A Different Look at the Dickens Drill

What really happened that day...
Video by ShootinitStraight on the police report • Ammo in a Fire? The Fa...
Music - Birdseye Blues - Chris Haugen - KZbin Music Library
On Choice of a Defensive Firearm: Choose the firearm that meets YOUR defensive needs and is legal for your state or local jurisdiction. Just because I like revolvers for concealed carry doesn’t mean you have to too. Become your own best trainer.
You can contact Greg at [e-mail]
According to the Bible - we are to live at peace with all men as much as it is possible.
Personal defense of one’s self and of others is a last resort when there is no other option.
Self Defense Continuum - Avoid, Escape, De-escalate if possible, and if all else fails - RESIST
DISCLAIMER: All state and local laws were followed in making this video. Jeff Cooper’s rules of firearms safety were followed. Ear protection was worn. Firearms were cleared of ammunition when holding and exhibiting them.
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[@EricDaMAJ]

Shooting accurately at 40 yards with a snub nosed revolver is truly expert’s terrain. For amateurs the snub nosed revolver is best at 1-10 yards distances exclusively for personal defense. Anyone who genuinely hopes to be a “sheepdog” needs a mid sized revolver or automatic pistol and/or a LOT of practice. Condolences for your friend Ashley.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you.

[@LionquestFitness]

Also, lest anyone think I was recommending a five shot J frame as a do-all, end-all, I was just wanting some practice with Karlita at 25 yards since I was bragging about how accurate she was a few videos ago.

[@EricDaMAJ]

@@LionquestFitness You're one of the few who could realistically engage an enemy at 40 yards with a snub nosed revolver. Most people would struggle with a duty sized pistol or even a PCC. I love small revolvers but my guaranteed 100% accurate shot engagement range is 3 meters.

[@LionquestFitness]

@@EricDaMAJ After finishing editing the video, I realized some (not you or most the folks who follow this channel) might misconstrue that I was recommending a J frame as a 40 yard gun. Your insightful post gave me a segue to offer that disclaimer. Ideally, at 40 yards I want a patrol rifle, but there again, how realistic is that for daily concealed carry for an ordinary citizen.

[@carlosmorris4510]

What model of handgun and caliber did Elijah use, btw (just curious)?... I like my revolvers, but he most likely used a semi-auto.

[@kesselster]

One of the aspects of DA revolvers is the fact that, once you master the DA trigger, you can shoot almost anything well. Assuming your fundamentals are good.

[@LionquestFitness]

That is a definite advantage of training with a revolver, even if your primary is a semi-auto.

[@sombra6153]

Greg - thanks for clarifying the actual course of events. I’d also read the police summary. After it happened and trainers embraced the”Dickens Drill,” the par time of 15 seconds became the standard. The police summary you referenced makes Young Eli’s response that much more impressive. He got his significant other out of the way and fired four rounds from cover, then he moved forward, probably around tables and possibly hysterical mall food court diners to the 25 and fired four more. The he moved within 7-8 yards and finished it - all within 15 seconds. Ten rounds taking and using cover, movement, and obstacles in 15 seconds is a bit of a feat. Of course when the body shifts gears to account for the danger, a lot can happen in a short amount of time, I remember the late Jim Cirillo’s description of his first bodega incident taking on three armed robbers with a Model 10. He thought it all happened in under two seconds. Years later, IDPA recreated the scenario in a match with Jim participating. Jim bested the fastest times by at least a second yet thought his own time was greater than the original incident. Anyway, 10 at 40 yards in 15 seconds is something that many are hard pressed to perform stationary off hand. Throw in movement and…. Throw in a two inch revolver…. I ran myself and the other old broke down cops working a retirement job though that course of fire, complete with movement a while back and when we were done, Eli still held the record. Great video!

[@LionquestFitness]

Thanks for breaking it down even further. This gives insights we all can utilize in our practice.

[@marciocumpiancumpian2075]

Good morning here from Brazil my friend. This case had repercussions here too. This boy is a hero, a man of courage. I hope there are always these people in the world to inspire other people. God bless the Americas 🙏🇧🇷🤝🇺🇲

[@LionquestFitness]

Obrigado meu irmão.

[@marciocumpiancumpian2075]

@@LionquestFitness 🙏🤝

[@tylermorrison7051]

That's a sweet revolver. I can't even imagine shooting anywhere near that well at 20-42 yards. Well done, Greg. Let me know when Lionquest Fitness Shooting Academy becomes a reality.

[@lesgillard985]

What there isn't going to be a Grambo Academy 😢 .

