A-Levels: Anger rises over 'unfair' exam results as grades lower than predicted - BBC Newsnight

There is anger among schools, colleges and students, after nearly 40% of A-level grades awarded on Thursday were lower than teachers' predictions. Subscribe to our channel here: goo.gl/31Q53F
In England, 36% of entries had a lower grade than teachers predicted and 3% were down two grades, in results after exams were cancelled by the pandemic.
School and college leaders are calling for a review and say all fees for appeals should be waived.
Prime Minister Boris Johnson said the results were a "robust set of grades".
The overall results, across England, Northern Ireland and Wales, show record highs for A* and A grades.
#BBC #BBCNews #Newsnight
Newsnight is the BBC's flagship news and current affairs TV programme - with analysis, debate, exclusives, and robust interviews.
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[@dfsx7934]

lmao who remembers in March when they said all students will get the grades they deserve now look what happened

[@tawanamufasa291]

They always say what will please you temporarily at the time. Then change it. That's the government for you.

[@rogerbennett9641]

@@tawanamufasa291 People today just don't know how to deal with failure these days or so it seems, that's where the idea of educations everyone's a winner policy fails people. For a successful, satisfying life you have to recognise where your abilities lie hone them and play to them otherwise you are just deceiving yourself and will never be truly happy.

[@jellyjuice6941]

Yeah but it is fair tho that’s the thing chavs don’t work hard enough so deserve a d in economics or business or what ever

[@dfsx7934]

Jelly Juice not all poor people are chavs though i’m poor and care about my future and grades i worked my ass off why do i deserve to suffer just because of other ppl not trying

[@dfsx7934]

Steven Austin personally i want my teacher predicted grades they know me well enough to give me fair grades not too high & not too low just perfect for me

[@sevenman9672]

Lack credibility!? Grades based on *imaginary* exams that never happened are what lack credibility!

[@astrongyoungwoman2460]

Thats true

[@Neil-qg9cw]

Imagine losing your place at university because a random algorithm said people from your town a couple of years ago were too dumb 😂🤦‍♂️ you couldn't make it up

[@GkikaKonomi]

Trust this is crazy

[@beanhole123]

Funny to think my u grade in history 5 years ago can get someone a u grade now

[@charlie_skc]

you rlly couldn't but i'd still believe it. our government comes up with so much shit nothing surprises me anymore

[@mnomadvfx]

@@charlie_skc "our ogvernment" that isn't now, and has never been for 99% of us. Just the 1% ers it really serves.

[@charlie_skc]

Kenny Hill oh i didn’t mean to imply that they actually cared about or tried to serve the 99%. i mean that they’re so capitalistic i don’t get why everyone is so shocked when they do shit like this.

[@robbiehughes4244]

So ridiculous these results

[@lazarium1154]

Follow Scotland and do the right thing Boris. This is disgraceful. Don't ruin the hardworking future of this country. Also Scottish children currently stand at an extreme advantage if you don't.

[@inquaanate2393]

JT the teacher predictions were 40% higher than the results last year, teacher predictions are always wildly over exaggerated to get their students into uni and to make the schools look good. Teacher predictions are a lot of rubbish.

[@davemitchison6798]

@@inquaanate2393 I agree, using the teacher's grading of a student as a final result is a ridiculous idea. A teacher has a vested interest in students having a good grade and they artificially inflate the scores to reflect this unconscious bias. If the students do well it reflects well on them and this will skew the results unfairly above where they would be. The apprenticeship system was changed as the system where the teacher was also the person grading the final result devalued the qualification and meant people who did not deserve to succeed did so. The algorithm does not appear to be perfect but in my opinion it is the best of a bad bunch.

[@inquaanate2393]

Dave Mitchison +

[@edwarddewinton345]

Inqu'aanate what the exam boards should have done is to moderate the teacher predictions by taking in a sample of student work instead of sitting on their arses all summer

[@alexsilk5648]

Scotland is NOT the right way to go. Don't devalue people's good grades they have got already which even based on algorithms, is still nonetheless intrinsically linked to work-ethic and talent. The student ranked 1st and who gets A* should not get the same as a student ranked 7th as clearly there is a huge divide between them, even according to the teachers. Getting an A* or an A should be an achievement, not a formality

[@DevMotiv8]

It’s disgusting how the government is playing with these students results

[@JackSanderson.MP3]

Hey, thanks if you sign this (: www.change.org/SaveUKEducation

[@simonhool3073]

Hawk Drums Because a petition is going to make a difference, be real now.

[@Lennonruthven]

@@simonhool3073 Ah, he's trying...

[@paxundpeace9970]

Extra A for private schools

[@gavinturner5565]

A*, lol

[@BBean26]

The interviewer - and we - might understand the situation better if she let the gentleman complete the answers to her questions without constantly interrupting him.

[@martycrow]

Genuine question: What would the Uni admissions process look like if Uni offers were made on the basis of *actual* results? Yes, there isn't enough time from results in mid-August to start of Uni term in early to mid-Sept. But would pushing back the start of term by a few weeks or a month, be such a terrible thing? Especially when you compare it to the enormously complex "solutions" that people are deploying - eg teacher assessments, algorithmic adjustments, appeals (and cost), stress all round. Whose interest does this all serve? Why aren't people seeing the wood for the trees? *To hear that that is already the case in Scotland is shocking!*

[@annagibson3075]

Do you mean that we should just be given exams next month? With all due respect, we haven’t been taught for 6 full months, and some of us haven’t been contacted by teachers once during that time. And in terms of teaching ourselves, we’ve been made to give back our textbooks and resources. We have nothing to learn from, and we never got to finish our subject content. Realistically, it’s impossible and it seems like a way for the government to shift blame onto students when they complain.

