A healthy Mormon and Christian Debate at Salt Lake Temple Square with host Dave Bartosiewicz

Craig, a faithful Mormon, shares his views with two Christian believers on heaven and hell and many other topics with Dave Bartosiewicz, Have You Experienced Jesus..If you would like to see another Christian/Mormon debate go to: • A Friendly Christian/M... . Mark and I have done a series of videos that will help with answering Mormonism. What is the Priesthood of God? • What is the Priesthood... . What is the Biblical views of Eternal Marriages and Eternal Families: • What is the Biblical T... . What is the Biblical Truth of the Pre-existence: • Is there Biblical Trut... . How is One made Righteous, through Faith or Works?: • How is One made Righte... . Who is the Biblical Jesus?: • Who is the Biblical Je... .
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[@fknthng]

i think this video shows we can have a calm respectful conversation about beliefs without hateful words or actions..

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Mormon Brothers and Sisters I was raised in the LDS church, went on a 2 year mission and served in the Mormon church for many years. I left the church for many reasons, one of which is that the LDS church has purposed to mis-lead it’s faithful members with false histories and teachings of the church since its inception. (Go to CesLetters.org) for more information. Along with this truth and many other changes in the church history you can find many discrepancies in the journal of discourses and many other sources on the Internet today that are available. You can research the truth on the internet, look up CES letters also look up Mormon history with the BLACK people., josephlied.org.etc.. Today the LDS church is trying to cover up their actual history and reach out to organizations such as the NAACP to gain favor and whitewash actual true history of the church. This along with many other historical church histories actually written by LDS authorities have proven that the LDS church is NOT true. You will find out for yourself as you ask questions and do your research. Please understand as you wake up to the actual truth, that Jesus is simply waiting for you to have a True Real Saving relationship with you and your loved ones. Jesus Truly Loves You Unconditionally not by your works John 3:16-17 Please do not be mis-led by the church and it’s paid leadership. Their is Freedom in a True relationship with Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Isaiah 43:10 Jesus said before me there were no Gods and there will never be any God’s after me ..... which contradicts what the Mormons teach that you can become a God Go to :: Www.JesusIsThePlan.com Research these topics and you will find out the truth about this Wolf in Sheep’s clothing Faith Organization. CES Letters Mormon True Black History Joseph Smith Polygamy truth Book of Mormon was copied from the 1769 King James Version from the Bible Www.Josephlied.com Grant Palmer testimony Grantpalmer.net Journal of Discourses by Joseph Smith Www.Mormonstories.com Www.Mormonthink.com We can only enter the gates of Heaven through a True relationship with Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Find a Bible led local Christian church that Follows Christ’s teachings and you will be Saved and find a Peace like you have never felt before. Feel free to contact me [e-mail] For my whole life I have struggled with addiction‘s physical mental spiritual addictions I was raised in a cult served in the cult and when I found the cult was a lie I left the cult but it was not until I found Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior that I finally found peace and contentment in my life and hope for tomorrow Jesus wants to come into our heart and fill us full of his hope love joy and peace even when the world says no WWW.Jesusistheplan.com Feel free to email me anytime if you just want to talk and have somebody to listen [e-mail] Find a Bible led local Christian church that Follows Christ’s teachings and you will be Saved and find a Peace like you have never felt before. [e-mail]

[@calvinwilburn2619]

@@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547 Thank you for this post.

[@richardholmes7199]

@@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547 Why are you posting lies?

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Calvin Wilburn You are welcome brother how was your walk going are you a Mormon

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Richard Holmes Thank you for responding Richard what lies in my posting if you can be specific maybe we can talk about them

[@smartin700]

That young man is sharp and knows the Scriptures! More of us should dig and know the Word as we are called to be ready to give an answer to what we believe.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

There is no greater Love than the Love I have for my Savoir, Jesus Christ. I lift Him up and declare that He is the only One that Heals my Heart and gives me the greatest Joy. There is no organization, no family member, no spouse, no child, no money, no vacation, nothing of any other substance that can give me greater Joy than the love of my Savior. It will be Him who I will run to when I past over to the other side. It will be Him who I will bow down to and shed such great tears of joy to. It will be Him who I will declare He is the Only One who I've truly loved. It will be Him who I will kiss with my lips on His loving marks of His hands and feet. I declare this day, He is the Only One I've totally love, the One who Saved me and has given me eternal life. Thank you Jesus, Thank you Lord. How I love you...

[@DominicManfredonia]

So much comfort in your comment. Thanks man Godbless

[@yukio9419]

Dear Mike, Are you a Mormon or Christian ? Just asking... I'm a Christian charismatic .

[@Taylor_Made087]

you have a mental illness and i feel sad for you

[@dawnwilliams3839]

Yukio Mee there is no difference between a Mormon and a Christian, we both worship the same God, The same Jesus Christ (thus making us Christians too) and we feel of the Holy Spirit!

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Dawn, if you believe that you worship the same God and the same Jesus Christ, than why do biblical christians think otherwise? Do you know why they state what they state?

[@tyndale25]

I am looking forward to this weekend. I think I shall start it off with a visit to one of the LDS temples today. I love the spirit I feel inside those hallowed walls. It just helps me focus on and appreciate the sacrifice that my Savior Jesus Christ made for me even more. What a blessing.

[@krametorgsite]

Yes that zombie-like spirit of boredom Zzzzzzzzz. What a "blessing". He who has survived on a diet of spam would have no idea what a Filet Mignon tastes like.

[@sarahfisher9472]

Thank you for your comment!!!

[@sarahfisher9472]

The one up above

[@larrymcclain8874]

Acts 17:24-25

[@krametorgsite]

QUESTIONS FOR MORMONS #2. Where in the Book of Mormon does it teach that Elohim was once a mortal man and was not always God?

[@yaruqadishi8326]

It doesn't teach it they have to twist what it says with sickness later opinions and even in the early section of DNC it even shows a god-belief instead of a satanic man devil belief or even try to do evil against dead people which it didn't happen Smith invented this s*** later on the damn people who were dead or or you're okay or free without it or else.

[@abigail_joy]

9 years later and no one has replied

[@krametorgsite]

_"Now that faith has come, we are no longer under the supervision of the law"_ (Gal. 3:25) unless you're Mormon. That's why the LDS have rules, rules and more rules because their is no freedom in the LDS. If you join them, they own you.

[@maxboucher86]

Props to the young guys here, they can quote their scriptures really well. its nice to see the young generation know their bible so well.

[@simpsonsangel]

Let the Latter-day Saint man talk!! He has a right to speak! Stop interrupting him!

[@prayunceasingly2029]

Unfortunately I agree. Even if I dislike what he says he shouldn't have the mic withdrawn halfway through a sentence.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

@@prayunceasingly2029 yes but this evil lies that they they repeat again and again need to be trampled out and refuted handily again and again thought that everyone lie no one will get that way you can't say everyone we can't get anyone he wanted to part of that so he doesn't know what that word means no one will come to that there is no chances either makes himself to anybody or everybody in the real sense already or Christianity is false altogether in Jesus is fake and by the way they can't just people do know them or don't know him can disappear to him or really appear before him and judgment and he sends them to Hell or Heaven if they choose not to have him or not why you say tank hellish ordinances that are made up by man they're against God and Jesus that's the evils of this moron cult they must be stopped immediately and I'm done all their evil must be undone

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Mormon Brothers and Sisters I was raised in the LDS church, went on a 2 year mission and served in the Mormon church for many years. I left the church for many reasons, one of which is that the LDS church has purposed to mis-lead it’s faithful members with false histories and teachings of the church since its inception. (Go to CesLetters.org) for more information. Along with this truth and many other changes in the church history you can find many discrepancies in the journal of discourses and many other sources on the Internet today that are available. You can research the truth on the internet, look up CES letters also look up Mormon history with the BLACK people., josephlied.org.etc.. Today the LDS church is trying to cover up their actual history and reach out to organizations such as the NAACP to gain favor and whitewash actual true history of the church. This along with many other historical church histories actually written by LDS authorities have proven that the LDS church is NOT true. You will find out for yourself as you ask questions and do your research. Please understand as you wake up to the actual truth, that Jesus is simply waiting for you to have a True Real Saving relationship with you and your loved ones. Jesus Truly Loves You Unconditionally not by your works John 3:16-17 Please do not be mis-led by the church and it’s paid leadership. Their is Freedom in a True relationship with Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Isaiah 43:10 Jesus said before me there were no Gods and there will never be any God’s after me ..... which contradicts what the Mormons teach that you can become a God Go to :: Www.JesusIsThePlan.com Research these topics and you will find out the truth about this Wolf in Sheep’s clothing Faith Organization. CES Letters Mormon True Black History Joseph Smith Polygamy truth Book of Mormon was copied from the 1769 King James Version from the Bible Www.Josephlied.com Grant Palmer testimony Grantpalmer.net Journal of Discourses by Joseph Smith Www.Mormonstories.com Www.Mormonthink.com We can only enter the gates of Heaven through a True relationship with Jesus Christ. John 14:6 Find a Bible led local Christian church that Follows Christ’s teachings and you will be Saved and find a Peace like you have never felt before. Feel free to contact me [e-mail] For my whole life I have struggled with addiction‘s physical mental spiritual addictions I was raised in a cult served in the cult and when I found the cult was a lie I left the cult but it was not until I found Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior that I finally found peace and contentment in my life and hope for tomorrow Jesus wants to come into our heart and fill us full of his hope love joy and peace even when the world says no WWW.Jesusistheplan.com Feel free to email me anytime if you just want to talk and have somebody to listen [e-mail] Find a Bible led local Christian church that Follows Christ’s teachings and you will be Saved and find a Peace like you have never felt before. [e-mail]

[@lesterrivers8804]

Jesus Is The Plan There is No Plan B welcome to true Christianity brother .

[@selinaogorman8380]

I was Mormon and yes exactly everything you have said is the whole truth on what Mormons and most will cover up to protect the church and its leaders it’s very sad thank you Jesus for saving me.🙏🏻

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Lester Rivera thank you my friend I have never felt so much peace before living a lie now that I abide in truth I feel the peace of Jesus every day in my heart and I am content what are your feelings about what is going on in the world today

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Selina OGorman thank you for getting back to me my friend I am so happy to hear that you are free from the bondage of the church as well what was it that made you question and eventually leave the church God bless

[@jesusistheplanthereisnopla5547]

Lester Rivera Thank you my brother the piece the Lord Jesus Christ gives me grows each and every day in the containment I feel I cannot explain even during these crazy times we are living in how are you and how is your walk

[@jamesbews6049]

WOW talk about a witch hunt on the LDS guy!! Thought he handled himself very well

[@matthewrudolph3514]

Yeah he did but I don’t see any of supported in the Bible

[@yaruqadishi8326]

@@matthewrudolph3514 there's zero zip sell she's making up his own false satanic doctor in that Smith pulled out of his ass and he's just repeating it at homonym he's not realizing the evil words he spews without consciousness

[@matthewwoodworth4805]

Craig did such an amazing job! Nice to see a loving respectful conversation

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

. And ultimately Mormons desire to be a god

[@christopherfoote4643]

I don't know how accurate that is. It is probably fair to imply that the doctrine supports the principle if exaltation, or living with God. That would imply a fullness of his grace, therefore he determines the condition that qualifies or disqualifies an individual for salvation. Conditional upon obedience. Therefore exaltation is essential to the condition of salvation. Joint heirs with Jesus who sacrificed all for that purpose. We can't attain it but we can reach to a level from which otherwise would be impossible other than for his infinite grace. Clearly that gives a person like myself who doesn't qualify upon my own merits nevertheless can secure a full measure of salvation by grace. Obviously grace is essential.

[@PUROROCK327]

WC, I would highly recommend reading Dr. Norman Geislers' 'The Doctrine of God'. He draws much from St. Thomas Aquinas and Aristotle in philosophy, including the Bible of course, to show how we as people can know God, as He has revealed Himself. There are some basic understandings and necessities (such has God's NECESSITY in fact) of God, like His attributes, essence and nature that must be adhered to otherwise the concept and reality of who God is, including His revelation to us in His Word falls, fails and can be mocked and destroyed. I urge you to read with a prayerfully open heart and mind; then read the Bible passages he cites. Consider it a dare, if you must, to refute me, but whatever gets you to understand God in a Christian (because you are a Christian, right?) apologetic sense of who God is and how EVEN you can give a defense for the hope that is in you (1 Peter 3:15). Once you have that understanding, you will see that the Mormon description of who God is is unfortunately erroneous and illogical. I'll be happy to bring up some points for you if you'd like in lieu of reading it, but I would start with God's PURE ACTUALITY (lack of POTENTIAL, i.e., He does not have parts) and His ASEITY.

[@PUROROCK327]

Not sure what you mean. I'm not talking about anything other than the basics of knowing who and what God is, through nature, reasoning and the Bible. I'm not rebelling against the LDS because I don't accept it, frankly. I can put up any claim or skepticism against the Bible and it stands, the Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith has a lot of skepticism that is fair to consider. I really don't care to argue or punch holes in your faith personally, that's not my job, I'm simply asking you to read up on some theology and see if it is true and then put it up against your Mormon beliefs. Do it yourself. And if it stands, great... if not... then prayerfully consider alternatives.

[@reubenscholtens5074]

Dave Bartosiewicz yeah they are wrong but there’s an opportunity to share the saving grace of Jesus with him. It would be helpful if you would shut up long enough for him to answer. You’ll win more hearts that way

[@reubenscholtens5074]

WC Umm, nope. As evidenced by the fact that the Mormon church itself is distancing itself from its more crazy beliefs and practices.

[@joshpeterson2451]

The LDS pastor has a few things that don't correspond with the Bible. First, where does he get the idea that we don't go into God's presence or to Sheol immediately upon death? Hebrews 9:27 says that it is appointed a man once to die and then the judgment. There's no intermediate second chance. His notion that there are multiple ways to salvations is also blatantly wrong. Jesus says in John 14:6 that there is no other way. That means, if you don't have faith in Jesus in life, there is no way you get to heaven. Also, you don't have to be physically baptized in order to be saved. The robber next to Jesus said that Jesus is sinless and asks Jesus to save him, and Jesus said he would be in heaven with Him. He was justified by his faith, not by his works or his baptism.

[@nunziawright5957]

this is interesting but I wish the interviwer would let the mormon man finish talking so we can actually understand his view. he just cut him off all the time

[@CrysDawn]

I agree he did but I think it was a time issue cause there was only so much time or something. When you interview 2 or more people in a serious topic as this you should allow more time so you can get both sides more equally. You can see the different answers between a Mormom and a Christian so we do see Mormons do NOT have the TRUE WORD OF GOD!! Pray they find the truth and the tryth set them free as well as many others who need truth to break those chains!!!!!!

[@johnmoses5968]

Ahhhhh you got us Mormons good, please tell me what basis you have for this claim.

[@Pren10]

Crys you do understand three points things right? 1. David records many videos but only posts the most staged/bias ones. 2. Mormons base their interpretations of the gospel doctrines on modern revelation given the belief that God still talks to prophets today. 3. If you don't accept the Book of Mormon then you have indeed rejected the Word Of God.

[@slamdunk406]

James Chapter 2 tells us “faith without works is dead.” This simply means we need to act upon our faith and put it to good use by helping to build up God’s kingdom. Us Latter-Day Saints too often associate works with baptism and other ordinances. That’s part of it, but I think what James is really saying is faith without acting upon it is of no use. Act upon your faith and have it affect how you go about your day to day life.

[@monocuco818]

@@johnathonsasser8174 Dude, Joseph Smith is dead... we follow the current living prophet and Jesus Christ's teachings. President Russel M. Nelson is the current prophet whom we sustain and follow as duly anointed from God.

[@ericsaxton6032]

Remember, Christian Jesus and Mormon Jesus are not the same. They have different attributes. Mormon Jesus is a created being. Christian Jesus is God of all time, not a created being. Very important.

[@andreacall3024]

The two young men being interviewed are great, as is the Mormon, but the interviewer is clearly biased. Although mostly respectful, he keeps putting words in the interviewees mouths and insinuating things, and he occasionally refuses to take clarification on the points he brings up. Altogether one of the nicer "debates" with Mormons I've seen, considering that most of the time these debates seem like one-sided ambushes.

[@dariofelix3077]

One of the nicer ones but still not good enough for you. That's crazy. You are biased I'm not a member of any church and I can see the old man had more time than anyone.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

@@dariofelix3077 the old man is deceived heavily no one's going to come across the more and cult they want any that at all.

[@mcculloughdakota]

I feel like this host "begs the question" a lot and shows a bit of his biases.

[@mcculloughdakota]

A bit pretentious maybe? That posture of his and his mannerisms are kind of offensive.

[@prayunceasingly2029]

We all have biases. Some are better at hiding them.

[@kjvjay]

Dave Bartosiewicz, you handled each of the interviews very well, including the interview with the elderly gentleman.

[@JAMES-wl2pd]

This was a great segment it showed us (everyone) that we don't serve the same God but in name only. One believes that we are saved by grace through faith and not by works lest no man should boast. On the other side they are saved after all they can do. There are two different views on salvation one side is temple works the other side the finished work on the cross.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

Exactly no one will come across moronism ever dead or alive.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

Hell building attacks evil that must all be immediately. Force them to undo all the evil occult attacks against any dead people.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

All that must be forced and I'm done and apologized with the dead alone they can't do against any people anymore thoughts because they do and to get the world to destroy them

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

I am getting tired of the constant fighting and badmouthing of people in this forum. I am banning people who I feel are ridiculing, being very demonstrative, using rude language and commenting in a prideful and ridiculing way. I'm tired of it. I've banned truthseeker and bomp. If I see more Mormons acting this way, I'll continue to ban you. This is my channel and I do desire openness and repect for other views. Got it?

[@stuartsc01]

@Dave Bartosiewicz....... I am getting tired of the constant fighting and badmouthing of people in this forum. I am banning people who I feel are ridiculing, being very demonstrative, using rude language and commenting in a prideful and ridiculing way. I'm tired of it. I've banned truthseeker and bomp. If I see more Mormons acting this way, I'll continue to ban you. This is my channel and I do desire openness and repect for other views. Got it? You're only going to ban Mormons??? Not people who disparage women.... referring to them as urinal cake makers and urinal scrubbers.... not to mention.... sexual objects for men??? JUST CHECKING.

[@krametorgsite]

That's what I did as well on my video. You'll be excoriated by the LDS on here for taking a stand. They are going to twist it and say you're only interested in the truth you want to hear. I guarantee it! But I didn't care. I banned rude so called "Christians" and atheists on my page too. Although I went beyond rudeness. I banned for deceit, people masquerading as "objective bystanders" but oddly only support or defend Mormons over a long period of time. These "bystanders" were so well equipped with all the pat LDS responses and doctrines but never did they once appear to feel the need to be objective against the LDS who sometimes did the things that accused of Christians. So that was obvious to me too and stuartsc01 started off like one of these people and I banned him for not admitting what he admits fully to here, that he is LDS. Sk8er408 was another. And then there's a few LDS who were obstructionists to truth like lindaLDS, WellsjDan and others ). There's also posers who use shell accounts and come back under assumed aliases. I never had an issue with robust debates where people are believing something different, but when others appeared to be having an open/honest discussion and one of these 6th Gen Mormons or Zealot Christians would come in and obfuscate, that was wrong and I would stop it. And I mean, blatant obfuscation. For example: Suppose you point out that Joseph Smith made a false prophecy about building a temple in Independence Missouri and they either try to avoid the topic altogether, or try to change the discussion away from that and make it about something else or out-n-out deny it. That's not difference of belief. That is an intentional act of deception that any history book could prove and that I did not tolerate. But I have nearly 15,000 comments on my page and only 2 people did that. I also did not tolerate people calling anyone stupid or idiots and any variation of the same! I gave 2 warnings and then I banned on the 3rd offense when that happened on both sides. And if they gave their word they wouldn't do it again, I restored the privileges to post. So regardless of your reasons, be ready for the attacks of the enemy, bro. BTW: See Stuart's response? Already they start with you. See the twisting they do. I'm the only one on here saying that God never intended for women to be relegated to be subservient slaves to men treating them no better than urinal cleaners and he calls ME the disparager of women. Wow! That is just beautiful!!! Money can't buy that kind of delicious irony! Bless you bro!

[@krametorgsite]

FYI - I would give them one more chance with a warning not to repeat that behavior. Than you're absolved from not being fair. You gave them a chance, after that, like on my video, they did it to themselves and would not abide by the rules of my page so I banned them.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

I can do that but I'm very aware of the comments that they make. I do sense that they do lie for their faith. It's loyalty to the max. But I am not here to help their side but to help people who do not know mormonism to be expose to the truths of it. If I see this attitude or disrespect, I will ban and have no problem doing that. I do enjoy your wisdom and truth. You and One way are profoundly amazing with your knowledge..God Bless.

