A Beginner's Guide to Philosophy - Feat. Philosophize This!

[@CosmicSkeptic]

Get all sides of every story and be better informed at ground.news/AlexOC - subscribe for 40% off unlimited access!

[@QuestUnlocked1]

This is super cool, i'm trying it out, cheers mate!

[@cosalidra759]

He sounded like Joe Rogan. Close your eyes and listen.

[@Lowkenn_Edits]

Is there any way that you could have a Debate with Cliffe Knechtle. Would love to see it.

[@moorbilt]

*Wes Cecil* on youtube has great discussions.

[@rawan3435]

❓️Philosophy without subjective reality is dead.. and subjective reality cannot be a reality if there there’s no objective reality or God. Why would a car go to a direction if there is no destiny to reach??? So Philosophy without God is dead.

[@Guillermoyo]

I have listened to philosophise this for so many years and I never knew what Steven West looked like! His voice is the backdrop to my commute for hundreds of hours. I have learnt and been introduced to all the philosophy I know through him first. I am really pleased he is on a huge platform with Alex and he gets even more support, he deserves it IMO.

[@isiahs9312]

I know he looks like a total bro you would love to hang out with. I was picturing someone super skinny dressed like a professor.

[@MrJesseBell]

Same, Steven West is my teacher

[@patrickrobertoneill4199]

Completely the same for me 🙌🙌

[@armenkhatchatrian8748]

Came here to say the same. I can listen to him talk for hours.

[@MrsBridgette2012]

Same here 🙌

[@PlatoDragon]

As a philosophy major, I can say that Philosophize This! is the only resource that not only served as a source of inspiration even before I applied to a university, but also still serves as a valuable introductory resource in my studies from time to time. This is a highly anticipated episode, thanks Alex!

[@nietzschescodes]

if you haven't seen it, there was a similar interesting crossover not long ago. It was on the Hang-Up with Matt Dillahunty and the philosophical youtuber Kane B as a guest. Kane B.'s channel is quite interesting. Me when I was studying philosophy, a channel that inspired me (especially about the work of Hegel) was Gregory B Sadler's channel. If you don't know him, you might take a look.

[@PlatoDragon]

@@nietzschescodes Cool! I know about Kane B and Dillahunty respectively, but didn’t catch that crossover! Yeah, Kane B’s channel is a literal gold mine for a philosophy major like myself, and Matt is just a legend. Haven’t heard of Sadler tho, but will check him out!

[@irevelato]

So true. Philosophize This! opened my appetite for philosophy.

[@EmersonGreen]

He’s not just a disembodied voice??

[@TomasPetkevicius94]

My brain can't connect his face with his voice. I imagined him differently.

[@vanTersec]

Haha exactly the same for me.

[@luc_m]

Bro lowkey sounds like Joe Rogan

[@theautodidacticlayman]

That’s just what a disembodied voice looks like.

[@LagMasterSam]

A true philosopher would just be a disembodied voice!

[@big_pressy2775]

This is possibly the best beginner philosophy crossover episode ever. They are both great influences on people on every level of philosophy these days. Good shit

[@miyojewoltsnasonth2159]

Indeed.

[@deba3225]

Absolutely 💯

[@TannerCLynn]

I got into philosophy because of a random youtube suggested video "what people get wrong about Nietzsche." I had never heard of the guy but he had a funny looking mustache so I clicked on the video. The video was interesting enough that I bought Beyond Good & Evil because it was the first book that came up when I typed his name on Amazon. I was SO CONFUSED as to what he was talking about after reading the first few pages several times. I considered myself a smart person at the time and it really humbled me. I was in university so I looked for a Nietzsche class that I could take as an elective. It had a prereq I took called "Modern Philosophy: Descartes through Kant" and I LOVED it. I was mad at myself for missing out on this stuff my whole life up until then. The Nietzsche class was the single best class I have ever taken. Since then I have loved philosophy. Finding some of my favorite philosophers such as Plato, Aristotle, Aurelias, Seneca, Epictetus, Kant, Nietzsche, Foucault I all owe to that one random video on KZbin years ago...

