A horrifying reflection of your closest allies

[@WretchedAutomaton404]

the kanji for hozuki also translates to oni/demon lantern ( 鬼灯 ) and they fruits and cages were made into dolls known as 鬼灯人形 "hoozuki ningyou" Also my favorite bloodborne enemy

[@ZullietheWitch]

The tradition of making dolls out of the bulb of the hōzuki plant explains their connection to the Winter Lanterns even better. Thank you for bringing that up, it's a pretty significant piece of information.

[@fumomofumosarum5893]

it's such a stupidly powerful enemy, but still fun ^^

[@protonjones54]

I don't see any results about chinese lanterns made into dolls on google....

[@person906]

@@protonjones54 they're talking about the flower being made into dolls not the lanterns...

[@n0denz]

Cages and dolls you say? Very interesting...

[@nido16100]

One of the enemies I successfully stumbled around without great harm in my first playthrough, and one of my most hated in every followup. Ignorance truly is bliss.

[@BlinkReanimated]

Your eyes were yet to open.

[@untiziochestaingiroperperd1057]

Ironicaly,if you fight these enemys with high insight,you became more vulnerable to frenzy, so yeah, ignorance,like you said , is truly a bless

[@LS-fc7nx]

I know they are farmed for gems but I always just sprinted past hoping not to be grabbed fuck those things, but. A fully upgraded, fully charged R2 from the Kirk hammer takes em out nicely. Pancake time!

[@THExRISER]

I know how that feels, managed to go down all the way to the bottom bonfire in Blighttown without dying on my first DS1 playthrough, simply because I took my time since I heard _things_ about the place.

[@ieatmice751]

Same tbh, they were no trouble for me

[@ZullietheWitch]

I didn't spend almost any Insight during my first playthrough of Bloodborne, so I remember being especially afraid of the Lanterns. Probably the most anxiety-inducing aspect of Frenzy is how it will continue to build up for a couple seconds even after the source of the Frenzy has been killed.

[@itsmichaelakin5421]

Same Zullie. I had no clue insight was linked to frenzy build-up. One of the many mechanics in Soulsborne that isn't explained, only passed on from one unfortunate player to another.

[@somestuff9143]

@@itsmichaelakin5421 yeah, each additional Insight reduces the Frenzy resistance, the only way to notice this is to spend a lot of insight in the shop, then the frenzy resistance bar will show up on screen (i think)

[@Dastardly_Duo]

During my first playthrough, a friend told me to keep as much insight on me as possible. I hate the Winter Lanterns more than any other Fromsoft enemy ever because of my one friend

[@gothamdarkknight3729]

@@somestuff9143 oh, so that's why the frenzy bar and beast meter show up when you spend insight! Beast meter correlates inversely with insight as well. The the less insight you have, the easier it is to fill up the beast meter. That also explains why the beast meter bar pops up every time you ring the beckoning bell.

[@zed6740]

@Zullie the Witch You said the enter lanterns were a corruption of two of the characters allies but I only see 1 ally which is the doll. What is the other one?

[@Chimera-man-man]

Something that adds to the horror is that you can hear them before you see them. Which works on a game design level (since an enemy that can hurt without touching you should give the player a fair bit of warning) but after the player has been trained to recognise the singing and be wary of them it's actually terrifying when they reach an area they haven't been to before and hear their singing.

[@Yora21]

"~chuckles~ I'm in danger."

[@HannyaBoi]

Even more terrifying is that in order to hear them you NEED a certain amount of insight. So if you want to be prepared you need to weaken your frenzy resistance.

[@UNOwen-nn6ui]

@@HannyaBoi sweet!Did not know that.Thx

[@amberhernandez]

Learning that there's some in the Hunter's Nightmare made me hate that part of it even more tbh

[@mellamosteve331]

Bro just hearing the humming made me tense up

[@samfivedot]

Since you only ever see these enemies in the Nightmare levels, I think they're meant to be projections of the Hunter's own fear. It would explain why they resemble a distorted Doll and a pile of messenger corpses (pretty much your only friends in this game) and why the Hunter can't take looking at them for more than a few seconds. It works on a meta level too -- everybody hates Winter Lanterns as much as they fear them. If that's true, it makes me wonder if they only exist in your mind, or if they're just nightmare-dwelling entities capable of altering their form based on what's looking at them.

[@acallbeyond432]

Or the doll is evil and is making copies of herself and then infecting them with Kos parasites

[@Spirit_of_Yubel]

I wouldn't say "Own fear". Being that the idea is that *You* are the Hunter, *You* decide what those fears are. If anything, I consider the Doll as a "Caretaker" of sorts, a being created and given life in the dream proper. Perhaps even the first "Creature" of a Dream. Winter Lanterns are trying to copy the Doll, but due to interpretations, they don't get her "Right". The Lanterns serve their functions: Caretakers of the Dream. But because they're a gross recreation of the original, they don't see the Hunter as "Ally", more like a "Nightmare" of their own.

[@Lepoetism]

What about Gehrman? isn't he the hunter's friend and mentor?

[@Lepoetism]

What about Gehrman? isn't he the hunter's friend and mentor?

[@jamticles]

@@Lepoetism have you played the game?

[@gdhuertas07]

Zullie: The most hated enemy in Bloodborne is the Winter Lantern. Brainsucker: *cries in corner* I'm trying my best, OK?!

[@natk8541]

Brainsucker gets stunlocked to death by hunter's torch. Paper tiger.

[@JulianCastelle23]

The Well Sharks are just hiding, out of sight. Waiting for the foolish Hunter to forget about them as they suddenly rampage and oneshot them with their dive attacks.

[@gdhuertas07]

@@natk8541 Yeah, but the Arcane ones just need to get one good hit in and that’s it.

[@mrwizard5012]

Cursed chalice Amygdala: h e h.

[@lorenzo8208]

The two hell hounds are the real Villain of this game

[@avataraarow]

As annoying as frenzy is, these are actually some of my favorite enemies. They are just so unsettling and creepy, they perfectly match the vibe of a cosmic horror nightmare. I’ll take these over brainsuckers and chime maidens any day

[@MasonTheCourier]

I’ll actually take those two instead cus The brain suckers became easy once U use the blades of mercy. And the chime maidens just go offline

[@Yora21]

Yeah. Who's my best little nightmare abomination?!