[@krametorgsite]

Wonderful to hear your anchor is truth! You are a blessing to the kingdom, Dave. Keep spreading the Good News.

[@07nightingale]

I am a Christain . You can ridicule me. You can kill me. You can torture me. But you cannot change my mind. Psalm 18: 30-32 As for God, His way is blameless; The word of the LORD is tried; He is a shield to all who take refuge in Him. For who is God, but the LORD? And who is a rock, except our God, The God who girds me with strength And makes my way blameless?… Numbers 23:19 “God is not a man, that He should lie, nor a son of man, that He should change His mind. Does He speak and then not act? Does He promise and not fulfill?”

[@krametorgsite]

AMEN! Faith like that is unshakable.

[@Anabella1974]

Also watch Mormonism vs Christianity here on youtube. Its a very interesting documentary. It shares actual historical evidence and research. And yes, there IS a difference between Christianity and Mormonism. The bible is not a book of confusion, though Joseph Smith whose book was inspired in the 19th century wrote his book based on the idea of Moroni, an "angel". The bible says that in Galatians: "But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed." Galatians 1:8, 9. The Apostle Paul said this, and as you can see, he said it twice. The book of Mormon discounts the word of God by teaching Mormonism and having them believe that the bible is not ALL true for today when it is. They teach that there are other gospels of Jesus Christ...and there are not. Also, again, I would encourage both Christians and Mormons (yes, there is a tremendous difference) to watch a the documentary video here on youtube called 'Mormonism VS Christianity'. God bless you. Pray about what tradition and religion have taught you and where your faith in the God of the bible will bring you as He has big plans for all of us all :-)

[@richardholmes7199]

Google ''Debate: Richard Hopkins (Mormon) vs Robert Morey (Christian) youtube''. One will clearly see Hopkins won the debate.

[@stephanievigil2352]

All you do is interrupt the Mormon guy. This is obviously a very biased interview spun to try and discredit the LDS man. So very rude and unprofessional. This was not a healthy debate.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

+Stephanie Vigil Yes, the several times he had to ask the LDS man to "just be honest, it's ok" was interruptive! If he had just been open enough to state what Dave had to "drag" out of him, and post reality in little post it's on the interview, it would have been much more fluid.. But once in awhile the man did state the errors of Mormonism clearly to Dave's questions.. At times he was honest, which I appreciated.. LoveInJesus

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

You LDS really fail to see the believer’s position in Christ, i.e. what Jesus “HAS” done for the believer, is told to us over and over in the Bible. For fun, let’s use a seldom used passage to show this truth in context. So, the book of Ephesians is oft referred to as the book of “InNess” for all of the references we are given to those being “In Christ”. This is a theme throughout the book and context of the entire book. 10 times in this short book we have the words, “in Christ”. Interestingly this has been referenced also as a condensed “book of Romans”, which also contains these words, “in Christ” or “in Christ Jesus” 10 times. No one that reads the first chapter of the book of Ephesians can come to any other conclusion than I am forgiven “today”, I am His Son today. My current position, “in Christ” is forgiven. There is no other conclusion one can honestly come to at all by reading the context. Let’s follow the scriptures in context: Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: “who hath blessed” is the verb, ευλογησας and is in the aorist tense, and mood is participle. Now in Greek, verbs have tense and have the concept of past, present and future, but the most significant feature of tense in Greek is “kind of action”, ongoing, finished, or a simple occurrence. A secondary consideration of tense, and one that only applies in the indicative mood is, time of action. is really speaking of the “aktionsart” of the verb, as Greek is more concerned with the type of action. So this is a punctiliar action presented from the speakers aspect. He, God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings, now, this is something we Christians have, it is portrayed, done in as one would take a “snapshot” of an event that happened. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: The words “should be” are not to mean, sometime in the future, “we should be” if we “earn it”, no no, they are the word ειναι and it is a verb, And is a verb in the PRESENT tense! This is not something, someday I might be, after I have “earned it”, no no no, this is NOW! This is my position in Christ NOW! AND WHAT IS MY STATE NOW? “holy and without blame before him in love” ! He sees, we that have accepted His blood,, oh but we will get to that. He sees me “holy”, “without blame” ,, wow! These words are actually the single Greek word, αμωμους and is defined as 1. without blemish a. as a sacrifice without spot or blemish 2. morally: without blemish, faultless, unblameable WOW! THAT’S OUR POSITION “in Christ” RIGHT NOW. Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. And this is all do to the “good pleasure of his will”.. God is so good, and this is to the glory of his what? Let’s say it , “grace” and here is a great part,, again He tells us, This grace is described as that "wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." "Which (grace) He freely bestowed upon us in the Beloved." The words "freely bestowed" are the translation of charitoō, "to pursue with grace, to compass with favor, to honor with blessings." This verb has the same stem as the noun Charis (grace). One could render the clause, "which (grace) He graced us with in the Beloved." The word "Beloved," referring to the Lord Jesus ALSO TO FURTHER EMPHASIZE THIS CONCEPT, THE HOLY SPIRIT CHOSE TO HAVE the word charitoō be in the aorist tense, indicative mood, this is a punctiliar action and now involving time as a statement of fact. In Greek an affirmation is said to be in the indicative mood. The term “mood” comes from the Latin modus, meaning “measure” or “manner”. Mood refers to the manner in which the speaker relates the verbal idea to reality. The indicative mood indicates that the speaker affirms the factuality of the statement! We are “in the Beloved, Jesus”! NOW DRUM ROLL….. I LOVE THIS PART. No ambiguity, nothing to guess. A summation of the previous context, wonderfully stated. Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Because we know, from the context context context, we that are beloved, holy and blameless before Him are “In whom” as He describes us that ? Now the meat: I will let the Greek scholar Wuest, speak to you that are lost, that are not “in Christ” now as he does do a wonderful statement of his exegesis of the verse, very intense and very thorough: "The Beloved" is described as the One "in whom we have redemption." The verb is present in tense, and durative in action, thus, "in whom we are having redemption." The redemption is an abiding fact from the past, through the present, and into the future. The fact of redemption is always a present reality with the believing reader of this passage whether he reads it today or ten years from now. The definite article appears before "redemption." It has a two-fold significance, pointing to the particular redemption spoken of in the Bible with which both the writer and reader are acquainted, and speaking of ownership. It is "in whom we are having our redemption." The word "redemption" is apolutrōsis which Thayer defines as follows; the verb, "to redeem one by paying the price, to let one go free on receiving the price"; the noun, "a releasing effected by payment of ransom, deliverance, liberation procured by the payment of a ransom." The story of redemption can be told in three Greek words; agorazō, "to buy in the slave market" (1Co_6:20; 1Co_7:23; 1Co_7:30, 2Pe_2:1, Rev_5:9); the Lord Jesus bought us in the slave market of sin, the ransom price, His blood; we are his bondslaves; exagorazō, "to buy out of the slave market, to buy off, to buy for one’s self" (Gal_3:13; Gal_4:5); the redeemed are the possession of the Lord Jesus forever, and will never be put up for sale in any slave market again; lutroō "to liberate by payment of ransom" (Tit_2:14, 1Pe_1:18); The particular aspect of redemption spoken of here is redemption from the guilt and condemnation of sin, for the qualifying phrase, "the forgiveness of sins" is added. This redemption is said to be "through His blood." The preposition is dia, the preposition of intermediate agency. The out-poured blood of the Son of God at the Cross is the lutron, "the price for redeeming, the ransom," used of the act of buying slaves, of paying the ransom for a life or of captives. The blood of Christ paid for the sins of the human slaves of sin in the sense that it satisfied the just demands of God’s holy law which decreed that "the wages of sin is death"; and outpoured blood means death. This redemption is defined as "the forgiveness of sins." The word "forgiveness" is aphesis from aphiēmi, "to send from one’s self, to send away, to bid go away or depart." The noun aphesis, used in relation to "sins," means "a release, the letting them go as if they had not been committed, thus, forgiveness, a remission of their penalty" (Thayer). Trench says that the image underlying the verb is that of releasing a prisoner (Isa_61:1), or letting go, as of a debt (Deu_15:3). One is reminded of the one goat who was offered as a sin-offering on the Day of Atonement, and of the other goat upon which was placed the sins of the people (symbolically) and which was let go in the wilderness, never to be seen again by Israel, the latter goat typifying that aspect of redemption in which the sins of the human race were put away, never to be charged against the individual again. God’s forgiveness of sin refers therefore to His act of putting sin away on a judicial basis, to His remitting the guilt and penalty. It is for the sinner to avail himself of salvation by appropriating the Lord Jesus as his Saviour by faith in what He has done for him on the Cross. The particular word for "sins" here is paraptōma, from parapiptō, "to fall beside a person or thing, to slip aside"; the noun form paraptōma means, "a fall beside or near something; a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness, a sin, a misdeed, a trespass." This forgiveness is "according to the riches of His grace." The words "according to" are the translation of kata, a. preposition which in its local meaning has the idea of "down." The word "down" speaks of domination. The word "domination" speaks of control. The degree of this forgiveness was controlled, dominated by the riches, (ploutos) wealth, abundance, plenitude of God’s grace. This forgiveness is therefore a complete, an unqualified, an unchanging one, since it is controlled by the plenitude of God’s grace, and that plenitude is infinite in proportion. Expositors comments: "The freeness of this divine favor in the form of grace, the unmerited nature of the divine goodness, is what Paul most frequently magnifies with praise and wonder. Here it is the mighty measure of the largesse, the grace in its quality of riches, that is introduced. This magnificent conception of the wealth of the grace that is bestowed on us by God and that which is in Christ for us, is a peculiarly Pauline idea." So many ways and times we are explicitly told our wealth “in Christ”. I don’t need anything but His blood, nor as He states, can I add to the price paid for my sins, His blood, that was the price paid for our sin. And I am standing before Him, holy, and blameless, “in the Beloved” That is a Christians position in Christ. LoveInJesus.

[@RedDelPaPa]

"Saved by grace after all you can do." How depressing. I'll bet 99% of Mormons didn't do all they could do, today alone, let alone their entire lives.

[@choosingjesus9096]

Thank you for loving Mormons!

[@hollayevladimiroff131]

Thank you Christian brothers, great job!!

[@joepeaceman9064]

A "Christian" (kramatorg-sp?) asked me some questions I explained that the best way to find the answers we all need is to prayfully read the Bible and BofM etc. and listen to Christ and His Apostles etc. & I hopefully gave some helpful info. for honest seekers :)- kram asked "Where does he (Jesus) say we must be more righteous than others?" Matt. 5:20 "For I say unto you, that except your righteousness shall exceed [the righteousness] of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no wise enter into the kingdom of heaven." What sacraments? ""He who has believed and has been baptized shall be saved;" Mark 16:16 24 After giving thanks, he broke it and said, “This is my body, which is for you; DO THIS to remember me.” 27Then he took a cup, and when he had given thanks, he gave it to them, saying, “Drink from it, all of you.28This is my blood of the covenant," See the rest in the next two comments- : ) luv ya'll

[@mrmack3318]

Questions krametorg can't answer: When he says "God said, I will not share my glory with another. Isaiah 42:8." yet can't response to Jesus sharing His glory with us in John 17:22 "And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one" Besides the fact this blows the trinity out of the water he will try to claim it supports the trinity and ignore the fact that while he is trying to stump the saints he stumped himself.

[@richardholmes7199]

Have the disrespectful krametorg Google ''Book of Abraham pt 1 (Why Egyptologists are wrong) youtube''. Watch him AVOID COMMENT when seeing the egyptologists and his anti-Mormon crowd proven wrong for assuming Joseph Smith was supposed to translate like an egyptologist.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

@@richardholmes7199 that fraud book that's been refuted thousands of times the fraud that Smith pulled out of his ass that you keep trolling on you dumbass

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

I really would like to thank all those who are truly trying to find truth. I had no idea this would be such an important video for both Mormons and Christians to experience and share their views. I'm grateful for the Almighty God that we can share our differences in love and try to help others especially LDS to understand the Biblical view of who God is and what is His Gospel for us. God Bless everyone and I hope all may encounter His Love and become Born of Him. He is the Light and we only have His life if we receive Him. May we always Love.

[@benjamminsfriends]

Hi Dave, Happy Easter ! easter.mormon.org/?cid=HPTU041514694 Maybe after watching this you will understand the Church of Jesus Christ of LDS´s perspective about Jesus ? Then again, pigs might fly !

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Bejamin, I know your theology very well. I was one of you for 25 years. Studied 1000 of hours, what is it that I don't understand?

[@benjamminsfriends]

Exactly Dave ! Thank you... :-)

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Linda, I was LDS for 25 years. I do know your beliefs..And for that reason, I do know the Word of God, the Holy Bible and it is very different than your beliefs so I try to help those who are not part of your faith to be better informed about your faith. Hope this makes sense.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Are you ready to give me some insight? Let's start off with the Nature of God? Do you believe that your god, god the Father is a physical man? If he is, prove to me and the rest of the bible believing Christians where it states that?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

It is truly amazing to see the amount of "hate" that I've seen from many so-called believers of Jesus in this forum. I'm utterly so sad especially with the LDS that have sent me so many personal attacks. What is wrong with you. This is a discussion of theology and I know it can be challenging but "NO ONE" deserves the disrespect and personal attacks and swearing that I've seen especially with Alexander, Justin and Mormonson. Guys, do you see what you are doing? God will judge YOU by your hate and words. Repent and show love not Hate. That is not the gospel of Him. Even though we disagree with your theology we do not personally attack like the viciousnesss of so many here. Please. Your writings are recorded and seen by so many. Is this the example that you want to have others see and also God?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

These are the attacks I am getting and I would like for the world to see: Alexander Raia, alias Justin, A Mormon believer of ??? says: Dave Bartosiewicz........a true gospel genius who is going to show us all who the true Jesus really is....Hey Dave, can you teach us all to become drug addicted boy biters just like you? Why don't you borrow some of krametorg's kool aid and brainwash another 5 people who actually watch your stupid videos. Wise up, you prick. Alexander Raia Your post makes absolutely no sense. Please learn to construct a complete and rational sentence before you try to remove a thought from your little, tiny brain. You don't find videos of Mormons trashing other faiths because good, honest, God-fearing people don't trash the faith of others. It seems that "Christians" like yourself, are the only ones who torment and persecute a faith that is different from your own. It is funny that you attack easy targets like Mormons. I dare you to attack the faith of Jews, or even Muslims. They would probably rip the cross that you wear right off your skinny neck. Then they would slowly turn you around and break it off right in your ass. Alexander Raia Are you a total jerk off? We all see how you practice yours. Alexander Raia Mar 23, 2014 Hey Dave...glad to know that you are comparing yourself to Jesus now. Teach his gospel do you? How about teaching us all to be alcoholics and drug addicts as well? You are nothing but a bullshitter who likes to waste people's time. Thank you for being a two faced punk. You suck. And let me tell you something asshole....you wouldn't know Jesus if he smacked you in the face. Alexander Raia Dave Bartosiewicz is nothing but a low life, two faced punk. I can't stand pieces of shit like him, preying on the faith of others in the name of Jesus. Dave, your time of reckoning is gonna come real soon. The Destroying Angel of God is going to have his day with you. And I guarantee that you will have one last thought in your stupid head before he turns you to dust....the Destroying Angel is not much of a MORMON. Take care, asshole. James Tia, Mormon The host reminds me of a pharisee trying to be slick and cunning like the devil.

[@krametorgsite]

Dave Bartosiewicz Yep. I have got these same attacks from the Mormon victims who act so wounded because you take issue with the teachings of their church. For some reason, LDS are incapable of separating disagreement from personal attacks. The two are not synonymous.

[@krametorgsite]

Dave Bartosiewicz BTW, it was people stooped to this level that I banned them from commenting on my videos. You also have to block them in Google+. Some people are just not worth the effort.

[@stuartsc01]

Dave Bartosiewicz Alexander Raia....Your post makes absolutely no sense. Please learn to construct a complete and rational sentence before you try to remove a thought from your little, tiny brain. If I remember correctly.... Alex posted the same thing to me when I was posting to you. Not sure they realized they were posting to me but they do strike me as a wackjob and not indicitive of most posters here.

[@07nightingale]

Michael RedCrow I know many native americans who are born again christains who have found Jesus Christ .Warriors For Christ are an amazing group of believers. It is such a joy to see the service the native christains have each sunday at the alliance church here in my town. What a heart they have for the lost and the hurting. They share the gospel with all people doesn't matter the color and they have made a difference for Christ. We know God does not look at a mans color ,He looks at our hearts and He knows our spiritual condition. He has revealed Himself through creation and through our conscience.The truth is we have all broken His laws and sinned against Him .Doesn't matter what race ,culture or what part of the world you live in . But God in His love offers forgiveness through His Son Jesus Christ . “I am the way, the truth and the life; no one comes to the Father [Creator] but through me.“ (John 14:6). Heaven is a gift ,yet many think they have to earn it or need to work for it . Jesus said we are to take the gospel to the world and that is what we do.. Grace and peace to you.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

So we have seen the false claim of Mormonism that they have a priesthood and have any right to baptize or lay on hands. Closely linked to this is a question. "Who died and left you a testament".? As I have been told this a number of times by your young missionaries.. You have "another gospel", "another testament".. Well, Who died and left you a testament?

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

1) Dear LDS friends, please, here we have a story of 2 people. One a nice guy, in fact exemplary in his conduct. According to the law, guiltless in his outward life, at least to what he considered, now that is saying a lot. I am sure he had his temple recommends. Then we have the other man, well such a sad case for all to see. Let's see if we can spot the fatal flaw here. 2) In the book of Luke chapter 8 verses 10 through 12 “Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican. I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.” 3) Further in verses 13 through 14 “And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner. I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.” 4) Can you spot the first of his flaws? God evidently had no such problem. "and prayed thus with himself, God" . The god of the self righteous as Jesus said, is "self". The Pharisee then went on to expound all his righteousness. Sounds a bit like "grace after all you can do" doesn't it. Getting the picture friend? Then we have the one who was none of those good things. Today, what would he be? Drug user? Adulterer? 5) Just a sinner and he knew this didn't he! "would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner". Hey that's me! I recognize this guy! Wow, what a sinner, so far short of His perfection. Grace that caused an inner change from a heart of repentance. Well what does Jesus say? " I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other" 6) Who's your God? Self? Are You relying on grace after all you can do? It doesn't work that way friend. "all my righteousness is as filthy rags". Got those temple recommends in order? He wasn't impressed with that friend. Argue as you might, Jesus tells us who was forgiven, who continued in his own righteousness. Your good deeds will never be enough. Jesus is "For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth" LoveInJesus

[@bluerain6715]

I love Kirk Cameron's response to a Mormon..."So, if your right (Mormon) you're saved by works, I (the Christian) will still go to one of the three heavens... "but If I'm right and we are saved by Grace, you're going to hell.

[@krametorgsite]

+JUNE BUG Kirk is wrong. It's never an effective tactic to condemn people in hopes of getting them saved. Never. "It is the kindness of God that leads men to repentance." Rom. 2:4

[@bluerain6715]

Yes, I worded that incorrectly...it was in the form of a question Kirk asked...let me try this again. In Mormon theology, there are three levels of heaven and the level someone enters after they die is determined through works and NOT grace. In fact, a Mormon claims even Hitler will go to the bottom level of heaven....Now, also keep in mind Mormon's teach about Joseph Smith as the true prophet & Jesus is just a footnote in their church. They use the book of Mormon in their services and comparison to the KJV is frowned upon. So, Kirk asked a Mormon this question .."If you're right (Mormon teachings) I get into one of the three heavens by works alone and not grace? Then Kirk adds..."but, if I am right with what the bible teaches, we enter heaven through the Grace of Jesus Christ and not works...(we must give our lives to Christ) you will go to hell. If I saw your child in the middle of the road about to be hit, I would scream "GET OUT OF THE WAY"...I'm sure anyone would too. Please keep in mind it's not about being mean it's about being firm with God's truth to wake someone up who is lost, to avoid them from going to hell... I hope I explained it clearly enough...Cheers~!

[@yaruqadishi8326]

@@bluerain6715 luckily though we deep baptized off Hitler either God or Jesus made them so known to everybody already or Christianity is false so why would they worry about people don't know him in fact you should not even worry about it all that means they're free without him should never bother with them they're okay they're better than okay they have a free pass stop trying to attack dead people leave the dead alone all of them there's no chance it's the morons who need to have a chance to repent leave the dead alone or not an harm or any hurt they're free and happy and safe

[@krametorgsite]

Do you REALLY want scriptural proof that says Jesus is God? If you're in search of a God and not just a church you cannot deny this: Gen. 1:1 In the beginning, GOD created the heavens and the earth. Mal. 2:10 Have you not all one Father? Did not one God create us? Col. 1:16 For by Him (Christ) all things were created; things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things were created by him and for him. The only way all 3 of these verses can be true is if the Christian doctrine, that Jesus is God, is true. So now, consider the LDS position by comparison, that Jesus and the Father are not the same God. Therefore, if Genesis and Malachi are correct, then Colossians has to be false. As this shows, the LDS are hostile toward the word of God. They want you to trust them and their prophecies more than the word of God. As Jesus said, "Beware of false prophets who come in sheep's clothing (missionary uniforms) but inward are ravenous wolves (they will steal your soul for a lie if you let them).

