A Critique of Homestuck Act 1

How well is Homestuck Act 1 written, find out in this monstrosity of a video that took me too many months to make.
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Find the Unnofical collection here: bambosh.github.io/unofficial-...
The official site for Homestuck: www.homestuck.com/
The amazing dub by Voxus: / voxus
List of tracks used, with timestamps pastebin.com/YACGw978
Chapters Timestamps
00:00:00 Intro
00:04:30 Naming John
00:10:34 John's Introduction
00:12:28 The Cursor
00:14:05 Sylladex Introduction
00:17:33 The Power of the Narreader
00:19:21 The Old Version of Homestuck
00:21:14 Dave and the Apple Juice
00:24:44 The Strife Deck
00:29:49 Size Limits on Chapchalogue Cards
00:30:36 John's Number of Cards
00:33:26 A Different Side of John
00:35:32 Music and Alliteration in Strife
00:38:20 John Merges Cakes For Some Reason
00:39:22 Mathew horse noise
00:42:56 What is the Queue Modus
00:43:57 John Forgets How to Place Things Down
00:45:32 Sylladex Launching Inconsistences
00:49:42 Sburb Basics Explained
00:54:55 Why are the Disks Separated
00:57:06 What Is Known About Sburb Before the Today
00:59:46 When Does Sburb Create Holes
01:02:58 GameFAQs and the State of the Writers
01:06:44 No One Cares That the World is Ending
01:09:36 My Favorite Joke
01:11:25 The Bathroom is Extremely Contrived
01:12:25 Rose Introduction
01:14:08 Rose Wastes Time Saving John Part 1
01:15:22 The Tree Modus is Dumb Part 1
01:16:23 Rose Wastes Time Saving John Part 2
01:17:37 The Tree Modus is Dumb Part 2
01:23:16 Timer Inconsistencies
01:24:50 The Basic Process of Alchemy
01:25:52 The Final Animation
01:26:25 Conclusions on the Characters
01:30:13 Conclusions on Plot Progression
01:31:15 Conclusions on World Building
01:32:52 Conclusions Miscellaneous
01:33:43 Final Conclusions
01:34:42 The Future of This Channel
01:36:34 Let me Convince You to Read Homestuck
01:41:16 Voxus Highlights
Thank you so much for Watching

[@primordialaspect]

Feel free to comment. I will read every single one unless I somehow get thousands a day, which is unlikely.

[@dudetteYOUTUBE]

I just made 2 videos going through homestuck act 1 and 2 and this video helped me so much to understand what was going on lol. I felt stupid the first time I read it and didn't really understand a lot about even act 1 and rereading homestuck as an adult, I felt more confused about not being able to make sense of it. I definitely missed the (joke?) about the stack modus being the same as the Queue, I thought they were the same thing but didn't wanna mention it out loud due to thinking I just misunderstood something. But no, I guess I didn't. Thanks for making the errors clear, so I don't always have to blame myself for not getting it lol.

[@xTheOneToSaveUsAllx]

"Does it continue to work around John when he leaves the house? Because if so, it would make robbing banks pretty easy" finally, a homestuck analysis reaches the right conclusion.

[@Kirbyster]

Even though I disagree with many of the nitpicks you have with Act 1, I'm very sad to hear that you will not be continuing this series. As you said at the beginning of the video, there are essentially 0 other creators making videos about Homestuck as a story, rather they are usually about the making of it, what it was like to read it, or some sort of fanwork. This video was well made, and had a lot of foresight when examining setups that are followed through with in later acts. I plan on rereading Homestuck in the next year or so to make my own video about it,. I'm hoping that my efforts will be able to fill the void of analytical content about Homestuck's story and themes on KZbin.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you =)

[@Forcoy]

I assume that plan didn't go through

[@MarkusIfquil]

I always felt like Homestuck was meant to be deconstructed and picked apart because of its massive amounts of worldbuilding and attention to detail, and this scratched the itch I had for so long, so thank you, this is incredibly based.

[@johnman8398]

This comment is to do with you remarking that people have rose tinted glasses about homestuck and I agree with that sentiment to an extent but not completely. If we are talking acts 1-5 then yeah people have heavy bias towards it but, its no secret if you've been in the fandom for a while that act 6 till the end is heavily critised to the point where people want to forget it exists and in some cases people say the story is ruined because of those acts.

[@primordialaspect]

I guess I should have been more specific, I was referring to the first few Acts. I agree that act 6 is rightly criticized in several places. But nobody really talks about Act 1 when it is far more significant as it is the beginning of the story

[@3psilon674]

people treat act 6 like its some shitty fanfic but i think its good, honestly act 5 - 6 are the best acts in my opinion.

[@sillyYata]

People always act like act 6 is so bad and so slow as if that isnt the point, to show the tedium of living in this situation for as long as the characters have

[@FirstnameLastname-sb3hj]

​@@sillyYatathats not really an excuse, though. just because it works on a thematic level doesnt mean it was intended, and even if it was it doesnt mean everyone has to accept it. personally, i think homestuck is a series of great ideas trapped in a bad comic which (despite its size) is too small to contain all of them.

[@trunkssoliz]

Way too much effort put into this video to only have 1.6k views right now. Really hope this starts getting more views. You really deserve it

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you so much. I was shocked when it reached 400 on the first day, when my hope was for at least 100 by next 4/13. I guess I underestimated either myself or the homestuck fan base interest in this format, maybe both. At this point, I dont know what to expect, I'm just happy others are enjoying it. Also as a funny side note your comment appeared in my notifications as "way to much effort put into this video..." so I was excepting something far more negative when I clicked to see the whole thing.

[@Nate303]

Behold my robes is a top tier homestuck moment. Glad to see it in your highlights.

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks

[@Jummy]

An absolutely outstanding video! Amazingly well and tightly edited, especially considering its length. I completely understand not continuing this “series,” because completing it in this amount of detail would no doubt require several times your natural lifespan and an ungodly amount of (probably misplaced) willpower. So! Just know that I throughly enjoyed this content and am perfectly content letting it stand on its own. Best of luck to you on your future projects!

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you so much. You really made my day.

[@yin9008]

This was a really enjoyable watch! I really appreciate how you tried to make it accessible to people who haven't read Homestuck. Definitely deserves more views.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you, it already has more views than I thought it would ever get

[@ugovillemalard4218]

I'll be in your audience if you ever decide to continue diving in the other acts thank you for the great video

[@AnnieBee43]

This is really impressive and absolutely something i've been looking for for years. cannot wait to see more.

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks

[@Quedsedash]

29:49 being able to pick up items that are very large and heavy is a special property of the wallet modi

[@primordialaspect]

As far as I know that is never stated, and it should be considering how plot significant this function is. And even if it was stated somewhere, then the criticism would shift to the wallet modus. Why is the wallet so special. Also it sure is lucky john just so happened to have one of the few Modi that could captchalogue large objects, otherwise john couldnt get the tumor.

[@primordialaspect]

Something that just came to mind is that Jade captchalogues the fourth wall, something many times her size and weight. Can the scribble modus also carry large objects? What about when Jake had one of the spherical rooms from his house capchalouged. That thing was huge. It seems to me things are inconsistent

[@craeons]

@@primordialaspect It's a joke on the idea that dads have a lot of things in their wallets, I think? I don't actually know if that's the reasoning, but the idea that Dad Egbert had a modus which could carry fuckton huge things made sense to me, so I think it's based on something even if I can't remember what it is exactly anymore...

[@primordialaspect]

Well even if it is based off of something if it doesn't make sense in Universe then it is a problem

[@danielgriffin3427]

I actually think possibly the god-tier status is relevant to consider too. Maybe reaching god-tier, granting increased ability to carry or move objects is what improves the function of the fetch-modus?

[@coolmanbritt]

I started with Homestuck abridged. It skips a few details but made the story much more easy to understand. They even reference that dave is referred to as TG by john because he forgot his name.

[@primordialaspect]

I've seen that, homestuck abridged fixes a lot of problems homestuck has, although I still prefer the story of homestuck over the abridged version.

[@Zmax15]

This is just the kind of content i need in my life. Can't wait for whatever else you make

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks.

[@jacqueline373]

lovely video! i like how precise and detailed you were with all of your points~ very interesting! i’ve been itching to reread homestuck and i think this is the push i needed to dive back in~ thank you for the time and effort you put into this!

[@GibusWearingMann]

The cursor is a relic of the "Homestuck Beta", a failed first attempt to write Homestuck which exclusively used Flash animations and interactives. In that version, you do actually move the cake with your mouse. (This isn't to address your critique, I'm just adding context.)

[@primordialaspect]

I do actually mention that once you get to the page that links the beta

[@GibusWearingMann]

@@primordialaspect oh oof rip me

[@primordialaspect]

Don't worry about it

[@nexus_113]

very entertaining watch! wish i had found this when it was posted. i read homestuck not too long ago (i would say 2 ish years ago now?) and ive always wanted to see a breakdown like this! wonderful video, loved the editing also!!

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you. The editing was the most difficult part as I had never done anything like it before. The writing was easier, as I've critiques stories for years prior, it rarely left my head. But it was still a lot of work, I think I went through around 7 or so drafts. It was worth it, I'm proud of what I made.

[@itsboku]

I’ve been waiting for a video like this to come out. Pls keep this up ✌🏽🤩

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you =)

[@ashleyw5009]

Absolutely brilliant! Love this 💙👍👌

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you for the compliment

[@CuantumQ]

42:44 A small note about Automata. While it could in theory be about building robots, given that John is interested more in CompSci (software) than Computer Engineering (hardware), the more likely thing is that it's referring to mathmatic automata. Mathmatic automata is a math concept that's used in computer science, both directly implemented and as a general design concept. It's called automata because it involves setting up rules for how a thing will automatically traverse through a map. Automata can be used to make things such as logic gates, to help keep track of logic, or to help design logic.

[@peste8585]

It's literally midnight and i couldn't stop watching your video, would love to see more

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you

[@JunoRWf]

9:51 personally I think that it was better knowing nothing at the start so when stuff actually start happening it catches you off guard because, at any moment something could just *happen* again.

[@primordialaspect]

Whether you think my examples are good you can at least admit that there should be some hook to make audience want to keep reading. At least something rather then a poop joke

[@hoorenglish5732]

Oh Homestuck Critique, how I adore thee.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you =)

[@Mimikyurem]

I started reading Homestuck a few months ago when I was stuck at home due to quarantine. While I don't think Act 1 is the worst act, I do think I would've stopped reading it if I had literally anything better to do.

[@primordialaspect]

What act would you say is worse.

[@MitchPlease]

@@primordialaspect act 6

[@primordialaspect]

Well I dont agree. Sure act six has a lot of issues, dont get me started on the recon powers, but there is still a lot of good stuff in there. Like the intermissions on the meteor. Act 1 on the other hand has almost no redeaming qualities. But I will say that I haven't looked at act 6 too deeply, it might be worse than i remember

[@MitchPlease]

@@primordialaspect I think act 6 has the worst parts of homestuck. Immediately following the masterpiece Cascade, the intro to B-universe was very slow paced and the relationships between their group there was way more frustrating. And it went on for very long. It definitely had its highs too don't get me wrong, but I feel like it went off the rails in act 6. Act 1 was a good transition between Problem Sleuth and homestuck, highlighting the differences such as the inclusion of sound, while also keeping some of the silly ridiculous humor even when not quite appropriate for the tone trying to be conveyed. I agree the hook is not so great but for a returning MSPA reader it would be familiar. In that way Act 1 is almost a vehicle for getting the stupid shit mostly squared away before going to try and tell this new story. But it's been a while since I've read and I haven't finished the video so I defer to your expertise.

[@primordialaspect]

Im interested if your mind will be changed by the video I wouldn't be surprised if there is a part of act 6 that is worse that act 1. But if we are talking about things as a whole, act 1 is far worse

[@beetlehorn]

This just came up in my algorithm, but homestuck was most of my high school years. Really hope you continue this series into Act 2 and beyond.

[@Rednetthall2]

can't wait for Act 2 critique

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks I guess, it is not outside the realm of possibility

[@cyberpunk-2O77]

Imagine trying to logic-out hitchhikers guide, or any of Terry Pratchett's acclaimed discworld novels. It's a cosmic comedy.

[@primordialaspect]

I assume you are saying that I shouldn't "logic-out" homestuck for the same reason. Sadly it's been too long since I've ready hitchhikers guide, and I've never read Discworld. Can you explain your criticism in more detail

[@cyberpunk-2O77]

@@primordialaspect I appreciated your video for pointing out the inconsistencies and self-contradictions, but as a cosmic comedy people in them as in a lot of fiction don't tend to behave as we would, while at the same time it does allow them to take things seriously when it matters, as any matter of drama. Rose simultaneously being annoyed by the mechanism of her impractical storage methods and appreciating it's aesthetics aren't entirely unlike people with any sort of white-elephant gift, or impractical thing that generates a lot of work for them for subjectively little gain: purebred pets that shed tremendously and have health problems, raising houseplants that add to your tasks, large and uncomfortable pieces of art that take up space, etc. To use logic in it, or to try and expose inconsistencies, is a fruitless effort because first and foremost it is fiction and never claims to be remotely functioning on the rules of nonfiction. Things will be unwieldy, but it is the job of the audience to swallow that pill of disbelief and accept that this is how the universe is. If everyone is acting normally in context, such a thing isn't strange or unusual comparatively speaking, or at least not odd to four shut-ins. It can be done, but at the cost of souring the experience by applying our rules and values to what isnt our existence. The first act serves to flesh out the personalities of the four beta kids, give them (somewhat superficial) interests. I could go individually and respond to each observation you made at another point, out of respect for the effort you put in, but for now that's what I have to say.