[@pillarsofnosgoth]

@@MasonTheCourier perhaps you haven’t played the chalice dungeons where the chime maidens summon infinite enemies until you kill it. First you have to find it and then sometimes you’re blessed with two! And if you’re really unlucky they’re accompanied by a host of other regular enemies. They’re the most pain in the ass in the entire game.

[@MasonTheCourier]

@@pillarsofnosgoth see I purposely ignored the chalice dungeon maidens cus those things are abominations. I was mainly talking about the main game

[@rainbowkrampus]

Chalice chime maidens with infinite spider spam are the ultimate nightmare. But winter lanterns are a close second.

[@thehungrylittlenihilist]

There's a theme with Great Ones having miniature versions wandering around. The Brain and the Lanterns. Kos and the Slug women. Ebrietas and the little babies. The Emissary and the little emissariettes. Maybe these represent some attempt at creating children for the Great Ones.

[@spase667]

You can include also The One Reborn and the cramped coffins, and Rom and her spiderlings.

[@Rakshael]

The Player becoming a Great One in the end is because the Doll is now inhabited by a Great One itself and is helping/guiding the player to become its surrogate child, as most Great One's surrogate children die. The same Great One also manifests as the Bath Messengers. The Winter Lanterns reflect the Doll's appearance because it's the same Great One manifesting through various physical forms, and that's why they cause so much Frenzy- the player cannot handle the truth that it is literally being groomed by a Great One to go through the events of the game, eliminate the Paleblood Moon who intentionally kills off Great Ones' children, and be reborn as one themselves. The game states that Great Ones will oppose one another for reasons both understandable and beyond our comprehension. Paleblood Moon Presence has some sincere interest in killing other Great Ones off and seems to employ Hunters to that effect with great success, though almost all of them would have no idea they are used for such a purpose.

[@KazeFP]

the moon presence and werewolves?? i always noticed they had pleasingly similar designs

[@blazaybla22]

1. I love the term emissariettes 2. Of course the overall head is most reminiscent of the Brain as you said, but I love this in relation to the discussions about why it looks the way it does. Naturally people are speculating that it could be because the messengers and the doll are the players’ only allies and this inversion makes them more unsettling, which is valid although I think if this were the primary reason for their design, those details wouldn’t be so hidden and on the enemies that players are least likely to stop and look at. Of course, that’s just my opinion. If I had to guess, based on everything I know about the game’s lore as well as Miyazaki tropes, I would definitely have to posit that they were in some sense cobbled together by the Brain out of Dolls and Messengers from previous cycles of the Hunter’s Dream/Nightmare. (Djura and Eileen‘s dialogue I would say clearly confirms that they are pretty much universally experienced by Hunters during their cycles.) This also ties in with the pinned comment about the Japanese lantern flowers being made into dolls. In a broader sense, and I hate to sound pretentious but more in the context of “textual criticism” (basically identifying and dissecting patterns in art) I would say this has to do with the Miyazaki trope that “this has all been done before” and how what appears in the beginning to be an all-important quest is something that has actually been done over and over (e.g linking the fire) with deleterious effects and why the more remarkable endings in Fromsoft games tend to be the ones in which the player chooses to break the cycle rather than continue it by completing the quest as originally instructed. In this sense, if the Winter Lanterns were in fact cobbled together out of previous Hunters’ dolls and messengers, it would be very much in line with, say, the concept of the Soul of Cinder.

[@Matrim42]

@@Rakshael You keep saying this in comments but most of it is made up out of whole cloth.

[@loslobosazules]

Never ever was there an enemy in a game that made me panic more

[@thewheezychannel9473]

Same...These dam things do a great job of triggering a fight or flight reflex lol. The next closest thing I could think of was my first encounter with the "Skulls" in metal gear solid 5.

[@JM64]

@@thewheezychannel9473 Oh God, the skulls were fucking creepy the first time around. You see them and they shamble like zombies, then you get in range and they come at you like a bat out of hell 😨😰

[@thewheezychannel9473]

@@JM64 it's all fun and games until the zombies start pulling rifles out of their hands and out run your horse 0_0

[@melonpan5696]

One word: shark

[@JM64]

@Warrior Of Mankind That game doesn't get the love it deserves, but yes those bastards were creepy... they'd say all this horrible shit while sneaking past them "shove bamboo shoots under his fingernails" and stuff like that

[@brianquijada6574]

Farming these fiends for blood echoes was one of the best "high risk, high reward" feelings I've ever got in any videogame

[@rafaelbordoni516]

I remember they dropped really good bloodstones too, farming them felt especially great because we get to kill those motherfuckers, but if I felt too confident, boom, dead.

[@darkoale3299]

You farmed them? Good God man. The horror!!!

[@brianquijada6574]

@@darkoale3299 With high Insight and parrying their grab attack, you can i-frame the Frenzy with the riposte animation. Hit them when they start running at you and shoot right before they grab you. There, you killed it and survived Frenzy :D

[@Neiroe]

I never farmed them, but it was a good feeling when I panicked, and accidentally saved my life with a parry. A trick I now always pull out against them.

[@brianquijada6574]

@@htlchtlc sorry if I'm being slow and not getting the joke but as far as I remember you can't dodge Frenzy stabbing, you either break line of sight or use sedatives but no dodging can save you from it

[@HeyyaitsmeGoku]

And now they're in Elden Ring 💀 *Great*

[@Khann_2102]

💀💀💀

[@forloco6508]

they’re easy to beat tho just parry em

[@HeyyaitsmeGoku]

@@forloco6508 i knoww,i beat them all up on every playthrough after knowing that

[@Yusa25]

Use golden parry works like a charm

[@Krajj54]

I'd love a close look at the Executioner (big axe guy) enemies. Playing last night, I noticed they have a weird face detail on their armor over their stomach. The cape on their back is also stitched together in a way that the seams resemble the shape of the shawls of the Healing Church. There's a lot more to look into with them: their counterparts in the Hunter's Nightmare, their placements in the game (like watching over Iosefka's Clinic or Hemwick Crossing) and even IMO a visual similarity to the attendants in the Nightmare of Mensis.

[@qAnon118]

Yes please!