[@krametorgsite]

***** Notice how no LDS wants to take this on? That's because they know their theology does not conform to the bible, yet they claim they are Christians, the only authentic Christians, while at the same time they deny the power of Jesus as God that is plainly set in scripture. Men will be swayed by every wind of doctrine if that is what they want...even more than God. And this describes the LDS perfectly. In pursuit of a church and a god created in their own image rather than go after God himself.

[@cheidetimu2240]

+I'm very concerned as to where you all got your information from? And where along the lines it was twisted? The only thing you can do is 1. Not assume facts that simply aren't true. 2. Attend a church session on Sundays. 3. Pray about teaching that come from The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I have a true testimony of Christ and I can only testify to you all that if you pray in faith and not be light minded; you will receive an answer from our heavenly Father. I'm so grateful for stumbling across this seeing the interest in our church. A lot of members simply may not have time also the prophets council was to avoid contention.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Cheide Timu Cheide, I understand that you feel what you feel. I just would like to say, as Christ said, We can not be saved in Ignorance...Study what your church teaches with the Bible and if you have a true sense of wanting to see the differences, God will show them to you. I would first go to the basics: 1. What does my Church teach about God's nature? Was He before "All Things" or was He a god that progressed and became a god? Who is Jesus? Is He my brother spiritually or is He God who came down in flesh to save us? Was Jesus created or uncreated spiritually? If you start with this, it may help. God bless.

[@krametorgsite]

Cheide Timu LDS beloved: Thank you for proving that it's PERFECT CHURCH you seek more than a PERFECT GOD. I got my information from the bible. What is wrong with anything I posted? Do you see the twisting in the faith you follow? Do you see how this works? Look with your own eyes --->You say that "If I pray in faith" that the LDS is true, I will receive an answer." which obviously is designed to lead me to one of only 2 possible conclusions: 1. That if I arrived at correct LDS answer, therefore, I obviously prayed in faith...or... 2. If I did NOT arrive at the correct LDS answer, therefore, I of course did NOT pray in faith. That is so wrong. It's either we are right or you are wrong. Is that how it works in the LDS? I trust God to do HIS job which is by revelation to speak to anyone he wants to. How do YOU know what he is saying? How do YOU know if he wants someone in the LDS or in the marketplace or in another church or or or? These are manipulative tactics taught by the LDS. Listen to Dave. How knows of what he speaks. These are brainwashing tactics. And if you feel like you have to avoid contention, ok, do that. Then why did you post here? As for me, I will follow the word of God which says, "Contend EARNESTLY for the faith." Jude 1:3. So not only does God's word say opposite of what the LDS teach about contending, it goes that much farther and says to contend EARNESTLY. Do you now see how hostile the LDS beliefs are toward the original prophecy of God (the bible) now?

[@krametorgsite]

Cheide Timu BTW: Thank you for not addressing a single point about the 3 scriptures. You can't argue with absolutes like the scripture I posted, so you first ignore them and then point people to something totally subjective in its place like their feelings. That's the LDS in a nutshell.

[@elainebeard1320]

Dave you are rude and arrogant.Let each person finish what they are saying.Dont interject .

[@ShaneOsborne]

the only way to heaven is through his WORD the Lord Jesus the Christ

[@bartee807]

This "debate" is not good...very poorly done and it does seem like you are ganging up on the Mormon gentleman (I am not Mormon btw). A debate would alot certain amount of time for each to present their argument then the opposition would have equal time to counter...something along those lines. This is a discussion or a dialogue...big difference. Also...I would suggest that you work on your interviewing skills...especially that you interrupt too much. In a debate you would be the moderator...who does not give his own opinions and interjections. My opinion is that you clearly have your own biased opinion and were eager to prove the Mormon false to the point that you came across arrogant and "holier than thou". You won't win people for Christ that way. I pray that your evangelization skills improve for the sake of the kingdom. The other two guys did okay with what they had to work with here...again...this is not an actual debate. Peace be with you.

[@07nightingale]

+Kerri B You think Dave was ganging up on the mormon elder? You know what I as a Christian like about Dave and his way of interviewing? He makes sure that people listening to both sides of of this debate know what EACH really believes. Unless a person knows exactly what a group really believe they may think both are of the same understanding . Lds use a lot of the same terminology as Christians but what they really mean is different .So yes I for one am grateful for "evangelists" like Dave who make sure the viewer understands the difference between the Lds church and the Christian church. By the way dear ,the same Holy Spirit who is in you is in Dave so why are you sitting in judgement over him?? Are you alone privy to the Holy Spirit?? God works in many wonderful ways and in many unexpected ways .He is not in a box or is He? You said, "You won't win people for Christ that way." Are you God?? Have you been with Dave during his time alone with God seeking His wisdom and direction to bring the lost to Christ ? Honestly it is not anti christians that are doing more to hinder the work of the Body of Christ ,it is those within .We are not cookie cutter Christians. WE follow as He leads and the results are in His hands not in ours. Ultimately the only opinion that matters is Jesus' . To Him be the glory .Grace and peace.

[@07nightingale]

cdowis An ambush? You mean by making sure a mormon elder admits what they really mean instead of just using christian terminology? Got news for you dear a true debate is when both sides are honest about what they really mean .Or do you have a problem with that?

[@07nightingale]

cdowis Pretending it is a debate?? Clearly the only thing you are upset about is that the elder finally admitted the truth about what they believe. Since when is admitting the truth about what you believe and teach a bad thing ? He is a victim?? For what ? Telling what the lds church teaches? I thought the mormon elder did a good job of finally explaining the key differences between lds teachings and christian . something all mormons should do.

[@07nightingale]

cdowis I thought you said you listened to the video debate from both sides? Did he admit the lds teach and believe all people will have to go through the lds temple in order to get to heaven ? yes or no?

[@07nightingale]

cdowis Wow only you would think the elder was a victim. Seems you have no faith in his answers . If you want answers to if there is only one heaven and one hell look in the bible and actually take the verses in context . 1 Corinthians 15:40-42New American Standard Bible (NASB) 40 There are also heavenly bodies and earthly bodies, but the glory of the heavenly is one, and the glory of the earthly is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for star differs from star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown [a]a perishable body, it is raised [b]an imperishable body; Is Paul talking about what our resurrected body will be like here?? Obviously when you read 1 Cor.15 in context you know he is talking about our resurrected bodies. So yeah it is no wonder lds use the words' saved by grace' how they want but in the end if you read every verse in context you understand what God has said. So what does the Bible say about the three heavens? The First Heaven: Earth Atmosphere Deut. 11:17--"Then the LORD's anger will burn against you, and he will shut the heavens so that it will not rain and the ground will yield no produce . . ." Deut. 28:12--"The LORD will open the heavens, the storehouse of his bounty, to send rain on your land in season and to bless all the work of your hands." Judges 5:4--"O LORD, when you went out from Seir, when you marched from the land of Edom, the earth shook, the heavens poured, the clouds poured down water." Acts 14:17--"Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons, . . . " The Second Heaven: Outer Space Psalm 19:4, 6--"In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun . . . It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other, . . . ". Jeremiah 8:2--"They will be exposed to the sun and the moon and all the stars of the heavens which they have loved and served . . . " Isaiah 13:10--"The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light." The Third Heaven: God's Dwelling Place 1 Kings 8:30--"-then hear from heaven, your dwelling place . . . " Psalm 2:4--"The One enthroned in heaven laughs; The LORD scoffs at them." Matthew 5:16--"In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven." The highest heaven, the third heaven is indicated by the reference to the Throne of God being the highest heaven: 1 Kings 8:27--"But will God really dwell on earth? The heavens, even the highest heaven, cannot contain you." Deut. 10:14--"To the LORD your God belong the heavens, even the highest heavens, the earth and everything in it."

[@theboywithaflowertattoo]

Very biast interview. I'm a believer in Jesus Christ myself, not LDS. It was more like a 3 on 1 debate.

[@krametorgsite]

Ian Manubens One with God is a majority, beloved. With God on my side, I wouldn't care if it was 100-to-1.

[@JesusEternal]

***** The Trinity vs the Mormon godhead: Trinity = One car with three people inside of it driving down the road. Mormons = Three cars driving down the road. Holy Bible = There can only be one car on the road! Reality = One God with three people controlling the universe. VS three gods controlling the universe. THERE CAN ONLY BE ONE GOD!

[@krametorgsite]

JesusEternal Hmm, interestingly put. Here's what I have asked the LDS before. So There had to be a first God at some point which no Mormon will address. But if LDS god had a father and he a father before him, eventually we come to a first god. What was in it for him to create more gods? To share power? And who is making all these decisions which gets to your point. The LDS cannot address anything like that, they just have to punt which is why thinking people ignore them.

[@adrianmiller2073]

Ian M exactly what I was just saying, this was frustrating to watch and I'm not lds either.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

If you don't know the evils of this moron Colt or what the lies Smith made up like he was selling things he was saying you wouldn't want to be hearing this guy says it's better to keep him in track because of the evil things more on his teachers and fraudulently comes up with you don't want to hear that

[@TheLeftWentInsane]

Faith is believing God not just believing in God's existence. I'm #3 of 6 children all born LDS. Our Mormon roots go back both sides to 1800's. My dad was bishop when I was growing up and so was his dad and brother my 3 brothers were missionaries 1 is a bishop now. 1 sister met her missionary husband while on her mission. They met up after missions were through my sister #2 married a missionary and died LDS 2 yrs ago from cancer. Its this way with all my relatives on both sides. So when i had my (unusual to Mormans) moment of clarity and took my name off Church records through Salt Lake one could imagine the backlash it caused. But I believe I am a gentile not a Jew and God is operating in the dispensation of grace through the Apostle Paul at this time (Romans-Philemon) and will once again fulfil his prophetic program with Israel after the Rapture of the Church The Body of Christ. "For by Grace are we saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is the gift of God not of works that any man should boast" thanx for letting me share.😄

[@yaruqadishi8326]

Of course you're a gentile all morons are gentiles they're just in denial of it even their book of moron and even in the early DNC with all its evil admits a times that gentiles are the morons they just don't want to believe it or there's an occult which exactly what Smith wanted but Smith is no power anymore and their false dead false leaders are just going to have to admit to

[@zakwatene1583]

It looks like this useless interviewer made this interview to ambush the mormon guy but put the other two in it to make it look like he wasn't. It's plain obvious. I wouldn't have wasted my time explaining myself to him.

[@greedgreed8894]

Cult Cult Cult Cult Cult.

[@run95111]

+Greed Greed what is the next verse? Troll Troll Troll Troll Troll?

[@greedgreed8894]

John The Fisherman Show us all your magic underwear, The ones that Joseph Smith wants you to wear when you're being molested by an elder. Lol...

[@larrywhaley964]

+Greed Greed You ought to be real proud of yourself after a comment like that!!!!! You don't need to be talking any kind of religion.

[@greedgreed8894]

+Larry Whaley Larry are you getting emotional about me taking a shit on your moron I mean Mormon Bible?

[@larrywhaley964]

+Greed Greed No but God probably is!!!!

[@katbos4995]

“After all YOU can do,” is not the principle of Grace. That is earning your own way.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

Kat Wats exactly Romans 11:6 says if it's by works then grace is no more grace.

[@shamgarcahn9980]

Bottoming is this, if you believe in repentance, you believe in works. Revelation already says that God will judge all by the works they've done. Enduring to the end means never going back to sin. Revelation says who will be going to hell. If you believe in Jesus and accept his grace, but you're a liar, you're not saved, you're going to the lake of fire just like revelation says. Most Christians, even mormons, don't understand the new testament and especially Paul's writings, which is understandable considering theyre probably the hardest books to read out of the whole bible IF you're reading a reliable version... So, if you repent, that's a work. Revelation even says you will be judged by your works. If you're a sorcerer, an adulterer, a liar, or doing any sinful thing, regardless of how much you proclaim jesus' name, and you don't repent, you're going to the lake of fire. No ifs ands or buts about it. That's what the scriptures say. Whoever says differently doesn't understand the scriptures.

[@mitchlong8077]

If works are of little value, why would Jesus Himself ask us to do the things that he himself did? You are right in the sense that the principle of Grace is NOT something we can earn. It is the gift (actually gifts) that we receive SOLELY because of Jesus Christ and his love for us. But that does not negate the need to follow our very Savior's example by performing works. The Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ requires BOTH Grace and good works. When properly understood , BOTH are necessary.

[@prayerwarrior7778]

@@mitchlong8077 we cannot do the works of the Spirit (Mark 16:17) without the Holy Spirit living in us (1 Cor 3:16). No one can please God in the flesh a Romans 3:20, "20Therefore no one will be justified in His sight by works of the law. For the law merely brings awareness of sin." See we are sealed by the Holy Spirit based on our belief, not baptism, the bible states in this Eph 1:13, "3And in Him, having heard and believed the word of truth- the gospel of your salvation- you were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit," Good works and miracles come out of a loving relationship knowing that I am already justified by His name. Romans 8:29-30, "For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. " It is not that works do not have value but rather that signs follow those who BELIEVE, because that is the order that scripture gives it in. Romans 4:3, "3For what does the Scripture say? “ Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness.” THe BOM gives a very different order than this, or so it seems. Both are necessary. But both do not save us. I would love to further this conversation if you would care to, if I have not scared you off. I actually believe in the five offices in Eph 4:11 and I do not believe the bible is perfect and I believe God speaks. I;m not a cesseasentionst.

[@brandymessick4357]

Which is NOT possible...coming from an ex mormon of 38 years...listening to this mormon guy makes my stomach nauseous...

[@ShaneOsborne]

it's true - our works can't save us, but once we are saved we must do good works

[@krametorgsite]

We've all seen the 17 Points of a "true" church. In case you've been lost somewhere, here they are: 17 Points of the True Church of Christ Christ organized the Church (Eph 4:11-14) The true church must bear the name of Jesus Christ (Eph 5:23) The true church must have a foundation of Apostles and Prophets (Eph 2:19-20) The true church must have the same organization as Christ’s Church (Eph 4:11-14) The true church must claim divine authority (Heb 4:4-10) The true church must have no paid ministry (Acts 20:33-34; John 10:11-13) The true church must baptize by immersion (Matt 3:13-16) The true church must bestow the gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands (Acts 8:14-17) The true church must practice divine healing (Mark 3:14-15) The true church must teach that God and Jesus are separate and distinct individuals (John 17:11; 20:17) The true church must teach that God and Jesus have bodies of flesh and bone (Luke 23:36-39; Acts 1:9-11; Heb 1:1-3) The officers must be called by God (Heb 4:4; Ex 28:1; 40:13-16) The true church must claim revelation from God (Amos 3:7) The true church must be a missionary church (Matt 28:19-20) The true church must be a restored church (Acts 3:19-20) The true church must practice baptism for the dead (1Cor 15:16&29) “By their fruits ye shall know them.” (Matt 7:20) Now let's examine what those who have been baptized by the Holy Spirit believe: We have decided, that teaching the Gospel without demonstrating the Gospel is not enough good preaching, good doctrine, being good people - it’s not enough We’ve decided that having a good church club is not enough good fellowship - it’s not enough just being a member of that club is not enough We’ve decided that having good bible studies is good, but not good enough. That just making it to heaven is not our goal and that knowing about God without truly knowing Him and experiencing God is meaningless We’ve decided that having good programs is not enough, That change without transformation is intolerable And that staying the same is not an option We’ve decided that gifting without character is futile We’ve decided that singing songs without worshipping is hollow Having meetings without God showing up is pointless We’ve decided that faith without works is not enough And having works without love is not acceptable That our function comes out of our relationship first, with our father and second, with each other We have that decided that reading about the book of Acts without living the book of acts is unthinkable We’ve decided that confident faith is good, bold faith is better We’ve decided that hearing about the Holy Spirit without experiencing Him is silly That believing in His presence without seeing it manifested in signs and wonders is hypocrisy That believing in healing without seeing people healed is absurd and that believing in deliverance without people being delivered is absolutely ridiculous We’ve decided to be Holy Spirit filled, Holy Spirit led, and Holy Spirit empowered Anything less doesn’t work for us We have decided to be the ones telling the stories of God’s power, not the ones hearing about God We have decided that living saved, but not supernatural, is living below our privilege and short of what Christ died for. We have decided that we’re a battleship, not a cruise ship an army, not an audience special forces, not spectators missionaries, not club members We have decided to value both pioneers and settlers pioneers to expand our territory and settlers to build on those territories but we are not squatters - people who take up space others have fought for without improving it We have decided to be infectious instead of innocuous contagious instead of quarantined deadly instead of benign We have decided to be radical lovers and outrageous givers We have decided that we’re a mission station, not a museum Therefore, we honor the past, but we don’t live in it. We live in the present with our eyes on the future We see past events, success and failures as stepping stones, not stop signs We pursue learning in order to be transformed, not learning in order to know We are people of engagement, not observation We focus on what could be, not what is or has been We are not limited to the 4 walls of this building Our influence is not restricted by location Not even the nations are ‘out of bounds’ We are more concerned about how many we send out into the world, Than how many we convince to come into the building This building is meant to be filled, and it will be but it will not be the measure of who we are, or the measure of our effectiveness We raise up world-changers, not tour-guides We train commandos, not committers We are people of our destiny, not our history We have decided that it’s better to fail while reaching for the impossible that God has planned for us than succeed in settling for less We have decided that nothing short of His kingdom come, and His will be done in our world as it is in heaven will satisfy We have decided we will not be satisfied until our world freaks out, and cries out “those who have turned the world upside down have come here too” (acts 17:6) These are some of the decisions that define who we are as a community and how we live our lives These decisions are not destinations but rather journeys Journeys along an ancient path, we’ve not found some new way but rather we’ve discovered the path as old as Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob The same path followed by Moses, Joshua, Caleb, Paul, John, and Peter A path followed by the first century church A church that revolutionized the culture of the 1st century and beyond It’s a path that will impact the world we live in today It’s a path of bold faith believing that what God says is really true and acting on it It’s a path of outrageous generosity Giving our life away in order to demonstrate his kingdom It’s a path of radical love Loving God with everything in us and our neighbors as ourselves It’s a path of liberty freedom and healing On this path, you will find significance purpose and destiny It’s a path less traveled, however It’s not a path only available to a select few but to whosoever will may come It’s for people of every nation tribe and tongue for those in any occupation or vocation Now which one sounds like it has anointing of the Holy Spirit to you?

[@JulieHollar]

ONE POINT if eh True CHURCH of JESUS CHRIST: Bought by the Blood of the Lamb

[@yaruqadishi8326]

No true true teachers baptism of the Dead leave the dead alone all Christians biblically not never did it they were against it Paul condemns those who were in the group who went baptized on behalf of one of their saints only because they were honoring him they weren't doing it for him the passage is corruptly out of context the true Christians never did this the Christian Church doesn't say Jesus on it but it can say Christ Church and the other Christian churches out there have the name Christ on it all over so that's argument is not in the prophets well the word prophets are under apostles unlike the moron Colt which just puts a profit above apostles which means the more you defeats itself and has to be a profit not a fraudster president of a cult that makes up stupid arguments like Russell m Nelson does or Satan Smith does the cult doesn't fit that of Ephesians and it doesn't fit the way it does in Corinthians and Corinthians and Ephesians it says anybody who's in the church a commoner can be a prophet not a person with a high elected official of a cult so that means the moron Colt falls away immediately.

[@edolag2]

Remarkable interview! Peaceful, decent exchange of ideas and beliefs. I guess Mormons don't consider themselves better than other people -in a social manner- just they say that they have the exclusive God's authority (priesthood) trough apostolic sucession from JC to Joseph Smith to current prophet therefore the exclusive knowledge about ordinances and divine works to return. Mormons are in some way "the freemasons of Christians", same basis but secret and sacred ordenances.... sorry my english, I speak spanish, take care dudes!

[@krametorgsite]

Correct, they act exclusively in everything. But their claimed succession is false and the scripture in Luke 9:49 proves it. If only LDS can minister and have priesthood authority as they say, why then did Jesus just let this man on the street go on ministering to people on the street without interference from Jesus and the apostles? Jesus had his chance to tell that man, Stop! But he didn't,. He in fact let me go on ministering much to the Apostles dismay. This renders everything taught by the LDS meaningless. Put another way, I can claim things all day long. I can claim I'm car if you put me in a the garage. But that doesn't make it true, does it?

