and militia's went to Ohio and Harrison asked them "who was protecting Indiana?" The women and old men were. So he sent them back to eastern Indiana. During that interim it was a women, boys and old men territory. There is a church build in 1812 in eastern Indiana that is still there, that had/has port holes on the second floor.

[@hikingnazi]

Sexy to viewers, not meaning necessarily women, just "sexy" topics. :)

[@punkrockredneck5563]

We use to watch these kinda films in school

[@deerobinson557]

That's why you don't know anything now.

[@lunaladracula6243]

Tecumseh and Isaac saved Canada from the invasions. I like them because they protected their people

[@jameshope1199]

The Canadian War For Canadians, the War of 1812 was the successful defence of a small colony against attack by a much larger neighbour.

[@robcochran6213]

The vast majority of British forces were in Canada. The invasion wasn't to conquer but to confront their opponent and to occupy territory that at a future date could be negotiated in a peace treaty

[@robcochran6213]

​@ Invade and capture Canada to occupy territory that at a future date could be negotiated in a peace treaty, that's what countries do when they are at war. Most likely they wanted to free Canada from domination by the British with the goal of turning into states that would voluntarily join the US union or become an independent nation. Historians David and Jeanne Heidler argue that "most historians agree that the War of 1812 was not caused by expansionism but instead reflected a real concern of American patriots to defend United States' neutral rights from the overbearing tyranny of the British Navy. In addition, eliminating the British presence in Canada would best accomplish British support for Indian raids." So lighten up Francis. PS. Why would anyone want to capture and occupy Canada anyway except if you were at war. Frozen wasteland.

[@mikeaylward4521]

@@robcochran6213 British forces in Canada were minimal; most of their forces were occupied with Mr. Bonaparte....

[@robcochran6213]

@@mikeaylward4521 Of course the majority of British forces on the planet at that time were engaged with the French, my reference is to British forces fighting against the US forces in North American

[@crowbar9566]

@@robcochran6213 No, it was just an attempted annexation. Unprovoked and unjustified.

[@Meymeygwis]

Tecumseh was one of the greatest leaders and men of all time. Tecumseh challenged Harrison to a contest of champions between them but Harrison refused; Harrison could not have taken Tecumseh man to man.

[@JStryker7]

There is a time to fall back. You can lose most of the battles but still win the war.

[@christopher480]

@@JStryker7 you are high. If you loose most of the battles, you loose the war. You may gain after a treaty is signed but thats only because the winner allows you to gain.

[@JStryker7]

@@christopher480 you really need fo learn your history

[@tarasbulbas1340]

@Jim Hope And were responsible for every massacre and atrocity committed there.Americans account of "Winning" every battle is to have the highest body count....not hard when your fighting guys in their pyjamas.

[@gpwcowboy]

Can you imagine? Hand to hand combat between Tecumseh and Harrison. Winner take all the land west of the Allegany mountains. I'd roll everything on Tecumseh.

[@Jim-sb6wz]

We won the War of 1812 by surviving. We had many naval victories including on the Great Lakes and at Plattsburgh. Jackson stopped GB from taking New Orleans and taking our territory.

[@JohnCampbell-rn8rz]

You lost the War of 1812 by not conquering British North America, the objective of declaring war on Britain while the Brits were busy with Napoleon. The Battle of New Orleans was meaningless, fought a month after the Treaty of Ghent was signed, ending the war.

[@Jim-sb6wz]

The treaty had been completed but not ratified. If Jackson had lost New Orleans GB would not have approved the treaty they would have kept New Orleans.

[@JohnCampbell-rn8rz]

@@Jim-sb6wz Historical woulda, shoulda, couldas are only good for one thing, selling beer.

[@Jim-sb6wz]

Fact we kicked ass at New Orleans.

[@Jim-sb6wz]

Against the same troops that beat Napoleon.

[@FederalBureauofInvestigation24]

What’s the intro song?

[@droond9897]

Who did Tecumseh’s people conquer and take the land from?

[@wjriii2797]

Oh, shut up.

[@droond9897]

WJR III thats a great response you are so intelligent

[@NRH111]

Confederation meaning a diplomatic linking of tribes or peoples, granted they did fight wars but never took land mostly property and slaves mostly women. Your point has zero merit, the native americans didnt not have the same views of empire or land ownership that the europeans did. If you listened to the first 5 minutes of this video you would have heard his view on land ownership and sale

[@scottmallender2104]

They stole their land from other Indian Tribes, and so on...

[@nachodadi]

@@scottmallender2104 As well as Clovis man

[@recusantbile9829]

"The war in 1812 was fought in 1812." J.J. Evan's teacher

[@sharonlittle9416]

so far they haven't even us burning Washington

[@connoroverall580]

It was also originally heard of in 1812.... 🤣🤣😋😋

[@johnries5593]

I think Harrison would have been a strong President, had he lived. The story has it that he pointedly reminded Henry Clay who the President was. He was certainly a strong territorial governor and was a smart enough politician to survive eleven years of Jeffersonian rule in Washington, even though he was a Federalist appointee. And unlike John Tyler, Harrison was not an ideologue, was personally popular, and his legitimacy was unquestioned. And he undoubtedly would have not have picked a fight with Congress over the bank bill (he would have more prudently picked his battles). But how successful he and his policies would have been, we'll never know.

