A Cloud City on Venus: Why Venus is a Better Choice

[@FunderDuck]

Personally, I’m a big Earth fan. It’s a nice place, can sustain life, fairly cozy, and all my stuff is already here..

[@LloydWaldo]

Rent is getting a little high. Venus is up and coming.

[@vic5015]

Pretty decent chance Earth will be uninhabitable for humans by 2100.

[@Dvergenlied]

Yeah, but there are all these hostile life forms on Earth called “Homo sapiens sapiens” (we won’t get into the irony of that taxonomy) that makes living on Earth grotesquely unpleasant. At least there’s dogs on earth.

[@NinetooNine]

@@vic5015 Earth would still be way more hospitable to life in 2100 (or even 2500) than Venus or Mars. No matter what we do to this planet.

[@Jakey4000]

@@LloydWaldo just wait until Venus gets gentrified

[@umbracolt6364]

Gives 'Choose love, not war.' a whole new meaning.

[@ahtheh]

At least it will be a mother land, rather than a father land

[@dukeofgibbon4043]

No Elon on Venus!

[@samsschool3639]

Nice!

[@youngjung161]

Very clever

[@youngjung161]

Venus truly is a fitting place for hippies, where you live high in a place full of toxic fumes.

[@hherpdderp]

Me : "god I hate flying or being on boats, never feel safe" Also Me: "god yeah I'd love to ride a bomb through a vacuum to live on a dirigible surrounded by superheated sulphiric acid gas"

[@Trottelheimer]

When you put it that way, I definitely feel ready to go! :-))

[@joxerd]

It has the same feeling of dying without being able to breathe in space or dying from falling to a height where you can contemplate your life in the time you reach the ground.

[@davidmason4244]

On boats in the sky

[@oldmech619]

I hope this video is played back in a 100 years as What they were thinking?

[@claudiosmith170]

This is so metal! 🤘

[@j.s.c.4355]

Yesterday, I selected an episode of Megaprojects about building artificial seas in the Sahara. I fell asleep to the sound of Simon’s voice, and when I woke up, he was talking about the Oregon Trail. I listened to that for a while before falling asleep again, and ultimately waking up to Simon telling me how convergent evolution relates to Mermaids. Three different channels, but Simon the entire time. Simon is developing a monopoly over KZbin. You should do an episode about it.

[@williamalfonso1373]

Go watch Brain Blaze.... He is less serious there

[@Breadman-k6d]

Bro you are not getting your 8 hours every night are you?

[@erwintan4746]

are u sure u are awake when posting this,

[@Gsoda35]

what nonsense are you talking about? please consider people's feelings.

[@pearls1626]

😂😂😂

[@belochai12]

I’ve long held this view. Nice to see others talking about it.

[@shockruk]

First person on Mars will be one thing. First person around Venus will be another. Imagine the first human to visit them both! Now that's a future I'd like humans to strive for.

[@zeocamo]

maybe we should focus on this planet first, most person got 3 jobs just to pay the bills, when we fix that then we can talk about the stars.

[@shockruk]

@@zeocamo I get where you're coming from, but it just won't happen. People have been in abject poverty for hundreds/thousands of years and technology continued to progress. At this point it is literally impossible to change our trajectory in time. As a species, we spend a tiny, tiny fraction of our global production capacity for space exploration. If we were to move that spending into 'focusing on this planet' it would provide very little benefit. We are already doing as much research as we can on new energy production, more efficient systems. Realistically, the best we can do for the planet and people living here now is to stop allowing oil companies to give themselves bonuses while the rest of the population choose between food or heating.

[@Aztesticals]

@@zeocamo we have been trying to do that for thousands soft years. Now instead the people that actually have the willpower to do for society instead of themselves would like to leave this planet and set up other lands so that when the normal humans destroy themselves a culture based on collective survival will prevail

[@jamesbond1231]

Totally. Then we can fuck up multiple planets all at the same time!

[@--enyo--]

We’d have to invent an anti-aging vaccine or putting our brains in robot bodies or something first, I imagine. Otherwise the times scales involved might not be practical.

[@kirtmanwaring3629]

I’d take this over Mars easily. I do think though our future in space probably will be mostly in O'neil cylinders or other kinds of artificial habitats. Venus could be a good way for us to learn how to make those better too.

[@salvadordittrich4611]

Is there not a problem with mining recurces? I mean building efficient mines and appropriate infrastructure take time and a planate to mine

[@kirtmanwaring3629]

@@salvadordittrich4611 By the time we’re able to do this we should be mining the moon, asteroids and hell Venus itself. The biggest problem with space mining right now is we don’t have very much stuff in space outside our Earth orbit mostly because it's so expensive to move stuff out there from Earth’s gravity well. Once there's enough stuff and people out there mining will be a lot easier.

[@baishihua]

Indeed, ultimately colonising a planet is more of a passion project where building space stations is the most efficient way.

[@McHobotheBobo]

The Moon is our best option for immediate extraterrestrial habitation by humans. If we were committed, we could have communities in the low hundreds on Luna within a decade or so of the first arrivals. The lava tubes make ideal places to shelter from solar wind and other such radiation. We know there is plenty of water and no long transit relative to other celestial bodies in the system. A secondary oxygen source would be better than using lunar ice alone for water and air, but that is still viable

[@kirtmanwaring3629]

@@McHobotheBobo Yeah I agree the moon is our best first step. It's also a much better place to build things for space than Earth because the gravity well won’t demand nearly so much rocket fuel for escape velocity. Rocket fuel is the main thing holding our space infrastructure back right now.

[@Jeff55369]

In the Venusian Cloud City Colony, I think it would be a common pastime to sit watching the clouds pass by. I think it would be cool to have observation areas that provide a high degree of visibility. More or less the glass bottom boat concept.

[@vanyadolly]

We have clouds here too. How much time do people generally spend watching them?

[@Jeff55369]

@@vanyadolly it's a much different experience when you're above the cloud layer.

[@plaecholder]

​@Teth you never taken your SO out for a picnic and cloudwatched? People definitely enjoy cloudwatching, even if it's not as common in the digital age we're in today.

[@alexlubbers1589]

​@@vanyadollytheres whole communities of science geeks, weather nerds, photographers and videographers dedicated to watching storms and clouds soooooo

[@MrCubFan415]

Unsettling when you realize those clouds have sulfuric acid.

[@tompotter8748]

Fascinating. Had no idea this was so possible from an engineering standpoint, and extra awesome with the heat engine hot-low-atmosphere probe tech giving you tons of energy letting you fly/hang out wherever, including the dark side of the planet w/o solar - love that. And the dense atmosphere lets you both float extra-well and fly extra-well with props working really effectively with all that dense gas. Wonderful! I hope I get to visit such a flying city in my own lifetime. That would be incredible, I’d be so proud of us.

[@chriss5482]

Gives "the floor is lava" a whole new meaning

[@carniedph]

Lol for real...

[@wompa70]

I've read a few books set on Venus colonies. But as far as movies and tv shows go, all you have to do to mimic Mars is head to one of the many deserts and throw a red filter on the camera. Much cheaper than trying to mimic Venus. Still, with today's CGI you could easily do stuff set on Venus. I think it's just momentum that keeps Mars king.

[@SargeRho]

Venus isn't really any harder than your average space scene with a blue or greenscreen, on the technical side. A venusian cloudscape is ofc more work than a starfield.