[@espelhogamer]

There's also a resemblance to the original Souls executioner, Smough. Specially if you look at the actual holes for his eyes at the base of his "neck"

[@kalameet3136]

@@espelhogamer to me they look more like fat official from DeS, or that one from the DS1 artbook, the one riding a boar.

[@seashorerumble1380]

What intrigues me is that they are maybe the only enemy in the game who can block, indicating their purpose is specifically to fight hunters and/or other humans

[@billybyrns2557]

Bump on this, yeah, I'm really interested in both of them; and what's more, I noticed that the Nightmare squid-executioners have masks which resemble those of the Yahar'Gul attires; given that you can find the executioners not too far from 2 robed dudes on the way to Yahar'Gul, I assume they likely are all connected in some fashion.

[@SasukeFromPart1]

It's nice to see these creatures more in depth than usual as I just run everytime I see them with no hesitations lol

[@exousian7217]

Thanks Sasuke (From Part 1), very Cool!

[@diogoepronto]

Hesitation is defeat, right?

[@monsieurdorgat6864]

Yeah, they're still very mysterious. The name doesn't really help much...

[@realkingofantarctica]

I bet From Software was real proud of themselves when they created an enemy worse than dogs. In fact, I never even noticed the similarities to The Doll or Messengers because I was too busy downing sedatives and spamming R2. On the topic of the name, I'm a big fan. To have a serene, alsmit graceful name such as 'Winter Lantern' be used to describe a radically repulsive and sinister being like this slightly makes up for all the times it has troubled me.

[@TheCrewExpendable]

Now they just need to figure out how to make a poisonous swamp that is standalone enemy that also causes that games instant death status (curse, frenzy, terror, etc.)

[@DeadKarr]

I like to think that because they are a corruption of both the doll and messengers they are the manifestation of the minds of hunters that lost their will and succumbed to the frenzy of the hunt. A tiny nightmare only strong enough to exist within the dreams of mensis

[@TheCrewExpendable]

They also exist within the Nightmare Frontier. Since you can see Mergos Loft (I.e. the nightmare of Mensis) from the Nightmare Frontier as well the ship masts from the Hunter’s Nightmare, the Frontier always seemed to me to be the “dream plane” that other Nightmares and dreams can take place in. Basically largely featureless crags and swamps sparsely populated by nightmares with the occasional spill over when nightmare creatures manage to wander out of their associated nightmare. Hence why you find the winter lanterns and some Loran silverbeasts in there.

[@DeadKarr]

@@TheCrewExpendable @TheCrewExpendable both the nightmare of mensis and the nightmare frontier always seemed to me to be an almost perfected version of a man made nightmare the fact we see Maria in the hunters nightmare but only after Maria in the fishing hamlet do I remember seeing any they seem to be directly caused by humans messing with old ones/nightmares

[@Rakshael]

The Player becoming a Great One in the end is because the Doll is now inhabited by a Great One itself and is helping/guiding the player to become its surrogate child, as most Great One's surrogate children die. The same Great One also manifests as the Bath Messengers. The Winter Lanterns reflect the Doll's appearance because it's the same Great One manifesting through various physical forms, and that's why they cause so much Frenzy- the player cannot handle the truth that it is literally being groomed by a Great One to go through the events of the game, eliminate the Paleblood Moon who intentionally kills off Great Ones' children, and be reborn as one themselves. The game states that Great Ones will oppose one another for reasons both understandable and beyond our comprehension. Paleblood Moon Presence has some sincere interest in killing other Great Ones off and seems to employ Hunters to that effect with great success, though almost all of them would have no idea they are used for such a purpose.

[@patchwurk6652]

@@Rakshael Jesus Christ dude, quit spamming this.

[@MasoTrumoi]

Speculation, of course, but I like to think the Winter Lanterns would look different depending on who is navigating the dream and seeing them. To us, they are a corruption of the messengers and the doll, but maybe to a regular Yharnamite (who wouldn't be in the nightmare but bear with me) they might look more like friends and family, or like a childhood pet mixed into the head, that sort of thing.

[@alexepic3255]

I thought the same

[@spacefaringyoshi]

I've always liked this interpretation as well, they're meant to intimidate the player by twisting what to us is familiar and safe. After all, they're only found in the nightmare areas.

[@Sharkamfss]

So you'd see your family or friend as a hideous monstrosity? That's fucking terrifying.

[@aetherspiralknight]

Thanks! I hate it

[@alexepic3255]

@@spacefaringyoshi exactly

[@LordKelvinX2086]

Before I learned how to parry-frame these things my solution was to strap on the Deep Sea 2 rune you get in Forbidden Woods. Then even if you get grabbed you'll usually have enough time to run away and Sedative before the Frenzy pops, meaning that all these things do is sight damage and negligible chew damage.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I usually just bait out the grab then dodge behind and visceral. Slapping on some frenzy resist clothes (ashen hunter set I think, the boring gray one) makes the buildup totally manageable. Heal on visceral rune is just icing on the cake. Can usually kill two before you even need to heal.

[@theedethproof8147]

@@rainbowkrampus ashen hunter is primary fire resist

[@theedethproof8147]

@@rainbowkrampus hence Ashen

[@commanderleo]

An even riskier but cooler method is to have low frenzy resistance (around 130), then parry the lantern during its grab and do a visceral. If your frenzy resistance is low enough, you'll reach the full bar during the visceral animation and you won't take any damage, because you're invincible during a visceral attack

[@kalameet3136]

@@theedethproof8147 frenzy as well. also, fire DEF, while frenzy RES. different stats.

[@jenova-demon7962]

I remember one of my favourite “Well Shit.” Moments ever was when I got to the Fishing Hamlet and went down the well where you get the Rakuyo, getting stuck on the ladder while hearing their singing in the background, having the one shark on the bottom walk around me and noticing the other shark staring at me on the ceiling while a bunch of enemies were splashing around above. I absolutely hate and love these enemies so much

[@luminarylambkin4620]

By the way, these enemies are good singers in my opinion lol.

[@warmaster1112]

Agreed

[@smoker5989]

Still better singers than Lil Pump

[@imperialquietus9977]

I always thought they were called Lanterns because of their orange glow and because they emit that frenzy-inducing effect once you're in their line of sight Just like a certain much-hated enemy from Dark Souls 3 also associated with lanterns

[@Izzmonster]

Who?

