A Deep Dive Into the Internet’s Most Controversial Knitting Site: Ravelry (part 1)

[@emmainthemoment]

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[@xavigav]

Looks awesome! I’ll check it out

[@rc31802]

I've downloaded it!

[@AineHowTo]

My boyfriend uses it all the time, it's actually great

[@irmar]

@@xavigav Did you see? The free plan only allows you to make 100 notes, images or links, 10 file uploads. After that you have to pay 10 dollars per month

[@dqverify6797]

Admit it. The celebrity client you mentioned was Bert from Sesame Street, wasn’t it. He’s going to take “Doing the Pigeon” to a whole new level now!

[@ashleyelizabeth6094]

Absolutely lost it at the "im gonna knit a pot holder for mothers day but if I don't finish in time im gonna make one for fathers day" kid. Shes goin places

[@basementdwellercosplay]

Someone's getting that potholder whether they need it or not!

[@alexandracenuse9419]

She's in her 20's now, since that video was shot in 2007... I wonder how she's doing

[@neens7619]

She might there get there on time, but she’s going

[@PACMANnot]

I'm in that clip and I don’t know how I feel about it. *eyes WIP blanket that was supposed to be a birthday present 6-7 years ago*

[@imbluedubbadee]

An absolute legend 😁

[@spaceforbrains]

"If you wanted a shorter, more condensed version of this story" I did not. I'm currently crocheting a queen size blanket out of worsted weight yarn. I am here for a Part 1 video that is an hour and a half long.

[@RachelJennetti]

You are brave 😂 i’ve given up on so many

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

That's a huge blanket! Wow! How long will it take to go from a pile of yarn to a finished product? Sorry, I get really impressed by people who can do things since I cannot, and my brain fills with questions. You don't have to answer this silly question if you don't want to.

[@tyf.5111]

​@ChristopherSadlowski It definitely depends on an artist's speed and how much time they're dedicating, but typically a blanket of that size with yarn of that size will take a month or more.

[@misamisaa4547]

I do the same thing! Videos on general drama or "I read this popular book so you don't have to" are cool & all but it hits different when you're learning about specific hobby drama while doing that hobby xD

[@SueWoods-xj5kf]

I was looking for something to watch as a hand sewed a historical gown. I don't even knit or crochet. But, this was interesting while I sewed.

[@fon420]

so let me get this straight.........the olympics tried to use their overwhelming resources to shut down an indie knitting event that did not actually infringe on their trademark but could POSSIBLY harm their brand....and then as an apology, commissioned a non-affiliated group and then asked the knitting community they directly insulted to give them free crafts.............

[@kray3883]

That is actually pretty mild for Olympic shenanigans. I think they've toned it down recently but the IOC and USOC used to be notorious for this stuff.

[@emilyrln]

Yeah, the IOC has a frankly astonishing amount of authority to "protect their brand" 😅 I looked into it awhile back when I was making ads for work that loosely tied into the Olympics. There are some very specific rules even beyond the use of the word "Olympic" and derivatives and the linked rings logo, but the only one I can remember is that you can't say "go for the gold."

[@sarahswanson7745]

and weren’t they giving the money raised to the Paralympics? like that letter was so rude.

[@thewhatshouldmynameb]

my mum recently (like, last month) met a guy who works for the IOC legal team and he said his full time 9-5 5 days a week job is just finding random people online who are using "the olympics" or the rings or whatever and sending them cease and desists. that's all he does with his day. he's part of a team where everyone just does that all day.

[@schoolingdiana9086]

@@thewhatshouldmynamebThey did that to the state of Washington about 10 years ago, when they noticed the mountain range in Western Washington (and the peninsula on which they reside) are called the Olympic Mountains/Olympic Peninsula. Their cease and desist went nowhere because the mountains/peninsula have been called that for decades before anyone even thought of starting the modern Olympic Games.

[@ShadowleeKnits]

With the "Bunker Babes" banning: one part of the story that always gets glossed over is that the "Bunker Babes" created a forum on another website. They then used that website to organise trolling of various threads on Ravelry forums - it was really obvious what was happening because there'd be a bunch of people with "CBB" (which means "censored Bunker Babe") in their avatar who would show up and start an argument in a thread. Cassidy figured out what was happening because she could see that they were all following links to Ravelry from this other website. She didn't ban every member of the Bunker group, just the ones who through the Bunker's separate website to troll in the forums.

[@leileyaravencroft]

Ah. Okay, I am not so upset about the banning then.

[@owentheslug]

yeah the brigading was heavy, targeted & hostile.

[@preciousroihomeshoppingnet7908]

This is a much better argument than trying to draw a false parallel between a website that presents as a public platform and someone's personal blog.

[@heatherhartman6727]

I was going to mention this. There was a lot more to all of these stories

[@jgunn03]

Than you for bringing this to the the attention of the comment-lurkers. It brings a new dynamic to the conversation.

[@daijabrown8185]

"when did the world get so hypersensitive that we cant voice our opinion" and their "opinion" is the most vile, dehumanizing and devaluing thing that they can say about another person.

[@ErutaniaRose]

Literally.

[@Daisy-Doo]

i think what you think is "the most vile and dehumanizing" is really the sensitive part cause its not that deep

[@daijabrown8185]

@@Daisy-Doo so I just let ppl say stupid shit like that and not be offended?

[@Daisy-Doo]

@@daijabrown8185 be offended if you want but that's your problem, not theirs

[@daijabrown8185]

@@Daisy-Doo how about don’t say it weirdo. It’s too easy not to be a twat, much so like you’re doing now. It’s weird asf. Don’t know why you mfs get such a hard on to disrespect ppl. Weird

[@christinesarkis4029]

I've been using Ravelry to keep track of my projects and find patterns for many years, but I have never been involved in the "community". Watching this video, I feel like I have made a wise choice.

[@schoolingdiana9086]

Same here.

[@sunrhyze]

This is absolutely the way to go. I sometimes join a forum to participate in a KAL, and I only discuss the knitting. I have no idea who all those people are or what they think about everything under the sun, and it doesn't matter. You shouldn't have to sign a virtual statement of beliefs and political positions in order to use Ravelry.

[@happyplaceknitsandsews1694]

same

[@louisacapell]

That's how I use it. I used to be on the forums, you know, knit alongs, people who like doctor who , and fun gift swaps. I don't do that anymore because 1 day I logged on and I found that I had been reprimanded or something for making an American Flag motif. That that was somehow racist or homophobic I still haven't figured that out. And then they started deleting anybody who looked conservatives profiles and really just making everything so aggressive in nasty and hostile I didn't use it for a long time, But i'd been there since the beginning and I have so. Many patterns on the database and so many projects notes.. It really would be a shame to lose it all.

[@ering2467]

Same here. I had no idea this was going on. I don’t want to read about politics on a craft website.

[@townfool4682]

there is something so especially juicy about hobby-specific social media sites and their niche drama. thank you so much for sharing this with us :)

[@morigahn]

I love hobby drama. Chess drama is oddly fascinating too.

[@sancochita7392]

​@@morigahn that's so specific 😂

[@ValerieEnriquez]

@@morigahn I only tangentially know about the butt plug saga because my bf is into chess, but yeah, that was absolutely wild.

[@morigahn]

@sancochita7392 when I think of hobby drama, I think about chess and D&D 😂 I went down a weird rabbit hole with chess, it wasn't a community I'd have expected drama from lol

[@xavigav]

There’s a really cool subreddit called r/HobbyDrama that has a TON of write ups on drama in different hobbies!

[@knitbelove]

I wanted to clarify what you mentioned about Jess putting in all of the patterns herself before volunteer editors. She wasn't adding the actual content of the pattern to the site, but creating a listing for it that was searchable in the database and indicating where you could get the pattern, whether that was free on somebody's blog, or for purchase in a book or magazine. The designer's consent isn't necessary because the actual IP isn't being provided. Rav is very serious about copyright and don't like getting used for extralegal sharing. (For reference, I've been a very active Ravelry user since 2008 and I've been aware of allllll this drama and it's fun to see it presented this way!!)

[@Kimberly_Sparkles]

No, initially, it was the whole pattern. They were being cut and pasted into the pattern notes. Designers pushed back hard because of the copyright violation.

[@nesspyr]

that's so cool!!

[@jandroid1962]

I love Ravelry. On days when I really want to fall down the crafting hole I start with Pinterest, pull up Etsy and Ravelry and just lose myself in an overwhelming abundance of inspiration.

[@elektrarj2]

​That were users doing. Not the site sharing ccontent w/o permission Patterns are either uploaded by designers or linked to external site (usually designer site or publisher, etc) even if a designer uploads a free patterns and for some reason does not link to own profile, they will send message, confirm, ask if they should link as author There's no piracy in rav aa far as I know or seen since I Ve signed in, waaay before the trolls and it was a small community, hate free, collaborative and safe

[@wisdomteethsoup]

Ravelry switching from a pun on the Olympic Games to a pun on the Panhellenic games is iconic honestly

[@india1422]

People who stir things up and then play “ isn’t it awful that we can’t agree to disagree and all just get on with each other?” Card really grind my gears.

