A big mistake? Ducati's new Panigale loses 35hp

[@whatever32135]

44 Teeth also called it the Panigale Supersport, which is a far more suitable name

[@tonyfreeth2559]

Kind of. Cant deny it looks a little like that in base model from the side. But the S lines single seat look different. This is purely a punt at the wssp class for racing without having to restrict the bike like they're doing now. All this good for the road press launch material is exactly what they are saying about the R9 as well

[@noblaw7595]

Panigale Supersport is a horrible name. The Multistrada V2 already had the same testastretta engine as the Supersport. They are simplifying their range and getting rid of the weird bikes that don't sell well. V2 is midrange, V4 is high-end. Simple.

[@franko-y2q]

44 teeth said Ducati had to detune the last V2 for racing so why not make a lighter motorcycle with the proper horsepower?

[@andrewtanner7741]

Tim, l think the bike you're riding (straight bars, 35 bhp less than an R1) answers all your questions. Road usability rules for most of us. Also, as a 5'8" sub 11 stone rider, light weight gets a serious thumbs up from me. Right name? Did anyone ever say a (light, low ish power) Lotus wasn't worthy of the badge?

[@johnsteel4719]

I like the idea that manufacturers are reducing the power and focussing on use for the road (says the man with three litre bikes). It should make them cheaper to insure so will hopefully attract more people to ride so all good. I would love to see more young guys and girls riding so any move by the manufacturers to help the situation is good with me

[@mwtraining4310]

Exactly, impossible to get a affordable insurrrance on a 160hp bike here in Sweden.

[@78Outlaw]

Agree Tim, the Duuuuucatttiiii should have just made it the new Supersport and left Panigale name for V4 only, and dare say give the V2 Streetfighter a bit more bhp or just drop it, as now too close to the Monster.

[@patthonsirilim5739]

yeah they should call it supersport v2 instead of calling it a panigale v2 but honestly i think its the right choice its a better entry level sports bike the v2 is really to similar to the v4 panigale.

[@xpantz]

Yep. Look what Triumph just did with the Daytona... even worse.

[@saddle8bag]

Motorsicklists have no understanding of "power." The marketing figure they like to quote you to get excited is the PEAK power. It only occurs near redline. As most of us would rarely ever be at redline on a V2 on a public road, it's completely meaningless. The V2 was originally a VERY peaky engine. Great for the track where you can keep it on boil but bullocks for street riding. If they improved the delivery of the midrange power delivery, where we actually use our engines on public roads, that would be fantastic!

[@ekspatriat]

Absolutely does not always happen near redline. Look at harley power curves.

[@xpantz]

@@ekspatriat True, but Harleys are a different kinda beast to a 700 to 900 cc sports bike.

[@allangrse617]

It got 70% of its max torque at 3000rpm, so definitely better mid range than the "old" V2

[@vincedemarzio9167]

I think Ducati was missing a real 'middleweight' engine in their lineup. Both the Testastretta and the Superquadro were derived from a SBK 1200 engine then made smaller but both were 'suffering' of lacking torque below 5k RPM (and they were also heavier). Also Ducati is a racing brand first and foremost and if the new Supersport class will require engine of this size/power there was no point to keep competing with the old 959 that was heavier than the competition and due to more HP had to be restricted. I'm really looking forward for the other bikes on the Testastretta to move on to this engine, a new Multistrada V2 and Desert X with better torque...that sounds great to me.

[@markoarkaina8656]

Similar numbers to the R9, but quite a bit more expensive.

[@MarkSmith-rs660]

This will be racing next year thats whys its called panagali. It will sell might get one myself.

[@robertyork4041]

To make the V2 (Panigale and Streetfighter) more street friendly it didn't need more power, it needed more compliant suspension, less heat generation, better fuel economy, fuel gauge and cruise control...has Ducati not delivered, even on price?

[@timrodierides]

@@robertyork4041 it needed more low-down shove too! I imagine it’ll be more economical, and if the Ohlins is anything like the setup on the Supersport it’ll be cushty!

