A Far Too Brief History of Pontiac - The Excitement Division!

[@billyjoejimbob56]

Jon: I have been enjoying your video series, and Pontiac was and still is my favorite former GM brand. My dad's first car was a 10 year old 1941 Torpedo Coupe six. That was followed by a less used 4-door sedan six. After a '56 Chevrolet, he returned to Pontiac for a 1963 Catalina 4-door sedan. With three on the tree and no power steering or brakes, it had to be the most stripped down Pontiac off the assembly line that year. Then there was the '66 Caalina Safari that dad loved but mom was afraid to drive. In 1995, I purchased a new Bonneville SLE... Leather interior and upgraded exterior trim with the then new Series II 3800. It was a distinctive look for its time, and a good car for many years, but a money pit once it reached 100K miles. I agree that for most of Pontiac's history, it was an unremarkable brand based on shared platforms and varying levels of badge engineering. Its best years began in 1955, stretched into the 60s, then faded into a generic commodity by the mid 70s. Developing a meaningfully different personalities for each GM brand was an achieivable goal in the 50s when each brand was essentially a single core product line offering multiple body styles and trim levels, but that didn't last. As the market evolved into multiple size segments, resources had to be sub-divided into multiple platforms and vehicle architectures. Light trucks grew in share and importance to the bottom line. New segments such as mini-vans, and SUVs drew customers away from traditional body styles. Competition became global both at home and in markets abroad. The resources that once enabled distinct brand identities for Pontiac and other brands were spread too thin to capture the attention of customers in a changing market place. Today's GM has retreated from most global markets, and in its home market comprises just three brands/channels... Chevrolet, Buick/GMC, and Cadillac. Each makes most of its profit on badge engineered versions of shared light truck and crossover sport utility platforms. It is no longer the GM that Alfred Sloan once envisioned.

[@THEDonnyB]

The split grill Pontiac look is iconic. It makes Pontiac arguably the most identifiable car.

[@wonkychikn]

I worked at GM Holden's plant when we were making the GTO coupe,G8 and GXP for Pontiac..we also made pre production pilot G8 versions of the Commodore Ute ( to be badged G8ST)...this was an awesome time to be working at Holden,and a very proud moment for everyone at Holden to be making V8 performance cars for Pontiac.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Very cool! Thanks for commenting!

[@cavalierliberty6838]

I blame saving Buick as the thing that singlehandedly killed both Pontiac and Australian made Holdens.

[@johnnymason2460]

​@@cavalierliberty6838 Buick is necessary because without it there would be a huge gap between Chevrolet and Cadillac. I have always believed that Pontiac should have been kept. It's GMC that is completely unnecessary.

[@cavalierliberty6838]

@@johnnymason2460 Buick is wholly unnecessary. It's like mercury: a marquee without a market.

[@johnnymason2460]

@cavalierliberty6838 Really? Can you take Lincoln seriously right now? No, you can't. Lincoln should be competing with BMW, Mercedes-Benz, and Lexus. Instead, right now they're nowhere near those brands. They can't even compete with Cadillac. Mercury is needed to get Lincoln back to its true luxury status. Getting rid of Buick would create a huge gap between Chevrolet and Cadillac. I don't want Cadillac to be brought down market where Acura and Audi are.

[@jeffery2864]

The Pontiac brand brings back many fond memories in my family. My uncle Jim was employed by the division as a technical illustrator for his 30yr career at GM. My first remembrance was of his red body / white roof 1959 Pontiac Bonneville that he claimed could hold 5 golf bags (which it easily did). My dad brought home a Tempest in 1961 that was an economical car for moms use in a deep maroon with matching color-keyed interior. My career as a tech illustrator saw me work on the ‘84 Fiero program. We were able to take early prototypes out onto I-75 in Troy, Michigan to experience a real sports car feeling. There was much new production technology introduc-ed - space frames that were placed into a jig that simultaneously drilled all the holes needed to fasten the plastic body panels (an industry first). I also recall working on the J-car program in Pontiacs attempt (along with Chevys Cavalier & Cadillac Cimmaron) to downsize into the compact segment. In 1986 Pontiac had a very stylish new Bonneville that I felt was GMs best looking full-size 4 door. But then who can forget the Aztec, a forward thinking sport utility that was nothing short of ugly! (At least Breaking Bad brought it back to noterity!) I recall go -ing the last North American (Detroit) International Auto Show to see the last ever Pontiac display. Sad to see what was once the “wide track” division fall into the annals of auto-motive history!

[@AllCarswithJon]

I've got a video about the Fiero and one of the coolest things I discovered when researching it was that jig you mentioned that drilled all the holes for the panels at once. That was just cool. :)

[@dicksanders8206]

Nice reference -- the Aztec in Breaking Bad.

[@wonkychikn]

Fun fact..the Fiero plastic body panels were developed in conjunction with Nylex plastics of Australia!

[@empireoflizards]

'Platform Sharing' must be a nice way of saying 'Corporate Meddling With Company's innovators' lol. Aside from that, perhaps one can still see Pontiac's subtle roles in car history that had some stand-out moments and then declined but otherwise still filled a valid role in car history.

[@CJColvin]

Also don't forget Pontiac's Canadian Sub-brands like Acadian and Beaumont.

[@williamflack5767]

I had 1976 Pontiac Grand Le Man's. Beautiful car. Dad helped me get it. I was 16. Paid the note 100.00 bucks a month. Factory 8 Track player. Bucket seats. Full console. I hope to find a 76 or 77 Grand Prix. Had the 350. Pontiac, my favorite car.