[@LionquestFitness]

@@lesgillard985 I always get a smile from you and Tyler. 😊 I needed it today.

[@lesgillard985]

@LionquestFitness Grambo... as yiu may not l now, we.water pistol carrier, have experienced multiple internet hacks , not to mention bank card hacks ( me 2 x in 3 months). I gave also had many.of my utube sites mysterious turned off, yours being one. Don't worry, I have my unassembled water pistols at the ready along with my spare coloured water containers at the ready. I'll do a back check on your post to see what I missed. Will be good to catch up with Tyler. :-)

[@tylermorrison7051]

@lesgillard985 You're back! I wondered where you had gone. I thought maybe you were waltzing Matilda or something. 😄

[@tylermorrison7051]

@LionquestFitness Les and I just talk a lot of crazy sh!t. Happy to help, Greg.

[@sisleymichael]

I was unaware of the details you mentioned. I now have a clearer picture. Thanks.

[@jackgreenstalk777]

Hey Greg, thanks for includind that Eli moved up. 2 for 4 at 40+ yards on an active shooter is still stud performance under real pressure of having to hide your girlfriend and respond vs a rifle shooter with a pistol. He is an absolute stud. He stopped firing for a moment at 42 yards, and allowed for innocent bystanders to pass thru his line of fire, before he continued to stop the threat. The young man is an absolute hero. Impressive marksmanship. And more impressive composure, before, during and after the event.

[@LionquestFitness]

I can't agree more.

[@MichaelSmith-jz4st]

Deepest CONDOLENCES on the loss of your dear friend Ashley . Still always impressed by Carlita and you as a team.

[@allenw969]

Thank you. That explanation makes a lot more sense that what I had previously heard about that incident.

[@LionquestFitness]

I give the credit to Antonius at ShootinitStraight for getting that police report.

[@bobhartman2571]

Ah, now it makes sense. Thank you, Greg.

[@jasonaffeldt7838]

Nice old wheel gun👍. Mr Holster smiling from up above for sure. See ya next time.🇺🇲🔪🔥🌲

[@shootinitstraight4162]

Another wonderful video, Greg 👌. That young man is indeed a hero, no doubt, and I still find myself occasionally practicing a few shots beyond the "average gunfight distance". It's a good skill to keep in the old toolbox.

[@LionquestFitness]

That's for sure, and thanks again for debunking the lemming mentality of many of the KZbin gun channels concerning this incident.

[@LionquestFitness]

BTW - HR Funk wanted to know how you got a copy of the police report. He is wanting to get one himself.

[@mikereese15]

Absolute hero. Had not heard the actual specifics. Thsnks for thst clarification.

[@tomcarr4630]

Thanks for sharing the important Dickens details, and your beautiful revolver! Weekly practice reenforces what my practical shooting distances are as I get older.

[@robwilson3749]

Thanks for the clarification and NICE shooting. we got trained in class on a Beretta 92 DAO setups by an instructor that came up in uniform on double action Smith .38's in the 70's. I'm way, way better served for having had that intense DAO training all these years later by having had that training and perspective of smooth stroking a trigger for the entirety of the program.

[@LionquestFitness]

Good observation on DAO training.

[@ratagris21]

Thanks for the Dickens Drill update and incident details.

[@michaeldimartino1004]

Thanks for shedding light on this. It took an incredible amount of courage to move in on the shooter the way he did. I am even more impressed by this than I was thinking that he was able to make all of his hits at 40 yards.

[@LionquestFitness]

That's for sure.

[@fbweaver63]

thank you for the video. carlita is a pretty gal, especially at 59 years old, and that was some better than pretty good shooting from 25 yards. i don't even think i've tried 25 yards with a handgun. i had never heard of the drill, either. thank you, again.

[@LionquestFitness]

I haven't paid much attention to it other than everyone and their brother are doing some variation of this drill without going into the facts of what actually happened. I give Antonius credit for getting the actual police report and debunking some of the myths being perpetuated.

[@fbweaver63]

thank you again. i remember seeing it on the news and thinking that he was young, had a lot of courage and composure and was a really good shot.@@LionquestFitness

[@jamesunderwood1710]

I’ve been practicing at 40 yards since that happened and got decent at that distance . Now the next step I guess is to incorporate the movement in . Thanks for the great information and demonstration.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thirty yards is the furthest I can go with my range, but I commend your practice and your striving for mastery.

[@3rdpig]

What amazes me isn't that he hit the target 2 out of 4 times at 42 yards, what amazes me is the circumstances he did it under.

