The invention that broke English spelling

[@RobWords]

So what do you reckon? The most important invention of all time? Let me know. AND 🌏Get NordVPN 2Y plan + 4 months extra here ➼ nordvpn.com/robwordsvpn It’s risk-free with Nord’s 30-day money-back guarantee! ✌

[@суненеми]

SIX HOURS?! What þe hell?

[@jimb9063]

Can't understate the effects of the printed word. There may be more naval than printing jargon in English though, so will have to opt for the lateen sail or the Peckham Victorian egg timer.

[@timcampbell5758]

I’d say the inventor the farm beats out the printing press. The farm ended the tens of thousands of years of the palaeolithic era of incredible slow technological growth. It forced people to develop the resources of a smaller region which led to development of greater resources. For example clay for pottery and then metals for tools. The farm was the first step in humanity dominating and forcing nature to serve our needs, through the domestication of plants and animals. Finally it led to the growth of human populations which lead to the first kingdoms and nations. Roughly speaking you can look at the last hundred thousand years and 90% is the palaeolithic, the last 10% comes after that first farm. Truly world changing, nothing we have today would last if we all had to stop and hunt and gather our food. The farm, the greatest invention. I’d also like say thank you for all the great content here on your channel and your work on Words Unravelled. Keep up the thought provoking discussions.

[@timcampbell5758]

I’d say the inventor the farm beats out the printing press. The farm ended the tens of thousands of years of the palaeolithic era of incredible slow technological growth. It forced people to develop the resources of a smaller region which led to development of greater resources. For example clay for pottery and then metals for tools. The farm was the first step in humanity dominating and forcing nature to serve our needs, through the domestication of plants and animals. Finally it led to the growth of human populations which lead to the first kingdoms and nations. Roughly speaking you can look at the last hundred thousand years and 90% is the palaeolithic, the last 10% comes after that first farm. Truly world changing, nothing we have today would last if we all had to stop and hunt and gather our food. The farm, the greatest invention. I’d also want to say I love your channel as well as your work on Words Unravelled. Keep up the thought provoking content.

[@ShawnHCorey]

First of all, Gutenberg did not invent movable type. It was invented separately 3 times, twice in China and once in Europe. What Gutenberg did was to use it to mass print the bible. Second, the greatest invention of all time was language. The greatest invention in the past 2000 years was James Watt's steam engine. With it, textile mills could mass produce cloth, which lead to lots of rags, which lead to lots of cheap paper, which lead to lots of cheap books. It was the low cost of paper, not the low cost of printing, that cause the wide-spread literacy rates.

[@LinusBoman]

It was a real pleasure nerding out with you on all things print terminology, Rob! Hopefully, it’s no cliché to say I thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm sure this comment section will be quick to correct any of my incidental factual inaccuracies! My only request: before they do, I’d recommend watching my 'weaponized trivia' video first 😅 - Cheers!

[@sevenstars004]

I just discovered your channel and subscribed because of this comment. You've covered a lot of interesting topics. I'm watching your video on clip art now 👍

[@RobWords]

No beating Linus with the pedantry paddle, please! 😂 I reckon you were spot-on anyway.

[@amicaaranearum]

But weaponized trivia is the Internet’s favorite kind of trivia!

[@markrossow6303]

Buddhist teachers in Korea had moveable type before & separately, they designed a completly scientific alphabet, Hangul (based on the linguistic science from India)

[@hoodedcape]

Yeah, like just a few videos ago we learned from Rob that "stereotype" comes from the combination of two letters that appear often together (ch etc.), which is nicely in line with the usual meaning of stereo (as in stereo sound or stereoscopic 3D). The casting template that is described in this video here fits more to "prototype" in my head.

[@aceparrot2015]

The printing press also universalized how we write music! It’s actually why the stem of notes goes up on the right and down on the left. That’s just how the type was made! Before that, it was early enough in music-writing that it was interchangeable. I teach a junior high music history class, and this lesson is always one of their favorites. Thank you SO much for this video! It will add so much to this section!

[@jeandixon586]

That's so interesting! Thanks for sharing 🎼

[@jovetj]

Modern music engraving is so much more complicated than people would guess.... given how easy it is to understand, overall.

[@boxsterman77]

That’s another thing that needs reform. Don’t as me how, but I’m just learning to read music and it’s a nightmare. Maybe the introduction of color would help.

[@jovetj]

@@boxsterman77 There are many attempts at refinement and replacement out there. But I don't believe any of them have the level of elegance that standard notional already has.

[@Padraigp]

I mean they're still interchangeable. When you turn a right handed line up note upside down the line goes down and the circle bit is on the other side. They are just upside down normal notes. Don't they put egbdf ones up and the other ones down... all dogs sniff bums or whatever the in between lines stand for. Not a musical genius as you can probably guess. 😂

[@kellymoses8566]

cheap paper was critical to the success of the printing press. Before cheap paper was a thing all books were hand written on vellum, which was calf skin. A single book could require dozens of calves. So the printing press massively reduced the labor to copy a book and paper massively reduced the material cost to make a copy of a book. BOTH are necessary.

[@allangibson8494]

Hundreds of calves. A single bible would chew through over 300. Some of the Gutenberg Bibles were printed on vellum (and hand decorated). Hand made paper was still expensive however - that changed in 1799 with Nicholas Louis Robert’s continuous roll paper machine. (Interestingly the same time as the first numerically controlled machines (Jacquard weaving machines)).

[@publicminx]

actually the invention of Gutenberg was also not just about the printing press (out of a wine press actually) but also about 'modernizing' paper AND INK (Gutenberg and co had to find a fitting Inc - fitting to the used paper and the printing). it was a bunch of inventions (or next step in the evolution) which made the actual printing press working.

[@TheGreatAtario]

I would think there would not be much pressure to develop cheap paper without something opening up demand for it, like the printing press

[@kimyoonmisurnamefirst7061]

Paper and paper processing to add the key ingredient, cloth, etc was invented in China Second century. Like the Printing Press, first millennium A.D. The Diamond Sutra, a Buddhist book from Dunhuang, China from around 868 Movable type was also invented in China. That was Chinese in 1140 by Bi Sheng (990-1051 AD). He used clay for printing. Wang Zhen made wooden movable type, around 1297. 13th century Goryeo. Jikji is the first book to be printed with metal movable type. Uighurs then brought it to Europe. Gutenberg invented the adjustable type mould. This allowed people to make letters quickly, which is how you get fonts later in history. Something he rarely gets credit for.

[@igrim4777]

In addition to what kimyoonmi has said, books existed around the world, on paper, wood, papyrus, clay, bamboo, silk and others, so not all books were on vellum. Even confining the time and place, late Medieval European books weren't all on vellum, vellum was less common than other parchment due to its cost.

[@lionspawfilmandphoto]

I'm with you @RobWords! BRING BACK THORN! Þink about it!

[@Ellebeeby]

I have a þorn addiction!

[@jorgelotr3752]

And for the ᚹynn?

[@perla5465]

briŋ baq þɔn!

[@runningoven]

Yeah, bring back þorn, I love þorn

[@Gummi1984]

We are rooting for you guys 😆🇮🇸

[@sharonwilkes6648]

I homeschool my children, and they often get frustrated with our silly, inconsistent spelling system. I showed your GVS and printing press vids to my oldest (10yo), and she found them very handy. They answered a lot of her questions. Thank you Rob!

[@MisterFreshD]

In German we've had multiple spelling reforms to make the written language more in line with the spoken one. English could really use some of that

[@HalfEye79]

Yeah, the last (big) one, I know about, was mostly of these two things: - The usage ß is more consistent. When a sharp s is after a long vowel or a diphthong, then an ß is used. When the vowel is short, then ss is used. Before a word couldn't end with ss. - A letter three times in a row is now possible. That is when there is a compound word with the former part ends with a double letter and the latter part begins with the same letter. Before that a letter could max doubled. There may be more changes, but the others were only small.