[@Elirum]

The mental gymnastics required is insane

[@SuzanneAtwood]

As someone who has been on Ravelry since 2007, I appreciate this legwork. If someone asked me to give them a history of Ravelry off the top of my head, I think I would self combust. There’s just so much.

[@kelsey5093]

“So, let’s dive into the Nazi bunker” left me GAGGED omg what a twist

[@isabelannie8414]

when you referred to deplorable knitter as anti-mask it took me a full 10 seconds to figure out what that meant because my brain went straight to masc women. being gay really is my undoing...

[@beesie5474]

They're probably that type of anti-masc too, so your brain wasn't entirely wrong.

[@cryptilli]

if someone is anti masc theyre gonna catch my femme hands

[@BiggerinRealLife]

Same!!!😂

[@witchcraftandlizardry]

Wow there are so many meanings like I think of mask as in masking neurodivergent ppl do but some ppl think of Covid masks now I have another meaning

[@blakelay]

To be fair she is probably also anti-masc women LOL

[@williamfragaszy6016]

Those knitters who complain about free speech not allowed on Ravelry should reread the Constitution, which says that the Congress (usually interpreted as the government) can’t abridge the freedom of speech. The constitution does not prohibit non-governmental organizations from prohibiting speech.

[@Rain_Reign]

Yeah it’s hilarious how such apparently rabid fans of the Constitution seem not to have read it. I could go on a whole rant about the 2nd Amendment as well…🙈

[@henryfitzgerald5857]

Well, exactly. The US constitution only talks about the US government. And free speech is a far broader matter than what the US government should and should not do. We can all legitimately criticise restrictions on free speech imposed by all manner of parties other than the US government-including, but not limited to: the umpteen hundred OTHER governments in the world; social media sites (such as Ravelry); universities; the Catholic Church, the Mafia, Islamic terrorists, one's fellow citizens generally, etc. I've lost count of how many times I've made a comment about worrying abridgements on free speech and some nitwit starts irrelevantly rabbiting on about the US Constitution, a topic I never mentioned and have no interest in. I'm not even American!

[@Trippy_Space_Bunny]

@@Rain_Reign I mean it tracks with how they treat their holy sacred text so🤷🏻‍♀️

[@Rain_Reign]

@@Trippy_Space_Bunny touché!

[@M_M_ODonnell]

Funny how the Freeze Peach crowd only complains about the violation of their rights when it's specifically the right to call for the suppression and/or elimination of other people in spaces including (and/or run in part by) their targets.

[@anxiety_arcade]

I had a ouija board blanket pattern removed from ravelry. They claimed it stole someone else's design and linked a random redbubble page selling a ouija poster that was nothing like it other than being a ouija board. I spent ages designing it to be different and there's hundreds of patterns that are similar to other patterns but whatever. The point is, they don't let you contact them! I've spent 2 years trying to email them, or get a response in some way, and nothing. They just Bury it. Its so frustrating but also just unfair, I've seen people have their stuff randomly deleted too.

[@williammiller3277]

Thats gonna happen with moderation. Over strict the safe way to go. You go the other way and you get sued more often.

[@nearlynight]

the ironic thing about this is that redbubble sellers ROUTINELY rip designs from other artists. when my partner was 15!!! years old, a popular RB seller stole his art and sold mugs, stickers, notebooks and posters of it without contact or permission. redbubble REFUSED to take it down. it's a legit way to sell your own art but god do you have to take the designs there with a grain of salt if you're not 1000% sure it's original to them

[@pokelover02]

⁠Google reverse image search is great for finding original artists, thankfully

[@anonymoustree2708]

ive found ribblr to be much easier in terms of an appeals process for pattern removal

[@DxityDoo]

Finding out that ravelry is run by 4 ppl makes a lot of the later controversies make a lot of sense. Like yeah duh they’re banning ppl talking about trump coz theres only 4 of them so they have to see all the discussions, no matter how tame or aggressive and that can be exhausting.

[@angelsnaiilz]

exactly, i can’t blame them at all

[@asmrtpop2676]

I think more websites need to take hard stances like this anyway. Tolerating intolerance is…. bigotry.

[@Italianwatcher]

​@@asmrtpop2676contradiction much?

[@Italianwatcher]

😂😂 poor baby, free speech literally protects the speech that triggers you. Go be a bootlicker to your fascist despot. "CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS ARE NOT ABSOLUTE " Joe Biden

[@Italianwatcher]

​@@angelsnaiilz ok fascist

[@beccak8166]

Wow I think it was so shitty of the Olympic committee to come after this knitting site for their knit along to the Olympics. That's so embarrassing for the Olympics that they had to backtrack and apologize. Obviously the Olympic committee has a trademark on the term but imo that in and of itself is ridiculous because it's a historic term that's been used for thousands of years.

[@sophiewiest1493]

secondly, they completely ignored that the term olympic applies as just the english translation for whatever other languages equivalent you can think of, and that the US is not the only country with the term olypmics (just saying that currently english is one of the official languages in about 70 countries) and therefore they 1. simply assumed that they meant the US olympics team, because the founders are americans, 2. they proved something the whole world looks critically at: the probably slight unhealthiness of american patriotism. Of course the ravelers are still welcomed to support the US team... while the kind letter author didn't think of other nations being present on that forum. congrats on being an intolerant patriotic idiot... imo. Don't get me wrong, I am not mad at people being proud of their country and and supporting it (even though I am german and therefore we always have to fight on every bit of patriotism we show, proving that its not nationalism and I grew up thinking patriotism is a bad thing), but I think some kind of second-guessing and global thinking wouldn't be a bad thing for some patriotists.

[@Iggystar71]

I recall the condescending cease and desist letter being so insulting. Not to mention no one would think the Ravelympics was associated with the official games…so stupid.

[@forest_green]

That's not even the only Olympics knitting controversy. The Hudson's Bay company tried to sell Olympics themed "Cowichan sweaters", which are a specific kind of sweater knit only by members of the Cowichan tribe (and some other Coast Salish tribes in the area) that totally ripped off their designs and didn't benefit the artisans at all.

[@velvi8359]

I remember in college a professor told us about the time the Olympics came to Atlanta. Representatives of the organization swept through the city to send out cease and desists to any small business even remotely Olympic themed, including the over-priced, old money private school said prof was working for at the time. The private school had enough F-You money and influence to tell them to get lost, but a lot of businesses had to take down their signs while the event was being held. The Olympics is ridiculous when it comes to "protecting"their trademark.

[@adamuffoletto7869]

I'm frankly surprised (but only mildly, considering... America) that "Olympic" can even be copyrighted. So nobody can ambiguously refer to something occurring in the Greek polis of Olympia without it being misconstrued as a reference to the Olympics? That's the vibe this rude ass letter was giving off

[@jenndoesstuff]

idk, I feel like people should be allowed to make whatever art they want, but Ravelry should also be allowed to choose what happens on their own site. If the conservative knitters want to go make their own conservative knitting site, I guess they can go ahead. Under their own logic, they're not entitled to force a small business to respect their political beliefs, so they shouldn't be complaining.

[@nataliepaad1869]

Exactly!!

[@jessicacroteau5600]

The people who cite their right to free speech often forget that websites are (mostly) owned and operated by other private citizens. 🤷‍♀️

[@Grace-ms7un]

Yay private business! 😂

[@jenndoesstuff]

@@jessicacroteau5600 Those people typically don't even know that 1A only applies to the government and that private entities can restrict pretty much any kind of speech they want. They talk about it like it's some kind of magical fae law that binds all living things.

[@M123Xoxo]

It's crazy that political discussions of any type are/were allowed on a hobby website. You'd think it would be a place that's a refuge from the world, in a way. Even if I agree with someone's politics, I don't want to be preached at while trying to relax and have fun.

[@Ashbrash1998]

It's strange to take Ravelry's new policy as prohibiting conversations between the two sides and separating the two groups making them unable to bond over the craft. When they literally were trolling and doxxing eachother before the ban, and not stopping. So the love of the craft wasn't stopping anything at all.

[@libsyates2426]

I feel like I see stories on it all the time where conservatives get mad that they are no longer welcome in certain spaces and cite an erasure of conservatism when the real reason being presented is usually something like misinformation, doxxing, or hate speech.

[@DeannaWillistonOFS]

While there were some overly political groups, most of us where in groups based on like moths or flowers or hats. We were the ones reaching across lines & ended up losing a lot of good friends when people polarized after the decision came out.

[@justkiddin84]

@@DeannaWillistonOFSThat’s sad. Really the best thing would have been to ban all politics and all trolls. And enforce it ruthlessly on all sides.

[@DeannaWillistonOFS]

@@justkiddin84 agreed. It was the post detailing how to flag any content from one view that pushed everyone over the top. I still use the site occasionally for reference, but all my forum groups fell apart & I would not feel safe trying to build community there again.