[@LionquestFitness]

Absolutely.

[@YellowHammer26]

👍👍 Thanks Greg, appreciate the details. Hope you have a great day today.

[@LionquestFitness]

You do the same Lance.

[@Fudmottin]

I never did hear all the facts of that shooting. Sounds reasonable though. Sometimes you've got to close to engage. That's a tough situation. I would be wanting to keep a low profile too after that. There may still be on going civil matters that we don't know about.

[@LionquestFitness]

Good point about the civil matters.

[@redesert_boy8202]

Good discussion about a difficult topic in the world of self defense. Greg, sorry to hear about your friend and important to turn to the Word as a trusted resource anytime. Thanks, sir.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you Robert!

[@slikrickabn1190]

Greg, you have one of the best channels on KZbin. Keep up the good work!

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you Rick!

[@locksbog4270]

Sorry for your loss Greg. Great info on drill 👍✌️🇺🇸💪

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you.

[@frankbutta9344]

Hi Greg. I made a very kind post, but it’s disappeared. That’s been happening to me a lot. 🤷🏼 Anywho, thanks for the Dickens info. 👍👍👍👍

[@LionquestFitness]

Hi Frank - you're the second person who has told me that. I am not sure what is going on.

[@TUKByV]

My condolences.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thanks. Friend, co-worker, and sister in Christ, she passed after a long, painful struggle. My wife and I have been praying this past few weeks for her to have peace.

[@dangerman007]

Thank you for telling the truth about what happened. I am just as impressed as before. An amazing young man who is a true hero. To advance into danger is the definition of bravery and selflessness.

[@LionquestFitness]

I absolutely agree. Now compare that to the Ulvalde officers and now the Acorn Sheriff's deputy.

[@ThecrazyScotsman]

When it comes down to it in the heat of the moment is a whole nother ball game. Always good to see Carlita out good shooting my friend. Jacket says it all

[@LionquestFitness]

My old Kajukenbo jacket. I lost touch with Sifu Anthony Young over the years, but the lessons learned are still there.

[@ThecrazyScotsman]

@LionquestFitness Understand 100% unfortunately haven't been able to reach my Teacher in many years

[@joep4235]

Great vid, thanks Greg! I stretch my snub to 20 yards for fun sometimes, but wouldn't trust my shooting past 10, unless the situation was dire. These kind of stories make me wish I could carry something bigger, but at my age, its just not practical.

[@LionquestFitness]

You have a point there Joe.

[@livincincy4498]

It seems “ olde man “ or “ Fud “ to practice Bullseye Competition shooting. This practice is a safe way to challenge and stress yourself. It also has a competitive twist and a metric to evaluate yourself. You also can just shoot the caliber(s) you want. NRA Bullseye has you shoot 22, “ a center fire caliber “ and 45 Caliber guns. You shoot 10 rounds in a slow fire, medium, and rapid fire salvo. This gives you a possibility of (300) points from each gun/ caliber. You shoot a NRA bullseye target at the range and speed printed on the target. This is all done (1) handed.

[@carloparisi9945]

Carlita goes ahead of the class at snubbies graduation day

[@chesterbarnhardt5346]

Thanks and may you find peace

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you my friend.

[@DL-yc4pm]

Good video my friend. My bro and I like to set back at 50yrd and plink with our 38 snubs. Its fun and great practice because there's lots of room for error out of a 2inch barrel! Great shootin and camera work, even if you did drink an extra cup of coffee lol. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.

[@LionquestFitness]

I had a glass of coke hidden on the table with my range bag. 😅

[@davidgalloway6414]

Great Revolver, Great Shooting, Great Video and Great Message at the end Sir!

[@theoriginalOSOK]

Thanks Greg. This is the first account of the actual details.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thanks to Antonius.

[@toddcox8436]

Thenk you for this helpful information. I appreciate the Scripture you shared as well

[@andrenunes7924]

Great video! Congratulations!

[@paulstoyek381]

Well said Greg..

[@DanTheWolfman]

Your distance info corresponds with what I suggested was more likely when I made my Realistic Dicken's Drill vid after jacking my heart rate up & what I've heard since. 2 misses at 42....braced 2 hits, then moved up. Hero. The 1st guy the scumbag killed coming out of the bathroom that was closest was also carrying. I do try to finish more sessions at 25 yards now. And did a video at 25 then 50 yards as well.

[@LionquestFitness]

I need to find that one to watch.