[@primordialaspect]

@@cyberpunk-2O77 Sorry for the late reply, I've been a bit busy and I want to give you a in dept response. First things first, comparing the tree modus to a pet that shreds is completely disproportionate. the tree modus makes every action you take in your live far more inconvenient. I think a better comparison is someone for some reason deciding to tie one arm behind their back their whole life, but even that would be more convenient than the tree modus. But regardless of that, there are many reasons one might want a pure bread pet, or a large art work, such things give you status. But rose is never given a reason for using the tree modus, and that is the problem I have with it. Now on to your other point. you say that it's okay that the story doesn't make sense because it's fiction. First of all, way to go discrediting all the creators that put years into their stories, trying to make a world that is realistic. Lord of the Rings, 12 Angry Men, Star Wars a New Hope, The Godfather, Wall-E, and so many more. Are you honestly saying that all those stories are just as valuable and well written as The Room, or Troll 2, or Cats. there is a range in play here, there isn't just good movies and bad movies, there are movies that are just average, or mostly good, but what separates them from one another. It's simple, it's how consistent the movies are at following their own rules. If the story creates logical rules, then those rules must be upheld, and if there are no logical rules, than logic can be ignored. And being a cosmic comedy doesn't change that. a story with elements far different from our own ordinary lives only means that there are possibly more rules in place, and if those rules are logic based, then that logic should be upheld. You might be wondering why then, why is it important to consistently follow rules when they exist in the story. On a basic level, if a rule is established and not followed or used in any way then all time spent on it is a waste, and I think you can agree that time wasted in a movie is not good. But more importantly consistency is the medium of the 4 pillars of story telling, character, plot, world, and theme. I seriously doubt you are going to try to argue that there can't be a character arc in a cosmic comedy. Now image a scenario where said arc is completely nonsensical, the character acts completely irrational and the story seems to not even notice, in fact it acts like the character is completely reasonable. Perhaps if this character was used for comedy things would be different, but in this example that isn't the case. can you honestly tell me that character isn't a bad edition to the story. Of course I'm not saying that homestuck is bad to this extent, but like I said, this is a range. If there exists a extremely badly written character in a story, then it's possible for a character to be a little bad, or mostly bad, or just average, and it doesn't matter the genre. And of course this isn't an all or nothing deal, you could have a nonsensical world, and logical characters. As long as there are no contradictions then it's fine. The suspension of disbelief is also not an all or nothing deal. I've always enjoyed the analogy of a stamina bar. as more and more unbelievable things happen in the story, the bar decreases until finally you can't invest yourself in the story any more. Some peoples bar is larger than others. But I think you know all this, after all you said it yourself. "If everyone is acting normally in context, such a thing isn't strange or unusual comparatively speaking." Right here you have completely destroyed your argument. What is acting normally, what is normal, what decides that. it's a rule. by judging how normal a character is acting, you are applying the rules and values of the story. You say that " The first act serves to flesh out the personalities of the four beta kids." How is such a thing possible without rules, without logic, without consistency. Character traits are a series of rules that character follows. I argue that it goes against Roses character to use the tree modus, it isn't "Normal." it goes against her personality, unless we are given a good reason for it, which we are not. if we are meant to relate to the characters in homestuck, then said characters must be understandable. And yet I don't understand why many characters do what they do in act 1. That is bad.

[@sketch4363]

I had this video on well I slept and I had homestuck related dreams. Really well made video

[@Sinetheballwoman]

I really enjoyed this thank you.

[@natileroxs5226]

I respect the dedication to even getting this video out. A lot of your critiques on early Homestuck and its inconsistent tone I agree with, and there is a little too much time-wasting near the end. I also appreciate how you explained the data structures, although now I wish you'd do act 2 just for a clear explanation of whatever the fuck Dave's one is. I love how you discuss some of the more serious or eerie moments of the comic (ie, 33:32 which is an underrated flash). 1:09:36 I agree this is one of the best jokes in the whole comic and I have it specifically bookmarked in my physical copy of act one. Good job on this video, I hope one day in the future you decide to pursue this topic again.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you, this comment is really nice. As thanks, I'll explain how Dave's modus works Here is what the comic says "Your modus's current HASH FUNCTION resolves the index by valuing each consonant at 2, and each vowel at 1. The total is divided by your number of cards, and the remainder is the index. BOX = 2 + 1 + 2 = 5 5 % 10 = 5 The BOX is captchalogued in card 5." The first part is self explanatory get a number from the name of the item, consonants are 2 vowels are 1, add them up and you have a number. It's the second part that confuses people. Let's imagine you have 14 items that you want to split evenly among 10 people. Obviously you cant do that. Each person will get 1, and there will be 4 left over. This 4, is the remainder. But "what is the remainder when I divide 14 by 10." Is rather long, so people simplify it into a short equation. 14 % 10 = _. This % is called a modulo, and it is used frequently in programing. Alas hussie failed to clue readers on that little detail. If you understand what it is, the modus isnt that complicated. Although, it is still needlessly so. If you want a quick shortcut for Dave's modus, just look at the rightmost digit of the item's number, that will always be the remainder when you mod it with 10, as dave always has 10 cards. For example 1235 % 10 = 5, 584747474763333678533778 % 10 = 8, 100000000000000006 % 10 = 6. Of course this is peanuts to the much larger issue, that every time dave speaks his words are fed into the equation and an item is launched out. Forcing him to living the life of a mute. It gives the tree modus a run for its money in the convenience department.

[@NixiShavalMusic]

Excited to see your thoughts on act 2! I don't think I ever noticed the constant issues with perspective until you pointed it out. I personally would like to imagine that the cursor is a secondary representation of certain things done by the characters in the comic regarding certain gui elements used and such (syladex and suburb gui) to make things easier to follow in a way.

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks for the comment. If the cursor was used consistently then your view would work. Personally, I think it should be removed entirely. It doesnt add much to the story beyond confusion

[@NixiShavalMusic]

@@primordialaspect understandable, and I do agree that its incredibly inconsistent, to me personally fully removing it seems a bit hasty, a couple tweaks could've made it better than it was and I still feel it helps visually follow certain actions early on in the story

[@aalulaart9011]

you need way more views for this, I really appreciate this video

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you

[@brassandbean3682]

This was a great analysis! I can tell you put a lot of time and effort into it. I can definitely see the MauLer inspiration that another comment brought up. I’d really enjoy critiques of the later acts or maybe on other stories from you, but I understand if that would be too time consuming. Life stuff should always be prioritized over a KZbin channel. I was wondering, have you read Hussie’s most recent story: Psycholonials? I’m a fan of Homestuck, but I really did not enjoy Psycholonials. Most reviews I’ve seen are positive (though there aren’t many) so I’m curious to hear what you think if you read it

[@primordialaspect]

Your in luck. As the game was coming out I wrote down my impressions of it in a discord group im a part of. Here is the conclusion to the game I wrote "Psycolonials ending is terrible, it is a huge exposition dump that attempts to fix a fundamentally broken game, motivations are given for all of Z's actions as it tries to paint her in a positive light, "all she wanted was attention, so she started world war III and had millions of people killed. but don't worry is was all the dream alien's fault." Not to mention that "reasons" for her movement are very childish. Sometimes a bad police officer kills someone innocent, so all police officers should die. Americans killed native Americans several hundred years, so Americans of the present day should be punished. All billionaires are evil, because they have money. Capitalism is bad, period." What do they wish to replace this "flawed" system with. We are never told, we don't know what the clowns believe in, Hussie is unable to think of a better system than what we currently have, so he hand waves it away. This clown religion is very surface level, we don't even have a basic understanding of how it functions. Why do they follow Z? When are never given a reason beyond the time she punched someone into the ocean, ordered people to do her job for her, and gave a very clunky speech. Yet despite no evidence of her charisma, or teaching of the religion, we are meant to believe that that all those people follow her. Not to mention all the set ups with no pay off, why was she canceled in the past, why is she seeing the ghosts of her parents, what is with the psychic damage bar, how did her father die. In the end we don't even find out what happens to america, only that the clown ruler keeps dying and being replaced. Then we are told "Love heals all" what a shit show" I still stand by my conclusion. Truthfully I hate the subject matter in the game, and it literally makes me sick to my stomach how depressing it was. Of every game I've ever finished, it is the one I hate the most. And I would have stopped after chapter 2 if it wasn't made by hussie. I thought of making a video about it, but that would require me playing the game again, which just sound torturous.

[@brassandbean3682]

@@primordialaspect Glad to see I’m not the only one who hated it. I watched someone else read it, and I’m glad I did since it costed her ten bucks. Gave me a headache. The story comes off as so cynical and bitter. Big appeal of Homestuck is its humor which Psycholonials completely lacks. The best part of the story for me was the fact that Z had a Karkat poster because that reminded me of a well written character. Also, I skipped some chapters because I got impatient, so it’s good to know things like what Z was cancelled over or her dad’s ghost are never explained. I agree with your conclusion 100%

[@oliverhealey5098]

this video is rekindling my love for homestuck. i was OBSESSED around 2012-2015 and only distanced myself due to the dying fandom and generally aging out of the remaining kids just finding it. i would have devoured a series like that then, and considering i made it through this video in one sitting i guess it's apparent i would devour it all the same now. now i want to re-read the whole thing!!

[@primordialaspect]

I'm glad to hear this. I've worried that I've only had only damaged homestuck with this video.

[@TrackpadTimmy]

the whole situation at 1:11:26 can also be nitpicked further: bedroom doors open inwards. he would have been able to open his door still, just with a bathtub in the way that he'd have to mount over which should be easy enough at 42:43, automata is probably more related to computer science automata (like cellular automata, conway's game of life) rather than building robots the very small critique about rose wanting to clean john's house while her own room is unclean, that's at least something that i've done before. it's a lot easier to do things for other people than the same thing for myself yknow

[@primordialaspect]

It's funny you mention the door. I had that in my script for a long time, but I removed it because I found it plausible that when Nanasprite put the door back she flipped it's direction for the bucket prank. There is no laws about which directions doors turn, and it also isn't the only door to open outwards, Dave's does the same www.homestuck.com/story/1563, it could just be a difference between that universe and ours. Ss for automata, I had never heard of that. it isn't the first definition of the word. But it doesn't really matter since it's still an advanced subject which was my point. But that is interesting to know For Rose's cleaning habits, I still think that should be mentioned. Personally I've found my drive to clean is proportional to the amount of time I spend in a place. I have to have my room clean, but the guest bathroom I can ignore.

[@staircaseofkneecaps783]

homestuck

[@primordialaspect]

Indeed

[@hsd6716]

homestuck

[@tacenda3250]

@@primordialaspect homestuck

[@goldensun2787]

Homestuck

[@Drozos]

beautiful video, strangely i came out with an even greater appreciation of act 1

[@primordialaspect]

That is interesting and I'm glad you like it

[@pipidowkarz]

thank you so much for this video. i can't believe you spent six months on it and didnt quit trough. you are the first person i see saying what came to my mind when i, more or less, found out how does homestuck work, had led to me quitting reading it, and is actually frustrating me to this day : that homestuck makes character's choices unlogical to the point you cannot be sure if they're sadists or its just a joke or whatever, and at the same time wants you to care about the characters. im not sure if this was intentional, but i think what you said at the beggining applies to the whole comic, not only act 1. your video is not only masterful technically but also gave me a load of hope, because i was so worried and confused about the whole fandom ignoring character's horrible actions, same as the narrative does actually, i think, because as i said i didn't actually read the whole homestuck, the minority of it actually. it also reminded me about what i love about homestuck, i dont like the word "nostalgic", but it would sum up my feelings pretty good. i had no idea homestuck dub existed, i will definitely check it out someday, maybe it will make getting accurately acquaintated with homestuck as whole possible for me, since i, can't believe again it took me so long, just realised because of your mention that part of the feeling that the characters are emontionless is because their dialogues lack any commentary, and actual voice acting would probably remove that issue since its filled with emotion, altough its somehow being only led with this project's athours' interpretation of it, but thats still way better. the only thing i dont agree with on your video, but its kinda subjective so im not sure if this counts as not agreeing, is that i actually really enjoyed act 1, i was drawn to it by the first couple of panels. i don't get how people complain that it's so boring, of course i respect that opinion but i definitely would not relate. heck, one of my best if not the best memories is reading the first acts, not knowing what is going to happen with these characters and what are the trolls like yet. altough that was probably because i didnt understand most of what was happening (due to its complicated mechanics, hard words and english not being my native language, i just ignored most of the words i didnt understand unless they seemed interesting to me or i was trying to understand some phrase that i thought was important, so i was just happily avoiding most of things that would cause me to question characters' or, the author's, sanity), well god i didn't even manage to understand some things of this summary. but everything i fully understood that was said in here was making sense, and helped me understand act first. i'm thankful you pointed out things you pointed out, i'm actually relieved someone did. i would give this 462 likes if i could. sorry for my inability to summarize and grammar mistakes if i did any.