[@asmrtpop2676]

@@justkiddin84There is no reason to ban all politics to spare the feelings of bigots. But it was a slap in the face for how they handled the Olympics topic.!

[@cardinalartist]

“we didn’t have to agree to get along” girlie you think i shouldn’t exist for being fruity, that’s not a disagreement , those are fighting words

[@restingsadface]

it’s almost like they think that just like how them hating us is a purposeful decision, us being gay must also be a purposeful decision. ig theoretically both groups should be able to leave their beliefs at the door, as if being gay and wanting gay people to die are equally morally neutral choices 🙄

[@curtiepi]

I think you think too much about yourself. No one cares.

[@casuallyceltic]

Right? A disagreement is whether or not you like carrot cake. But to condem a whole group of people based on something that isn't their choice is, oh, what's the word? Deplorable.

[@asmrtpop2676]

@@casuallycelticAnd it’s so funny how seriously they felt offended by being called “deplorable”. 😂

[@Italianwatcher]

​@@asmrtpop2676 as you group all people together. You intolerant leftists are so weak

[@MaxsFriends]

I saw someone say once that the paradox of tolerance is resolved if you consider it as a social contract rather than a moral standard. Once the contract is violated, the intolerant person is no longer owed tolerance.

[@rachelv5076]

You can’t escape the fact that it’s a moral standard. According to one social construct that a large amount of people adhere to someone can be considered to be intolerant, but that intolerant person is merely adhering to another social construct that a large amount of people adhere to as well. If you claim one construct is better, more correct etc. then you are making a moral judgement, aka creating a moral standard. It’s circular reasoning

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

@@rachelv5076 Socialists have very different values than Conservatives. Conservatives where just the first political group targeted

[@nokeechia]

@@rachelv5076 I would like your description if morality is a social construct in itself, as I would expect it would be, morality seems to be a combination of our evolutionary, environmental and societal pressures

[@babyvia6712]

@@rachelv5076I mean your argument rests upon the belief that making a moral judgement is inappropriate, when it’s actually a correct and okay thing to do. So, not being tolerant to bigots is making a moral judgement which is, in fact, correct.

[@TH0KH]

​@@Sarah-with-an-Hyou mean after they targeted everyone else they hate first? Yeah sounds about right 😊

[@aisling7244]

The “what would you do to Sarah Palin?” thread ABSOLUTELY should have been shut down! I have very little faith that that thread wasn’t chockfull of misogyny and threats of gender-based violence. Unfortunately, I’ve met my fair share of liberals who think the various -isms suddenly become okay if they’re deployed against their enemies.

[@justine8387]

Yeah, it really makes my skin crawl when I realise that some people think that women should be or shouldn't be on the receiving end of gender based violence only of they deem them to be a "good woman" i.e. behaving in a way they deem appropriate. Let's you know they really believe that gender based violence is okay.

[@elainelouve]

Same. I'm not on Ravelry, but liberals will happily body shame, make fatphobic jokes and engage in horribly ableist behavior, just if the target is a conservative. (I'm a leftist.)

[@AlderDelRef]

Sarah Palin is a bad person who doesn't deserve political power in my opinion. That's it. The amount of violent comments I've heard or read pointed towards conservative women is appalling. We as a whole should be better than that. And I'm ashamed of the people in my political party who speak like that while also touting peace, kindness, and tolerance

[@aerynea]

I don't know about that thread specifically I definitely saw threads removed that advocated bad acts towards conservatives

[@sunrhyze]

You haven't heard anything until you witness the treatment of black Republicans by the Left for not being "politically black." The verbal insults, hauling out every vile epithet that can't even be printed here, is blood curdling. Just another example of the raging hypocrisy I'm finally clear eyed enough to see in the last few years.

[@pluutonius]

Just personally, it always makes me so angry when someone says that "passionate conversations about opposing beliefs" are good, because in my experience, they end with someone growing upset and getting ridiculed for their inability to remain calm as their livelihood is belittled. Banning white supremacy and hateful talking points is a good decision and I stand by that.

[@mysticmom616]

I feel like if I say I’m a Trump supporter I’m immediately labeled a white supremist, misogynistic homophobic deplorable. I’m none of those. So for fear of that, I feel like I have censor my freedom of speech because of the bigotry of others.

[@charlibrown7745]

But there was no white supremacy, it was a smear.

[@ettaetta439]

Exactly. Passionate conversations about opposing beliefs can be amazing, if both parties are willing and able to listen and if it is a conversation. If it's just a monologue of hateful beliefs being given a platform to be respected rather than debunked, and/or one or both parties are unwilling to change their beliefs towards the obviously non-bigoted ones, then there's no point. It's not a passionate conversation, it's a hateful bigot being treated as if their opinions actually have any weight.

[@carneliancaryatid]

Except that none of the people banned were actually white supremacists. Saying they are because "Cassidy" said so doesn't mean that they actually are. Just like CNN saying that Republicans are white supremacists (or racists or whatever) doesn't mean that Republicans are actually white supremacists. That is the entire problem with modern conversations. One side insists that anyone who disagrees with them is an evil person, without evidence, against all logic or reason.

[@PrivacyTermsCopyriii]

Yes, march that goose step in rhythm, you’re getting it! Now, we just label anything we can get away with, that is to say, anything we don’t like or we find inconvenient or uncomfortable, for example, like the fact that transgender surgery (genital mutilation) doesn’t reduce suicidal ideation or the act itself (it can even increase it) or that “affirming” (drugging) children who have been sexually abused or manipulated into thinking they are “trans” is actually causing an increase in suicide, not a reduction. Opposing blanket open border policies is now classed as “white supremacy”, while you certainly don’t want that in practice, if you said anything, you’d be hit with that label. First, identify a classification of speech and turn enough people against it. Second, call for that class of speech (typically identity based) to be banned as “harmful” (as a general rule, no speech on its own can cause harm, it requires a third party to act). Third, declare anything you disagree with, anything that challenges you, anything inconvenient, uncomfortable or you need suppressed, into that category of prohibited “harmful” speech. Congratulations, you just followed the model for every genocidal dictatorship in history, you’re officially awful.

[@williammiller3277]

I DO hate people because of their choices. It's called accountability and repercussions. Its the only reason to hate people. What I DONT hate people for is intrinsic things about them that they have NO choice over. 100% will hate you if you make gross, hateful choices.

[@ellaisplotting]

This, exactly. People's actions determine how they should be treated.

[@ErutaniaRose]

Literally this.

[@BiggerinRealLife]

I was in the initial waitlist and working at a knit shop and I remember the anticipation of waiting for that invite email. It was such a big deal to get yours.

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

I joined Ravelry when it stopped being invite only I loved it at the time and back the. It was knitting and crochet didn’t include spinning. However I left Ravelry in 2016 because politics meant it wasn’t actually inclusive and it’s not even an issue concerning my own personal politics just that my values being what they are saw a lot of bullying behavior and exclusion including the banning of patterns that where not bad in any way just more supportive of one team over the other while allowing other patterns to stay that where not as tame but where allowed because of the political team it supported. Uneven inclusivity isn’t actually inclusivity.

[@RachelJennetti]

@@Sarah-with-an-Hi’ve never been on the forums tbh, i joined at 12 (24 now) and until now i didn’t even know they had blogs! 😅 do you find your patterns independently/through etsy? I’d love to know!

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

I search for free patterns and I’ve used knitty for a while too as all the patterns there are free.@@RachelJennetti

[@Iggystar71]

I joined in 2008 before my first knitting lesson. My friend advised me to sign up immediately before I knit my first stitch. Ravelry is an integral part of my knitting journey. There was drama to be found but for me, besides the resource/database aspect, the groups with knit alongs helped be try new patterns, the number of fandom groups dedicated to movie/television show I loved, other groups with hobbies outside of knitting helped with questions. Seems like a bygone era.

[@fawn2911]

​@@Sarah-with-an-H🍅🍅🍅

[@earth2tonez]

the fact that knitting drama is so intertwined with bigotry and weird takes is like… i dont even know. I guess i shouldnt be surprised. also it never fails to amaze me how self acclaimed “politically incorrect” people make the most unappealingly designed propaganda in the world. the designs of the last controversy had me cackling

[@domicofo]

Lmfaooo ikr? The greyest, the most bland shit i've seen in my life.

[@iboofer]

It's a very "traditional" craft, which is bound to attract people cosplaying salt of the earth, Little House on the Prairie types. It's a weird and unnecessary connection which sullies the subject.

[@iwondery1725]

@@iboofer "people cosplaying salt of the earth" - now THAT had me cackling. Thank you!

[@MissKellyBean]

And those “Stop the steal” hats with the “Stop stop stop” and then (presumably) “the the the”.... A little part of me just wanted to hug them and say, “oh hon, let me help you fix that...” 😂

[@candrasowder8236]

Pro Hillary and Biden stuff was allowed, but not Trump. Hillary and Racist Joe are truly racist, but no one has brought that up. Jungles and such...look up their speeches from their pasts and see what they really think of the Bipoc community. Seriously.

