A Defense of Infant Baptism (Part 1/4): Why So Many Evangelicals Don't Understand Infant Baptism

[@wfmcardle5789]

Thanks for the video. Culture is a significant factor. It really does impact and perhaps shape our understanding of Scripture. I liked the contrast between solo and sola. Helpful analysis. Looking forward to your next episode.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

Thanks for watching. I'll try and get the next one up in few days.

[@sarahd5341]

I was raised baptist and am working through this topic and definitely leaning towards the paedobaptist position. I’ve been reading and learning for over a year now. Appreciate this series. We need to properly understand the views (on secondary/tertiary issues) of our brothers and sisters even if we don’t land there.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

Well said. I think it is important, but it is not an essential.

[@brucehollingworth3680]

Thanks for the video. I recently stepped out of the Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada that I grew up in. Attended a year of Bible College that was Also P.A.O.C. back in 1989. I'm now 52, my theology has deepened, and changed, and I lost connection with the Charismatic scene. I've gained much wisdom from listening to reformed ministers. I have always been ok with praying for our babies and dedicating them to our Lord. I have not been able to connect a declaration of faith leading to baptism in front of the church as something a parent can choose for their child. My dilemma. - I have been on the hunt for a good reformed church after the turmoil of leaving my Pentecostal family. I attended a Baptist reform for a few months and found that it was "ok" even though they sang some songs developed by charismatic movements I was trying to steer away from. One Sunday I was bothered by the typical "unity" message I grew up with. There are things I just can't unite with. A few Sundays later the pastor spoke on how we should be treating each other better to which he used the whole "Alistair Begg" conflict as an example. This pastor defended Alistair and confessed from the pulpit that he also counselled many people to go to gay weddings. THAT IS one of those things I can not unite with or call a gray area. Anyway, I'll try to shorten this up. I found another reformed church that is Presbyterian but not tied to the very progressive/liberal Canadian Presbyterian denomination. They hand out the hymnals when you walk in and there's no "Hillsong", or "Bethel" music. I was saying to myself, this is a safe church. I could picture myself landing here and not being challenged to accept things that our Holy Yahweh would not approve of. My only issue - is "Infant baptism". This would not make me lose sleep at night to any degree like a church pastor leading his flock to gay weddings. I just don't know if it could become a roadblock if my family were brought into the picture and we didn't adhere to this part of the "program". ? If you've read this far and have any good insight, it would be much appreciated. This is one of the only uncompromising reformed churches anywhere close to my community. It's starting to feel lonely as someone who doesn't want to casual down and make friends with the world.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

I would discuss your hang-up with the pastor and/or elders. Most reformed baptist churches I know understand the disagreement and carry a level of respect for those of the other position. They might bluntly disagree, but most would not break fellowship over it and have members on both sides of the isle (so to speak)

[@brucehollingworth3680]

Thanks for taking the time to reply and put some thought into this. Planning on asking some questions this Sunday. 👍🏻

[@thechorusinthechaos]

@@brucehollingworth3680 Let us know how it goes! Praying its a gracious and well-received discussion

[@jeffreybomba]

I love how everyone leans on Iranius as the fist person to put this practice on paper. In reality they point to his quote or a passage used to support infant baptism, but he makes no mention of infant baptism there. He does specifically mention this practice and when he does he asks why anyone allows it..

[@bigtobacco1098]

Why ??

[@e.azcoitia5198]

Great video brother!

[@thechorusinthechaos]

Appreciate it!

[@Saints_ravenfortheRainbow]

I was baptized and raised Roman catholic. I found a freewill baptist church around 16 that I loved. I had two very different ideology. My own daughter was baptized at 5 yrs old. That difference showed in the her age being not an infant but also not at 11yrs old. She's old enough to be forced to learn about santa then she should know saint Nicholas and the difference and get immersed into the judeo christian reality. She also had nightmares. Since about 3 yrs old. She prays every night. She is taught to call Jesus when scared. I think 5 yrs old worked well. I definitely understand and encourage infant baptism and not to entertain the Santa traditions and lies, just teach them truth. I was baptized as an infant and i still saw hatman at 5 yrs old and had my mind invaded. I wasn't taught to call Jesus when scared Was encouraged to pray. Wasn't believed or helped, was actually made to feel terrified about ghosts when I couldn't go to sleepovers in elementary school.

