A Massive T.rex Bigger Than Scotty! E.D. Cope: The New King

How big was T.rex? New data shows that the T.rex E.D. Cope, the "Copium rex," was the biggest theropod ever found, increasing theropod size limits to new heights. T.rex was a powerful predatory megatheropod. While Sue and Scotty are currently cited as the biggest T.rex specimens, new measurements of E.D. Cope, from the Black Hills Institute in South Dakota, form a challenge for the title of the megatheropod king. Measurements of this new T.rex femur indicate that Cope may be between 10.6 and 12.4 tonnes, making it the biggest theropod by up to 2 tonnes. T.rex size is a hot debate in paleontology, and Cope just turned it into a bonfire. Copium rex!
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Campione, N.E., Evans, D.C., Brown, C.M. and Carrano, M.T. (2014), Body mass estimation in non-avian bipeds using a theoretical conversion to quadruped stylopodial proportions. Methods Ecol Evol, 5: 913-923. doi.org/10.1111/2041-210X.12226
Carr, T.D., Napoli, J.G., Brusatte, S.L. et al. Insufficient Evidence for Multiple Species of Tyrannosaurus in the Latest Cretaceous of North America: A Comment on “The Tyrant Lizard King, Queen and Emperor: Multiple Lines of Morphological and Stratigraphic Evidence Support Subtle Evolution and Probable Speciation Within the North American Genus Tyrannosaurus”. Evol Biol 49, 327-341 (2022). doi.org/10.1007/s11692-022-09...
Hurlburt, Grant. (1999). Hurlburt, G. R. 1999. Comparison of body mass estimation techniques, using recent reptiles and the pelycosaur Edaphosaurus boanerges. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology 19 (2):338-350.. Journal of Vertebrate Paleontology. 19. 338-350.
Paul, G.S., Persons, W.S. & Van Raalte, J. The Tyrant Lizard King, Queen and Emperor: Multiple Lines of Morphological and Stratigraphic Evidence Support Subtle Evolution and Probable Speciation Within the North American Genus Tyrannosaurus. Evol Biol 49, 156-179 (2022). doi.org/10.1007/s11692-022-09...
Persons, W.S., IV, Currie, P.J. and Erickson, G.M. (2020), An Older and Exceptionally Large Adult Specimen of Tyrannosaurus rex. Anat Rec, 303: 656-672. doi.org/10.1002/ar.24118

[@TheVividen]

Please see this community post for an update on Copium rex's mass (he's still the biggest T.rex discovered, but not quite as big as this video calculated. I received actual measurements from Peter Larson that changed his size). kzbin.info/door/mkkmzfWWf4HzrO8SGO3gjwcommunity?lb=UgkxvnMRH0F1rD4anNzhBpvY9Vh29Dg3magm

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

@@ahmadfaizan5173 The new estimate is based on the average of different parts of Cope's skeleton compared to other Tyrannosaurs and scaled, and since Cope's limb proportions seem unusual compared to those of other Tyrannosaurs, scaling this way would also have a large variation. The final result taken is the average result of this method. It's a reasonable estimate, but it also doesn't mean that the original estimate in the video was wrong. You can think of these two results as the Cope weight range

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

I have a suggestion, maybe you can update your weight estimate. Because your calculation seems to ignore one factor, your final calculation is the average of three averages.However, statistical weight coefficient was not taken into account, because for the estimation of body weight, the weight of the three factors in the calculation should not be equal, because they correlate differently with body weight. And the correlation between femur circumference and weight is higher than the other two. So it should have a larger weight coefficient in the calculation. So your final calculation should be the weighted average of the three different averages, and the circumference of the femur should weigh more than the other two factors in the calculation to get a more reliable calculation. If you do not consider the weight coefficient, the final result is likely to be low. Based on this, I would say that Cope over 12 tons is still reasonable, especially considering that the incredibly large tibia may have made its hip height higher than originally expected

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

I have re-compared the femur photos of Cope with those of Sue. The femur of Cope shows slight but obvious signs of damage at the femoral head and the lesser tubercles of femur. Perhaps we should re-confirm with Larson whether 127cm is the pre-repair or post-repair length .This information can be misleading if not clearly confirmed. Although the wear on the picture is not serious, it may only reduce the overall length by a few centimeters, and the repair should be very close to the length of SUE's femur. Of course, even at this length, the femur length is still short compared to the 630mm femur circumference, but the overall hind limb length is still very long. Of course, there is another possibility that Paul's 130cm is the length after repair predicted by him. In fact, he may not have made a wrong measurement, but just recorded the data after his own repair. so I think we should be more careful before we confirm the details and measurement standards

[@TheZXKUQYB]

Imagine if EDCope femur was shorter and had a longer tibia. Like the variations between humans , Bolt vs avg Joe's legs. He could be considerably faster and larger. Meaning it might be a naturally swifter variant able eat a larger range of prey as it grew.