[@welpppppppppppppp]

excited but not surprised by the input of librarians on their site design! i'm graduating from library school next week and always wished i'd had a chance to talk about how good the ravelry pattern database was in class 😂 i figured everyone would know because library people have like 5 hobbies including fibre crafts and puzzles

[@Kris-V-123]

Congrats!!!

[@ChristopherSadlowski]

Hey, congrats on graduating! Library and information science is not easy work, but you did it! I recommend a little break; you deserve to unwind and rest.

[@spacecowboi5466]

omg library school?! is that like a separate thing, or is there a specific degree colleges offer? im super interested, and congratulations on all your hard work :) 🎉

[@l1ve2art]

Too true, us librarians love ourselves some knitted cardigans and comfortable jumpers alright! 😁😏

[@dianefreeman7194]

​@@spacecowboi5466Yes, Library Science

[@aoimizu_02]

"keep politics out of knitting" these are the same people who are why I *can't* join a rochet or knitting group without making it political cause the second I walk in and say hey, I'm a guy please refer to me as such there's always gonna be someone who's gonna get all up in arms about me infringing on *their* rights.

[@Italianwatcher]

😂😂 because people need to know your gender in a knitting/crochet forum. That's your problem. People don't care, focused on the common denominator. It's the same as telling me your sexual preferences...why is it anyone's business?

[@AnnekeOosterink]

Yeah, for some people apolitical means cis, wyt, and straight people only. In the same vein, these people support the baker and the wedding cake thing, but as soon as another private business wants to ban/refuse them service it's discrimination. It's very "I voted for the "leopards eating people's faces-party" but I didn't think they'd eat MY face" and "rules for thee but not for me". It's why I join groups only if they explicitly ban all the -isms and -phobias in the rules. Otherwise they just accept all kinds of terrible things. Like the bar owner who kicks out every single neon@z! who comes by because if you let one in, they'll bring their friends, and then the other patrons will leave because they're n@z!s and now you have a n@z! bar. If they let terrible things just fly in their group only the terrible people who say and do those things will be left.

[@lkeke35]

Spaces are very different for people whose very existence has been made into a political issue. My identity as Black and a woman has been made a political issue by people who share neither of those traits, and I didn't get a say about it. The moment I show up in a space it becomes political for somebody in that space. You and I deserve to be comfortable in spaces just as much as they claim too.

[@cyrusthelizardking]

Yeah it's so easy for these people to say "let's keep politics out" when their entire life isn't broadcasted as a political debate. As a young queer trans man I can't ever escape it!! Especially in the UK currently 😅

[@mammoneymelon]

exactly! i can't "keep politics out of xyz" when my literal existence has been made political. it is extremely frustrating to have to choose between being a doormat or "making things political"

[@sharontabor7718]

All this drama is why I don't do any social media or forums for knitting. People get too passionate about things that should be about de-stressing rather than raising blood pressure in a high-pressure world.

[@chrysanthes8751]

Finding out about racist knitters sheds a new light onto the Stephen West controversy. Deleting the pattern really was his only choice.

[@justine8387]

Yeah, his original response would have been correct, if those awful people didn't run off with the whole thing. Racist (and other bigots) ruin everything. I would feel icky knowing those people were supporting me, I understand his disgust.

[@TheStitchWitchPodcast]

@@kellicoffman8440it may not make YOU actively racist but it does make you approving of HIS racist beliefs.

[@kellicoffman8440]

@@TheStitchWitchPodcast What raciest policy?

[@Butterflyyyxoxo]

​@@TheStitchWitchPodcastlol Trump isn't racist and doesn't have racist policies but Biden sure is racist. "If you don't vote for me you ain't black"

[@lordtette]

Knowing how knitting and other crafts was pushed on our (great)grandmothers and even mothers as a "womans" thing, it's not suprising it has conservative fanbase.

[@KristinMoran]

To clarify a point for those not familiar with Ravelry, when patterns are added to the site, it's either a PDF (available for free or for sale), or information about where you can find that pattern (website, book, magazine). So entering all the patterns is still a big job, but they weren't typing up every row's instructions. I used to love checking whenever I got a new crochet magazine to see if it was on Ravelry yet, to add it to my library. RIP Interweave Crochet.

[@kateinthegrass]

one time I used a pair of knitting needles as chopsticks and yet here I am LIVING for this hobby drama

[@TamarLitvot]

I know lots of people who used chopsticks as knitting needles but never the reverse!

[@charityzimmerman4529]

This might be my favorite KZbin comment of all time.

[@Kakkydidit]

I got out some needles and couldn't remember how to cast on. A few KZbin videos later, and here I am, still not knitting.

[@PeteJustPete]

I've been a Raveler since 2008 and never knew drama existed on the site. Not necessarily glad to know about it now, but I enjoy your videos and appreciate the research and time you put into them. I am so thankful for the Ravelry database itself. I love filtering for exactly what I'm looking for in a pattern and matching my stash to my patterns. I wish there was one like it for sewing patterns & fabric. I'm a bit of a pattern hoarder...

[@tomatotamale4546]

Yes I would love integration with sewing patterns!

[@KyMcAnnoudh]

Had no clue either. Try to avoid drama because have it in my home.

[@eileenwallis]

Thank you for the reminder not to engage with those with whom we disagree, not just because there's no need to go over to someone's page and spread hatred, but because any interaction (views, clicks, comments, thumbs down, etc.) is engagement, which is helpful to them (including potentially financially). I think it's easy to forget about that part.

[@marlenestewart7442]

And it's just rude. Why be that person?

[@Italianwatcher]

Everything is "hatred" to certain people. Personally, I will engage with people who disagree with me. One issue people are shallow and the problem in the world.

[@Italianwatcher]

​@@marlenestewart7442 it's rude to engage with people who disagree? 😂😂😂 I can pick you intolerant leftists out in every crowd! My mind isn't as shallow and weak as yours. You should get psychological help

[@Snowfoxie1]

⁠@@Italianwatcherbased on your comments on this video, your version of engaging is just calling LGTB+ people rude names.

[@spoopyvirgil4944]

@@Snowfoxie1 They also called people fascists because those people agreed with banning conservative discussions and such. (If they support conservatives, I don't think they realize that they're on the facism side..)

[@patchopossum9414]

The Olympics thing has come up in furry fandom spaces too. In the early 2000's, conventions usually had an event called "fursuit olympics." You get a bunch of fursuiters in a big room and have them play games with hula hoops and stuff. It's all in good fun, no prizes, no merch. At a certain point the panel was renamed to "fursuit games" because of the Olympics tight grip on their trademark.

[@skylarjohnson7779]

That is brilliant, I love it.

[@bean2046]

Did they get an apology or are knitters scarier than furries?

[@patchopossum9414]

@@bean2046 I wrote that comment before finishing that chapter and wow knitters were... passionate... about the issue. To be fair, they were showing support of the event. We were just poking at how hard it is to play musical chairs while you're basically wearing a big plush chair 😂 As far as I remember it wasn't a huge hubbub. The cons may have gotten a similar form letter, or just changed it after hearing that other cons were. Either way it's easy to change a panel name, especially if it's far enough before the event that none of the physical schedules or con books have been printed.

[@bean2046]

@@patchopossum9414 well, checks out with most knitters I know 😂 furries always sound like so much fun, they should add furry musical chairs to the actual ol*mpics

[@patchopossum9414]

@@bean2046 You should check out furry drama, it's wild. I really thought there was nothing like it, till I saw other fandom and hobby drama. It really shows that any group of people will inevitably start 💩

[@evamei9030]

Ravelry is one of the places that added to me walking away from online communities. There are bad eggs everywhere. I just stick to my local community now, and it's paid off already because we funded our new library with donations only, which is where our stitch club will be moving to next year. I don't care that I'm the only one under 50 in the group. I feel at home and accepted.

[@cal812]

You're right, I've seen similar toxic behavior in online LGBT+ communities too. I think that sites like Ravelry are great to connect with a wide variety of people, especially for those that live in isolated places or are disabled in some way. Online spaces have their niche but if and where possible, seeking in-person community can be really fulfilling, like in your case! It definitely prompts people to be more polite with their fellow humans when you have to see them face to face.

[@solidflyer286]

⁠@@cal812I’ve started going to knit groups organiser by community groups and they’re much nicer for the most part. I’m also the only one under 50 😂

[@georgeandrews1394]

And that works up until someone with a hankering for control over other people enters the group and starts making everyone's life miserable. Or until someone who doesn't fit the category of what the group collectively considers 'acceptable members' and 'people' joins. Assholes exist in real life too.

[@rebekajirsak]

tea ✅ crochet hook and WIP ✅ emma’s new video ✅ sounds like the perfect evening ngl

[@carmenbaby]

Literally same but with knitting needles!! I can get so much done watching these

[@MrCheshirealicat]

This is brilliant - thank you! Bonus info - the famous knitter in the Bob mask at Ravelry’s first Rhinebeck was Ysolda Teague. 😉❤️

[@rebeccainspired]

I remember the 2019 deplorable knitter drama. Part of why things "calmed down," is that Cassidy made it possible to block designers so the patterns wouldn't show up in searches or the the hot now lists that spring.