[@allanthompson4397]

Stephen has helped me these last couple years working a boring job, I get given ideas to consider, break down and or build upon. As well as give me more suggestions for reading material. But most importantly in an environment devoid of people that want to talk philosophy a feeling of community and belonging.

[@stevesmith4901]

I must have been listening to Steven for at least six or seven years now, and this was the first time I saw his face. It felt weird to hear that familiar voice come out of a unfamiliar face. Also, it made me immensely happy to hear Steven give Alex such a glowing endorsement at the end. Steven's endorsement of Alex tells me I have assessed Alex's value as a thinker accurately. Alex, just like Steven, is one of a kind. On a side note; Alex and Steven are the only two podcasters I've ever patronized on Patreon. It's a matter of pride for me.

[@FormsInSpace]

didn't think he looked like that. it's amazing how based on a voice we imagine what someone looks like.

[@joebob-p3z]

100% was thinking the same thing.

[@kingloucifur8086]

Ironically, this is an example of Socrates' World of Perfect Forms

[@christianspanggaard]

It really is a huh moment

[@australiancomposer]

For me it wasn't that far off, except for the baseball cap. Wasn't expecting that haha

[@lonelycubicle]

Same. Thought Steven West would look like Will Robinson from the original “Lost in Space” TV show (sorry for referencing such an ancient series.)

[@BoshBerry]

My boyyyyyyy Stephen West! He genuinely changed my life with his podcast

[@TeachThirst]

My response to the Hume problem is that there is no missing shade of blue because colours are kept discrete but rather continuous. There exists a shade of blue which lies between any two shades of blue. This does not change the fact that blueness relies on an impression. To see how that is so, consider how hard it is to think of a new colour (for which there is no impression) compared to one of infinite gradations for a colour for which there is an impression.

[@jonas6120]

Alex is the gift that keeps on giving! I didn't expect to see Philosophize This! on the pod! I look forward to hearing the whole conversation.

[@humanbeing9024]

Noooo wayyy, did not expect this!! Two guys who really are responsible for initiating me into the world of philosophy - what an unexpected joy!!! Really did not see this coming and am so so excited to listen haha (Parasocial relationships are real lol)

[@juliettepage]

I've never watched Philosophize This before but Steven comes across as such a knowledgeable and intelligent guy. He needn't be so humble about his lack of "formal education" because it is clear that he is passionate about philosophy and understands much more than some who have graduated university with a degree. It was so nice to be able to see you both enjoy each other's responses and talk about something that is of deep interest to you both. As someone who would like to explore philosophy further, this has given me useful advice on how to get started. Thank you for bringing it to my attention Alex. :)

[@liamoclery7636]

As someone who was 100% hostile to exactly the stereotypes of philosophy described here- I’m seriously considering taking proper college courses following this video. I’m not a fan of amateur philosophy-tube, but those exact pretenses were addressed here. You’re right, I probably haven’t been giving philosophy a fair shake.

[@kaironanmusic]

I don't usually do this but I have to take a minute to appreciate and compliment this collaboration. I've been listening to "Philosophize This!" for years and never say Steven West's face until now. I'm only thirty seconds in and my sympathy levels have already increased. I'm a huge fan of your work and to now have a face to the voice only makes it more entertaining. Alex O' Connor. I only watched the debate with Jordan Peterson last week and you immediately got my attention with the way you maintain posture throughout a discussion. The level of composure at your age is truly inspiring and I hope the world may enjoy the privilege of your work. Now let me enjoy this...

[@zachr755]

I love Steven West so much. You have no idea how excited I was to see my two favorite philosophical creators collaborating in my feed. Thank you Alex!

[@Lmaoh5150]

Oh this is a nice surprise! Philosophize This! was my intro to some of my favorite thinkers

[@aestheticallyirrelevant3081]

I've just recently completed my Philosophy Degree and I cannot understate the role Philosophize This has played in preparing me for tbe ideas that came up throughout my time - if you're reading this, thankyou and keep up the amazing work

[@Acceptablehandleaheada2.-_]

Intellectually laziness is an uphill battle for lots of people myself included. This stuff is definitely relevant.

[@Gurkenklemme]

Holy shit, that's my dream!! Thank you both. favourite philosophy podcasts combined!