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

Try with write, rite, right and Wright.

[@NoahSpurrier]

Yes, but there is no agency that defines the rules of English spelling, so this would be difficult.

[@carlnapp4412]

Und das Internet fügt unablässig hanebüchene Schreibweisen hinzu.

[@magnusdagbro8226]

Agree, but English being a world language really makes that nearly impossible. Because no single entity is able to claim authority on how it's written.

[@GeoLover]

funny as nowaday, dutch spelling for ghost is "geest" without a 'h'

[@erichendriks2807]

We Dutch (and also the Germans) had multiple spelling reforms --- starting in the 19th century --- to make written language more in line with the spoken form. When these reforms are published there tends to be a lot of opposition, but in the long run they have proven to be very useful. Just compare the Dutch and German spelling systems to that of English..

[@zetectic7968]

Geest bananas 😉

[@alanprior7650]

The Dutch or flemish language had such profound influence on English. I suppose it's why Dutch speakers can easily learn English.

[@allangibson8494]

@@alanprior7650It helps when your monarch is Dutch… (William of Orange…).

[@coryman125]

@@alanprior7650 As an English speaker who (somewhat) learned Dutch, it's really interesting seeing the influence. Some sentences are basically interchangeable ("waar is de kat?" -? "where is the cat?"), and a lot of things sound very archaic ("mijn kamer" -> "mine chamber" -> "my room", or "ik zal" -> "I shall" -> I will"). If I had to guess, probably sounds dated because the two languages have been drifting apart, and so the similarities we see are to older forms of English? Either way it's a fun language to get to know

[@stormveil]

Δe θing is δat the Greeks offer us some option too. Đere is no need to restrict ourselves to only þorn (which can look like someþing else). Đe Icelandics have ðat too. Ďats wiďout even mentioning diacritical options. Even đe Sami have đis ŧing. Þe options are many!

[@angelos9800]

as a greek, i am so confused...

[@headerahelix]

Is there some reason why so many of them look like some variation of D and d? And is it related to why many speakers of English replace the TH sound with a D sound?

[@MarkelMathurin]

Not going to happen bud, English is international

[@CheeseAlarm]

​@@headerahelixplus remember that "dd" in Welsh is pronounced like a voiced "th". Ddat could be useful too. (I'm not a Welsh speaker so apols if I've missed some subtlety if Welsh pronunciation ddere)

[@gabor6259]

Þe options? You mean 'Đe options'.

[@andysneddon8288]

As an English teacher of non-English speaking students, I just love these videos, Robs Words the podcast with Jess and now Linus. When students ask me about an English peculiarity such as why 'ph' is pronounced 'f' (to name but one) I can explain. Even my high school teachers years ago would not or (probably) didn't know, so thank you, Rob and friends.

[@AcroCake]

Rob, your videos just keep getting better and better. The research, the cinematography and editing, the humour. Just fantastic. Also "yamite fall down" at 10:00 is everything.

[@mshonle]

The “fonts” folder used to contain a file for each style and size, before the advent of vector based formats. Similarly, because you can change the font size via the font menu (or submenu), it’s correct to use the word “font” and not necessarily “typeface.” People do use the word font incorrectly all the time, but the menu and directory names are correct.

[@dj1NM3]

...and because *somebody* had to name that new-fangled computer stuff which appeared in the 1980s and they weren't necessarily a typesetter or printer, whatever they did has been carried forwards to today. Even if it probably does grate on the nerves of printing tradies.

[@JosuaKrause]

you also have specialized glyphs for small sizes or bold / italic. that is the case for vector based formats, too. it's all stored in the same file, though

[@williamduncan7401]

Usually computer fonts come in 5 variants: regular, bold, italic and bold italic so IMO it makes sense to call those fonts. In these, only the size is variable. But what about "variable fonts"? These have fully variable weight (boldness), from hair thin to heavy heavy bold (with infinite precision), and also have italic (slanted) built-in. I believe typeface refers to the general design, so you have the Inter typeface, or the Helvetica typeface, but the files that you download/install are actually font files, not typefaces. If the typeface has a file, it would probably be one that its author uses to create/generate the different styles/variants and unusuable for writing any text.

[@c_karis_1]

If it's used consistently incorrectly, doesn't that mean that its meaning has evolved?

[@senjaz]

@@dj1NM3mshonle is correct. The folder is named correctly. All of this comes from the desktop publishing revolution and the people working at Apple and Adobe really did know printing and all of its technical terms. Apple’s creation of a rich typographical system that was available to all programmers was remarkable. Everything that was possible on a printing press had a direct parallel in Apple’s QuickDraw system.

[@mrflappie6553]

As to the H in ghost... funnily enough, as English adapted the h in ghost, over time the dutch-speaking area dropped the h.

[@NewAge374]

Dat is best geestig inderdaad

[@glennchartrand5411]

There were several letters dropped from the English Alphabet to bring it in line with the German Aphabet (Because the English Royal Family is actually German) Those missing letters were replaced by pairs of German letters Thorn " þ " and Eth " Ð "were replaced by "th" Yogh " ȝ " was replace by "gh" Wynn " ƿ "was replaced by "uu" , which eventually became "w" Ash " æ " became "ai" Ethel " œ " became "oi" And thats why we have a weird pairings of letters in English Other languages did similar pairings to replace letters unique to their alphabets which is how we wound up with other pairings like "ph" , "kn" and "ng"

[@glennchartrand5411]

So if we hadnt dropped those letters "Thigh" would be spelled "þiȝ"

[@olivergobrrr2935]

​@@glennchartrand5411 just a fancy "die" lmao

[@rikmoran3963]

@@glennchartrand5411 I'm not an expert, but according to online resources most of these changed around the 14th century. The Royal Family didn't have German ties until the 18th, which tends to disprove your statement.

[@EricDavidRocks]

In middle school in Greenwich, Connecticut, I took print shop (where most schools offered wood shop, metal shop, auto shop, etc.). I've been fascinated with all things printing ever since. Thanks for the intro to a new KZbinr that I will follow! (Now I live in California, and love to share that Gutenberg's printing press was based on the wine press. Cheers!)

[@bobcosgrove3235]

I took print shop in high school and 45 years later I retired from the Providence Journal as a pressman.

[@Ice_Karma]

Don't worry about "font" vs "typeface". Only us type nerds know you're wrong, and everybody else is wrong, in the same way, too. That ship sailed long ago! 🤣

[@MattMcIrvin]

Any distinction that depends on whether you're referring to a specific size only makes sense in a metal-type world. (Unless you're doing optical scaling, and unless you're Donald Knuth you're probably not.)

[@bernard2735]

1450 Johannes Gutenberg - “Look at this printing press that I invented” Printing Press - “You’re out of magenta”

[@lizoliver3021]

this is a very good joke

[@pierreabbat6157]

How could the printing press know in 1450 that he's out of magenta, which didn't happen till 1859?

[@bernard2735]

@@pierreabbat6157 😅

[@Leberteich]

Letter K was frequent in Kymraeg, but the first Welsh bible was printed in England. English does not often use K, and they didn't have enough off them for the Welsh bible. So they used C instead. Hence the frequent c / missing k in modern Welsh. In the closely related Kernowek, the k survived.