[@rachelhansen2417]

I’m kind of impressed that they have handled most of this decently. The first group had a creepy lynchy joke, and while other groups should also have been policed, they were definitely within their rights to shut it down. The Olympic committee is stupid, so that one was fine, and it makes sense that a community partly founded by a trans woman would be uncomfortable with any support for trump. I get why people are upset, but they are doing a good job in my humble opinion.

[@nina.robbs565]

same, everybody who freaked out about free speech seemed to have forgotten that private companies don't count, it only protects you from the government. I don't blame them, I'd do the same thing if I found pro-trump groups and patterns on my website.

[@TamarLitvot]

I agree. And of course the First Amendment's free speech clause is only relevant to government censorship not to a privately owned forum making such decisions. There are plenty of forums on the right that don't allow anyone to comment who disagree and that is their right also.

[@delusion5867]

@@TamarLitvot the ignorance of what the first amendment actually means annoys me so much, it protects you from CONGRESS and/or state actors, not Mr CEO in his high tower. Also, the supreme court as said that free speech is not absolute.

[@sarasynfox]

They did handle a lot of this really well. It's going to come up in the next one when things went horribly wrong. At this point, I'm still on the fence if I can trust them after the severe medical problems they caused their users and took way longer than reasonable to address. It's sad, but the damage has been done to a lot of users and some will never go back. Unfortunately, all the well handled stuff in the world doesn't make up for it.

[@rachelhansen2417]

@@sarasynfox now I’m intrigued for part 2! I hadn’t heard of this.

[@teagannam]

as a nonbinary leftist I would ABSOLUTELY knit and wear a “Non-Bidenary” sweater. that’s even better than priDEMONth

[@TamarLitvot]

It is funny but i wouldn't wear it because it could be misconstrued to mean what the originator meant it to mean.

[@thatcasualdragon2975]

excuse you, nothing will be better than priDEMONth and this is a hill I will die on (but we can knit/crochet together still)!

[@estherriley6879]

I’m a proud non-bidenary non-binary lol

[@noahwaybro]

​@notville_ i don't think that rlly matters, dude

[@fawn2911]

​@notville_begone transphobe

[@jessweaver5713]

I don’t know if you’ll cover the “ableist” row with the website redesign and people said they were having seizures etc. I was one of the people who was effected by migraines but I contacted revelry and beta tested accessibility features for them. Others, including one Manchester U.K. based yarn dyer, went nuclear. She was an absolute nightmare.

[@michaelabeijer675]

I literally fainted when when they switched, and suffered from vertigo for a full day with no clue why! It happened twice and it wasn’t until I read about it on instagram that it clicked for me. I still use Ravelry, but despite the changes they made and me figuring out that the dark mode works best for me, I still get dizzy when using Ravelry for more than 15-20 minutes.

[@DawnBurn]

This is actually the drama I was expecting/looking for.

[@shannonking6402]

I think this will absolutely come about in part 2, especially because Emma’s referenced this drama in other videos before

[@EcstaticTeaTime]

I do know about this topic (I missed most of the drama.) One of the designers I was following ended up making a post that she was leaving due to being affect by the website redesign. I want to see the numbers and the lack of understanding from Ravelry's team.

[@stinabina]

What I recall isn't that people went nuclear over the redesign but the fact that Cassidy doubled down on not caring about the accessibility aspect and the harm the new site caused users. It's been a while, though, so I'm hoping to hear more about it in the next vid!

[@phebz4758]

I joined Ravelry in 2012, when I was still living in Germany and was really excited to find a website that offered so many patterns in one place. I found many patterns, both free and paid, that kept me more than busy and found a few designers I absolutely loved and enjoyed supporting. Then, a few years into it, more and more people started using it as a political battleground and activist outlet. I knit and crochet to get away from that sort of drama. I tried tuning the "noise" out for a few years, but the environment became too toxic, so I took a long break from the site and found patterns elsewhere.

[@karenkoziol5353]

I understand where you're coming from. I didn't look for patterns elsewhere because I support Ravelry's views, but I recognize that it's a personal choice. Ravelry, as a business, can decide what to post on its platform, and we as users can decide if it still works for us. If the site ever goes in a direction I don't want to go, I'll make the decision to stop using it too.

[@hearthyager8682]

"conservatives are being silenced" damn i wish it worked

[@abbyelectric]

absolutely love this line

[@KittyKraftStudio]

Maybe it's because I never really got into the forums, but I don't really understand how people felt so "attacked" by content on a website about yarn and patterns that they had to "bunker down," it seems so an absurd.

[@PamsPrettyPlants]

Those whack jobs would do whole missions trying to brigade other groups, they’d flag threads and complain in groups they didn’t belong to, they’d go after Cassidy and Jess in the For The Love of Ravelry group, they never just stayed in their own group. No one should feel bad for them they were nightmares in 2007-2008 and basically ran me out of moderating because I was exhausted. 😅 I was long gone by the time of the ban but all I thought was “finally”.

[@KittyKraftStudio]

@@PamsPrettyPlants I kind of assumed they were probably feeling "attacked" because they couldn't just act like decent humans. People create a hostile environment and then try to victimize themselves.

[@Ashbrash1998]

Especially when another commenter mentions that they were also trolling other people too and made plans.

[@draconicfeline6177]

Very conservative of them. They always bring bullcrap on themselves then blame everyone.@@KittyKraftStudio

[@wyattwarner2457]

I feel like a lot of exclusionary and exterminationist rhetoric is predicated on fear that any safety or comfort a privileged group feels is tenuous and only by horrific, bigoted force is it barely maintained. I think it goes hand in hand with how marginalized groups get rhetorically positioned as dangerous. A lot of people seem genuinely afraid bodily harm will befall their families if historically excluded people are given rights. I'm glad Ravelry seems to have taken this stuff seriously!

[@Kittie9]

i’m not civil debating my right to exist as a queer, trans, jewish, and more person OR my friends and fellow community members right to exist as well

[@ilz_y]

As a linguist I would never have expected a discourse analysis study in a knitting drama video 😂

[@tianna1116]

I would never have expected a video about knitting drama but here we are

[@sherlock9882]

Nothing hurts more than someone saying they were “deraveled” instead of “unraveled”.

[@chesspiece4257]

Patrick’s “my political philosophies are based on my own life experiences, not based on my gender, race, or sexual orientation” is so annoying like…. does he think that his identities haven’t affected his life experiences??? was he raised to cook dinner and bear children??? has he experienced the horrors of women’s pockets??? it just feels so blind (ლ‸－ ) (for reference: 1:16:00)

[@j1ung996]

Conservatives love to act like politics have NOTHING to do with them as people... hence why they always whine about "why can't ppl with different opinions get along" when minorities dont wanna be chummy w/ someone who supports our disenfranchisement💀

[@snapperalltheway7036]

I was literally losing my mind over this like WHAT DO U MEAN UR LIFE EXPERIENCES ARE NOT BASED ON ALL THAT?

[@karenkoziol5353]

Gregory Patrick let me know that he has the power to censure replies on his blog (and he does) -so I responded by unsubscribing. He doesn’t get my clicks anymore. And yeah, it's weird that he thinks his identities haven't shaped his life experiences.

[@BiggerinRealLife]

I participated in the first Ravlympics. It was so fun! I completed….zero projects. 😂 But still had a blast.

[@eliontheinternet3298]

I am a programmer, and I really enjoy your channel. Thanks for including the background info about Cassidy!

[@CarolinePralin89]

Do you mind translating the background info? 🥲

[@marinarozas4315]

me too. i loved to hear they use redis and MySQL. i was wondering for a while about their stack and i thought elastic search was involved. also, i am a huge ruby enthusiastic, i got really excited from knowing ravelry is written in ruby, to the point of being slightly judged by husband because of how i reacted to it lol

[@eliontheinternet3298]

​@@CarolinePralin89 it was the languages she wrote in. Basically when you're programming, there's different "languages" you can use depending on what you're trying to do. "Microsoft stuff" was pretty vague, so I can't say much about that. But Rust is a pretty low-level language (meaning on the spectrum from direct 0s and 1s, to English, it's closer to the 0's and 1's than most other languages). If I were to stereotype, people that use Rust are very hardcore and love to optimize things.

[@CarolinePralin89]

@@eliontheinternet3298 cool, thanx! So judging from the info in the video Cassidy could be a pretty hardcore coder? I’ve only dabbled in matlab due to civil engineering so I don’t know enough to be prejudiced about other languages 😅

[@eliontheinternet3298]

@@CarolinePralin89 oh absolutely. The Rust thing is more of a stereotype, but the fact that she practically built this website by herself, with help from maybe a couple of people, and it's stood not just the test of time but the INSANE growth that they had? She must be very talented.