[@ericbritton9346]

That was a great history of the Pontiac brand. I had owned three in my time. 1987 Grand Am LE sedan white 1998 Grand Am GT sedan green 1997 Bonneville SSEi silver I miss them so. Now Chevy Malibu are the sole survivor of the GM brand, we don't have anything to choose from anymore. Now we have is SUVs and crossovers, there are considerable boring cars, and people don't want to have fun anymore driving. They treat them like household appliances now, and more Imports and European markets are fun cars now. Sad to say.

[@courtneypuzzo2502]

some of my favorite muscle cars including GTO Trans Am Firebird Gran Prix etc. my aunt Betty had a used 1970 Trans Am in the late 70s to mid 1980s

[@eddiego8197]

I had a 2005 Pontiac Vibe, it was identical to the Toyota Matrix only 6" longer. It was super reliable, roomy, very economical, and just a joy to drive, best car I ever had it could do 80mph and get 32mpg, what a great car!

[@bobcarlino7280]

I was always amazed at how poorly the Pontiac Vibe did in the marketplace. IMO, it was genius...the reliability, economy and value of a Toyota, but with a Detroit nameplate for those who insisted on "buying American".

[@Chiefsfan98]

I love my 2009 Vibe! One of the best cars out there. Great Toyota reliability with awesome Pontiac styling.

[@garrettbenson7743]

I’ve got 2x1965 Ponchos and a 66. GPs and a Lemans. 36k, 42k and 44k original miles with original paint. Love those cars. Putting new white walls on the 8 lugs today!

[@nofaith5994]

I had a 1950 Pontiac Silver Streak with a massive straight 8 and a 1973 Pontiac Catalina that was the most luxurious beast imaginable. Loved them both.

[@8176morgan]

A great many years ago our family car was a white 1961 Pontiac Tempest station wagon. My father had bought it used in 1964 and It had previously belonged to a postal carrier who during that time span had already put around 60,000 miles on it. That particular car was the worst by far that my family ever owned, with the primary reason being that despite being a mid-size station wagon it had only four cylinders producing an output of just110 hp, which is far too little for a car of that size, so as a consequence it was constantly causing us problems. At 88,000 miles it went through the costly process of having the engine rebuilt and a couple of years later we limped it down to a car dealer that my father knew well and bought a brand new 1969 Rambler Ambassador station wagon - and what a difference that car made in the way of reliability! As a result of that first-hand experience I have never had a very high opinion of anything that General Motors has had to offer, even though I'm sure they have produced vehicles of significantly better durability. BTW. There were over 300,000 first-generation Pontiac Tempests built between the years 1961-63, and yet according to the Pontiac Little Indian car club there are less than 600 which are known to have survived; making it I guess a fairly rare automobile today, but also one that bears testimony to the very poor quality of its overall workmanship. 🙁

[@slantfish65sd]

Okay okay you win. Your videos are pretty freaking awesome. I really appreciate you bringing a lot of this Pontiac Street a lot. You're really touching on a lot of the early history and stuff that a lot of other people just skim over and they don't include. Awesome work sir

[@AllCarswithJon]

I appreciate that! I always get interested in the little threads that connect things - like my Studebaker video where the family founder almost wasn't allowed to leave Germany because he had secret knowledge about working with metal and wood they didn't want to leave the country! I'm always afraid people will find the cool little facts boring, whereas I find too in-depth discussions of minor changes in head bolt patterns yawn-inducing. Just trying to be "me" and hope others find it interesting! (oh, and I do like to win. LOL!!)

[@Thatdavemarsh]

I love these far too brief histories. Your stories are told extremely well and are thoroughly enjoyable!

[@AllCarswithJon]

Glad you like them!

[@fob1xxl]

It was the HOTTEST MUSCLE CAR around in the 60s . From FIREBIRD, GTO, and THE JUDGE, they covered it all !

[@fob1xxl]

In 1959 my Dad bought a Pontiac Bonneville 4 door Vistadome hardtop, or 4dr flat top. It was gorgeous. White body with Coral roof. Interior was white and coral. A real knockout ! Car was so big, but handled like a compact. Fond memories. I was a teenager !

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for sharing!

[@bobcarlino7280]

My parents had a couple of Pontiacs: a '59 Catalina wagon with a 389-4V with dual exhausts; a ho-hum '67 Executive wagon; and a '73 Grand Prix SJ with a 455-4V (that beast could smoke the right rear tire like there was no tomorrow!). I've only owned one Pontiac: a '78 Phoenix with a 305 under the hood...a good, reliable car. In my opinion, Pontiac easily had the best-looking cars of the 60's...such as the '63 & '69 Grand Prix; the '65 Bonneville; the '67 GTO hardtop; etc.

[@Trapper4265]

Jon, kudos for another extremely poignant and intelligent history of once America's most popular car brand, Pontiac. I currently own a 2008 Grand Prix, base model, I purchased new, which rolled 200k miles this summer, primarily due to GM's reliable 3800 engine, but to restate your point, it could have very well been an Olds Intrigue, a Buick LeSabre, a Chevy Malibu or Impala. By 2008, the Grand Prix's only claim to fame is that it looked sportier, that's it! Thanks again for a Grand Prix run down the fast lane of Pontiac's highway to extinction. Hahaha! You would make a great "TED Talk" speaker on automotive history. 😊

[@AllCarswithJon]

Haha! Thanks for the comment and compliment. I don't know all this off the top of my head, it takes a lot of research. :)

[@andrewdonohue1853]

supercharged 3800 or NA? the GTP (later GT supercharged) was a blast with some mods. the 3800 is one hell of an engine. i have owned many, and currently own 2. you can pry them from my dead cold fingers. GM's current engines largely suck

[@ginaboos9563]

Pontiacs handle much better than the others with the great buick 3800. Been running pontiac for 32 years. Just wish they paired a better trans maybe even a 5 speed.