[@martycrow]

​@@annagibson3075 That is not at all what i meant. I can understand and sympathise with you. I was commenting about what could happen in the future to avoid the fiasco we now face. Let me add... The "problem" is being presented as a conflict between two ways of predicting exam grades - 1) teacher assessments (said to be too lenient) 2) software adjusted (said to be unfair to many). Despite biases, teachers understand their students in context, mixing objective with subjective factors. Algorithms carry biases also, depending on what they are programmed to address. So pros and cons. The longer-term "solution" is staring us in the face. What both the above "solutions" trying to do is to predict results of an event - exams. That problem would not arise if you base Uni admissions on actual exam results. The present situation has arisen because exams were cancelled. It is a mess and I don't have a clever answer. It just seems to me that given the impact of Covid-19 on the economy, society, young people etc, the better choice is to get more young people to go to Uni rather than to the dole queue. It makes economic and social sense. Hope that clarifies. Good luck!

[@simonhool3073]

martycrow Rest of Europe offer uni places upon real results not predicted.

[@jackrussell3755]

But when the Scottish government done this the tories went mental and wanted the education secretary to resign but now that it’s happened in tory England and labour Wales the tories and labour in Scotland are scrambling to delete and hide everything they said 🥴

[@NotAnotherKuromi]

Why does nobody seem to be discussing that perhaps the teachers are more acuratly able to estimate a child's true potential rather than one exam? Rather than teachers "overestimating" students grades, maybe they are the ones who are able to assess what grade the student is actually working at. So usually, based on exams, students get lower grades than they deserve. Maybe this provides an oppertunity to question the status quo & realize that exams are not the most accurate tool to measure someones understanding, knowledge or ability in most, if not all, subjects.

[@lauramackenzie1157]

A complete unmitigated disaster where class and money wins...again. These poor kids!!!

[@indigoblue4791]

Heartbreaking and completely avoidable, this ridiculous system doesn't make any sense and is clearly not a fair one or working for anyone!!!

[@kookikitten]

It is working just fine for the rich, inflating their gades while everyone elses are downgraded.

[@simonhool3073]

Assia Hussain Many grades from independent schools have been downgraded.

[@metastract]

The difference with Oxbridge applications is that they don't really care how much you'll improve later on in the final exam or what your potential is. They like it if you have been a top performer in every single exam and subject ever taken, as well as where you come from, what your parents do, etc.

[@GoinMLG]

Oxbridge dont give a shit about where you come from. The only thing that they care about is academics.

[@Chrispchicken121]

Not to be negative, but had to switch off the video halfway through the interview because she kept interrupting him so frustrating to watch

[@terezaborges9365]

#followscotland

[@2s2r2h]

CLASSISM.

[@raeeskhan85]

Excellent , articulate headteacher. Hit nail on the head.

[@johnt7024]

Students in the worse school had it tougher

[@qusister9434]

This education system is a fucking joke, i hope it's not the same in my country because we use the same system as britain.

[@franciscolarez2001]

All my classes were of 20+ students. My college is a recently opened public school (2015), and although with good progress data, the general performance is lower than the area's average. However, I worked hard enough to get good GCSE grades and all throughout college, and managed to get the results I was working towards for my A-levels under the "rigged system". Are the teachers and the system really the ones to blame for students' results?

[@malavaghela691]

It’s disgraceful to judge individual students with some kind of useless system which took future and dreams of children. This is not fair on student going to under achiever school. Revert to teachers assessment.

[@testingtimes7924]

All students have the opportunity to take a test for any grade that they think was unfair. The grades achieved were 2% higher than previously. Adopting the Scottish way of upgrading, apparently everyone, is ridiculous and unfair. If you are unhappy, take the tests in the Autumn.

[@simonhool3073]

Testing times Taking the tests in Autumn is not a viable option. Students have had no teaching for over 6 months and have not revisited 1st year topics either with the addition of exam technique practice. You cannot suddenly get the A you need in 2/3 months to go to your first choice uni next year now. If it was possible sixth form would be one year.

[@dfsx7934]

wish i was from finland they have the best education system everr

[@dfsx7934]

Bobby Sands it’s not my cousins live in finland lol

[@aphiwemagaya3279]

Well i think also the government is in a lot of pressure,protesting is not a solution. Plus they are still young,you can always upgrade your results next year because you can't be keen that at college/university you will attend physical classes while the pandemic has done a lot of harm. Currently in South Africa all higher education institutions are completing work online,it's stressful but better than not completing your year or qualification.I wish our government did this because they are going to make grade 12 learners write sit-down exams :(

[@kenrehill8775]

Can’t you play the race card? That’s normal now isn’t it?

[@joyridesham]

Teachers are professionals and correct they have known these students for 5 to 7.years and it is good the government has done a U-Turn. My son got his GSCE results today he was predicted all 9 but he got grades from teacher assessment which was more 8 and few 9 and we are happy with the results although we know he would have got a few more 9 if he sat the exams cause I have seen previously from my post graduate and under graduate children they did better in real exams then the mock. Teachers are more correct then some computer algorithms and as you can see they just didn't dish out grades generously.

[@Zukiso]

Why do you guys moderate grades??

[@annalorenc8892]

What do you expect from a fireplace salesman with two A-levels (unknown grades)?