[@twistknit1]

This video is a walk down memory lane for me. I'm 51 now and started crocheting some as a young boy and more as a teenager. I learned to knit when I was 24. The blogs were a huge part of my knitting lessons. I followed Yarn Harlot, Let's knit2gether, The Panopticon, Brooklyn Tweed. I adore Knitty and Ravelry. (Gregory Patrick-not so much.) I love fiber festivals and have been to Rhinebeck numerous times. I have met so many of the fiber "stars" at these events. Fruity knitting is great and I was so sad for Andrea when Andrew passed. I thought I knew most of the Ravelry drama. I still don't understand the whole issue with the new site design so I can't wait for the next video!

[@Sarah-with-an-H]

I remember before Ravelry really took off Brooklyn tweed regularly participated in a forum I was on before Facebook really took off.

[@lottakiuru-ribar9378]

What a great summary of Ravelry history! Especially considering that you were too young to have witnessed most of it and had to research all of that. I was a knit blogger in the mid 2000s, maybe from about 2005 to 2010 and was an early-ish adopter of Ravelry. The first controversy of Ravelry was actually it’s very existence and how it was accused of destroying knitting blogs. a lot of bloggers stopped writing their blogs, and moved onto ravelry to share their projects. to some extent, I agree that ravelry was the demise of knit blogging, but on the other hand, it was a huge improvement, providing a centralized place to connect knitters and resources. It might be hard to imagine how difficult it was to find patterns in anything other than printed magazines only 20 years ago. The knitting blogs were only connected to each other by links posted on the blog to the blogger’s favorite blogs. The Clapotis was an example of a pattern that went viral before there was a forum for things to go viral in.

[@jauncourt]

Well, there *was* a forum, but it was the old Knittyboard, which is gone now. IIRC, there was a whole dedicated thread on there in the patterns subforum for the Clapotis.

[@kaylynxup]

honestly, the whole "i remember when you could just disagree with people and still get along!" attitude is in willful ignorance of what those "disagreements" really mean. sort of like my parents saying that of COURSE they don't have a problem with my being queer... followed in the next breath by full support of a man who has openly declared he believes people like me should not exist in his great country. it's a little hollow.

[@hex.adecimal]

as a computer science student who watches these videos for background noise, the note on Cassidy’s programming background WAS pretty cool :) edit: i’m from MD too! didn’t know about the festival though, fascinating stuff

[@TamarLitvot]

It's huge. And crowded. I've only missed one or two since I first started going.

[@DawnBurn]

Maryland Sheep & Wool is great fun. If you can get to Howard County it is worth a trip.

[@junniperjess1639]

I went to the festival for the first time this year! It was huge and overwhelming so I didn't leave with any yarn but that's okay. I will know what to expect next year when I inevitably will go again. I knew about it before but have only been into fiber arts for about 2 and a half years now. I am from HoCo 😊

[@bondcourttv]

I don’t even know how to sew with a single thread, let alone knit, but I’m definitely going to watch this entire video in one sitting.

[@RachelJennetti]

It’s definitely worth learning! It’s easier than you think 😊

[@Dziabum]

Crochet is the easiest to just grab and go, give it a try! 💖 it’s so fun!

[@alderblanco2362]

You can also crochet using your fingers! It will be super loose but making chains is super fast and easy and fun to play with. I think you can also knit with your fingers? But I don't know how to knit so someone else would need to confirm that haha

[@RachelJennetti]

@@alderblanco2362 i actually just made a blanket like this in about 3 hrs!! It’s such a good craft for holiday gifts!

[@TamarLitvot]

I'm horrible at sewing (truly awful) but I weave, spin yarn, knit and crochet. Don't let your lack of sewing skill prevent you from trying out some other textile hobby.

[@senuckolls]

It’s so funny to hear someone recap things that at the time everyone in the online knitting community just knew. It’s a fun flashback to a different time in my life

[@stinabina]

Finally I'm old enough to say "ooh! I was there when that happened!"

[@amos616]

I still remember trying to apply for the beta and anxiously waiting to be allowed in. For someone who did have a few knitting friends it was amazing to see how many more knitters there were out there and to see all the creative projects people working and gain so much inspiration and resources. I can’t tell you how many times I wish there was one with even a portion of the functionality for garment sewists.

[@camipco]

On The Bunker section, as someone on the left, the willingness of people on the left at this time to make horrifically sexist comments / jokes about Sarah Palin was disgusting. I mean, she's a terrible politician, but the attacks on her as a woman were unacceptable, including the porn movie made with someone playing her and how so many on the left laughed about it.

[@oliverrose7796]

I'm a passive ravelry user who basically just uses it to search for free patterns because forums and me don't get along in terms of UE, so I missed most of the controversies on the site. I do remember as a queer knitter seeing the addition of the Pride flag on the front page made me feel safer in the community, and glad to continue to use the site. I know they've had a lot of issues with accessibility, which I'm sure you'll get into in the next video, but I'm glad that this site started for the love of knitting and run by a bunch of queer people is still around and has the capacity to grow and get better. They should hire some more people though lol. I'm sure they don't have a lot of spare funds, but that has to be a lot of responsibility on each of those people...

[@TamarLitvot]

I was surprised when Emma seemed to be saying they made a lot of money off advertising (or was it patterns?). I was thinking that while the total she mentioned seemed big, it supports all of them plus all the equipment and other expenses. They could have made themselves very wealthy and seem to have chosen instead to run a forum that can be enjoyed by anyone with access to the internet.

[@tomato68evony41]

Dont think they need to hire more people, but those that are "hired" should work for the buck. Think their earning is really hurting now, and your can see them "working" now .... Look at their front page, changing every 2 - 3 weeks since September. In the past, you will be lucky to see it change in 3 months. Ravelry is not good at listening to need of users

[@l.1586]

Never heard of this site but, I am invested. Very hyped for part 2. I also don't know what it is about bigots who can't stand being called bigots and, who cry about free speech all the time without even grasping what that term means. "How dare you infringe upon my right to say black people and trans people don't deserve basic human decency and, call me a bigot for expressing bigoted views!1!1!"

[@stonecrestquilt]

The 2020 era was a tiny piece of time where many Americans lost their minds. I tuned most of it, deep diving into knitting, crochet, quilting, and watercolor painting instead. Ravelry is a most amazing yarn-y website!! Millions of little pieces of inspiration all over the place!!

[@shakazed]

When you snap out of it and realize you've been watching two hours of yarn-drama....and loved it!

[@LizzieBelina]

The fact that I don't even knit, I barely can crochet, and I barely remember Ravelry...has not stopped me from watching this entire video and waiting not-so-patiently for more. I...have a problem.

[@ayajade6683]

Can you imagine getting jail time because security cameras caught you knitting at a riot

[@Beelzebubby91]

Iconic

[@InfinitelyAnon]

Gotta love humans, imagine an archaeologist finding Ashan's giant sock and asking why did he make this?? and the answer is, he simply had to

[@M123Xoxo]

Or it's a religious offering to the gods

[@InfinitelyAnon]

@@M123Xoxo how could I forget about the foot gods

[@alliebean3235]

hobby drama is truly insane, i love it

[@NocturnalTyphlosion]

its always so funny to hear people be like "yeah im a social conservative and i dont care what you say!" then turn around and be like "i cant believe they called me bigoted :(((("

[@MyChannel773]

conservatives: private businesses must be allowed to deny goods and services based on personal beliefs conservatives when a private business denies them goods and services based on personal beliefs: 😱

[@kimchristiansen1248]

Rational people when people banning anything and try to call themselves "inclusive"

[@ccrs776]

There is a difference from saying I won't promote your ideas with products I make, verses you can't use my product at all because of your beliefs.

[@stinabina]

​@@ccrs776actually, there isn't

[@sandpiperr]

@@ccrs776 Refusing to make a cake for a gay wedding is one and the same! You are literally saying "you can't use my product because of your beliefs"

[@ccrs776]

@@sandpiperr I disagree, they are not saying don't buy our products. They are just saying that they won't put a message against their beliefs.

[@xCr00k3Dx]

On the technical design of the site, basically they have computers designed for moving data (servers) they own in a big warehouse of computers (datacenter) to run the site. They use Amazon's datacenters (S3) to store images, pdfs, etc (blob/binary file storage) and a SQL (pronounced Sequel) database to store (save files to a hard drive) any text, numeric, or other generic information in a structured way. They use a second database (Redis) that doesn't have to read from the disk (in-memory storage) to store information that is consistent accessed so that the site runs quicker for everyone. In their group of computers (commonly known as a cluster), they're using software (Xen) to run virtualized operating systems (think Parallels Desktop for Mac, which let's you run Windows inside of MacOS) presumably for different services (programs with a specific task, such as logging in a user), and make the most of their resources.