[@primordialaspect]

It's totally fine if you like homestuck act 1, my subjective opinion of it has fluctuated wildly over the years. As for whether it is boring or not, that is 100% subjective. I don't find it boring at the very least, but that isn't relevant to the objective points I made in the video. I think the most important realization i had when it comes to media criticism is the separation of objective and subjective. the fact that if I like something it doesn't mean it's objectively well written, and that I shouldn't feel emotionally attacked when people point out problems with the things I like. I think that if more people realized this, then media discussion would become a lot more constructive. Thank you so much for the nice comment. You really made me smile.

[@pipidowkarz]

@@primordialaspect woah, i dont think i was paying attention to separating subjective and objective in critisism too much, besides basic statements like "that sounds too subjective", so ill note that. thank you once again as well for the advice and also for being so nice to everyone in here, seeing people discussing about something they're passionate about instead of wars in the comments is something i did not expect to see in homestuck related media. (although i didnt read them whole yet but im planning to because this seems hella interesting). AND you credited everything you used, wow. if you're gonna upload another video someday, i will totally watch it, but if not, that is absolutely fine this channel still will be so cool.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you

[@stages_of_mania]

while I do admit there are a some points that feel a bit like nitpicks, the spirit of critiquing homestuck’s story rather than analyzing it’s themes (some of are likely just consequential and not planned) is something that HS’s KZbin community definitely needed. While everyone always jokes about how bad the comic is, it’s refreshing to finally see genuine cases being made pointing out the flaws as opposed to the basics arguments like Vriska bad (she’s not absolved of sin tho)

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks. I know I make nit picks, but nit picks aren't invalid criticism. On their own, they can be nothing more than a minor speck, but surrounded by dozens of others you can start to pull together patterns on how the story was written as a whole. Enough of them could lead to a death by a thousand cuts like situation. There were some nit picks that I didn't put in the script because I left there were not relevant to the other points I've made, and would require too long to explain. Still thank you for the compliment. I would have a lot to say about vriska if I critiqued her part of the story. Act 5 vriska is one of my favorite characters. Act 6 vriska is one of my least.

[@DERADI30]

This problem I have with this critique is that it looks at act one in retrospective, with knowledge of what homestuck would become in the years after act one was written. Act one is a suggestion based comic that, while building up an intriguing setting in the background,mostly plays out like a DnD session with hussie as the gamemaster and the internet collectively as the players. Sure, it is eccentric and weird, but it has its own charm. Most of my experience with this video was you mentioning a joke, me going "i remember this joke, that was pretty funny", followed by you critiquing the punchline as a story beat. Homestuck's beginning, middle (till act 6) and later part (act 6 and after)share the (arguably) same characters and a continuous storyline, which can negatively impact the reading experience when the whole thing morphs into something different than it was before. To me early homestuck is a very enjoyable light read that has a overall humorous tone that i enjoy even when individual jokes aren't laugh-out-loud-funny. This is different from the reasons i like the parts that come later, and i think neither the early nor the later writing benefit from this stylistic shift, but since i like both it doesn't negatively impact my opinion on either either. (I'm sorry for the grammar here but i have no idea on how to prompt a translator to tell me how to write it correctly) In contrast i do not enjoy major parts of act 6, and while i would probably categorize it as "maybe alright writing that just isn't for me" without the context, the fact that it is the official continuation of a story i love makes me deeply despise it.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you for the comment. I’m a little confused about your comment, you say you have a problem with my critique, but you don’t list any criticisms. I can only assume that your sentences are the criticisms, but without explanations I can’t counter anything. Why is it bad that this critique uses things from other acts? It’s all part of the same story. And regardless it’s something I very rarely do and it’s usually to praise the story. Why is it bad that I critique how jokes affect the plot? you can have a joke that is funny and doesn’t negatively affect the plot You state that act 1 is like a DnD session as if that counters something I said, but there is nothing wrong with having a suggestion based comic, it’s the execution that I have an issue with. You even make a criticism of your own, saying that the beginning, middle and end of homestuck is very different, but I never brought that up in my video. Perhaps you could elaborate.

[@QWE2623]

Adding this to my watch later. Knowing myself, I'll end up seeing the whole video in about a year or so. See you then, it's a promise

[@primordialaspect]

Alright :)

[@leifthesilly]

"Why is it called a beta if it's the final version" they Ask IT JUST WORKS -SN

[@mushykitten]

I loved the video. unlike many other reviews of homestuck I've seen that just praise the work endlessly for it's amazing story and characters, this is the first review I've seen that actually talks about it's problems. I loved homestuck but damn am I annoyed with some decisions that went into it, like the fetch modus nonsense, inconsistencies with countdowns as you've stated and with the part preceding cascade, and even stuff from the later parts like the entire existence of the beforus trolls or how badly I personally think the retcon was written in. that is to say, thank god I finally found someone pointing out some of homestuck's many flaws instead of just praising the good parts. with that, for some parts of the video, it didn't really feel like a review? I mean, you did actually go scene by scene and pointed out if there was something illogical or badly written within it, but that is kind of missing the point in my view. first of all, especially talking about homestuck, I don't think ordering it in this linear way of how the story tells you everything does it any justice. I think ordering it problem by problem instead of scene by scene would've done a better job in the perspective of how much content you are able to discuss, as it lets you skip over small inconsistencies and sum up a lot of small points into a big one with lots of examples, saving a lot of time. it felt in some parts that it was more of an analysis or a summary instead of a review. but yeah, the video was extremely well made and really reminded me both of what I love about homestuck and why I'm embarrassed to share it with my friends. thank you for the amazing well put together video.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you I can understand your perspective, but I personally like going into every little detail. It's a simple yet comprehensive format where everyone, even those who haven't read homestuck, can understand what's going on. That being said I'm sure that there were places where i could have summarized better. Such as the time between john leaving him room and him entering the kitchen. Its something that takes practice to get right. But even so, I doubt I wasted more than 5 minutes.

[@mushykitten]

@@primordialaspect you may have misunderstood me. I am not criticizing the length or depth of the video. what I meant in my reply is that the video felt a little more like a CinemaSins video where we go scene by scene and 'ding' every mistake or plot hole, instead of a structured critique of the work's themes, plot points, relevance or importance to the rest and mistakes as they relate to the act itself and not to a specific scene. as I've said - it felt like a summary more than a review. but yeah, I get that there was a compromise that needed to be made for the video to fit people who didn't necessarily read through all of homestuck. you can't talk about the work as a whole if you didn't expect everyone to have read it in the first place, so that's understandable. and again, I did like the video a lot, I'm juat saying that the purpose it served (and did so pretty well) may not be the one that I, admittedly subjectively, inferred originally from the title.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you for the compliment, I hope I don't seem rude or too defensive for correcting you still, it's great that you enjoyed it. the act is the sum of its parts, I don't think a problem can be self-contained. For example, John forgets how to place items down in only a single scene, but it damages his overall character. This isn't to mention that almost every scene has a least one issue, which shows a larger problem with Hussie's Writing. As for "a structured critique of the work's themes, plot points, relevance or importance to the rest and mistakes as they relate to the act itself and not to a specific scene." That is what the conclusion is for, to take the individual points and make a conclusion about them. That being said, I didn't talk about a theme, because I couldn't find any in act 1 that seemed intentional. But not having a theme isn't bad so it isn't a problem either. I guess I'm just confused about how you can see this as just a summary, I do summarize the whole story, but that isn't everything. I even decided to see how much is summery. Looking at the first 10 pages of my review I estimate about a fourth of it is summery, which is a lot, but I don't think it's unreasonable. and despite this, I condensed the plot quite well since my overall word count is only a bit larger than the word count of act 1 as a whole, meaning my summary is a fourth the size of the original. also, the definition of Critique is "a detailed analysis and assessment of something" so I think the title fits perfectly. that you for commenting

[@jkljosh7392]

Amazing high quality content hope this channel Grows, we are running low on analytical homestuck youtubers ATM it would seem

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks =)

[@jkljosh7392]

@@primordialaspect btw what are you thoughts of Funk Mclovin's AU/retelling of homestuck sofar?

[@primordialaspect]

I haven't watched it. I've not been super impressed with his videos in the past, and I'm not a fan of fan fiction anyway.

[@jkljosh7392]

@@primordialaspect I'm only on episoad 7, but based on your criticisms of act 1 I think you'd like it. it's distinct from homestuck in a nice amount of ways that both fix its short comming and make seeing how the story has been altered and restructured a delight. I'd honestly say it is a better experience than reading base homestuck, tldr I must reccomend you give it a shot.

[@yumever4275]

so glad i found this video 10/10 made me remember a lot of details i forgot about the first act :')

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks, I'm glad you liked it

[@honey3762]

If you reveiwed more acts I'd watch it. I really love hearing reviews of HS

[@higztv1166]

You're my absolute hero

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you

[@leetagent]

yeah, i agree, a lot of confusion comes from how the first act was being played as a semi-fake forum game. it makes so much nonsensical when you're someone like me reading in our contemporary time.

[@sebastiansanchezchuquimia7734]

Hey, fair, you did a really good review of act 1, leaving a really high bar for a funny comic, with many funny lil easter eggs, so you have to be proud of it at least

[@CheesyRacc]

Aw man! Absolutely love this video, ive been looking for videos exactly like this about homestuck. Its really a shame if youre not continuing the series, i love long form analyses of things, and ESPECIALLY things that im hyperfixated on.

[@primordialaspect]

That's the exact reason why I made the video in the 1st place. For years I looked for a Homestuck critique on KZbin, But every video I found disappointed me in one way or another. Finally I decided to just do it myself.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you, I also wish I could do the whole thing. But my passion isn't there, nor is there enough days in my life.

[@AlphaPizzadog]

thinking about all this, this must be a long 4 minutes and 13 seconds. like how has john had 2 conversations online with two different people? not even on the pda, but on a computer, AWAY FROM THE ACTION

[@SharpieWaterOfficial]

9:00 I actually have a counterargument in "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". Striving to be perfect in the things that I have done has always just gotten in the way of them getting done. As for the name thing asides from its endearing aspect, they are actually consistent with the name joke through the whole comic (with multiple variations of it) so it is entirely internally consistent just as it is amusing. Homestuck is in my opinion meant to be inherently whimsical and mystical, and i think that those whimiscal and mystical elements actually add not just to the jokes of the story, but also the logic and narrative of it. Without the jokes of homestuck there is no narrative of homestuck and without the jokes or narrative of homestuck homestuck isnt homestuck and homestuck would suck.

[@chimefloon-w-4146]

i LITERALLY cannot wait for the continuation of this

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you =)

[@locrianfacade]

"TT: Let's forget the car. But now that you have the wallet, you can grab much bigger things." Page 4956.

[@caligulasAquarius]

BASED GIF (gh-if) PRONOUNCER!!!

[@TheWrathAbove]

Out of Curiousity, how do you feel about Problem Sleuth? I think Act 1 was still trying to emulate Problem Sleuth's style which worked a lot better for Problem Sleuth since it takes place in a video game and has generally lower stakes. Additionally, do think Problem Sleuth (along with Jailbreak and BardQuest) are good starting points or would you advise people to read Homestuck first?

[@primordialaspect]

Personally speaking I don't really like any of Andrew Hussie's previous work. The lack of logic just doesn't appeal to me so I wouldn't suggest anybody to read it. But I can also understand why some people enjoy it. If you like Homestuck Act 1 you'll like the other stories as well. if you don't like Homestuck Act 1 you won't like the rest either. But beyond that I don't see why the reading order would matter. Act 3 and beyond is a completely different kind of story.

[@TheWrathAbove]

@@primordialaspect That's fair enough. I personally prefer Problem Sleuth to Homestuck, (tho am a big fan of both) but I can totally understand why it's not everybody's cup of tea. Also, I'll note that even after Act 2, Homestuck still makes a ton of references to Jailbreak, Bard Quest, and Problem Sleuth so there is valid reason to read them first even if it's not required.

[@primordialaspect]

True especially the act 3 intermission that thing is a huge reference to Problem Sleuth. Then at some point in Acts 6, I don't remember where, there's a jailbreak homage, the part there Jack breaks out of jail. Without the context they'll just seemed a little bit out of place, but there understandable enough. I read Homestuck first and I was never confused about it.

[@fishy658]

Wow!