[@nejsonsvejson9861]

Although think of the cloud simulations

[@Ticoriko]

Cloud city on Venus sounds like what they have in that star citizen game , they managed to put a cloud city on a fully explorable Gass giant , pretty neat ig

[@smileywarhead5178]

I wonder if Mars has more interest because it's easier to fake the landing? But what billionaire, media tycoon, megalomaniac would do that? 🤔

[@natedogg890]

As a CG professional, Venus would be way easier than Mars, especially now with real time volumetrics. No, the reason we get Mars Mars Mars is a holdover from the Cold War. Venus is clearly the better option, but since the soviets got there first, we have been sold an inferior dream of the future

[@vic5015]

I once read a book about colonizing Venus that *must* have been written in the '50s since it got the surface conditions of Venus *wildly* wrong.

[@konst80hum]

It was Issac Asimov's and in later edition he added an introduction where he explained that the new (then) discoveries invalidated his story's scientific backdrop. Still a good story.

[@meghank4042]

@@konst80hum which book of his is it ? I have the foundation but ive not read it yet

[@konst80hum]

@@meghank4042 It was in a collection of short stories, I can't remember the title, sorry...

[@vic5015]

@@konst80hum not the one I read. It was a *much* more obscure book. Then again, I do not remember the name of the author.

[@TidalShadow]

@@vic5015 It may have been Prelandra. The book is by C.S. Lewis, but that series is much less well known than the Narnia books.

[@dotter8]

About water, it seems to have been turned into sulphuric acid (H2SO4) by whatever processes. Crack the acid, perhaps with microbes that have been suitably altered, and you'd get water, (H2O), oxygen (O2) and some sulphur. The latter might be useful; if not, the colonies could use abundant solar energy to launch it into orbit where it could eventually form a moon.

[@ZeroBudgetFilmSchool]

More likely they'd dump it overboard!

[@darylsonnier658]

Depending on what's available, they could make sulfur based based batteries with it.

[@explorerofworlds512]

This is a really good idea. I wonder if a lot of Venus's missing water vapor content can be chalked up to Sulphuric acid formation.

[@GFortz]

Unfortunately, completely deionising the sulphur in the acid would be extremely unlikely due to the amount of energy required to do so. I would think that electrolysis of the acid would be able to generate hydrogen and oxygen, just like doing so with water would: the product would be either higher-concentrated acid or peroxysulphuric acid - while not really energy efficient, that would not be much of an issue with the abundance of thermal energy that the planet's atmosphere has to offer.

[@dotter8]

@@GFortz Okay, then practical chemical de-ionization would net some water, oxygen and floatation gas at the cost of efficiency. What about enzymatic reduction by my "suitably altered microbes?" Might that be more effective?

[@builders8117]

7:24-7:31 being able to walk out side for a short time without a space suit and only a air mask would be absolutely amazing to experience just imagining going outside on another planet with no space suit on is so cool having the element of direct connection to the planet without a filter I feel like would make Venus way more appealing than mars because it feels like home also the dim light on mars would be depressing

[@congobongo2009]

Having a floating city slowly losing altitude and having seven hours to evacuate before crushing pressure would make for an exciting thrill ride of a sci fi story…I’m sure chatgpt could write it up a classic😂

[@forsaken_tcg]

Can i use that idea? 😅

[@andromidius]

It would be derivative though. ChatGP can only really shuffle things around, change a few names and alter a few words that mean the same thing. Might be a good synopsis for an actual creative author, though.

[@dixion1000]

GPT4: Title: "Descent into the Inferno: A Venusian Odyssey" Synopsis: In the late 23rd century, humankind has managed to colonize Venus-not on its inhospitable surface, but by creating colossal floating colonies suspended in its less hostile upper atmosphere. These structures, equipped with advanced technology and systems that keep them airborne, have fostered thriving communities of scientists, engineers, and their families, who have adapted to the constant cloud cover and surreal landscape of Venus. But life in the Venusian atmosphere has its perils, and one day, the unexpected happens. Harmony Station, one of the largest of these floating colonies, experiences a catastrophic failure in its buoyancy systems. The megastructure begins a slow, agonizing descent into the deadly lower atmosphere of Venus. Time is running out for the thousands of people aboard, as the station descends towards temperatures hot enough to melt lead and pressures that could crush a submarine. The novel follows a diverse cast of characters including station commander Marina Petrova, a seasoned astronaut and reluctant leader; Caleb Young, an ingenious but reckless engineer; and their children, Alexei Petrov and Izzy Young, who are forced to grow up faster than they ever imagined. As the station's descent accelerates, the inhabitants must race against the clock to either fix the failing systems or evacuate to the sister station, Tranquility, situated tens of kilometers away in the turbulent Venusian winds. However, resources are scarce, the journey is perilous, and Tranquility may not be able to accommodate all the refugees from Harmony. The community will need to come together in unforeseen ways to survive this crisis. Difficult decisions will be made, sacrifices will be demanded, and in the process, humanity will test its mettle in the harshest of conditions. "Descent into the Inferno: A Venusian Odyssey" is a gripping tale of survival, resilience, and human spirit set against the otherworldly backdrop of Venus's cloud cities. It serves as a poignant reminder that the final frontier is not space, but our ability to overcome adversities and thrive as a species, wherever we may find ourselves.

[@cars291]

Actual 'Freezing to death' or generally dying on Mars novels didnt do well on the market.. you might not make a lot of money. Poeple seem to be set on 'nah it will be fine'

[@stefanr8232]

Ammonium carbonate is a dense powder, easily stored in a canister. At 58 C it decomposes into ammonia, water, and carbon dioxide. Ammonia and water vapor are strong lifting gasses on Venus. A floating platform will have considerable ballast in order to stabilize and provide comfort. Below most of the deck there will be aerographene and/or various types of foam or aerogel. In a story where a city is annihilated by multiple nuclear warheads in a war the fragments attached to aerographene chunks would rise to higher altitude.

[@Falconlibrary]

UPDATE: It's 2030, and Simon becomes the world's first multi-trillionaire because he acquired all of the airspace rights to Venus in 2023 for £15.

[@waynehewett4017]

2030 is abit early 2050 to 2200 is probably more realistic

[@alicorn3924]

wasn't there a treaty that forbid owning stuff in space?

[@waynehewett4017]

@@alicorn3924 I think so But let's be honest no one country could

[@waynehewett4017]

@@alicorn3924 could ever afford the 100s trillions of dollars it would cost even to colonise the moon never alone Mars or Venus

[@UniDeathRaven]

private property must be banned.

[@manwiththeredface7821]

I think rotating space stations (like Elysium or Babylon 5) would be the best, everywhere. We could set the artificial gravity and the atmosphere to our liking, and it would be easier and cheaper to leave than the gravity well of a celestial body. Surface colonies would only be worth it if there's mining activity there.

[@nish221100]

Actually better would be the O'Neill Colony at a Lagrange Point. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/O%27Neill_cylinder

[@manwiththeredface7821]

@@nish221100 That's why I mentioned Babylon 5 (it's exactly an O'Neill cylinder). L4 or L5 out of all the Lagrange Points would be the most stable.

[@TheBooban]

Yes, we can’t long term anything without gravity. But 1. How long can a rotating or floating structure last? 2. Space is empty, so whats the point? Cloud Venus also empty, just gas resources. Meh. Leaves me to conclude, a space station to mine an asteroid or maintain space solar power satellites. Or something else. Like Space Marines or rods from god.

[@nish221100]

@@manwiththeredface7821 I had forgotten about B5. Thx for that!

[@Trottelheimer]

A big carousel with an angled floor along the periphery could create gravity on a planetary surface. Live and work on/in there, go outside for some low gravity fun. A bit ridiculous and steampunk'ish, and I don't know how feasible it is...