[@Manu_Air228]

Very pretty and what I want for a bike, but I think I'd rather go for the much cheaper R9 which also does not look too shabby

[@ssmith954]

Now seriously looking at this bike: I don't do track, and this has more than enough power for the road. Cruise control is a long-overdue feature and a very very welcome addition (that was my main gripe with the Supersport). It looks fantastic. -35HP will also be good for insurance premiums, and with less weight you're not really losing much in terms of power/weight ratio anyway. Looking forward to the review, and see how the new engine shapes up over the next year in real world tests.

[@ianwarren8316]

I had the last v2 till someone in a van in Portugal couldn’t use their eyes before pulling away from a stop and hitting me from behind and writing it of! Having had it for a year and a half I was using more and more of the power where I could and I will give the new one a go but I think I am more likely to buy an newer old Panigale V2 rather than the new one! 35 HP less is a lot! And I have an ex BSB racer son and a Panigale v4 SP2 to keep up with!

[@tonyfreeth2559]

Tim, I had an R9 on order and have since cancelled and ordered a new V2S for a race bike. I am excited for the future of motorcycle racing

[@richarddoyle6680]

Same here on r9 and v2

[@MattFellowswasHere]

❤ - We sat on an R9 at the unveiling here in town and the rider triangle is, frankly, weird as fuck. I have the MT09 which is a lounge chair by comparison, as is a ZX6R or even a frigging Duc SS...you feel PART of the bike...on the R9 (and the rearsets were bottomed out) I still felt like King Kong atop the Empire State...I ASSURE YOU you made the correct choice...

[@EJK1965]

It's only a name, Babes!

[@timrodierides]

Haha I know! And I'm the last person in the world who actually thinks it's a big deal. It's just interesting that Ducati is seemingly following the market and changing their focus

[@BIBuildy]

I love it when you call me Babes!

[@bendavies6775]

@@timrodierideslightest ever Panigale or heaviest ever supersport? Probably forced for economic reasons to leave the V4 as the halo model and shift attention to shifting greater number of smaller capacity bikes

[@tim_pearson]

Although I have always admired Ducati's I have never thought about owning one, but I saw the 44teeth thing on it yesterday and thought it looked good and at 15K just about affordable.

[@patrikragnmark5307]

Spot On as a SSS driver perfect Match But that said i would love 132Cv in the SSs🎉🍀

[@danieloconnell4225]

I think you nailed it; the V2 and SuperSport didn't sell well - the V2 was too aggressive for the streets (particularly how one sat on it) with a wildly peaky dyno chart and it was seen as 'second class' to the V4 (somewhat unfairly). The SuperSport 950 (particularly in 'S' trim) was the far better road bike, but I think people resented having to pay as much as a V2 for forty less horsepower and with none of the touring capacity of a true sports-tourer - the 950S wasn't fast enough to be considered a 'real' supersport, but wasn't comfortable/toury enough to be a 'real' sports tourer. The new V2 seems to be an attempt to fix this all - it certainly looks to have a less aggressive seating position than the outgoing V2, with power more like the SuperSport. The latest V4 from Ducati is still an absolute piss missile - releasing this new V2 and dropping the old one (and likely the SuperSport) is probably a smart call... though I think the outgoing V2 looks nicer. Hyper-powered nakeds and supersports just do not seem to be selling; I've got the latest gen Speed Triple 1200 RS, and if I didn't actually track the thing, it'd be a complete waste of cash and I don't think they sold very well - manufacturers deciding to now make 'premium' sporty road bikes without unusable levels of power (short of riding highly illegally) is likely very good business sense.

[@JoshMeeks-b3l]

I think they looked hard at the Aprilia RS660 and went after that market segment. This could be an interesting bike.

[@MarkSmith-rs660]

I have a rs660 and this might be my next bike.

[@JohnJay1745]

The new V2 out-the-door costs the same as a Kawasaki ZX-10 in the U.S. Yes, the Ducati looks better, but I'll take the extra 80 or so horsepower.

[@tonyfreeth2559]

Couldn't pay me to ride a green POS

[@JoshMeeks-b3l]

Also, that's subjective to the rider. I think the Kawi looks much better than the V2.