[@vijaynair2403]

If not for the War of 1812, we wouldn’t have hockey, Geddy Lee or maple syrup!

[@chiefpotleaf2338]

sort of accurate, my people however were making maple syrup long before Europeans showed up, so that is safe lol

[@ayatrollahali8014]

I love the name Tecumseh.

[@byronseveright]

hes a Gangster

[@QuantumRift]

You should come to Chillicothe OH and see the Outdoor Drama, "Tecumseh!"..

[@timmyjones1921]

Me to > William Tecumseh Sherman .

[@carolyn9andthecats653]

@@QuantumRift what?! Based on THIS guy? I'm not far away n would love to check that out!

[@QuantumRift]

@@carolyn9andthecats653 Yes, it's awesome. I've seen it a couple of times. tecumsehdrama.com/

[@lyndacraig4169]

"Panther In the Sky"

[@oletimerocker]

Sinnanatha was a first cousin to me, this could be why I have always had strong feeling toward the native Americans.

[@wiseguysoutdoors2954]

Panther passing across is the correct term

[@terencewinters2154]

Tippecanoe and tyler too. Alliterative campaign slogan for Harrison's presidency but it was tyler who survived.

[@johnries5593]

I think Tecumseh did have a point about Procter. His withdrawal was hardly heroic and may well have given the Americans the victory in the Northwest theater.

[@austinewillams1119]

Hello John , how are you doing today

[@jonnyenough1531]

1812... The year the bankers got revenge

[@suziecreamcheese211]

Please explain. I’m interested. Or could you recommend a book or web site.

[@cliffc2546]

But the US still failed, miserably, to annex Canada.

[@disgustedvet]

I have lived almost my entire life in the area covered in this documentary. Born in Fort Wayne Indiana , relation in Battleground Indiana where Prophets town was located then moved to Toledo Ohio nearby the Fallen Timbers battlefield where Tecunseh fought but was unsuccessful . Have many times visited Fort Meigs in Perrysburg Ohio which Tecumseh and the English besieged but could not conquer and the River Raisin Battleground near Frenchtown ( now Monroe Michigan interesting also as the birthplace of Mrs. George Armstrong Custer ) where the Indians and British slaughtered the wounded Americans . In the area now named Maumee Ohio where the British had a small fort Fort Miami and where prisoners of an aborted Kentucky volunteer attempt were held and slaughtered again by Indians . This area is very rich in American History yet very few people are even aware it exists .

[@ajp806]

I have pictures and such of all my ancestors from Indiana,there is a area named after them Spencer

[@thomasdenham2142]

My grandma and grandpa used own land right across the creek from the trail that goes to the battlefield and I used to live not far from prophets rock when I was kid miss that whole area and town

[@mitcha1065]

we're still here! lol!

[@carolynsaunders5153]

Very interesting, when I was younger, I loved to watch the old western movies with the indians and the americans, didn't realize that the indians were taken advantage of. I now see and understand what happened. Very sad how things ended for them. Those indians were courageous people . Hooray for them. Nassau in bahamas

[@austinewillams1119]

Hello Carolyn , how are you doing today

[@exarmydoc]

Tecumseh died in the Battle of the Thames. His body was never found after the Battle.

[@afx935]

Depending on whom you believe. There really is no way of knowing.

[@paulbutikofer4284]

Canada still essentially won the war of 1812, United States lost. I agree if Brock had lived things would've been different. Don't forget the Queenston Heights memorial to Brock

[@jamescrew5460]

You need to read more

[@johnbrowne3950]

United States invaded Canada and had their butts kicked back home without gaining any land. Canada wins.

[@johnries5593]

Canada won, but if the US had lost, the Old Northwest would have become a British protectorate and would probably be either part of or associated with Canada today; and the westward expansion of the US would have been slowed if not stopped. What if the British had taken and kept New Orleans, thus taking control of the lower Mississippi? Would the British have let the US keep the Louisiana Purchase, and even if so, would it have been able to hold most of it? Regardless, the course of US history would have been changed drastically. That is assuming that the British didn't decide to demand the breakup of the US as punishment for starting the war (which we did, though there was certainly provocation on the British side). The only clear losers in this fight were the Indians, and for them, the outcome of the war was catastrophic.

[@johnbrowne3950]

@@johnries5593 Yeah, it would be more civilized!

[@tarasbulbas1340]

@@johnries5593 You state provocation from Britain? I guess you mean the Impressment of sailors into the Royal Navy?..That will not hold water,the French the Spanish the Portuegese were also impressing sailors from the US.Your attack on Canada is based on a lie using impressment as an excuse.Why didnt your congress also go to war on the other countries,why just Britain?Because you Anglophile haters wanted us out of N.America..no other reason.

[@gatorsonthe54th43]

Bugoutbrian....You do have a load to share

[@jrt818]

Don't think the prime objective of the US was to annex Canada even though the idea had some support. Even at this early date the balance of power between slave and free states was becoming an issue. Annexation of Canada would upset that balance as did the annexation of Texas 30 years later.

[@benno291980]

War of 1812 really was the last time to pick sides so to speak. It was all pursuit and relocation after this.

[@deerobinson557]

Asshole, it didn't matter that you were stealing the rightful owners land?