[@isbestlizard]

You wouldn't need to coat everything in PTFE. You'd just need an outer layer/balloon, which is sacrificial and can be replaced as segments deteriorate. Any atmosphere that diffuses past (which with no pressure differential will be very slow) is then actively scrubbed from the blanketing layer, which is just normal materials and doesn't need to be coated in anything. The actual inside is then at whatever pressure is required, and airtight.

[@lukesutton4135]

Small hole in that theory... but i think balloons might pop.

[@drewberrymore2415]

@@lukesutton4135 no the pressure difference is not sufficient in this case..

[@AnInvisibleMan]

I foresee complications in that active scrubbing part. Cos you'd need to be able to scrub _everything_ down to all the little nooks and crannies, joints and seams, not to mention the scrubbing apparatus itself. And then there's the scrubbing material which will need to be stocked in large quantities and regularly resupplied... Even using it implies connection from the inside to the outside, which necessarily entails more potential failure points. I dunno, sacrificial layers work as a concept in Earth environments where you can eventually remove the whole system from the corrosive environment for maintenance, but there's no dry-dock scenario for a cloud city on another planet. It seems to me this solution might be too temporary in nature for proper feasibility.

[@Kannot2023]

Airtight is the word, how you can keep the stuff airtight if people enter and exit. The small infiltrations of acid will damage the structure of Station.

[@davidbahr9068]

Robots and pressure chambers

[@AmosIrontree]

Finally a mega project worthy of the name! ❤️ I’ve always thought Venus doesn’t hold enough mindshare in the planning of our first colony. I love the thought of floating sky cities!

[@historymaker5389]

Simon dissing Mars is the second funniest roast of a planet😂😂 First will always be: Pluto🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@samsschool3639]

The Ability to walk around with just and oxygen tank on another planet is insane (without pressurised space suit)

[@Lodrik18]

You wont walk on Venus with "just and oxygen tank" or you get crispy really quick...

[@samsschool3639]

@@Lodrik18 did you even watch the whole clip?

[@JefferyDollars]

​@Sam's School he def did not

[@angelinaoliver5587]

Yhup I think I’m good on Earth…

[@hi117117]

He's really downplaying how much acid there is in the atmosphere. you would not be able to walk around with just an oxygen tank. and you would get crispy, just from acid not heat.

[@MouseDestruction]

I believe that Mars comes in below the daily recommended intake of gravity. Might be the hardest thing to solve, either planet is going to be very hard to colonize, so something like that could really sway the choice. Also saving a ton on travel expenses is very tempting for those business minded folks. In saying that, Mars might be an easier practice run, being that it is at least on the ground.

[@asmosisyup2557]

It's a one way trip. If you're growing up on mars its unlikely you'd survive on earth given how brittle your body would be. Even if you carry a lead backpack around, you can't strengthen everything.

[@tryhardfpv5351]

Centrifuges for Mars with habitats can be built if proven to be a requirement. Think a n angled circular railway rotating enough to give the needed gravity field.

[@mehere8038]

Venus habitats are basically the same as habitats floating on the oceans here, but needing a cover over them. So the best "practice run" would be to build such structures here on earth & attach them to the islands that are sinking due to climate change caused by the rich. Give those in poor islands we've destroyed a new home & let them test out all the concepts of a venus city in the process

[@johno1544]

​@@asmosisyup2557you wouldnt just carry a lead backpack around. New study suggests that astronauts and mission planners could employ an effective weapon in the fight against bone-density loss: jumping and other forms of high-impact exercise. Weight training would work on Mars unlike micro gravity. Think picking up and throwing boulders or jumping over a human with ease. Super high intensity stuff that's what you would do to stay strong. The Mars bench press record is going to be sick.

[@Icetea-2000]

@@asmosisyup2557It’s literally not a one way trip though, holy shit why are people STILL saying that like it’s 20 years ago? Rockets would refuel on mars and return after the 2 year window. It’s nowhere near a one way trip

[@ArgosySpecOps]

I remember the local library back in 1986 showed the film "All Summer in a Day" (based on the Ray Bradbury short story), and thinking colonizing Venus would be RAD! I cracked open Encyclopedia Britannica to do a report on the USSR Venera missions, but I was crestfallen when I read how insurmountable such an undertaking would be 😔. The fact that people are giving the colonization of Venus another look from a different angle gives my inner child hope for the future!😃

[@chitlitlah]

I read one about terraforming Venus when I was a kid in the late 80s. I was saddened to learn later that it wouldn't be so easy as seeding the upper atmosphere with bacteria. Still, it seems like Venus has some things going for it while a colony on Mars wouldn't be much better off than a colony floating in space.

[@gur262]

That's what futurisms for. Hope. If people have hope for another planet they shut up about the latest V8 monster of today.

[@PacesIII]

I seem to recall an Outer Limits (?) episode with Maureen Stapleton (?) that was basically the same story but on Neptune? Details are sketchy and would have been probably late eighties. Could have been the Edith Fields version from 1982. Still trying to find two hokey 80's movies: Movie 1. Woman has car accident off a cliff, is paralyzed, recovers, and then she can heal people. Healed a girl from a bloody nose who had been teasing her about being in the wheelchair. Movie 2: Collector buys a porcelain doll for his daughter who claims it talks to her. Dad doesn't believe it until daughter screams and he sees the doll's head move. Decides he wants to burn it. Doll bites his arm and he throws it into the fire. Veins going up his arm and must find shaman to heal the bite before it reaches his heart.

[@fbksfrank4]

I’m 57, we finally have a worthy “Dick Tracy” watch, personal flying pod being worked on hard. Bit of a lag, but still getting it done.

[@damianousley8833]

Yes, colonise Venus?. Suffocating atmosphere, and if you accidently tumble from your floating cloud habitat, you would be crushed and then cremated on the drop to the surface. You can go to Mars and freeze you backside and everyingthing else and suffocate if your shelter is suit looses pressure. At least you do have a hard surface and 24 hour 40 minute day. On Venus in the cloud city, you would be blown around the planet every 4 days by the prevailing winds. Either world are not nice places, neither is the Moon. Such is the mechanical, chemical, electrical, and biological engineering challenges that colonising other solar system bodies presents. It is not for the faint hearted and would be a truly stoic effort. No rapid development and flash heroes here, just a constant drudgery existence.

[@Jim54_]

I was waiting for someone to finally point out that colonising Venus is a far better option for humanity in the long term than colonising the small and distant desert planet Mars, so the sooner we start the better

[@Thracian117]

Crushing atmospheric pressures...acid rain... constant lightning storms...what's not to love

[@Maxw3llTheGreat]

I think the real trick to colonizing any part of the solar system is to build cycler stations that go between those locations and earth, and eventually all over the place. These would be large habitats that make their own food water and power and have spin gravity meaning they're pretty comfortable to live on for long periods

[@arnaudgerard1971]

Spin gravity may be really unpleasant for your inner ear.

[@Maxw3llTheGreat]

@@arnaudgerard1971 that is very possible but I think above a certain diameter the rotation speed would be low enough that it would be impossible to tell you're in spin gravity (other than being in a tube)

[@arnaudgerard1971]

@@Maxw3llTheGreat If you don't look outside, I'd be surprised, if you would ever be able to "tell". But what size are we talking about: planet(oid) size? Do you wanna build such large stations?

[@Maxw3llTheGreat]

Probably something a couple km in radius. I'm thinking big enough to comfortably house and feed a couple thousand people indefinitely, and you'd basically rent a house or apartment on one for the duration of the transfer between origin and destination. Keep in mind transfer times could be on the order of a couple years so you want it to be a nice place to live

[@arnaudgerard1971]

@@Maxw3llTheGreat Well, I'm no med; I don't know the size it would require to never ever (years, decades) feel it.