[@JohnJay1745]

@@tonyfreeth2559 - It also comes in black!

[@future62]

Ducati has always been more expensive than Japanese brands.

[@future62]

On paper i think other the right move but the new RC 990 R is the bike that speaks to me in this class

[@prospidnick]

The saddest thing on this video is watching you having to ride through Micky bends at 55mph due to the variable speed cameras, that's why box hill has become a haven for Panigales and such like there will be even more of them now at Rikas. I'm not so sure they've done the wrong thing tbh, i have a Hypermotard 950 which has even less power, it's totally useable and a hoot and you can still buy the the bigger V4 if you so wish.

[@mrgrey9584]

Pity the prices didn’t drop like the hp figures are dropping

[@sidbhan193]

I do like the power cut tbh. 150 was a bit much for my style of riding.

[@TheOriginalCoda]

It's definitely polarised the community. Not all of us have the same mission so it's somewhat understandable. I've tried keeping up with 1000s on the track on a 120hp bike and it's no fun to be overtaken on the straights only to ride round them in the corner. Every corner. So as long as the current trackday groups are based on 'self evaluation' of skill level rather than bike power, there's no answer that I can see.

[@whatever32135]

You're wrong its not Ducati, its Ducati

[@DarR1299]

I've had a 959 Panigale and loved it. Wouldn't mind another sportbike but this new Panigale is not it. Moreover it's priced close to a S1000RR.

[@AuxesisHyperbole666]

Unfortunately rumbling and rattling usually translate to friction and transpose to wear and tear..

[@queenslander954]

But being Ducati , they’re charging more for the loss of that 35 hp , because it was genuine factory horse power.

[@vladoj9103]

Hi Tim, congratulations on what you are doing. I'm 6.4 tall and drive a Multistrada 950 S, and I really like the Super Sport 950 S, and there isn't one. where to try it in Montenegro. Could you make a comparison between the two bikes and can I drive the Super Sport as the only bike with this height? Thank you very much

[@timrodierides]

Hey! Thanks for all your comments. The Multistrada seat height is 2cm higher than the Supersport, and it has slightly lower pegs... but I think you'd still be comfortable on the Supersport. It'll give you more of a tight bend in your knees, but it's not too bad!

[@vladoj9103]

@timrodierides Thank you. I've had a Multistrada 950 S for two years now, and I'm seriously considering buying a Super Sport. Is the SS more comfortable than the bmw r nine t (I watched your test drive) because my r nine is small?

[@davecree867]

@@vladoj9103 I had a supersport for a couple of years then bought a multistrada 950s. I’m about 6’3” and didn’t find the supersport particularly comfortable, but the multistrada is great - no problem doing a 14 hour day riding across France. Just bought a ZX9R to go alongside the multi and the Kwak is more comfortable than the supersport as well.

[@vladoj9103]

@@davecree867 Thank you for the bikes comparison and shared personal experience.

[@whiskywhippet]

Less weight is a good move I think, bikers are getting older, and at 60 I would struggle to pick up my Tiger 1200. Next bike will be much lighter.

[@SarinEA]

I'm very concerned about the 950s replacement. It doesn't have an adjustable windscreen, it doesn't have as upright handlebars, it's not a sports tourer. Feels like its a step back for both camps into something worse overall. Maybe I'm wrong.

[@rlsedition]

This new V2 could end up a "camel" - not great at anything.

[@SarinEA]

@rlsedition hope not. Guess we'll see. I actually like the styling. If they split the segment into various packages like the BMW r9t I think it has the potential to be a winner but they haven't done that.

[@chrisreed3929]

I applaud any manufacturer making their bikes lighter. I am sure this v2 panigale is a far more sensible choice for the road, however, do people buy Dukes with their heart or their head?

The new panigale is actually only slightly lighter than the original 899, they just changed the way they publish the weights. New one is wet weight but without fuel, 899 is wet weight with fuel.