[@Shafi856]

E.D. cope is now 12.33m long & weights 10.6 tonnes according to Randomdinos 😊

[@zillarex8628]

Giganotasaurus: this is unfair how do you keep getting bigger?!? T. Rex: Cope

[@Shafi856]

kzbin.info2G5-p70PnKg?si=nn4IgMBpQkXrS3Vp

[@inspectorwhoreacts]

It's actually amazing how perfectly named T Rex was since it's discovery, whenever there's a new challenger, it steps up it's game to keep the crown.

[@yaboijai122]

@@boi9842shut up Jack Horner

[@Jeskio420]

@@boi9842wdym

[@codyerickson3550]

@@boi9842Is that you, Jack Horner?

[@rachelvieira397]

@@boi9842 for the last time T .REX WAS A HUNTER!!!!!

[@amritdhillon4021]

It wasn't called T. rex when first discovered. It was called Dynamosaurus imperiosis. When they found another Dynamosaurus they thought it was a different animal and named it Tyrannosaurus rex. By right, it should retain the name Dynamosaurus, but it's current name proved too charismatic.

[@majungabunga]

Giganotosaurus fans when they find out Trex isnt 4-6 tons:

[@TheMe-Di-O-CrePanda]

@@boi9842that is outdated, Rex was a very dangerous PREDATOR. There are plenty of fossils that prove this.

[@Prehistoryanim]

@@boi9842no, every up to date research says it hunted large dinosaurs like edmontasaur, triceratops, ankylosaurs, and other large creatures

[@oliyes406]

@@boi9842 jack horner moment

[@hafizurrahman1006]

Copium Rex's thigh is shorter than Scotty meaning Copium Rex is only 9.5 tons . 12.4 tons isn't official. Scotty is the biggest T rex that weights only 10.4 tons With the current official estimates Giganotosaurus carolinii is still the biggest carnivorous dinosaur that weights 10.6 tonnes

[@GEK0dev]

@@boi9842Holy shit your from 2001 WAT

[@TrexAintaChicken]

I truly believe that dinosaurs, like crocodilians, continued to grow throughout their lives. A T.rex, so long as it lived long enough, could have probably reached some truly astonishing sizes.

[@Lamborlobator]

They do grow forever but at some point the growth becomes insignificant as it slows down

[@PestilentAllosaurus]

This is why I love playing Beasts of Bermuda. It has that as a important part of the gameplay. The older you get, the bigger. But your growth becomes less and less noticeable yet noticeable enough to younger members of your species. Sickness becomes a greater risk the older you get, which holds true even to this day. And the bigger you are, the more you need to consume to fill your stomach. Not to mention bloodlines, and through a Skilltree like manner being able to focus on survival; eating rotten corpses/less affected by sickness,etc, health, stress reduction. Combat: which is mostly self explanatory. Or Speed. Which between combat can also include aquatic/swimming abilities, stealth, & acrobatics capabilities like jumping, turning, etc. It can really feel like you are growing a dinosaur, especially if you started in a Egg. See yourself develop as a embryo, Hatch as a tiny or small defenseless or sometimes scentless individual. Inheriting things from your parents, be it for good or bad. As inbreeding is a thing and affects you like it would in reality. Pigmentation disorders from Albinism, Melanism, piebald, erythrism, to even xanthochromism and many more. It makes me wonder if there were, and if so what a real tyrannosaurus rex with erythrism would look like. Strawberry colored? Light pink? Or deep reds. If it affected them negatively in socializing or hunting.

[@Mayan_88694]

@@boi9842nope, T. rex was an active hunter, cope, pathetic Neanderthal

[@Crunchy166]

Enter godzilla

[@jointcerulean3350]

There have been reports of crocodiles reaching 30 foot reported in the Congo, probably an unknown undocumented species of giant, and also reports of saltwater and Nile crocs growing over the 23 to 20 foot estimates, both historical and even modern reports.

[@jamesaron1967]

Every year _T.rex_ assumes greater and greater dominance as the most terrifying predator in the history of terrestrial evolution. It's bordering mythic level status at this point. Difficult to envision what kind of ecological environment drove evolutionary pressures to create such an animal.