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks =)

[@megagamer8705]

in the author commentary hussie says the clockwork thing was unintentional and he had not come up with the idea of classpects until later on

[@primordialaspect]

There a several instances where I praise the story for accidental foreshadowing. Without the commentary it's impossible to know if it was intentional or not, and since I follow death of the author, I will assume it's intentional for the sake of critique

[@mhmm4840]

@PrimordialAspect Even following death of the author, the fact that a lot of foreshadowing is retroactive isn't an opinion that is open to interpretation. Death of the Author only applies to pieces of a work that are not facts.

[@primordialaspect]

when I say "I follow death of the author" I mean that the only thing that matters when determining facts about a story is what is in the story. Everything else should be discarded. Then when reaching a point with two equally possible explanations, I choose the one that makes the story better. I choose to believe the foreshadowing was intentional because it made the story better and its impossible to prove it wasn't without outside material.

[@GaleGrim]

I feel compelled to remind that SBURB is in beta. So it likely has some quirks to iron out. But that is also never stated or alluded to in homestuck so... uh... Occam's razor? Occam's razor!

[@primordialaspect]

The issue with that is that it is that SBURB was created from the hieroglyphics on the walls of the frog temple. There is no other possible version. And it's not like the bad features are because of bad implementations on Skianets part because the Troll version has the same issues. They also had 13 years to iron out all those bugs, if they are bugs. But they didn't. This all can only mean these issues were implemented by paradox space itself for the sake of "funny" jokes, even if its contradictory.

[@GaleGrim]

@@primordialaspect Well, it WAS created from hieroglyphics by the trolls as well, they have their own frog temple, turned into modern code. Plenty of chances for something to go awry there from my experience translating things. Also, 13 years? Are we told that in comic? I can't remember it's been a while. I know john was excited for the game as a "long awaited" kind of thing, I always pictured it as like 3-6 years? which for a game like Sburb still in beta is not a long time. Then their the lord english in the room with the alpha time line and what ever that does to the game if anything. IDK. It IS pretty inconsistent tho your right.

[@primordialaspect]

grandpa Harley found the temple 2 days after he found jade www.homestuck.com/story/1874 so yes he had 13 years

[@adam-px2ye]

While I agree it's jarring for new readers, Homestuck act 1 does pretty much what every other act does. Other acts might do it better, this is due to Hussie being an arguably better writer over time. Homestuck is meta and many aspects of it are shown. Naming a character on their 13th birthday is less a custom of the world, but because it's happening in the comic. The sylladex is a property of the world. It's a world where the characters in the comic are semi aware to the fact that things are comical. "You have no idea what that means, though" for the sylladex isn't strange to me whos read the whole story, because you don't know what it means. It's hard to explain. You're just as in the dark as the characters. Homestuck is as the name implies: home-stuck. John is stuck in his house, then they're stuck in the game (which often times uses the house symbol), and ultimately they are stuck in the comic (which also uses a house symbol). That's why they just leave canon at the end of the comic. They get unstuck from the comic, from the "home".

[@primordialaspect]

Well, I think that a story should make sense from an in universe perspective, and a meta perspective. Its 100% possible to do both, and it would only require some tweaking

[@adam-px2ye]

@@primordialaspect That is true but I personally find it difficult to change things in a way that would fit what I've said above. Good video still, act 1 is pretty annoying to read even on rereads sometimes. Sucks that it's like a filter to a pretty awesome story otherwise.

[@Sendinho]

i would like more homestuck this vid kinda seems to much serious to this part of the story but i liked u showing where's the logical flaws i just to because of that i want to see more like this

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you

[@varsity1618]

When I was younger, I absolutely loved everything (I was actively involved in the updates and the prime years of homestuck 2012-2014) Now, 10ish years later, reactivating all my old memories, my GOD there's a lot of flaws lol

[@miguelanjo2776]

nice video, are you planning on an act 2 critique?

[@primordialaspect]

I have a whole section at the end of the video explaining this, you can click on the timestamp labeled the future of this channel for it. But if you want a quick answer. No, I will not be making an act 2 critique nor any other homestuck critiques.

[@ericquiabazza2608]

Pretty cool Bhru! I would only say that some of this criticism is VERY neetpicky, and even just explain after. Yes, there is dumb moments and error, but not as much as expose. -Bathroom items work diferently because Plumbing, theh are conected to it, so it takes it with the wall/floor, and rose is using a laptop mouse, try to be pixel perfect with that. Aditionally no one know what tool does what, so in place of trying what you would THINK may be the reverse mechanic is better to count into what works, as it may as well do somethig completely diferent. -COPYINg and CREATING isnt the same as Moving, you know that, dont play dumb. -Rose having an overly complicated Specibus is theme with her pretentious personality. Rose things of herself as "the smartest shit" so as such she need to use an overly complicated system, remember this are 14 years old kids. Also, she was always frustrated with it becuase of how it works and not having enough foresight to things about it. Specially whenn needed the "root" and thus cuting the whole tree. While leafs would only take items added most recently. Even if you are samrt you emotional development wont see much diference, and in some cases may be stagnant. Same with Jhone acting dumb here and there, is part of the narrative taking Jhone's action as the reader action and making fun of it. -Items launch will go from their position In the sreen to the right at a standard velocity, repercusion happen because of weight and form of items. The towel end up flutering down, because it isnt aerodinamic and it forms changes, but the book and pda are basicly rocks, i fyou where to trow a rock and a hankerchief with the same force you would get 2 diferent results.

[@primordialaspect]

thank you for commenting, you are the first to criticize my work to such a extent, so I'm really happy. If I make mistakes it only means I can improve. So I'm going to go through point by point, to see if I have any counters. "Bathroom items work differently because Plumbing, they are connected to it, so it takes it with the wall/floor" This is indeed a possible explanation and this problem and on it's own isn't super important, if it was on it's own then I would be willing to let it slide as just an oddity, but the issue is that it is connected to the cluster fuck which is bathroom as a whole. The fact that you can't place things back into a hole is directly responsible for the bathtub blocking John's door at the end. considering it directly leads to the climax of the act, I view it as important to explain. But if would be fixed if you explanation was said at some point, even as a one off line. "rose is using a laptop mouse, try to be pixel perfect with that." The issue is that she is shown to be pixel perfect in other cases, such as putting the bunny in the box www.homestuck.com/story/147, and helping John with the sledge hammer www.homestuck.com/story/176. if it was consistent I wouldn't call it a problem. "Additionally no one know what tool does what, so in place of trying what you would THINK may be the reverse mechanic is better to count into what works, as it may as well do something completely different." I'm honestly not sure what you are referring to here. are you talking about when she used the select tool on the bathtub when she should have used the revise tool, because she had already tested those things previously, so she knows what it does. "COPYING and CREATING isn't the same as Moving, you know that, don't play dumb." I believe you are talking about my observation that copying the chimney didn't require a hole in the roof to already be there. While I agree that it isn't the same as moving that doesn't mean they shouldn't follow a similar mechanic. I would call this bad game design. Perhaps I should have explained myself better, but I believe that Sburb should be a well designed game, because it is for the most part, with a few odd expectations. This inconsistency on when hole are created is one of those exceptions, and like I said earlier, it results with the climax of the act, so it is important. "Rose having an overly complicated Specibus is theme with her pretentious personality. Rose things of herself as "the smartest shit" so as such she need to use an overly complicated system, remember this are 14 years old kids. Also, she was always frustrated with it because of how it works and not having enough foresight to things about it. Specially when needed the "root" and thus cuting the whole tree. While leafs would only take items added most recently. Even if you are samrt you emotional development wont see much diference, and in some cases may be stagnant." Like I said in the video, this needs to be explained. The tree modus is so bad that no sane person would use it. Exploring this aspect of her character could be interesting, it could be part of an arc. But it is never acknowledged as a problem, and she switches to leaf mode the instant she find out about it, saying "You're not sure why you didn't do this a lot sooner." www.homestuck.com/story/865. In hindsight I should have put the above line in my critique. "Same with John acting dumb here and there, is part of the narrative taking John's action as the reader action and making fun of it." I totally agree, and I call that bad writing. Being able to remove the will of a character in such a way is bad. When reading homestuck I prefer to view all actions taken by the characters as their own choice, even if it was influenced by the readers. because it makes the story better. I decided to choose the version that has the least problems, should every single action john makes be a problem because he has no free will, or should the single problem be the existence of the reader inputs. "Items launch will go from their position In the screen to the right at a standard velocity" Yes I know, I brought up that the right side of the screen is not always the same direction, which means John should have some control of it, which he obviously doesn't. "repercussion happen because of weight and form of items." unless you want to argue that the fake arms are the same weight as the pda www.homestuck.com/story/17, and the the smoke pellets and the book are the same www.homestuck.com/story/93, www.homestuck.com/story/95, and www.homestuck.com/story/96, then you are incorrect. "The towel end up fluttering down, because it isn't aerodynamic and it forms changes" not sure what you mean about form changing, but a towel is too heavy to float down like a leaf, if you don't believe me, try it yourself, I'm sure you have a towel lying around. "the book and pda are basically rocks, if flyout where to throw a rock and a handkerchief with the same force you would get 2 different results." I agree, but I specifically compared the PDA to the fake arms in my critique. Now while I disagree with all you criticisms. I still thank you for making them, this comment was fun to make. If you think I missed something else, please let me know

[@ericquiabazza2608]

@@primordialaspect and i thank you tol for taking the time to read and counter. --Would agree in that having the bathtube for the end is set up, you can also say that for every time that happens is part of the timeline. Like Jhone getting the Game late, after everyone else so he dosnt have time to just fuck around, or evade vents like Rose having her electrical problems, dave his with the crow, etc. That is in part what i like and slighly dislike of homestuck as a whole, EVERITHING is part of the time line, which also means there is no deviation, any deviation is a doom timeline, and only some of those afect the main thus been paid atention. So, very exact and kinda "plot calls" moments can be justifie slightly -While Rose is click perfect with the Bunny in the bed trying to click on a smeared cake is a little more dificult, ther is also missclick and the thing i hate most Swet drops make the mouse go haywire. I can account for the hammer tho. So is more a sense of posible skill. The "woops" is chat is pretty indicative of it beingmore a joke. -Sburb Requires players to make a tower up, so having no restrictions for copying and creating is something SBURB would have. -I always saw both the way fo writing and as a BIG character exoosition. Rose using the most snobish, pasive agresive, compose talk says a LOT more than some flashes she is in. And they are preteen, i was as much and dumber than them by that age. Allofthem specially may be showing severe stagnation in grow because of each'one i upbringing. Dave gling trought Bro training, Jhoneand rose being taking care and forming a fight relationship with their guardians and they seme to not have more friends or interaction with others, and Jane nkt having any parental Figure for years. *Addition i forget, i belive Older Roxy image in the window is not really her, but Rose being paranoic and not risking if she is there. Also works as foreshadowing for Roxy and give more exposition in rose and her relation with roxy. -I always saw it more like "players have their own personalities but reader (caparacian) suggestion may influence them, after all one dosnt question the voice in your head. Excelt when its get hardcore, so ghey refuse. Homestuck is after all part of a meta joke about games, so not taking things to seriously is a requirement. -I just lost about the Siladex, its more comedic and circunstancial than anything really. Have a good day/night

[@primordialaspect]

I guess I'll counter your counter to my counter "Would agree in that having the bathtub for the end is set up, you can also say that for every time that happens is part of the timeline.... So, very exact and kinda "plot calls" moments can be justifie slightly" I mentioned this briefly as well, something being part of the alpha timeline isn't a excuse for bad writing. Hussie could have written it in a less contrived way. Although I guess you agree with me since you said "That is in part what I like and slightly dislike of homestuck as a whole" "While Rose is click perfect with the Bunny in the bed trying to click on a smeared cake is a little more difficult" I don't see why the cake would be harder than the bunny, since the bunny is smaller. "there is also miss click and the thing I hate most Swet drops make the mouse go haywire. I can account for the hammer though. So is more a sense of posible skill." I have no idea what you are talking about in this. "The "woops" is chat is pretty indicative of it being more a joke." Things being a joke doesn't mean it is no longer bad writing, you can make a consistent comedy. "Sburb Requires players to make a tower up, so having no restrictions for copying and creating is something SBURB would have." I totally agree, and it also should have no restrictions on placing things in the ground and removing them. "I always saw both the way for writing and as a BIG character exposition. Rose using the most snobbish, passive aggressive, compose talk says a LOT more than some flashes she is in. And they are preteen, i was as much and dumber than them by that age. All of them specially may be showing severe stagnation in grow because of each one i upbringing. Dave going trough Bro training, John and rose being taking care and forming a fight relationship with their guardians and they seem to not have more friends or interaction with others, and Jade not having any parental Figure for years." I don't see the connection between Snobbish and passive aggressive, and intentionally sabotaging you life with a horrible modus. If this is meant to be seen as a character flaw, that should be said somewhere. "*Addition i forget, i belive Older Roxy image in the window is not really her, but Rose being paranoic and not risking if she is there. Also works as foreshadowing for Roxy and give more exposition in rose and her relation with roxy." Once again, I have no idea what you mean here "I always saw it more like "players have their own personalities but reader (caparacian) suggestion may influence them, after all one doesn't question the voice in your head." That is how I describe it in the video, But it's still a problem because it means that many actions the character makes could be a choice they wouldn't have made without the reader, which ruins the stakes "Except when its get hardcore, so they refuse. Homestuck is after all part of a meta joke about games, so not taking things to seriously is a requirement." I disagree, I believe hussie wants you to take the story very seriously later on. So much time is spent on character development and high stakes situations. The same standard should be held to the beginning of the story as well, since it follows that same laws of physics. "I just lost about the Siladex, its more comedic and circumstantial than anything really." Again I'm not 100% sure what you mean here, if you are saying that it's okay that it doesn't make sense because it's funny then I'll repeat myself. Just because it's a joke, doesn't mean that it's free from criticism. Homestuck is a story with a foundation of logic, so the jokes should be logical as well. Thanks again for commenting, it's always fun to debate homestuck with people

[@aradia9726]

a homestuck analysis? in my 2022? its more likely than youd think

[@primordialaspect]

Indeed, it's s shame the the fan base is dying off

[@lextatertotsfromhell7673]

Part 2 when???