[@ChaJ67]

Venus' thick atmosphere should allow you to float reasonably well on something like pure nitrogen. Maybe you could have a pure nitrogen main bag and then an Earth atmosphere sub-bag below for your living space. The problem with hydrogen and helium is the atoms are so small, it is hard to keep them from leaking out of the bag you are floating on. Nitrogen won't necessarily leak out.

[@UpperDarbyDetailing]

The oxy/nitro mix of earth atmosphere is a lifting gas on Venus. If you're really interested in the subject Isaac Arthur has a couple of excellent videos on colonizing and terraforming Venus.

[@ChaJ67]

@@UpperDarbyDetailing Yes he does.

[@reYouMad]

Would be a good kaboom 🤣

[@ChaJ67]

@@reYouMad Hydrogen does not go kaboom on Venus because no free oxygen to combine with. Actually, Venus has lost a lot of hydrogen atoms over the years, moreso than Earth.

[@reYouMad]

Thank you for correcting me. Good explanation, much appreciation

[@Reddotzebra]

Because you could use regular oxygen/nitrogen mix that we can comfortably breathe as a lifting gas on Venus I would hazard a guess. But in every iteration of this I've seen in sci fi they still focus on cloud cities hanging under giant balloons, you could realistically just make them INSIDE giant balloons instead.

[@gregpekar7328]

This

[@hherpdderp]

It is mentioned you could add balloons above the city with helium to add extra lift and control along with the city supporting itself.

[@krisgonynor689]

The problem with this is that then you have to fill the entire balloon with breathable air, not just the floating city. Sure, there is plenty of oxygen and nitrogen on Venus, but it would take a lot of water to make all that air comfortable to live in. Since water is so scare is has to be imported, I don't see wasting it to fill up empty space.

[@ncb1397]

@@krisgonynor689 There is enough water on venus to fill a couple of the great lakes. Water imports wouldn't be needed until the population reaches many digits.

[@midnight8341]

@@krisgonynor689 you miss the point. You don't even need a balloon on Venus. You only have to build your entire habitat that it's density is slightly below that of the Venusian atmosphere. You're not wasting space by filling it up with air, you're breathing your lifting gas. And if your habitat becomes too dense, you can simply expand the air space, which is a) nice for comfort and b) a good investment in having-more-air.

[@jimmyscreen]

0:13 whistler for the win, when ya need a little 'relaxing, what ifs' 😊 0:49

[@ubberJakerz]

I did a pretty large paper on this topic a while ago. It was terribly difficult to find significant research on Venus.

[@popaopol]

Yeah this dude is acting like he knows more than he does... Proper accent goes a long ways for these plebs

[@ubberJakerz]

@@popaopol Granted, Venus is pretty difficult to study.

[@vic5015]

If humanity does end up creating a Cloud City-style Venusian colony, pretty sure George Lucas's Force ghost would be *quite* amused.

[@usonumabeach300]

Been asking this for years! Thanks for covering it

[@ARWest-bp4yb]

A good way to start would be to send a robotic probe, it could act as a testbed for materials while exploring Venus from within the upper atmosphere.

[@waynehewett4017]

Good luck even getting the probe to survive Even the Russian probe that was heavily armoured only lasted 2 hours before it was cooked and crushed

[@LawFerryAC]

@@waynehewett4017 you missed the part where he said that probe was on ground level

[@waynehewett4017]

@@LawFerryAC would it matter which on Venus the probe would be ? As being in the atmosphere with clouds of battery acid or being on the surface with 900 degrees temperature and a tonne per inch pressure the probe would not last long ! The only successful probe landing by the Russians only lasted under 2 hours The surface of Venus would make a crematorium look like a cool summer's day

[@ARWest-bp4yb]

@@waynehewett4017 I was suggesting a probe in the UPPER atmosphere, where pressures & temperatures are comparable to Earth.

[@ARWest-bp4yb]

@@LawFerryAC No I didn't. The video is about a city ABOVE the clouds, where future robotic probes will no doubt explore.

[@grantmccoy6739]

The acid rain suggests water, just in a bad mixture. So it's probably there in ample supply. My vision involved floating trees, literally plants that grow with high buoyancy. The atmosphere seems to have lots of co2 (dirty air) so it's possible to breed plant species that could take advantage of the conditions. Even if the plants themselves can't float, you could make solar balloons that utilize the heat or electricity to maintain the pressure that keeps the plants aloft. Eventually, if enough plants grow, they would litter the sky, cool off the planet, absorb the atmosphere, and make the planet more habitable. BTW, I don't see any reason why a woody plant wouldn't be able to develop a structure with very hollow and therefore lightweight internals, enough to float. The only problem would be the water, but it's possible that the plant could absorb that too. I really like thinking about stuff like this. Hanging gardens of Venus sounds really cool.

[@CrossWindsPat]

Im thinking of giant greenhouses that "burp" the air in cycles! Would be so cool!

[@exastrisscientia0]

Thank you so much for doing this video!!! 😳

[@rodrigolfernandes]

haven't even watched the video yet but I can already say: "agreed". I have been daydreaming about cloud cities on Venus for years

[@alpheusmadsen8485]

"Which would you prefer, Mars or Venus?" Me: How about both? I'm not sure which place I'd like to live, but I'd certainly like to visit both! And I'd also like to visit Ceres, Triton, Ganymede, and Pluto eventually as well.

[@ScottBFree]

I'd pick earth, always earth. It's far better.

[@Mythicalgoon]

@@ScottBFree for now is kind of the point...

[@xiayu6098]

@@ScottBFree the point is that by the time earth is shit were gonna have to move

[@jolan_tru]

'Tis important to remember that "best" choice doesn't always mean "good" choice.

[@Homiesapian]

I still want my cloud city

[@jolan_tru]

@@Homiesapian I read that to the tune of Money For Nothing by Dire Straits.

[@Reddotzebra]

"Death... Good choice! Not BEST choice mebbe, but better than... Fail and live..."

[@Homiesapian]

@@jolan_tru man of culture

[@Homiesapian]

@@marcosolo6491 I’m aware that earth belongs in the “Goldilocks Zone”. However I feel you are incorrect. Mars is humanities next opportunity to explore, colonize, and move on as we have for centuries. Humans have the urge to covent unknown trinkets no matter the size and the fact that humanity has the capability to “migrate” the solar system brings the endeavor of numerous enterprises to do just the exact opposite of what you said about Antarctica etc.

[@ninjam77]

Wouldn't the main problem be cooling a city in an environment that's as hot as 75ºC? You also couldn't generate energy from the difference between the temperature inside the settlement and outside, because you would need energy to create that difference in the first place.

[@carlkenner4581]

I noticed that mistake too.

[@joeg8304]

Yeah. They provide a realistic alternative later when mentioning a heat source in a tether into the hotter deep atmosphere, thankfully.

[@wkeyski5455]

I would think a small crew could cool it and set up some infrastructure before a larger population arrived.

[@carlos_takeshi]

Solar panels are more efficient on Venus than on Earth, so that's one source of energy right there. As already mentioned, there's a temperature gradient vertically that can be exploited as well. It's something you could bootstrap. Use power from the solar panels to generate the temperature differential to begin with, then use the temperature differential to generate more power going forward.

[@CrossWindsPat]

Still a cake walk compared to the issue of low gravity. Mark my words that will be the biggest challenge next to radiation when it comes to long term space travel.

[@braincellpirate]

I hadn't thought of this before. Venus seems pretty cool!

[@anarchyneverdies3567]

I used PTFE a lot when I was a piercer, that is an amazing material! You can autoclave it, screw things onto it and it creates its own threads, and your body will almost never reject it. So cool

[@darkwaveatheist]

Awesome stuff PTFE. Used it on internal piping on a boat. Threaded joints practically fixed themselves.