[@joepeaceman9064]

:) you seem like a thoughtful Christian. You should understand that Jesus has established His Church in these last days in preparation for His return and, as they did when Jesus lived on earth, the religionists fight against that (and they used the Bible then, as they do now, to try to lead people away from the true Christ). Christians in Apostolic times kept Temple Sacraments sacred (Masons are probably descended from the KNights of the Temple who went to Jerusalem to obtain the Temple Sacraments that were lost to many Christians hundreds of years after the Apostles were killed etc) If you seek you will find, be careful though. Read, ponder and pray. Read the Bible, read the Book of Mormon etc, and ask God if they are true. Trust in God to answer you. That is good advice for anyone.

[@krametorgsite]

Joe peaceman I fight against religion every day but you align dogmatically to one. How are you not a religionist? *The religionists fight against that (and they used the Bible then, as they do now, to try to lead people away from the true Christ).* Again, you don't? You're defining yourself. You know that right? I testify that Jesus is God - a title he never denied. I testify to a Jesus who did only what God can do, perform supernatural signs, wonders and miracles and forgave sin. I testify to a Jesus who's name is above EVERY name, even Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim, even Father and "God" because that is what God said his name was - above EVERY name. Now on those points above, I decided to go and take your advice to *"read your bible" and see what is the view of Christ is. Here's what it says: 1. His claim to be God (John 8 & 10) 2. His ability to do signs, wonders and miracles (Matt 14, John 2 & 11) 3. His ability to forgive sin (Luke 7:48, John 8:11, etc etc) 4. His name? Is it above all names and what does that signify? (Phil 2:9) Let's test the statement *_they used the Bible then, as they do now, to try to lead people AWAY from the TRUE Christ_* and see if you and I agree. Well, you told me to go read my bible and that's what it says above about the _TRUE CHRIST_ ...so I see a true Christ who claimed to be God and is the one and only God (whether past, present or future) in the flesh. It would seem you MUST agree with that, Joe, because I did what you said to do. And if you don't agree, does that make *_you_* a religionist?

[@joepeaceman9064]

***** says- I fight against religion every day, but you align dogmatically to one." Of course I align to the true Church of Christ :). Why not? And apparently you fight this religion- "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world." "How are you not a religionist?" Because I have rejected the god of the philosophers and the gospel of men. I teach people to keep Jesus' commandments the best they can. etc. How about you, do "You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed." ? The religionists fight against that (and they used the Bible then, as they do now, to try to lead people away from the true Christ). You say "Again, you don't? You're defining yourself. You know that right?" No, because I follow the Holy Spirit, and the Apostles called by Jesus, and given until we all come to a perfect man, so that I'm not tossed to and fro by every wind of doctrine.....you don't even seem to agree with Dave on some things... "I testify that Jesus is God - a title he never denied." Me too. I testify to a Jesus who did only what God can do, perform supernatural signs, wonders and miracles and forgave sin." Me too. "I testify to a Jesus who's name is above EVERY name, even Yahweh, Jehovah, Elohim, even Father and "God" because that is what God said his name was - above EVERY name." Jesus is God, Yahweh, etc. no need to split hairs- rather preach Him crucified and tell people that if they love Him they will keep His commandments, and stop fighting His Church. If I didn't answer these questions above let me know :), and when are you going to answer my questions? "Now on those points above, I decided to go and take your advice to *"read your bible" and see what is the view of Christ is. Here's what it says: 1. His claim to be God (John 8 & 10) 2. His ability to do signs, wonders and miracles (Matt 14, John 2 & 11) 3. His ability to forgive sin (Luke 7:48, John 8:11, etc etc) 4. His name? Is it above all names and what does that signify? (Phil 2:9)"

[@krametorgsite]

Joe peaceman *Of course I align to the true Church of Christ :). Why not? And apparently you fight this religion- "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."* So says you. Without anything to back up your claims. Wild doctrine builders, built in the name of Jesus, tho Jesus himself never wrote a thing and always pointed people back to original scripture as they were. You, now by contrast, equivocate, disparage scripture, create your own new writings and doctrines which deviate greatly from the first writings - all in the name of God. What's missing here? I wonder. Hmm... *How are you not a religionist? Because I have rejected the god of the philosophers and the gospel of men. I teach people to keep Jesus' commandments the best they can. etc. How about you, do "You happily put up with whatever anyone tells you, even if they preach a different Jesus than the one we preach, or a different kind of Spirit than the one you received, or a different kind of gospel than the one you believed?"* It's funny you would quote the scripture about a different Jesus. Let's see who's teaching about different Jesus ... > Where in the bible does it say that Jesus ever married like the LDS say? > Where in the bible does it say that Jesus Lucifer's brother like the LDS say? > Why do Mormons insist he was created when the bible calls him Creator. > Why do Mormons ignore that Jesus called himself "I AM." > Why do the Mormons ignore that the bible called him God? > Why do Mormons change Jesus' meaning that He is claimed to be one with God? > Why do the LDS sing Handel's Messiah on TV every Christmas in their SLC Temple calling him God? Now who's preaching a different Jesus, friend? You belong to the LDS and you say you have rejected the gospel of men? Seriously? All that doctrine that pours out of the LDS that is not scriptural and you don't call that a doctrine of men? I don't think so. The LDS epitomize this. You say you teach people to keep Jesus' commandments. What you teach is slavery to law. You live TO Jesus not FROM him.

[@CharlesMartel676]

That so grinds me that the LDS guy compares his hokey-pokey secret ceremonies in his temple to Catholicism. Wrong, sparky.

[@etiennebisset5642]

WOW! What this man is saying (and that is together with the LDS Church doctrine) is beautiful. The problem is it is not Biblical and not true, a different gospel according to the Apostle Paul.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

I was talking to a great friend today about the concept of Mormons still having a Prophet to guide and lead them in their lives. I thought for a moment, weren't the prophets of the old like the "mediator" to the people, giving them guidance and a voice from the Lord? Wasn't the High Priest, a "mediator" for the Jews to make sure that they were "redeemed of sin" through the lamb's blood? As I thought about this what surprises me is that Mormon theology teaches that they must have a "prophet" as a "mediator" still to be the voice to the people but what does the Holy Bible teach us in Hebrews 1: 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son. His Son, Jesus is our Mediator and our High Priest. It's All Him. To go back to a Prophet and a High Priest misses the mark on Jesus. Praise God for Jesus!

[@krametorgsite]

Correct Dave! If you look at all the prophets, from Moses to Jesus, John the Baptist was the last of the Old Testament prophets, and Jesus the first of the new. Note that the prophets were not all the same. In fact, if one looks at the life of Jesus, he never prophesied the creation of ANY single new doctrine that was not already in scripture. Unlike the LDS which create new doctrines that change the very nature of God on a rampant basis, Jesus only affirmed existing scripture calling us to a higher level to live by the spirit of the law, not the law itself. Further, he taught us ALL to go directly to Holy Spirit (Jn 14:26). In the New Covenant we ALL can hear Holy Spirit and so there is no need for a primary prophet. In fact, scripture confirms this in two places in the NT: 1. 1 Cor. 14:3, the purpose of personal prophecy is defined as: "But one who prophesies speaks to men for edification and exhortation and consolation (comfort)." None of these things speaks to the creating of doctrine or leading a church. None of these things implies that one person hears for all. In fact, Paul says he desired that all would prophesy (1 Cor. 14:5). And faith is required for all. Faith to hear correctly to speak a prophetic word, and faith to believe the word spoken over our lives and to pray it through until it happens - not giving up on the word or God to bring it about. I wonder, does personal prophecy even happen in the LDS? How can it if there is only one prophet? 2. 1 Cor. 14:29, shows the model for when a prophetic word is given corporately: "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted; and the spirits of prophets are subject to prophets; God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints." Pay close attention to this passage! The word used in this passage dealing with prophecy is "Prophets" plural. In particular there is this line "Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment" So we know there are at least 5 prophets because Paul instructs only 2-3 to speak during a single meeting, and then he tells the other prophet(S) (plural implies at least 2 more) should judge the word. So there should be no less than 5 prophets in the church, not one! Also, SEE THIS ---> It's the word that gets judged, not the prophet. Why would we need to judge the word unless people can get it wrong? Paul wisely leaves room for the judgment of a word and which specific Spirit that is being testified to. If it's not Jesus alone, it should be rejected. This is why we reject the LDS because the spirit that is testified is one that says Jesus is 'a' god, one less than the Father. Further, there is this line: "For you can ALL prophesy one by one, so that ALL may learn and ALL may be exhorted;" The only way this possible is if the Holy Spirit is in us, and if He is in us, ALL can prophesy, and ALL can hear God (men, women, children), ALL are empowered, not one "seated" (like Monson) above all the rest. I close with this thought: I hear the LDS say "Who leads the church then? Who hears for God or directs the church? First of all, to what end? More, new, doctrine? Why? What is not already known other than that which is outside of scripture? Additionally, is God not capable to speaking to all men? If so, why would he need to limit himself to one man? Isn't the greatest testimony of the Spirit of Unity that more than one man hears and all obey and agree? It's the difference of Christian, organic, bottom up vs. LDS Top-down. And isn't it a greater testimony that should God desire something that he speak it to more than one man to hear it or have the same dream? Of course it is. GOD can do that and if it truly IS God, he will. So there's no need for anyone, most of all LDS to be doctrine-makers. This is why the LDS must reject the Bible as inerrant because then there is no place to retreat. If the scriptures I quoted above are correct and inerrant, then all prophecy cannot be and the LDS cannot be the Doctrine Makers that they are. So they must cast doubt on the scripture so they can have Cowboy (go it alone) Church. LDS beloved? We get it! We see! There is no hiding these conveniently built systems of men from us. The question is, why don't you see? BTW: Has anyone heard Prophet Monson officially prophesy one thing?

[@mormonsson6173]

***** ...In the New Covenant we ALL can hear Holy Spirit and so there is no need for a primary prophet..Matt16 + John 21 says your soooooo very wrong,again! So you claim no need for a [ lead or chief ] prophet after Jesus?..hmmm ok......So Acts 10 or 11 is not valid ? I close with this statement, your full of S***........Acts1 + 3 +10..2 Cor 11 and Eph 2/20..... ohhh you blind fool! Ps...YOU POSTED this..>>>This is why we reject the LDS because the spirit that is testified is one that says Jesus is 'a' god, one less than the Father....>> MY reply answer ....Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself.....for my Father is greater than I....... YOU twist and deny the very words of Christ.....as a goood christian you are....bravo!

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Mormon Son, what you don't understand is that God the Father, who is Spirit is greater than the Flesh. It's in Mosiah 5 in your scriptures. I see so many Mormons use the same scripture but do not understand it. Here's yours: Mosiah 5: 1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people. 2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the dwill of the Father, being the Father and the Son- 3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son- 4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth. 5 And thus the flesh becoming subject to the Spirit, or the Son to the Father, being one God, How do you interpret this Mormon son? Read 5 again, over and over. It's all there. This shows that you don't even follow this doctrine, do you?

[@krametorgsite]

mormons son Dear LDS beloved, I would like to see your response to my brother, Dave. He asks a very good question that deserves an answer. I also know about all the scriptures you quoted. For I believe in the role of the apostles and prophets. And tho you think we do not, you are quite wrong. So you think your prophet and apostles are evidence of you "true church" do you? OK...well if that is true, your reply to the following questions will confirm that, dear one. The LDS seem to have taken, and quite literally so, the official office of the Apostles and the prophets. There is a President and Prophet in the LDS. There are apostles as well. This is your evidence, as you have stated. Why is it then that LDS are then inconsistent on the rest of the offices if it is the true church? Is it because Paul said Apostles and Prophets were first? Such vanity! And how did the LDS get it upside down? For 1 Cor. 12:28 says, First Apostles, SECOND Prophets, and then and then and then. How did the True Church manage to change this scripture to First Prophets, second Apostles? MORE: Where is the official office of the Evangelist? How about the Official Office of the Teacher? Or the Office of the Pastor? Are these not offices as well as Apostle and Prophets? LDS.com has no trouble listing all your white apostles and Prophet (singular) but why no pictures of the official Evangelist, Teacher and Pastor? And as long as your so beholden to scripture, this one is from Eph. 4:11. Where is the consistency from the "true" church on this? Again, I accept your scripture. Do you have answers for mine? And what does the bible say in 1 Cor. 14 concerning the role of the prophet in the New Covenant Church? Do you think all prophets are the same and act the same? OR did you not even notice that John was the last of the OT prophets and Jesus was the first of the new? Did you ever notice how different Jesus was than all other prophets before him. Did you notice Jesus never created or wrote a single doctrine? He only upheld the Word of God! Let that be a lesson to the LDS, creators of many 'thin air' doctrine. So, concerning the role of the NT prophet, you will find the answer to that in 1 Cor. 14:1-5. And what are the rules of the prophets? BTW: That's PROPHETS, PLURAL. You'll find rules for THEM, not him, referenced in 1 Cor. 14:29. I'm curious to see if you are consistent. You see, I'm confused by a church that professes that it alone is the "true" way, but then is rather sloppy in it's own application of scripture. Does 1 Cor. 14:29 not say let the "prophets" judge the prophet? Well, where are your prophets, friend? I see only 1 prophet who remains above reproach and is not judged by any other prophets for there is only one OFFICIAL prophet, isn't that so? As I said, I believe apostles and prophets are alive and well in his REAL Church today (which is Christianity). But not your church. And as soon as you read the scriptures above, you will soon know too. But will you have the guts to admit it? I hope so and pray that you will as well. I suggest you pray for wisdom and ask God sincerely, with all your heart before these scriptures to see if they are true. And if they are, what you should do about it. I wonder if you will or only do that for things published by Deseret. Blessings Beloved.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Idiot box, we know your basis of understanding, it's the same record that is continuous to be played. The fact is "biblical facts and theology". Once you know that "scripture interprets scripture" and the message of the bible coorelates perfectly well, those who are biblically discern read the falsesness of your theology. It makes no sense, no biblical sense. Because of this Biblical Christians will never agree with your theology, they would have to put aside the Holy Word to do so, that won't happen. But I do know God loves you.

[@1kidfromschool]

wait, hold on a second while I pull the microphone away just as you're making your point

[@jlcollins7673]

Because the guy interviewing him knows (25 years experience) of what being a Mormon means. He knows exactly how to combat every single thing the guys is saying. The fact that he is saying it is very similar to Catholicism speaks VOLUMES.

[@joepeaceman9064]

My Christian friends, you must understand that Jesus has established His Church again in these last days, and, as always, most people spend their time fighting that. The Church of Jesus Christ of LDS is closer to the Spirit of the original Apostolic Christianity than any other. For eg: Christianity taught deification, and Temples, and Baptism by immersion, and had Apostles, etc. etc. Temples have been a part of true Christianity since the beginning, and Jesus loved the Temple and had great zeal for His Father's House. It is sad that so many Christians reject the ancient Sacraments of the Temple.

[@joepeaceman9064]

And, in addition to rejecting and condemning True Christian beliefs, it is sad that nominal "Christians" today tend to spend so much of their time trying to catch people in their words and lead them away from their faith in Christ, the True and Living Christ.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Jesus is the Temple for us now. He is the Holy of Holy's...Hebrews 10: 19 Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, 20 by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, 21 and having a High Priest over the house of God, 22 let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Joe peaceman Your beliefs are not the correct beliefs. If baptism for the dead was significant why wouldn't there be a great deal more talked about it in the Bible? Scripture interprets scripture. For example, how many scriptures in the NT show that Faith is the way to be made righteous and enter into the Heaven? Over 150 scriptures...How about Grace? Over 60 scriptures. Now how about baptism for the dead? 1 scripture and what did Paul say, "they" not "we". You need to understand why he made that comment, not just believe. Study, do research. The answer is that in the beginning of Christianity there were many factions of believers not truly understanding the gospel and making up their own ideas to suit them, one of those groups was as Paul disclosed "they" not "us"...They were relying on their own ideas not God's...Hope this helps..

[@07nightingale]

Dave Bartosiewicz What godly wisdom Dave. People tend to forget that the letters Paul wrote to the early church in different cities was to encourage them but also to CORRECT them with the truth . Many were gentile and jews who had become christains yet thought they still had to follow the old traditions and laws in order to be a christain. Paul corrected them ,just as Peter, John , Silas,and others who were firm on the foundation of the gospel did . When God wants us to know something He says it once ,when it is very important He says it often .People err when they take scripture out of context in order to buffer the doctrines of their church.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Agreed, that's why the LDS faith follows this pattern. They do not take scriptures in context and don't understand the truth of the meaning..

[@AidanEthan7]

Well done from my Christian Brothers in Christ.

[@valuecalc]

A "healthful" debate is quite rare. I usually find that people just fight one another in the end. Still, it invites us to keep reading scripture even further.

[@jupiterinaries6150]

Yes, as an independent LDS, I agree. Also I'm a sola scripturist.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

After having this site up for over a year and a few months, there have been over 55,000 views, many are from Mormons and Christians. I have seen a great deal of hate from both sides. It troubles me. I do know that Mormons call all those biblical believers of Christ, "Anti-Mormons". This is a quick way to position any Christians in a negative way for Mormons and many won't listen to a word that many of us speak. How would Mormons like to be referred as "Anti-Christians" from us biblical Christians? I'm sure they wouldn't like it. Obviously Biblical Christians can refer to Mormons as this but really it serves no purpose. This is suppose to be a forum to help each other to understand one another perspectives and views. I know it's disheartening and many LDS believers hold on with their teeth believing what they think is true even when many biblical Christians validate a different response. My hope is that all try to validate and not just trust because of a culture, parents, a religion, church leaders, feelings, etc, but to really think and validate if what any of us have to say is really true. Reflection and searching the scriptures is what we are supposed to do. The Bible tells us to "test the spirits", to find the truth. I pray all may do this with true sincerity and love. God Bless. Dave

[@Bigchurchmusic]

Hi, it is all about the cross, and resurrection, in order to understand the true meaning of what the Lord Jesus did for us, we have to have the Holy Spirit to guide us into all truth. Please read 1 Corinthians 2:14. May Jesus bless your ministry.

[@krametorgsite]

David Flint AMEN David. And what is conspicuously missing from any Mormon building? The cross!

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Jay, I would be glad to challenge your position on the "restored church" in a loving way, if you are interested. I know that the Body of Christ are those who "believe" in the work of our Lord and Savior and one needs to be Born Again to enter into His Kingdom. I have had this experience and am His as well as millions upon millions of believers across the world. It's not a church but His Bride/Body that is His. We the believers are His Church. I know this to be true. In His loving Name, Jesus, Amen.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Jayman, I was a Mormon and I found out very differently. Jesus was the Last Prophet, He is the Only High Priest over the House of God. It is He that only has the Priesthood and now all those who are Born Again, which I am, receive His Spirit, His Authority, His Power to be an instrument in His Hands. Do you believe that those who are Born Again have His Spirit in them? As the Gospel teaches, we are now "Living Temples" and the people of God. Do you believe only Mormons have that or the whole body of Christ? If God lives in us, do we not have His Authority? Also, I would ask, Do you believe Jesus is a Good Shepherd or a Bad Shepherd?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Another verse that shows that Jesus is the Only Prophet now is: God’s Supreme Revelation 1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, 2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds;...No more need for Prophets of the Old...Jesus is the Last Prophet. and Luke 16:16New King James Version (NKJV) 16 “The law and the prophets were until John. Since that time the kingdom of God has been preached, and everyone is pressing into it. So you see that Jesus fulfilled the Law and also the Prophets. He being the Last. Your faith is based before Jesus Came. Makes no sense now.