[@Mine0Taur]

One with Torosaurus and Triceratops in it. Imagine the battles they must've put up.

[@babyblue1443]

​@@Mine0Taurdon't forget my boy anky 6 m dakotaraptors and hadrosaurids just over 12 metres

[@jamesblonde2271]

Even the Juveniles completely plugged allthe other predatory niches, I bet they hunted in packs

[@SmokeDog1871]

Huge prey helps

[@concept5631]

There's a reason Hell Creek earned its name.

[@rachelvieira397]

Tyrannosaurus rex is definitely one of the most fascinating Apex predators in the history of planet earth

[@rodrigopinto6676]

Exactly

[@christianvaixco196]

@@rodrigopinto6676 essa palhaçada de querer usar uns fragmentos do giga, pra forçadamente tentar competir com o REAL KING!!! extrapolando em cima de cacarecos, contra t rex's com diversos indivíduos quase que completos, T REX é um dos dinos que mais se tem conhecimento, não tem nem comparação com outros mega teropodes, E O T REX TAMBÉM TEM FRAGMENTOS!!! QUE INDICAM SER MUITO MAIORES!!! POhrrr****... ESTIMATIVAS ATÉ 15T!!!... ae pega fragmentos do giga super extrapolados contra t rex praticamente completos, ESSA RÉGUA TÁ ERRADA!!! e mesmo assim T REX É MAIOR!!! e o individuo do giga que se tem mais conhecimento, acho que não chega a 8T, a SUE é maior, acho que altura e comprimento também, más em peso e força É MUITO MAIOR!!! ae vem o scotty QUE É MUITO MUITO MAIOR!!! e recentemente veio o COPE, QUE É INSANAMENTE SUPERIOR!!! E AINDA TEM UMA TAL DE BERTHA CHEGANDO... que possivelmente AINDA MAIS BRUTA!!!! ae seguindo os "exemplos" do giga... tem os T REX'S FRAGMENTADOS TAMBÉM!!!!! POSSIVELMENTE CHEGANDO A 15T!!!!! 👊😲GIGA NÃO CHEGA AOS PÉS!!!!

[@GEK0dev]

Incredible, Rex once again not only takes but currently cements it’s presence as the largest theropod

[@spinosaurussp]

You guys should ' COPE ' No evidence of T Rex getting 12.4 tons. It would break it's legs . T Rex is officially 9 tons. & Giganotosaurus is 10.5 tons. Conclusion: Giganotosaurus is the biggest theropod

[@YaBoiDREX]

Largest Land Carnivore of all time.

[@GEK0dev]

@@YaBoiDREX Correct

[@goldman77700]

It feels like an arms race for whose the biggest and baddest carnivore dino of all. 😂

[@GEK0dev]

@@goldman77700 Ikr

[@NickSibz]

T Rex every time a "bigger" apex predator is found: Hold my femur.

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

I am super-masterpiece-34, I think, in addition to raising the upper limit on the size of Tyrannosaurus rex, the presence of these giant specimens shows that specimens the size of sue and scotty are not as rare as people used to think

[@heeheeyup35]

Do you think that could be attributed to fossil preservation bias, since larger bones are easier to find and are less brittle?

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

From the geological sense, I think there is no basis for this argument, is it possible that the strata will selectively crush small fossils? In fact, the most complete dinosaur specimens we've ever found are the small ones@@heeheeyup35

[@chazparr6132]

​@@heeheeyup35I always thought larger animals were preserved poorly?

[@KermRiv]

​@heeheeyup35 that's the coolest part of this to me. We won't be done finding fossils for awhile so we still have plenty left to find out.

[@dino_drawings]

@@chazparr6132 and @heeheeyup35 Preservation bias does vary from place to place. Like the places over in chine where all the good feather fossils are from, there is a huge bias towards tiny creatures. In hell creek there is more of a bias towards larger creatures. However, laws of statistics says that in a normal distribution population we are most likely to find the average of we pick at random. Meaning the odds of us finding the biggest to ever exist, is essentially zero. But with how many we have found, we likely have seen some in the higher ranges.

[@beastmaster0934]

Looks like Scotty has possibly been dethroned. Just like how he dethroned Sue all those years ago.

[@EBLazerRex]

I can't believe that a heavier rex was in a paper that everyone forgot about. Also, a possibly heavier (and maybe longer than "Scotty?") T. rex specimen might be around the corner!

[@TheVividen]

True true! I'm definitely one of those people that missed Cope's measurements because I thought the paper was questionable haha. We'll see if Bertha can match up!