[@andrewdonohue1853]

@@ginaboos9563 an L67 5 speed grand prix or bonneville SSEi would have been a blast

[@leonardgordon1748]

Great video with lots of information that I never heard before. My Dad after he retired bought a yellow mid 80s fourth generation Gran Prix. He loved that car although the doors were so long you could barely get out of the car in the garage. It’s funny how that is the only Pontiac that I remember him having even though his cousin owned one of the biggest Pontiac dealerships in the area. Thanks again

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the kind words! Funny you mentioned the size of the doors! My grandfather's Pontiac was a 70-ish something (i was young and don't really remember) but you could barely open the doors in his garage!

[@j.kevvideoproductions.6463]

Very concise breakdown of all the GM divisions and companion makes! Apparently my Maternal grandparent's owned an Oakland during the Mid Twenties. My Mother didn't remember it very well though as she was just early grade school age at the time. The first car I ever bought with my own $ was a '71 LeMan's 4 dr Sedan. It was a good solid car that was very reliable, but not sporty enough for a guy in late teens, or early 20's. Ended up buying a '73 Mercury Capri.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks, appreciate the kind words! getting into the companion makes was necessary for the video... but hard to do to keep it concise and not drone on about it. (at least I hope I didn't!)

[@davinp]

It's been said the odd looking Pontiac Aztec helped kill off Pontiac. GM used cheap plastics in Pontiac. The Pontiac Vibe is a better vehicle because it was made by Toyota. It's the Pontiac version of the Corolla Matrix. This was Toyota's last partnership with GM

[@bradsmith950]

Pare eez e Ann

[@dougybrownie481]

I have a vibe GT and it has to a Toyota engine and it’s a great little get about car.My dream was GTO or a Trans Am , that’s when Pontiac was great

[@TheREALOC1972]

Nah, getting rid of the Firebird is what killed Pontiac. They could have done nothing but the Firebird and it would have survived.

[@texasbassranger]

I learned to drive as a kid in a 1953 Pontiac Chieftain with a straight eight engine. It was a bit slow off the line but it was like driving my living room down the road. It had a back seat the size of a tennis court and was....uh, perfect for a teenaged boy. I loved that car and do to this day.

[@carrsllccarrillo6507]

Pontiac was indeed the performance division. It captivated the youth and prowlness of a brand that wanted to stand out from the rest being under the GM corporate umbrella. Since I was kid watching Knightrider I always wanted to own my own firebird and that opportunity came when I turned 17 and owned a used '87 Trans Am. From there I became a Pontiac fan for life. By the time I turned '23 I end up selling the car and bought something better, a '89 Flame Red Metallic GTA with ttops. Although I may be a bit bias and this it my opinion, to me it was one of best looking, best handling sports cars with a solid axle system that I have ever driven and as a auto tech I can sure do that kind of comparison. I also had many ties among family and freinds who also owned Pontiacs of their own. An aunt who owned a '77 grand prix. A great uncle who owned a '78 Trans Am. A freind who owned a '67 GTO and 2 grand prixs of the late 90s. A second cousin who owned a '82 Trans Am. An uncle who owned several: a '67 firebird convertible, a '79 Trans Am, a '89 GTA convertible with the 350, a 25th anniversary Trans Am, the 30th anniversary Trans Am. My mom owned a '07 G6 and my younger brother owned '02 GTP Grand Prix which I rebuilt the engine. (Love those 3800s) Even at the first shop I worked for my boss had a Pontiac. First a '93 Bonneville SE and then '01 Bonneville SSEI. For whatever reason I have always felt comfortable driving a Pontiac and that hasn't changed my mind one bit. That car company to me was screwed over by GM as a whole with playing politics when the bailout rolled around. The axing of the brand left a bitter taste in my mouth that hasn't left. I felt it was totally unfair for allowing the other brand: Buick to continue. Especially when GM end up selling out to China and selling more Buicks there then here. As much as I want the brand to be revived (and wish it was bought out from another party), I rather not see it occur as it would be tarnished by a greedy corporation that has no idea what it had. To me division #2 is #1 in my eyes.

[@andrewdonohue1853]

the 3800 is a fantastic engine, it's a real shame GM doesnt build that kind of quality anymore. i still own 2 3800 pontiacs. im surprised you had to rebuild one, they typically run forever unless you flog them HARD

[@carrsllccarrillo6507]

@@andrewdonohue1853 unfortunately the engine was neglected from the original owner. From my observation the car sat for long periods as the odometer just shows under 80k on the clock when I bought it. When I did the tear down the oil was pretty sludged up in the valley. I believe lack of maintenance was the issue and upon further tear down it look like the #2 rod was loose causing it to knock during travel. I plan on doing a complete tear down and rebuild down the road. But for now the replacement used engine is doing quite well and enjoying the miles of smiles its putting on my face.

[@WhittyPics]

I have owned a few Pontiacs in my lifetime. I bought a 78 Firebird when I was 18

[@robertzip49]

I graduated high school n 79. I had a 65 grand prix. 4 barrel. Loved that thing

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

Thanks for doing a Pontiac history video!!... I'd like to see one on Plymouth, Mercury,AMC, Studebaker etc...