[@AlphaPizzadog]

looking back, who WAS the cursor? it wasn't the... Loquacious Entity, nor the... Deranged Stranger who speaks in an annoying manner. It's unlikely that it's the zodiac-suited people either... also im pretty sure the... Deranged Stranger may actually be the true Narrator. Well, him or the Amber Human.

[@primordialaspect]

I'm not sure who the darranged stranger was. If you are talking about the exiles, they don't have control until the person enters the game. And regardless, none of the stations come with mice except calaborn's, and he doesn't seem like the helpful type

[@calamitouscalliope]

i feel like during act 1 a lot of the "rules" were not made yet and it was just being set up as a story but i agree with most of your criticisms

[@sebastianhama5624]

Are you doing the whole thing?

[@mattemig5868]

2 years later and this is all they did :(

[@kamman626]

where is part 2 :(

[@TheDrywall]

At the end you said you weren't going to make more Homestuck videos, but do you plan to make videos on any other subject?

[@primordialaspect]

I have a lot of plans, the question is do I have the drive to spend months on those plans Right now my passion is on a novel I'm writing, perhaps it will shift back to videos some day. I think it will, I just don't know when. There is a video idea that's been bouncing around in my head for more than a year, but it's even bigger than the act 1 video, so I'm always hesitant to start on it. I guess you'll just have to subscribe and wait and see ;)

[@TheDrywall]

@@primordialaspect I have subscribed. This was a really excellent video and I'm excited to see whatever you make next!

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you

[@volnartheunforgiving3952]

I feel like a lot of the earlier problems had to do with some weird ideas Hussie had, being that John had basically no experience with the world and his identity until the story began simply because he is the main character, and that the reader must often be made to feel stupid or not have things immediately explained to them, often because Hussie finds that funny

[@primordialaspect]

I totally agree. And I view that as a flaw considering how logical the story becomes.

[@volnartheunforgiving3952]

@@primordialaspect By the way, what's the song that starts at 1:08:18

[@primordialaspect]

I have a link to a list of all tracks with time stamps in the description

[@volnartheunforgiving3952]

@@primordialaspect Ah, okay.

[@gameygeemer4142]

Re: Sburb coming in two packages. I don't think it's fair to say that Rose and John would leave Dave or Jade to die if it was packaged in one, but it is reasonable to assume that Rose and John would have entered the Medium together before they even knew there was danger they would be leaving them in, going entirely off of the logic in the first act. The fact that the story retroactively makes the fact of John losing the disk in order to set up the fulfillment of a lot of stable time loops makes it a lot harder to disentangle the dumb shenanigans behind the packaging and the broader narrative as a whole. As to why John might try sticking two cakes together? To reduce the amount of space cake is taking up in his Sylladex

[@primordialaspect]

I agree that they would enter the medium together if they didn't know there was danger, but they still didn't mention Dave or jade after they knew. Saying that "it had to happen because of time loops" is a good excuse, it didn't have to happen this way, especially since all those time loops were made up by hussie afterwards. As for the cakes, adding a second cake to his sylladex and merging it with the first wouldnt reduce the number of items, he'd just have a merged cake instead of one, and John didn't plan on merging everything together. It still doesn't make sense.

[@whywyatt376]

ADMITTEDLY, I've just read Homestuck last month for the first time. So, having this here is great. Also, glad to see a critique of Homestuck's story as a cohesive whole rather than judging by how good the author juggles foreshadowing (really well btw!). ACT 6 IS NOT ACT 1 BUT... I'm really surprised that inventories and alchemy systems try to be well defined in earlier acts, juxtaposed by "Classpects." With how Classpects become a secondary character focus in Act 6, I feel like how its not completely explained other than the brief bit of Calliope is a complete failure of the web comic. If people were only reading it without all those classpecting posts most of how it connects would fly over peoples. And everytime I see them explained, it just seems like pattern recognition kicking into overdrive; the line between analysis and over analysis is murky here. Like, this is a low blow but if GO Kanaya is a Sylph of Space how come she has a failing relationship that she was afraid would become ""pale?"" Of course, many love it. I'll probably learn to love as well, it's only been one month so I'd have to reread it. Also, what are your opinions on.. 1. The Feferi reviving debacle? 2. Is the ill-defined nature of Classpecting somewhat of a deal-breaker for you? 3. The Act 6 intermissions excluding Caliborn's? Personally, there is such a lack of communication between pre-established characters that I can't really suspend my disbelief nor grok them at all.

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks for the compliment. I'm not sure how being a Sylph of Space would prevent Vriska from putting Kanya in the friend zone, or the auspistice zone.We don't really know anything about Sylphs 1. I'm not sure what you are talking about here. Feferi's dream self was cut it half by nior, and her waking self was killed by Eridan. if you are talking about Fefetasprite, I'm not a fan of how it happened, mostly because I don't know why Gamzee would do that, and I hate Gamzee in general. 2. the Classpect system is interesting to me, back with I considered critiquing the entirety of homestuck I put a lot of thought into what what I would say. While the system as a whole is not rigorously defined, where it is used I think does a good job. this is especially apparent for Terezi and Vriska, who's classpects are very important to their characters. But for the most part, the characters only use a part of their title, which is usually the aspect. I'm not sure how John is an "heir" nor why Dave is a "Knight." I think the story would have benefited with all the characters using both the class and aspect parts of their title. I really think Hussie was in over his head with the number of combinations. 3. I'm really not a fan of Act 6 in general, I don't like Jake, and Jane, Dirk has his moments I enjoy and Roxy is fine. But as a result I was always happy to get away from them and go back to the characters I actually liked. The intermissions where the best part of act 6 as far as I'm concerned. This is excluding Openbound, which is terrible, it's too long and is full of completely irrelevant characters and hundreds of chests that you should just skip. As for "a lack of communication" I'm not sure what you mean. There is the relationship drama between Jake, Dirk, and Jane, but that isn't in the intermission.

[@IsabelCarlota]

I'm going to reread Homestuck thanks to you, I hope you feel bad about that (jk jk jk, thanks for the great video, it was really great!).

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you =)

[@ajbXYZcool]

Certainly an interesting approach to talking about Homestuck! While I understand wanting to approach it as a complete story, separating your analysis as such from the context is foolhardy. Sure, you do address it, though when you talk about the second person narration, you then switch to talking about it in the third person. This and also dismissing the character introduction page as "unnecessary" due to how those traits are expressed later in the story. Because of the context, we know that while Hussie had an overall idea on the nature of the universe and rough outline (so he could seed various tips purposefully), the details were often on the fly, whether it be directly from the reader responses directly in the case of the early comic, or general reader feedback later on. Now I say that, and one may ask why some things stick around even when the reader suggestion box is closed - and that's due to how a lot of Homestuck is built on patterns, making its own "language". Formally introducing a character? They get a page of their room with a summary of their character. First conflict with a Guardian? Strife page. Some of these patterns wear out and fall away later on, sure, but it's hard to ignore completely. There's also the context of the previous Ms Paint Adventures, which bring forward their own patterns that are repeated in Homestuck, like the arms gag. Early inconsistencies can be explained through just the act of the finer rules being figured out, and perhaps a way for Hussie to keep throwing surprises at the "reader". Overall, this context makes Homestuck more of a "game" than a pure story (yes games have stories too). Now I've considered what one could do with Homestuck now that it's a completed product - what silly gags (like the false names) could be dropped? What improved foreshadowing could you introduce? The main problem is that some of these things end up contributing greatly to the overall narrative in ways that are hard to separate. Like putting the arms on the harlequin doll, and everything that comes from that. It is really only a silly "random reader comment" gag that really makes no sense for John to randomly do. But how can you separate that without making larger changes? And if you don't remove that one, what justification is there to remove the others? Overall, really knowing Homestuck as a story, and getting the most out of it, includes knowing and understanding how the context will make things flow differently compared to a more standard narrative. Things are brought up early on that have no payoff just because they ended up not getting followed up on and integrated into core structure, like how other things end up doing so.

[@primordialaspect]

Interesting comment, It's always nice to get feedback on my work. Allow me raise some counter points. I never once said it was bad to write in the second person. I said that writing in the second person can lead to confusion if done poorly, and I did give an example. the reason I narrated in the third person is because I would at times refer to the viewer as "you" which could confuse people on which "you" I was talking about. Overall though, second person is practically irrelevant for the story, it's used for a few jokes, but that is about it. you say that reason it's okay that "the character introduction page as "unnecessary" due to how those traits are expressed later in the story." is because Hussie didn't have a concrete plan. I understand that that is the reason why, but you can't use that as a excuse. He should have had a better plan, it would have been a lot more time consuming, but that's what it takes to write a good story. You then talk about "Patterns" in homestuck. I enjoy many of the patterns that exist in homestuck, but that doesn't excuse when they are done poorly. for example, the introduction page could contain necessary information and that pattern would work. As for context relating to the previous Ms Pain Adventures, you should not be required to read a completely different work to understand Homestuck. Truthfully I don't even know why you are bringing it up. the only thing Homestuck act 1 has in common with Hussie's previous works is the narrative style and a few gags, and you don't need outside context to understand it. "Early inconsistencies can be explained through just the act of the finer rules being figured out," yes I agree that is the reason they exist. but that doesn't change the fact that it's bad that they exist. "Overall, this context makes Homestuck more of a "game" than a pure story (yes games have stories too)" I'm not sure what you mean by this, Homestuck isn't a game, it has some games in it, but that isn't the primary medium. If you say that it is narrated like a text based adventure game, I agree and I don't have a problem with that on it's own, it's how the idea is implemented, such as the lack of free will. Also of course games can have stories, in this video I show gameplay from Celeste and A Hat in Time, both of which have great stories. next you basically ask how I would improve homestuck. I think I made it clear what gags I would drop and what foreshadowing I would add. You mention putting arms on the doll, but I never said it was bad, I just commented that the frosting was really strong. I don't even consider him doing that out of character. I think it's important to note that my job as a critique isn't to rewrite the story, it's the point out the problems. If I was in charge I wouldn't fix all the problems I've pointed out, it's literally impossible. Act 1 is broken on a fundamental level, you cannot fix it without significant changes. I could go into extreme detail how I think the story should have gone, but I'm not here to write fan fiction. Overall, it seems that we agree on most things, but for some reason you view those things as good, while I don't. Also you seem to imply I don't know Homestuck, I won't say I know it like the back of my hand, but I guarantee I'm in the 1% in terms of knowledge. I've read it 8 times after all. If you want to prove my lack of understanding, come back with better arguments.

[@ajbXYZcool]

@@primordialaspect Thanks for the reply! I will be honest, I probably felt a little rushed making that original comment. I'm afraid of losing any thoughts I want to share if I don't, and I was in the middle of work, so, yeah, you bring up good points, especially as I actually have finished the video by now. Looking back at my own experience, I do agree that Act 1 is certainly not the best introduction to Homestuck. Characters do act idiotically, and while some of the plot holes you bring up I don't have as much of a problem with (like the ejection speed/trajectory from the sylladex), it could use some refinement. I wasn't really asking how you'd rewrite it, I was stating my own thought experiments and the initial conclusions I've had from them, and I never meant to bring your knowledge of Homestuck as a whole to question. Again, I'm sorry if I upset you with any of my comments as looking back, they were more knee-jerk than I realized based on the beginning portions of your video. I looked back on my own experience while in the thick of the Fandom and do remember how we had to coach people through the early Acts, particularly Act 1. While it's been since yesterday that I've listened to it (so no clear examples), I do think there is room for polish in the script that could help address some of the weirdness I felt from it. Whether you change your mind and return to this series or not, I hope the best from you moving forward!