[@Jthomsonhate7]

It's Teflon

[@LegoDork]

@@Jthomsonhate7 Advil is ibuprofen.

[@Jthomsonhate7]

@@LegoDork That is correct.

[@Adolf_Meowtler]

Its also cancerogenic .

[@soroosh82]

THANK YOU! Finally, someone that sees things like I do. Venus is the perfect place to call home, with some variations ofcourse.

[@FrederickTheGrt]

I agree. It would make disposal of waste easy, feces, urine, deaths, etc. - cremation, incineration, by releasing it to the surface of the planet in to volcanoes or lava.

[@soroosh82]

@@FrederickTheGrt Well, can't argue with that logic. 😂

[@judah7162]

The video was posted 2 minutes ago, it's 12 minutes 55 sec longs and there are comments as if it's already been watched.

[@MrPossumeyes]

Isn't there a Patreon thing?

[@littletimelord2755]

You started the video with an analogy for life on mars which went something like “imagine living in Antarctica, except there’s no air, and everyone around you gets cancer.” Well, here’s one for Venus: “Imagine living in a blimp, except there’s no air, no water, and falling below a certain altitude means getting either crushed to death, baked alive, or both. Oh, and it rains acid.” Sounds about as exciting as mars in terms of safety to me.

[@agalaadam]

9:22 - actually, the sulphuric acid itself can be a nice source of water. When heated enough it can release a water particle, leaving a gaseous anhydride - sulfur (VI) oxide. The reaction goes: H2SO4 --T-> SO3 + H2O

[@pewterhacker]

Yay! This video challenging the accepted wisdom is so dearly needed. Well done!

[@echatav]

Colonizing planets whether it’s Venus or Mars or moons doesn’t make too much sense to me. It makes lots of sense to have small manned stations and large robotic presences there. But for large human presence in the solar system, space colonies make more sense to me. They’re not stuck in a gravity well but are able to replicate 1g and they can be conveniently located at stable Lagrange points.

[@juliusfishman7222]

But wouldn’t they be exposed to radiation

[@vma1030]

MINERALS mah boy bunch of MINERALS TO MINE!!!!

[@HighWages]

@@juliusfishman7222 at that point technology will be so advanced radiation wouldn’t be an issue

[@mehere8038]

@@juliusfishman7222 yup, that's why Venus is an unbeetable option. Insurance colony for humans, nothing needed to sustain it that can't be obtained from the colony & it's mother planet. Quite doable right now, with today's tech, the space stations away from earth's atmosphere are pipe dreams!

[@Gsoda35]

that is plausible since we already got about half the necessary technology working on the international space station. I just worry that they will be unsuccessful at creating a working habitat for large groups of people. multiple experiments failed on Earth.

[@Br.Joshua]

Was thinking about writing my masters thesis about this very topic. Thanks for making this video!

[@cyberneticbutterfly8506]

The main issue is what it can export to earth. Both mars or venus. No colonization ever happen where the motherland was feeding investment into the colony without getting that investment back in some form. Strategically, or resources.

[@samuelbucher5189]

You mean _can't_ export to Earth?

[@cyberneticbutterfly8506]

@@samuelbucher5189 No..can not can't...I'm confused about what you are confused about...

[@samuelbucher5189]

@@cyberneticbutterfly8506 Sorry, I misread "what" in the first sentence as "that".

[@kevin_mitchell]

re: The gravity situation on Mars and spaceflights. That made me think of something. What about about a suit and helmet that's weighted in such a way to give an even distribution around the body that mimicked Earth's gravity - maybe a double layered suit filled with plasma or water or something, internally honeycombed between the layers so the liquid doesn't slosh about. Maybe I should've patented this idea to make millions of dollars, assuming it hasn't already been thought of by people much smarter than me. Different weighted suits for different gravities, one for space flight, and one for the planet of destination. Obviously, planets with heavier gravities might require very lightweight suits with helium or something.

[@cleverusername9369]

4:07 wonder when Simon will learn that the word is "conducive", not "conductive"? He does this all the time lol bless his heart

[@TheBooban]

It’s not wrong. Something conductive is a conducive environment for electricity. Alot of people use the word like that. Probably the same kind that spell alot as one word rather than 2 because we refuse to change with the times despite the red underlining. Or under lining.

[@danielpope6498]

@@TheBooban it is definitely wrong in the context.

[@conduit242]

@@TheBooban You’re right, “alot of people” are uneducated.

[@InquisMalleus]

Might just be a British English vs. American English thing

[@andoletube]

@@InquisMalleus It's not. It's wrong in all versions of English.

[@dimzen5406]

When I was a very young, in early 80x, I made a calculation, that shows there is a "heaven point" in upper Venus atmosphere were there is a 1 bar pressure and 20 celsius temperature in right heigh. It's shows - in this ambient there a possibility to grade human shelter much more cheaper and safe then anywhere in solar system.

[@mehere8038]

20c is way too cold imo! I'd much rather 30-40c (which also means much less floatation is needed)

[@dimzen5406]

@@mehere8038 In this case there's some additional issues - energy for cooling (It's takes more then heating ) and pressure from outside, it means much heavier construction and much less safe in case of decompression

[@mehere8038]

@@dimzen5406 no, pressure outside is much closer to sea level earth where I want to be than where you want to be! You want it at Mt Everest levels pressure. which means much more variation between inside & outside, so much heavier construction needed, compared to when both are near to the same. & why are we cooling? That defeats the whole purpose doesn't it! We're recruiting people from Australia, Hawaii etc, who like me, like it at the temperatures that are much easier to manage on venus - and we're growing crops that like the warm weather better too! & in the case of decompression, it's dropping to an altitiude where it's sauna temperature, so much better to have people already comfortable with the heat than those who want it at 20c to be comfortable! 75c is normal for cars in Australia that have been parked in the sun for 5 minutes or more & until recent years, air con really wasn't even a thing, people just dealt with it as normal

[@ptero]

20C is too cold.?? ?????????????? Are there really people who wear warm jackets at this temperature.?

[@mattzegarski3831]

I gotta admit, at the beginning I was beyond skeptical. By the end, I was sold. That's as long as those whole acid rain and no water things get figured out.

[@heretic-668]

The acid rain is actually where you could get your water and much of your breathable atmosphere. The chemical formula for sulfuric acid is H₂SO₄ ... meaning, it has Hydrogen, it has Oxygen. It's ironic that the sulfuric acid clouds are weirdly a benefit to the whole idea.

[@brauljo]

1:38 83 m/s 1:39 601 K 1:47 9.7 MPa 3:54 Density of Earth's atmosphere = 1.2 kg/m³ × 90 = 108 kg/m³, but the density of Venus's atmosphere is 65 kg/m³ 4:09 348 K 10:52 92.9 kW·h = 334 MJ; the correct symbol for hours is "h", not "hrs" 11:09 66.3 and 233 W/cm² = 663 kW/m² and 2.33 MW/m²; 6.17 and 6.71 Earth g = 60.5 and 65.8 m/s²

[@Jim54_]

Carl Sagan made the first proposed method of terraforming Venus was made in 1961. In a paper titled “The Planet Venus“, he argued for the use of genetically engineered bacteria to transform the carbon in the atmosphere into organic molecules. However, these bacteria would have to be engineered to survive immense heat, pressure and acid rain. Not impossible to do, but definitely pushing biology to its absolute limits.

[@dissonancE..]

I really just want some Simonverse 24/7 channel that I can just put on plex or kodi like a live tv channel. He's got to have enough videos and topics for one by now. Way better than having history or discovery on in the background.