[@EBLazerRex]

@@TheVividen T. rex is demonstrating why it shouldn't be overlooked anymore in the "biggest theropod ever" discussion 😄

[@David-ni5hj]

​@@EBLazerRexshouldn't be overlooked??? Since a while that T Rex is known to be much heavier than the next runner ups for the title 🤷‍♂️

[@francissemyon7971]

​@@TheVividenThe femur being shorter doesn’t cast some doubt on the 12.5 t estimate ?

[@suricata1993]

@@francissemyon7971you can see on the paper that the longest femur mapusaurus was also the one with the lesser width and therefore the less massive of the 3 mapusaurus

[@decimation9780]

At this point, it’s being reinforced that the T-Rex was king for a good reason.

[@jacksborns3414]

So crazy how they discovered T.rex so early on and it ended up keepinh it's title as the most powerful and largest land carnivore ever

[@julianfalken8861]

@@jacksborns3414perhaps because of its success, more of them could exist because of how great their hunting skill was and there for so many could populate.

[@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb]

Bone crushing bite

[@decimation9780]

@@ZombieSlayer-dj3wb Crushing? Your thinking is too small, it wouldn’t crush bones, it would splinter and pulverize them.

[@jacksborns3414]

@@julianfalken8861 Well they were also one of the last dinos alive, so older specimens are probably lost/rarer

[@nono9543]

Remember when WWD thought T.Rexes were only 5 tons? Times really have changed.

[@devilman4018]

Looking back, 5 tonnes was just plain silly, even at the time. I mean, I'm pretty sure the estimates for an average Rex were at 6 tonnes at the time, with Sue being 6,4. It's also weird that they upscaled a bunch of animals such as Liopleurodon and Ornithocheirus (which I believe goes by Tropeognathus now), and the lizard King himself got the lightweight treatment, though they gave it a greater length at 13 meters.

[@jacobniemann4756]

​​@@devilman4018 Liopleurodon makes sense because they initially only found its head and we didnt know much about Pliosaurs at the time so it was massively overscaled. Since then a more complete specimen (from a different pliosaur species i don't recall the name of 😅) was found and they changed how they did their measurements and its size shrunk drastically to what we believe to be factual about them now. As for Ornithocheirus is actually a real species and is closely related to the Tropeognathus but Tropeognathus wasn't described at the time so I believe they treated it as maybe some form of subspecies based off fragmentary remains? That one always confused me a bit tbh it is massive even by Trope standards

[@GODEYE270115]

5 tons even a midget t.rex wasn’t that small

[@nono9543]

@@GODEYE270115 Right? Maybe a Tarbosaurus. But a fully grown T.Rex? To this day I still don't know where those estimates came from. WWD is a solid series, probably my favorite piece of dinosaur media out there but the final Cretaceous Episode had some flaws that were inaccurate even for the time. The idea that dinosaurs were dying out prior to the meteorite was one of them.

[@devilman4018]

@tossupeater While I remember there being estimates at the time that suggested Lio getting that big, I also remember the producers saying they made it that large for dramatic effect. As for T.rex, it honestly wouldn't surprise me if the animal is actually 13 meters instead of 12.

[@gladiolus5377]

T. rex gets more badass with each new discovery. The attempts in the 2000s to have it being outshined by Spino and Giga look now hilarious. The King was always there all along.

[@rodrigopinto6676]

Exactly

[@MonsterZilla452]

And also Carcharodontosaurus. That lad was also estimated to grow past 15 meters & 15 tons. And it's now lighter than a T Rex

[@gladiolus5377]

@@MonsterZilla452 True, but Carcharodontosaurus wasn't used to crush T. rex and be shown as the new big bad theropod in town (unless you count Dinosaur King lol).

[@GlobalWarmingDragon]

It won’t stop, I hate it, I don’t like how pop culture always think that to make an animal interesting they have to be a t. rex killer, Instead of just, Being itself! It makes me angry.

[@evanlephrog7337]

Agreed. But I still wish for Spino to be big, because I love it :D

[@nfs2seturkish988]

Now imagine the bite force of this thing. This is why T- Rex is my favorite prehistoric animal. They pushed their body to absulute limits as far as laws of physics allowed it. These animals were literally desinged for endless combat. But when you think T- Rex barely could survive in it`s habitat as surviving is the hardest for the apex predator of that environment, you don`t want to be part of that environment this animal once lived. It should be a such tough place if Rex was evolved like that just to survive

[@GanteSpruce]

Back in 2021 a study estimated Sue´s bitefoce as 9.6 tons And Keep in mind that Sue size is 12.40 meters long and weights 9.3 tons

[@nfs2seturkish988]

@@GanteSpruce Thanks for information

[@AgroAcro]

​@tossupeaterDo you know who did that estament? It seems somewhat reasonable considering Dan Folkes estamated Scotty to be 10.55 tons, but I want to look into it.