[@TrinityTruth05]

Thanks for this bro!!!

[@StanDieckmann-xh8ti]

The Bible says that faith comes by hearing. A Lutheran “theorizes” that a baby can hear. They theorize that when households were brought to faith, there had to be infants in the house. If, and I do say if, a baby were supposed to be baptized it would be clear in scripture. If baptism saves, God would make very clear that way of salvation. He wouldn’t leave us guessing about the biggest thing in the Bible.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

I am in no way arguing that baptism saves.

[@StanDieckmann-xh8ti]

@@thechorusinthechaos I understand that you feel there is a covenantal implication, but God doesn't work in multiple ways. There is no covenant baptism going on at a Baptist church and still people come to Christ or Christ saves them. It is fine to be on an island but you need to be able to look around and see that everyone else is there also on the same terms. A Lutheran believes baptism saves infants, Presbyterians believe in covenants, Baptists believe in hearing and believing and then baptism and the only thing all three have in common is belief. Abraham believed God and it was counted as righteousness to him. The old testament circumcision made you part of a people, it wasn't part of a salvific act nor was it a guarantee that you were God's child. Every person that killed Jesus, I am assuming, was circumcised.

[@bigtobacco1098]

The "clear" necessity is hokum because the word TRINITY isn't in scripture either

[@SpotterVideo]

A person must be “baptized” to be saved, but it has nothing to do with water. The proof is found below. Old Covenant Baptism vs. New Covenant Baptism (water vs. Spirit) Water baptism was a part of the Old Covenant system of ritual washing. The Old Covenant priests had to wash before beginning their service in the temple. (Ex. 30:17-30) When Christ was water baptized by His cousin John in the Jordan River, He was under the Old Covenant system. He also only ate certain foods, and wore certain clothes, as prescribed by the 613 Old Covenant laws. Christ was water baptized by John and then the Holy Spirit came from heaven. (Acts 10:38) The order is reversed in the New Covenant. A person receives the Holy Spirit upon conversion, and then believers often declare their conversion to their friends and family through a water baptism ceremony. Which baptism makes you a member of Christ’s Church? The New Covenant conversion process is described below. (Born-again) Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ. Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, (A person must “hear” the Gospel, and “believe” the Gospel, and will then be “sealed” with the Holy Spirit.) Joh 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. (See Jer. 31:34 for the New Covenant promise, and 1 John 2:27 for the fulfillment) ============ Which baptism is a part of the salvation process, based on what the Bible says? What did Peter say below? Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. Acts 11:16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost. Based on Luke 3:16, and John 1:33, and Acts 1:5, and Acts 11:15-16, the most important thing about the word "baptize" in the New Testament has nothing to do with water. The Holy Spirit is the master teacher promised to New Covenant believers in Jeremiah 31:34, and John 14:26, and is found fulfilled in Ephesians 1:13, and 1 John 2:27. Unfortunately, many modern Christians see water/ every time they read the word "baptize" in the text. Based on the above, what is the one baptism of our faith found in the passage below? How many times is the word "Spirit" found in the passage, and how many times is the word "water" found in the passage? Eph 4:1 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called, Eph 4:2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love; Eph 4:3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. Eph 4:4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; Eph 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, (See 1 Cor. 12:13) “baptize” KJV Mat_3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Mar_1:8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost. Mar 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Water or Holy Spirit?, See Eph. 1-13.) Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: Joh_1:26 John answered them, saying, I baptize with water: but there standeth one among you, whom ye know not; Joh_1:33 And I knew him not: but he that sent me to baptize with water, the same said unto me, Upon whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending, and remaining on him, the same is he which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. 1Co_1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect. 1Co 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (See Eph. 4:1-5) Heb 9:10 Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (Old Covenant ----> New Covenant) How many people have been saved by the Old Covenant water baptism of John the Baptist? Who did John the Baptist say is the greatest Baptist that ever lived in Luke 3:16? What kind of New Covenant baptism comes from Christ? Hebrews 9:10 Old Covenant vs. New Covenant (ESV) but deal only with food and drink and various washings, regulations for the body imposed until the time of reformation. (Geneva) Which only stood in meates and drinkes, and diuers washings, and carnal rites, which were inioyned, vntill the time of reformation. (GW) These gifts and sacrifices were meant to be food, drink, and items used in various purification ceremonies. These ceremonies were required for the body until God would establish a new way of doing things. (KJV) Which stood only in meats and drinks, and divers washings, and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation. (KJV+) Which stood onlyG3440 inG1909 meatsG1033 andG2532 drinks,G4188 andG2532 diversG1313 washings,G909 andG2532 carnalG4561 ordinances,G1345 imposedG1945 on them untilG3360 the timeG2540 of reformation.G1357 (NKJV) concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation. (NLT) For that old system deals only with food and drink and various cleansing ceremonies-physical regulations that were in effect only until a better system could be established. (YLT) only in victuals, and drinks, and different baptisms, and fleshly ordinances-till the time of reformation imposed upon them .