[@DieFlabbergast]

This sounds incorrect. Both the Welsh and the Old English languages got their alphabet from Latin, where the letter "k" is used only to represent Greek words. Modern Welsh "c" is used in exactly the same way that the letter was used in Latin. i.e. to represent the "k" sound, whereas in English it also represents the "s" sound, due to French influence. I suspect that Cornish took the letter "k" from Greek much later in history, after the reading of Greek classics became more widespread. The Ancient Greek language was virtually unknown in Western Europe except to a handful of scholars until the Renaissance. As support for this argument, I append a section from the Wikipedia article on Old Welsh. You can see that the letter "c" is extensively used "A text in Latin and Old Welsh in the Lichfield Gospels called the "Surrexit Memorandum" is thought to have been written in the early 8th century but may be a copy of a text from the 6th or 7th centuries.[5][6] Surrexit Memorandum Text Words in bold are Latin, not Old Welsh. *surexit* tutbulc *filius* liuit ha *gener* tutri dierchi tir telih haioid ilau elcu *filius* gelhig haluidt iuguret amgucant pel amtanndi ho diued diprotant *gener* tutri o guir imguodant ir degion guragon tagc rodesit elcu guetig *equs tres uache, tres uache* nouidligi namin ir ni be cas igridu dimedichat guetig hit did braut grefiat guetig nis minn tutbulc hai cenetl in ois oisau"

[@tvuser9529]

Though English mysteriously often uses K silently: know, knee, knight, knead, knock...

[@taimunozhan]

@@DieFlabbergast That is true for Old Welsh, but many of those C where changed into K in Middle Welsh, particularly before front vowels (E, I, Y) where speakers of other languages would have expected a soft C pronunciation. By the time the printing press arrived in Wales, K was indeed the most common representation of the /k/ sound in the language. before they changed it back to C (possibly without being aware that it had been used in Welsh before) due to the technical limitation as mentioned by @Leberteich. Cornish usage of K is indeed a holdover of pre-printing Middle Welsh usage.

[@b0thers0me]

See: The Truth by Terry Pratchett for innumerable printer jokes/puns/names.

[@Wildcard71]

Are the numbers out of sorts?

[@Tommiart]

Indeed the Truth shall make ye fret.

[@marymactavish]

And then see everything else by Terry Pratchett for all other good things in the world.

[@Sal-iw8zg]

I had a moment a couple of minutes into this video where I suddenly realised the printing press had in fact been invented by humans in real life.

[@mquietsch6736]

*stop the press!* 😂

[@RadekLazok]

Why did vouel schiften happen? Bi þe wey, Ich speke in middel englisc, Yif thou knewest not Thou probabily understoodest not, So I wil speke in olde englisc: Hwæt forþon gewearð þæt stemmewyrd? Þurh þæt weg, Ic sprece on eald Englisc, gif þu ne wiste. Þu wēnæst ne understandan, swā ic wīll spæcan on frōde-germanisc: Hwi jefō geuþo wargaþ? Bi þem weg, ik spreka in proto-germanisk, gif þu na witō. Þu mikil witaþ nai, swala ek sprekja in proto-indo-europeisk: Kwe h1e h1ewor siphtom? Tēl, h1e ghéyom in prh2tós-h1eke-européyō, si h1ēn ne wōdi Editen: Yea! Ich had oonly twyce that moche likes, thankes! Ædittan: Eala! Ic hæfde ánlice twiga þæt micel licans, þancas! Edita: Ja! Ik hæfde ānig þa twā mægslīcas, þances! Wéktus: H1éy! Mēghh2 wéy koís ghelh1om ágha, dōktus! Secounde editen: Ich am the fifte most likëd coment! No way! Þa twēoþe ædittan: Ic eom þæt fifðe mæst līcende gecæm! Nā wēg! Tweinde wita: Ic eom þæt fifta mæst likede cweð! Nænig weg! Twiþa forlætan: Ic eom þa fifta læstlic cōment! Nā wiþ! Twaþa edita: Ik biþa fīf mæst likrandi gæsta! Naiwa waiga! Néwos wekwom: êgmos esti sppénkwe likrós komment! Nău wegwō! Dúghmós réghe: Eím ghjerju pénkjē gwherh1o kéte! Næi wágjo! (Proto-indo-european-semitic its 90% non-existing language)

[@radio_marco]

At the beginning my brain was so confused, I tried to read english and german at the same time.

[@stevetournay6103]

Wow...or however one spelled "wow" in Old English or PIE...

[@tideghost]

You could really implement ġ for differentiating from g (“get”), ċ from c (“cat”), and sċ from sc (“scathe”). So ic should be iċ.

[@RadekLazok]

@@stevetournay6103 eald englisc - wōw, prh2tós-h1eke-européyō - wóiw

[@RadekLazok]

@@radio_marco Yea, the middel englisc is lik a litel bit german englisc

[@mquietsch6736]

This decoupling of spelling and pronunciation is unique among all languages I have had contact with so far. Every country has had its printing press revolution. All of them, with the sole exception of the British isles, have managed to keep spelling consistent with pronunciation. My own language, German, also had (and has) plenty of dialects that were (and are) pretty un-intelligible to speakers of other dialects. Yet we have managed to consolidate a written language where spelling reflects pronunciation pretty well. As a matter of fact, I've always marvelled at how English speakers don't even *think* spelling ought to reflect pronunciation in some vague sense. People randomly start pronouncing "drawing" as "draw-ring" and if enough people do it it suddenly becomes the new legitimate pronunciation. "Mischievous" is another example. People pronounce it as "mischeevious" and never mind there's no third "i" in the word, let's simply define the pronunciation as correct. There's a video by Geoffrey Lindsey really seriously discussing how these pronunciations ought to be recognised as correct ones simply based on how many people mis-pronounce the words! For me, as a German, this is simply mind-boggling.

[@marcusaureliusf]

Yeah I agree that that level of mismatch between spelling and pronunciation shouldn't become the norm in dictionaries. Luckily I think I've seen mischievious spelled like that quite often so I guess people are not that crazy to think that -vous can be pronounced as -vious so they do add the third "i" to their spelling.

[@mquietsch6736]

@@marcusaureliusf ... and Geoffrey Lindsey has pointed out in his video that the mis-spelling "mischievious" is actually pretty old and, therefore, respectable 🙂

[@berlinorientexpress4818]

What is so mind-boggling about it? This is how language works, enough people "mispronounce" a word and if it is done collectively, it becomes the new standart. The "correct" way, as e.g. defined by spelling, is just a way some group of people with the power to do so standardized and formalized. But is was always diverse, always changing. An interesting fact is how the widespread ability to read and write actually slowed down language change, at least for languages where pronounciation is consistent with writing. I agree that English spelling is a mess, being such a widespread language I wonder however who would have the authority to reform the spelling for all users, but someone should try.

[@igorbednarski8048]

"all of them (...) managed to keep the spelling consistent with pronunciation" uhm, have you ever seen French? A typical French word written down is like creouxaisountaseoue, but when pronounced it's just a singular vowel

[@mquietsch6736]

@ That's not quite true. Of course there are combinations like "eaux" being pronounced like "o" or "oeufs" like "ö", but there are rules, and these rules apply. When you see a French word in writing, and you know whether it is a noun or a verb, you can pronounce it. In English there are only heuristics. That famous English sentence about "not thought through thoroughly" is not possible in French. Your example, assuming it were a genuine French word, would be pronounced like "kreuksäsuntaseu" (where I have denoted "e" somewhat as in "get", "u" as in "put", "ä" as in "land", "a" as the "u" in "under"), and there's no doubt about it.

[@lisathaviu1154]

Thank you for including a section on printing in your video. As an artist who studied printmaking and who is just as indebted to Gutenberg, I loved hearing about the origins of some of the phrases used every day. I never thought about the many obscure terms I knew from printmaking until I lived in Peru and was asked to teach someone printmaking terms in English so she could go study in New York. She taught me as much Spanish as I taught her English so it was a great exchange.