[@GiannisCoolDog]

Philosophize This! got me into philosophy and I’m forever grateful. Thanks for having him on the show :)

[@danielcookson1270]

I literally yelped with excitement when I discovered Alex had interview with Steven West. A voice I’ve listened to for so many years, now has a face! He is such a humble guy with infectious passion for philosophy. I think this is such a wonderful interview. Thank you Alex. ❤

[@victoriismine4770]

So did I; quite literally ran into the other room to show my husband and we both immediately started watching it 😂

[@kredonystus7768]

This is one of the best guests Alex has had. I'll definitely be checking out his channel.

[@doyle6000]

me too

[@UnrealatedContingency]

Dude Alex has been killing it!

[@Flaakk]

The 15 minutes between 10:00 - 25:00 are a great demonstration of Steven's ability to present persuasive arguments in a down-to-earth way that resonates with most people. What a great guest!

[@cherrakmohamedamine970]

steven had a huge impact on my life in a specific period of my life, I also adore his way of talking about philosophy as a human being trying to think and learn and understand rather than an academic who's trying to vomit all the informations you don't know, I love these two people, thank's alex

[@BeerPatio]

Clicked on this so fast. Mr West from Philosophise This were my first philosophy podcasts to get a bearing in the subject. Excited to listen on the long drive 🎉Rawls Rules for life! Lol

[@JoelHenleyMusic]

Epic crossover! Philosophize This! was my introduction to so many ideas and thinkers over the past few years! Steven has a fantastic way of breaking down even the most complex ideas, and he seems like a genuinely humble guy. Very glad to see him team up with Alex, and I hope to see more from these two!

[@chemquests]

I’m so glad he recommended reading Sophie's World as a primer. It’s a lovely book. I remember really enjoying this book when I was younger. It provided names and brief introductions, and I used it to guide me in who to look up.

[@Intrepid_Elder]

Just finished Camus’ The Stranger based on your recommendation - it definitely made it into my top 25 Brain Changers Book List. The valiance with which you protected the plot was commendable and persuasive! Keep up the good work Alex!

[@adrianzandi319]

This interview has been long over due! Steven West has been in drive to work for years. His doing a public a service a true great educator of philosophy. Great interview!

[@hughmanetti1908]

Steven really does talk that fast!!! I’ve watched over the last year, some videos multiple times in order to take in the understanding that is in each. I really enjoy his efforts to bring philosophy to common folks like me. I’ll be watching from now on, no doubt.

[@willytingles]

I listened to Philosophize This! pretty much every day as an undergrad and as a grad student during my long commutes. HIs work contributed immensely to my intellectual development. So pleased to see Steven on Alex's show! I hope to see him doing more talks like this.

[@install_gentoo.]

I absolutely love Philosophize This! What a banger quest

[@purplepeach96]

Fantastic conversation! I wanted to mention that in terms of learning in general, The Great Courses are an amazing resource. They are typically lecture sets that come in video and audio formats. The lectures are created by distinguished university professors and subject matter experts that are usually great at communicating with others.

[@oldpal2678]

Loved the padcast. When Philosophise This complimented Alex at the end it was so wholesome ❤😊

[@Suplex479]

About what you said on Hume, I believe it's not truly a counter example, I'd argue that the "missing shade" is still derivative from the impression of other shades of blue. If you have a concept of dark blue, and a concept of white, or of brightness, you could therefore probably imagine light blue, even without seeing it. But it's still based upon previous impressions

[@PianoDentist]

I have been listening to podcasts since the early days, but weirdly never come across Stephen's podcast, but I have now. Thanks Alex and thanks Stephen!

[@unclesamshrugged2621]

Steven West is a treasure. He's so accessible, incisive and inspiring -- a tough combo to stick the landing on!