[@AllCarswithJon]

Your wish is my suggestion! LOL!

[@jonathang2017]

Bunkie Knudsen's (pronounced nude-sen) granddaughter is a very good friend of mine. Missy has some very interesting stories about Lee Iacocca, Larry Shinoda, and "Uncle" Harley Earl. One of my all-time favorite cars is the Continental Mark IV, and I continually thank Missy for the fact that Bunkie approved and green-lighted the design before he was fired as President of Ford.

[@AllCarswithJon]

That's awesome, be cool to hear some of those stories. :)

[@RagShop1]

Reportedly, Bunkie also ordered the crash restyling of the T-Bird which resulted in the 1970 model with it's sharp, bird-beak like prow and a new fastback roofline. It wasn't a new design but a restyle of the 1967-1969 model meant to shore up sales until the all-new 1972 Thunderbird came out.

[@jonathang2017]

@@RagShop1 The Bunkie Beak...

[@wmalden]

I always pronounced Knudsen “Kah-NOOD-sen”.

[@TheREALOC1972]

That's cool, Susie, his son Peter's granddaughter was my High School Sweetheart in the late 80's, and I corrected him too.... I met Bunkie and Francy, that's what he called her, a couple times. he was an absolutely incredible man and he had this auroa about him that just told you "Don't screw with thIs man", I had a 76 Camaro and he insisted on going for a ride in it, about halfway through he made me pull over so he could drive even though he wasn;t supposed to drive, then we pulled back over a couple blocks from the house and switched again so noone would know. He knew you know.... contrary to popular belief and GM folklore he knew what Pete Estes and John Delorian was up to when they were "breaking the rules" coming up with the GTO and stuffing that big 400 in the Firebird, he hired them while he was head of Pontiac simply because they were Rebels and would do stuff they weren't supposed to do, he knew just never said anything in order to let it happen.

[@mbd501]

I grew up in the heyday of the Firebird and Trans Am of the 70s and 80s, so I still think of Pontiac as the performance division of GM. I always liked Trans Ams better than Camaros or Mustangs.

[@spod2998]

I think it's worth noting two things about the 1980s Pontiac: for one, the 6000 actually held up against Mercedes and BMW. It received several awards from '84 - '87, and got ABS and AWD options for 1987 buyers, but was plagued with quality control issues like most other GMs of the era. Second is that the J2000, or 2000 Sunbird, or just Sunbird (they changed the name three times in three years, lol) had an awful start, which is why the car didn't sell too well, but had a turbocharged I4 option starting in 1984 which did bring some buyers back. It was actually a pretty powerful engine at the time, but ran hot and again, faced quality control problems, namely rusting issues.

[@davinp]

Pontiac had just rebadged Chevy, Buick or Oldsmobile but the Pontiac was the sportier version

[@jeffanderson3962]

Its almost as if the people who came up with the Aztek were on a little bit of the blue stuff....

[@alext8828]

Ha! I was looking for a Walter White comment. They must have thought everyone and his brother wanted to go camping. Management managed them right out of business. Probably drove home in Mercs.

[@TheREALOC1972]

I knew Bunkie Knudson, which is pronounced "Nude-son" btw, I his Great granddaughter Susan was my High School Sweetheart, and He knew..... contrary to the popular belief and folklore from GM publicly, he knew what the guys at Pontiac was doing, people forget that he was the President of Pontiac before he became the President of GM, While at Pontiac he hired Pete Estes from Oldsmobile and John Delorian from Packard to do EXACTLY what they did while Pontiac in the mid and late 60's. When he took over at GM he moved the Pontiac Division out of the buildings they were in to the back of engineering compound on purpose, out of sight out of mind, on purpose.

[@alext8828]

Skunkworks II.

[@keithgray6920]

I've always liked Pontiacs, owning a 75 Formula 350 and a 05 G6 GT with a panoramic roof. Loved both cars!

[@manher4335]

What saddens me is that 3rd gen Firebirds were nothing more than reskined Camaros by that point until the end.

[@CJColvin]

Not to mention that the 3rd and 4th gen Firebirds look extremely hideous and ugly compared to the beautiful 1st and 2nd gen Firebirds and Trans-AMs.

[@Romiman1]

Not only the 3rd gen.

[@bucklinoutdoorpowerequipme3846]

You mentioned the Chevy Citation. I had an 80 Citation with the 2.5 4 cylinder with a 2 barrel carburetor with a 4 speed manual transmission. Run like a striped ass ape. Was never beaten by another 4 cylinder in a race flat out. Not even a 2002 Honda CRX could keep up with it. That car had spirt. Plus if I said out of it it got 40mpg all day long. Damn I miss that car. I parked it because reverse was almost out of it. And my sister's boyfriend at the time stole it and sold it for scrap while I was driving an 18wheeler. Along with 15 other cars I had.

[@bobcarlino7280]

"Striped ass ape"? Love it!!!!

[@richarderickson8840]

Learned to drive in parents 1965 Catalina station wagon, White with green interior. then I crushed back passenger side door leaving the carwash. Dad never let me drive his stuff again. Thanks for your content.

[@CJColvin]

Hey Jon, we had a 2001 Pontiac Grand Prix GT and it was a really nice sporty FWD sedan that can take corners pretty well and lasted about 5 years then after that it started to fall apart.

[@andrewdonohue1853]

we still have a 97 and it hasnt fallen apart. it's 27 years old but we did buy it with 36K on it, old lady's car. currently it has 54K on it. it's needed some minor repairs, nothing driveline related. i coat it heavily with fluid film to keep the rust monster away.