[@theJmanStriketh]

As a fellow SW dev, this is accurate. There are price/resiliency(downtime for broken computers)/scalability (number of active users, etc.) tradeoffs to running in the cloud (AWS) Vs. on their own server hardware and it seems like they've hit a balance that works for Ravelry. I am a little concerned that there's only 1 dev servicing 10MM users. It's obviously possible, but can lead to 1) slow feature growth 2) developer burnout 3) loss of information/service in emergencies. It doesn't sound like features are an issue, but I would be concerned about burnout and staff stability. Losing a main developer due to health issues or burnout can totally destroy a site. If Ravelry was asking for my advice (they're not), I would tell them to be honest with the community and scale income (or seek grants, etc.) to support at least one more full-time developer and another part-time or full-time dev. You never know when tragedy might strike (and hopefully it won't), but a cornerstone of a community like this should probably have some more coverage.

[@sfdntk]

>(pronounced Sequel) Oof, you just started something and you don't even realise it

[@theJmanStriketh]

@@sfdntk 😂 techies matching the drama level of crafters? *Shock* I normally hear "S-Q-L" or "Sequel". I find "Squeal" funny but don't use it in conversation.

[@sfdntk]

@@theJmanStriketh The "S-Q-L" versus "sequel" debate is one of the most bitter and divisive feuds in all of techdom, second only to tabs versus spaces. Express an opinion on either at your absolute peril. I've seen grown men reduced to small piles of ash for less.

[@kathylovesmk]

​@@sfdntkI still want to know if "gif" is pronounced jiff or not.

[@crochetmezaddy]

I really just cant get past the fact that ravelry only has 4 employees - like WHAT

[@ladynuyorican]

So I've been apart of ravelry since 2010 and literally have thousands of patterns on there both free and paid. That being said, I always saw myself as a more casual user because I never got involved in the forums, but when that Trump ban hit I saw all over FB, Twitter, IG and all I could do was shake my head. The trash took itself out after that, because especially where I lived at the time being aligned with Trump wasn't about politics anymore. Certain groups just felt more comfortable saying the stuff that they used to say behind closed doors out loud which made for a lot of unsafe spaces. Ugly stuff aside I still love the site, I know it had it's accessibility issues (which I'm sure you're going to cover in the next video) but it's hard to find another site with the same search capabilities as Ravelry does. While I'm on a lot of the other sites I still find myself falling back on Ravelry for that alone.

[@Ashbrash1998]

Only other one I use is maybe Etsy but its not the same

[@oscollective]

"Triple threat conservative" Hearing that term after 5 years of being away from my ultra-conservative family was like being run over by a truck. Holy shit that brought back memories geez

[@TanyaHolst]

programmer here: just to explain what you told us. things like java, ruby etc are just which programming languages they have learned to use. in programming we use different languages to communicate with the computer (think like regular human languages) and it is valuable to programmers to know how many and which languages we each master to know how about skill level and so forth :3

[@KristinMoran]

As a crocheter who used to be really active on Rav (I still have my account, but I'm no longer active in the forums) , i hated that it was usually called a knitting site. Just as i hate when yarn sites/shops are called knitting shops. I've been to a couple that specifically don't sell any crochet tools/patterns, but most sell both. There's a group on Rav called the "Crochet Liberation Front" where people could vent about the anti- crochet snobbery they encountered online or in real life, and usually, it is a thing. It was not helped by the Yarn Harlot making hyperbolic comments in her writing about how much yarn crochet uses vs knitting, and her readers would quote it back as gospel. At one point the CLF had a list of crochet friendly businesses and i think there were certificates for the stores as well.

[@Cyclone-wolf]

I love longform drama videos like this. I know they don't tend to do as well as shorter videos so I really appreciate the effort that goes into these. Can't wait for part 2, I'm invested lol

[@dieSterbendeGiraffe]

I wish there was a site like ravelry that didn't give people migraines or seizures, but there really isn't right now. I love that it's free, that there is no targeted advertising, and just the amount of patterns! Very interesting video!

[@TamarLitvot]

What about the site causes migraines or seizures? I had a seizure disorder but never saw any strobing or anything like that on Ravelry.

[@adbreon]

@@TamarLitvot The redesign was extremely controversial. It does not have any strobing but did have an animated splash page. The issue is a small number of users experiencing photosensitive vertigo. The site does actually meet most accessibility standards but something about the drop shadows or font change seems to provoke issues. The redesign was both extensive and expensive and partly to make the site more mobile friendly (though it is still not exactly what I would call mobile optimized). The issue is largely overstated (the number of affected users has always been reportedly small) but because it occurred shortly after the Trump banning and Cassidy was particularly defensive of the changes (they could not be rolled back as they included some infrastructure changes as well) many took it as an opportunity to air their grievances with Ravelry as a whole. There is some irony that one of the changes made to the site, which allows it to support motion reduction settings in browsers would actually address the issue, but many users did not care for the solution.

[@dieSterbendeGiraffe]

@@TamarLitvot I bet it will come up in the second part to this video. If I understand it correctly, it's something about the contrast when scrolling. I personally don't experience any problems (even though I have migraines).

[@kathleengerwien845]

Yet Ravelry has not made the changes necessary to not give users migraines and seizures… why?

[@adbreon]

@@kathleengerwien845 there isn’t a change that will help all users. Photosensitive vertigo is largely idiopathic so any changes are as likely to cause an issue for other users as they are to fix the issue for the existing users. The best option is for users to fix it themselves by using dark mode and or the motion settings on their browser.

[@jauncourt]

There's a big missing background piece and that's the old Knittyboard (a messagboard for readers of Knitty that was very active until everyone went to Ravelry). There was SO MUCH discussion around the beginnings of Ravelry that happened there.

[@DrCaseyScraper]

I was so active on the Knittyboard and was sad when everyone left. I never got into the forums on Ravelry. Loved the other perks though… and apparently missed a lot of this drama

[@emmaplaysgreen2849]

There was also the KnitList!

[@Mastersilvershadow]

I love how the "conservative ban" was them just being like 'hey you can be a conservative we won't judge that just no active hate speech or supporting hate speech makers and the conservatives immediately go "they're treating us like pariah's, what about inclusion 😭" 🤣🤣🤣

[@hysteric-and-hysterical]

It upsets me that ravelry doesn’t include all the fiber arts. So many people could learn about crafts they would probably enjoy, but it’s set up where you can only find out about other crafts if you already know what to search for.

[@ursulanicsuibhne4972]

I think they'd need more staff. But it would be great.

[@Treegona]

Honestly I would LOVE if I could find sewing patterns or embroidery patterns on Ravelry, because looking for stuff like that was part of how I learned how to knit and crochet, and I think it'd really lower the bar-of-entry to these crafts for me.

[@Iggystar71]

What other fiber arts would you like added? They discussed this many times on Ravelry, people have asked for quilting, sewing, macrame to be added. They never had the bandwidth to expand and wished there were those in other fiber arts would get together to start their own site.

[@FrenkTheJoy]

I mean it kind of makes sense to me. You unravel yarn, but you don't unravel quilting fabric. So the name wouldn't make as much sense. I'm also not sure anyone even goes on there to learn about crafts, they're just there to make or find patterns for the crafts they already do.

[@Iggystar71]

@@FrenkTheJoy I agree, at its core Ravelry is a database. I’m not even sure how this would be accomplished. Knitting/crocheting is much easier to categorize, as are patterns. My main use of Ravelry these days is to see which yarn works with a pattern and get ideas based on finished projects. How would that work with fabric? The nature of needlework, felting, etc. not a good fit IMO. But I like that there are certain groups on Ravelry dedicated to those crafts and more. However, the groups are not as active as they used to be.

[@spacecowboi5466]

i love the quiz you put in at the end, please do that more often! it’s a great way to close off this type of video and im surprised more creators don’t do it. thank you for all your hard work, i find your channel very relaxing to listen to.

[@weavingrivers]

This was great. I joined Ravelry in June 2007 (yes I paused to go check) and I only knew about maybe half of this. I always see people mention drama vaguely, but never get my full curiosity satisfied. Thank you so much for getting into the details I’ve always wanted! Looking forward to part 2 ❤

[@klucky5990]

I remember the Olympics scandal in real time. I didn’t partake in the activity or in the thread but it spread to other threads that I did follow and I thought it was so ridiculous at the time and still. How silly. A bunch of crafty people want to practice their craft while enjoying the Olympics? HELL NO, we must shut that down 😂

[@MxAmericanPi]

I will never stop being annoyed about people more offended about being called a bigot than actual bigotry

[@pearlredmoonartist6430]

a "bigot" is a word to describe somebody who has an opinion you disagree with. "Actual bigotry" is a subjective and constructed thing, not real like having brown or blue eyes.

[@lexiright5609]

@@pearlredmoonartist6430 The word "bigot" is used to label those who hold racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic etc views, its not just a "difference of opinion". Bigots (very commonly right winged idiots) will argue that certain groups of people don't deserve human rights or respect and actively try to remove those rights. its not just about not agreeing with their opinion, its about how their "opinion" is rooted in mis and disinformation, hatred and has very bad real world consequences such as innocent groups of people loosing their rights, access to safety, acess to healthcare etc.