[@genericscottishchannel1603]

I mean, you could fly around the other side of the planet to make it nighttime, or you could just straddle the day/night boundary and use mirrors to direct light in from the top of the dome, or just use bing blackout blinds

[@SpikeRazzor]

If only a round, extraterrestrial object would terraform these planets.

[@spiritofnex]

Always good to see another guardian in the wild.

[@spritemon98]

"Rise up guardian"

[@jay_payne_9000]

The Witness is coming 👀

[@SpikeRazzor]

@@jay_payne_9000 Space Doritos are in Sol 😭.

[@jay_payne_9000]

@@SpikeRazzor let’s eat them.

[@mabogibo525]

The way you say Venus is as funny as Uranus, proving that I am yet to grow out of my middle school phase.

[@crazygamer_1082]

Ya know what’s so wild? I JUST saw someone do a speech on this at Nationals and was blown away at the idea.

[@Liquid278]

Potential habitat should be called “Vespin”

[@ineffable0ne]

Perfection.

[@waynehewett4017]

Brain dead incompetent muppets is another way to describe it too with today's technology Perhaps in another 50 to 150 years that's I we have killed ourselves by then

[@ReivecS]

I feel like it would be hard to get people onboard with not having a "real ground". Just psychologically there is something about touching the dirt or ground of a place after having been at sea or in the air for a long time and not getting that feeling would be a nogo for me.

[@indfnt5590]

Something someone from Earth would say. 😂

[@Citadel97501]

Frankly I would expect us to import top soil simply for agriculture and trees so we could have some type of earth embassy or memorial.

[@ReivecS]

@@Citadel97501 It is more the sense of stability I was getting at. Even if the city feels solid and like it isn't moving, I think mentally I (and only speaking for myself here) would feel like I am on a boat or plane, no matter how large and nice it was.

[@Daniko2]

Cloud cities on Venus make a lot of sense. Seems like a logical step to take after we've figured out how to avoid the Biosphere II mistakes. Figuring out where to get extra hydrogen from and how to make sulfuric-acid-resistant equipment sound like petty challenges compared to figuring out how to avoid dying (or wanting to) in a dim, radioactive, and poisonous desert with too little gravity, scant sources of energy, and months-long "sand" storms.

[@ckl9390]

I think that the cloud cities could be a good intermediary step while the terraforming work is underway. One of the key steps is literally bulk removal of atmosphere through various means, one of which should be export to Mars for a terraforming package deal. As the atmospheric pressure decreases the nominal elevation of the cloud cities would gradually lower until it got to the groundwork phase and the cities land in prepared cradles at strategic points. Another required step is removing the large quantity of sulphuric acid from the atmosphere. Solving this problem is an opportunity in two ways. Firstly, decomposing each molecule of H2SO4 would yield one molecule of water, one molecule of oxygen, and one atom of solid elemental sulphur. Secondly, what to do then with the literal gigatons of elemental sulphur in circulation on Venus? Compress it to manageable blocks and send it into orbit where is it fused together into an artificial moon. Remember, there's no lack of energy, just processing time which can be shortened through use of multitudes of processing centres on numerous cloud cities. Set the Sulphur Moon (name it after one of Venus' children if is still available) at a distance for a 24 hour orbital period and eventual ground based civilisation will have a time reference which is also important for humans.

[@Shorkshire]

Man, it sucks all of us will be long dead before anything amazing like this ever happens. Being born in this time period blows....

[@MrNote-lz7lh]

I don't know. Age reversal is supposed to be a thing in the next coming decades. So all you have to do to live forever is eat healthier, exercise and be filthy freakin rich.

[@jameswashington4704]

@@MrNote-lz7lh hahahaha

[@midnight8341]

Not necessarily... Just look at it this way: the first protein structure was solved in 1957 and it took them 22 years to do so. In 1976, when the first protein structure database was created, we had all of 13 structures. In 2000, there were ~16k. In 2020, we had ~170k. In 2018, Deepmind started developing Alphafold. In 2021 (July), they released 350k simulated protein structures. Six months later, that number was at ~800k. As of 2022, there 200 MILLION structures in that database. If you plot that, you can't even see the progress of the last 50 years. Technological advancements are exponential, but humans can only think in linear fashion. It takes me 1h today what took 22 years a few decades ago. And our advancements in every field accelerate the advancements in every other field. We developed good AI systems just twenty years ago and they already changed 95% of our lives. I wouldn't bet on what will be possible in our life time or if "our life time" won't be a good part of eternity.

[@michaelsorensen7567]

Compared to which time period? You prefer bubonic plague?

[@schmoppel4899]

Interesting thoughts, but one comment on the electricity production at 5:12 "employ passive thermionic electric generators which would produce usable electricity by taking advantage of the heat difference between the inside surface of a colony baloon or structure and the atmosphere outside". To have a cooler inside of the baloon you need a lot of cooling which costs energy. If this would make sense we could do the same for houses on earth which have a different temperature then outside.

[@billlyell8322]

Spend the winters on Venus and the summers on Mars. Just call me a starbird... lmao

[@WolfCry791]

I think I'm going to stay on a planet where I can have my feet on the ground. I'd be constantly terrified a cloud city would fall

[@Michael-Drizzt]

Of the two, colonies would be easier to establish on Venus. However if humanity were to eventually harvest the the vast amount of water of the various moons of the gas giants that could be another story. Europa for example, which orbits Jupiter, potentially has more than twice the amount of water we have here on Earth. And maybe by slowly siphoning off Venus' atmosphere and transporting it over to Mars, we could make both planets more habitable.

[@radicalred474]

No not without a strong gravitational field. Mars needs more going on or else whatever you out there would just float away. If you truly want it to hold you’d have to figure out artificial magnetic fields and forces for both planets first and that comes from perfect fission energy.

[@alklazaris3741]

I would be happy with just more missions to Venus. Such a fascinating planet with so little interest compared to Mars.

[@waynehewett4017]

Good luck even surviving when you get there

[@Garbimba1900]

I haven't seen Simon in a while, so I was shocked by that magnificent beard 😆

[@cars291]

Inspiring. Thank you. And to answer your questioN. the more I see the struggle with 'returning to the moon' projects, the more I believe Mars to be a destination we wont successfully meaningfully reach much less colonise in the next generations.

[@solaries3]

I've also heard about the idea of terraforming Venus - all we'd need is a giant sunblocker and a few thousand years, I think.

[@waynehewett4017]

And tens of thousands of idiots as cannon fodder or it this case Venus fodder Well at least you won't have to cremate all the bodies As Venus will do that for you

[@pandemicphilly60]

I don't think terraforming Venus is a good idea. I feel bad for the billions of people we'd have to evacuate when the planet goes through a basalt flood.

[@waynehewett4017]

@@pandemicphilly60 not to mention the clouds full of battery acid the 900 degree heat and of course the tonne per square inch atmospheric pressure But apart from that any body to live long enough would be very happy

[@waywardgeologist2520]

So many idiotic replies, but I digress. Birch’s paper outlines the timeline, it probably won’t take 1000’s of years.

[@waynehewett4017]

@@waywardgeologist2520 I'd like to know where the 100s of trillions of dollars will be coming from to finance all theses hair brain ideas ?

[@Ralphster1988]

The big question; will there be windows on the bottom of the city that you can look down through?

[@CorPro]

I'm a big fan of both ideas, but at my stage in life, I'd be happy to stay put and let younger people do the exploring. So I pick option C--stay home. 😜

[@1bobharvey]

You had me at floating city! What good sci-fi doesn't have one of those!

[@CyberCy2]

0:00 that's assuming we don't destroy ourselves before 2030

[@tonycrayford3893]

Leave it out doom monger.