[@CJColvin]

@@andrewdonohue1853 Awesome brother

[@johnnymason2460]

I'm glad Knight Rider got a mention here. That show helped the Firebird sell so much better. It made me interested in having a Trans Am. I actually still want one.

[@AllCarswithJon]

I think they're still great looking cars, but that could be my childhood speaking! :)

[@MisterMikeTexas]

It was sad to see Pontiac go. If the brand were to be revived, it unfortunately would likely be all-EV like the new Hummer.

[@AllCarswithJon]

We've all got to face up to it.... they all will be soon.

[@draymanil]

Awesome video. I’ve owned a couple antique pontiacs and loved them

[@lonnyjaw]

We bought a brand new 2004 Pontiac Grand Am GT 2 door coupe with the 'Ram Air' and we still have it. For the most part it's pretty reliable and it 'rocks' as far as performance. We've already had a couple of people asking if we would sell it.

[@holykingfish]

Great video. Canadian Pontiac Parisienne is pronounced Parry-she-anne. Which is what you would call something from Paris, France.

[@AllCarswithJon]

I know. I've had many comments that I got it wrong. :)

[@mbd501]

Par-ee-zee-enne. Its French for Parisian.

[@alext8828]

Make it -zhe- and you got it.

[@rogersmith5292]

My favorite Pontiac is the 68 tempest overhead cam 6 cylinder with the 3 speed munsey.

[@davidtucker3729]

Pontiac fan forever. Thanks Jon

[@AllCarswithJon]

my pleasure.

[@warrenny]

Agree with you that at the time Pontiac was cancelled, it could not do anything that could not be done by another brand: extra power, extra luxury, etc. That could all be added to any GM brand. I haven't fully delved into all of your videos but I still think the biggest question is why was GMC allowed remain? When I was growing up GMC was barely a recognized brand name. It's the same product. She is a hack. She is being paid to sell brand new

[@AllCarswithJon]

I think GMC was allowed for 2 very basic reasons. 1. Many (most?) dealerships were Pontiac, Buick, GMC. With Pontiac being cancelled GMC served as the "Truck" option for people going to Buick dealerships. :) 2. Money. GM designs a new truck for Chevy, then sells a similar version at GMC, typically for more $$$. GMC trucks are a cash cow for GM, adding sales that may not automatically go to Chevy.

[@warrenny]

@@AllCarswithJon I did find your video on GMC. I had no idea that GMC was that old. I suppose it was/is a popular brand and I just never knew it.

[@johnnymason2460]

​@@AllCarswithJon I don't buy your second reason. Chevrolet is now able to sell more upscale and luxury trucks and be absolutely profitable. There is no reason for GMC to exist anymore. Chevrolet can sell them for less money which could mean more sales.

[@charlie_nolan]

I think actually in the 90s and 2000s, Pontiac made some very cool cars, even if most were somewhat badge-engineered or imports. Such as GXP trim cars, the imported GTO, etc

[@cotlessskate4385]

Honestly its sad my generation missed the glory of Pontiac, there were so cool, jesus the Firebird T/A and the GTO, its sadness not being able to enjoy this brand as it should be

[@alext8828]

Point of interest. A friend of mine got hold of a '54 Pontiac convertible with a 4-speed Hydramatic transmission. The neck-snapping 1-2 shift would occur in the middle of an intersection. And second gear was no slouch either. It was the straight-eight version. Those transmissions became legendary. Nothing was faster. I don't know if any other GM car utilized them.

[@andrewdonohue1853]

i love my 2 pontiac cars. i just wont get rid of them. i have a 2003 bonneville SSEi (love this car) i wont drive in the winter. it has SOME rust underneath but i bought it before the previous owner finished destroying it. it has been parked for the last 3 winters and the rust really hasnt gotten any worse. i also treat the car with fluid film. i hope i can keep it for a long time, the body is gorgous..... no gas filler area rot (where the 10th generation bonneville rusted out badly). we also have a nice 97 grand prix L36 3800 which is my wife's car. we dont have a choice but to drive it in the winter, but it gets coated heavily with fluid film. i cant park them both in the winter, but the 97 is solid and still has complete rocker panels. most people treat these cars like garbage, just drive them and do nothing to prevent or stop rust. i try everything in my power to keep them nice. i do NOT like GM offerings anymore, and for the 1st time in my life i bought a new car so i can keep the bonneville OUT of the salt. i bought a subaru crosstrek 6 speed manual.

[@michaelgagne2871]

Gratuit video! I never knew G5 were only sold as coups in US. In Canada, we had a 4 door variant.

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

My Grandfather was a Pontiac man .. In fact my folks still own the 75 Grand Prix LJ that was my Grandfather's last car... We take it to a few shows a year....

[@bobfeller604]

My parents had a '66 Bonneville and my dad said it was a terrific car.

[@johnh2514]

Thanks for another good video. At the time of the GM bankruptcy, I rooted for Pontiac’s survival, but in hindsight it just made sense to go. Sadly, it’s renaissance came at least 5 years too late.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the comment - and what I found is that I had agreed with you, their renaissance was cut short I thought, but in hindsight it was scattershot products that looked good on paper, but the rest of the line up was same-old, same-old. I now think it was less "renaissance" and more likely "death throws".

[@harrytran1874]

GM killed off brands like Pontiac, Saturn, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Holden, etc. Then GM brought Hummer from the dead.