[@lickopotamusslurperton1944]

This is a BBC post that will automatically bumlick the Tories. The Telegraph post was more sympathetic. What does that tell you?

[@Stacey16......]

I don't understand why the exams couldn't be sat in the first place, everyone is separated in the exam hall

[@jonsid6628]

Because 99% of state sector employees stopped working 5 months ago - on full pay. Most are still off work.

[@Stacey16......]

@@jonsid6628 seems a bit stupid though, if these exams are as important as everyone's banging on about you'd think they'd have tried to come up with a solution so pupils could sit them

[@simonhool3073]

Jon Sid Thousands of teachers were furloughed, it’s down to the school. In some cases they lost jobs.

[@jonsid6628]

@@simonhool3073 Of course they did. 🤪

[@silentgamer1997]

The students were definitely robbed

[@Jahmed5635]

Loool I only clicked because I thought the guy in the thumbnail was wearing a wig

[@Harrison-ss2ct]

We are basically getting someone else’s grade

[@billdemudd6697]

They withdrew my application for oxford and cambridge before i even applied I feel very hard done by,saddened,and i really,really,deserve a top degree

[@aidilaziz00]

In my AS i got A for chemistry but this time i got U for chemistry 5,,well played Alevel

[@1salahudin]

Yes the results are higher for posh schools ffs. Why don't you mention that?

[@simonhool3073]

1salahudin The BBC have mentioned in previous news stories over the last 24 hours how independent schools have not been affected as closely as state schools.

[@laniedelapena7537]

hi keep on blogging

[@ch4mpion833]

LMFAOOOO

[@marburyeducation]

Just everyone a top grade and then they might stop complaining.........this is ridiculous.

[@charles-vq6sd]

feel sorry for the cambridge applicant. i hope he appeals and gets in.

[@Ollay245]

Don't feel too bad for him, I'm almost certain that he has a great work ethic. Regardless of what university he attends, if he keeps that up he's going to suceed in some way 😁

[@4lokopeach692]

Oliver Marie you mustn’t understand the prestige of Cambridge with a comment like that

[@ukTamas]

@games games #thefuckareyouon

[@kookikitten]

He DOES have a great work ethic if he was predicted 4A*. But now he does not get the reward he earned. Just look at how many prime ministers/ presidents went to Eton, Cambridge, Harvard and other prestigous ivy league universities and colleges etc. It aint about them being inherently better schools/students but about them accepting so many 'legacy' students aka kids whose super rich parents bought their way in. It's about the connections they make.

[@joannesaltfleet2071]

That's so bloody unfair when you think you are getting something and then no you aren't!

[@aaroncrilly2005]

The problem with the education system today is that it's treated as a business instead of a public service

[@peteradaniel]

It’s a Tory fuck up.

[@darkflighter100]

100% - from the academisation of schools to the continuity of private schools, this problem won't be solved when we do what Finland did in the 1970s and unify all schools into a singular school system.

[@crown9413]

The problem is that it isn't treated as a business, so many students leave uni unable to get more than a basic bar job. If it were a buisiness there would be courses with stronger industry accreditation and links.

[@Elphin89]

Crown9 no it’s very much a business - the game is called ‘bums on seats’. The university overinflated the importance of degrees and offer courses with no real world use or application. The business is student loan debt and selling it to 3rd parties. The university ‘product’ hasn’t changed in decades but the administrative side has become bloated and excessive. If the universities were honest, they’d admit most of the courses they offer are complete dross

[@crown9413]

​@@Elphin89 If these universities actually were businesses the ones with excessive administration would run out of money and close down or be forced to cut, right now when they fail they just get more money. It wasn't the universities who made everyone go but Tony Blair's target of 50% of getting young adults in and his legislation that made these enormous student loans in the first place.

[@dylanlcreser]

As someone who was meant to have my GCSE exams this summer, I'm devastated. The government has really messed this whole system up and is causing so much unnecessary stress and pain on myself and my peers. Please, do the right thing, and make the system fair.

[@user-iz9co4qf6z]

Teacher predictions aren't fair though so what's the solution?

[@dylanlcreser]

My solution would be moderation but with a lock on the candidate's mock grades, so they get at a minimum, what they've already proven they can do

[@suditi30]

Literally if they are showing like no support to people who are legit going to uni , im not expecting much for us either.

[@user-iz9co4qf6z]

@@suditi30 you don't want to go to uni this year and miss out on being a fresher. That's where you make your friends for life.

[@robertparr1256]

Dylan dont be devastated this is just a hurdle in life and yes although it's a friggin big one you are going to be ok...just be true to yourself and your family!! Trust me from a bloke from a poor educated back ground I am 42 now and have had a great life so if i can do it you will smash it....good luck mate and all the best:)))

[@dfsx7934]

it’s the classism for me😍🥰🥰🥰❤️

[@jennyb.9237]

My heart is broken...I'm deeply hurt. There's no way I can describe how disappointed I am.

[@joannesaltfleet2071]

Its upsetting isn't it when you psyche yourself up for something and think you are getting a certain grade and no you aren't and its that its unfair is what upsets people.

[@user-iz9co4qf6z]

I repeated my a levels and now I have a PhD and am a researcher in environmental science

[@joannesaltfleet2071]

@@user-iz9co4qf6z when blows like that happen at the time it feels like the end of the world. Many years ago I worked in a kitchen and I had wanted a cooks job and I had said to the line manager how I had wanted it. The cooks job got given to someone else in an unfair manner and it had caused ill feelings to fester and at the time it had felt like the end of the world but now I can look back and feel they did me a favour as that wasn't meant to have been for me.