[@onedayclosertohim7373]

Mormonism states Jesus, was a "created" being. "Birthed" of "heavenly parents". However, the Bible states, there are "created" things, and there are uncreated. Jesus, is THE creator, not a little "god" who is NOT worthy of Worship, not God at all in fact as nothing created, is worthy of worship.. So you say no? You really need to study the Bible and to understand how fully Jesus, the Word become flesh, creator God, who was existent before creation, the actual Agent of creation as we are told. Not a “widdle bitty piece here” and “oh another widdle bitty piece there”, lol. But all of creation as plainly taught in the Bible. How silly we can get when we choose to blind ourselves to the plainly taught to make your own meaning. A small bible study, if you will. There is no “mystery” that creation is spoken of as “all things”.. This is just one study and I could give you over and over the same thing as the Bible states the same thing, whether you want to accept it or not, well.. And so, let’s begin with His deity! I love that in any context: The Bible presents overwhelming evidence for the full deity of Jesus Christ, the Son of God (e.g., Dan. 7:9-14; John 1:1;8:58; 20:28; Titus 2:13; Heb. 1:3, 8; etc.). Further, the NT presents the Person of the Son as the very object of divine worship (e.g., Dan. 7:14; Matt. 14:33; John 20:28; Heb. 1:8; Rev. 5:13-14). In addition to these verifiable proofs of the Son’s deity, the NT shows that the Son was the very agent of creation. For if the Son were the actual Creator of all things, that would mean that He 1) existed before time, thus, He was not a “part” of creation, 2) co-existed with the Father, and hence, 3) is a distinct Person alongside of the Father, as co-Creator. Passages such as John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17; and Hebrews 1:2 and 10 exegetically affirm this important truth. And now, the death nell to your lack of understanding and teaching to others: I would love to speak to the context of John 1 3 in reference, keeping context as this is so important, line upon line, precept upon precept. We see in John 1, the Word of God, the pre-Incarnate Christ and He was before the beginning of creation, as He is infinite, and all of creation, is finite, He eternal, and I love this part, in the second part of the verse, He was with the Father, eternal God, the Son and the Father, face-to-face loving relationship. Verse 2 goes on to reiterate this concept again! Then we move on to this eternal Word, and the act of creation spoken of here in John, which was told us in John 1 1, in the beginning, He already was! But now we see, in context, the eternal Word, God, is in fact the agent of creation. In this verse we see, Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Creator God, the Word, and what part of creation did He create? as Creation here is regarded severally. The reference is to the infinite detail of creation, rather than to creation as a whole, which is expressed by τὰ πάντα, the all (Col_1:16). Also, in conjuction with the infinite detail of creation, we are given the phrase "ta panta" (the all things) as we have it in Rom_11:36; Col_1:16. So John also speaks again, as Paul, In Joh_1:10 John uses ho kosmos (the orderly universe) for the whole. . John 1:3: “All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.” In the prologue of John (vv. 1-14), note the verbal contrast between all things created or that had origin (signified by the verb egeneto, “came to be”; cf. vv. 3, 6, 10, 14) and the eternal divine Word (signified by the verb ēn, “was”; vv. 1, 2, 4, 9) In verse 3, we see the creative activity viewed as one event in contrast to the continuous existence in verses 1 and 2 (please see Robertson, Grammar, 5:5). The phrase panta di’ autou (“all things through Him”) denotes the role of the Logos in relation to God the Father and the world. What intensifies the argument even more is John’s usage of the Greek preposition dia (“through”) followed by the genitive autou (“Him”). This is a very significant aspect as to the exegesis of the passage. In Greek, dia followed by the genitive clearly indicates “agency” or “means.” The Apostle John communicates in a comprehensible way that the Son, the eternal Word, who was “with” the Father (1:1), is the Creator of all things. Then we have the wonderful negation of the second part of John 1 3 χωρὶς Without αὐτοῦ Him ἐγένετο Came Into Being οὐδὲ Not Even ἕν One Thing ὃ Which/That γέγονεν Has Come Into Being. NOT ONE THING CAME INTO BEING THAT CREATOR GOD DID NOT CREATE.. NOT ONE. Colossians 1:16-17: “For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things and in Him all things hold together.” Note the clear and forceful way Paul presents his argument: “By Him [en autō] all things [panta] were created . . . all things [panta] have been created through Him [di’ autou] and for Him [eis auton]. He is before all things [pantōn], and in Him all things [panta] hold together” (emphasis added). The following grammatical aspects pointedly codify Paul’s argument: 1. Along with John 1:3, Paul employs the neuter plural panta (“all things”), which indicates that the Son was the actual Creator of all things. Paul’s use of the articular panta (i.e., with the article, lit., “the all things”), rather than the more popular terms such as pas or pan, shows the unlimited sense of “the all things.” Paul also uses the neuter panta in Romans 8:28: “And we know that God causes all things [not a part of all things] to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.” Hence, Jesus created all things, not merely a part of all things as some cults will assert, but rather all things unlimited. 2. Paul utilizes three different Greek prepositions to amplify his affirmation that the Son was the Creator: All things were created “by/in Him” (en + dative in vv. 16 and 17); “through Him” (dia + genitive in v. 16); and“for Him” (eis + accusative in v. 16). 3. Finally, Paul specifically states that “all things” were created “through [dia] Him [autou]”(viz., the Son). As observed, when the preposition dia is followed by the genitive autou, it grammatically reveals that the Son was the Creator Himself. There is no stronger way in which Paul could have articulated that the Son was the actual Agent of creation. No friend, the Bible speaks of no silly concept of “He created this widdle bitty part”, lol. That is nonsense. LoveInJesus.

[@onedayclosertohim7373]

One Day Closer To Him I had a great day studying His Word and was reading some Greek scholars on several things as being just a student of His Word, as an old man learning Greek, I always check with other Greek scholars and look at many references to make sure, as this is eternity we are talking about. So, I just love what Robertson has told us.. Very similar to my post above. Yes, it is plain if you search His Word, if you want what He tells you, no matter the cost to your opinions. All things (panta). The philosophical phrase was ta panta (the all things) as we have it in 1Co_8:6; Rom_11:36; Col_1:16. In Joh_1:10 John uses ho kosmos (the orderly universe) for the whole. Were made (egeneto). Second aorist middle indicative of ginomai, the constative aorist covering the creative activity looked at as one event in contrast with the continuous existence of ēn in Joh_1:1 and Joh_1:2. All things “came into being.” Creation is thus presented as a becoming (ginomai) in contrast with being (eimi). By him (di' autou). By means of him as the intermediate agent in the work of creation. The Logos is John’s explanation of the creation of the universe. The author of Hebrews (Heb_1:2) names God’s Son as the one “through whom he made the ages.” Paul pointedly asserts that “the all things were created in him” (Christ) and “the all things stand created through him and unto him” (Col_1:16). Hence it is not a peculiar doctrine that John here enunciates. In 1Co_8:6, Paul distinguishes between the Father as the primary source (ex hou) of the all things and the Son as the intermediate agent as here (di' hou). Without him (chōris autou). Old adverbial preposition with the ablative as in Phi_2:14, “apart from.” John adds the negative statement for completion, another note of his style as in Joh_1:20; 1Jo_1:5. Thus John excludes two heresies (Bernard) that matter is eternal and that angels or aeons had a share in creation. Not anything (oude hen). “Not even one thing.” Bernard thinks the entire Prologue is a hymn and divides it into strophes.. The verb is second perfect active indicative of ginoma." Wasn't that great! How wonderful, plainly and expressive His Word is when we look into it.. I love God's Word, the Bible. Oh, just a side note on this last point by Robertson, the last part of the verse, and his reference to "ginoma(γέγονεν)", "Has Come Into Being" , as he noted, this is a verb in the perfect tense, indicative mood.. (I just love that God chose the Greek for the New Testament). The perfect tense in Greek is to my mind the most expressive. It expresses past completed action with presently continuing results. So descriptive Him creating "everything" and it was a "completed action" with of course continuing, for now, results, and it gets better, it is in the indicative mood which in English this is sometimes called the Declarative Mood for by it the writer is stating a declaration of fact! It is the mood of reality and the verbal idea is actual--it indicates what is true about the subject.. God is sooo good. I love I don't have to guess, I don't have to, and I am not supposed to put my opinions over what His Word plainly tells us and by studying His Word, the Bible, we can see, if we want to.. LoveInJesus

[@onedayclosertohim7373]

One Day Closer To Him truthseeker staats, Since you are a little reticent to read the larger post, let's look at Robertson again, the last post from last night, no son, your "opinion" is shallow and empty, and as anyone that has studied the Bible knows,,, well let's let this guy tell you,,, little shortened, lol.. so maybe you can follow it, although I know you "could" .. All things (panta). The philosophical phrase was ta panta (the all things) as we have it in 1Co_8:6; Rom_11:36; Col_1:16. In Joh_1:10 John uses ho kosmos (the orderly universe) for the whole. Were made (egeneto). Second aorist middle indicative of ginomai, the constative aorist covering the creative activity looked at as one event in contrast with the continuous existence of ēn in Joh_1:1 and Joh_1:2. All things “came into being.” Creation is thus presented as a becoming (ginomai) in contrast with being (eimi). By him (di' autou). By means of him as the intermediate agent in the work of creation. The Logos is John’s explanation of the creation of the universe. The author of Hebrews (Heb_1:2) names God’s Son as the one “through whom he made the ages.” Paul pointedly asserts that “the all things were created in him” (Christ) and “the all things stand created through him and unto him” (Col_1:16). Hence it is not a peculiar doctrine that John here enunciates. In 1Co_8:6, Paul distinguishes between the Father as the primary source (ex hou) of the all things and the Son as the intermediate agent as here (di' hou). Without him (chōris autou). Old adverbial preposition with the ablative as in Phi_2:14, “apart from.” John adds the negative statement for completion, another note of his style as in Joh_1:20; 1Jo_1:5. Thus John excludes two heresies (Bernard) that matter is eternal and that angels or aeons had a share in creation. Not anything (oude hen). “Not even one thing.” Bernard thinks the entire Prologue is a hymn and divides it into strophes.. The verb is second perfect active indicative of ginoma." Oh, just my small comment on the Greek, how wonderful and expressive, no wonder God chose it for the New Testament,, here ya' go, again: Wasn't that great! How wonderful, plainly and expressive His Word is when we look into it.. I love God's Word, the Bible. Oh, just a side note on this last point by Robertson, the last part of the verse, and his reference to "ginoma(γέγονεν)", "Has Come Into Being" , as he noted, this is a verb in the perfect tense, indicative mood.. (I just love that God chose the Greek for the New Testament). The perfect tense in Greek is to my mind the most expressive. It expresses past completed action with presently continuing results. So descriptive Him creating "everything" and it was a "completed action" with of course continuing, for now, results, and it gets better, it is in the indicative mood which in English this is sometimes called the Declarative Mood for by it the writer is stating a declaration of fact! It is the mood of reality and the verbal idea is actual--it indicates what is true about the subject.. God is sooo good. LoveInJesus

[@onedayclosertohim7373]

One Day Closer To Him truthseeker staats, here again, something a little shorter and hopefully, and I say this with sincerity,, I hope you can see.. well this is a wonderful tidbit from the Expositors Greek Testament... boy, says the same thing I said in my post, lol, and the Greek scholar Robertson.. so friend, I don't dislike you, you are not an enemy, you are lost in the heresies of the past and for some odd reason, friends,,, family,, job,, status of life.. I certainly don't know, but something keeps you from just agreeing with what He plainly says...anyway, I love reading and seeing Greek scholars expound on His Word, declare how exactly God wanted us to know. Joh_1:3. Πάντα διʼ αὐτοῦ ἐγένετο. The connection is obvious: the Word was with God in the beginning, but not as an idle, inefficacious existence, who only then for the first time put forth energy when He came into the world. On the contrary, He was the source of all activity and life. “All things were made by Him, and without Him was not even one thing made which was made.” The double sentence, positive and negative, is characteristic of John and lends emphasis to the statement.-πάντα, “grande verbum quo mundus, i.e., universitas rerum factarum denotatur” (Bengel). The more accurate expression for “all things” taken as a whole and not severally is τὰ πάντα (Col_1:16) or τὸ πᾶν; and, as the negative clause of this verse indicates, created things are here looked at in their variety and multiplicity. Wow,,, I made those same points in my original post above.. well this is a little shorter, maybe you will read it. LoveInJesus

[@onedayclosertohim7373]

One Day Closer To Him And here is the explanation of why you are in a cult from your lips, why you ignore what He says and place your understanding, over Him. "Any reader that cannot rationalise that God cannot exist in nothingness before creation is lost from the get go" Yes, someone, without the Holy Spirit, dead in their sins, feels they can "rationalise" what they want, they reject the wisdom of God, for their own.. They want to "make their god, just as small as them", "God if you don't explain this to my limited understanding, then by golly I am gonna reject what you say God, cause I can't rationalise it", lol.. So the words of one lost in a cult, explain how they got there and "who" is their God... "self".. Wow, that was priceless. How's that little "god of self" working out for ya? lol.. Yeah your god is puny, looks just like you..Ahh, that's right, Jesus say's it is you.. LoveInJesus

[@onedayclosertohim7373]

Sorry, you can't speak to the post in your lack of Bible study, not interested in your "rationalise" ."nuh uh" just isn't quite the exegetical response required.. LoveInJesus

[@donthedragonslayer888endti2]

The Mormon guy is wrong.... again 🤣

[@krametorgsite]

Dave, you are absolutely a class act! Anyone who says otherwise is just trying to tear you down. I see nothing in you that is contemptuous or deceitful. I just see a lover of Jesus doing the best he can. Bless you!

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Thank you brother and thanks for all your help in sharing the true gospel of Jesus. God Bless..Dave

[@hashaborgonja]

The guy did a prett bad job of presenting Mormon doctorine pertaining too faith and works. The concept is really simple: We are saved by Jesus through our faith, faith is shown through works. Thusly, by doung the works of Jesus we follow him, we show that we believe in him, and only through believing in him and doing his works can we be cleansed by him... A really simple concept...

[@MrAsap99]

Cleansed from sin by works? Friend, read the epistle of 1 John, it tells us how we are cleansed from sin. It isn't works.

[@hislittleman4593]

You are dead in your sins. How does a dead man cleanse himself? If you're talking about justification, then it is solely His blood and the cross which justifies. If you are talking about a Christian walking in Him, then the comment above applies, the epistles of John have a lot to say about the sin principle in all of us and being forgiven and cleansed from sin, after we are Christians. Works don't cleanse from anything for a Christian. It is simple, "if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness". Yes, that is simple,, it isn't works.

[@dariofelix3077]

So why all the extra stuff then.

[@krametorgsite]

LDS: If Jesus is literally the son of God, then why was Jesus called Immanuel, which means "God with us?" Why wasn't he called something else, which would've meant, "Son of God with us?" Matt 1:23

[@krametorgsite]

If Jesus is literally the son of God, then why was Jesus called Immanuel, which means "God with us?" Why wasn't he called something else, which would've meant, "Son of God with us?" Matt 1:23

[@krametorgsite]

truthseeker staats Please everyone look at this. --- > LOL...that is biggest load of lard ever seen. Talk about trying to have it both ways. He really means he is "A" god but won't say that because he means to deceive and just wants to be right, not have God any way he can. He, being an Obfuscator, left out that little detail out. So, let's translate all this into what he REALLY means... He is the literal Son of His Father *Tho he (literally) IS the Son too...." it is STRESSED in the name He is God as well. *But this is the guy who says Gen. 1 says they are two.... now he says they are one. He has to say they are one now because this verse doesn't fit his doctrine and when you make up stuff, you get toilet paper. He can't even stay true to his own plural godism long enough to say "He is (A) God" which is what he really meant all along.* So what we have here is the LDS "Immanuel," which means "God with us" but in the LDS world he is "a god with us, who is also the literal "son of god with us" who was "born from god having sex with Mary, with us," and is a god of a god and a god with a mommy, daddy and grandpa and gramma goddess with us." Isn't that just clear as mud? Then you're ready for Mormonism truthseeker staats = "Obfuscator with us'

[@JesusEternal]

truthseeker staats The last time you trumped anybody was never. You are the one who believes in Polytheism and admits it online. You want to try again? Do you worship Jesus?

[@JesusEternal]

truthseeker staats If you worship god number two and also worship god number one then that is Polytheism. That refers to the worship of or belief in multiple deities. I do worship Jesus and the Father and the Holy Spirit because they are God not a godhead of three gods. I am Monotheistic!

[@JesusEternal]

truthseeker staats Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them." Bible lesson time! JEHOVAH is Jesus and Mormons do not even deny that! Jesus is saying He is God Almighty! Abraham worshiped God Almighty that was Jesus and not as a Savior! HA!

[@conartist267]

Thief on the cross didn’t do any missionary work. Buggar!

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

After doing over 163 Videos for almost 3 years now, I believe there are so many vast differences of Mormonism vs Christianity. One of the most recent Videos I've done is about the Renting (tearing) of the Veil...I ask everyone, Why would God rent the Veil in two? What was the purpose of that? If you fully understand it, there's no way you can be a Mormon and accept your temple with its rituals to save you in the highest kingdom...It makes no sense and is absolutely contrary to Jesus...Stop diminishing Him and accept Him completely without a "but"...God Bless. kzbin.info/www/bejne/kHmmfYxri95-nNU

[@abelnap0725]

Dave Bartosiewicz well said dave. I once was a mormon and these very logical inconsistencies were too much for me to continue swallowing.

[@krametorgsite]

***** Absolutely not! Why would you say this. _"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God's curse!"_ Gal. 1:8. Time or membership were not added disclaimers to this verse. Once a cult always a cult.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

***** I would echo what ***** said. I think Ravi Zacharias, editor of "Kingdom of the Cults", defined what a "cult" is in the historic Christian sense, and the LDS unequivocally are defined by this quote in their theology: "Classical historic Mormonism has to answer this, question, when the Christian uses the word cult. "A" Christian not generally speaking, when the Christian uses the word cult. A cult is generally defined as that which claims to be rooted in historic Christianity but has deviated or abandoned the finished work of Christ or compromised on his person. That’s the definition.""I think that it is critical we understand, that Jesus said, we are complete in Him, and when you add or detract you can give yourself whatever name you want, but you're impugning the completed work of Christ on the cross. Ok, so there are other titles you one can give to those faiths but it is not historic Christianity at that point." As ***** mentioned, neither time nor membership can negate a teaching that is so far away from what we Christians believe... Yes they can be "wonderful" folks. I have been blessed to have 3 close LDS friends in life, but the issue is, "Who is Jesus?", is He God?, not a created being "birthed of heavenly parents in heaven, but the eternal Word become flesh, and is His blood alone enough to totally justify, ransom from sin, from all sin, or do you add anything to this. They fail that test. LoveInJesus

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

***** An analogy maybe helpful. Let's say a group of people in the 1800's said that they have another Old Testament, that books you consider to be scripture are in error and none of your synagogue's are correct. They claim they are "not" Jews and are against your beliefs(orthodox).. They also deny in their "scriptures" that God is the everlasting God, they say He was a man at one time that "progressed" to be "god" and has a physical body and lives on a planet next to a star... No I am not making this up. They say He is not "spirit" but has a physical body like you and I and has many wives which He has "spirit" babies with.. So following so far? Up to this moment, they claim they are not Orthodox Jews, and you are just in error because of your "orthodox" views.. Now, let's forward to modern times, where now these same followers want to say, "I am an orthodox Jew, they had it all wrong, my "books and teachings are correct", theirs are correct only insofar as they have been "translated correctly".. but bear in mind, they never say, how they are "mis-translated", just a general dispersion on them... Now keep in mind, they have not renounced their complete denial of what we Christians certainly see as orthodox Judaism(whether you are one or not, this is an analogy to show perspective), and I think our view of the Old Testament in the regards that it teaches whom the creator is, are very similar.. He is Almighty God, never a man, who needs nothing as the heavens cannot contain Him.. So now these "Jews", because hey, they are nice folks! Can be nice neighbors, do a lot of good, well they say, they are Jews now, still denying the tenets of Judaism... So.. friend... if we would say to you, "hey don't ya' think it is time they were considered Jews in essence"... Tell me, what would your response be? It goes on further with historic Christianity, as Ravi Zacharias mentioned, they "ALSO" deny who we Christians state Jesus is. We believe He was also eternal, never "birthed" from "heavenly parents" as Mormonism claims.. So friend, I hope this simple analogy helps you to see how we feel about their claim of "another gospel", whatever the degree of orthodoxy you espouse to, I think the picture is very accurate and clear and can understand why Christians are so adamant about exposing them. By the way, I hold dearly the friendship of Israel and many of we Christians do pray for you and your nation.. Peace be with you. LoveInJesus

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

***** Forgive me for a reply with thought and content.. Guess it's easier to post something without understanding what you are speaking about. Thanks and hope this was short enough. Forgive me. LoveInJesus.

[@PeterKruseMusic]

I'm definitely not Mormon and never will be, but the Mormon makes better sense here. Jesus said follow me, be my disciple and give to the poor rather than some sort of "fire insurance" Christianity.

[@bethechangeyouwannaseeinth9488]

well said..and ı never believe or understand trinity...so mormon makes kind of..but with many many heavenly father..ooo it is like a sci movie....

[@nowimthis]

well said, Peter

[@nowimthis]

well said, Peter

[@jiraiya4852]

Tod Wilkinson r u Mormon? Wilkinson?

[@krametorgsite]

Yes he is, but a rather uninformed one at that. Like most Mormons, he presents little opposition to what I think are Mormonism's indefensible doctrines, history and leaders.