[@912silver]

@@Izzmonster The jailers of Irythil dungeon. Damn do I hate these guys.

[@CheesusChrisps]

There was never a BB playthough where I did not completely dread their encounter. One of the most unsettling enemies in any game.

[@FreekinEkin2]

It's worth mentioning that they only appear in nightmares, never in the basic physical world of Bloodborne.

[@smoker5989]

They are also in a part of the Fishing Hamlet but it makes sense since it it's in the Hunters Nightmare

[@inquisitionagent9052]

The Nightmare of Mensis also has a lot of them guarding a bridge

[@alexmr8536]

On my first playtrough I had the ludwig's holy blade, that staggered the lanterns with every hit so I never saw the grab attack. Then when I replayed the game with dex weapons I understood why people hate these

[@htlchtlc]

yeah, dex weapons suck

[@pillarsofnosgoth]

Dex has nothing to do with it. I used dex weapons in my recent playthroughs and as long as you’re carrying a weapon that thrusts, then that thrust attack interrupts their moves/grab attack. Plus, with high dex, clawmark runes, and a good knowledge of parry windows, you can visceral the crap out of most enemies and deal a staggering amount of damage.

[@CorrosiveFox]

You can "parry" the grab

[@ForeverOdd]

Do you think their appearance is meant to be relative? Tailoring it's appearance to be most horrifying to the viewer? The player finds comfort in the Doll and the Messengers, but would a different NPC see something more resembling their mother or spouse?

[@Rakshael]

The Player becoming a Great One in the end is because the Doll is now inhabited by a Great One itself and is helping/guiding the player to become its surrogate child, as most Great One's surrogate children die. The same Great One also manifests as the Bath Messengers. The Winter Lanterns reflect the Doll's appearance because it's the same Great One manifesting through various physical forms, and that's why they cause so much Frenzy- the player cannot handle the truth that it is literally being groomed by a Great One to go through the events of the game, eliminate the Paleblood Moon who intentionally kills off Great Ones' children, and be reborn as one themselves. The game states that Great Ones will oppose one another for reasons both understandable and beyond our comprehension. Paleblood Moon Presence has some sincere interest in killing other Great Ones off and seems to employ Hunters to that effect with great success, though almost all of them would have no idea they are used for such a purpose.

[@ryangoslingdrive]

@@Rakshael and where exactly is that stated? Like when did someone remotely say that she was "inhabited" by a great one, an unknown great one that no one knows of and just suddenly appears out of nowhere just as the hunter transforms inhabits the doll for unknown reasons cause since it's a dream it could very well be in its normal form Your theory is quite nice but it's way too far fetched to be the answer

[@brunocampos7199]

That doesn't even slightly fit the lore of the game. Stop spamming it, please.

[@dermihandro]

Imagine Gascoigne seeing his family in the winter lanterns ... no wonder that most hunters lose their sanity sooner or later

[@AnjnShan]

@@Rakshael Actually, the lore implies just this. - Every hunt, it would appear that Moon Presence, or 'Flora' would employ hunters for population control and evolution. - Yes, it is specifically stated that great ones tend to lose their children, which is most likely in due part to Moon Presence, and their efforts to make the HUNT a regular occurrence. Those previous points would indicate the correctness in gods fighting among one another, which is why their children are killed off, in some vague attempt to have a pro-dominant, alpha deity. But that isn't true, either. Moon Presence might've potentially enacted the hunt in order to prevent themselves from waning, depleting in power, to the point where they might lose divinity, becoming mortal because of the lack of spiritual energy being recycled back to them. This would go hand-in-hand with the lore, stating that gods lose their children. If the god dies, their entire line will go with them, moreover-- a weak god cannot procreate viably, due to the fact that they cannot protect their offspring. We know that the Orphan of Kos was the offspring of perhaps one of the more benevolent and kind of the great ones, and, if we respect the idea that Moon Presence orchestrated the hunt in most of its existence and history-- Flora is responsible for the hunters, Ludwig, Gehrman and some others, going after that goddess. The entire DLC all but screams "Gehrman is the father!" to your face, when you look at the events that are narrated through the environmental story. First, you arrive in Yharnam, a city that has clearly seen better days. Beasts everywhere-- Blood-drunk hunters, at odds with themselves, possibly at war with the FIRST hunt in the entire lore. This might've been the canonical beginning, but, the DLC is 100% a dream, a recollection of a past, not the happenings of a present. The implication is that, somewhere, somehow, beasts came about, which drove the men insane, and the men would slaughter the beasts, which would render the beasts pretty much subdued and scared. This might've been near the END of a hunt, where the 'Heroes' won. The beasts had lost, and the fearful hairy monsters would be brought to extinction. This might've even been AFTER the first hunt, at a point where hunters had more experience-- hell-- and better gear. It goes without saying, the lore doesn't even TOUCH the doll to any degrees that matter, beyond, maybe a single reference. So, she isn't likely to be the inhabitant of a great one... necessarily. The second DLC Scenario happens at the church's unethical grounds. A place where people, willing or unwilling, were locked up and experimented on. The purpose of this area was to replicate a god. Literally, the point of human experimentation was like their attempt at building Captain America. They wanted to create BETTER hunters, or-- they just wanted to create an idol of worship. Regardless of your opinion on that fact, you meet Amelia, or a vision of her, before she saw the unethical practices of the church, then decided that her actions that supported the church were too unbearable. She got rid of her weapon and ended her life. Now, you fight her corpse, which inevitably begins an Act-3. Before you even see Amelia, note: The prior boss is called "Living Failures," on account of the church experiments, creating something powerful. They're failures because they did NOT successfully turn into the idol they hoped. If we play the main game; it's clear they held a god of sorts, beneath their own structure. Below the ground, out of sight, Ebrietas would be held. A theory, but only just, claims that Ebrietas is the daughter of Kos. The true offspring. Another theory, but still only that, claims that Ebrietas was a successful experiment, which would make the most sense, given the Living Failures are what the church did wrong-- why would they STOP at the failures, and not manage to create ONE successful god? They even collaberated with this god, slowly perpetuating Bloodborn's main plot. Ebrietas was a part in the 'present day' hunt even occurring. The third Act sees the player follow in the shadows, the implied location, of a large hunt, which is probably where a LOT of the canonical events happened, prior to your arrival, some long moments later. This third act didn't just happen during a hunt, it was the closing moments, the hours that closed the hunt, as the sun rises. If we believe Ebrietas is a successful god that the church created, it immediately contradicts the need for this theory, the theory implying that the Church tried a different method, other than LIVING FAILURES GLITCH, to create a powerful deity. The theory which insists that Gehrman necro-banged Lady Kos, which is how the orphan was born. But, if we assume Ebrietas was simply captured, not created, we can ground ourselves into the implied reality of the final boss of the DLC. Doll still irrelevant. Gehrman's cry is modified to be shoehorned into Orphan's opening cutscene. It could've been any scream, more blood-chilling, or freaky... but, we got that. There's no bloodborne characters with a less original voiceline than Orphan has. None. Take it with a grain of salt, I still don't see how the doll ties into anything here. Gehrman narrates the boss' ending. "Some... something... Sea... Some thing," which might've been an uncanny line, used to imply that Gehrman killed the bastard, personally. Orphan was probably crying for his father, who killed the creature because its inception was unethical and immoral, both. This, if not the experiments, locking people up and perhaps introducing a new series of mental disorders, did not push Maria to KILL HERSELF, then the impregnating a goddess, brink-of-death or literally true-dead, obviously did. Doll was modeled after Maria, before or after her death, which, if we want to grasp for ANY reason for the doll to be ANIMATE, we can say that Maria possessed the doll. Soul, not memories... body, not mind. Love of Gehrman, but no romance. She's a doll, dude. Laurence's role in the DLC plot? Doll has ZERO importance whatsoever. He got cocky, thought that "BLOOD THAT HEALS PEOPLE? GIVE EM' A POP! DO IT! DO IT, FEED PEOPLE THE BLOOD!" Before he was literally called a fucking "Vicar" and then eventually mutated into a giant beast-man. He died.