[@tonyfreeth2559]

899 is showing 2 different figures 193kg or 197kg fully fuelled. So proper wet. Pays to remember that the 899 was only euro 3 compliant so doesn't have a massive cat like the new V2S. But from the 176kg plus 17L of fuel in full wet the new V2S should be around 188kg

[@viktorpantazis4441]

I just do not understand how being down on one single spec, makes for an overall impression a downgrade. If there was a new V2 in the vein of the old one, it would cost about 20k. Now we got a bike at 15k that has 30hp less AND: 17kg lower weight, extensive electronics package, lower maintenance costs, street better rideability, better reliability (most likely), better fuel economy, same level of torque, better torque curve and can lap an unsuitable for it track at 0.2 secs slower than the old one. Oh! And faster more higher powered versions are going to follow. The human mind is an enigma.

[@lovinglife9711]

The new V2 doesn’t appeal to me. I much prefer the V4 package for both the Panigale and SF. The new SF V2 design is a step back in my opinion and doesn’t offer much differentiation between it and the Monster. However, I think the new Panigale V2 was a brilliant move by Ducati. From a market segment perspective they are now offering a true middle weight, opening the Panigale brand name to a wider market with a more approachable package, and there’s clear distinction between the V4 trim and the V2 trim. From a racing perspective, they’re homologating a platform that I think will offer them a more competitive package for years to come. With the new variable intake timing, they’ll have more tuning flexibility to get more power on a much lighter more agile platform. Now I do think they need to be careful from a marketing standpoint. Part of the lure of Ducati is that it is a premium exoctic product. This new design and choice of materials looks less exotic to me, not saying the fit and finish aren’t premium. It just doesn’t look like a bike that commands a Ducati premium.

[@rlsedition]

Remember what happened to Monster sales when they deleted the trellis frame.

[@BIBuildy]

They should have named it, "Stratagale Finito."

[@seongkyulim4495]

Previous ducati super sports was not very super sports bike. But new panigale v2 is proper super sports bike I think. I am happy with new panigale v2 and want to get one someday.

[@Lunchb0x7]

I dont have too much issue with the drop in HP as they have dropped the weight. The power to weight ratios aint too different. The issue I have it the riding position and front end styling. The back end is lovely and I like the exhaust which make up for the front end, but the riding position appears to be more supersport than super bike. If they hadn't of called it a panigale they wouldn't have been able to put the price as high. The trouble this bike now has is cheaper competition and watering down of its sports pedigree.

[@tonyfreeth2559]

There's a clip on option.

[@petermcgarva7207]

Sounds like it’s an ‘Italian Honda’ . The days of real Ducatis are sadly gone … rumbling L twins, dry clutch rattling 😢

[@BrassGoblin03]

Best thing Ducati did was get rid of desmo valves.

[@R2690-f3y]

Seems to me like the old 899 but slower and smaller Engine and more expensive 😳

[@Daniel-eh7iq]

Here in Belgium superbikes are completely useless on the normal roads (speed limits, trajectory control (or how do you call it..) camera's and traffic jams everywhere...). They're uncomfortable and very expensive. That's why they don't sell... You are riding a MT-10 and your average speed is about 50mph. So how many BHP do you need for that? So I get it...Ducati creates a more accessable sports bike, more like a supersport but with a little extra.

[@MattFellowswasHere]

No, it’s absolute genius. They’re building an ACTUAL motor that they can mass produce and that has 20,000 mile service intervals just like a Japanese one. The way you scale production-hell-the only way you GROW a company is to do what they’re doing right now! If your goal is genuinely taking on the R9 and the 890 (and this is a perfect time to go after KTM since they’re teetering on bankruptcy)…This is what you would do. Secondly, you just KNOW there’s gonna be very easy mods (if not just an ECU flash) to get that thing up 20+ HP more… at that point you’re murderously competitive. Lastly-the traditional “Panigale” has been a fucking good way to cook your eggs- think Los Angeles or Scottsdale Arizona in the summertime… you’re gonna overheat between stoplights. This thing actually makes sense for the United States market.

[@rlsedition]

By removing the desmo system, belt drive cams and the single-sided swingarm Ducati has created a "pretty" Honda. Remember the outcry (and lack of sales) when the new Monster replaced the trellis frame with an aluminum front subframe.