[@Jnlafargue]

in french, "événement" sounds more like "évènement" but typographs decided they had not enough "è" and chose the actual spelling of the word... Also, typewriters available in France (and german or american character sets for composing machines) had no accents on capital letters... Therefore, a lot of people genuinly think that it's an error do put an accent on a capital letter... Computers helped us to retreive accents... I guess there is other examples of the way technology changed french...

[@fixedfunshow]

Hey in Spanish the same has happened. The main academy of Spanish has come up and said capital letters should have the marks.

[@gabor6259]

I noticed you misspelled the word 'retrieve'. A good way to remember when it's e before i and when it's not, is to look at the gerund. If the gerund ends with -eption, then it's e before i, otherwise it's i before e. Receive - reception, deceive - deception BUT believe - belief, achieve - achievement.

[@Jnlafargue]

@@gabor6259 sorry, I don't really speak english, I just have old memories of school; fourty years ago.

[@gabor6259]

@@Jnlafargue You don't have to be sorry, I just wanted to help.

[@williamduncan7401]

@@gabor6259 I’m a bit confused. Do you mean nominalisation? But then retrieve-retrieval and with gerund retrieve-retrieving (still unclear to me). What about seize-seizure?

[@Leberteich]

2:32 You miss the first revolution that was fuelled by the printing press: Reformation.

[@bojokowski]

I’m so glad I live in America where you don’t have to chose between Jesus and the guillotine

[@crusaderACR]

How is the Reformation relevant?

[@crusaderACR]

@@Cerdinok Ok I got it. You mean to say the printing press facilitated the spread of Protestantism. That's at best a tangential topic but alright. I don't think it was by the spread of Scripture itself, but that the ideas could travel quicker and farther. Scripture was already readily available to anyone that could read in every major country and translated in local languages long before the Reformation. The conversions of the people (mostly illiterate) largely followed that of their leaders, which you can see in Luther's address to the German nobility, and how after the dust settled you got a 95% Protestant nation on one side, and a 95% Catholic nation right across the border. Some countries were rather mixed, but the conversions were strongly regional even there, as it followed instead the conversion of local nobility. In no case was it a grassroots sort of thing. The debates mostly went over people's heads, and whoever was educated enough to follow them was likely college educated and therefore already had access to a bible in their college library. The access to Greek sources changed nothing of the debates, the Vulgate had its imperfections but nothing that would affect Christian doctrine. The Protestant case going by Scripture alone wasn't easily seen (to say the least), seen as how the Reformers couldn't agree on anything except that they should start with Scripture alone and (starting with John Calvin) they soon started burning each other at the stake. The "Faith Alone" stuff was more of an umbrella, I'm now convinced, as the specific meaning behind it varied wildly between branches. To Luther and then the Lutherans, that saving faith was granted at baptism, as a child, then kept through life or perhaps lost by apostasy. If the well educated Reformers couldn't settle on much if anything at all, how could a farmer in rural Brandenburg take sides? The part about the Church Fathers is irrelevant as they were certainly not Protestant at all. Early Protestants tried an angle of going back to Augustine's church, but the idea was swiftly discarded. Calvin was very well aware none of his predecessors taught what he taught. Luther not so much, but he did have to concede that the idea Augustine had of the Church was alien to what he was building.

[@aramisortsbottcher8201]

​@@crusaderACRhad a huge impact on Europe and the european colonies? Major wars were fought, rebellions occured, people migrated. Many lifes (and deaths...) were influenced by it.

[@embreis2257]

@@crusaderACR maybe read a good book about it. 😉

[@robert48719]

Caxton also played a big part in how we name things...does anyone know the story of ayren and eggs? Where he had to which word shall be used and to this day we call them eggs

[@mediocreman6323]

Interesting. In German, eggs are actually called “eier”, which sounds almost exactly like “ayren”.

[@robert48719]

@@mediocreman6323 ich weiß. Da habe ich auch zuerst dran gedacht 😁

[@fixedfunshow]

In Spanish is Huevo (Egg): Ovo (Latin) Uevo/Vevo Hvevo Huevo The H was added to stop confusion with the V and U but we never removed the H after they realized using the V as an U was stupid (unlike English). In Portuguese they were more kind: Ovo (Latin) Ovo Though we still use "ovo" in Spanish like in the word "ovo-lácteo".

[@aramisortsbottcher8201]

​@@fixedfunshow oh, I always wondered where the h came from. Thanks for explaining :)

[@guspolly]

“Ey” derived from Old English and ultimately from Proto West Germanic, whereas “egg” was a Norse/Viking import. The two words coexisted in different parts of England until Caxton, who I guess must have been from a place where “egg” had more currency.

[@hassegreiner9675]

Danish: hvo/hvem, hvad, hvor, hvilke, hvis, hval, hvorfor, ... correspond to English: who/whom, what, where, which, whose, whale, why - and like in English, the h's are silent. In Icelandic, however, hv are pronounced kv, which may also have been the case in Old Norse and which 'justifices' the h's as drivers of the kv's.

[@kaymarrand9970]

Oh lord, you could make an entire video about Danish spelling. This is probably the least offensive vestige of an older pronunciation.

[@bountyjedi]

In some Norwegian dialects you get the hv being kv etc. I believe in Nynorsk spells it kvem, kva, kvor, etc. Myself, I'm Swedish. We did away with the h's in these words. Although realizing that English wh was actually hw was an eye opener as I'm somewhat familiar with our neighbor languages

[@Steinegal]

@@bountyjedisame for me in Norwegian, my first thought was that is what we do with Hva, Hvor, Hvem and Hvorfor although in my dialect and what I usually write in non formal messages it is Ka, Kor, Kem and Koffør.

[@bernard2735]

Linus is a real ‘font’ of knowledge.

[@Li.Siyuan]

Fount, not font. Also Fountain.

[@bernard2735]

@@Li.Siyuan it was a pun - he knows a lot about fonts 🙃

[@vdis]

If anything, I watch these vids for their puns. _What a pickle_ 😂

[@dustintroxel6044]

Came here to say that. Rob's face at 8:58 is priceless. 🥒

[@Nooben2550]

whenever you upload a video i just drop whatever im doing and watch the video right away, you made me so interested in language, letters and words, i even started to learn how to write in ancient runes thanks to your last video! love your videos, keep up the amazing work rob!

[@TheYorkRose]

"You can't catch malware from a pamphlet" - no but you could catch worse viruses 👀🤐

[@clubdwaekki3579]

I had the same thought eeeek

[@allangibson8494]

You can catch Anthrax from vellum…

[@jenniferbeardtrusty1671]

My dad was a stereotyper for our local paper up until the process became obsolete in the early 70s. Each Labor Day, the union had a day of celebration at a park. I have fond memories of going to the Stereotyper's Picnic where there were families from all the newspaper workers in central Indiana. Every once on a while, I got to go watch the process of the paper being made. The finished stereotype was a light khaki colored curved piece that would fit on a large cylinder in the press room where the papers were printed and took a trip on rollers around the ceiling so the ink could dry. I loved it! And, in typing this, I can hear the loud clanking, and smell the paper and ink that permeated the air. ❤ Thanks for this trip down memory lane!

[@veramentestanco]

I'm loving this! I've lived in the UK for nearly 25 years and consider English my other first language - Italian being my first first language, so to speak. And I love following your channel as if gives me access to those "behind the scenes" nuggets of knowledge about the English language that I do not have! Keep up with the excellent work! ❤

[@MrTheGadfly]

So, then is "cliché" an onomatopoeia for a word that no longer means the thing associated with the sound? I wonder how many of those sorts of words exist out there.

[@scaper8]

​@@CerdinokPlenty of þings still "click," so I don't þink that one counts as an "orphaned" onomatopoeia.

[@gcewing]

We still know the onomatopoeic meaning of "click", so we understand that other uses of it are metaphorical. But we don't associate "cliché" with a sound any more. Or maybe French people do, but English speakers don't.