[@GanteSpruce]

@@AgroAcro I doubt is from a legit source. Dan last work put Scotty weight in 10.45 and the length in 12.35 meters Meanwhile Sue weight is 9.8 and the length is 12.37 according to Dan An outdated study from 2011: "This study found that Sue could be around 9502 kg that is 10.4 tons. These results were achieved by giving Sue a 13% broader model" But another study from 2014: "This older study concluded that Sue was around 7377 kg (8.1 tons) while Scotty was 8004 kg (8.8 tons). Scotty was estimated to be around 8 percent larger than Sue" Then another study from 2018: "That got results similar with Sue being 9130 kg that is 10 tons and there was also a higher result that placed Sue at 9713 kg so 10.7 tons" "There are issues with these higher end estimates. Because the models being used have areas with questionable tissue added and this can effect how accurate the results are" "The tail is bulked up and the flesh added is excessive and this will effect the results of the study. So far our current understanding of Tyrannosaurus does not support this look for the animal" "There is nothing to really suggest it carried this amount of flesh on its tail so this means it is probably a good idea to not use this model for Tyrannosaurus rex unless you want to get really high mass estimates" Before Dan´s recent work though the very last study put Scotty weight at an estimated 8870 kg (9.7 tons) while Sue was estimated at 8462 kg (9.3 tons). Scotty was around 400 kg to possibly 500 kg heavier than Sue. Then Dan shared his work about density and GDI analysis and now Scotty is 10.4 tons and Sue 9.8 tons Also, Henrique Paes aka RandomDinos has updated his work on Sue. The estimated length is 12.40 meters, the height is 3.90 meters and the mass is 10 tons Pretty similar to Dan´s own work: 12.37 meters long, 3.7 meters tall and 9.8 tons

[@AgroAcro]

@@GanteSpruce Dan Folkes website currently says Scotty is 10.55 tons, that's where I got my number from. Like you said the thing that seems a bit off about the 10.4 tons Scotty and 10.2 ton Sue is how close they are. Scotty definitely seems more than .2 tons heavier

[@blacknoir8504]

Can't wait to hear a 15 ton Rex when I'm at my deathbed.

[@celestial5236]

Almost certainly existed at this point

[@tobiasedwards2643]

Can’t wait to see if Bertha really can take Cope’s throne or at least join him as the king and queen of the T. rexes

[@TheVividen]

Neither can I!

[@dirt_dert_durt]

Throne*

[@tobiasedwards2643]

@@dirt_dert_durt damn you’re right I’m about to fix that

[@dirt_dert_durt]

@@tobiasedwards2643 No worries bro!

[@tobiasedwards2643]

@@dirt_dert_durt 👍🏾

[@mowabb]

At this point the Tyrannosaurs are like the Saiyan race in dragon ball. There only rivals are each other.

[@godzillagurus576]

Cope and Scotty are Goku and Vegeta of dinos lol

[@Crakinator]

Copium rex is fun, but the biggest rex being named “Bertha” is just 👌

[@TheVividen]

I can't wait for the showdown at the end of the year!

[@neganrex5693]

@@TheVividen I would love to know the age of Cope and Bertha at time of death. It maybe somewhat of proof if T-Rex kept growing until the day it died like some animals do today. It got me thinking about it when Sue was 29 years old and Scotty a little bigger was 30 years old at time of death. Seems from what I been hearing the older they are the bigger they are.

[@christianvaixco196]