[@joannesaltfleet2071]

I was heartbroken years ago when I didn't get a cooks job I had really wanted but the passing of time has helped me come to terms with it.

[@uzairchaudhary1202]

Aw poor u

[@555pontifex]

Here's a bit of logic for you: An algorithm has been applied to downgrade the grades because teachers 'over-predict'. If a student is genuinely worth A*, it is impossible to over-predict that, because there is no higher grade, no continuum above. Therefore, downgrading a prediction of A* guarantees unfairness.

[@chiefakif2739]

Yup happened to me. I was at A*AA and was downgraded to BBB.

[@noelleirina5628]

I don't really think you understand what over predicting means. If the teacher put in A* and is "likely to over predict," that means the student was more likely to get less than A*. Not more than an A*.

[@chiefakif2739]

@@noelleirina5628 But all they're doing is guessing. This means a student that is definitely working at an A* level but goes to a low performing school in a poor area gets downgraded even though they deserve the grade the school gave them.

[@chiefakif2739]

@@noelleirina5628 I got ABB for my mocks and was predicted A*AA. Ended up with BBB. How is that fair? How is that logical? Quite obviously the algorithm they're using is classist.

[@HassanKhan-le2vj]

Chief Akif yeah I got A*AB in my a-level mocks even in my AS I sat external exams with the exam boards and got AAB in my first year, was predicted A*AA but I came out with BBB and lost my offer at UCL and my college is in a deprived area let’s not forget that part

[@Matthew-ul6of]

This is so unfair, i better not have to sit in college and retake my GCSEs for another year lmao

[@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904]

Same here. I was just getting the hang of it meself.

[@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904]

XIII I knew a woman who was doing the same degree for over 8 years.

[@Surfing566]

@@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904 the money lost.

[@mrlawilliamsukwarmachine4904]

@@Surfing566 She's extremely rich

[@x_teamjoanne_x9770]

I get my gcse results next week and I’m preparing for the worst. Honestly is disgusts me that although me and many others spent hours working so so hard to get the grades we deserve but this is altered because we don’t go to a private school and is solely based on our postcode. Like these grades change peoples futures but the exam board don’t seem to care. There’s no excuse of downgrading students who were improving and working consistently at a grade to get a whole grade or two below, what part of that makes sense? I’m now just crossing my fingers for next week that in their random selection of public school kids that I actually get the grades that I know I deserve.

[@Biocube101]

x_ teamjoanne _x I’m very sorry for you. I hope you get the grades you want.

[@Jade-cq4gv]

I feel really bad I pray you get the results you need 🙏🏿

[@x_teamjoanne_x9770]

Mr Penguin thank you ❤️🤞🏻

[@x_teamjoanne_x9770]

Jadesola Fanijo thank you so much, I wish the best of luck to everyone else too ❤️🤞🏻

[@Biocube101]

x_ teamjoanne _x no problem!

[@motivationinspiration5794]

working class students grade downgraded while up class students get there predicted grades its a absolute disgrace.

[@heliotropezzz333]

*upper class? * their

[@gavinturner5565]

Blue Ball Tories.....what a joke, except it's on ourselves! Blue Blood Bastards!!! At it again!!!

[@enken567]

@@heliotropezzz333 Really? Why do you see it fit to resort to such petty behaviour at a time in which many are devastated. Unkind, inappropriate and mean but at least you feel superior about your correct use of grammar. A*

[@heliotropezzz333]

@@enken567 Because people will be marked down if their spelling and grammar isn't good. It's a sad fact of life. I come from the working class myself and don't feel superior.

[@dilz2825]

Honestly as a student from a sixth form who was expecting AAB to get DDC. This algorithm has really been systematically flawed leaving a lot of students like myself without uni offers with no clarity on a way out

[@Neil-qg9cw]

Super unfair. But take this opportunity to look into a job or apprenticeship. That way you can get paid while you learn. Going to Uni is a massive scam, and just gets you tied up in tonnes of debt with zero guarantee of a job. You can always go back to Uni later if you decide it's worthwhile. As someone who graduated a few years ago, with Honours, I wish someone said this to me. The job market values experience over a degree every time.

[@astrongyoungwoman2460]

@@Katzian very true you know

[@pkysam1853]

I’m in the same situation except they’ve given me lower grades. I gave up on life. My teachers were confused but did nothing to help. My school even ended up getting reformed.

[@dfsx7934]

i understand bringing our grade down by one grade but it’s wrong to make someone go from an A to a C-U that is so wrong

[@AshSama86]

It sorta doesn't matter once you go down even one grade in most cases. Most students will have conditionals based on exact grades i.e medicine A*AAA, so going down to a B in even one subject would rescind their offer completely.

[@mohsinrao4334]

My sister with straight A*s in GCSE, A*AA predicted at A-level and an offer to read History at UCL had her results downgraded to AAB. Her offer at UCL has since been rescinded. Where is the justice in that?

[@stephenconlon653]

That’s bad, she should reapply next year and retake her A levels

[@hyperdudecomments4577]

Stephen Conlon I don’t think she has enough time to retake. Exams for a level take place in October and lockdown began in March. I don’t think they even have finished the content meaning they would have to learn it themselves. Stupid Boris

[@CatnipMasterRace]

@OnlineOriginal Official Sure its good for you, but if you know you can do better you should expect better, especially if it means going to a better university.

[@superguyx5468]

Her personal statement must have been horrid. I got into an ABB course with BCC to one of the top universities

[@mohsinrao4334]

superguy X it was not. She was pooled by Cambridge and almost got in. Did you not watch the report? It wasn’t her fault.