[@LautrecOfCarim]

They make me miss the days when the sunlight maggot was still considered the worst lantern-themed enemy. Heh.

[@valentin4761]

ds3's jailers would like to know your location

[@t1glistenerelf]

I always enjoy seeing you around, beloved knight of Carim.

[@rysspace2511]

This is the fith time I saw you this year!

[@gdhuertas07]

Theory: The Winter Lanterns are the School of Mensis' "rough drafts" of their attempts to replicate the Doll.

[@aclkeba]

That's a really good idea. What interest do they have in replicating the doll though? I thought the doll was just Gehrman's random creation

[@jadegreenleaf781]

@@aclkeba maybe they learned the doll is alive in the dream, so thinks its a path to accending?

[@AchillesFeel]

@@aclkeba for secks

[@gdhuertas07]

@@aclkeba There are implications that other hunters used the Doll to strengthen themselves during Hunts. The School of Mensis wanted to harness that power for themselves, but their attempts at replicating the Doll have proven unsuccessful.

[@dankwarmouse6248]

@@AchillesFeel all those mouths 😩

[@RamAurelius]

The hollow look of the Hozuki plant may be what they were going for with the Winter Lantern. A hollow and corrupted figment of the players memories, which may be indicative of the player giving into their "beasthood" and falling under the Great Ones' influence.

[@lorenzo8208]

If their whole existence and sight causes frenzy, they could just be horrible memories from the hunter. Or only the "brain" exists and we imagine the doll.

[@ladyabaxa]

I just figured they're literal nightmare creatures, appearing in nightmare segments of the dream, and as such they draw on and distort things familiar to any hunter who crosses their path because that's how some nightmares work. Sure the doll and the messengers are only ever helpful to the player but their origins and motives are so shrouded in mystery that continuing to be suspicious of them is a reasonable response. Draw upon and amplify those negative feelings and you get a nightmare beast that assaults the mind just as readily as the body.

[@exbelion3543]

They are beautiful...in their own creepy way. Their song, and all the mistery that surrounds them: why are they wearing the doll's clothes, their heads made from dead messengers, etc

[@fumomofumosarum5893]

They might not be wearing anything - I theorise, as they fuck with players heads so much they can cause frenzy, they might just put on the illusion of something that should confuse the player, thus, their lower body is clumsily imitating the doll - maybe even specifically to lure the player to them ( alluring song ) so they devour him/her as their prey. Maybe everyone who sees, them would see them as someone else they know.

[@CEFG100]

The whole point of killing Rom is that the illusion is broken, which reveals what the world is really like, “the truth,” so to speak. At the same time, you go to Yhar’gul, and some of the lycanthropes there are weird corpse monsters instead. I’ve always thought that maybe they’re not actually corpse monsters, rather, they’re just lycanthropes that look different to you, a weird vision given to you as part of “the truth,” because all of the beasts of Yharnam are actually people transformed by blood ministration. I know this doesn’t have much to do with the Winter Lantern, it just reminded me of this.

[@vergence2229]

These things singing made me think long and hard about if I was going insane.”

[@Sorvanti225]

Theory: The hunter we play as is constantly fighting nightmarish being both in and out of the nightmare, however, they are usually prepared for such enemies, and they are not terrified by them in the slightest. In the case of the winter lanterns however, the frenzy buildup only resembles that of the brain of mensis, a being that might scare our player from the distance, however, seeing it in a weakened state, the hunters fears are diminished leaving the god like being defenseless against the hunter. With that in mind, the winter lanters could be the hunters deepest fears manifested into one horrifyingly powerful being that the hunter cannot mentally cope with, hence the frenzy. The hunter fears that the only true friends they have will be consumed by the nightmares they face, and that they will have to face them. This fear creates these creatures exclusively in the nightmare, which means that the frenzy is simply our character going mad with the thoughts of all they hold dear being turned against them in the most horrendous way possible.

[@vleos9325]

My hatred is for the Chalice Dungeon crackhead that comes at you at full speed screaming

[@AchillesFeel]

So true! I want to see a video on that shitter

[@chrisjanzen7748]

The Labyrinth Sages are the most terrifying enemies I've ever encountered in a video game. They're scarier than anything I've seen in horror games. The twitchy, unrealistically fast movement and their overall design, paired with their gut-wrenching screams is pure nightmare fuel. Also them being called "Labyrinth Sage" and knowing how knowledge works in Bloodborne, has me thinking they lost their mind and became that way, because they tried to comprehend what's happening in Bloodborne's universe. But trying to comprehend something incomprehensible just lead them to become mad. The Sage's Wrist and Sage's Hair they drop, states that they were sacrificed by the healing church in their search for truth. I don't know if that implies they once worked for the church or what, because their clothes look ancient, as if they've always been in the Dungeons.