[@DanTheWolfman]

@@LionquestFitness "Realistic Dicken Drill" I didn't do that great and that is the point sort of to it...I hadn't shot a pistol past 25 yards before and could do so better now

[@marie-noellebaechler1433]

Thank you very much for this extremely interesting video and for the link to the video of your friend. When I see how much I must compensante in order to touch the center of the target at 25 meters with my 3" s&w64, I am even more inpressed!

[@marie-noellebaechler1433]

By the way, the fact that he used a Glock in 9x19 is also interesting and relevant. Here some people won local 50 meters "service" competitions with a G17 against all the P210 owners....

[@LionquestFitness]

@@marie-noellebaechler1433 Being a fan of the Glock 19 I find that very interesting. That is one of my favorite handguns. I can put it down for months and am just as accurate when I pick it back up.

[@marie-noellebaechler1433]

I have the same experience with my personal M18.

[@JaredAF]

nice shooting greg! i want to do a challenge like this on my channel with my mdl 36

[@LionquestFitness]

That would be great to do!

[@edwardpetty5401]

My condolences to you and Ashley's family.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you Edward.

[@Jim-oo7dk]

Still haven't heard what the weapon used was. If he said it I missed it. I think that would shed a lot of light on the situation. Also, even if Elisjsha didn't want to go on the TV for interviews, it would still be nice if he would let some magazine interview him to get a feel for what the heck kind of training gave him the physical and mental ability to do what he did. That needs to be shared. Most people don't come properly equipped let alone capable.

[@LionquestFitness]

It was either a Glock 19 or a Glock 17 with FMJ 115 grain. From what I understand his grandfather taught him to shoot.

[@Steve-1955]

Thank you for another fine Video That young man is really something

[@LionquestFitness]

Agreed.

[@pedroemilio7592]

Good video Greg

[@LionquestFitness]

Thanks Pedro.

[@codybaker1645]

Thanks for another good video. Sorry to hear about your friend. I appreciate the scripture reminder at the end of the video.

[@LionquestFitness]

Ashley got saved over a year and a half ago after she began the battle with cancer. She used to sit with me and two of my grandchildren in church. Another coworker of ours is the pastor at the small church we go to.

[@marcoscustodio6255]

I am sorry for your friend Ashley 🙏

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you Marcos.

[@coatpocketsurvivalist]

Greg May the Lord grant you his peace and his perpetual light shine upon Ashley. You and yours are in my prayers.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you.

[@thebluesrockers]

"Dickens" is also is famous for making Cider. And my wife sure loves a good "Dickens Cider." Sorry, Greg I couldn't pass this one up. hahaha Peace.. Joe

[@LionquestFitness]

See, the only cider I'm familiar with is Bragg's Apple Cider Vinegar.

[@thebluesrockers]

@@LionquestFitness I hope this comment made you laugh though. I also love your video's and find your channel very inspiring. Thanks for all you do man. Peace.. Joe

[@LionquestFitness]

@@thebluesrockers It did. Thank you man!

[@hrfunk]

Thanks so much for providing some details of the Dickens incident. The way it’s been characterized to this point never sounded quite right to me. The version you recounted sounds much more plausible. Do you know how your friend got a copy of the report? I would love to read it.

[@LionquestFitness]

I don't know. I'll ask and see.

[@LionquestFitness]

I went back to the original video and found this: *The police report regarding the Greenwood Park Mall incident (Indiana) was obtained via FOIA by America's First Freedom, an NRA publication, and discussed in an open public forum. I've been searching online for the article, but haven't found it yet.

[@LionquestFitness]

I found this article www.americas1stfreedom.org/content/true-hero-eli-dicken-cleared-of-charges-praised-by-police/

[@rkba4923]

Elijah was just doing what he had to do. Same as he's done since. Grandpa taught him well.

[@LionquestFitness]

I'll say. I hope I can be that big of an influence on my grandchildren.

[@xxlxpman]

I like me a big ol Dicken's Cider every day. (Think Bob and Tom Show).

[@LionquestFitness]

😅

[@thealsatian4232]

I still shoot my sixguns out to 50 yards every weekend. I think you need to own the space of a car length as most shootings are in that space. By own, I mean that you can hit anything you can see at that distance and shorter. Longer range shooting is challenging, particularly with a snubby, but it can be mastered. Regular practice is the key. But some guns are much easier to shoot at 40-50 yards than others.

[@LionquestFitness]

Wise words from a pistolero.

[@johnochicago8457]

Greg was he using a semi-auto or did he have to use a revolver and do reloads? Thanks for the video, great as usual.