[@Adaerus]

I didn't read Hume but the idea that everything we know comes from empiricism resonates with how I see things. However, I would use the word experience rather than empiricism as empiricism seems to exclude the conclusion derived from sense-experience. Besides that, experience is not only about the individual but the cumulative experience of all human beings that participated to the accumulation of knowledge anyone of us currently have access to. So in this sense experience is a collaborative effort and knowledge is a result of that. Also, neuroscience points to the fact that the difference between hallucination and reality is the sensory input. So everything we know has to be a neuronal pattern but the neuronal patterns that are deemed to be real have also sensory inputs associated with them. The missing shade of blue would be something that only Hume can imagine because there is not possible to conjure in the mind something that does not have some correspondence to something that can be experienced, even if the description of the experience is wrong or inaccurate. New experiences are new arrangements of contexts of prior experiences or something that is newly discovered through sensory-experience. It should be expected that there are different gradients of slopes toward new experiences where too of an abrupt transition may be perceived as weird or odd. But true jumps in knowledge or imagination would defy determinism. I don't know what it would mean to have the brain going through weird unrelated experiences that can be called knowledge.

[@helencahn7293]

I have listened to Steven's early podcasts, and even though his delivery has changed, I value those early episodes just as much as the later ones. Steven has a world-class mind and a unique ability to frame complex philosophical thought in useful terms. I am in awe of him! Podcasts provide such good platforms for brilliant autodidacts like Steven to gain a foot hold outside of the academic arena.

[@Mr_Case_Time]

Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance is the book that got me into philosophy. It changed my life.

[@1__Alexander111]

I also saw that issue in Hume’s book. One way I tried to think around it was that he later brought up the concept of imagination; which is essentially morphing our ideas using mixing, compounding, separating, or dividing. So a man could theoretically think of a different shade of blue if they mixed their current assessment of blue with white to make that shade brighter or black to make it darker to fill in that gap. Either that or they simply couldn’t think of that color, which could be equal to me asking you to think of a new color: it’s impossible because you have never had an impression of said new color.

[@raucousriley143]

I had wondered if it were possible to had have in fact seen every shade of blue without having been conscious of it.

[@SineN0mine3]

​@@raucousriley143 we don't know if there's such a thing as blue besides the things which we imagine in our minds. In the "real" world there is only light vibrating at different frequencies. I think if you have an imagination at all, you must be able to imagine different shades of colours you haven't yet seen. Colours basically exist only so we can tell different wavelengths of light apart, and I think that ability is inate, not learned. It's probably possible that colours could be used by our minds to represent other types of information if our visual cortex was structured for some purpose other than visual processing of light. I also think there's probably a lot of things that one could conceive of that are impossible to "imagine". Imagination is the way in which we see what isn't there, but there are things like higher dimensional geometry which can't be picture by the mind's eye even when they can be understood by the rational mind.

[@raucousriley143]

Yes, but I thought that Hume was referring to what we all perceive of as seeing blue and not the actual wavelengths or whatever. I agree it's very easy to imagine different shades of colors, and that does seem the more plausible explanation. @SineN0mine3

[@nightmike7655]

Thanks to philosophise this I started to learn about stoicism, which ultimatelly played a major role in my on going happiness and content. Thank you so much!

[@DemainIronfalcon]

Well done Alex, reintroducing Philosophy is very important, always needed.

[@blossom357]

"Once an author does capture you, go and read the authors that capture them before them." This applies to a LOT more than philosophy. It's always a fun little rabbit hole to see who influenced who. A bit of a rough example: Isbaelle Allende is influenced by Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Marquez is influenced by William Faulkner. Faulkner is influenced by Sherwood Anderson.

[@Mr_Case_Time]

I do this with music. I like listening to the artists that influenced my favorite artists.

[@blossom357]

@@Mr_Case_Time And depending on the genre, you don't even have to go as far as influences. With jazz, you can be like "OK, who played WITH Miles Davis?" Just from that one jumping point, you have a crazy amount of work to do.

[@Darwin_is_my_copilot]

THANK YOU FOR BRINGING LIGHT TO THIS GUY!! HUGE FAN!

[@borderedge6465]

With all due respect to this channel’s high quality standards and formidable presence / societal impact (Alex has been on British TV and stuff!) - this conversation to me highlights a)The scholar vs b)The free thinker and open minded spirit. You can guess what resonates more with me…

[@artxofxmagic]

As a student who asked you for book recommendations at your D’Souza debate, thank you so much for helping people like me find avenues to delve deeper into philosophy. Keep up the great work! PS: After I finish reading Pensées, I’ll let you know what I thought of it!