[@KabutopsDeRaruto]

They are a pain, but are somehow manageable (except the corpse carrying one). The Hellhounds on the other hand come in pairs and WILL stunlock the shit out of you

[@vleos9325]

@@chrisjanzen7748 damn, i really wanted that the Chalice Dungeons were more than a place you just go for gems, theres so much potencial in there

[@vuuhl8605]

Very very excited to see you talk about the ones in Elden Ring and whatever the implications of that might be

[@Spygon]

On my first play through i manged to sneak around nearly all of them got caught by the last one but sliced it down quick enough it didnt kill me. But hiding behind a rock while they wailed as they passed was a terrifying experience.

[@insertgoodchannelnamehere]

The Groveside Cave ambience honestly goes really well with the Winter Lanterns singing.

[@TheDoubleA86]

Creepiest Soulsborne enemy for me... The way they sing that tune, slowly walking closer to us, man! I've completed Bloodborne at least four times yet i killed (probably) just two winter lanters so far; as soon as i see 'em, run like hell!

[@aperson9847]

the first time i played this game, i heard the singing before i knew where it was coming from and i was scared out of my mind. i think i gained an IRL frenzy meter in that moment 😂

[@eetfuk3571]

to me, they're the equivalent of Royal Revenants in Elden Ring. though there's a counter for those dreadful creatures, I am still shitting myself whenever I see one same thing applies to these twerps.

[@MEUAR]

1:32 This reminds me of the lattice pattern enclosing the amygdalae's heads, which are pretty similar to the Brain of Mensis (when you cut out the eyes), which itself looks kinda similar to the Winter Lanterns. Another thing it ressembles would be the Mensis cage, again linked to the Brain and Amygdalae. It's all tenuous at best, yet I can't help but feel there is some kind of link. A thing of note is that the Brain of Mensis and Amygdalae seemingly use a very similar texture file.

[@lordofstrandhill]

As always, just such a nice Video, I'm soo in love with your content, like one would assume at some point you just showed every little hidden detail in SoulsBorne games, but no, you're always coming up with something new awesomely interesting in a perfect way of presentation, it's just amazing. ❤

[@clownsanity]

I always believed this monster to be a manifestation of the hunter's own worst nightmare : seing his allies (messagers and the doll) molden into one abomination, the sight alone is enough to drave you insane and this nightmarish creature feeds on your fears.

[@romanrover5839]

All my homies hate winter lanterns

[@lupin2589]

Glad to see some exposure for the similarity between the Lanterns and the Brain of Mensis! I feel like this is an often overlooked part of the lore, I mean even the realization that the Lanterns resemble the doll rook years to discover! I find the humming of the Lanterns to be particularly interesting, as it being only triggered by having enough insight makes me think it might be important to unravelling exactly what is going on with them. However their hums don't seem to match to any theme in the game (not even the altered hunter's dream tune), so maybe it was just a stylistic choice. What I find terrifying is that nothing in the game makes *any* reference to the Lanterns, which leaves them as this extremely strange, horrifying entity that is looming behind the shadows of the Hunter's night.

[@lordmoldybutt6361]

The only yt videos I'll pause and rewind to digest it completely. Always so professional 👏👌 great work.

[@luminarylambkin4620]

Yeah I hate them with a passion. So recently, after a year or two I decided to do a random BB run again. And, I died to these annoying things 5-6 times in a row in Nightmare Frontier. Basically one shot.

[@akiraigarashi2874]

Do you ever run out of the estus equivalent in BB? I haven't played it but I heard that you get it from killing enemies and apparently they drop less the more you go through the same area. Is there a merchant you can get it from too?

[@luminarylambkin4620]

@@akiraigarashi2874 don't worry about it. You might get close to running out but trust me you won't. And, yes there's a merchant from the start with the heals (blood vials). But, the price doubles as you progress through the game. Good luck on your journey through Yharnam, Hunter.

[@hollandscottthomas]

@@akiraigarashi2874 Blood vials are expendable items, so it IS possible to run out of them, but you can just go back to an earlier area and kill enemies there cos they drop with decent regularity regardless of how many times you do it.

[@Tripod9648]

Bloodbrone is a horror movie that forces players to fight the monsters. Players can run, but it won’t take them far. no you foolish hunter. In order to escape this dreaded nightmare, you must fight your way out of it.

[@smokinggnu6584]

Oh, so that's why those things in SotET are called Winter Lanterns.

[@robbieliddle2462]

What an amazingly designed enemy! I didn't even realise there were so many aspects of different entities in this, and here I thought it was just a fleshy guy stuck on top of the doll model, I didn't realise that the limbs were "oops all tendrils" an the head was "oops all messengers" and then it goes and has similarities to the brain of mensis?! Impressive as hell and incredibly well thought out, and a great video explaining it all!

[@mikelawrence1876]

You're channel is really entertaining. I thought I knew souls games inside and out but you continue to surprise. Thank you. This is good stuff.👍👍

[@BigBinky_Gaming]

So anyone notice the fruits mentioned in the video look oddly like Amygdala heads. It's the whole lattice thing.

[@diz9606]

0:47 I like to think the Winter Lanterns only exist for the Good Hunter and no one else. Like even if, say, Alfred somehow found himself in one of the nightmares, the Winter Lanterns wouldn't exist to him because he's not the Hunter aka us and therefore doesn't know about the Doll or the Messengers. A lot of element of Bloodborne are purely metaphorical but the nature of the dreams being composed of a human host to shape the dream based on his memories and a Great One serving as a catalyst to shape those memories can give a physical shape to metaphors and emotions. I like to think that the nature of a dream/ nightmare make the fear and doubts of the Hunter manifest under the form of two of his closest allies. He is so afraid that he think his two closest allies might turn against him and as such, he is the only character capable of seeing them.

[@brezilianpope]

Your videos keep popping up in my feed and everytime I watch them I enjoy. You've earned my sub

[@revan7383]

I forget how horrifying this game is when you think about it

[@theman6422]

It’s an angler fish on high amounts of great one’s knowledge.