[@hislittleman4593]

Works? We are His workmanship created to do them after I am in right relationship with Him. Once dead in sins, but NOW? But God! Eph 2:4.. I love that,, But God... Thank you Lord!! But God!! Eph 2:1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. Eph 2:4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Eph 2:5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Eph 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

[@stuartsc01]

@HisLittle Man...... How long would you figure we've known each other..... couple a years???

[@hislittleman4593]

stuartsc01 in context of the scriptures I posted, is there a question.

[@stuartsc01]

HisLittle Man It's a simple question a honest man should be able to answer. You're a honest man, right Oneday?? Not withstanding all the times you accused my brethren of spamming your posts over on Krame's vid.... even though there was no way of knowing if they were spammed by man or machine... or the religious affiliation of man or machine. And there was the time about a week ago when you posted to me that you never accused anyone of spamming your posts even though part of that converstion is still up on Krame's vid. (So sorry friend, I don't think anyone spammed me,). Could it be you know what the NEXT question is gonna be?? Here's a hint.... it will reveal another mistruth by someone here.

[@hislittleman4593]

stuartsc01 you know,, your accusations grow old. I fully explained this to you already. Your reasonings and schemes and character slander is to be frank, sad at this point. I am not going over the same thing because you want to do this again and have nothing of substance to say, so think this is how you will attack someone again. That is why I responded in the way I did. You have become a bitter, unforgiving little heart Stuart who can only, in your mind, point to someone's supposed sin by you. Dave Bartosiewicz , Stuart can only attack personally again and again. It isn't any real issue he wants to speak of, just another accusation against ***** , as he cannot say anything against the wisdom he brings, so over and over attempts to discredit by slander... This is just his latest attempt...He is about as transparent as his character has become shallow. He wasn't this way, but is an example of the "root of bitterness" that can turn a heart when an unforgiving heart nurses supposed grudges, real or imagined.. Sorry Stuart, I am NOT playing your games. Say something of substance. Quit the slander, quit the slander!

[@stuartsc01]

HisLittle Man Oh please.....these are not personal attacks. These are posts of yours and Krames that anyone in the WORLD can check out. You remind me of my son when he was a teenager. He would tell a lie, then get caught, then lie about telling the lie and when all else fails...... would turn it all around on the one catching him in the lie..... as you have done. See how you go running to Dave to engage in character assassination on ME because YOU got caught in a multiplicity of deceit??? FACT......Krame claimed to be a prophet in his thread. FACT......Krame denies claiming to be a prophet here. FACT......Oneday accuses LDS of spamming in Krame's thread. FACT......Oneday denies accusing LDS of spamming here. Hey look Oneday..... I told you weeks ago I had witnesses and YOU said bring 'em on. Just doin' whatcha said to do. They pm'd me the posts. It's just terribly sad......if not a little funny to see people who are so wrapped up in the grandeur of their own Christianity...claiming only THEY have the Holy Spirit to simply lie, lie about lying when they're so....so bad at it. To make matters worse.....You treat the owner of the video (Dave) like a fool, taking advantage of his good nature. If you guys weren't such horrible examples of what a Christian should be..... you could attract a crowd over on the video you guys already have. But you ran everybody off. Nobody will post there. It's now the same here. The only voice of opposition to you guys is basically me and all I'm doing is holding a mirror up to you. It rather burns..... doesn't it?? Like sunlight to a vampire. You guys made your beds. Cowboy up and live with it or...... God forbid....CHANGE!!!!!

[@corybritton1966]

"We're not saved by works, but we're not saved by belief in Jesus and grace alone" the classic mormon conundrum. This cannot be reconciled. This in essance makes no sense!!! Then he goes on the reveal his universalist beliefs!!! Mormons are so confused as well as confusing

[@krametorgsite]

You have heard the Christians here say, Mormons believe in a different Jesus. Now, read how the Mormons agree and say the same thing: "In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints 'do not believe in the traditional Christ.' 'No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak'" (LDS Church News, week ending June 20, 1998, p.7). "It is true that many of the Christian churches worship a different Jesus Christ than is worshipped by the Mormons or The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints" (LDS Seventy Bernard P. Brockbank, Ensign, May 1977, p.26 ). Thank you for proving us correct again. We believe in Jesus of the bible and the LDS believe in their little cartoon 'g'-sus.

[@razztazz1982]

krametorg They believe in a different God too.

[@yaruqadishi8326]

Who is the same as Satan the prince worship State and their hell father is also Satan so they're cold front is demonically evil from the very beginning

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

I think the hardest thing that I have to deal with in this state and my pet peeve is that Mormons really are "elitists" and "seperatists" from the body of Christ and declare their way is the only way one can get to God. Almost all denominations and believers in the Word of God know that when we die, we will be with God, meaning God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. Mormonism teaches that Christians who have a relationship with Jesus will be able to go to His Kingdom, the second Kingdom, but will not be able to be with God, the Father, unless they go through the Mormon way. Really? Really? Really? This is so much of a departure from the "real truth in the word and certainly creates an "elitist view" of how they believe Christians are just not good enough no matter what they do to be with God. I would love your comments on this. God Bless.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

I had no idea that was taught. Thanks brother. I freely admit I am not good enough to be with God,, but then we aren't counting on our righteousness are we (;-}. Having taken all my failure and nailed it to the cross! Now, forgiven, cherished, loved, just as if I had never sinned, moved from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of Light. Nothing, no nothing can ever separate us from His love,, well let's let Him say it, He is so much better at telling us, Jesus! Lord God Almighty! The English Majority Text Rom 8:38 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, Rom 8:39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

[@stuartsc01]

Dave Bartosiewicz.....How is that any different than the way Christians think of everyone else..... that only THEY will be with God. Almost all denominations and believers in the Word of God know that when we die, we will be with God, Unless you're a Jew, Muslim, Mormon, JW..... etc.

[@07nightingale]

Hey Dave you better clarify that you mean the Word of God as the Bible because there are always those who will add their idea on what you meant . The Bible states many times in various ways that Jesus would never let the gates of hell prevail over his church leading to a total apostasy (Isaiah 40:8; Psalms 100:5; Matthew 16:18, 24:35; 1 Peter 1:23-25). How could this statement be true if Jesus’ Church ceased to exist for almost two millennia? So any church who claims that the Church needed to be restored from an apostasy is not a part of the first Church which started long ago in Jerusalem at Pentecost. Given the Mormon church claims a complete apostasy, it cannot be traced back to the original church. Jesus said in Matthew 18:16 that upon this rock He will build his church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it. The rock is Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 10:4; Romans 9:33; Psalm 18:2; 62:6-8, 78:35, 94:22; 2 Samuel 22:2) and if the church ever fell into complete apostasy as Mormons claim, then Jesus would have been made a liar. In Acts 20:28, Luke declared: ”Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.” The church belongs to God because it was purchased with His own blood. God did not purchase a physical building with his blood, he purchased you and me. The Mormon Church makes an exclusive claim to be the only true church, yet the Bible is clear the true church is not an exclusive claim to be had by a particular denomination or church, but that the true church is inclusive and found in the hearts of the body of believers in Christ. The teaching of a true church being a religious institution with a specific name, authority, etc. creates conformity of people whose identity lies in its institution, leaders and themselves rather than in Christ alone. Being apart of the body of believers in Christ, my identity, my righteousness and my hope lie completely and solely in Christ and His finished work on the cross. The true church will never add to or subtract from, but always hold firm in the essential doctrines of Christianity. These being: The deity of Christ (both God and Man); Salvation (eternal life with God) by grace alone through faith alone; the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ; that there is only one God (period); and the trinity (Father, Son, and Holy Ghost) are three separate persons in one Being. The understanding of Salvation , God , the cross ,will not be different for it is the Holy Spirit who has revealed the truth to His Body since the Ascension.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Stuart, No believers in Christ believe that they are going to a 2nd Kingdom only with Jesus and not having God the Father there too. When we see God, we see All three in One. If God, the Father is not with us, we are in hell. Does this make sense to you? Mormonism seperates God and makes Him more of an elitist and discriminates His children. This makes absolutely no sense to believers in God. I hope this makes further sense to you and your theology.

[@stuartsc01]

Dave Bartosiewicz When we see God, we see All three in One. . Can you elaborate?

[@alexleonard2819]

Mr. Dave, As much as you want to believe that you were a member of our church; you clearly did not understand one thing. That conversion comes from the manifestations of the Holy Ghost and not by your hours of studying or your knowledge of the scriptures. Clearly you misunderstood the simplest doctrine there is because you are blinded by your pride. If for 25 years you professed being a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and now have turned away. Your decision will affect your salvation. Luckily you can still be saved if you turn to God and his only restored church in these latter days. Tell me Dave how willing would you be to give up your life for Christ? As for your question about Missouri. No sooner after receiving that revelation did the Lord reveal that it was not yet time to establish Zion for not even the members of the church at that time were ready.

[@AlbertJLouie]

Here are some real important questions that you should be asking: 1. The Book of Mormon is written in so called "reformed Egyptian" language. Where is the linguistic evidence for this language? If no evidence, then the whole Book of Mormon is a lie made up by Joseph Smith. 2. Why isn't there any archeological evidence to support any stories that is in the Book of Mormon? To this day there isn't anykind of archeological evidence to support any stories that is in the Book of Mormon. Again, if no evidence, then the whole Book of Mormon is a lie made up by Joseph Smith.

[@etrigueros]

You are a little sided in your interview, interrupting the mormon guy a lot more and asking more questions to him (not very good for comparison). Clearly you had an agenda.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

Ed Trigueros So Ed... Mormons don't have an "agenda" when they send out thousands of young boys to proselytize others? How disingenuous of you Ed... Of course Dave Bartosiewicz has an agenda, it is to reach the lost for Jesus. A secondary thought is, I think if Dave had not had to keep saying to Craig, "it's ok, just be honest", trying to get the real beliefs out of Craig, he wouldn't have had to interrupt him as much, nor have to put the real beliefs over the video in captions.... That is just my opinion though. LoveInJesus

[@etrigueros]

OneDayCloserToHim Of course, every church has an agenda! But that's not the agenda I was referring to. He titles the video " a healthy debate." I though the healthy debate will be a good starting point for me to compare/contrast belief systems. I don't think that was his real intent, but to ridicule/expose the other church. He is in his right to do so...but choose a title like: why mormons are wrong or why I left the mormon church instead or the evil of mormonism. Personally, I'm not interested in those videos because spending energy and time criticizing other churches speaks clearly about someone's character. It seems like you know this guy and thank you for showing me the path I mustn't take.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

Ed Trigueros How easily you excuse your accusations and judgment while you do the same thing although your accusation of ridicule is your opinion and don't see it at all. He did expose some of the errors of Mormonism, for that I am grateful.. Again, he treated Craig with kindness and dipolmacy and if Craig hadn't been asked several times "it's ok, just be honest", then I don't believe Craig would have had to continue to press on several of his questions, finally resorting to just posting what Mormonism teaches as he couldn't get it out of Craig. Your choice to follow it or not, and some folks don't care if they follow a lie, they have another "agenda" as you label it and truth doesn't seem to be a necessary requirement. LoveInJesus

[@etrigueros]

OneDayCloserToHim Yeah you're right, it is up to me, so I'm not going to waste my time watching such videos. You are just making me like the mormons! I think I'll invite those duds to see what they have to say for themselves. I don't want information from such a bias interview. Have a good night sir.

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

OneDayCloserToHim To remove this from the subjective, I would love to address some of the fallacies of Mormonism as well as Dave Bartosiewicz might I imagine.. Pick one. Mormonism teaches Jesus was born of heavenly parents, Christianity says Jesus was uncreated, eternally God without beginning and without end. Mormonism says the atonement was in the garden, while the Bible clearly says it alone is at the cross. Mormonism claims a priesthood to the male members which is unfounded according to scripture. Mormonism teaches you can be married in heaven and the Bible clearly states there is no marriage in heaven but the Bride, which are believers in Christ and the Bridegroom, Jesus... Shall I go on? Which one would you care to discuss? I know you have called Dave Bartosiewicz motives into question and I don't know Dave personally but I know he was a Mormon for over 20 years and has a heart to reach the LDS for Jesus. So maybe it would be better if he speaks with you and perhaps he will, but I would love to move this from the subjective, how you perceive the video and how I perceive it and to what really is the truth. Thanks for your time. LoveInJesus

[@darrellshoup]

Great work Dave. I continue to enjoy your ministry.

[@krametorgsite]

Sorry LDS Beloved...scripture does not support your LDS view that men can become gods or that God is plural. One Father x One Son x One Spirit = one God. So then, about eating food sacrificed to idols: We know that “An idol is nothing at all in the world” and that “*There is no God but one.*” (NOT TWO, THREE OR INFINITE) For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”), *yet for us there is but one God*, the Father, *from whom all things came and for whom we live*; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, *through whom all things came and through whom we live.* 1 Cor. 8:4-6. So all things came from the Father. Wait! Then all things came from Jesus! There is only one way this can happen...One Father, One Lord, One God!

[@krametorgsite]

truthseeker staats Here you go doctrine seeker Book of Mormon evidence that men can become gods. Here's what the LDS believe... It is "obvious" only to the LDS that the Bible is not very definitive on whether men can become gods or the multiple gods concept. This is reinforced by another biased LDS statement "These passages can be interpreted in different ways." So it makes sense, only to LDS, to look at what the Book of Mormon says on the topic as the BOM "was translated more plainly and perfectly" so there should not be such confusion as in the Bible. Here's what the LDS say (LOL) Unfortunately, the Book of Mormon does not say anywhere that men can become gods or that multiple gods exist. This is very strange for the book that is the 'keystone of our religion' and the one meant to clarify the confusion in the Bible. To the contrary, the BOM contradicts the idea of multiple gods. Amulek contended with the diabolical Zeezrom: "And Zeezrom said unto him: 'Thou sayest there is a true and living God?' And Amulek said: 'Yea, there is a true and living God.' Now Zeezrom said: 'Is there more than one God?' And he answered, 'No' " (Alma 11:26-29. Oh shucks! Guess we'll just have to make it up from here. LOL!!! And so you and they have this in common...you make God in your own image because you have nothing else.

[@krametorgsite]

truthseeker staats You're still trying to have a relationship with a theology, I see. A sort of "Father," "Son" and Holy Bible trinity. You seem to worship the words of the book the apostles didn't have more the the Spirit they did have. Typical anti-spirit religionist.

[@krametorgsite]

Avenged- Sevenfold I think that's why he follows and is part of some kind of twilight zone church. It's waaaaaaaaaaaay out there. I always tell him how his scriptures fit my paradigms, but he can't do the same. He's still whimpishly seeking a relationship with his partial theologies, and ignores any scriptures that do not fit his biased polytheistic paradigms.

[@krametorgsite]

Actually, the word says that it is the other so called "gods" that are subject to Him to prove THEY are real, not the other way around. But that said, scripture is clear about our God, that there is no other. *Can you show me from scripture that the belief that others who are God exist is a sin or even not true?* "“You are my witnesses,” declares the Lord, “and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. *Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me."* Isa. 43:10

[@JesusEternal]

Avenged- Sevenfold Jesus is LORD and our creator. Should we worship Him? Psalm 95:6 Come, let us bow down in worship, let us kneel before the LORD our Maker. Well, there is it is in the Bible we are to worship or LORD and creator Jesus! Looks like I have kicked TS ass so much he has blocked me. I dont see any of his comments. That is a block. Now why do you think he would do that?

[@CaptainMacNasty]

As an atheist, I notice no atheist in the debate. But to be honest, an atheist's input would be really boring: "Uhh...well, if I died tonight, i would probably lay around for a few days until somebody noticed that I hadn't showed up at work, or that I was gettin' kinda stinky. Then I guess somebody would take me to a funeral home to get processed and buried. And,,,that's about it."

[@CaptainMacNasty]

*****-True. But, Mormons are Christians, so the title is kind of Dave B making a dig at LDS folks...implying that they're not Christian.

[@CaptainMacNasty]

***** Sigh...i was just making a little joke. Anyway, have a nice life!

[@CaptainMacNasty]

*****- Ha! Good response. :)

[@drebel4bodypositivity336]

This poor man is being attacked.....the interviewers asked soooooooo many questions and all of the sudden stopped him and says you've had a lot of minuets let's give these guys a chance....what on earth?

[@MrTaser99]

well he did give him the most time to express what lds believe so whats the problem?why cant the christians have a chance as well? no one is being attacked.

[@krametorgsite]

Gotta agree with +MrTaser99 here. That guy is no victim...so why are you attempting to make him out to be one?

[@MrTaser99]

***** my assumption david marsh may be an LDS member himself and maybe he feels threatened by christian faith?

[@krametorgsite]

MrTaser99 There is no doubt. He's also not interested in hearing opposing opinions so don't expect him to reply.

[@SloanWentzell]

I agree with +david marsh here the interviewer asked so many questions. Maybe if he hadn't asked that many questions the lds guy would have responded as briefly as the other christians. Mormonism shouldn't be another religion similar to christianity, it should be seen as an addition to already established rules of the bible. There is no doubt that the interviewer disagreed with the lds mormon as seen by his low-key attacking and debating through questions and annotations. I think it's cowardly to fight the mormon through annotations. These annotations give viewers a one-sided view without the opportunity for the mormon to defend himself. Also, why are there two christians and only one mormon? You can see how the interviewer leans on the other christians for help to back up his points opposing the lds beliefs. The discussion would be so much better if we had someone who was actually un-biased as the interviewer and an equal amount of people on the opposing parties. BTW you guys ARE supposed to reply to this comment idc if you're a troll or not because trolls accidentally leak their true beliefs too. Also before we move on please state your own belief. For example, I'm atheist, +david marsh is mormon until proven otherwise.

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Questions that I would like to ask Mormons? Would love your sincere answering of these questions: 1. Why does the Mormon Church still teach that Joseph Smith was a true prophet of God after he made a false prophecy about a temple being built in Missouri in his generation (Doctrine and Covenants 84:1-5)?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

2. Since the time when Brigham Young taught that both the moon and the sun were inhabited by people, has the Mormon Church ever found scientific evidence of that to be true (Journal of Discourses, 1870, v.13, p.271)?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Dave Bartosiewicz 3. Why did Brigham Young teach that Adam is “our Father and our God” when both the Bible and the Book of Mormon (Mormon 9:12) say that Adam is a creation of God (Journal of Discourses, Apr. 9, 1852, vol.1, p.50)?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Dave Bartosiewicz 4. If Brigham Young was a true prophet, how come one of your later prophets overturned his declaration which stated that the black man could never hold the priesthood in the LDS Church until after the resurrection of all other races (Journal of Discourses, Dec. 12, 1854, 2:142-143)?

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Dave Bartosiewicz 5. Since the Bible’s test to determine whether someone is a true prophet of God is 100% accuracy in all his prophecies (Deuteronomy 18:20-22), has the LDS Church ever reconsidered its teaching that Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were true prophets

[@DaveBartosiewicz]

Dave Bartosiewicz 6. Since the current LDS prophets sometimes contradict the former ones, how do you decide which one is correct?

[@richardholmes7199]

Notice how the guy with the microphone has a problem with the Mormons talking about works!

[@JulieHollar]

Our good works earning us anything CANCELS OUT what Jesus did ...

[@nicolelovesjesusgod7673]

He has a problem with lies. A Christian does good works because we are already saved . Not some weird Mormon Temple crap

[@lesterrivers8804]

Richard Holmes I think Jesus has a problem with Mormons works , because if works save you . He (Jesus ) died in vain .

[@richardholmes7199]

@@lesterrivers8804 You're not Catholic, are you?

[@lesterrivers8804]

Richard Holmes no , I don’t worship idols and don’t follow men . ( follow the prophet , follow the prophet hi knows the way . I follow Jesus and only Jesus . I don’t praise any man ( praise to the men who commute with Jehovah his is the glory bla bla bla ) and the only and true God doesn’t share hit glory e no one , YOU will never be a god . Ask Satan , Adam and Eve how wanted to be like worked for them .