[@MrTheGadfly]

@@scaper8 I love that term - "Orphaned onomatopoeia"

[@Pepesmall]

He said it was for the squelching sounds but I'm pretty sure it was for the sound of metal sliding together or something.

[@Pfhorrest]

At 18:10 Rob subtitles the lower case or miniscule letters “baby letters?” I suggest we call them “pedal letters” to pair with the “capital letters” that are majuscule or upper case. ("Pedal" meaning of the feet, as "capital" means of the head.)

[@MrFagedaboudit]

I simply love this channel. As a native speaker of 7 languages, I only learned English when I moved to the US at age 9, and have always been fascinated by the peculiarities and discrepancies in the written and spoken tongue of it. Thank you so much for your well-presented and highly informative insights as to the origins of this most influential and universal language. As a teacher of language, I've found that written English is the most difficult of all for my students, and relate your wonderful insights here in classes as a valuable and entertaining aid. Thank you so very much!

[@laurencefraser]

English orthography is pretty far up the list when it comes to difficult writing systems to learn, fairly close to Japanese, though beaten out by a few languages in southern Asia that are somehow substantially worse.

[@MrFagedaboudit]

@jaspermcjasper3672 Thank you. I'll get back to you on this in another time zone later on. It's not that uncommon amongst people my age (I'm a great-grandpa here) or my background (kids who grew up in DP camps in Europe after the war). It is a worthwhile tale, though, and helpful in its mechanisms in aiding young English speakers in particular in the leaning of new languages. Stay tuned, and I'll get back with more.

[@penelope8980]

Another fun and informative video! I thought from the beginning you would include the shorthand words people use in texting (the thumb in the thumbnail was my clue). I enjoyed meeting Linus Boman and will look him up. It's amazing to hear you and Linus speak so precisely. I wish we Americans had been taught to speak so clearly.

[@sabikikasuko6636]

21:00 Fun fact, in graphic design we DO have distinct words for those two. We have logotype, isotype, isologo and imagotype. A logotype is an exlcusively typographical identity. Things like the SAMSUNG logo, the ROLEX text, Google, etc. Apple's apple is an *isotype*, which is an exclusively iconographic identity. Things like Apple's apple, Microsoft's quadracolor window, Facebook's f, Twitter's bird, Louis Vuitton's (In my personal, subjective opinion horrid) LV, all of those are isotypes. When you put both of them together, such as NBC with its peacock, PUMA with its jumping feline, Adidas with its mountains, Pepsi with its circle in all of its inceptions frim 2006 until 2023, or Lacoste with its croc, that's an imagotype. Now, however, there's a problem and that is, what if an icon is partially made from typography? Well, if you're part of the Burger Kings, Pizza Huts and Lay's of the world, whose iconographic logo has a typographic element that you can't just take off willy nilly, you have an isologo in your hands!

[@primaler]

What do you mean, "there were just a few thousand books in the world" in the middle of the 15th century? A few hundred thousand survive from Europe alone, many more existed back then

[@Sammysapphira]

He's full of crap.

[@pianissimo5951]

12:47 i've never heard anyone call him johnny g. that's hilarious

[@RaymondHng]

Like calling Giuseppe Verdi "Joe Green".

[@timothystrain8155]

That's his hip-hop name.

[@smithpauld1501]

Somewhere in this mess I call a desk, I have a “slug” of cast type bearing my name. It came from a 1973 journalism school field trip to a publisher that still used “hot type” and linotype machines to set their type for printing. The compositing room smelled of melting type metal. I won’t bore you with the technical details but I found it fascinating.

[@reginat595]

Thanks for another fun video Rob! Always eye-opening to find out where our everyday expressions come from. Out of sorts; it's funny how we accept these expressions without thinking where they came from. But also satisfying to find out!

[@lesliealonso8286]

Hello Rob, I really do thank you and your guests for all the videos you release on KZbin. They are always so interesting. I was taught that Dutch printers were involved too in the English words spelling because they were paid by the letter and hence some of them were scattered in English vocabulary. Kind regards Leslie from France 😊

[@claudialandgraf4450]

Hi, just a reminder before Gutenberg was printing common too. They carved the pages out of wood (but making a mistake and you had to start all over again and if the author wanted a last minute change ..- not very efficent). But if you had a good wooden plate to print with it lasted a while. So the are f.e. about 12 bible translation prints before Marthin Luther and Gutenberg in German/y. But they made it more expensive buy hand illustrating afterwards. It was an actual job just to put only red colour as emphasis on capital letters at the beginning of a page. They wanted it as good as the hand written stuff despite it was produced on a lower cost and faster my carved plates.

[@ericbarlow6772]

Well, the word manuscript does roughly translate to hand writing from Latin.

[@williamduncan7401]

comes from manuscriptus: manu "by hand" + scriptus "written" (from scribere) so it's exactly that

[@semperrabbit05]

I've been told by multiple people that "mind your p's and q's" stemmed from bartenders telling people to not get too drunk by minding their Pints and Quarts... I guess that was wildly incorrect lol

[@n20games52]

Super entertaining and informative video. You continually make the history of language, both written and spoken, fun and enthralling. I think naming one thing as the most important invention is tough to do because I think there is a "most important" invention in a variety of categories, like language/culture (printing press), engineering (the wheel maybe) or medicine (penicillin possibly), technology (computer chips) and etc. Some could even argue that it's beer - why else would almost every culture have invented their own version of it? Again, great video and can't wait for more.

[@alicestarkwing]

Perfect timing, Rob! I've just started studying for my bachelor's in book printing & publishing and learning about its history :)

[@hairy-one]

I remember print shop ("Graphic Arts") in 1960s high school. An entire set of one typeface was a font, and it was kept in a Job Case for lowercase, and a Cap case for 'drumroll' caps. Composing (in a device called a 'composition stick') left to right and inverted. Mind yer 'p's and 'q's.

[@garryferrington811]

As a person who read the comic strip "Peanuts" since a child, I'm highly gratified to discover that there really is someone named "Linus."

[@robertfitzjohn4755]

I can immediately think of Linus Pauling the famous scientist, and Linus Torvalds the software engineer after whom Linux is named.

[@angelbear_og]

There's also Linus from Linus Tech Tips as another contemporary example.

[@blupunk01]

When I was growing up we had a neighbor named Linus who unsurprisingly had over the years received gifts of seemingly everything ever made of the Peanuts character. He was born in the 1940s which according to name websites was the last decade where it appeared in the TOP 1000 boys' names in the United States (and even then only barely).

[@tselengbotlhole750]

🤣🤣🤣 I have a friend with the same name

[@trien30]

Linus from Peanuts comic strip was Lucy's brother. Linus Torvalds (Linux, Minix, attended University of Helsinki), Linus Sebastian (computer guy based in Vancouver) and Linus Boman (knew him from Chinese food/chop suey font video on KZbin.)

[@ongunkanat]

By the way, the folder "Fonts" would be the correct term if one considers what was being stored in those folders before "true-type" format became a thing. Nowadays the typefaces in your computer like Arial are stored as mathematical formulas of all proportions and inter-letter relationships. Back then (until 90s) programmers had to store individual hard-coded images of each letter and its specific size on the computer so they were literal fonts at a specific point size.

[@tconiam]

I remember having to memorize the "California job case" layout in junior high in the printing class. It was tedious work to do, but satisfying when it all printed out cleanly!