[@RoadRunnergarage8570]

You could say the same for Plymouth and Mercury near their ends too.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Don't tell anyone I'm doing a Plymouth one right now, and yeah... I can say the same thing. :)

[@johnlavender242]

My favorite memory of Pontiac is learning to drive a stick on a 1949 Pontiac Straight Eight in 1964.

[@tonystidham4564]

It's interesting that despite some cool cars, Pontiac never had a one million vehicle sales year in its history, but got real close a few times

[@WayneMemphisMojo]

Thanks for doing this video on Pontiac. I've only owned 1 Pontiac (T-1000 Chevette clone). My ONLY complaint about Pontiacs which may only apply to their late model cars ... those red dashboard lights & gages, I never liked that.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for sharing

[@carrsllccarrillo6507]

Every GM manufacture had different color instrumentation. Red was distinct to Pontiac for many years.

[@gordonwallin2368]

Cheers from the Pacific West Coast of Canada.

[@FoxKing388]

I’m subscribed to your channel dude and I gotta say I’m interested in all the old car history stuff you talk about I always had a interest in cars 🚗

[@AllCarswithJon]

Hope you enjoy it! Glad you're here!

[@FoxKing388]

@@AllCarswithJon oh I’m staying because I wanna hear everything about every car brand history because it’s interesting 🤔

[@rt_goblin_hours]

I grew up in a Pontiac grand am we did a roadtrip across the country in. Only issues was it overheating lol

[@ryanhildebrand8658]

My first car was a red 90 Sunbird SE with pop-up headlights. It was a looker. It never gave me one problem. My second car was a burgandy 92 Grand Am. It looked nice but it was in the shop every month for something big. I came to a stop once and it crapped out. Come to find out, 3 of the motor mounts had fallen off, so the entire engine thrusted forward into the radiator. It busted the fan blades that shot fragments everywhere damaging more of the engine. My dad paid to fix it once again. Finally the head gasket blew. I begged him to not fix it and let it go to the junkyard finally. He let it finally die. It was the worst car I owned with a 95 Accord a close 2nd place.

[@SeaTravelr123]

Hi Jon. Great presentation, looking to hear more. Pontiac did lose its way, But I still think they had some of the sharpest cars Even through the malaise years. I own 7 classics. 63-75. Big guns. Bonnevilles and Grand Villes. Also had a Vibe 365K before I decide to trade it, and I still miss it. Aztek was ugly, but well thought out. I always liked them. But the cheap materials at the time did them in. Would have been interesting to see them sell the name plate and see where fresh ideas would have taken it.

[@georgewilson1184]

I do miss Pontiac & Olds

[@CJColvin]

The 04-06 GTOs are not even real Pontiacs, they're nothing but rebadged Holden Monaros from Australia mate just like the 08-09 G8s are nothing but rebadged Holden Commodores as well.

[@michaellong6336]

Great job. Perfect length. Great assessment

[@AllCarswithJon]

Much appreciated!

[@darinrodriguez8551]

I had 77 Firebird Formula it was my second car at age 17 n I loved it big block 400

[@devonmask5192]

The Parisienne (Par-eez-ee-en) was an emergency rush job, after Pontiac made the same mistake Chrysler did in '62 by going too far into downsizing. The mid sized LeMans was made a Bonneville and bombed as full size cars started to sell better again, hence the Canadian Pontiacized Chevy. Could have also included: The 4 cylinder Tempests rope driveshaft (the slant 4 had MAJOR balance/vibration issues, which the flex shaft kinda helped mask). Endura front end for the '68 GTO was also a big deal (and I believe captured a fourth MT Car of the Year spot). The Super Duty 455 was a clever (if somewhat illegal) last gasp of a musclecar engine, creating Trans Ams and Formulas that could stand square with most 60's muscle cars.

[@gregcrabb3497]

Glad you put the proper pronunciation. That always irks me...the same way people mispronounce Porsche (por-shuh)...the "e" is not silent.

[@harrytran1874]

The Bonneville name started on the 1954 Pontiac Bonneville Special. Pontiac added Pontiac G3 in the US but, Pontiac G3 Wave Hatchback, Pontiac Wave Sedan in Canada but, it's a rebadged the Chevy Aveo. The Pontiac models exclusive for Canada are Pontiac Pathfinder, Pontiac Strato Chief convertible, Pontiac Sunburst, Pontiac Tempest, Pontiac Sunrunner, Pontiac Firefly, etc. Also, Pontiac in South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Middle East, Mexico, etc. Pontiac tried bringing the Sportwagon, Ute in the US as a Pontiac G8 Sportwagon, Pontiac G8 ST ( Sport Truck ). Pontiac made the cool concept car based on the Chevy C3 Corvette as the Pontiac Banshee Concept but, axed by GM. You don't think Pontiac coming back but, no one thought GM bringing back the Hummer from the dead under the GMC as a GMC Hummer. I think GM bringing back the Pontiac from the dead under the Chevy as a Chevy Pontiac.

[@CJColvin]

Also Pontiac in 60s made some Canadian sub-brand as well like Acadian and Beaumont.

[@pto200]

Enjoy your videos. Very complete and fair information. Do you have a video on what happened to Dodge trucks?

[@AllCarswithJon]

No. I've often thought about doing one, especially when they made the jump to 'mini-kenworth" bodystyle, but I've never taken that task on.