[@pearlredmoonartist6430]

@@lexiright5609 so you're a not hateful person (a real apple pie sweetie, to be sure) who doesnt know me from a bar of soap but feels self righteous enough to inform me I'm a right wing idiot, racist, sexist, bigoted, homophobic and transphobic. Please inform me exactly what "human right" it is that you claim I'm trying to take away from whomever? What is it you say these "groups" are "innocent" of? I didn't suggest they are guilty of anything. You obviously believe not everybody deserves equal respect, having made it clear, from the insults you decided I deserved, that I am one of those people. I strongly doubt you have sufficient self reflection to understand what a hypocrite that makes you. Have you left home much lately? Fortunately for me I've left home quite a bit and that included 5 trips to Amerika, paid for by people who wanted to learn stuff from me. I couldn't help but notice the amerikan education system is pretty shit and your obvious inability to think critically seems to imply you are a victim of it.

[@cryptic_sunflower]

When really wholesome things just dissolve into madness and wrong doings. It’s really sad when this happens

[@TamarLitvot]

If you mean Ravelry, it's very wholesome. I never see anything "pornographic" or NSFW or bad for children in the forums I'm in. It's all straightforward fiber-related stuff or, on the more personal forum there, photos of wildlife and nature and reports of vacations, etc.

[@ReneeChristopher]

​@@TamarLitvotSame.

[@loverlyredhead]

​@@TamarLitvotI mean, there's some fairly large groups that most people would say are NSFW or at least on the edge and they actually have a checkbox for mature patterns. Ravelry is very large so there's spaces for most everyone.

[@TamarLitvot]

@@loverlyredhead Of course -- I'm a member (though infrequent visitor) of one of those groups. But if you're just looking at the groups that are for knitting (or in my case weaving), they are what they say they are.

[@ccbb8115]

as a super gay jewish knitter, i have issues with _much of this_ but not really with the "god is love" hat. it has a perfectly positive message, and it doesn't mention queer communities aside from its use of rainbow-colored yarn (which like... is also not a bad thing, it's literally just colors). it doesn't say "don't love another man unless that man is god". its messaging is not inherently antithetical to lgbtq+ pride, and you can hold love for any god while still being queer and openly part of this community. HOWEVER. i do see where people could get that from. considering it was posted during pride month by an outspoken conservative and the message on it of "god is love" could be interpreted as being a direct alteration of the phrase "love is love" (similar to how "black lives matter" was sort of 'parodied' by conservatives with phrases like "blue lives matter" or "all lives matter"), i definitely see how someone might see that and think it's supposed to insult the lgbtq+ community. with all of that context considered, it does look bad. if i saw it on ravelry while doing my daily scrolling, though, i would think absolutely nothing of it. i think most christians, especially christian _knitters,_ would see that and go "oh yeah! i love god, god is love! that's a cute hat." not "oh yeah, F those gay people! love isn't love, GOD is love!!" because of that, idk what its intentions really were, and i'm not sure it needed to be wiped off of ravelry's platform.

[@Singinghomealone]

as a queer person myself, if i saw that out of context it would completely innocuous to me and wouldn’t seem to be lgbt+ related at all, considering the fact that she was outspokenly homophobic/transphobic i can definitely see why the moderators would have an issue with it and would want to remove it from their library. continuing your hypothetical of non-bigoted christians liking the pattern, i feel like they would make the toboggan cap and be devastated when they inevitably realized they were wearing a hat that was likely communicating bigotry, and ravelry didn’t want to deal with the potential blowout of that. long story short, i mostly agree with you, but i think they had a valid reason to ban that pattern as well.

[@catie5939]

I was just a baby knitter in my very early twenties when Ravelry came out. I remember getting on the wait-list and it felt like it was taking FOREVER. Everybody was so excited. The knitting blog community was a neat place back then. Obviously things have gotten.. more complicated since then. Hah. Still, it's really cool hearing you tell the whole entire story. Love your channel.

[@FrisbeeGirl]

Your storytelling skills and ability to exemplify authentic compassion are truly next level. Thank you! So happy I found your channel; I love the richness of the dramas of niche creatives!

[@goldstarsforall]

Ravelry has always given me AO3 vibes, very much community-led and very much badly designed/underfunded for the amount of people using it. Both have a really good search system but it is very dependent on the userbase. It has been a while since I have used ravelry but the only difference I can think of is that Ravelry is a private business and AO3 is a charity... but yes, I'm glad they both have drama. At least Ravelry doesn't have the censorship argument every year tho... I will also say, the Olympics are UBER protective of their IP. I have been part of multiple conversations about SCOUT CAMPS, which have been forced to rebrand because their Olympics themed. I know community projects that got shut down because of they 'colour and sport' similarities... 2012 had a pub in the UK rebrand because it was called 'The Olympics'... Theres a sport themed camp I'm going to next year... It is not officially the Olympic-themed Rally because we're a bunch of scouts that don't want to get sued but its a four year thing... its so bad how ontop the Olympics are. At least most companies go 'well we cant let you but we're not going to pursue it' (the BSA have some really cool unofficial Gaming/Disney themed badges) but the Olympics WILL pursue.

[@itslikehistory]

The amount of work that you put into this, researching, scripting, filming, editing, is absolutely mind-blowing. Love love love your channel!!!

[@itslikehistory]

the way I yelled the answers at my computer for the quiz, pls do more quiz endings, i am obsessed

[@TAKAT0NIC]

I won’t lie, by the time we got to the quiz I had completely forgotten it was gonna happen because of how much happens in this video but I managed to get a solid 10 points! Also really enjoyed the editing on this video, I’d noticed that you had improved the past couple of videos but it really stood out in this one, great work! :D

[@cristinaj2504]

I love your videos, it feels like time travelling. It’s like having my kids explain music of the 90s to me. ‘Yes I know, I was there!!’ 😂😂😂 I took a few years off knitting when my kids were born and I missed the drama that this video leads to. But I was on the initial wait list, remember when J and C added a third employee, and was so happy to explain to my fellow librarians-in-training about this site which had 2 million users and was a really good database because they hired librarians! Looking forward to part 2

[@robingow7276]

Ok I only ever looked on ravelry for patterns. I cannot fathom why anyone would talk about politics on knitting site. Can’t we just have a spot where we just enjoy the art of knitting and leave the rest of the crap behind

[@jandroid1962]

Yes we can. I just want to knit. I recently discovered that the Knitting Companion has some of the most amazing patterns. I wish I could knit full time. I don't know how content creators on KZbin have time to knit or crochet. It takes me two days to knit one sock.

[@SunnyBurnsAll]

I'll need the kids to be at school, my knitting project in hand and a cup of tea before I listen to this video. I loved the last "Ravelry and the wool being pulled over everyone's eyes by the yarn seller" story time.

[@rmaliase]

I've been on Rav since the beta days in 2007 and lived through all this drama in real time, but you've dug up lots of details that I never knew (or completely forgot!) Great content, looking forward to part 2.

[@existential_horror5045]

i know most people who watch these videos probably knit or crochet, but i'm checking in to say this is great cross stitching background noise too

[@OleanderRainbow]

Cross stitch is also valid as a fiber art. My source is I cross stitch and sometimes I crochet with embroidery thread.

[@OleanderRainbow]

@@nony_mation Knitting is great.

[@Narangarath]

I did not know I needed a 1.5h long video about crafting drama in my life, but it got me through the rest of my sock and earned my sub. Fun fact, I've had an account on Ravelry since... Wow, 2011?! ...but I had no idea any of this went down. I think I liked it better under my rock. 😂

[@classoutthaass]

I've also been on ravelry since 2010 or 2011, and never once was I ever aware of any of this 😂 I just use it to keep track of my projects and find patterns, who knew there was so much drama beyond that 🤣

[@kimberlyteneyck9220]

Same. I don’t care what anybody else thinks about what I think. I just want to knit. Is that uninformed? Willfully ignorant? That’s ok. Drama is a choice. No thanks.

[@aroseprince]

It's insane to think that this website about knitting has more users than there are citizens in the actual country that I live in. El Salvador

[@leonora4369]

Free speech this, free speech that, ravelry is a private company, you're free to say what you want but you are not free from consequence

[@DillyDahlia]

True but if someone then turns around and claims they are so “inclusive” and “tolerant” when clearly those claims don’t include other political views, that makes them a hypocrite. That’s my problem with the Rav powers that be. There is only one narrative allowed.

[@bigawesomewatermelon9511]

​@@DillyDahliaIt's not intolerant to disallow intolerance. It's not intolerant to silence someone actively wishing harm against you.

[@DillyDahlia]

@@bigawesomewatermelon9511 And how EXACTLY are they wishing harm against you? Stop making things up.

[@bigawesomewatermelon9511]

@@DillyDahlia Supporting legislation that threatens people's lives isn't a joke. You can be friends with people who disagree with you. You cannot be friends with people who disagree with whether or not you deserve to live.

[@DillyDahlia]

@@bigawesomewatermelon9511 You didn’t answer my question at all. That’s the problem with you leftists, you literally make shit up to fit your twisted narrative.