[@andregregory1663]

They are actually my favorites enemies of the game. By the time I reached the Nightmare I already had more than 70 insights. I love their design but They just make me so scared and desperate to kill them as fast as possible that I never could take a good look at them while playing.

[@rafaelbordoni516]

I think what I hate the most about them is because you can't dodge their attack. Every enemy in the game, including most enemies from other From titles, are all about dodging, spacing, bait and punish, etc but these things are almost a stage hazard, like the unavoidable poison swamps. The DS3 jailers are the closest we got to this design idea, but they're much more forgiving and also hated.

[@skhighglitch4217]

Also, unlike the Winters Lanterns, the Aristocratic Jailers carry lanterns.

[@MysticKoolAidMan]

I've heard someone say that these games are built around the idea that if you get hit, it's your fault. Now I understand why this type of enemy is so frustrating - context.

[@cthulhluftagn3812]

Considering their location, plant like features and apperence I'd say these things are prototypes for the brain of mensis. The school eventually managed to pull it through but in doing so left these half formed echoes behind, the doll form is them trying to lure you close enough to feed, and it seems to have worked on the messengers..

[@HelderCH]

Your content is amazing, carefully done and straight-to-the-point videos, so brief that they leave me (us?) wanting more. Thank you.

[@conspiracypanda1200]

I like this parallel between the Hunter's Dream and the Hunter's Nightmare. In one place, you have the messengers and the doll being your ever helpful companions; in the other, they're the most unsettling enemies, mashing the familiar into a form that you can't quite recognise at first glance. Do the other Hunters know the Doll and the Messengers, thus creating these warped, chimeric versions of the two within their shared nightmare? Or do the Lanterns take on this appearance specifically to unsettle our own hunter? Are they even doing it on purpose?

[@Legacy0901]

I really like the theory that the lanterns are manifestations of your hunter's inner fears because the optimal strategy to defeat them is to bait out the grab attack and parry. The grab attack has an enormous parry window, and Frenzy will pop during your invincible follow up and you are given plenty of time to set up the next parry before the Frenzy bar is at risk of topping off again. Thematically, this reinforces the idea that the best way to deal with your inner fears is to directly confront them instead of running away or using cowardly tactics.

[@StygTac]

While it's not 100% clear how the nightmare came to be, there are a good few things within it that I find interesting. For one, the nightmare frontier shows signs of connection to the nightmare of mensis, and connections to the fishing hamlet/hunter's nightmare, implying that they all exist within the same realm! We do know that the hunter's nightmare is the result of a curse on the hunters so this leads to a few questions (for me at least), such as, is the nightmare a pre-existing realm that can constantly expand? Great ones seem to reside over certain parts of the nightmares, are they the manifested by the great ones, or is the nightmare realm manifested by the consciousness of the (or a) host? When the hosts to the nightmares die, it doesn't stop the nightmare from existing, nor does killing the physical manifestation of the great one that resides there, does the nightmare realm itself have its own form of a consciousness, and if so, does it materialize the fears of a (presumed) host? Moving on a bit, the nightmare frontier seems to be connected to Lorain, as shown by the presence of the silver beasts and the amygdala dropping the ailing Lorain chalice, the nightmare of Memphis seems to be connected to the unseen village (at least to me), evidenced by architecture, elevators, and micolash's presence, and the Hunter's nightmare seems to be connected to yharnam as shown through the cathedral ward. We don't know of a potential host for the nightmare frontier, but we know Micolash is the host of The nightmare of Mensis (or so says his title), could Gehrman potentially be the host of the Hunter's nightmare? Of course that's all assuming that the nightmares are based off of hosts, rather than the fears of the individuals that reside within, which on its own has some very interesting implications! Now there are various things that imply towards and against this thought that the nightmares manifest the fears of the hosts versus the residents, so perhaps it may even be a combination of both, as there are NPC incarnations of hunters in every single nightmare, however Micolash would know nothing about the doll nor the messengers, and would (inherently) have not to fear from them and that implies they should be absent from the nightmare of mensis, unless the basis for determining it's manifestation of fears is based on any and all residents of the nightmares at any given point, adding some credence to the theory that the nightmare is a constantly expanding realm! Again, there are many things about the nightmare that we have no idea about so this is mostly just speculation, but it has some very interesting implications to the whole basis of the game, as with Fromsoft lore, sometimes less is more. Wow, long comment huh? Thanks for reading to the end

[@ShowerOnceYearly]

I never noticed they were wearing clothes let alone the Doll's dress. Because most of the time I'm trying to run away from them as I shout profanities

[@carlkligerman1981]

Brilliant! Shows how much thought is put into every part of a Fromsoft title. If only we had more games studios so dedicated to the art of making beautiful, challenging masterpieces.

[@Seekeroftruth806]

man i remember this shit I had high insight so I hear a creepy singing my surprise was so much that I legit had to take a break after that

[@khaled3433]

Zullie : the most hated enemy in BB Shark man and Shark man with anchor : *OBJECTION !*

[@GrayAndGrey]

That damn "singing"... Not only are you more susceptible to Frenzy the higher your insight is; Frenzy damaging you to the equivalent of 85% of your health that can actually kill you if you aren't at full HP; _this thing's gaze damages you after three seconds of exposure, making it easier for the Frenzy to kill you, if you are not close enough to get grabbed._ An on top of that, the window to riposte this thing during it's grab attack is very wonky. Screw this thing.

[@masterzoroark6664]

My take why winter lanterns resemble plain doll is that Brain of Mensis is more or less looking through your brain, looking for the things that will unsettle you ( I mean the Hunter) or make you give up and leave

[@austynodwyer8210]

Zullie, I don’t know if you’ll see this, but I wanted to give you a compliment you might have gotten before. I admire the use of impeccable grammar in your videos! So many creators don’t seem to care about grammar- seeing your perfect use of commas, non essential clauses, etc. makes watching your videos even better! As an English teacher, thank you for upholding your high standards for the English language.