@@TheVividen 👍EXATAMENTE BRO... essa palhaçada de querer usar uns fragmentos do giga, pra forçadamente tentar competir com o REAL KING!!! extrapolando em cima de cacarecos, contra t rex's com diversos indivíduos quase que completos, T REX é um dos dinos que mais se tem conhecimento, não tem nem comparação com outros mega teropodes, E O T REX TAMBÉM TEM FRAGMENTOS!!! QUE INDICAM SER MUITO MAIORES!!! POhrrr****... ESTIMATIVAS ATÉ 15T!!!... ae pega fragmentos do giga super extrapolados contra t rex praticamente completos, ESSA RÉGUA TÁ ERRADA!!! e mesmo assim T REX É MAIOR!!! e o individuo do giga que se tem mais conhecimento, acho que não chega a 8T, a SUE é maior, acho que altura e comprimento também, más em peso e força É MUITO MAIOR!!! ae vem o scotty QUE É MUITO MUITO MAIOR!!! e recentemente veio o COPE, QUE É INSANAMENTE SUPERIOR!!! E AINDA TEM UMA TAL DE BERTHA CHEGANDO... que possivelmente AINDA MAIS BRUTA!!!! ae seguindo os "exemplos" do giga... tem os T REX'S FRAGMENTADOS TAMBÉM!!!!! POSSIVELMENTE CHEGANDO A 15T!!!!! 👊😲GIGA NÃO CHEGA AOS PÉS!!!!

[@Mr.M3447]

@@TheVividenwhat’s the song in the background not the intro

[@John-qu8zv]

I knew they would eventually find a bigger T.Rex because they keep finding bigger ones every so often. Other large theropods are interesting but the Rex is more highly evolved. Forwarding facing eyes incredible hearing and smell plus it has the most powerful biteforce so far known. I can't wait to find out about Bertha.

[@AgroAcro]

To anyone doubting T.rex's title of the King, send this to them.

[@Aemilius_.]

Like the name of this videos specimen, COPE.@@boi9842

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@boi9842shut up pathetic child🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@paleospino4956]

@@boi9842 Average Giganatosaurus fanboy.

[@regorthejoe7953]

​@@boi9842yeah that would mean elaphants eat algae in the air and have cushion pads

[@Mayan_88694]

@@boi9842false, T. rex was an active hunter, the scavenger theory has been long debunked, cope. Pathetic Neanderthal

[@martontoth2063]

Bertha is such a great nickname for a giant T. rex. Truly a large caliber siege weapon XD.

[@GanteSpruce]

This video is not about Bertha though...

[@dino_drawings]

@@GanteSpruce they mentioned it.

[@martontoth2063]

I know, but i still like that name more. And it got me excited for the upcoming paper.@@GanteSpruce

[@seanzibonanzi64]

It's so freaking insane to me this planet produced bipedal animals that big, truth can be stranger than fiction.

[@danielkorladis7869]

the late Mesozoic was so amazingly over the top

[@Gadiller-we7wl]

​@@danielkorladis7869 BIGGER, BETTER, STRONGER

[@GigB_]

Every new paper that comes out just buffs T.rex even more

[@rodrigopinto6676]

Exactly

[@hunterglaspell]

It truly was a chonki boi

[@YourMid740]

Just wait for the Kaiju T-Rex paper in like 2169.

[@JayJay-kc4dn]

​@@YourMid740They will say that we 'will have living clonned mammoths in 10 years' on Discovery channel that year : D

[@bluedragon219123]

"...pictured here with GANDALF." That is my new favorite nickname for Bob Bakker. Great Job! :)

[@dynamoterror18]

If Cope's estimated weight is accurate, that would put him on par with Big John: the biggest triceratops specimen! Also, did the paper mention how old Cope might've been? A tyrannosaurus bigger than Scotty must've broken the record of how old a tyrannosaurus could be as well! Long live the new king! 👑🦖

[@AgroAcro]

​@tossupeaterScotty is only 23-27 years old? That means if he lived longer he might have gotten even bigger. That's crazy.

[@jkjk7423]

Big John was 12,000 kg? Do you have the source for this estimate; I've never heard of this before.

[@minutemansam1214]

@@AgroAcro Not necessarily. Considering birds today eventually stop growing, it's not wrong to presume most dinosaurs likely stopped growing eventually.

[@AgroAcro]

@@minutemansam1214 True

[@jjqg6164]

​@@minutemansam1214 Nah

[@accountrandom9865]

The t-rex continues to get buffs while the spinosaurus gets nerfed with each patch

[@hugomas5207]

Cuánta razón tienes.