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

Mormonism say's Jesus had a 'beginning", however, the Bible say's Jesus was, is and will always be,, God, from everlasting to everlasting as the Father as the Holy Spirit, for God has no beginning and no end. The Holy Spirit knew of this conflict which we would have with those who "claim' another gospel, which is no gospel at all as if you do not believe, Jesus is who He says He is, the great "I AM", simply put, that He is God, you will die in your sins. The words 'I am he" are in the Greek the great statement of God that Jesus used in so many other places, (as for example in John 8:24), that the 'Word' of God spoke to Moses when asked who should I say sent me "ἐγώ I" "εἰμι Am". The Jews new of a certainty what He was claiming. He was God, equal with the Father in being God. There is no ambiguity, other than what Mormonism tries to portray. John_8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." So, as I mentioned, the Holy Spirit, being God knows the conflict we would have with those in error and provided this for us to shine a light on the lie. Jesus is God, the Almighty, not a little "god", but THE GREAT GOD Tit 2:13 "Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of THE GREAT God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;" Tit 2:13 "προσδεχομενοι την μακαριαν ελπιδα και επιφανειαν της δοξης του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου" The Godhead of Jesus Christ is here laid down in a most solemn and explicit manner: He is “the great God and Savior of-us Jesus Christ”, “του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου” Human language can go no higher, and the expressions are such, and are so placed, that it is impossible either to misunderstand or to misapply them. He who is the great God, higher than the highest, is our Savior; he who is our Savior is the great God; Jesus Christ is our Savior, and Jesus Christ is here stated to be the great God. The English does not convey how “great” this “great” is. This is the word μεγαλου ( megas ) , from which we get our word, "mega" Thayer and Strong define as μεγαλου (megas) as: exceedingly, great (-est), high, large, loud, mighty, 1) great 1a) of the external form or sensible appearance of things (or of persons) 1a1) in particular, of space and its dimensions, as respects 1a1a) mass and weight: great 1a1b) compass and extent: large, spacious 1a1c) measure and height: long 1a1d) stature and age: great, old 1b) of number and quantity: numerous, large, abundant 1c) of age: the elder 1d) used of intensity and its degrees: with great effort, of the affections and emotions of the mind, of natural events powerfully affecting the senses: violent, mighty, strong 2) predicated of rank, as belonging to 2a) persons, eminent for ability, virtue, authority, power 2b) things esteemed highly for their importance: of great moment, of great weight, importance 2c) a thing to be highly esteemed for its excellence: excellent 3) splendid, prepared on a grand scale, stately Yes! He is The Exceedingly-Greatest-Highest-Largest-Mighty-Beyond Compare-Strong-Important-Splendid-Grand-Majestic God and Savior of us, Jesus Christ. Or as Wesley stated so succinctly: “Titus 2:13 Looking - With eager desire. For that glorious appearing - Which we hope for. Of the great God, even our Saviour Jesus Christ - So that, if there be (according to the Arian scheme) a great God and a little God, Christ is not the little God, but the great one.”

[@ninnyhammer9829]

I am a Mormon , an LDS, a Christian ) a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints..that Brother is right :) you will not understand everything about us.. unless you see the whole picture.. there is so many explanation and question .. you can't answer all your question in just one shot.. learning about the gospel is grace by grace, precept unpon precept.. we can't understand the complicated gospel..unless you know the basic one.. :) ..if you want to know all about us.. read our scriptures. attend our sunday meeting.. and you will know about us.

[@krametorgsite]

ninny hammer Hi Ninny You wrote: "we can't understand the complicated gospel..unless you know the basic one" It's not complicated until it gets to the doors of the LDS who change the word of God to make into something it is not. For example, the LDS church says we are saved by "grace after all we can do." The definition of grace defined by both the Bible and Webster's is "unmerited favor." In other words, it cannot be earned in any way. Do you deny that that grace is key principle of the faith and that if we define wrong, we mislead people? To that point, 2 Neph 23:25 says that "we are saved by grace, after all we can do." Isn't it fair to say that the LDS have a different definition of grace if it's only available to us AFTER "all we can do?" What's more, doesn't the BoM's definition of Grace complicates the pure and precious teaching of grace? After all, it's stops being grace if it's earned in any way. The grace of Jesus is said to be completely unearned. "And if by grace, then it cannot be based on works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace." Rom. 11:6.

[@Aclaw1966]

***** the LDS church teaches to follow the Savior's example, rather than just accept the Atonement. faith without works it dead, bla bla insert scripture reference here, bla bla. To be honest, I think it's hypocritical to just say you believe in Christ's Atonement, while on the side, you break the commandments. I'm not speaking to you, I'm speaking in general. Does that sound right? The LDS church does not disagree that by grace alone we are saved, but to add on to it, that our works will determine where we stand in heaven.

[@krametorgsite]

a clawson LDS are not saved, blah blah blah...they are not filled with the Holy Spirit, blah blah blah, and not following God's word, insert scriptures here, blah blah blah.

[@Aclaw1966]

***** blah blah blah yes we are blah blah correction: Holy Ghost blah scripture blah. This pretty much sums up every stinking argument on youtube. :) #imsodonewiththis

[@ninnyhammer9829]

:) still.. I am proud to be an LDS... I am proud of my faith.I love being an LDS..I don't care what other think about us. :)all we care is we love Jesus, we praise Jesus, we follow Jesus ..our church is church of Jesus.. Amen :D

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

So in Dave's interview the LDS gentleman stated, "Nobody when they die is ready to go into heaven or not into heaven".. Really? The Bible states, it is by His blood alone I am made righteous, you are either dead in your sins, (LDS person), or alive in Christ, forgiven, accepted in the beloved.. You LDS really miss so much. Let's look today at the LDS failure to understand "Atonement". 1)Atonement Mormon BYU professor Robert J. Matthews, who on page 282 of his book, A Bible! A Bible!, wrote, "It was in Gethsemane, on the slopes of the Mount of Olives, that Jesus made his perfect atonement by the shedding of his blood-more so than on the cross." Obviously Christians believe, caps for emphasis, Col 1:20 “And, having made peace through the BLOOD OF HIS CROSS , by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven”2) Shall we see what else the Bible says about “atonement”. The word atonement is translated 1 time in the KJV New Testament in Rom 5:11. This is the Greek word καταλλαγὴν. The lemma of this word is καταλλαγὴ, which is simply “reconciliation”. (for those interested, “lemma” linguistically is a word considered as its citation form together with all the inflected forms. For example, the lemma “go” consists of go together with the inflected forms goes, going, went, and gone).3)Really all we have to do is look at the many verses about Jesus's blood on the cross or, the context of the only verse in the NT that has the word “atonement” to show the truth. Context explains so much when studying the bible. But let's look at this word closely. We will look at the verse in context after looking at the word “atonement”. There are 3 inflections of this word in the New Testament and 4 total occurrences. Rom 11:15 καταλλαγὴ , Rom 5:11 καταλλαγὴν and 2Cor 5:18+19 καταλλαγῆς4)Using KJV for our LDS friends. The word atonement used in Rom 5:11 Thayer Definition: adjustment of a difference, reconciliation, restoration to favour. In the NT of the restoration of the favour of God to sinners that repent and put their trust in the expiatory death of Christ Strong Definition: exchange (figuratively adjustment), that is, restoration to (the divine) favor: - atonement, reconciliation (-ing).5)Rom 5:11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the “atonement”. We have now received the atonement καταλλαγὴν . Now, in contrast with future glory. The original translation of “atonement” for the Greek word was actually a beautiful description for the translators of the KJV. When we see the depth the English language use of their time, as Vincent Word Studies show in the example of Shakespeare of the day.6) Atonement, reconciliation, the noun being etymologically akin to the verb to reconcile. Atonement at the time of the KJV signified reconciliation, at-one-ment, the making two estranged parties at one. As so wrote Shakespeare: “He and Aufidius can no more atone than violenist contrarieties.” Coriolanus, iv., 6. Understanding the reference and richness of English of the KJV translators using the word atonement is quite wonderful and expressive. 7) Now we have seen what the word is, let's look at CONTEXT to find what? Well the question is WHERE/WHEN do we get this “reconciliation” or “at-one-ment”. We simply need to read the previous verses. As always, the bible is the best commentary on the bible. Rom 5:6-7 EMTV “For while we were still weak, in due time Christ DIED for the ungodly. For scarcely on behalf of a righteous man will anyone DIE; yet on behalf of the good, perhaps someone might even dare to DIE.“8) We are "justified NOW by His blood".. We Christians are RECONCILED Now by His blood.. This is a fact, and "much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life'... sorry about you dear LDS.. . Rom 5:8-11 EMTV “But God demonstrates His own love toward us, in that while we were still sinners, Christ DIED for us. Much more then, having been justified NOW by His blood, we shall be saved from wrath through Him. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the DEATH of His Son, much more, having been RECONCILED, we shall be saved by His life. And not only that, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom NOW we received the RECONCILIATION.” 9) Not much to guess about is there. It was paid with his blood with His death on the cross. As anyone that has actually studied the bible knows. The offering in the OT, which is a type, a shadow, a figure of Jesus on the cross had to be slain/DEAD to use his blood.We Christians are certainly ready to go into His presence, because of Who He is. What He has done, and we are told.. Not "after all you can do".. No no no.. NOW! LoveInJesus

[@ginamiller6754]

The older gentleman is trying to skirt the issue, but Dave keeps going after the truth.

[@yonelainnocentnombaba2660]

the old man is just under attack here

[@stuartsc01]

Hey Dave.....maybe you can settle this. In the 25 years you were a Mormon..... did women.... or even young girls stand in front of the congregation (which included men) and teach (give a lesson)??? Did a woman ever teach your Gospel Principles class (which included men) either in your Ward or another Ward??

[@Jbugsmomma01]

I guess what I don't understand is how Mormons seemingly put more faith in what Joseph Smith says than the words inspired by God himself and the red letters Jesus actually spoke. Am I mistaken? And why Joseph Smith? Of all the "prophets" that have came forth and made claims, why him? I know it is said the Bible was messed up thru countless translations but I don't think God would let that happen. But I feel like they blindly began following every word a human told them to without proof! Where are the tablets he had? Who all saw the angel give them to him? Why do they change their beliefs based on what's popular? For instance only recently could a black man be higher up in their church. Why? Did God not make them good enough until now? And why if their prophet says don't drink coffee or go to hell but it's not due to caffeine. They can drink 17 energy drinks a day and that's okay! I'm just really confused and any time I ask a mormon to explain they act like it's all a secret and won't explain anything! People can't learn if you refuse to explain and share.

[@OutoftheCocoon]

Mormons have been likened to Jehovah’s Witnesses because both come to your door. If you are considering studying with Jehovah's Witnesses, please watch "Should I Study with Jehovah's Witnesses: They Seem Like Really Nice People." Jehovah’s Witnesses stole my family from me, a family that has shunned me now for over 34 years. In this video, you’ll hear my mother hang up on me after denying that the Watchtower ever told her to shun me. Witness the truth: her shunning letter and the Watchtower magazine instructing her to shun. Please, don't let your family fall prey to this cult. There are over 7,000,000 JWs in the world. One may be knocking on the door of someone you love today. Click on this link: Should I Study with Jehovah's Witnesses: They Seem Like Very Nice People Should I Study with Jehovah's Witnesses: They Seem Like Very Nice People Knowledge is power! Sincerely, Brenda Lee, author of “Out of the Cocoon.”

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

As Jaime Merino below, and in other places shows you LDS do not understand scriptures, grab a verse here and there, he doesn't understand as you LDS don't, a believer's position in Christ. Sadly, the following doesn't apply to you, but is what the Bible say's about the believers position "in Christ". As you are not "in Christ", ,but dead in your sins.. But...And if you were able to be that person, if you repented of your error and understood, Jesus is God come in the flesh, The Word made flesh, who had always been with the Father, before all creation, and He was God, singular.. and simply turned to Him to forgive your sins, as we are shown, then this would apply.. But I think it is good for you to see, a believer’s position in Christ, i.e. what Jesus “HAS” done for the believer, is told to us over and over in the Bible. For fun, let’s use a seldom used passage to show this truth in context. So, the book of Ephesians is oft referred to as the book of “InNess” for all of the references we are given to those being “In Christ”. This is a theme throughout the book and context of the entire book. 10 times in this short book we have the words, “in Christ”. Interestingly this has been referenced also as a condensed “book of Romans”, which also contains these words, “in Christ” or “in Christ Jesus” 10 times. No one that reads the first chapter of the book of Ephesians can come to any other conclusion than I am forgiven “today”, I am His Son today. My current position, “in Christ” is forgiven. There is no other conclusion one can honestly come to at all by reading the context. Let’s follow the scriptures in context: Eph 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ: “who hath blessed” is the verb, ευλογησας and is in the aorist tense, and mood is participle. Now in Greek, verbs have tense and have the concept of past, present and future, but the most significant feature of tense in Greek is “kind of action”, ongoing, finished, or a simple occurrence. A secondary consideration of tense, and one that only applies in the indicative mood is, time of action , but even in the indicative, the focus is really speaking of the “aktionsart” of the verb, as Greek is more concerned with the type of action, which gives Greek verbs a wonderful perspective. So this is a punctiliar action presented from the speakers aspect. He, God has blessed us with all spiritual blessings, now, this is something we Christians have, it is portrayed, done in as one would take a “snapshot” of an event that happened. Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: The words “should be” are not to mean, sometime in the future, “we should be” if we “earn it”, no no, they are the word ειναι and it is a verb, And is a verb in the PRESENT tense! This is not something, someday I might be, after I have “earned it”, no no no, this is NOW! This is my position in Christ NOW! AND WHAT IS MY STATE NOW? “holy and without blame before him in love” ! He sees, we that have accepted His blood,, oh but we will get to that. He sees me “holy”, “without blame” ,, wow! These words are actually the single Greek word, αμωμους and is defined as 1. without blemish a. as a sacrifice without spot or blemish 2. morally: without blemish, faultless, unblameable WOW! THAT’S OUR POSITION “in Christ” RIGHT NOW. Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. And this is all do to the “good pleasure of his will”.. God is so good, and this is to the glory of his what? Let’s say it , “grace” and here is a great part,, again He tells us, This grace is described as that "wherein He hath made us accepted in the Beloved." "Which (grace) He freely bestowed upon us in the Beloved." The words "freely bestowed" are the translation of charitoō, "to pursue with grace, to compass with favor, to honor with blessings." This verb has the same stem as the noun Charis (grace). One could render the clause, "which (grace) He graced us with in the Beloved." The word "Beloved," referring to the Lord Jesus. ALSO TO FURTHER EMPHASIZE THIS CONCEPT, THE HOLY SPIRIT CHOSE TO HAVE the word charitoō be in the aorist tense, indicative mood, this is a punctiliar action and now involving time as a statement of fact. In Greek an affirmation is said to be in the indicative mood. The term “mood” comes from the Latin modus, meaning “measure” or “manner”. Mood refers to the manner in which the speaker relates the verbal idea to reality. The indicative mood indicates that the speaker affirms the factuality of the statement! We are “in the Beloved, Jesus”! NOW DRUM ROLL….. I LOVE THIS PART. No ambiguity, nothing to guess. A summation of the previous context, wonderfully stated. Eph 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace; Because we know, from the context context context, we that are beloved, holy and blameless before Him are “In whom” as He describes us that are "in Christ" Now the meat: Let's show clearly in context, and exegesis speak to you that are lost, that are not “in Christ” now as he does do a wonderful statement of his exegesis of the verse, very intense and very thorough: "The Beloved" is described as the One "in whom we have redemption." The verb is present in tense, and durative in action, thus, "in whom we are having redemption." The redemption is an abiding fact from the past, through the present, and into the future. The fact of redemption is always a present reality with the believing reader of this passage whether he reads it today or ten years from now. The definite article appears before "redemption." It has a two-fold significance, pointing to the particular redemption spoken of in the Bible with which both the writer and reader are acquainted, and speaking of ownership. It is "in whom we are having our redemption." The word "redemption" is apolutrōsis which Thayer defines as follows; the verb, "to redeem one by paying the price, to let one go free on receiving the price"; the noun, "a releasing effected by payment of ransom, deliverance, liberation procured by the payment of a ransom." The story of redemption can be told in three Greek words; agorazō, "to buy in the slave market" (1Co_6:20; 1Co_7:23; 1Co_7:30, 2Pe_2:1, Rev_5:9); the Lord Jesus bought us in the slave market of sin, the ransom price, His blood; we are his bondslaves; exagorazō, "to buy out of the slave market, to buy off, to buy for one’s self" (Gal_3:13; Gal_4:5); the redeemed are the possession of the Lord Jesus forever, and will never be put up for sale in any slave market again; lutroō "to liberate by payment of ransom" (Tit_2:14, 1Pe_1:18); The particular aspect of redemption spoken of here is redemption from the guilt and condemnation of sin, for the qualifying phrase, "the forgiveness of sins" is added. This redemption is said to be "through His blood." The preposition is dia, the preposition of intermediate agency. The out-poured blood of the Son of God at the Cross is the lutron, "the price for redeeming, the ransom," used of the act of buying slaves, of paying the ransom for a life or of captives. The blood of Christ paid for the sins of the human slaves of sin in the sense that it satisfied the just demands of God’s holy law which decreed that "the wages of sin is death"; and outpoured blood means death. This redemption is defined as "the forgiveness of sins." The word "forgiveness" is aphesis from aphiēmi, "to send from one’s self, to send away, to bid go away or depart." The noun aphesis, used in relation to "sins," means "a release, the letting them go as if they had not been committed, thus, forgiveness, a remission of their penalty" (Thayer). Trench says that the image underlying the verb is that of releasing a prisoner (Isa_61:1), or letting go, as of a debt (Deu_15:3). One is reminded of the one goat who was offered as a sin-offering on the Day of Atonement, and of the other goat upon which was placed the sins of the people (symbolically) and which was let go in the wilderness, never to be seen again by Israel, the latter goat typifying that aspect of redemption in which the sins of the human race were put away, never to be charged against the individual again. God’s forgiveness of sin refers therefore to His act of putting sin away on a judicial basis, to His remitting the guilt and penalty. It is for the sinner to avail himself of salvation by appropriating the Lord Jesus as his Saviour by faith in what He has done for him on the Cross. The particular word for "sins" here is paraptōma, from parapiptō, "to fall beside a person or thing, to slip aside"; the noun form paraptōma means, "a fall beside or near something; a lapse or deviation from truth and uprightness, a sin, a misdeed, a trespass." This forgiveness is "according to the riches of His grace." The words "according to" are the translation of kata, a. preposition which in its local meaning has the idea of "down." The word "down" speaks of domination. The word "domination" speaks of control. The degree of this forgiveness was controlled, dominated by the riches, (ploutos) wealth, abundance, plenitude of God’s grace. This forgiveness is therefore a complete, an unqualified, an unchanging one, since it is controlled by the plenitude of God’s grace, and that plenitude is infinite in proportion. Expositors comments: "The freeness of this divine favor in the form of grace, the unmerited nature of the divine goodness, is what Paul most frequently magnifies with praise and wonder. Here it is the mighty measure of the largesse, the grace in its quality of riches, that is introduced. This magnificent conception of the wealth of the grace that is bestowed on us by God and that which is in Christ for us, is a peculiarly Pauline idea." So many ways and times we are explicitly told our wealth “in Christ”. I don’t need anything but His blood, nor as He states, can I add to the price paid for my sins, His blood, that was the price paid for our sin. And I am standing before Him, holy, and blameless, “in the Beloved” That is a Christians position in Christ. LoveInJesus.

[@krametorgsite]

Here's a scripture to our LDS friends who claim they are both prophets and gods: 21 “Present your case,” says the Lord. “Set forth your arguments,” says Jacob’s King. 22 “Tell us, you idols, what is going to happen. Tell us what the former things were, so that we may consider them and know their final outcome. Or declare to us the things to come, 23 tell us what the future holds, so we may know that you are gods. Do something, whether good or bad, so that we will be dismayed and filled with fear. - Isa. 41:21-23 There you go, LDS. Now, present your case!