[@Kastled5]

@1:00 I'm not high, drunk or hungry... but I'm feeling emotional at seeing Stephen on this channel. I think I might love this man.

[@shelterit]

Oh wow! Been listening since episode 3 or 4, huge fan, and now this wonderful interview with my latest intellectual crush Alex. What a treat

[@kaylab7239]

Oh my gosh! I've been listening to Philosophize This for years. This was the crossover I didn't know I needed.

[@nicolasraysimmonsgoded9435]

Great podcast. This was one of the most personally applicable and accessible long format conversations I have listened to in a long time. Thank you for the candid and humble view on how to start from two Gs of philosophy today. Golden nuggets all throughout 🙌

[@joewhittle7703]

No way you have Stephen on! Massive fan of the podcast and so happy you two had this conversation

[@tahllaz]

My first proper introduction to critical thinking and philosophy came through Alex and this channel 2020 been hooked ever since….

[@DylanGeick]

Wow, I am really struck with this man’s character. I’d heard of his show but assumed it was slightly layman for me. Now I’m thinking I’ll listen just because I find him genuine and kind. Another great episode Alex.

[@davidtaylor656]

I’ve been listening to philosophize this for about 9 years and I thank you for bringing more ears and eyes to his work.

[@fredriksahlstenglimmevi3259]

What a great colab. I've been listening to Steven West for years. His podcast is awesome.

[@ahmadnawaz6612]

omg!!!! i love this dude❤ i listen to him all the time

[@ahmadjamalmughal47]

I have listened the Plato episode of Philosophize This at least twice and still have it in my queue. I absolutely love how accessible he makes all of it. Also love a lot of other episodes I wish to get back to it soon, thank you so much for inviting him.

[@abhiseksarkar3566]

It's been my favourite podcast for many years. Thanks Alex.

[@barrow_3490]

1:03:40 Alex's mention about novels being "merely fiction" in some people's mind was my feeling until my late 20s. I thought I was only interested in scientific books, until reading The Age of Madness; it gave me feelings about poverty, industrial revolution, and war, which documentaries really never achieved.

[@Haha247haha]

OMGGGGGGG. Philosophize This has been one of the most life-changing works I’ve educated myself with throughout some formative years. I’m so glad to have stumbled upon this! Steven is a boss!

[@He.knows.nothing]

There are some really good, philosophically explorative sci-fi and fantasy novels that I recommend people to start with as well as those are genres people tend to already have vested interests in. Here are some recommendations: Sci-fi Monk & Robot series Murderbot series Neon Lightning Black Tides of Heaven Fantasy Piranesi No Longer Human The darkness that came before (trigger warning) The Just City (Socrates is literally one of the main chacters) Anything by Ursula Le Guin

[@borderedge6465]

I got hooked on Philosophize This around episode #10, about 10 years ago! Since then Steven West is not only my number 1 source of philosophy, but for inspiration in general.

[@simonrudduck8726]

Stephen West has been a constant feature in my life. His podcast is a great body of work. Through his introduction there are 20 books or so, read and loved in my room.

[@Drewgonsalvesacro]

I love Stephen Wests podcast. Truly life changing. Also a big fan of Cosmic Skeptic, and Im elated to discover this conversation today

[@NeedSomeNuance]

Omg! I LOVE philosophize this! Such a great collab!

[@vincentAhi]

This is like hearing of a Legend and seeing the Legend finally. Steph, I can't thank this man enough for how much love for Philosophy he is imparted upon thy. You are such an amazing educator. Actually both Alex and Steph. Please keep them coming Alex. Thank youuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu

[@lonepantalones8284]

Now this is a birthday present. Thank you Alex and Stephen!!

[@Sui_Generis0]

What a great link-up, listened to many hours of him, and finally have put a face to a voice

[@vegapunkrecords]

OMFG it’s Philosophize This!!! I can’t believe this crossover is happening!!!

[@fordprefect1925]

Exciting collaboration!

[@JonTonyJim]

Hi Alex, I wonder if you could maybe do some episodes about eastern philosophies like Taoism, Buddhism, Confucianism etc.? Would be really interesting to delve into a very different side of philosophy and learn more about the ideas underlying Asian cultures.