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

After looking through the comments section, I found that there are still some misconceptions. I will explain each of them here 1.Cope's fossils are not fragments, please stop calling a complete femur fragments. The femur is more reliable for estimating body size than a bunch of pieces put together, and it's the most reliable bone for estimating body size. Except for Spinosaurus and a few individuals. In theropod dinosaurs, femur circumference is directly proportional to body weight. The 10% completeness was before the discovery of Cope's femur and tibia. A complete femur and tibia would be significant for any theropod dinosaur. 2.Cope's legs are not short, there are many different standards for measuring the length of the femur, measuring it at different positions may result in different measurement results. we don't know exactly where Paul measured the length of the femur. Taking Sue as an example, there are many different versions of Sue's femur length, as Sue's femur has been measured by many different paleontologists. 132cm is measured to the greater trochanter of the femur, Larson's 134cm is measured to the lesser tubercle of the femur, and the measurement to the femoral head is approximately 140cm. But the measurement of femoral circumference is relatively uniform, for example, Sue's femoral circumference has always been relatively uniform at 580mm.Referring to the Trix measured by Paul, the 117cm femur length has a circumference of 530mm. Perhaps his measurement method may lead to a shorter length. The 117cm femur length has a circumference of 530mm. Perhaps his measurement method may lead to a shorter length. In addition, leg length depends not only on the length of the femur, but also the length of the tibia, the height of the iliac crest, and the metatarsal bone. Cope has an intact tibia. In the image, the tibia and femur are placed side by side, and judging from the image, the tibia of Cope is definitely long, at least no shorter than 120cm. This also makes her tibia longer than sue (120cm) 3.DAN's weight estimation is very accurate, and his drawings are of high quality. But you'll notice that his estimates of giga's body size are significantly higher than others. This is mainly because the spine of the vertebrae in his GIGA's back is drawn higher than others, and there is an extra volume here. But I must make it clear that the fossilized vertebrae of giga have never been described and measured in any one paper, so we don't actually know the exact size of these vertebrae. I don't know what information he got to draw giga's nerve spines so high. You can take Dan's weight estimate as a reasonable guess, but please don't take it as the latest research or as an established fact. Just because it's the latest doesn't mean it's necessarily the most accurate, nor does it mean someone else's smaller weight estimate is wrong or out of date. 4. One important factor that we often overlook when comparing body types is age. Dinosaurs didn't just stop growing when they reached adulthood. The emergence of EFS means that the individual has almost no room to grow. I often see people say it's unfair to compare CH1 to sue or scotty. However, this is actually quite fair, because CH1 itself is an asymptotic individual just like SUE and scotty, an individual with EFS and no room to grow. I included in my post the osteological evidence for why CH1 is an elderly adult, as described by Coria, the discoverer of GIGA. Yet I have never seen anyone in the paleo media address this important issue. Even many people think that CH1 must be a relatively small individual, when in fact it is more likely to be a relatively large individual in the giga population. I've listed all the Tyrannosaurus rex specimens that we know for sure have no room to grow, and out of seven specimens, 5 of these 7 specimens are larger than CH1, and 4 of these 5 are significantly larger than CH1. One is about the same size as CH1, not too far apart, and one is definitely smaller than CH1.

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

BODY SIZE NOT BODY TYPE

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

There's one more thing I want to mention，There's a good chance that Cope is ”Manospordylus gigas“. That huge vertebrae,Its serial number is AMNH 3982, formerly known as "Manospordylus gigas", but later confirmed to be Tyrannosaurus Rex. Because it seems to have been discovered in the same place as Cope, and Larson briefly described (Cope)BHI6248, a portion of stacked vertebrae were discovered at the location where Cope was discovered. It seems that someone intentionally stacked these bones a long time ago, suggesting that this place may be where Cope himself collected two vertebrae from the skeleton of "M.giga" back then. It is said to be 10% larger than the same part of sue.We know that vertebrae size is also highly correlated with size.If this is true, as Larson suspects, then this is yet another strong piece of evidence that Cope is likely to be considerably larger than Sue

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

If Cope is indeed M. Giga, it would mean that Cope was actually the first Tyrannosaurus rex discovered. The first and the biggest. What a legendary animal

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

I don't know why I can't post a link, but if you want to see the details and explanation of # 4, you can search the title on the dinosaurs section of redit “Is the holotype of Giganotosaurus really larger than most Tyrannosaurus Rex specimens, as many people claim?”

[@Dastabbygit]

This is probably old news but isn’t sue the largest Rex or is that incorrect?

[@Jadenette11111]

Giga fans: I CAN STILL BEAT YOU! Trex enjoyers: cope

[@Mikailodon]

E. D. Cope may be dead but he still lives on as the new biggest carnivorous specimen to ever walk the Earth. That's one lawd comin

[@oliyes406]

MIKAIL🗣🗣🗣🗣💯💯💯🗣

[@TheVividen]

The chonky beast! I'm surprised at how quickly things have changed with T.rex's mass estimates since our Megatheropod videos came out. And Bertha might shake things up even further!