[@primordialaspect]

Thanks and don't worry I'm not mad, I found it more funny. If you could remember anything about my script you think I could improve, let me know, I've noticed a handful of problems as well since I posted it, thankfully nothing major. But otherwise have a good day

[@Cri_Jackal]

Homestuck is a story where the fact that it's a work of fiction is an in-universe fact, acknowledged by several characters, which includes the _main villain._ This explains all the inconsistencies in narration perspective and the 4th wall breaks, it not making sense is the point, the fragile believability of their world is itself a plot point. Plot contrivances themselves are a major part of the narrative, the whole comic lampshades the entire concept of arbitrary plot events, and one of the 12 aspects is directly tied to the concept itself, that being Rage. Homestuck, and it's predecessor Problem Sleuth, had the set goal of highlighting the gap between the media itself, and the universe it depicts, and in Homestuck's case that generates some massive existential horror qualities. This is the element that Toby Fox would directly lift from Homestuck when creating Undertale/Deltarune where in those games the fact that it's a video game is a plot point, acknowledged by certain characters, and the nature of whether or not the "player character" is their own entity or an extension of the player is called into question in both the Pacifist and Genocide endings of Undertale, as well as being one of the CENTRAL plot elements of Deltarune, where the player character, Kris, seemingly acts out of their own free will, independently of the player, during some _particular_ scenes.

[@Cri_Jackal]

@UCBTSFafQxddTp-I3PwW--gg The 4th wall breaks ARE meant to contradict things, it's taking how other pieces of medis accidentally do that sort of thing, and doing it intentionally, creating inconsistencies that could only occur within a work of fiction in order to highlight that it's fictional. And the whole gag with the sylladex stuff is "what if the weird inconvenient inventory systems in video games were a real life thing people had to deal with?".

[@primordialaspect]

Sorry I accidentally used the wrong account to reply to your last comment, and then I deleted the comment it before coping it for this account. and I think deleting that comment also deleted yours, at least on the public side, I can still see it in KZbin Studio so I'll reply to it here. Sorry I don't see why a fourth wall break is always a contradiction. sure they don't happen in real life, but there isn't magic in real life either. Just like most things, it can be done well, or poorly. as for the sylladex, I completely agree and like I said as long as it's sufficiently explained and the characters use it in a way that makes sense for them to do so, then that's fine. As far as I'm concerned, in a story with a logical foundation, there is no excuse for there to be inconsistencies. I'm curious why you think inconsistencies improve the story.

[@Cri_Jackal]

@@primordialaspect Homestuck, as a story that purposefully plays with the fact that it's fictional, benefits from inconsistencies because logical inconsistencies are something that can only happen in a fictional story, it marks its world a work of fiction, with no room for any in-universe shenanigans to explain them away as making sense in context, masking them. Gamzee would go on to purposefully utilize this through his rage aspect. Rage represents both literal anger, AND the concept of a play, a story, fiction, with plot contrivances being something that invokes anger in an audience. This is how he cheats himself into being immortal later on, because he knows the script, he knows that he has to exist later on in order for the events of the story to play out, weaponizing the very concept of plot armor using his Rage aspect. This directly contradicts all the rules of mortality and immortality within Homestuck, it makes absolutely no goddamn sense in-universe, enraging any reader who wants a story with logic and consistency, it operates solely on the fact that Homestuck is a work of fiction, logical consistency be damned.

[@primordialaspect]

I'm going to take a step back because I feel we are going in circles. You are trying to convince me that Homestuck is intentionally written with inconsistencies as part of a meta acknowledgment that it is a work of fiction. Now I already agree that Homestuck acknowledges itself as a work of fiction, what I disagree with is that inconsistencies are part of it. So I’m going to be focusing on just that. To do this properly, I’ll be going over everything again, because I want to be thorough. Now while many characters allude to the fact that they exist in a story. This doesn’t mean inconsistencies must exist in the story. But if you bring up enough examples then I would be forced to agree with you, so let’s look at what you have written. You talk about the narration, the Sylladex and 4th wall breaks. I never called the 4th wall inconsistent in my video, and like I said in an earlier comment there is nothing inconsistent about it. And I’d be fine with the narration and Sylladex if there were a few tweaks, there is nothing intrinsically inconsistent about either of them. You say that plot contrivances themselves are a major part of the narrative, but Homestuck isn't as inconsistent as you make it seem. Act 3 and act 5 act 2, are almost completely without inconsistencies, act 4, act 5 act 1, and all the act 6 intermissions are pretty well written as well. There are only a handful of Acts that are completely trash consistency-wise. Act 1, Act 2, The Act 3 Intermission, and Act 6 Act 6, to name a few. The majority of Homestuck is logical. You say “the whole comic lampshades the entire concept of arbitrary plot events.” Criterion needed “One of the 12 aspects is directly tied to the concept itself, that being Rage.” I’ll talk about this later. FYI any comparisons to Problem Sleuth, Undertale, or Deltarune are completely irrelevant. A story must be able to function on its own. However in the Problem Sleuth paragraph you make a point that can stand on it’s own. “Homestuck had the set goal of highlighting the gap between the media itself, and the universe it depicts, and in Homestuck's case that generates some massive existential horror qualities.” But it doesn't have anything to do with the consistency argument so I’ll ignore it. Now in your latest comment, let’s split things up the first part into pieces. Homestuck is “a story that purposefully plays with the fact that it's fictional.” I agree. “Homestuck… benefits from inconsistencies.” You have yet to prove that “Logical inconsistencies are something that can only happen in a fictional story.” I agree. An inconsistency “marks its world a work of fiction.” False, the movie 12 Angry Men(1957) is a work of fiction and it contains no inconsistencies. “with no room for any in-universe shenanigans to explain them away as making sense in context, masking them. “ I’m not sure what you mean by this line. Homestuck explains things and gives context all the time. On to the final point, the one about gamzee. People look at all the inconsistencies surrounding Gamzee and conclude that it must be due to him having the Rage aspect. But corrilation does not equal causation. The fact is, almost nothing is said about Rage in the comic, in fact most of the time the word rage is used, it is talking about Karkat. There is nothing in the comic that states that Gamzee's classpect has anything to do with his inconsistencies. And the zodiac quiz even contradicts it. According to the zodiac quiz, rage is all about truth. Someone with the rage aspect will tear down anything they believe is false. “The Rage-bound tend to be the most volatile and unpredictable of the aspects. At their best they are original, revolutionary, and fearless. At their worst they are cruel, uncompromising, and vicious.” Nothing about this hints at 4th wall breaking powers. I’m sorry, but you're quoting a fan theory, probably from Optimistic Duelist, or the guy he took the idea from Tex Talks. But as far as I’m aware, Tex Talks just made it up, not something new from him, he does that a lot. You are either going to need to bring up more evidence, or clarify the points you are already have. But regardless, this is lot of fun. I hope you are having as much fun as I am

[@Cri_Jackal]

@@primordialaspect I referenced those other stories because they directly utilize the element of Homestuck I feel you're failing to grasp, giving you other examples of it in order to get a clearer picture. Also, the fact that you've unintentionally separated the acts that play the most with Homestuck being fictional, poking at the concept of arbitrary game mechanics and plot contrivances, from the acts that have the least of that sort of thing, pretty much proves your missing the point there. Purposefully breaking internal consistency to make it clear that what the characters are ACTUALLY stuck in is the story itself, in Act 1 and 2 you could argue it was mostly unintentional, simply a biproduct of the whole "satire of adventure games" element, but the Act 3 Intermission and especially Act 6 Act 6 are ABSOLUTELY trying to drive that point intentionally. Caliborn's whole arc with taking control of the story with homosuck, along with breaking a cartridge that apparently "contains Homestuck", in the same way the discs during the Doc Scratch arc did, and John gaining literal freedom from all internal narrative logic with his retcon powers are the most absolute examples of this. And to elaborate a little more on the "marks its world as a work of fiction" comment, it moreso marks its world as a work of fiction _in a way characters in the story could detect._ The three characters who do being Caliborn, Doc Scratch, and Gamzee. And possibly Alt!Calliope too, some of her dialogue seems to imply it to a degree.

[@sylv_exter5272]

I bet you won't read this comment hehe okay serious glasses on. This video kinda made me wanna reread homestuck and re-experience the joy(?) I had when I started reading it

[@primordialaspect]

I have read it. I hope you can reexperence that joy

[@KaizarNike]

42:47 While yea Automata could be robots, in more popular usage it usually means a form of self driven AI. Like cellular automata for AI replicating the actions of cells; often given a series of rules and inputs that take small actions that play out in a larger scene.

[@KaizarNike]

Wonderful critique. I'm sorry that you went into so much depth for this, but applaud you for it. We all find our ways of coping with the pure creative energies on display of all the people who influenced Homestuck, and I'm glad it continues its legacy in fan creations and videos to this day. I decided I had to get my thoughts out on paper and I'm making a twine fanadventure that labels itself as a sequel, given the fact that Hussie has now claimed that every work he involved himself with after the canon ending is postcanon, it left room in my mind that the true canon story is not limited to the whims of one author. And as Sarah Z experienced, Andrew Hussie, What Pumpkin and Viz Media are not sterling keepers of the story: they are in fact quite flawed. I got into Homestuck in 2013, and it was a bad time for me to get into it, I had to be hospitalized as I kinda realized about myself from the actions of these goofy characters. After discovering myself Bipolar, a lot of the experiences I had tried for the first time in high school: anime, clubs, and looming adulthood all weighed heavily at the time. But that's enough for now about that. I do hope you make more videos, or something else you're passionate about. Hopefully it doesn't take 6 months, but I don't speak from experience there: nothing I've done has been that committed. Homestuck was all about endurance pacing in its length: from frequent uploading to MEGAHIATUSES that gave people whiplash in the search of consistent content. You don't rush art, for example GRR Martin's last books in the Fire and Ice series: look at the ending of the televised series to see what results from rushjobs. In turn, I won't spoil Homestuck's ending, but quite a few people weren't happy and became less happy trying to read the followups. I in turn was quite satisfied with the ending in thinking it was like getting to the ending of a video game, not all threads need to be concluded, not all side quests completed, or all coins collected. All in all Homestuck still weighs heavily on me. I would be put sour trying to put a numerical rating on it. Is it the funniest webcomic? No. Is it the most technically impressive? Yes! What lessons does it give? That best efforts fail, and dramatically, and often you need to pull the bunny out of a hat. So many nonsensical threads in there just to fill in space. Chekov's gun? More like Macguffin with no point library. It's video game adaptations all tease that such a popular game, on their world, as Sburb would be a hit here, but the best facsimilie was made by fans and just dips its toes in accomplishing the basics laid out over the course of the first 2 acts. All in all TL;DR: Homestuck is probaly not worth reading, but if you're home stuck in any way, it might be a story just as important or more so than the most pop of pop YA literature.

[@moosesues8887]

Nah U gotta drop act 2 soon

[@primordialaspect]

I wish I could say that was the plan, but I doubt it's ever going to happen

[@celesterojas5304]

Are u go into to make more videos❤🎉

[@CinnamonKnightEntertainment]

Hey, so been a fan for quite some time, not exactly when it came out but not super long after. I think you're a little unfair in your analysis on act one. I'm not sure if you understand some context that maybe I got? But many of the universal explanations of how things work are very much like entering a video game you've never read the instructions for(infamously for those of us who played atari and purchased many a game we had zero idea what it would be like past irrelevant box art and a paragraph blurb on the back of the box) in addition many of those inconsistencies are the silly ways old adventure games used to run.... not sure what you could use or pick up it was trial and error, let alone when you think something should work a certain way and it doesnt....doesn't..... rip sir grahm or whatever from kings quest for the ammount of times you tries to use the water bucket on the dragon and you wernt on the right spot so you just got burnt to a crisp. Many games, like today, wernt complete and things didn't always make sense.... but usually with less graphical issues at the time because.... woof.... look up a screen shot of the old kings quest, space quest, etc Sierra games. Also the light atmosphere without a real time explination of how the time passed is kind of like watching an older cartoon or something like drag BZ where I takes many half an hour episodes for 10 minutes to pass as they "built tension" to destroy the green people world. Act 1 is a light hatred intro designed to casually pull in the bored, less about the hard core fan stuff that came later. Heck I almost quit reading when the stupid pester logs got waaaaaaay too long, but act 1? It's just too casual a tutorial for the comic I think.

[@primordialaspect]

Thank you for commenting. You say that "Homestuck is like something else and therefore it's ok that it doesn't make any sense." This isn't a good argument. First of all, this requires a reader to consume outside material to "get" the story. perhaps it would be different if the book specifically tells the reader to consume that story. But that isn't what is happening here. I've always argued that a story should stand on it's own. Another problem is that you say that it's good because it's like something else, but you haven't proven that that something else is good. Perhaps it would be a good reference, but if the reference damages the characters, plot, world, theme, etc, then the reference shouldn't be there. For me reading your comment it was like you were saying. "It's ok that homestuck is bad, because other things are also bad." I think it's bad that old games were confusing, that the timeline in BDZ is incorrect. There were ways to make those old games better, I know this because I've played good old games. And the DBZ timeline could have been fixed by removing filler or by increasing the time limit. You talk about "light atmosphere." not sure why that's relevant. How light hearted the story is never mentioned in my video.