[@sparkyparky9439]

I’ve always been fascinated by our little rocky trio. Up first (well, second) is Venus: once lush, now a smoldering example of runaway greenhouse gases. Last is Mars: thought to perhaps once have been home to liquid water oceans, lakes, etc., it’s winds now sweep a dusty and barren frigid wasteland just as solar winds have ravaged and stripped its atmosphere. But situated right in the middle is green Earth: teeming with life and opportunity. If only we could hear the cries of our distant neighbors; that we might finally heed their warnings.

[@michaelsorensen7567]

What do you mean their warnings? There were people driving cars too much on Mars?

[@thomasrice4930]

I'll move to Naboo, seems nice there.

[@matthewfors114]

earth is blue buddy

[@tinytim71301]

How to Read scholarly articles and think critically. Step 1 Ignore media/politically charged hyperbolic pseudoscience….

[@alexp.6145]

Venus might actually be a young planet.

[@DevinParker]

It's an intriguing idea, though terrifying (The Problems of a Potential Colony: Falling). I was first introduced to the concept of colonizing Venus rather than Mars by the anime film "Venus Wars," in which they make Venus habitable by lobbing a giant ice comet at it first. But until now I hadn't been aware of serious considerations of attempts to colonize the planet. That Venus is in many ways a better candidate than Mars for colonization certainly demonstrates the extreme difficulty of creating an extraterrestrial colony in the first place. The glibness with which the likes of Elon Musk and Jeff Bezos speak of such things betrays their lack of understanding; it's a far easier undertaking to ensure Earth remains habitable for future generations than it is to settle a neighboring planet long-term!

[@DrownedInExile]

Glad I'm not the only one who remembered Venus Wars!

[@popaopol]

You speak about Elon Musk flippantly. Willing to bet he knows way more than most anyone on earth about Mars and space travel. It wouldn't even be on our radar if not for one man. So yeah, glib... Ridiculousness

[@DrownedInExile]

@@popaopol Happy to burst your bubble Sparky, but Elon Musk is not the techno-visionary you think he is. Not even remotely.

[@popaopol]

@@DrownedInExile you got some juicy source

[@DrownedInExile]

@@popaopol I suspect any source I'd name, you'd immediately dismiss as "biased" or a "hater". So I invite you to see for yourself. How's Twitter/X doing under Musk's leadership? How about Telsa self-driving. Look up Musk's own predictions on where they would be from years ago, compared to what they are now? Even worse, Telsa has been busted exaggerating battery range numbers, and deliberately cancelling appointments. The orders for all this crap allegedly came right from Mr. Musk himself. I'm a fan of Tesla, but not of Musk. Is it possible Musk sucks at some things, and is very knowledgeable about others, like space travel? Possible. But it's also possible that he's nothing more than a glorified hype-man. Good at dazzling investors and the public with pie-in-the-sky promises, and not delivering. But hey, don't take my word for it. See for yourself. arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2023/07/tesla-exaggerated-ev-range-so-much-that-drivers-thought-cars-were-broken/ Elon Musks 5 Year Countdown! - kzbin.info/www/bejne/rIq4g4ifhM-Nidk

[@spoookley]

it is so fitting that venus is not only a beautiful planet with potential to sustain life, but it’s also extremely hot.

[@Osama-KIN_TMZ01]

That's all well and roses, but didn't you forget about something very important, like the economical benefit from such a venture? Many aren't just looking after Mars for just colonization, but it also makes the most sense economically. Not only will it be useful in scientific research about origins of life and the possibility of living bacteria in said conditions, but it would also help with being able to maintain itself on resources there whilst perhaps making ventures on out of planet mining... Venus is a better choice for habitation, but it barely covers even half of what I mentioned.

[@Shirocco7]

12:45 you make it sound so appealing lol

[@jonathanboerger274]

As with Mars, the question is why are we not building this on earth? There are places on earth that are almost this inhospitable, but have the advantage of being not as far away and an atmosphere that isn't constantly trying to kill you.

[@mehere8038]

multiple planets is a good insurance plan, but there's probably little benefit of building on Mars compared to the bottom of the ocean or under the ice in Antarctica in terms of insurance colonies. For venus, the obvious first step is to test it out with floating cities on the oceans here, since floating on oceans here is much the same as floating in the clouds there, so why are we not building these cities for the islands we've caused to sink with global warming? That's the obvious prep we should be doing before venus!

[@radicalred474]

I fully agree can you imagine how cool earth could seriously be if we put all this effort here instead of just giving up? More room for population more free land for food. Everything could be better

[@TheRastacabbage]

Islands we've caused to sink with global warming. And I thought the topic of this video was crazy

[@EclecticSundries]

The Sulfuric acid (H2SO4) can be broken down to create hydrogen and oxygen, which can be made into water.

[@LloydWaldo]

Yes! But it’s incredibly energy intensive.

[@ineffable0ne]

@@LloydWaldo And fortunately, energy is in abundant supply on Venus.

[@tedduke4616]

To me mars seemed better because it's cold. You can always wear more layers for heat, but there are just so many layers you can take off to get cool

[@michaelsorensen7567]

Especially with sulphuric acids in the air lol

[@noirekuroraigami2270]

but gravity and radiation is not that easy to beat

[@CryptoIncursion]

You make Venus sound like a paradise haha this is a great idea!

[@MrAztra]

The magnitude of this project, resources needed, and the lack of capability via current technology make this an unviable plan.

[@jakubznojemsky4936]

It's quite interesting idea but I would still prefer dark freezy martian bunkers within radioactive desert because just like you said Venus lacks water and metals with other materials would be out of reach as well while enviroment is acidic so Mars might be cruel but manageable with current engineering while Venus still seems like castle in the skies

[@deshaughnmolette9205]

Actually, there's water vapor in the atmosphere of Venus

[@jakubznojemsky4936]

@@deshaughnmolette9205 That would be usefull. Still mining ice seems easier than water vapour. Filtering or condensation might be way to get other elements as well but whole endeavour would require lot of chemistry. Not a fan of that I would still prefer finding way how to get enough energy to mine the thing in its solid and frozen state.

[@heretic-668]

Venus doesn't completely lack Hydrogen, either, the Sulfuric acid clouds do have it, meaning in theory you could harvest it. This, I think, is referenced when he talks about it being expensive/explosive to manufacture water. One thing Venus definitely has is energy. As well, if carbon nanotubes become a thing, you have a basically infinite supply of carbon you could scoop up and process for industry. One thing he didn't talk about that you definitely can't get enough of on Venus though is Nitrogen - that'd have to be imported and carefully recycled for agricultural purposes.

[@slabrankle9588]

I'd choose Mars any day. With properly designed habitats and excursion suits radiation wouldn't be a problem, and I'd rather deal with that than with an acid atmosphere. Also, you could walk on the surface of Mars and do interesting things like habitat construction, resource extraction, areology, and microbial studies, if any are found. The possibilities are endless compared to floating around in a blimp city on a hell world like Venus. I would visit, though. I imagine the casinos would be nice.

[@LloydWaldo]

But energy is way more plentiful on Venus. Just in terms of the gross logistics of a colony, it makes sense to go where there is more energy.

[@Russo-Delenda-Est]

Unfortunately you could only stay on mars for a few months before the low gravity destroys your body, and a woman could never come to term there, so no martian children. As a place to visit, research and mine it could work, but a colony isn't possible. At the end of the day, gravity is all that really matters, everything else is secondary. So Venus is the only planet in our solar system capable of having a colony.

[@slabrankle9588]

@@LloydWaldo Energy is plentiful on Mars. Sunlight is adequate, and there's uranium, which you can't get on Venus because the surface is unattainable. Water is of greater concern and there's far more of it on Mars.