[@cyndawu1940]

A Level results year is like what happened at the end of Infinity war with Thanos. Thanos wipes half of the universe and random people are selected to die for no reason. Results year are also like this. Random students are chosen to get downgraded for no reason. How does the UK manage to make a grading system as ridiculous as Thanos? You can't make a system that lets algorithm decides who to downgrade.

[@littletraveller5428]

I could bet all the kids from Westminster and eton got their Oxbridge places without issue

[@astrongyoungwoman2460]

Maybe

[@selasiametewee]

Right!? Who's yoh DADDY...not so much mummy!!! Bahahaha...🤦🏼‍♀️🤣🤣🤣

[@ThePrudentOne]

They didn't need to cancel the exams in the first place. The government was incredibly rash in their decision and simply should have waited it out until we realised that if we distanced , wore a mask and extended the exam period while we made sure pupils weren't as cramped together, exams could've gone ahead. Instead the government doubled down on something that eventually helped the rich and were the slowest to act in western Europe with compulsory masks, something which would've helped everyone. Typical tories...

[@tacticoolnukes849]

They didnt need to cancel the exams but they would have needed to very quickly switch from teaching in person to teaching online. Not to mention this could severely affect students without access to computers, smartphones or fast wifi to attend online courses. Not to mention we dont actually know how to transfer teaching to online. It would have been far far more polarising for students. Privillaged students would be more likely to get higher grades even if theyre not attending private schools. unprivillaged students who cant afford their own books, laptops, phones or fast wifi would be far more likely to tank exams. This could not be less unfair than judging through teacher suggestions and algorithms.

[@ThePrudentOne]

Daniel Cook I doubt students wouldn’t be able to afford materials to work off of. I am in lower sixth and we transitioned to online teaching effectively. I did most of my work on my phone when I couldn’t access the family computer and I believe that I was MORE productive working largely on my own. I don’t buy the fact that students couldn’t buy £20 books and couldn’t work from their phones. I just think it’s a condescending argument to poor people that generally just isn’t true

[@Jay_Johnson]

Most exam centres don't have enough space to socially distance students, the only practical way to do it was to half to quarter the sitting sizes and double to quadruple the exam period length holding the others in isolation until they sit the exam, if they did that they would not only need to reschedule the entire exam season but probably put back this years university start date. Whilst they should have done this, they obviously decided they wanted to decrease disruption for students, obviously this was the wrong decision to make but at the time it probably made sense.

[@ThePrudentOne]

Jay Johnson in Italy they didn’t cancel the exams... and now after a normal results day their students are fully prepared for Uni..

[@Jay_Johnson]

@@ThePrudentOne I don't think they should have cancelled the exams the outcome would have obviously been better if they had extended the exam period as I said in my last message I was just trying to put myself in their shoes. they made the decision before the evidence in Korea and china of the level of response was needed. they thought that it was what would be best to help SAVE LIVES, At the time few people disagreed with them as it seemed they finally took action on something.

[@adrenalinrush7438]

I got an A in the mock and a projected grade of an A pre-lockdown. Teacher entered me for a flippin B

[@gavinturner5565]

That friggin sucks for both. So so sorry to hear about your experience!!!

[@warren140]

i got downgraded from an aab to an acc 0.2% gang :(

[@nonereano4985]

@@warren140 eyyyy same here 0.2% gang gang gang on a serious note tho, this is such a joKeee

[@jellyjuice6941]

Adrenalin Rush good because you do t need an a

[@warren140]

@@nonereano4985 by the time we get to even appeal for our grades we'll already be in shit position.

[@margaretdent1312]

No masks or social distancing in the school giving out results?

[@nxthy6978]

In Scottish schools they make us wipe our desks down with disinfectant but there’s literally no point as no one is covering up when they sneeze, desks are in twos and there’s no masks

[@MrAdeelAH]

Benefit of the doubt: old stock footage?

[@RugbyLeagueSouth-Results]

The fault lies with the use of the Ranking order. 1. The way it should have worked is: Schools provide initial grade assessments 2. Ofqual tell schools - you gave x number of each grade the algorithm says you can only have y number of each grade 3. Schools apply Ranking order to award y number of each grade This means teachers determine who gets the grade!

[@jangodarkblade3360]

I was predicted AAAB and got BCCD. I got rejected from Medicine. Worst ever year

[@malayka8484]

appeal !!

[@jangodarkblade3360]

malayka makes no difference because my university has no more spaces 🤦🏼‍♂️

[@malayka8484]

@@jangodarkblade3360 our system is so dun outtt :(

[@jangodarkblade3360]

malayka our government has done more U turns than learner drivers.