[@AlphaPizzadog]

1:21:50+5 flashing colors, dont know if its epilepsy inducing but its still kinda annoying regardless

[@primordialaspect]

I thought is would be better safe than sorry

[@loregoblin3854]

I have a different take on the "naming John" portion of the video, just as a point of interest. fair warning to all reading: this comment contains spoilers for later acts when John is introduced, this is actually also the very early introduction of Homestuck's interest in playing with contradictions. if contradictions bother you, this may seem like a bug... but in a place literally known as "paradox" space, it is possible for this to be built in as a feature. and actually, that concept will be wholly operative going forward. when the narration says "though it was 13 years ago that he was given life, it is only today that he will be given a name" it is not lying. it is telling the 100% honest truth, which simply changes depending on your perspective. at first blush, what this does is it acknowledges the meta of homestuck as a fictional comic. in-universe, John has ostensibly experienced his whole life history for 13 years. but we, the actual audience members, know that in real life, John's story doesn't begin, and John isn't named, until today... with "today" being the day that the forums named him. in any other story I might consider this explanation to be a bit of a cop out... but Homestuck is a narrative that constantly plays with the fourth wall (sometimes completely literally), asks probing questions about the nature of investment in a narrative, and tries as hard as it can to break the barrier between the reader and the fiction. and that's not even all this part is doing. keep in mind that John's birthday technically lasts for the entire comic up through the end of act 5. we explore that single day in a large amount of detail, but a huge chunk of the comic still happens on John's birthday... including the moment where John creates all those babies in the ectobiology lab. one of those babies is him. it gets sent back in time, but technically John's 13th birthday was also his first. it really is only today that he will be given a name. and, granted, this piece of understanding takes a long time to come to fruition... but it even ties in with other ways that SBURB functions as a game. because really... the process of SBURB's ectobiology equipment creating the infants who will eventually grow up to launch the game in the first place is a game mechanic. paradoxes are a game mechanic, and paradox space eats contradictions for breakfast. it cleans up paradoxes left and right, but more than that... paradoxes are like markers in the history of a thing, which denote its importance. think of how jujus are said to be identifiable by their paradoxical lack of beginning or end. they're considered incredibly powerful artifacts in the world of Homestuck, but the timeline of these objects is also on a set path that is always obligated to make it's way back to it's own beginning. SBURB itself is paradoxically created. the frog ruins exist as a consistent game feature on a meteor in the furthest ring, then get launched at Skaia, get caught by the defense portals and sent to earth, exist on earth for however long it takes the planet to develop intelligent life, and eventually, individual representatives of that intelligent life will decipher the code on the walls of the frog ruins, which are actually instructions for how to code the game, SBURB. it begets itself. and not only that, but upon entering the medium, each player is given their own planet... the land of something and something. but those planets aren't just floating out there, waiting for the players to be transported onto them. no... they literally don't exist until the player enters the medium. and when they begin existing, they come equipped with whole preexisting populations of consorts, all of whom remember having lives, and a culture, and a history... the planet has ancient lore, and a denizen... you can literally see the map of the medium update as each planet is added when each player enters the game. the function of this is to resemble the way video games typically work... you start a new save file on, let's say, legend of Zelda, and although there is no code or programming to make the characters exist before the point when you turn the game on, all the bosses and NPCs still act like they're people with full lives and histories. the medium just functions in a way where that is the actual physical reality for the consorts and denizens. they simultaneously just started existing, and have always been there. it's a game mechanic. basically, homestuck sets up a situation where you think you're watching the characters exist in their version of reality. but the more they play this game, the more it becomes apparent that their entire lives were chock full of indicators that they were fated for something greater, and game mechanics that they simply didn't recognize for what they were. the sylladex is another early sign of this... it's literally a game abstraction that the characters interact with regularly. one might conclude that these people were always meant to be the main characters in this game of SBURB, right down to the game setting them up with mythical hero origin stories befitting of the protagonists. the paradoxical way that John causes his own birth is a marker of mythological significance. and it leaves you with the question of whether their lives were always fake and contrived, or if the game is simply more real than it's initial artificial package led them to believe. the separation between game and reality for the characters in-universe becomes muddier and muddier over time, even in act 1 where John is both running around physically in his home, and acting as basically Rose's in-game character on her screen, in a sims-like capacity. eventually the characters are using magic powers to re-create an alternate version of the world they spent their whole lives growing up on, and like... at that point does the barrier between reality and fiction exist for these characters anymore? does it matter? you can even see this theme crop up in the question of whether free will exists, or matters, if the alpha timeline is always fated to go a particular way. many characters struggle with this... Terezi, Aradia, Rose, Karkat... they all question whether or not their personal choices, or wants for themselves, even matter. are they scripted or autonomous people? are they artificially constructed player characters, or are they real? and none of this is meant to blow John's naming out of proportion... you could start from any of the individual pieces I've mentioned and still daisy chain your way to the rest of these ideas eventually. heck, I could even connect this all up to the alchemy system and point out that, when you captchalog something, you basically get a code that will reproduce the object, exactly as it was when it was stored. and then, with that code, you can create multiple identical copies of it. so if you captchaloged, say, an old rotting apple, and then made five copies of that apple, you'd end up with something that both displays physical signs of it's age, and is brand new, all at once. when you look at all of SBURB's game mechanics together, the pattern is clear. this story loves to create paradoxical contradictions, and it uses them as a form of mysticism.

[@primordialaspect]

Yay, another long comment for me to reply to, these always make me excited. My hands were literally shaking while writing this, which made it hard to type. first things first I'm going to directly quote my video. "like in many video games the name of the main character is chosen by the player. This is fine, depending on the execution, so let’s look at the wording of the narrator, “it is only today he will be given a name!” this isn’t a typo, in this universe people are named on their 13th birthday. I feel like I don’t need to say how nonsensical this is, that people live without names for 13 years, imagine teachers trying to interact with their students. Also why does the Narreader get to do this and not our hero’s father? Most video games avoid this issue by retroactively changing the name. So that naming the character altars history. But Homestuck doesn’t go this route, and it makes its world seem unrealistic." It's important to note that I say it's fine that the characters are named by the player, the problem is that it isn't retroactive. This is the point you are disputing, that it's fine for John to not have a name for the first 13 years of his life. First, you talk about paradox space and you state it eats contradictions, that is incorrect. Page 1524 "GC: L1ST3N TH3 UN1V3RS3 W1LL 34T P4R4DOX3S FOR BR34KF4ST." paradox space exists to fix time paradoxes, it will create a doomed timeline when something happens that isn't "meant" to happen. Now time paradoxes are contradictions, but they are only a specific type of contradiction. In the next paragraph, you state that technically John didn't have a name before the comic started, because the readers named him. that is true, but as I said in my video the way it's done is not a good thing. But this is fine because then you state the thesis statement of your comment. John's being named the way he is is good because "Homestuck is a narrative that constantly plays with the fourth wall (sometimes completely literally), asks probing questions about the nature of investment in a narrative, and tries as hard as it can to break the barrier between the reader and the fiction." Let's see what connections you can make. First, you mention that it's john's birthday throughout acts 1-5. well, for one thing, that isn't true on page 25 we see that the time is 16:13(4:13PM), and the reckoning is 24 hours long. That being said the ecto babies were probably still made on his birthday, so let's continue. You end it by saying "it really is only today that he will be given a name." I'm a bit confused about what this has to do with anything, it has nothing to do with your thesis statement. At best it's a meta-joke, but it would work the same way if the naming in act 1 wasn't retroactive. In the next paragraph, you talk about how paradox space eats contradictions, like I said earlier, that isn't true. But this is also where you start to compare Homestuck to a video game. you say that the frog temple is a game mechanic, which I don't agree with. Sure they contain the code for a game, but that is like saying my computer is a game mechanic because it has video games on it. you then point started to list a bunch of time paradoxes in the story, mostly where something has no origin. Jujus, and SBURB. But I'm not sure what you want to prove with this. Next, you talk about how the planets have a retroactive history, if anything this helps me, I want his name to be retroactive. You then talk about how all of this is proof that it's like a video game, which even if you are right doesn't prove anything. My criticism is that the name isn't retroactive. Naming Link is retroactive in Zelda games. In the next paragraph you say "basically, Homestuck sets up a situation where you think you're watching the characters exist in their version of reality. but the more they play this game, the more it becomes apparent that their entire lives were chock full of game mechanics that they simply didn't recognize for what they were." If anything the number of video game mechanics decreases over time. I think the sylladex is only shown once in the last 1000 pages. Sure you have SBURB being like the Sims, but that's basically it, and SBURB is literally a video game so I don't think that counts. I never once questioned whether their lives were fake. I'd like you to find some quotes for this because I don't remember any of the characters wondering if they are real. Sure they talk about free will, but that's completely different. Speaking of free will, the dubiousness of free will in Homestuck has nothing to do with video games, it has to do with the mechanics of paradox space. Finally, you talk about how alchemy can create something that looks old, but actually just came into existence. Once again, I don't see how this is a contradiction, it's just magic. Overall, I think you were confused about my point. even if you were to prove that Contradictions were common in the story you still wouldn't prove that the specific contrivance relating to John's name is good. There has to be a standard somewhere for what is good and bad, otherwise, the story is impossible to judge. Well that was a fun 40 minutes, thanks for commenting.

[@loregoblin3854]

@@primordialaspect I think you and I are coming at our outlook on homestuck in two very different ways. you seem to be looking for proof and contradictions. I'm more looking at homestuck in terms of themes and reiterative elements. all the reiterative elements have to do is connect in ways that keep you thinking and asking questions. in some ways, I think homestuck can be less literal and more poetic than how you're taking things, but any perspective is as valid as anything else, and what I'm saying here isn't meant to be reasoning for why any of this shouldn't bother you. my main point is, homestuck presents itself as a story about characters interacting with a game. four characters play a video game is the most basic description of the comic you could give to someone who doesn't know what it's about. but by it's very nature, SBURB doesn't behave like a normal video game. and whether you think the characters are injecting more of their realness into the video game world, or the video game is injecting more of it's abstractions into the players' lives, is a matter of philosophy. when I talk about whether the characters are real or scripted, what I'm talking about is more in reference to the parts of the comic when the characters ruminate on the alpha timeline, and how the course it must take seems already decided. attempts to subvert the course of the alpha timeline will result in doomed offshoots (or, frustratingly, will end up being the means to the very end the character was trying to avoid in the first place). and granted, the literal line in the comic "paradox space eats paradoxes etc" is in reference to this, in a literal sense. I was more intending to expand the thinking outward. I mean... paradox space has to correct a lot of paradoxes, doesn't it? it dooms a lot of timelines, and sometimes the characters have good reason to question why. characters like Aradia especially seem to bump up against this need for time's "correction" in response to certain decisions, in really interesting ways. I think it's interesting to watch Aradia and Sollux especially, deal with the fact that they respectively found the frog ruins and coded SGRUB, and they are also the characters most capable of knowing how this game will eventually harm themselves and the majority of their friends. yet they are powerless to subvert this event because it is so heavily predestined. basically, I think certain character arcs are just a lot more interesting if thought about with the concepts I've outlined in mind. ideas of doom and the inevitable seem just as insurmountable as the actual enemy in homestuck at certain points, and that is the type of "artificiality" that I am referring to when I mention that a lot of pieces of homestuck's world seem more game-like... the characters may not describe their experiences with my literal same exact words, but the characters do start to frustrate themselves by bumping up against the limitations of their reality in ways they can actually experience, and eventually, in ways they can manipulate via their powers. I'd consider Aradia to be a character that has a whole breakdown about fate and it's inevitability... there's that one pesterlog where she starts trying to say the most random things she possibly can, just to try and see if time can anticipate it all... the futility of it causes her genuine distress. or, the whole creation of Davesprite is a good example of this... Terezi can't just do anything she wants. or rather, she can... but she still doesn't really change the things she wanted to. anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that when John is "named on his 13th birthday" it actually might be a Link situation. Hussie did not actually write John's story prior to page one. we assume that John has memories of his life up until this point, in his brain, but it's just like the salamanders on LOWAS. that planet blipped into existence when John entered the medium, yet when he talks to the salamanders, they'll tell him about history and culture in their land. as far as they know, nothing weird is going on. and that was the point of my example of alchemizing an old apple... you can alchemize something that exhibits signs of age, but has no history. the original apple has a history... it is the object that began existing, and then got older, got captchaloged, etc. if it were not an inanimate object, it might even be able to remember and tell you it's history. and yet, the new apple is still new, even if the code that begat it is set to produce something with wear and tear that could only come from aging. but then you say, it's just magic. and that's a really interesting thing to say, because where does magic come from in homestuck? to my remembering, the characters don't have access to any kind of magic until they start playing the game. and the specific magic of alchemy in SBURB comes from in-game machines. homestuck muddles things by making a lot of the initial magical elements in the game come from machines, thereby framing it as a type of science or technology. but those distinctions mean less as the mechanical elements cease to be particularly useful throughout the course of the game. because a lot of the characters develop god tier powers that cover a lot of the bases that the technology used to be essential for. Roxy's void powers, for example, can fully replace the alchemy system. they have no more need for item crafting if Roxy can just make things appear. and she actually solved a fundamental issue with the alchemy system, which is that it can only combine existing objects. if you need something fundamental, like, say, an apple... how do you get that? what would you combine that would reasonably produce an apple? this puts you in the realm of philosophy actually, because even if you can think of something, you'd have to see if the systems provided by SBURB would agree. and if there are objects that are inherently irreducible, that's kind of interesting in and of itself. but it makes sense that SBURB would function this way... SBURB is about the main characters. it sets itself up so that their environments must provide the raw ingredients for what they make with the alchemy system, which is why each kid's alchemy binge is so unique to their identity. if they don't have something, or the ingredients for that thing, they can't make it... and, likewise, the stuff they make is based on what they decided were the coolest, most appealing things they own. it's an expression of their identity. and the game makes sure that that's how item crafting has to be in the early game. the ability to make stuff out of thin air is a late game discovery. but even just the idea of the characters having powers creates confusion around the reality or artificiality of themselves and their world. magic powers come from the game. magic wasn't really a thing for these four normal kids until the game began. and by the end of the comic, game machines like the alchemizer are all but defunct... but only because the players all basically have magic now. did the game become real? were the kids always pieces of the game? or can everybody in the pre-SBURB normal world access magic? also, I call the frog ruins a game mechanic because the ruins themselves function like a key item. they exist as a core feature of every session of SBURB, like, every session has one. but the fact that time travel exists, and the fact that the medium and earth are not 100% inaccessible to each other, means that a key item from inside the game can be used in real life. it must be used by real people, and coded with real technology, and used by real computers, but that key item begins existing when the game is launched, and finds it's way to earth via time travel. and as weird as it is to think of a game item coming into the real world like that... the characters are the same way. technically, the ectobiology equipment in the furthest ring is similar to the magical science equipment that comprises the alchemy system. and it doesn't start existing until the game is booted up. and due to the way timelines indicate predestination in homestuck, when John finds the equipment in the furthest ring and uses it to make all those babies... those are characters that were created in-game, and destined to be as real as people are in general. they literally have to take the same path to get to earth as the frog ruins (albeit imported to a different time) because they started in the game and have to get to earth somehow. the timeline in which John was born like any other human being doesn't exist, this was always where he came from. and when the characters become aware that this is their origin, and begin thinking about the game in terms of how real or fake it is, they basically have to consider themselves to be more aligned with the game than actual reality... if those two things were ever different to begin with. I think that if the reader starts with the assumption that John's reality works the same as the kind of reality we're used to, that is possibly a mistake... though it also might be an intentional misdirection by the narrative. the way timelines work for these characters isn't the way they work for us irl at all, and it's entirely because these characters have things, like time travel, which allow them to look at time as if it's scripted, and question whether or not it can be changed. they have the ability to test those boundaries, like with Terezi and her coin flip tactic. and a lot of the questions that come up during this examination are philosophical, and may not have concrete answers.