[@pto200]

@@AllCarswithJon Well then, i would appreciate your consideration. Thank you

[@allanbeller529]

You did a great job, but overlooked the stillborn Pontiac Banshee that was the inspiration for the 1968 Corvette Stingray. Its been said that GM gave the Firebird to Pontiac as a consolation prize for sacrificing the Banshee to Chevy. Another overlooked Pontiac was the 1987 front drive Bonneville that received rave reviews and was a sales success, which replaced the `1984-87 midsized rear drive model. Subsequent Bonnevilles didn't get the same press nor were as successful. The downfall of Pontiac was that after about 1988 Pontiac lost its stylistic edge, and by the late 1990s/2000s their cars were as bland on the outsides as Oldsmobiles, while their misguided attempts at sporty-swoopy dashboards as described by Bob Lutz, looked like someone poured a blob of molten plastic into the car through the open sunroof..

[@AllCarswithJon]

I'd never heard that Lutz quote before, but I love it. :)

[@vladtheimpala5532]

The malaise era made it hard to build excitement. Pontiac gave it a shot though. I like the 60 Bonneville and the 64-70 GTO. The Tempest with the transmission in the rear was innovative. When Pontiac got the Corvair platform, DeLorean didn’t want to do just another knock off of a Chevy so he went to the drawing board and came up with a winner that didn’t get the attention it deserved. Other than that, I agree with you. Pontiac didn’t have enough of its own unique identity. With a few notable exceptions Pontiac built boredom.

[@captainofiron]

So many times Pontiac could have revolutionized GM but it's awesome ideas were always killed, Banshee, the original Trans Am 302, the original idea of the Turbo V8.

[@vox1966]

I own 4 Fieros and a 1997 trans am convertible love pontiac

[@tommywatterson5276]

Do a series on Olds history too unless you already have.

[@wiiambarnarx8485]

Is he going to mention the Pontiac Pheonix? That was a good looking car. I think it had issues though. I dont know enough about it to comment, does anyone know the history of the Pheonix??

[@bobcarlino7280]

In the early '70's, Pontiac came out with their version of the Chevrolet Nova; they called it the Ventura II. Interestingly, the "performance" version of that car was called the GTO...much to the dismay of GTO purists. Mid-year in 1977, Pontiac created their version of a luxury Ventura II and called it the Phoenix. Given that Ventura II sales never amounted to much, in model year '78 the Ventura II name was dropped and all versions of the car were named Phoenix. I had a '78 coupe with the 305 under the hood. It was a good car, but within 3 years of purchasing it brand new, the paint was completely shot despite frequent washing and waxing. The Nova-based Phoenix was dropped at the end of the '79 model year, then in 1980 the name was transferred to Pontiac's version of the Chevrolet Citation (the often-recalled and much-maligned X-body cars). When the X-body cars went away in the mid-80's, Pontiac finally retired the Phoenix name. For what it's worth, I feel that Pontiac utilized some really great model names over the years...Bonneville, Star Chief, Catalina, Grand Prix, Firebird, etc.

[@timothyhays1817]

It seems like GM like moving the Pontiac General Managers over to Chevrolet. Knudson, DeLorean and John Middlebrook. The last was at Pontiac when was I at the Pontiac Roadside Assistance center in the early 90's.

[@drakbar5957]

Brand engineering begets boring automobiles that eventually disappear. Pontiac had its 15 minutes in the spotlight, but there are few today who remember that time.

[@dancurtis611]

Anyone else wonder what might have been if you could have ordered a Trans Am with the Buick Regal Grand National turbocharged V6 under the hood? Yeah, me too.

[@timblaes7028]

60's Ponchos were great, lost it after 72

[@georgewilson1184]

WHY did all automakers abandon the COUPE segment of the car market

[@jeffanderson3962]

Bought a '88 Lemans hatchback for $550 in 2000 as my first car (well the first after I had my license anyway). Drove it for 3 years so I'd say I got a good deal.

[@wiiambarnarx8485]

Your crazy! Pontiacs were very good looking cars and not boring. Theirs cars performed and styling was one of a kind awesome! Has anyone ever told you that you look boring??

[@AllCarswithJon]

Frequently.

[@jim7700]

i always liked Pontiacs

[@georgekostician3229]

I like the fact you did this video but once you got to the 80’s you said the 6000 STE came for 84 I think you got the celebrity eurosport mixed up with the STE because STE came for 83 and the celebrity eurosport came in 84 but other than that it’s a good video

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the comment. I'd have to re-listen to be sure but I probably just mis-spoke (or noted it wrong to begin with!). Honestly, if that's the only mistake I'm thrilled! :)

[@georgekostician3229]

@@AllCarswithJon that’s the only one I caught and normally I wouldn’t say anything but I do have a 1983 Pontiac 6000 STE in my driveway and a lot of people actually think the STE came for 84 but the only thing that came for 84 on STE was the black paint and the Digital gauge cluster but other than that not much is changed for 85 the 2.8 V6 went multiport fuel injected and 86 it got a new front end and 88 they added a AWD option to the STE making it the first and only car on the A-body car line to have AWD as a option as you can see I’m a big fan of the 6000 and a lot of FWD GM cars from the 80’s

[@aguerra1381]

'84 STE had an awesome dashboard.

[@blumobean]

Pontiac, some of the most beautiful cars ever made, and some of the crappiest ever produced. I owned a 1977 Grand Prix, absolutely beautiful light metallic green. Came from the factory with a broken spark plug, and went through the dealership shop (supposedly). Wife drove it home, then I drove it. Took it to the dealership the next day. Asked the shop manager about that huge red Sun test machine, said it must have cost a young fortune. He said yes it was expensive, and I told him they should sell it. He was shocked when I said that my car had a broken spark plug, and they must not know how to use it. Later oil started pouring out of the rear seal. Worse car I have ever owned.