[@malayka8484]

@@jangodarkblade3360facts 🤦🏽‍♀️ needs to pattern up

[@Top-Lip]

Maybe the underlying issue here isn't just about teacher assessments being too generous and unrealistic, creating false expectations, maybe it isn't just about inconsistencies with data in private schools due to the lack of statistics in esoteric subjects; while I acknowledge these are issues, there are clearly very obvious flaws within the structure of modern education, particularly regarding the grading system itself and the disparity between public and private schools that are also contributing heavily to this problem regardless of the aforementioned issues, with or without the impact of covid-19. It looks to me like covid-19 hasn't just exposed this country's inefficiency to deal with what could be compared to a "low-lethality" test run of a coronavirus strand compared to SARS and MERS, the impact of covid-19 has also exacerbated a lot of flaws within our economy and exposed weaknesses in our education system that have been left in a state of neglect for years, that we have also known about for years and done very little to really tackle. What happens if we are impacted by another strain of coronavirus in the future that has a similar rate of infectivity, a similar incubation period before symptoms are visible, but with more severe or lethal symptoms? This solution of using mock results clearly isn't working effectively across the board and won't work in a situation where schools may potentially have to close earlier much and 2 meter distancing for exams, classrooms may not work for a future strain, meaning educational facilities may need to close for longer. We have to seriously find alternative solutions for when Covid-19 is no longer a burden on society, because covid-19 isn't the only problem negatively impacting student grades, even under normal circumstances. I think its relatively obvious that teachers shouldn't be expected to know the intricacies of exam moderation and grading, however we also know exam results are based on memory and the latency in which information can be remembered and articulated within a time limit, and there differences between individuals, there are discrepancies between students from a smaller classroom environment where they can have more one-to-one interfaces with teachers and classrooms of 20-30 students which are more likely to be noisy but also where it is not possible for every student to have that in class support network. I would also argue that to expect a basic computer algorithm that doesn't use machine learning technology to reliably predict the grades of a student without human moderation is unreasonable and disingenuous. Not to mention, over time the latency from remembering the answer and writing it down quickly and effectively while scoring more points per question may be improved if the student becomes faster or learns new exam techniques to improve grades that they were unaware of in a mock exam, or after their grades were predicted. Humans aren't as simple as code or binary logic, a student at the time grade predictions were assumed may have completely changed by the time they take the real exam, because the mock may have exposed personal weaknesses. At the end of the day predictions even via computer algorithm are still predictions, and computer data cannot take the concept of intellectual growth/development into account because it isn't a human, it's an algorithm and even AI can't predict grades unless it can diagnose and existing cognitive issue impacting on an individual's memory retention, concentration, brain activity etc... If the algorithm used to determine grades is based on existing data and we intend to keep using this system in the future, despite being fine for now to an extent, we also need to take into account the impact of brain machine interface on the population in the future, because BMI technology will have an impact on average grades when it is widely available in the consumer space. We can't sleep on these issues forever, no matter if they still seem like problems that are decades away, transhumanism is inevitable and the UK needs to be more prepared for it. More prepared than we were for this virus. Would it hurt to maybe go back to the drawing board with our education system, if a virus can cripple the academic opportunities of students, instead of just looking at the fairest way to resolve this issue across the board, why don't we also take a deeper look at flaws within the grading system itself so that in the event of another virus or rapid evolutions within technology, we can potentially avoid a repeat of this issue?

[@silentnight1805]

Online schooling.

[@jonsid6628]

Why shouldn't teachers understand exam grading? I would think that quite central to their job.

[@bartholomewlyons]

Can someone reword what the OP wrote in a millions words, pls

[@peterlydiard3277]

I wouldn't trust an algorithm using machine learning either. That would probably be a black box with unknowable logic. An algorithm using explicit logic at least can be examined by human beings.

[@tomaszlanski3295]

So what you mean is , that rich that can go to expensive private schools , have better chances ? You no say. What else is new ?

[@black2.017]

Boris Johnson and most of his cabinet went to push schools do you think they care?

[@gnhonho]

Wake up you drunko, they are saying people from public schools got computer generated grades, and the ones from private schools got their teachers assessment.

[@samphazm]

ecz4 ‘public’ schools are the ones that are private here.

[@heliotropezzz333]

@@black2.017 *posh schools?

[@selasiametewee]

Right!???? Wake up people. That's why you were born P.O.O.R. God is fair. Period. 👩🏼‍💻🤷🏼‍♀️🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@EugeneWorld]

This government ... was elected by YOU! Well done Britain.

[@fahadkhan8931]

No I chose Labour. This guy is basically the equivalent to donald trump smh

[@justonetime6179]

Eugene's World this govt is sh*t but it was the best of the choices.

[@laurynhead1400]

"We asked the government if they wanted to respond to the thousands of students who's lives are now up in the air... But nobody wanted to come"

[@shree6527]

Teachers predictions don't overpredict if you have shown proof of getting that certain grade throughout the year.

[@bethg4249]

I’m livid. I was predicted A*ABC and I walked out with CCCD. My first choice university phoned me and said that even though I didn’t meet the terms of my condition, they’d accept me anyway because they knew my predicted. I was one of the lucky ones. I know so many people that didn’t get into university. It’s heartbreaking and appalling. Students deserve justice.

[@RugbyLeagueSouth-Results]

"The performance of any individual with regard to assessment or examination and the award of grades of attainment is solely down to the performance of that individual and can not be affected by any other individual's performance" The ranking order should never have been used! The use of statistical evidence and historical trends to set grade boundaries or the number of separate grades available must only be applied at national level. I believe that, along with perhaps understandable 'over grading' this is what has caused so much distortion among students grades. Ofqual and the Government got it wrong and should have instilled trust in C of As to report accurately and honestly and then modified the results in accordance with national trends.

[@callumlee8584]

Where’s the quote from?

[@RugbyLeagueSouth-Results]

@@callumlee8584 Me!

[@cubesquared2291]

''Because of the algorithm that generated their grades'' I swear I've heard a sentence like this in some dystopian, bleak, futuristic prediction/film somewhere.

[@gnhonho]

Computer generated grades. It is a thing... Computer generated grades. This dystopia got really ridiculous the last few years.