[@loregoblin3854]

oh, also, to clear up a small point of confusion, I think we are supposed to assume that John Egbert has been called John Egbert all his life... it's just that the player is only naming his character for the sake of our time viewing him at the age of 13. and the fact that John causes his own existence on his 13th birthday, and knows his own name, means that John is technically the first person to interact with John Egbert, while also knowing his name is John Egbert, directly after he is born. and if you want additional semi-proof of this concept... it is implied that if the name "John Egbert" was not the name typed into the name entry slot, it would be wrong. "Zoosmell Pooplord" was wrong. and while I can't guarantee that all other answers would be wrong, it is possible that John Egbert would be the only correct answer, because John knows what his name is supposed to be. the readers are simply cheeky bastards who would've named him something stupid if it wasn't against the rules.

[@primordialaspect]

@@loregoblin3854 This took a while, The comment below is the result of several redrafts, it was a lot of fun to put together. But I’m going to be frank with you. You are really hard to understand sometimes, in your first comment I was really confused about what your overall point was. I just decided to respond to the individual points you made. Don’t feel too bad, KZbin comments don’t require multiple drafts so I don’t blame you. I’m just really weird for doing it.. From what I gather now, I think you are trying to demonstrate your ideology for judging storytelling. At least that is what the first and last paragraphs talk about. You wish to prove that your way of doing things is better and that is what the rest of the paragraphs are for. To put it bluntly, the way you view stories, or at the very least Homestuck, is to find patterns, and if the idea behind the pattern raises questions that make you think, then it is good. Or in other words, you put themes above everything. which I understand as it's one of the pillars of storytelling (Character, Plot, World, and Theme) Now it would be disingenuous to say that themes are the only thing you care about. Just look at your comment. You look at how the characters in the story deal with living in a video game world. You create many points relating to this concept. It’s a theme involving characters and world building On the other hand I view things from a plot perspective, I go plot point by plot point and analyze the 4 pillars at each point. One reason why I think this is better is because everything in the story is part of the plot, including the themes, so by viewing things this way, you will see everything. It’s also very simple to do as you just need to follow the story. That being said, in the conclusion of my video I pull together many of the points I made across it to make conclusions. I looked at the four pillars one at that time. Although I couldn’t find any consistent themes in act 1, so I decided to not talk about that. So I do exactly what you do but with even more added on and the only thing I’ve added on that you have a problem with is that you seem to think that I won’t accept things that aren’t concrete. That isn’t true at all. As an example, in my video I never question why the sylladex exists. I even say this in my conclusion, “If the Sylladex was nothing more than a magic backpack with a modus that gives it extra rules, I would be perfectly fine with it. And in fact, that’s how it will be after act 2.” And I’m sorry but John not having a name for the first 13 years of his life is not up for debate. Here is a quote from page 2770 where Sollux tries to name baby dave. there it says “You cannot name him yet, no matter how inthufferable you find this coolkid to be! You will need to wait until his wriggling day, when he turns six solar sweeps.” While I’m at it, I should also point out that The Medium isn’t a video game. As seen on page 421 "NANNASPRITE: No, John. You are not inside a computer or software or anything like that! Try not to be so linear, dear. The software that brought you here was merely a mechanism that served as a gateway! Its routines in a way served to invoke this realm's instance, yet it stands independently of any physical machine, and somewhat paradoxically, always has!" I’m not going to go through every point you made that I disagree with, as most of them are made irrelevant by the above quote. That being said, mostly because I find the subject really interesting. I want to point out that magic does exist before SBURB, we have four instances. Rose was able to tell John was wearing a silly disguise in act 1, Jade said she can sense things around her in act 3. The reason Doc Scratch couldn't see the cue ball in Vriska's possession was because she lived next door to Equius, who has void powers, and also Roxy's void powers prevent Caliborn and Calliope from seeing her when she wasn't drunk. Anyway, while you are right that there is no correct perspective to judge stories on, there are at least some that are more universally useful, and I would say that mine is more universally useful than yours.

[@loregoblin3854]

@@primordialaspect see, in my opinion, you're being (and taking things as) more combative than I've intended, or than they're required to be. nothing I've said is meant to prove you wrong... though, for your consideration, I would like to mention that taking things in chronological order and only assessing them as they go is... either going to miss a lot of things, or going to require a lot of extra work. because within homestuck, many later plot points will recontextualize earlier plot points. and sometimes those earlier plot points don't make sense until the later plot points give you the rest of the information you need. if you compartmentalize the information too much, and don't allow for any bleed over, then you either miss a lot of things, or have to do massive amounts of backtracking. the way I analyze homestuck is by following concepts from one to the next with the entire narrative in mind, and pick out patterns when I see them. in this instance, I'm only focusing on John's naming, the possible implications of this information, and things that this reminds me of from other parts of the comic... but I am hopping around the comic's events to pull in other associations. one thing I will push back on is the idea that John _must_ be nameless for his whole 13 years up until the player character names him, in exactly as bizarre of a way as that would suggest for a peer of yours or mine in real life. the whole "zoosmell pooplord" thing indicates that there is a wrong way to put a name into that space, and John knows when he's been named wrong... he even makes a little face about it, showing that he's aware of what you put, despite not really acknowledging this event ever again. Sollux can't enter baby Dave's name yet because he is not yet "playable" aka observable by the reader in a linear fashion yet. and beyond that, you seem really determined to 100% decouple the in-universe canonical aspects of homestuck from anything meta, but that's just not how the comic works. audience decisions and commands have always affected homestuck. even after Hussie stopped taking commands from the forums, he was online, same as the comic's fans, and he'd frequently reference common memes from within the community. Andrew Hussie himself literally shows up in the comic many times, at one point he kisses Rufio... not Rufioh the troll, but actual character Rufio played by Dante Basco, and John sees that happen in the clouds on Skaia... this whole comic doesn't even care about separating the reality from the fiction, and yeah, it is messy. which is to say that, when I assert that John literally didn't exist before Hussie started writing his story, and the idea that John wasn't named until his 13th birthday is simply a nod to that, I don't think I'm off base. especially because other objects and beings inside of the comic have this same seemingly contradictory condition where they remember their entire life history, but only began existing moments ago. but also, you're free to just... not believe me. that's fine, and like... I'm not trying to stress you with anything I'm saying, or cause you to put in more work on these comments than you were bargaining for. my intent was never to prove anything right or wrong with certainty... just to offer a potential alternative perspective on the events that homestuck has put forth. I don't think anyone is required to be labeled as wrong here... there are many valid ways to look at a work, and I had thought it would be valuable for yours and mine to exist at once, even if they do end up contradicting. short of asking Hussie for his authorial intent, there's no real way to corroborate whether the comic was meant to be taken as literally as what you've stated, or with as much metatextual fluidity as what I've outlined. and even authorial intent may not matter so much if a large number of people can still pull an unintentional meaning out of a work. oh, but on the subject of SBURB being a game... I guess I wasn't sure what angle you were coming at it from, but like... in terms of what SBURB is, I think it's safe to say that it initially presents itself with gamified elements, and uses game logic as a way of framing a lot of how homestuck's world works. Hussie himself once said of homestuck: "HS is supposedly a story that is also a game. In games, the characters die all the time. How many times did you let Mario fall in the pit before he saved the princess? Who weeps for these Marios. In games your characters die, but you keep trying and trying and rebooting and resetting until finally they make it. When you play a game this process is all very impersonal. Once you finally win, when all is said and done those deaths didn’t “count”, only the linear path of the final victorious version of the character is considered “real”. Mario never actually died, did he? Except the omniscient player knows better. HS seems to combine all the meaningless deaths of a trial-and-error game journey with the way death is treated dramatically in other media, where unlike our oblivious Mario, the characters are aware and afraid of the many deaths they must experience before finally winning the game." to me, this indicates that the world of homestuck runs like a game, but treats the characters experiencing that game-like existence with real world gravitas. so like... I do have grounds to assume that the way the physical world functions inside of homestuck is game-like, even if it is not run on a computer. and to go a step further... it's not just the idea of John and his friends playing SBURB that this applies to. we, the readers, act as the "players" of Hussie's comic, which uses game lingo and presentation to describe itself. if we need to know something about John from prior to page one, it'll come up. but if John seems intentionally stupid, or if something seems "tutorial-like" in the early acts, this is probably why. we're probably being asked to suspend our disbelief in the same way video games expect you to when a character turns toward the camera and explains what the buttons do. if an NPC tells the player character "press X to eat food so you don't starve" that doesn't mean that the character has literally never heard of eating or starving before. also... hm. I hesitate to mention this, because the video I'm about to name drop is long and technical, and I really don't want you to feel obligated to do chores for these comments, but there's a really fascinating video on youtube by a channel called Tex Talks called Computer Science and World Building in Homestuck. it's a really comprehensive examination of the way homestuck's reality functions in computer-like ways, and it breaks open a lot of the concepts that homestuck bats around and explains them in a way I find really competent. I could begin to outline the parts of that video that I find relevant to this conversation, but tbh, this comment is long enough, the video does it better, and I'd be at risk of just paraphrasing a lot of it... watch it if you're interested, but only if you feel you actually have the mental energy for it.

[@eatmynutsarchmage4883]

me likey

[@Aurelian_Sol_Invictus]

By any chance, are you a fan of Mauler?

[@nachfullbarertrank5230]

this is basically mauler but good

[@primordialaspect]

That is an absolutely amazing compliment, yes I am indeed a fan of Mauler

[@primordialaspect]

@Nachfüllbarer Trank I'm not sure what you mean by "Mauler but good" I think Mauler is pretty good

[@blakethesnake6686]

@@primordialaspect they mean you are better than mauler

[@primordialaspect]

@Nachfüllbarer Trank Well, thanks for the compliment but I can't say I agree

[@snailshoes9911]

this is what happens when people start thinking cinema sins is good media criticism

[@primordialaspect]

I don't think cinema sins is good media criticism they are frequently inaccurate. One big difference between us is that I explain my criticisms. I'm curious what you find an issue with

[@snakey5474]

will he see my comment?

[@primordialaspect]

Yes

[@caseyclosed]

no one is allowed to like this video. not because its bad or anything, but it can not stop being at 413 likes.

[@primordialaspect]

I'm superpised someone caught it at just the right time. Pretty cool

[@caseyclosed]

@@primordialaspect hey, theres enough crazy coincidences in this life for me to randomly end up finding this video in a weird homestuck rabbit hole at 1 am.