[@MattFellowswasHere]

@ - It actually IS sort of an inversion of the RC51 situation, but remember Honda playing this “we can do it (race-bred V-Twin) better than you”-set the MSRP at $11,999…or an ABSOLUTELY INSANE $20563.11 in 2024 dollars-the new Duc-how much is it going for-$15.9K or so? Even the V2S- at $18.9K-it’s STILL going to come in less than the RC was back then…with HEROICALLY better suspension and brakes-and the weight of a feather. So-even if the game really is, we can build a better Japanese motorcycle than Japan can build-the answer is YES. For the first time in a long time, and very obviously in prototype racing, Ducati actually IS the preeminent motor manufacturer in the world… we were watching a race the other day where Ducati had eight motorcycles in the GP race- would you like to guess how Ducati products finished in that race?… first, second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth…🤣

[@rlsedition]

@@MattFellowswasHere As a Ducati devotee and owner since 1982 (Pantah 600 anyone?), you don't have to convince me about Ducati's ascendency to the top of motorcycling's hierarchy. What concerns me is that they may be trading off too many brand cues in the search of higher sales volumes. In this competitive world it's difficult to create bespoke features, things buyers want because you've done things differently. We'll see if they've gone too far with that strategy.

[@MattFellowswasHere]

@@rlsedition - But as an actual motorcyclist, I don’t really care about “bespoke features”. I just want the best widget. Claudio, Gigi, Davide they’re all like gonna be seventy years old someday soon…there’s not much time left to fool around-Gigi’s chief engineer is now at Yamaha. AND-riding the original Panigale WASN’T fun- I don’t care how cool it looked. It wasn’t cool in real life- single sided swing arm, Desmo valve train and all- it was a freaking rolling space heater. They were melting fairings with those things. Jason Chinnock is all but personally responsible for Carlin Dunne‘s death. The 2025 V2 is a necessary atonement…

[@rlsedition]

@@MattFellowswasHere What in the heck does "best" mean? Different things to different people. As a SuperSport owner for several years I can tell you I don't get roasted on hot days like you do on a Panigale and I can ride for hundreds of miles without being twisted up like a pretzel. Is it better on a race track? Of course not, but I haven't done a track day for years now. This new V2 is a bit of an enigma to me and I've owned several Ducatis since 1982. When you charge premium dollars for a motorcycle one expects unique features like desmo, single-sided swing arm, on-rails handling and styling only the Italians seem to create. Well, forget the first two items; we're back to "industry standard" valvetrains and rear swingarms. How many unique items can Ducati delete before they're just prettier, more expensive Hondas?

[@brianreid366]

They lowered the power, wish they lowered the seat height instead

[@MrPagnu]

No Desmo? No Ducati.

[@ApexRadius]

The name is going to be confusing to some people. But this bike is an actual (new-age) supersport and not a sleeved-down superbike like the outgoing V2. It was designed, in part, to better fit the new SS racing rules. A 955cc V-twin versus 600 cc I-4s and 800-ish triples never really made much sense. The race PV2 had to be significantly rev-limited and that engine is quite a bit heavier. I think the uprated race-homolgation version of the new PV2 gets126 hp but it's a lot lighter than the outgoing bike. The RCR990 and the R9, being an 890cc triple, will likely still get more restrictions. And as a road bike, it'll still be relatively expensive but closer to its competitors and more usable than the old bike. It is kind of a bummer for people who liked the idea of a not-quite-superbike like the outgoing models. I agree that this bike could replace the current Ducati Supersport (Testastretta), too. Also agree that they could have called it something like the V2 Supersport or Panigale Supersport but I'm not looking forward to another tiresome sportbike namegate non-scandal.

[@rlsedition]

Ducati has deleted the SuperSport from their 2025 lineup, but I'm not so sure this V2 is a direct replacement, missing the SuperSport's higher clip-ons as well as the lack of any provisions for saddlebags.

[@ApexRadius]

@@rlsedition Yeah, agree. I really, really liked the Supersport and its general concept. An excellent road bike that you could do some touring on and still do the occasional track day. I nearly bought one but decided on another bike. The SS was just too pricey for what it is. It might make sense to offer a sport-touring package or variant for the new V2. Or, who knows, maybe we get a new Supersport based on the new V2. But doesn't seem to make sense for Ducati to continue with both platforms simultaneously.