[@sabfan729]

Mr Chorus. I just cannot get behind infant baptism. Either it's what we should do... Or we should follow as the scripture gives us examples... And that's when you have made a decision to follow Christ.. You get baptized. Immersion. Not sprinkling.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

The mode (immersion vs sprinkling) is a different discussion altogether. As a Presbyterian, the style is far less important to me than the actual application. If you want to immerse, praise God :)

[@bigtobacco1098]

OIKOS cover is the scripture example

[@musicfan300]

The real issue is that many Church leaders and followers in the past and distant past, self described Christians have spread wickedness by insisting that babies who die without baptism go to hell. Here's some holy wisdom on the subject..... ...An epistle of my father Mormon, written to me, Moroni; and it was written unto me soon after my calling to the ministry. And on this wise did he write unto me, saying: My beloved son, Moroni, I rejoice exceedingly that your Lord Jesus Christ hath been mindful of you, and hath called you to his ministry, and to his holy work. I am mindful of you always in my prayers, continually praying unto God the Father in the name of his Holy Child, Jesus, that he, through his infinite goodness and grace, will keep you through the endurance of faith on his name to the end. And now, my son, I speak unto you concerning that which grieveth me exceedingly; for it grieveth me that there should disputations rise among you. For, if I have learned the truth, there have been disputations among you concerning the baptism of your little children. 6 And now, my son, I desire that ye should labor diligently, that this gross error should be removed from among you; for, for this intent I have written this epistle. 7 For immediately after I had learned these things of you I inquired of the Lord concerning the matter. And the aword of the Lord came to me by the power of the Holy Ghost, saying: Listen to the words of Christ, your Redeemer, your Lord and your God. Behold, I came into the world not to call the righteous but sinners to repentance; the whole need no physician, but they that are sick; wherefore, little children are whole, for they are not capable of committing sin; wherefore the curse of Adam is taken from them in me, that it hath no power over them; and the law of circumcision is done away in me. And after this manner did the Holy Ghost manifest the word of God unto me; wherefore, my beloved son, I know that it is solemn mockery before God, that ye should baptize little children. Behold I say unto you that this thing shall ye teach-repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable of committing sin; yea, teach parents that they must repent and be baptized, and humble themselves as their little children, and they shall all be saved with their little children. And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism. Behold, baptism is unto repentance to the fulfilling the commandments unto the remission of sins. But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world; if not so, God is a partial God, and also a changeable God, and a respecter to persons; for how many little children have died without baptism! Wherefore, if little children could not be saved without baptism, these must have gone to an endless hell. 14 Behold I say unto you, that he that supposeth that little children need baptism is in the gall of bitterness and in the bonds of iniquity; for he hath neither faith, hope, nor charity; wherefore, should he be cut off while in the thought, he must go down to hell. 15 For awful is the wickedness to suppose that God saveth one child because of baptism, and the other must perish because he hath no baptism. 16 Wo be unto them that shall pervert the ways of the Lord after this manner, for they shall perish except they repent. Behold, I speak with boldness, having authority from God; and I fear not what man can do; for perfect love casteth out all fear. 17 And I am filled with charity, which is everlasting love; wherefore, all children are alike unto me; wherefore, I love little children with a perfect love; and they are all alike and partakers of salvation. 18 For I know that God is not a partial God, neither a changeable being; but he is unchangeable from all eternity to all eternity. 19 Little children cannot repent; wherefore, it is awful wickedness to deny the pure mercies of God unto them, for they are all alive in him because of his mercy. 20 And he that saith that little children need baptism denieth the mercies of Christ, and setteth at naught the aatonement of him and the power of his redemption. 21 Wo unto such, for they are in danger of death, hell, and an endless torment. I speak it boldly; God hath commanded me. Listen unto them and give heed, or they stand against you at the judgment-seat of Christ. 22 For behold that all little children are alive in Christ, and also all they that are without the law. For the power of credemption cometh on all them that have no law; wherefore, he that is not condemned, or he that is under no condemnation, cannot repent; and unto such baptism availeth nothing- 23 But it is mockery before God, denying the mercies of Christ, and the power of his Holy Spirit, and putting trust in dead works.... www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/bofm/moro/8?lang=eng The church is guilty of much evil in this area from the past, due to many of them teaching that babies who die without baptism go to hell...To wit, on this link www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/cti_documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20070419_un-baptised-infants_en.html It clearly shows this very wrong thinking existed in the past as it is still part of the Vatica