[@stretch3172]

I got a philosophy degree and am so glad I did. It’s nice to be able to reach above the mundane world and probe important questions. And the logical and rhetorical skills you gain along the journey are very valuable tools that most don’t have.

[@MrsBridgette2012]

Wow, I have been listening to Stephen West for probably a decade. Awesome!👏🏼

[@mylatahiri2572]

It's not an exaggeration to say Philosophize This changed my life. He breaks things down so well and then gave me excellent foundations to dig deeper and learn more about specific topics that interest me more. Really thankful for this dude!

[@yelsu3358]

one of my favourite episodes ever, two of the nicest guys in the field who make the subject very approachable

[@sarahleewatson]

Omg! I love Steven West And Philosophize This! I've never seen his face. This is blowing my mind 💛

[@motherg00se]

ive been listening to Mr West almost from the first days of his podcast. Bravo sir

[@franklarin8100]

Thank you both for giving us a rundown on how to approach learning philosophy. Good show.👌

[@I-am-bruno]

Thank you. ❤

[@mandibozo1294]

Love this. His was my first podcast ever. Love his work!!!

[@japexican007]

“And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God. For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified. And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling. And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: that your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God. Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: but we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:” ‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭2‬:‭1‬-‭7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

[@jessiz-]

Yet another Philosophize This! fan of a couple years. I love how engaging Stephen's podcast is - really a fantastic intro to so many ideas and thinkers. Excited to watch this collaboration, thank you Alex and Stephen ❤

[@SamiKarvinen]

If there is a single sentence that best encapsulates Alex O'Connor to me, it is that the one famous philosopher he really doesn't like is Hume and it is solely because of The Missing Shade of Blue -example. That is the most Alex thing ever.

[@ChayePhilosophy]

Thank you for everything, Stephen! I've told you a couple of times on Twitter, but I'll say it again: you changed my life. You're one of the most important people in my life.

[@simonschlegel9094]

This is my personal Avengers-level team up right here 📚

[@AntiJovian]

Steven West was my intro to seriously studying philosophy! Love his dry sense of humour too.

[@LateNitePhil]

I've been loving the PT episodes on Zizek and Byung Chul Han!

[@bmerlin376]

*Seth Speaks: The Eternal Validity of the Soul* 🦋 I first read this book over 20 years ago. 🦋 Since then, I have read hundreds more, but this mind-bending material continues to be the cornerstone of everything I know about consciousness. 🦋 And then there are the *Althar* books.🦋 This material is in a completely different category. 🦋 These books will take you to places that philosophy never will.🦋 It's material for those who are ready to graduate from the game of life.🦋 It's for the old and weary soul that wishes to finally ascend, or to remain on Earth for a while as a master.🦋 It is likely to be the last material you'll review as a human.🦋 It's impossible to describe how profound this material truly is.🦋 If you are not attracted to it, then it simply means you aren't ready for it . . . yet.🦋 It's for the old soul who is nearing the end of their incarnation cycles. 🦋 It will be your final chapter.🦋 🦋 🦋 🦋 🌲.....................🐛.................🚶‍♂................🚪🐉......................🚶‍♂......................🌲

[@nietzschescodes]

I am subscribed to many philosophical channels for many years and I had never heard of that Philosophize This! channel. Weird that youtube has never suggested it to me. I just subscribed now to it.

[@user-kq3xn3jp7m]

Let’s go, can’t wait for this. Philosophize this started my journey into thinking

[@Lousysuperior]

Oh my god I’ve been waiting for this! I’ve been listening to philosophize this for years and it’s my favorite podcast!

[@theflyingdutchman787]

One of my two favorites! I’ve been following Steven since the early days. Thank you both.

[@BilalKhan-ig2hq]

What an amazing crossover of my two favorite podcasts! Thank you Stephen for making me love philosophy!!!! ❤

[@necroslikerock]

Philosophize this! Is the reason I got a bachelor in philosophy!!! I'm eternally grateful 🙏 now please bring back the episode on Camus that you deleted from Spotify!!

[@irevelato]

Oh, wow! I’m finally really excited to listen to a podcast 💯

[@digimaster07]

Philosophize this! was my best friend in college! So happy for this collaboration