[@johntowers1213]

you think you can raise a family in 1/3 gravity? you fancy dealing with the massive developmental issues around birthing and raising humans in 1/3 of the gravity their bodies were designed for? raising a new form of humans that could never return to earth?

[@slabrankle9588]

@@johntowers1213 If human beings are chained to earth-like conditions forever then we might as well pack it in right now and admit defeat. We'll never get anywhere. With the right enhancements and augmentations human beings could thrive in low gravity and other adverse conditions. The problem isn't low gravity, it's how limited and fragile human beings are. We will have to become much tougher if we're to have any chance of becoming a multi planetary species. We'll have to become superhuman in every sense of the word.

[@isaacgraff8288]

Cloud City on Venus sounds like a fantastic setting for a sci-fi game or show.

[@MusicAutomation]

I'd want to skip to the cutscene where someone gets pushed off the city and disintegrates into ash before they reach the ground.

[@nolan4339]

I am eagerly waiting for a colony builder sim to explore the concept.

[@DrownedInExile]

Fascinating. Reminds me of an old anime "Venus Wars", where an ice-rich asteroid impacted Venus. The resulting nuclear winter cooled the planet enough for terraforming and eventual colonization.

[@SlurpinDerp]

Great, now I want a Venus colonisation game.

[@skypaladin9878]

Personally, I want to create a mortal engines society on Mars, and I think the lower gravity will make moving megastructures more feasible

[@kieranharper261]

Mars has fascinated me since I was a little kid. I had every book I could find about mars, watched every documentary and pbs special. My personal biggest dream is to see humans walk on Mars, but I'm also a realist, and venus just makes more sense. That is unless we find accessible water on Mars, that would be the only game changer

[@marklacombe2671]

Well when the sun expands and engulfs the first 3 planets that's going to be a bit of a problem. Looking outward and beyond is the only way. In 500 million years it's estimated that the sun will be 80+ degrees hotter. The oceans will be gone and everything here will die. We may have billions of years left with our sun. But the older it gets the more inhospitable it will make places in our solar system.

[@krisgonynor689]

They found water ice on Mars already: a recent large meteor strike, near the Martian, left behind a crater and what turned out to be a lot of water ice thrown out of the ground on impact. Unless the meteor was mostly ice, then there is water ice just below the surface. I always felt that as Mars cooled down, it's lakes and seas would freeze, then get covered over by sand and dust storms and this seems to help show that happened. Long before the air got so thin that the water vapor would evaporate into space, it would have become so cold that any water would have froze solid.

[@clash3583]

there is enough water on mars near the surface to cover the entire planet, even outside the polar ice caps there are ice deposts underground and even liquid brine venus on the other hand has no water at all

[@chouseification]

Every "let's colonize Venus" brainstorm always overlooks the key reason for colonization - expansion. Since you cannot easily retrieve the materials from Venus' surface, all of our construction activity would be limited to the air in the atmosphere we could collect and turn into other things... being extremely careful to balance buoyancy the entire time, and dealing with amazing storms the likes of which we don't have here. The simple reality is Venus would require Star Trek or beyond level of technology to properly even begin to alter the global climate - until such a time, one would be limited to essentially lonely outposts struggling to survive... clearly with no real capacity to expand. Going to Mars and living in a tunnel city makes 1000 times more sense... Venus may be useful in the long term, but it's almost _completely_ useless for us now since we have no way of getting to the surface and must limit ourselves to the thin upper atmosphere.

[@Russo-Delenda-Est]

Only there's not enough gravity on mars to live there for more than a few months, maybe a year or two, and children could never be safely born there, so it can't become self sufficient. Only gravity matters in the long run, any other problems could be solved or worked around.

[@chouseification]

@@Russo-Delenda-Est well that's a completely illogical thing to assert like that, especially considering that we've only had issues with microgravity - living on Mars would be more than enough for our systems to compensate, even if it resulted in a slightly different body form for future generations. However, to assert that we can't live on Mars... sorry, go to the corner - absolutely wrong on all levels!

[@Russo-Delenda-Est]

@@chouseification it's a miracle that most fetuses can come to term in perfect conditions. Its irresponsible and obtuse to assume that a baby could survive one third the gravity. Even adults would lose their heart muscle and eyesight in a few months. Read a little biology before making a fool of yourself bud. We are very finely tuned machines, even the slight gravity change on Venus MIGHT be too much to allow for safe procreation.

[@chouseification]

@@Russo-Delenda-Est this is not a conspiracy bubble. Go away immediately!!!

[@Russo-Delenda-Est]

@Random Guy the lower gravity on mars will make it great for mining and manufacturing, but probably by robots, not us. We've spent the last 3 or 4ish billion years evolving to live in our current gravity. With enough genetic engineering and cybernetics we could live anywhere, but why bother? Just build a station in orbit, spin it up to earth gravity, and save yourself the trouble. In a few hundred years we might have the medicines, nanobots, or super DNA neccessary... or we could just build a space station tomorrow (figuratively). A healthy adult might be able to live there some day, with a lot of drugs and exercise, but a pregnancy in anything other than standard earth gravity is most likely a death sentence for the child AND the mother. At least that's my somewhat pessimistic take on things. 🤷‍♂️

[@rcavicchijr]

The funnest part is that you could glide around like an air bender between platforms with the right equipment.

[@jimmyscreen]

12:39 honestly, prefer the moon myself. But maybe as a stepping stone before a holiday on Venus, mars might be fun for experience and exploration... Who wouldn't want to be the first 'Uber' on Mars 😂

[@LordTimothious]

Earth will always be the jewel. No matter how far we may go. She will always be Home. Now that were evolving emotionally these days. I think we have earned the opportunities we as a species are creating. Its these ideas much like this video that make me see immortality as, not much of a curse. :)

[@wildewilde5775]

I've never understood the appeal of going to Mars. It's a dead planet. No amount of nuking or other forms of Terra forming will work. The magnetic field is dead or close to dead. A viable atmosphere wouldn't last without the protection of the planets magnetic field. As far as I know, we have no way to restore a planets magnetic field.

[@clash3583]

atmospheric loss takes place over geological time scales. If you teleported an earth like atmosphere on mars right now, it wouldnt disappear for hundreds of thousands of years

[@matheussandbakk9959]

True, there’s sadly no way of restoring its magnetosphere unless we basically hit it with a moon. However there’s the full potential for an artificial magnetosphere using electromagnets powered by lets say radioactive materials. We don’t have the technology yet, but there seems to be research on the subject as it’s theoretically viable, we just haven’t put the money into developing such technology just yet

[@alien9279]

I'd be worried about big storms and stuff that could distrust a potential cloud city.

[@ineffable0ne]

Unlike a normal city, a cloud city could just steer around the storm - and that's assuming storms are even a problem to worry about when you're 50km up.

[@feldgeist2637]

quit the storms and all the excess heat by shielding the orbit of Venus with giant foil reflectors for a bit 😆 ey, crazier schemes have been cooked up for terraforming Mars.....despite him not being capable of keeping an atmosphere....

[@Wayoutthere]

You are moving WITH the atmosphere really, you won't even notice wind. Like in hot air balloons today, they fly eerily quiet (when being in one).

[@nolan4339]

@@Wayoutthere It is the turbulence and wind shear that you really need to worry about. Likely the colony would need to cushion the passengers from these possible jarring motions and be able to structurally withstand them.

[@kennyholmes5196]

That's nice... How are you gonna deal with the sulfuric acid rain, or the heating and cooling stressing the balloons until they pop, causing the platform to fall down into the hellishly hot depths?

[@brauljo]

5:01 Where would all that water come from? Would it be recycled?