[@rlsedition]

@@ApexRadius Ducati has had an issue trying to sell sports touring models other than Multistradas. It seems most customers would rather have the full-fat Panigale rather than any compromised version even though those riders will readily admit they don't make much sense as a street bike. Also, it depends on where you ride. If you have access to nicely paved curvy roads, the race replicas can be a lot of fun, but many of us do not have those roads. That's why I sold my MV F3 and bought a Ducati SuperSport when I moved from North Carolina to Michigan.

[@jesus2400]

Ducati is focused on gaining market share.

[@terrybrooks7140]

Hi if they had called it a supersport it would of looked like it had a price hike but calling it a panigale makes it look like it's come down in price sneaky 🤔

[@grumpsrides42]

Are manufacturers building 'real world ' bikes now? Instead of 'top trumps' bikes? Adventure bikes seem to be heading that way?! 🤔

[@richardcooper2254]

The supersport is a great bike but needed better specs. The new V2 is it.

[@rlsedition]

What "better specs" are you referring to on the new V2 versus the SuperSport. I do like the V2's lighter weight.

[@richardcooper2254]

@@rlsedition Exhaust, TFT Screen, Blipper, Engine, Wheels, Sets...

[@rlsedition]

@@richardcooper2254 I guess this is a personal choice issue. IMO the current SuperSport exhaust is fine, the latest version already has a TFT screen and the Testastretta engine works well. The things I like about the V2 are the lighter weight and availability of cruise control. What I don't like are the lower handlebars (about 3" lower) and no way to carry anything if you choose to do so. Versus the SuperSport, the new V2 trades off some practicality to look more like a Panigale, but that means it is neither a great sport tourer nor a better track bike. Now I'm sure Ducati wrestled with these issues and decided those who want a sport tourer will move to a Multistrada, but I also know many of us don't care for the adventure bike look (too agricultural). I'm happy to keep my SuperSport.

[@robertprosser6856]

£12,250 R9 makes more sense.

[@reddpill]

Other than the red paint this new bike offers nothing more than what other manufacturers in this sector. TST RS / MT09SP

[@allangrse617]

Lets wait for a test ride/review before judging it Yes?

[@mstelios4259]

So, do you think the Monster will have the same fate as the Supersport? There's no point in having two naked bikes with the same engine.

[@timrodierides]

@@mstelios4259 that’s a good point - the Monster’s always been a bit more affordable and more upright than the SFV2. But I can see this engine going everywhere now - Multi V2 and Hypermotard V2 possible

[@vincedemarzio9167]

Ducati presented the 120hp version of this engine in the Panigale and SF V2. There is also a 115hp version which I reckon will go into the new Multi V2, Desert X, Hyper and also Monster. I believe they have another presentation on the 7th or 8th haven't they? For those complaining about 'only' 120hp, the new Panigale V2 did exactly the same lap time as the old 959 V2 (with racing exhaust and not restricted as in WSSP)...so not too shabby I'd say.

[@DarR1299]

Ducati Ninja?

[@omgitsabloodyandroid5161]

Peak bike was K7

[@BN1960]

Vee Due should have been it

[@northernlefty5412]

Disappointing updates to the panigale v2 and streetfighter, both from a style perspective and performance perspective. Not a fan.

[@jorjimaco5331]

Girls bike.

[@inked-96]

Meh. With the state of our roads, constant mobile speed cameras and PC dickhead n PC plod driving their unmarked cars, it's getting less enjoyable to ride these mid to high powered bikes on UK roads. Im selling my xsr900 my xsr900 to either fund a less poweful speed twin or a touring bike so i can venture out of the UK for some long getaways and nicer roads!

[@Coddyboy1]

What bike manufacturer makes a bike less powerful. Get real Ducati, this is nonsense (other than if you are looking to cut the SuperSport).

[@staffanjerkeman4604]

Why are you riding around talking about another bike? Pictures of the new bike would be much more relevant.