[@robbiehughes4244]

My girlfrined predicted a A A A in phscology gets d and b in French and Spanish not right

[@inquaanate2393]

Robbie Hughes my girlfriend was predicted A*AB, she got BBC, in 2016. Teacher predictions are always massive over exaggerations.

[@heliotropezzz333]

* girlfriend *psychology

[@simonhool3073]

Robbie Hughes Less than a quarter of predicted grades are correct in the UK.

[@albion7186]

Labour: “Conservatives have done a terrible job”. Interviewer: “What’s labour’s policy, what would they have done?” Labour: “Well we’re going to sit on the fence and not say, but we’re going to consider all options” what a load of shite

[@sammargetic]

One of the reasons why the U.K. continues to decline both internationally and domestically is because its powerful and few persist on the unfair system which favors their own inept children and pushes U.K.’s best and brightest into emigration.

[@heliotropezzz333]

*Inapt means 'not suitable or appropriate in the circumstances'. I'd say that was an inapt word to describe children. Inept would seem to fit your meaning better.

[@sammargetic]

@@heliotropezzz333 thank you for catching the typo. I appreciate it.

[@jonsid6628]

If you wish to use the abbreviation "U.K." it may be best not to refer to it as "UK" later in your comment

[@heliotropezzz333]

Algorithms and models may be said to be fair 'overall' but they can't be wholly accurate on an individual level. They can't know what pupil X would really have got in the exams or who might have been given 'overoptimistic' grades by teachers. It's just a kind of guessing system.

[@adriankoh3854]

algorithm to predicting student grades: "Computer says Noooooo......"

[@APKHD02]

To be fair teachers get it wrong 84% of the time. However the algorithm was flawed

[@jaybee4118]

Jonathan L what did any of that have to do with the OP comment? Mansplaining isn’t simply interrupting, but it can be part of it. At least know what you’re talking about if you want to moan about it.

[@jaybee4118]

Aaron Kenton getting it wrong doesn’t usually mean downgrading someone from a c grade to a u! I’d be willing to bet the algorithm is way more wrong than the teachers would have been.

[@APKHD02]

Jay Bee very true and I hope everybody appeals if they feel they need to and eventually everyone gets the result they deserve. What does upset me is that some universities are not keeping their doors open for applicants currently in appeal which will mean many people won’t get into their chosen unis even through they deserve to be there

[@terezaborges9365]

It is indeed unfair

[@crown9413]

Too many students go to university anyway, we have a massive surplus of uni graduates studying useless subjects or the graduating students just vastly out number the jobs avaliable, leading to many graduates unable to get more than retail jobs. While we need more tradesmen and mechanics etc. Even after this too many As are awarded.

[@tagorewithlyric4394]

What exactly do you consider a "useless subject"?

[@muhammadaamimulehsanaakaei5822]

No subject is useless.. People have their own personal interests...

[@crown9413]

@@tagorewithlyric4394 Almost all subjects have worth, but there are many subjects you will never be able to make use of Anything that: -Could've been learnt online for nothing -Has no career path or is so popular that you would never get a job. Go to uni for pure learning and soft skills, when you're rich. -You aren't a prodigy in or are dedicated enough to, For some fields like art or physics, all the of the advancements and great works really come from a tiny number of people with talent, genius or hard work. A minority will still make use of their useless degree, but its cruel to allow and encourage everyone else to take enormous debts and waste years to get theirs.

[@tagorewithlyric4394]

@@crown9413 I get your point. Thanks!

[@crown9413]

@Green Mills Maths is a useless degree, he'd be much better off studying computer science online. With money he'd save he'd even be able to afford to send his own kid to private school. The private school kid would be squandering his advantage. Did you read my comments?

[@ac-hn8uc]

This is a great example, it not how clever you are. It is who your family is from.

[@geroffmilan3328]

The implementation of this algorithm, as well as its logic, is either stupefyingly myopic or profoundly malicious. Neither serves. Either requires action.

[@fatoundiaye4613]

Please everyone sign the petition online it has to reach 100000 so that the parliament do something

[@simonhool3073]

fatou ndiaye Petition will do nothing. Be real, a petition isn’t going to change anything. There is this belief that in the UK if we start a petition and get x amount of signatures they will change it.

[@fatoundiaye4613]

@@simonhool3073 you don't really know what will happen we don't have any other choice but to make them hear our voice if we sit and accept is wrong but if we do a petition people online are complaining on the news on social media, is the single petition but is all this things together

[@simonhool3073]

fatou ndiaye The government know our opinions hence why Ofqual have withdrawn policies within hours of being published today. Did you watch Gavin Williamson on ITV Good Morning? A petition will not help in anyway, for your voice or action.

[@fatoundiaye4613]

@@simonhool3073 than I will try again and again and again if so how did women got to vote black people got rights and LGBT got accepted they were stubborn 😊

[@simonhool3073]

fatou ndiaye Women got the vote through rather extreme methods which they had to take such as starving themselves, abusing themselves, causing arson and much much more. There weren’t petitions on a large or small scale. Over 6 million people signed the second referendum petition and the government didn’t do anything, they weren’t going to do anything regardless. LGBT rights, as an example when gay people could marry under the 2010-2015 government, this wasn’t from a petition on any scale.

[@Drinkwater.]

It's unfair because if this happends from where I am from I probably won't benefit.Yes I'm bias.

[@mikethebloodthirsty]

Yet again we hear that word algorithm... Notoriously inaccurate algorithms have predicted wildy differing numbers for virus fatalities over the years. When are we going to realise data results are only as good as the information fed into them?.

[@llemon6384]

Why does the shadow education secretary appear to be stuck in a cupboard under the stairs?