[@LionquestFitness]

I am pretty sure he was shooting a Glock 19 or Glock 17.

[@joe1940]

The Lord was definitely with Dickens that day. The bad guy had a rifle, but proper tactics and a cool head saved the day.

[@LionquestFitness]

I agree whole heartedly.

[@cleondubois1270]

The camera was shaky but your shooting wasn't. Good advice that we all need to consider the possibility of facing an active shooter. I work on some longer shots with the Glocks when at the range. An active shooter at a distance could be one of the VERY few instances to use a revolver in SA mode.

[@LionquestFitness]

Very true Cleon.

[@fluffles9591]

This guys in the mafia

[@LionquestFitness]

😄 Well, a young man from NJ working in Walmart said I had that John Gotti swept back hair look.

[@rene6722]

I stopped carrying My revolver everyday when I realized that the average person has a Glock 19 on the streets or better. Why give yourself five little shots? Honestly I only carry My revolver when I have to now. Capacity does matter. I ONCE FOUND MYSELF IN A SITUATION WHEN MY FIVE SHOTS WAS NOT ENOUGH AND I HAD TO FLEE. BECAUSE THE GUY THAT WAS AIMING MY WAY HAD 33 ROUNDS IN HIS PISTOL... 😊 TRYING TO ENGAGE WITH SOMEONE LIKE THAT IS STUPID. HAVING A REVOLVER MEANS YOU MIGHT HAVE TO FLEE. TRUE STORY

[@LionquestFitness]

Not a bad story. I tailor my carry to where I'll be going and what are the most likely situations I could face. Sometimes it is a Glock 19.

[@rene6722]

@@LionquestFitness I really appreciate your channel. When I do carry a revolver it's usually my Smith & Wesson model 640. Usually when I go to the gym . I live in the countryside out here in California so I carry my Glock 20 a lot. Lots of bears out here. When I'm in the city I usually carry my 1911.

[@noelstephenryan4837]

RIP Ashley

[@LionquestFitness]

Thank you.

[@joesheetstheragman7737]

Bible verse and tribute at the end. God Bless.

[@LionquestFitness]

Thanks Joe.

[@anangryranger]

Yup, I remember those 50yds on down to 3ft qualifications from the late 70s with the PD. Overall, we had better shooters then, and more confident officers than today's mag-dump 9mm shooters out on the street. 😏

[@LionquestFitness]

Can't argue with that. The recent fiasco with the acorn officer comes to mind.

[@CyborgZeta]

I don't know if I could do a 40 yard shot with my 642. A bigger revolver, maybe.

[@LionquestFitness]

Past 30 yards is stretching it for a J frame for me and it is less for an airweight. However, there are exceptions like GunSam who started doing those 75 yard shots.

[@T.A.B.Videos]

👍

[@johnnymccann5607]

when I was young so long ago the rule of thumb here in nc was hunting and should be for self defense, never shoot farther than you can stand off hand and put 6 rounds inside a deer vital area and it think for self defense as well. I've shot groups like that at 100yd many times.some times smaller but the target wasn't shooting back at me and not a high stress situation. my point it every person doesn't shoot the same especially under stress. everyone should find and know there limitations. the more the stress the more chances of missed shots. I read 30- 40 years ago the IWF defense force pistol course with live fire,running, crawling, explosives going off, machine gun fire , if the soldiers if I remember correctly missed one out of five shot or two out of seven shot it was totally acceptable due to the great stress level on that course .papa wishing you well. 😊

[@LionquestFitness]

Thanks for your insights Johnny. Tell Papa hello.

[@mikeellis4158]

Greg, what brand of grips is miss Carlita wearing? 50 yrds qualification.

[@LionquestFitness]

Precision Specialties out of Michigan.They are called Hideout Grips.

[@mrbottomfeeder]

🔥🔥👍👍😎 🧡🧡

[@yuvgotubekidding]

👍🫡🇺🇸

[@Paladin1873]

Great marksmanship, Greg. I was not aware of the details of the Dickens shooting, so thanks for that. I also subscribe to Antonius at shootinitstraight. He does excellent analyses but has not put up any material in the last month. I wish he would, because with Paul Harrell now sadly out of the picture, it would be nice to see his channel and yours grow.

[@LionquestFitness]

He did a video on the Taurus Tracker four weeks ago, but I'd love to see him post more frequently.

[@Paladin1873]

@@LionquestFitnessYes, I watched it and commented after seeing your show. I've not been getting any notifications from YT (surprise, surprise).