[@thechorusinthechaos]

Mormonism is heresy. You cannot compare the practice of the church for 2000 years to mormonism.

[@bigtobacco1098]

OIKOS covenant

[@BaphiLyngdohmawphlang-kf3kn]

Jesus himself taught about baptism.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

He did. He was also baptized and circumcised. can you elaborate on your point?

[@johnalexis8284]

Are you born again?

[@thechorusinthechaos]

Yes, by the grace of God!

[@TheJpep2424]

There is no biblical defense. Only believers were baptized in the new testament. Baptism is a public profession of faith. Infants do not understand sin repentance or faith. There is not a single example of infant Baptism in the new testament.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

You're the exact person I made this series for

[@sarahd5341]

*sigh*

[@bigtobacco1098]

There's no 24 year old baptism either

[@CappellaKeys]

You’re on point TheJpep. I thought chorusforchaos was 100% biblical but this proves me wrong and ended up being some catholic page and channel

[@krrietema4760]

While I agree, you have to wonder why infants were included in Gods covenant in the OT? And where does God end that covenant to be the God of Israel aka the church? I’m finding out that as I dig into this, that infants can be baptized because they are in living in homes of Christian parents and so it’s a mark on them as separate from the world just like infants were marked separate with circumcision.

[@MikeOlly-ev5ku]

I love evangelicals but I think they are too rigid and dogmatic. It their way or the highway. May God help us all to see ourselves as Christians.

[@bigtobacco1098]

Shame on me for wanting biblical standards

[@iggyantioch]

Thanks for the vid. I never heard this take on the American transitions with respect to the push west snd its consequences. Yes Infant Baptism!

[@Minion-kh1tq]

Wow, that was atrocious!

[@thechorusinthechaos]

:)

[@horseman528]

There is no sin in a baby. Anyone who believes this is delusional. Only when one comes to a knowledge of sin are they accountable for sins. Paul said in Romans 7:9, "For I was alive without the law once: but when the command came, sin revived, and I died.' When was Paul alive apart from the law? Obviously when he was a baby and had no knowledge of sin. Baptism is for those who choose to be baptized after they have heard the gospel and believe and repent of their sins according to Acts 2:37-38. A baby has no capability to believe the gospel or even understand what it is.

[@thechorusinthechaos]

Paul labored in Romans to point out that we all died in Adam. People sin because they are born sinful. There is not age when innocence is over. The age of accountability is no where in scripture. regarding repenting babies, you should watch the rest of the series because you this is not why we baptize. We baptize to bring into the covenant people of God. I encourage you to keep listening. If nothing else, you'll learn something.

[@horseman528]

@@thechorusinthechaosDo you believe unbaptized babies who die go to hell?

[@thechorusinthechaos]

There is no way for me to know that as only the regenerate are saved@@horseman528

[@horseman528]

So you are saying a baby can be a degenerate or in a lost condition simply for being born. What a warped and false doctrine Calvinism is! God is a righteous and just God. He is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance according to 2 Peter 3:9. God is all powerful, but He does not impose Himself on the free will of man. We choose to sin. Read Ezekiel 18:20. Read all of Ezekiel 18. @@thechorusinthechaos

[@goldknox9629]

@horseman528 No. Original Sin in inherited meaning it is part of our nature. Meaning we have the propensity to sin. That being said, children may do wrong "sin" but it is not accounted to them as they are not under the law. Ex. A 2yr old takes candy from the store they took it "stole" but they don't know the law so it's not really stealing and isn't accountable

[@bengonzales2417]

It's not Biblical!

[@thechorusinthechaos]

keep watching!