[@heliotropezzz333]

He remembers that Boris once hid in a fridge.

[@adaora2851]

"all students will get the grades they deserve" 💀

[@l3nny47]

Imperial college obviously were involved in developing the algorithm, what a car crash. The school's should get ALL fees refunded for these exams results this year

[@kristi1189]

The politicians will understand if you use an algorithm to count votes based on prior years. You got your own circus clown in the UK, boris’ government. I’m so sorry.

[@smileyraw]

Going through this with students regarding cambridge. They do not want minorities or working class kids..the entire point is so that it is an elitist safe place for the rich. Had a kid rejected with 2 A*s and 2As due to one of her A*s being marked down when she is a straight A* student.

[@RugbyLeagueSouth-Results]

Private School - students have been adversely impacted as well e.g. junior school CAT score - Verbal 130 - 140 (This is at the very top of the scale GCSE - Eng Lit 9, Eng Lang 8 A level - prediction A Awarded B

[@Neil-qg9cw]

If their parents can afford private school then they don't have much to worry about. Private schools are an absolute rip off.

[@simonhool3073]

Neil An absolute rip off, they really aren’t. If they were a rip off parents would withdraw their children or not work two jobs or cut back to send their children there, thousands do so every year. You don’t get the same opportunities in the vast majority of state schools compared to independent schools across the board, not just academia.

[@custossecretus5737]

It is already too late for many students. This fiasco has already wrecked many potentially great lives. Students have already lost out on first place choices and have accepted there 3rd choice because this disaster is still ongoing. The appeals process is an additional fiasco and students do not have the time when university places are going fast to wait to see what happens. They must of known this algorithm would disadvantage so many students and they still went with it. 🤦‍♂️

[@martindornan1667]

In Scotland the Scottish government after accepting teachers assessments said that they will create an extra 3000 university places for Scottish pupils so they will not miss out on a place at university. You have to remember that there will be less foreign students this year at Scottish university's because of the coronavirus.

[@ProjectUnity]

This is classism, plain and simple. Viva la revolution!

[@Joshua-eh1qg]

Got my A level results a couple days ago. Needed AAA for my course which I literally worked my ass off to try and get into it. Got an A* A B in my mock and they end up giving me BBC. It just shows how incompetent and stupid the grading system is. Many of my mates didn’t get into uni because they didn’t get the grades. My school individually was downgraded by a third and overall in NI where I am from by 40% and I go to a grammar school!

[@anjumshayk9232]

This is really unfair, you can't do this Boris Johnson. Please re-consider all cases again please.

[@jonathanlu8984]

Man am I so grateful that I was born in 2005 (Some random yr10 student)

[@karlcs901]

I understand everyone complaints about the algorithm etc and I have my fair share of mine too. However it was clear that all teachers would overestimate all grades. The resulting 40% increase in 7-9 grades means that all 2020 GCSE grades ( including myself) are now nearly worthless in the eyes of examiners and employers. The statistics presented primarily were in line with the trends that had been ongoing for years and probably a more fair (albeit more harsh) way or grading things. It shows that a protest can even change basic statistics and distribution.

[@5888max]

Sadly correct Karl , but I think the fact that you are bright enough to have worked it shows that your not going to have to worry about your devalued 2020 grades much !

[@karlcs901]

5888max thanks man! I’m sure it won’t be such a large problem. Will be interesting to see how this all turns out though :)

[@robertparr1256]

Keep your chin up everyone life is full of surprises and grades aren't everything..I was thrown through a school in Liverpool and have had a great successful life!! Remember grades dont define you...YOU define YOU and everything will be ok:)

[@Tens8a]

I don't think anything that has happened is intentional. My school has never performed at 100%. During guidance stage from Ofqual, there was no mention of using algorithms. Exam boards have used historical data, Anyway, we'll wait and see if appeals work.

[@icturner23]

Good on her for saying “but nobody wanted to appear” instead of the standard, euphemistic “but nobody was available”.

[@pkysam1853]

This has been going for ages. Back in 2015 they lost my paper and pretended it was an error and then gave me a random C a week later. Then the next year they gave me all Es.. completely different from my predicted grades of AAB. I tutor my younger sibling in the same subjects and she seems to be doing really well so it’s clearly not that I lacked the knowledge for the exams. My parents lost so much money on legal issues against the exam board and school. The school was reformed. My grades are still the same. I haven’t been able to find the courage to study again and I’ve lost every ounce of self confidence I had.

[@tonysingh1503]

There 's always a piece about an Oxford or Cambridge offer that's been withdrawn. What does it say about U.K's higher education system if in 2020 we only have two good universities and the rest are in a bin. Oxbridge is given far too much importance. What have they done for independent learners across the country with their 'teaching prowess' - American universities have put whole courses online for the world to benefit from.

[@gouki1522]

Imagine having an offer from Cambridge withdrawn because historically your school did badly so they gave you terrible results. UK Caste System at work folks, money gets you everything in this country. The idea of hard work is a meme, especially with a government that can just end your future with a handwritten note or press of a button.

[@mrdemocracy7106]

Moaning because you got low grades may be that's what it is not every one can get or deserves to have high grades. So every one should have high grades? I don't think so. Request to take a exam if you are not happy with your grades! This is what happens when grades are done with educated guesses rather than not taking actual exams which could of been postponed and arranged to be taken later in September / October as schools and teachers had plenty of time in their extended holiday to organise and students had a extra 5 months to revise. 2020 will be known as the year of educated guess grades'But Not to be taken seriously'.