[@Mladjasmilic]

After Serbia liberated from the Turks, there were almost no literate people, but monks in monasteries. And they used 1000 year old language - old church slavonic. Litterate Serbs living in Habsburg empire used Slavic-Serbian for writing official documents, which was more similar to Russian than Serbian. So Serbian reformist Vuk Stefanović Karadžić, who used to be illiterate sheppard, rewrote Serbian Alfabet, so every letter matches one sound from the spoken languages almost exactly (very rare sounds like dz or ng did not have separate letter). So illiterate people can learn how to read and write in no time. He made a collection of folk songs and a dictionary. And he was ridiculed for writing down every word, including the swear words.

[@radicallyrethinkingrailwaysina]

I wonder how the world might look with a single official Slavic language of which all the modern ones are dialects. Potentially we could have a single Romance (modernised Latin) single Germanic and single Celtic and others while we are here.

[@Mladjasmilic]

@@radicallyrethinkingrailwaysina For Slavs, that language exists - Mežduslovjanski (interslavic). While it is a constructed language, I can understand it very well.

[@DK-pl1wz]

Korean and Turkish are also phonetic languages like Serbian/Croatian/ Montenegrin…

[@crbgo9854]

English being a lingua franca is probably why reform should happen. But i cant help but think that is also why it hasn't happened.

[@Ãdré-ps8xp]

Exatamente o que penso

[@RaymondHng]

Unlike other languages, there is no international body that regulates use of the English language.

[@Ãdré-ps8xp]

​@@RaymondHngé hora de exigirmos! a língua inglesa é importante demais pra deixarmos abandonada 😢

[@RaymondHng]

@@Ãdré-ps8xp The lack of centralized language regulation in English, compared to languages like French (regulated by the Académie Française) or Spanish (regulated by the Real Academia Española) or Portuguese (regulated by Academia das Ciências de Lisboa in Portugal, Academia Brasileira de Letras in Brazil, and Academia Galega da Língua Portuguesa in Galicia), has actually contributed to its widespread popularity and adaptability for several reasons: English is highly flexible and adaptable, allowing it to evolve quickly in response to cultural, technological, and societal changes. With no strict language authority dictating its form, English easily incorporates words and phrases from other languages and evolves to fit modern needs. This has made English more relatable and easier for different cultures to adopt and modify according to their own context. Because there is no formal governing body enforcing rigid linguistic rules, English is open to adopting words from other languages. This acceptance of loanwords, new slang, and diverse dialects makes it easier for non-native speakers to integrate their own linguistic elements into English, making it more accessible to a global population. For example, words like karaoke (Japanese), café (French), bungalow (Hindi), and taco (Spanish) are widely used in English today, showcasing how the language can readily absorb foreign terms. Without a language regulator enforcing a standardized version of English, different countries and regions have developed their own dialects and varieties of English (e.g., American English, British English, Australian English, Indian English, etc.). This decentralization allows the language to reflect local cultural contexts, while still maintaining enough core similarities to be mutually intelligible. The diversity of these regional dialects gives people around the world a sense of ownership over their version of English, making it easier for the language to spread without the pressure of adhering to a "pure" or "correct" form. The lack of regulation also fosters innovation in vocabulary and expression. New terms can quickly emerge from tech, business, pop culture, and even social media without waiting for approval from a regulatory body. For instance, terms like selfie, hashtag, and googling have entered common usage within a short period, driven by popular demand and trends rather than formal linguistic approval. This encourages a dynamic and living language, where people feel empowered to invent new words or usages without worrying about breaking rules. Because English lacks a centralized regulatory body, there is no global "correct" way to speak or write it, allowing for a variety of registers (formal, informal) and simplifications, which makes it easier to use as a global lingua franca. This flexibility means that English can adapt to different levels of proficiency among speakers, accommodating both native speakers and non-native speakers alike. In the digital age, where language evolves rapidly through memes, social media, and online communities, the lack of regulation in English allows it to keep pace with technological and cultural shifts. No governing body is trying to slow or standardize its usage, meaning that English remains the dominant language in online communication and international media. English's development is driven by the people who use it rather than by top-down enforcement. This democratic nature of language change allows for organic growth based on how people actually speak and interact, rather than being held back by institutional conservatism. This has made English highly adaptable and inclusive, leading to its widespread use and popularity. In summary, the absence of rigid language regulation allows English to evolve organically, adapt to different cultures, and serve as an accessible and flexible means of communication for people worldwide. This open, dynamic quality has been a significant factor in its global success.

[@allangibson8494]

The problem is which “English”? Indian English? American English? Scottish English? English English? Australian English? They all have different vocabularies and pronunciations.

[@bud-yo]

15:50 #bringbackthorn

[@computerjantje]

Thank you very much. Your videos are always a joy too watch and I learn so much. Love the English language. Greetings from The Netherlands.

[@dipi71]

One of the best videos about the printing press, typesetting and their influence on the English language I've ever watched. Cheers, Rob! Thanks also to Linus Bowman - I've enjoyed many of his excellent videos as well.

[@sethpackard8223]

One of my longstanding pet-peeves is the malappropic morph of 'bold (type)face' into 'bald face', as in bald-faced lie. IMHO it makes better sense to think of an outrageous falsehood uttered 'en voz alta' or printed loudly as particularly egregious (as opposed to a 'naked' or unvarnished untruth...)

[@TheGreatAtario]

It's the other way around. People didn't start saying "bold faced lie" till the final quarter of the 20th century, but had been saying "bald faced lie" since around the halfway mark. Ref: Merriam-Webster article titled _Is That Lie 'Bald-faced' or 'Bold-faced'?_

[@jamesrivettcarnac]

Seriously: bring back thorn

[@dpcnreactions7062]

You should include this gentlemen in your next show with Jess. I think it would be interesting.

[@g0d5m15t4k3]

I absolutely love this collaboration. You are both great.

[@singlesideman]

Thank you so much for having someone on who knows the difference between a typeface and a font. It's one of the most profoundly irritating common mistakes in the world. It drives me effing nuts. It's like people using the word 'hits' instead of 'views' for websites. It's just the wrong word, and it's incredibly irritating.

[@MHParkison]

Rob, I highly recommend taking a trip from Berlin down to the Gutenberg Museum in Mainz. Gutenberg was not the first to develop a movable type system but his invention of his press was certainly the most important to the dissemination of the written word - even English in all of its messiness!

[@cranfieldmcfierson393]

he states that in 1:37.

[@hoangkimviet8545]

Me when watching this video: "So should I blame Germans or Chinese for this mess?"

[@fritjofrocker5047]

havent watched it yet, but my guess is that its the frenchs fault!

[@nosotrosloslobosestamosreg4115]

​@@fritjofrocker5047not that wrong for an assumption though.

[@scaper8]

Don't forget the Dutch! They've got a hand in this too, it seems.

[@AthanasiosJapan]

Actually, Chinese is written with an ideographic script, which represent ideas and not sounds. For this reason, even if pronunciation changes, there is no need to change the spelling. The future of English is to adopt an ideographic script!

[@R4iko]

​@@AthanasiosJapanthat's a step backwards in our communication evolution. Who wants to learn 50 thousands pictograms/ideogram when you can write your thoughts and ideas with 20-40 letters? The next step is making the letters match their sounds all the time, so that anyone can write it correctly when hearing it.

[@manoz6194]

There I was thinking the Bible would be the first book printed in English

[@jimb9063]

Weather forecast?

[@jovetj]

The Bible was the first book ever printed on the printing press (though, not in English). I am a bit surprised Rob did not mention that.

[@alanprior7650]

William Tyndall I think. Burned as a heretic because he took away the Catholic power over the masses. English martyr.

[@OliverJazzz]

Well, it would've been, had English been the liturgical language at the time. In many protestant countries in Europe Bible indeed was the first book printed in the native language.

[@embreis2257]

@@OliverJazzz Martin Luther nailed his thesis on the church door roughly 70yrs after Gutenberg started his printing press. almost 70yrs where all versions of the Bible were probably in Latin as the Catholic church was opposed to celebrating mass in any other language. do you think they would have allowed printing the Bible in any other language?