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

Grace after all we can do? Or, is it Grace and Grace upon Grace.. Let's see a simple story, in His Word to shed light on this concept. The story of the prodigal. What a wonderful story. That along with the story of the publican, my two favorite stories of the New Testament. So much we can see, of course being careful to see context as all scripture, unless we deceive ourselves must be seen in context and not to go beyond what is said, being careful to let scripture comment on scripture, rightly dividing the Word of truth. With that being said: Entering a ways into our story, we see, he, the son felt of course, no more worthy to be called a son, his guilt was evident to himself. But I love this part! First, he came to himself, realized how far, what state of sin he was in.. A simple picture of conviction. Luk 15:17a "And when he came to himself,: Then we see: “and he arose and came to his father”, he moved, convicted of his sin, he came to his self. Realizing sin was against His father, not feeling worthy, in hope he started towards Him. Perhaps rehearsing his guilt, what he would say when he saw Him.. And the next verse, melting my heart at this moment… “But when he was yet a great way off”,,, no he had done no good thing, simply a heart of repentance moving towards Him,, We see a wonderful picture of the Father's heart, “his father saw him”,, the Father, ever looking for His son,, watching,, a heart of patient love.. and then this.. oh my gosh I can hardly stand it as I write it,, thank you Lord,, “and had compassion, and ran,” God ran.. God ran to him.. sheesh,, Lord,, man this is getting hard to type.. God ran, “and fell on his neck, and kissed him.” No this is not a peck on the cheek, “kiss” is the Greek word , κατεφιλησεν to kiss much, kiss again and again, kiss tenderly. He would not let go of His son, and when the son, tried to tell the Father, of his sin, probably had been rehearsing this to himself as he was on his journey to Him… the Father,, oh boy,, this is whoa…. The Father said, “Bring forth the best robe”,, man,, this is The best robe (stolēn tēn prōtēn). Stolē is an old word for a fine stately garment that comes down to the feet (from stello, to prepare, equip), the kind worn by kings (Mar_16:5). Literally, “a robe the first.” But not the first that you find, but the first in rank and value, the finest in the house. This in contrast with his shabby clothes. As Christians we see, His robe of righteousness, placed on his son. His. He came home in rags, and his Father not only clothed him, but adorned him. He said to the servants, who all attended their master, upon notice that his son was come, Bring forth the best robe, and put it on him. The worst old clothes in the house might have served, and these had been good enough for him; but the Father calls not for a coat, but for a robe, the garment of princes and great men, the best robe - tēn stolēn tēn prōtēn. There is a double emphasis: “that robe, that principal robe, you know which I mean;” the first robe (so it may be read); the robe he wore before he ran his ramble. When those fallen into sin repent and with this heart, merely arise, start they think, the “long” journey ahead to be His, but they shall be received and dressed in their first robes. “Bring hither that robe, and put it on him; he will be ashamed to wear it, and think that it ill becomes him who comes home in such a dirty pickle, but put it on him, and do not merely offer it to him: And put a ring on his hand, a signet-ring, with the arms of the family, in token of his being owned as a branch of the family.” Rich people wore rings, and his Father hereby signified that though he had spent one portion, yet, upon his repentance, he intended him another. Lastly he came home barefoot, his feet perhaps sore with travel, and therefore, “Put shoes on his feet,.” Shoes (hupodēmata). Sandals, “bound under.” . Thus does the grace of God provide for true penitents. So, first, The righteousness of Christ is the robe, that principal robe, with which they are clothed; they put on the Lord Jesus Christ, are clothed with that Son. The robe of righteousness is the garment of salvation, Isa_61:10. A new nature is this best robe; true penitents are clothed with this, being sanctified throughout. Secondly, The earnest of the Spirit, by whom we are sealed to the day of redemption, is the ring on the hand. After you believed you were sealed. They that are sanctified are adorned and dignified, are put in power, as Joseph was by Pharaoh's giving him a ring: “Put a ring on his hand, to be before him a constant memorial of his father's kindness, that he may never forget it.” Thirdly, also Shoes (hupodēmata). Sandals, “bound under.” Both sandals and ring are marks of the freeman as slaves were barefooted. The prodigal is no longer a slave(to sin) and he has the preparation of the gospel of peace is as shoes for our feet (Eph_6:15), the son, returned, can now proclaim. No, the prodigal had to earn nothing as we see in looking into his story. It is a story of wonderful Grace and mercy, of a Father’s heart, willing to restore completely those that no matter how far they fall, who are overcome with a sin(s), when they look up, He is already waiting, watching, God ran.. Thank you Jesus. 1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1Jn 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. I stand, by His Grace, mercy covers all my sin, as I know I have a sinful old heart and He never expose more of it to me, than I can seek His face to forgive me and change me and His strength is enough for all my sin. 1Co_15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; LoveInJesus

[@opertinicy]

I know members of the LDS church who are super caring, nice individuals. But let's not forget that the LDS spent millions bullying gays over equal marriage in CA (prop 8).If you want to be honest with yourself, mormonism is nothing more than a successful racket that has continually been on the wrong side of history..joseph smith was a fantastic conman, his claims are so ridiculously dubious. I don't like to bash on people's beliefs, but when it leads to systematically bullying people, because your life manual (the Book of Mormon in this case) said so, then i take issue. Jesus would not encourage knocking on doors in the name of hate. (BTW, hate to break it, but Jesus never stepped foot in North America. That's something Joseph Smith fabricated)

[@KenadoCC]

A. When We read Acts, we see a many year go by when the Apostles established churches near and far. In the Acts we also see those who were false, but that didn't mean that all Christians lost their way. Certainly not. When we read what history tells about the persecution, which Jesus told was to be expected, we find the first persecution of Christians in history occurred during the reign of Nero, after he set Rome ablaze 64 AD and blamed the fire on Christians and Nazarenes. B. Here follows the 10 persecutions where the Christian's grew in numbers, as persecution strengthened the Christian faith, because Jesus had already foretold this to happen. 10 periods of persecution of Christians have these dates (AD) where they begin and end: 1 - 64-68 (Nero). 2 - 81-96 (Domitian). 3 - 98-117 (Trajan + Adrian) (when Ignatius was killed). 4 - 162-180. 5 - 193-211. 6 - 194-238. 7 - 249-251. 8 - 253-260. 9 - 270-275. 10 - 284-303 (Galerius convinced Diocletion to eliminate Christianity from the Roman Empire. It became the Great Persecution). The persecution of Christians seem to have ended 313 when Constantine made the Christians a part of the worldly system, the state-church, which many Christians didn't follow, so Constantine persecuted those who didn't obey what he had instituted. There never was a big apostasy. There has always been prophets of God, and Christians who are persecuted. Today, Islam is the biggest persecutor of Christianity. C. The flaw with Mormons presentation of Joseph Smith as a "true prophet" and whatever they tie in the Old Testament to him is nullified by the context of what they rip out to fit in to J Smith. For instance, the two staffs are about Israelite tribes to be joined, not about any future prophet. J Smith claimed this about himself, hoping no one reads the complete context. D. THE BIGGEST PROOF that Mormonism is totally contradictory to the original Christian theology and doctrine we find in the letters of the early "church fathers", such as Ignatius, Polycarp, who were pupils to Apostle John. If anyone had it correct about who Jesus is, how many Gods there are, what heaven is, and if we can become Gods, (which the other books of Mormonism dictates, not the Book of Mormon though) it certainly would be the early church fathers. Everything the early Bishops present about the faith is in direct contradiction to Mormonism. Mormonism stands out as a complete heresy with its teaching about a pre-existence and Jesus being a brother to Satan and God having a wife to produce spirit children and all Mormons can progress to Gods who have their own planets, etcetera. E. The claim that there were "precious" parts of the gospel that were lost is a big lie, because if there were any parts lost, we would absolutely, without a shadow of doubt, find them among the church fathers' many writings. In fact, if we collect all their citations from the New Testament, then we could construct the whole New Testament, except for some few verses that we find any of the 6000 manuscripts of Greek. Even better, if we turn to the Aramaic texts, we find what the Greek translators omitted by mistake, and we can by the Aramaic scriptures also solve the few mistakes made in the Greek manuscripts. So, the LDS stands and falls on these two false claims: 1. Precious parts of the gospel were lost. 2. The first lie has to do with the second claim that there were a big apostasy, which led to the first claim. But when we read the Church Fathers' writings, we find that Christian faith has not been changed, nor was it teaching anything different at the very beginning. The Christians of the true Church, not the state-church that was a mingle of believers and atheists, were persecuted even beyond 313, and later by Muslims at 650, as Muslims have persecuted Christians until this day. The state-church "Roman Catholic Church" even killed one of its own priests when he found out that they didn't teach exactly as Jesus had commanded, as they burnt him at the stake, his name was Jan Hus. The thing about prophets and apostles being lost is another big lie by Joseph Smith. He managed to make over 53 false prophecies and still have followers who believed him to be a prophet, whilst the Bible clearly depicts him as a false prophet by one false prophecy alone, Deuteronomy 18:20-22. Under the Old Testament the Jews would have stoned Joseph Smith to death, over 53 times, for each false prophecy. How on earth Joseph Smith played that out is another example on how shrewd he was. Not only did he manage to plagiarize 1611'th KJV into the Book of Mormon, along with the italic words and the KJV errors, such as misspelling Seraphim as "Seraphims", and also plagiarizing teachings from a book of Emanuel Swedenborg, and other books as well, while he got inspiration from the newspapers about the founds of Indian dwellings and a lot more. Even the names of cities, lakes etcetera from his neighbourhood did he plagiarize, as he changed the names slightly so that no one would be the wiser. Mormons do not accept evidence as proof of plagiarizing and fraud, because all they are concerned about is a feeling in their belly, or heart, a sensation that is their testimony that the faith they have is true, no matter what the evidence say. No matter what archaeology tell, no matter if the weapons and material didn't exist at the time frame described in the Book of Mormon. You see, it's all a matter of having faith in the feeling. Even if their “living LDS-prophet” wasn't born a prophet, nor is given a prophecy from God about the future, they still believe that he is a prophet. Joseph Smith didn't need to tell a true prophecy, the Mormons still believed in him as a prophet, because Smith always had a clever excuse or explanation to why his prophecies never came true. It's always easier to blame something or someone else when God cannot fulfill what he has promised. MORMON MAN to GOD DILEMMA According to J Smith, God was once a man, an imperfect being. And if that is true, then there never could have been a God who started this LDS's "eternal progression," because the God before this present God was also a man before he progressed into a God, all the way back to when it didn't start, since the first God wasn't a God at first, but a man, which makes the God-Father of the next God nonexistent, since his God-Father first must have been a man in order to become a God, which is the whole thing about this failure of doctrine about an eternal progression. It never began, because the flaw with it is that God was first a man, who was born by a God who also first was a man, and so one and on and on - as there is no beginning where there should have been a beginning. The Mormons have no logical explanation to this, because there is no logical explanation to something illogical. So they say that they do not know, yet, because that is not revealed. Well, that's convenient, isn't it? We have all our excuses for being illogical at times, don't we, but even Mormons have their excuse about an illogical doctrine, which is the whole foundation of Mormonism, because the purpose of being a Mormon is all about becoming a God with many wives/goddesses. Nothing bad about Mormons as humans, but, to me it seems, that to a Mormon, it's logical to be illogical, due to their emotional testimony. All of us have our own private theology, but no one will have the perfect, accurate theology about God, because God as the Creator is beyond our capacity to understand. Still, God has given us some direct understandings about himself, to us. None of the can be contradicted by any kind of future prophet or doctrine, that's the fact and reality. Why would God change when he has stated about himself as not changing in nature? He is always the same, from eternity to eternity. There will never be any other Gods, that has God already explained, but it's to hard to grasp for the sensitive emotional Mormon, so he rather cast out on God's word and rely upon his own feelings. Isaiah 43:10 "You are my witnesses," declares the LORD, "and my servant whom I have chosen, so that you may know and believe me and understand that I am he. Before me no god was formed, nor will there be one after me. God has officially declared Mormonism as false.

[@krametorgsite]

_Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin. But now APART FROM THE LAW the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify._ Rom. 3:20-21. So why don't the LDS prophets testify to this righteousness apart from the law and instead require that their people be justified by observing the law? Because their prophets are false prophets and the Church of Latter-day Doctrines is not the true church. Reject these blind guides.

[@waggingtongue]

Dave its obvious you made this, not with the intent to find truth but to prove your point. The LDS man simply does not know how to debate. First, any person who claims to be Christian and thinks that by simply "believing" will get him to heaven knows virtually nothing about the bible. Second you hamstring this guy because you say Heaven or Hell. Its not that clear cut so he can't answer. nor can your other debaters. God judges, doesn't matter what they think. Plenty of people are going to hell that think they're going to heaven. Ask your fellow Christians to explain John 14:2 in my fathers house there are many mansions, Corinthians 15:41.... James 2:14-26 Faith without works is dead. LDS church teaches we are all saved by grace, no matter how many works we do. But you show your faith by your works. If you don't actively do Gods will which would be works, then do you really have faith? It would tantamount to saying I believe eating healthy and God will make me thin. Noon you show your belief by practicing that belief and exercising your faith by actually doing what you profess. But likewise the LDS church also teaches that you can spend 24/7 doing all the works in the works, but when when you die and face God, it is solely and only by his grace that you enter. he is the gate keeper so to speak. A persons good faith and work with only sanctify and help that person grow closer to God and help him reach the celestial kingdom. Because an LDS person Heaven consists of (Celestial, Terrestrial and Celestial Kingdoms as the New Testament defines) And LDS people want the highest degree, celestial kingdom. Try grabbing one of your reborn friends and asking them to explain those different kingdoms and watch them scratch their heads as I did for 2 years in the bible belt in texas. you can't just cherry pick versus from the bible. You need to have it all mesh as on cohesive story. So far there is not even a single religion that runs a distant second to LDS theology when it comes to explaining the scriptures in totality. If you honestly, and I mean this, actually believe that individuals who profess to believe in Christ and are saved, but hang out doing drugs, getting drunk, fornicating etc etc are destined for heaven, then I've wasted my breath. Cuz I'm sure God didn't have scriptures and 6000 years of holy men killed and his Son crucified, simply so you could gaze at a few passages, clink your glass of wine and say, i believe. That's exactly what the father of lies, satan, would want you to believe. Believing is entering the gate, but thats just the beginning my friend. What does "Narrow" mean? 14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. I could go on but you get the point, to mention nothing about repentance, baptism etc, all of which is required to enter heaven. I'll pose one more question for you to ponder: After Christ's resurrection, three days later he appears before Mary and she in her excitement, love to see her Lord/Master she reaches for him and he replies: 17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God. So here's the question: If Christ has not yet ascended to his Father(which is where Heaven is by your definition and mine) where pray tell has he been for 3 days? I'll give ya a hint since most self proclaimed Christians don't read or practice what they preach, and hence don't know the answer that every LDS person does. The answer is in Peter.

[@briellebeck8888]

Deuteronomy 18: 20 But any prophet who falsely claims to speak in my name or who speaks in the name of another god must die." You can test Joseph Smith as a prophet by this verse. Many of his prophecies were wrong, so he is not a prophet from God. He said that Jesus will be born in Jerusalem, and he was born in Bethlehem. He said that the temple would be in Independence, Missouri, and it did not happen. In the book of Mormon, 1 Nephi says that important parts of the Bible were taken out, so we can't believe it. If you compare our modern Bibles with the ancient manuscripts, (by the way, the book of Mormon has none, and the Bible has thousands) they are EXACTLY the same. Below is the passage from 1 Nephi. 1 Nephi 13: 26 And after they go forth by the hand of the twelve apostles of the Lamb, from the Jews unto the Gentiles, thou seest the formation of that great and abominable church, which is most abominable above all other churches; for behold, they have taken away from the gospel of the Lamb many parts which are plain and most precious; and also many covenants of the Lord have they taken away.

[@krametorgsite]

People in all "Christian" faiths fall into 2 types of categories: Apologists and Defenders. Apologists can make a substantive defense of their beliefs and doctrines based on several aligning biblical scriptures. Meanwhile Defenders can't. They just defend the status quo because they don't like what someone is saying. They dig in. They attack the messenger personally because... "How dare you have an opinion (or we consider you not credible) on the way do 'true' church." Among Mormons, the vast majority majority (99.9%) of the followers that the church produces are defenders - those who cannot make a substantive defense of their doctrines based on a variety of biblical scriptures. Therefore, they usually erroneously attack the messenger thinking if I discredit the messenger, I discredit the message. Unfortunately, that just looks desperate and theologically weak. I can't help it if is nearly all Mormons fall into that latter category

[@krametorgsite]

The LDS often ask,, if Joseph Smith was not a prophet of God, how do you explain the existence of the BoM? This is easy: Luke 22:3-4, _"Then Satan entered Judas, called Iscariot one of the 12. And Judas went to the chief priests to discuss how he might betray Jesus"_ Some might of thought it was impossible for any of the disciples to betray Jesus. But we are actually capable to doing all kinds of things under the influence of demonic forces as much as we are under godly ones. And just as the slave girl of Acts 16 who followed Peter and Paul exhorting, "These are men of the most high God," was telling the truth, she was also under the influence of a demonic force, as Joseph Smith was, that *only they* could discern. The BoM is also partially exhorting truths about God just as the slave girl did, but only true spiritual Christians today know the source of that spirit, as was the case with Judas and the slave girl, who were not of God. Too much to believe? if you have open doors to the enemy, and Joseph Smith has a boatload of them that the LDS constantly explain away, you're capable to doing all kinds of signs, wonders and miracles, just as Jesus described in Matt. 7:22-23. Go to the source. Go directly to God and ask for wisdom and discernment about the source of this LDS spirit. After all, even the LDS instruct you to seek wisdom and to pray sincerely if something is true (James 1:5), so why not this? Beware of false prophets. Resist the enemy and lie and the dark spirit of the LDS, it is not of God.

[@krametorgsite]

John 1:1, 1:14 says Jesus is called God, became flesh and lived among us. This sets up everything that follows in the Book of John, where Jesus is called equal to God and one with God. John sets the context in the VERY FIRST VERSE and chapter of who Jesus is - God! Then all the rest that follows in his book helps us understand what he means to say about Jesus' nature and helps explain what Jesus' quotes meant. Like John 5:18 where John first wrote that the Jews wanted to kill him because he was making himself equal to God. Or John 8:58 where Jesus calls himself "I AM", a blasphemous statement under the law for which the Jews again tried to stone him. Then in John 10:30, he says he and the Father are one. And it's not "one in purpose" that he meant. First, he never said that "I and the Father are 'one in purpose.'" He said, "My Father and I are one." So let's get to some crucial questions about this: *1. What if the LDS are right?* Well, even the Jews were "one in purpose" with God, after all they were his people for 1000s of years. So if that was a capital offense, wouldn't it have to be true that they too would be guilty of the "One in purpose" law that they were condemning Jesus for? No, they understood exactly what he meant, that he and God were literally one! *2. If the LDS are right that Jesus not literally God himself, but rather 'a' god, why does John say Jesus is God in the first verse of his gospel and then write an entire account of his life quoting Jesus in a way that supports that same conclusion?* If you believe the LDS, John writes that Jesus is God which doesn't just suggest he is equal to God but separate, but God himself! Period! Do the LDS really expect us to believe that John starts his Gospel in this definitive way but *really* meant to lead people to the opposite conclusion - that Jesus is NOT equal or God himself and that he knew it? If so, he did a horrible job of it. No, these things are nonsense, rubbish and absurd, propagated by men who were jealous and envious of other churches, so much so, that they concocted the LDS faith which is false and ridiculous. Reject the strange notions of the LDS. They lead you astray from the true Jesus of the Bible. Seek him for he alone has the power to save you, without any help from that or any other church!

[@OneDayCloserToHim]

Another important question relating to where you are going to spend eternity is, "Why does Mormonism state Jesus was born of "mommy god"? How could it state, the Word as we know Him, eternally with the Father, could have been a created being? The Bible clearly says, He is the eternal God, without beginning and without end, WHO created all things.. That word is ALL in the Greek friends, there is no mistake. Before time began, The Word was with the Father, eternally face to face intimate relationship....

[@krametorgsite]

One mathematician calculated, what are the odds that one person would come and fulfill over 350 promises in the Old Testament? He determined that it would be 1 in 1 (with 180 zeros after it). Jesus fulfilled all those promises that God would come. He is Him! He is the One AND the Only God - Mormons are just like the Pharisees. God showed up and they didn't recognize him because they would rather create God in their own image.

[@LeaSaSuEntertainment]

Cant we all just get along? lol Debating the scriptures and religious differences isn't healthy nor is it Christlike. If Mormonism isn't for you, then you don't need to join our Church. It's your God given right to make that choice. This video is counterproductive for all people who believe in the Jesus whom teaches love and tolerance for one another. HE atoned for all of us, LDS, Christians, Muslims, Hindus, Buddists, that is every living soul who has lived, lives and will yet live on this Earth. God Bless all of us in our efforts to believe and to be obedient to His commandments. Serving and helping each other and making this world a better place in whatever religion we belong to should come first and not pulling down peoples' faiths when you have no real understanding or concept of what it's all about.

[@krametorgsite]

If you look at history, when God spoke to his people, he ALWAYS spoke to them in the language of their day. When he spoke to the Israelites, he used Hebrew. When he spoke to Jesus, he used Aramaic. When he spoke to the early church, he used Greek and Latin. But when God supposedly spoke to Joseph Smith, suddenly he spoke to them in a dialect of English that had not be used in 200 years? Silly Mormons, they can't even get their phony "prophetic" trickery straight.

[@krametorgsite]

No one has ever been punished into purity. No one has gone thru severe punishment and come through holy. It just doesn't work that way. They can only come to purity through grace. So the next time the LDS tell you about the law and how that is the way to more approval from God, you can point them to Gal. 2. It's easy to find. It begins with "You foolish Galatians (er Mormons)! Who bewitched you?"

[@kollab]

This wasn't a healthy debate. Craig was blindsided by a 3rd Christian in the mix lol. Dave you completely bullied the conversation. You were supposed to be a mediator between the 2 groups and stay neutral. However, early on you begin to speak on Jamey and Aaron's behalf. Later you even begin to quote scripture and allow for Jamey to ask questions to Craig. That was your job not his lol. You might want to think of renaming the title of this video