[@daveridgeway2639]

In 1966, the Pontiac GTO hit it's all time sales peak. I would say, just about the most popular High Performance Automobile (Muscle Car) sold for 1966. Please reply. Dave...

[@Chris-mi5ff]

Nice. I really liked the Sunfire in red, very cool for a compact, was ready to buy one just after they were foolishly discontinued, it was like a smaller, less expensive Firebird, which I also always wanted after changing from the Smokey-Bandit style to the Knight Rider styles. For your info you butchered the pronunciation of Parisienne (my dad had two in the 60's, covertibles), failed to mention the Beaumont. The Fiero looked very similar to one of the experimental designs you showed with the mid-frame engine and pointy nose with blunt tail. They were a good brand, sad to be discontinued...

[@AllCarswithJon]

Thanks for the comment. The Sunfire my first wife and I looked at was something like "purple". and also a very base level. Not appealing. :) Yes, yes... I know. I swear to you the pronounciation I used for Parisienne was what I heard growing up in my specific area of the South. I've heard about it.... trust me! :)

[@Chris-mi5ff]

@@AllCarswithJon Thanks for your reply! Can you do a video about the Durant Co., who had a factory in the small town I was raised in? Or the MacLachlan, which I believe was the last all-Canadian car made before the Canada-US Auto Pact?

[@bucklinoutdoorpowerequipme3846]

I had a 65 Grand Prix. But I never got to drive it. As grandpa put a new water pump in it. He put the gasket in wrong. It suverly overheated and it lost power. I was in the process of rebuilding the engine when life got in the way.

[@kmyre]

Pontiac Parisienne as in Parisian / from the city of Paris, France

[@AllCarswithJon]

Really? I've always heard it mangeled like "par-see-neen"

[@kmyre]

@@AllCarswithJon yupp :) check out the KZbin channel Rare Classic Cars and Automotive history. The host, Adam, has some grade A material on the Parisienne. He owns a 1959.

[@vassa1972]

Loved the brand

[@georgewilson1184]

I wanted my own dealership Pontiac Oldsmobile GMC truck

[@Alexs23743]

Make some noise! Pontiac is back!!! ...in Minecraft, if I ever decide to play the game. D:

[@justinrovers1]

You kinda said the sunfire was a good car…. I assume you haven’t driven/seen one… they are depression with tyres.

[@AllCarswithJon]

Drove a friends one back in the day with a turbo. Was a hoot. Of course, it also had the windshield wiper come off on the interstate in a rainstorm and proceed to gouge his windshield not long after that.

[@justinrovers1]

@@AllCarswithJon thank you!! i had a friend get rearended in one, and both headlites shot out like a cannon about 100m

[@Project_Low_Expectations]

I got my drivers license in 1990… so the cars that were new at that point were mostly front wheel drive, and since I was more of a GM guy, there were only a few platforms with different flavors on top. Chevy was the normal flavor, the common… the standard. Olds and Buick were mostly old people stuff… bland flavor. Caddy was an unobtainable, fancy flavor. Pontiac… Pontiac was SPICY… Even though we all knew that for the best part it was all the same crap underneath, the Pontiac always felt, and looked… better. A Z28 is cool, but a Trans-Am, that was bad ass. Didn’t matter, they usually had a 305 and the owner would swear up and down it was a 350. The Grand Am was WAY cooler than ANY of its lesser styled N car siblings. Even the front wheel drive cutlas was cooler than the other A body models. Who else dared to lie to the HMFIC and call the fiero an economy car… no one else had the nads to even try building a mid engine sporty car. Even though we knew it was the same woman with a different color wig… she looked better as a spicy redhead. But GM had to dilute the models down even more. They got rid of the wigs, no more spicy red, no more blondes, just blah brunettes with some gray coming out… for the best part, unless you were paying attention you couldn’t tell what model you were looking at. For a while there, in 06 to about 2010, I thought GM was going to get rid of ALL brands, (except caddy of course) and turn it into, the GM models. All under one name, under one roof. I miss Pontiac. Not what it was when GM shot it in the back of the head… I miss the Pontiac from the late 50’s till the late 90’s. When Pontiac was like Chevy, only better.

[@jonathanhaines5342]

Owned all well kept older pontiacs, now I’ve moved on to some dodges. I personally feel I don’t owe any loyalty to gm for the sure death they put upon pontiac in the early 80’s.

[@lawrencesmith.]

As an aside, I 'passed' on buying a new Pontiac Solstice in favor of the Saturn Sky. Sadly, they were both doomed.😞

[@Matthew.R.Gaglio]

My first car was an Oldsmobile Achieva and my second was a convertible Pontiac G6. The convertible version of the G6 was nicer and more fun than the standard four door version. But the corporate mindset at GM has really destroyed any of the uniqueness and personality the cars had. After the bailout I just became completely disgusted with the company and I refuse to ever buy another GM.

[@mikearbon6196]

Why do you never hear anything about the Pontiac Catalina?

[@stuckinmygarage6220]

Hello, Jon, Am I wrong? Who said it first? @11:20. Listen very carefully...🙂

[@wiiambarnarx8485]

I've had a Pontiac Lemans, Sunbird, Firebird, Grand Prix's, 2 of them. I enjoyed everyone of them and I wish Pontiac was still around, I'd probably have one. They should have killed Oldsmobile first. Except for the Cutlass 442 Olds was boring.