[@Gruntle]

Great video. Well researched and entertainingly assembled.

[@olegsmolsky]

Loved the historical and etymological details. Thanks a lot!

[@LucumLuftra]

I'm glad you addressed the previous usages of printing prior to Gutenberg

[@petebeatminister]

As usual, a highly interesting video, thank you! My first thought when I read the video's title went into a completely different direction. And that has to do with a different kind of "printing press" - the actual newspaper printing press. Its something I have been trying (and failed) to understand during the 34 years I learned English in the British Army: Why are headlines in british newspapers (but now also in some digital news outlets, like the BBC) so awkwardly phrased, in a way nobody speaks in daily life? And which is sometimes even difficult to understand. May be you can make a video that enlightens me - and may be others who have the same problem, too - about this matter. Or dont british people notice this at all? The world of languages is full of miracles...

[@Brian3989]

Headlines are written to catch your attention using the editorial quirks of the writer/editor.

[@petebeatminister]

@@Brian3989 Well, probably... But why in a way of "What the heck does that mean?" And when and why was it introduced, and by whom?

[@laurencefraser]

@@Brian3989 And yet in many ways the difference between them and regular grammar is quite consistent.

[@AtomicRodriguez]

The “Hwa” sound could and should honestly be revived as a usable sound in new words

[@SobriquetS]

That must be more a British pronunciation. I don't know anybody who does the H sound before the W in the states.

[@SongOfStorms411]

Hwy hwat a hwacky idea!

[@InfiniteDeckhand]

I mean, it kinda is already. Several English and Scottish dialects do pronounce the ''wh'' as ''hw''. Only gotta change the spelling.

[@HLR4th]

Great inspiration for a Catherine Tate character!

[@ElMoppo1]

@@SobriquetS Hwat about Hank Hill?

[@sailorjohnbmc]

I’m a word nerd (thanks Rob) and a sailor. In all of these colorful expressions and different pronunciations I see the influence of poor (south east?) London cheap labor and the Cotney dialect. Please do a segment on how this influence turned words like For Castle into Focsle.

[@nmociahfgow]

I've just found you channel and I want to say I'm enjoying how entertaining you are! thanks Rob!

[@JosuaKrause]

the folder is called fonts because it really is the fonts. the files store information about how to print a typeface normal, bold, italic, 10pt, 16pt, 48pt, etc. very often for fonts characters can be reused but for example for small sizes (e.g., 8pt) you have a different set of characters because it would look horrible to just scale the larger glyphs down. and obviously for bold or italic you do need different glyphs altogether

[@kaymarrand9970]

@@jaspermcjasper3672 Yes, if you look at your Fonts collection Bold and Italic are usually separate font files. In fact Italic variants commonly use a Latin alpha for small a when the regular uses a double-decker style for the letter, so it's more than just tilt/letter thickness. When those files are not available for a typeface the typesetting software might be able to simulate it instead by altering the shapes of the glyphs in the regular font on the fly.

[@geralddemeulemeester4961]

The Flemish dropped de H and write "geest" ! 😂

[@ilzetzouves3398]

Did the Flemmish word for gherkin have an "h" in it once upon a time? In Afrikaans it's "agurkie" - g is pronounced the same as it would be in Dutch

[@geralddemeulemeester4961]

@@ilzetzouves3398 it is augurk in Dutch.

[@bigaspidistra]

Gherkin is a borrowing in English from 17th century Dutch. The first written example of the word is in a diary entry of Samuel Pypys. Spelling it as gerkin is an obsolete variant.

[@ilzetzouves3398]

@@bigaspidistra that's interesting! Thanks for sharing 🙂

[@marlenestewart7442]

"But it sounds way worse." Very comforting.

[@FreakyRufus]

I’ve been listening to (old) episodes of the podcast The History of the English Language, and was just listening to him talk about Caxton, and how he decided on which dialect to use for his books. When I saw the title of this video, I immediately suspected that the printing press was your culprit.

[@EdsEvilTwin]

Awesome video. Rob, probably the smoothest segue in the creation of segues.....

[@CriticalEatsJapan]

Nice. Linus does have an entertaining channel👍

[@removechan10298]

so cliché started as an onomatopiea, i wonder if there are any cryptonomatopoeia hiding in English.

[@scaper8]

​@@CerdinokÞat would be a great future video!

[@removechan10298]

@@Cerdinok yeah that's what I am suggesting, I bet someone has the research. Also the fun etymologies of campanophile and glossy and many others, one is a bilateral-loan-word (another video) and the other is crazy fun too (how different aspects move forward)

[@niceguy191]

12:03 My son is also named Boat

[@MrSquark]

I see what you did there 😂

[@tyruslawhorn]

This guy gets it.

[@WarDog793]

Thanks, Rob and LInus! This explains a lot.

[@Cre-Art]

My husband was so fascinated by your videos that he sent me to your channel. He knew I'd like it. He was right. It took 10 seconds and I subscribed. Very informative-and entertaining. :)

[@SeptemberMeadows]

The internet is doing it again. I was just telling some online friends that censorship in our chat, is forcing us to change the english we use grammatically and in spelling. It's funny sometimes but mostly it 'sukks'.

[@ACH77]

Totally agree, I've been ceed myself.

[@Skanking-Corpse]

That's actually a really interesting point. Unfortunately it doesn't do the job of streamlining the language or making it easier to spell.

But why only English? Why did it not break the spelling of all the other languages?

[@garak55]

Because, as the Romans once said, you can bring civilization to Britain but you can't bring Britain to civilization.

[@raskalthepup]

That is a really good question.

[@oh...hi.]

Only English had a great vowel shift at the time of the invention of the press

[@DatOne.Gallia]

Oiseou is pronounced "wa-zo"

[@radicallyrethinkingrailwaysina]

Also mainland Europe went through many iterations of standardising things - weights and measures under Napoleon for example, and bodies like alliance française standardising the language. The idea of a London based royal court telling everyone 'Caxton is wrong, we ate going to write Gost' was never going to happen. Then add the Americans writing their own dictionary and and we are truly lost. Anyway most English spelling reform enthusiasts would rather we went back to thorns and hwats and other things that take the language closer to its Germanic roots.

[@EannaButler]

13:53 “But I just have a question that needs answering”. The English tendency to use the present participle there kinda grates against me. I would always say “But I just have a question that needs to be answered”. Is this form a new thing among English people? Love from Ireland!

[@feynstein1004]

Yeah I think you should speak Irish instead. (I am so sorry. I couldn't resist 😅)

[@EannaButler]

@@feynstein1004 I do! Tá líofacht mhaith agam sa Ghaeilge.. Ach is é Béarla mo theanga dúchais..

[@feynstein1004]

@@EannaButler Ah okay. The only Irish I know is Amhran na Farraige from Song of the Sea 😃

[@EannaButler]

@@feynstein1004 Good stuff! Perfect spelling 👍

[@feynstein1004]

@@EannaButler go raibh maith agat ☺

[@jasonleedham5678]

I always enjoy a Robwords, i like how it highlights the ridiculous nature of English, and those crazy routes to our modern language that make it so interesting. I now live in Wales, and Welsh has rules that 99% of the time just apply, its a phonetic language, and my (limited) understanding of it makes English seem so crazy, and yet so interesting too Cheers Rob

[@johncooley7050]

I found this presentation especially interesting because w-a-a-y back in the day, when I was in middle school, I had to take a half-semester course called "Print Shop" where I became intimately familiar with setting type by hand, type faces, etc. It was there that I learned that "minding one's p's and q's" (deliberate use of lower case) was made more difficult by the fact that the "sorts" for p and q were mirror images of what was to be printed and, as pointed out in the video, were loaded into the composing stick upside down. The rule of thumb I learned for handling b, d, p, and q was to take the extender and imagine it extended the opposite direction (up vs down) and that would tell you what the letter really was. To see what a typesetter sees, write "p" and "q" on a piece of paper and look at the letters upside down in a mirror. The rule of thumb works for positively telling which is which.