[@justrandomstuff6828]

That didn't help to uncover this mystery, and i think that's great! Really fits the Lovecraftian aspects of Bloodborne, something you try to describe, but it's almost impossible

[@fergusattlee]

Yas been waiting for this video for ages, love their design so much! Thank you

[@michaelmannix1604]

Something I always thought was odd is that the trim of the dress, though certainly similar to the Doll's, also bears details more closely related to the Noble Dress worn by Arianna and the Silver Ladies of Cainhurst. Notice especially the length of the skirt and the lighter midsection running its full length, as well as the looser garments hanging limply from the elbows. It makes me wonder if they aren't mere conjurations of the Hunter's fears, but perhaps even a sort of byproduct of the secret experiments with forbidden blood at Cainhurst, carried out by an unknown Byrgenwerth traitor (Micolash...?). Both the Vilebloods and the Mensis scholars are seen as heretics by the Healing Church as it is. Even still, the Doll is herself a reincarnation of a Cainhurst noble, so the confusion of many story details seems fitting for such a confounding enemy that kills you by inflicting pure madness, lol.

[@ericsbuds]

ill never cease being amazed at the amount of detail that goes into these games. thanks for showing them off.

[@kingdomrains]

I never got close enough or let these things hang around long enough to notice any of those details, thanks Zullie, I can't un-see this now.

[@theawickward2255]

Hide, hide. Don't let her see. The lady of the lanterns is coming for me. Cover your ears and gouge out your eyes. The lady's song makes you food for the flies.

[@TheSilly6403]

Holy shit that's good, did you come up with that?

[@theawickward2255]

@@TheSilly6403 Sadly, no. It's from one of the comics.

[@TheSilly6403]

@@theawickward2255 still gave me chills lol, i love poetry like that

[@pillarsofnosgoth]

I actually never noticed their tendril feet! That’s pretty cool! I really like their design, but they’re not as terrifying as most make them out to be in game. Thrust 😉 attacks interrupt their grab attack. Go in with full health, thrust to death 💀, take the frenzy damage and heal. Rinse and repeat. Winter lanterns are easy. Now the two well sharks are more of a pain to me but the chime maidens in the chalice dungeons are the worst!

[@blarg2429]

So the thing that looks like everyone's waifu is vulnerable to thrust attacks? Nice.

[@cocomunches2796]

Thank u zulie, literally clearing up so many of my questions bro

[@pyxelist8007]

Nah, Insight suckers are the worst. Winters Lantern 2nd. 3rd are the Rakuyo Whales.

[@AS-bc8fg]

Easiest way of killing them for me was to charge a heavy R2 with a weapon that will cause knockdown ( Transformed hunter axe,LHB and esp church pick as it has follow r2 ) Killing them without any hassle

[@Pie_Smacker]

I feel like they resemble the Doll because the Great Ones brought her to life, and since the messengers are creatures that are meant to help, they likely took her image with them to try and aid others. In the Nightmares, places of pain and suffering and reality warp, the ones who brought the Doll with them got corrupted. Id assume the normal messengers we see in the Nightmares are the lucky ones or safe purely for gameplay purposes, since the messengers also exist in the squid things, iirc

[@tannerpickle]

I have played Bloodborne a ton and never once noticed that their heads are made of messengers. Holy shit. Great video as usual, Zullie.

[@HigorHell]

It’s those little details like this that make me love Bloodborne so much

[@Wyattearpp]

Between the winter lanterns, brainsuckers, and the shark giants in the well, the title of "Worst Enemy" is a hotly contested one. I remember being so terrified of the singing my first playthrough. Being in the Nightmare of Mensis was bad enough. Then I hear a joyous "La la la" Chills

[@UCannotDefeatMyShmeat]

They make frenzy go up even after they die, you cannot stop it as far as I know

[@Hurtdeer]

easily my favourite enemy in the game. nothing else quite offers the combination of inexplicable and terror as much as these lot. they present absolute dread on both an aesthetic and a technical, gameplay based level, and i respect it

[@fearsome_fox3278]

Your bloodborne videos restore my humanity I love learning extra little bits of info about this game its fantastic

[@superturkle]

1:31 now the name makes sense. thank you zullie :) the amygdala head, winter lantern flower, tonsil item, environmental imagery in the forbidden woods; makes me think me think of Zdzisław Beksiński's artwork. maybe the concept artists were a fan of his too?

[@judgem0rt1s23]

I want to resurrect HP Lovecraft just to show him this game.

[@Matthias_F.]

I always called them Oohlala Ladies.

[@Sprech41]

and yet I crave listening to their delightful singing

[@Vesperitis]

*sigh...* I keep watching these videos and they keep zooming in onto my new nightmares.

[@retrowild6778]

I personally dont believe they have any connection with the doll, and its just the nightmare creating a warped familiarity for your character, using the doll and messangers (your only allies really) to lure you in, thats why they sing beautifully as well. Simple eldritch lure.

[@phylippezimmermannpaquin2062]

I'm glad someone appreciates the body horror fromsoft keeps burning into our minds

[@PresidentSears]

Hozuki actually looks a lot like Human Effigy from DS2 cutscene

[@roundninja]

I always wondered if a winter lantern is a doll's true form, outside the comforting illusions of the Hunter's Dream. Or maybe they're what becomes of dead dolls. There's no proof of this in the game though

[@BleddynsStudio]

That one labyrinth-like part with 2 of these wandering around in the Nightmare of Mensis actually felt like a horror game scenario. I want nothing more than to stay the hell away from these things, and the cramped spaces and short walls make it nerve-wracking to sneak around them. All the while you hear their chilling singing

[@cobaltprime9467]

It may have the Doll’s clothes because it’s a nightmare. Taking aspects of our own memories and integrating them into their forms. Possibly allowing them to inflict frenzy more easily by having a connection to something comforting.

[@CassidyListon]

I knew about the association with the doll, but I didn't know about the Messengers also being a part of the model. Keen observation.

[@rustyshackelford312]

Winter Lantern sounds so nice, comforting and warm.

[@EffortlessAttempt]

I held off on subbing to you, but I finally realize you care for this series, lol. I overtly cared for it, too, an while I don't think it's a bad thing... I have taken some steps back. From the World, as a Whole,

[@BigMac87963]

Just when I thought they couldn’t be any scarier, you had to show me their mouths

[@akashparhi7004]

Looks like Cape gooseberry, ...in the nightshade family... supposedly tastes good

[@SamsarasArt]

I hate those enemies so much