[@tbert9739]

is that why q's have a flick on them? to make it easier for printers to differentiate them from P's? or did they always have the flick?

[@duszekanyzratak]

That's an excellent question, would love to know!

[@Wildcard71]

You probably need more bs than qs, so it isn't a good idea.

[@matthewvelazquez2013]

Those flicks are probably called, 'seraphs' as in seraph font.

[@matthewvelazquez2013]

@@Drabkikker oh...

[@henghistbluetooth7882]

So when Stewie in Family Guy pronounces it ‘Cool Hwip’ - he’s actually correct?

[@amicaaranearum]

He deliberately exaggerates the H, but the /hw/ sound is traditional for RP and some southeastern American accents.

[@WGGplant]

Not really. His pronunciation is an exaggeration for how it's supposed to be pronounced. Rob actually explained it wrongly in this video as well. 'wh' is just the voiceless variant of 'w'. There's not really any "h sound" in it. (there probably was in old English though, but thats debatable)

[@adrianbruce2963]

​@@WGGplant- I can definitely say "hwere" (I'm from NW England)

[@WGGplant]

@@adrianbruce2963 Interesting. Im from the south east where the old fashioned pronunciation is common and do it myself. And at least for people down here, the 'h' is not its own separate sound. The 'wh' is the voiceless variant of the 'w' sound. the difference between 'w' and 'wh' is the same as the difference between 'v' and 'f' or 'z' and 's'. theres not an actual aspirated sound before or after the w sound

[@davidsturm7706]

​@@WGGplant demonstrably false. hw is the Germanic evolution of Indo-European /k^w/ by way of /x^w/ to /h^w/. Since those pronouncing it hw aren't starting with the soft glottal stop before w, it's still a reflex of hw.

[@tapunyr8526]

Rob! This has just made my day 😊

[@Gummi1984]

Just discovered your channel, and what a treasure to find! Greetings from a language enthusiast who still uses the Þ/þ and the Ð/ð because we still use them up here in Iceland 😉🇮🇸 We'll look after them for you guys 😁 Það er bókað mál!

[@Ahrosartgaming]

As a graphic designer who works in the printing industry this vid was an absolute delight! I both knew some things and learned of others. Had plenty of good laughs too!

[@benketteridge9150]

I was always told "Ps & Qs" was about Please and thankQous - i.e. be polite.

[@neiloflongbeck5705]

I've also heard it came from minding your pints and quarts. But I've no idea what the true source is.

[@jovetj]

Ignorance is bliss

[@benketteridge9150]

@@jovetj but manners cost nothing.

[@ButzPunk]

That's another possible source. Afaik there's no definitive answer to where it really came from; the printing press idea is one of those often put forward, but there's no firm evidence for it.

[@StamfordBridge]

Caxton behind Becks 🤦‍♂️

[@stevetournay6103]

In 2002...

[@NavnikBHSilver]

As a dyslectic person, this is a grand example of why I take a fundamental issue with human languages collectively, and in this case, English in particular. I may have found myself to be fairly competent in the English language as a result of me being a terminally online dev... but still not a sentence goes by where I don't find a part of me frustrated about the disconnect between pronunciation and writing.

[@michaelrichter9427]

Not all languages are as disconnected from the pronunciation as English writing is. German, for example, is pretty decent in a match between writing and pronunciation with irregularities that are either loan words or well-known irregularities you can learn in an afternoon. And many languages are even worse, on the flip side. (你能从这种写法猜出发音吗？) But what you seem to want is actually literally impossible because pronunciation drifts over time. Slowly, inexorably, the pronunciation of a language changes for a variety of reasons you're not going to be changing anytime soon (where "soon" is defined as "in the next few thousands of years"). What starts off being phonetic writing now will be near-phonetic in a few generations and not-even-slightly-phonetic in a few hundred years. Or do you think Old (or even Middle!) English sounds like modern English (which technically includes Shakespeare, incidentally)?

[@NavnikBHSilver]

@@michaelrichter9427 You are on point, and that's exactly why as I said I take issue with human languages as a whole. I would see language to be as concrete and consistent as math, and I don't believe that will ever happen. The inevitable consequence is not only frustration and confusion for me when it comes to spelling and grammar, but more importantly also in regards to the primary function of language: communication. I am sad and frustrated over the fact that 2 people can speak the same language, and argue about the definition of words. I am sad and frustrated that I in my head am compelled to assemble a custom dictionary for every person I interact with. It is exhausting beyond belief, and at times it makes me want to stop communicating altogether because of how hard it is.

[@nio804]

​@@NavnikBHSilver I don't think it's even theoretically possible for languages to be fully concrete and consistent. There are many many concepts that don't (and *can't*) even have a solid definition beyond "you know it when you see it" and even if you consider just phonetics, human language allows for a lot of variation in how things are pronounced because otherwise we just wouldn't be able to understand each other, because we produce sounds imperfectly. That's why in science, new terms usually get defined before they are used. That way, the reader can always know exactly what is being said, but obviously in casual conversations people just tend to assume a common understanding which often goes wrong.

[@NavnikBHSilver]

@@nio804 You're probably right, doesn't diminish my desire for a less agonizing way of communication.

[@Sammysapphira]

@@NavnikBHSilver Saying math is a "concrete and consistent language" is a gigantic oxymoron. Math shares the same inconsistent variable letters across multiple scientific doctrines. There is a reason why every single variable must be EXPLICITLY described in mathematical papers such as "Let this be that" because you cannot assume someone would know what a variable is. For example Ω. What is it, an Ohm, or the Density Parameter? Who knows! "Oh, but it's clear when the context is provided, such as electrical engineering." Nope! That just proves that it's inconsistent. This isn't even considering the fact that math changes so much every 100 years.

[@EiboThieme]

Thank you, even though i have some academic linguistic background I learned a lot today where formerly I had just accepted those strange spellings. It all makes much more sense now for me ❤

[@marathorne6821]

Always fascinating! Thank you, Rob 🙏

[@Wooberstein]

Gutenberg didn't invent þe printing press. He invented metal (reusable) movable type. I know you acknowledged þe Chinese inventing þe printing press, paper, and þey even had nonmetal movable type in some areas of the world. Gutenberg made it cheaper and faster for European languages, which was a breakthrough, but too many people say he "invented the printing press" furthering the myth of Eurocentrism.

[@WGGplant]

Well, the printing press in Europe wasn't from china. It was a separate invention that Europe got to long after china had. But they both had the idea separately, at least according to historical evidence. Just like how one group of ppl probably didn't invent shoes. They came about separately in different places.

[@jr2904]

What wouldn't Europeans be eurocentric?

[@michaelrichter9427]

He didn't invent movable type either. The Chinese invented movable type (wooden and clay), and the Koreans invented metal movable type. All centuries before Gutenberg was even a twinkle in the mailman's eye.

[@blengi]

lol the chinese didn't even have screws which is the mechanical mechanism making the gutenburg press OG, they untechnologically manually rubbed bits of paper onto wooden blocks which is hardly anymore sophisticated than romans manually stamping text onto billions of coins a thousand years prior

[@bcubed72]

If they put a superfluous "h" in "gherkin," shouldn't they also add one to "jherkin'," as well? You know, for symmetry!

[@GajanaNigade]

I am geeking the hell out here!!!

[@nhand42]

Great episode and thank you thank you for introducing me to Linus Boman's channel.

[@gavincstewart]

This is such a fun channel! Love you Rob Words!!