[@MonsterZilla452]

This kiddo here too

[@drakonos79]

@@TheVividen i see what you did there... Bertha shaking things up. 😁

[@dairydregone7146]

The King is about to turn into an Emperor

[@user-ty1zr9ng6h]

"Imagine a predator the size of a house stalking you at night with vision as sharp as an eagle's, a sense of smell as keen as a bloodhound's, and padded feet making its footsteps as silent as death." Now that I've gotten older, sometimes I only remember the part where T. rex is a majestic animal and forget the reason why it was the beautiful nightmare I adored as a child.

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

Anyone who undoubtedly beleives the 10.4 tonne Giganotosaurus paratype estimate should undoubtedly beleive this.

[@GanteSpruce]

Better yet: People truly believe Spino´s single snout bone fragment reach 14 meters long and weights 7 tons. The paleo community seems to accepts this as a fact. Then they should too accept this fragmentary remains and the estimates too right?

[@TheVividen]

You've got a point! There's a lot more material to reliably scale Copium from.

[@mateussousa1236]

T-rex is heavier than Giganotosaurus again, but Giganotosaurus is taller and longer! docs.google.com/spreadsheets/u/0/d/1GVpHchzogtjkTqQrP7PFM2BAWMGHYHABD-Xnk_6KPj0/htmlview

[@Shimosevilbrother99]

​@@GanteSprucepaleo community actually is forced to accept fragmentary remains size estimates because of fanboys. Look how much fans will bs angry if paleontologists use more complete 3 tons Spinosaurus & 7 tons Giga holotype.

[@smilodnfatalis55]

My toxic trait is believing I could tame one by putting my hand out like in How To Train Your Dragon and exuding my overwhelming purity of heart.

[@TheVividen]

That's not toxic. That's truth.

[@drakonos79]

considering its bite force of 'bonkers' Newtons.. if you did stick your hand out with eyes closed, like Hiccup did, you would have lost that arm and not feel a thing until you opened your eyes and saw that it was gone.

[@claytonpierce3516]

So I went and saw Scotty in person and that dude was an absolute behemoth but now there are more rexes possibly two tons or more larger 🤯

[@rodrigopinto6676]

Exactly

[@hugomas5207]

Haber que alguien me explique. Cuánto pesa el puto Rex. 10, 12, 15T????

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@hugomas5207 posiblemente entre 9/12.4 toneladas

[@hugomas5207]

@@rodrigopinto6676 A vale. Me avía enterado que el espécimen de éste vídeo era de 15T. Gracias.

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@hugomas5207 es el peso máximo teórico

[@ripley-8837]

My fking god, Just imagine a +12 tonnes trex in real life, in front of you… everything about this thing is pure madness

[@OLPHC13F]

And this is why the Jurassic World movies upset people so much. Especially in the last one, bc if anything, based on the new data, the sizes of the two animals (Giga and Rexy) should have been reversed

[@Fede_99]

5.33 ah yes, my favorite pterosaur, the Hell Creek rhamphorhynchoid

[@Killerg238]

Giga, Carchar , spino fans watching this😭😭😭

[@nothing4381]

Look at them crying in the comments😭

[@paolopasaol9700]

Me who just loves Dinosaurs, period: 😒

[@technologic21]

A truly massive biped. Getting to be that size means its prey was large as well: hadrosaurs, ceratopsians, and defiantly sauropods.

[@dibble1331]

welll considering the only sauropod it lived with was the absolutely titanic alamosaurus im not sure about that last part

[@gladiolus5377]

Likely not sauropods because there weren't any in Hell Creek where Copium was dicovered.

[@mikerude5073]

@@gladiolus5377 we don't know the extent of their ranges. Large Sauropods don't tend to fossilize well. That said, T.Rex wouldn't have hunted the absolutely colossal adults, even if their ranges did overlap.

[@richie_0740]

large sauropods wouldve been out of the T-Rex's menu for sure. theyre not built for such a task unlike say the Carcharodontosaurids like Giganotosaurus and Mapusaurus, young sauropods wouldve been fair game but after a certain size range an adult Alamosaurus wouldve been invulnerable to even T-Rexes like Cope and Scotty

[@ukrainianbloke9676]

I doubt it killed sauropods, i can’t think of any predator that could kill a fully grown sauropod.

[@AgroAcro]

Its really cool seeing how big therapods could get. It's possible there were 15 ton T.rex, and I really hope we find one someday. Who knows, maybe that's Bertha.

[@spinosaurussp]

Biggest T Rex was 9-10 tons

[@Breviparopus]

I've seen you before. Nice profile art

[@Aemilius_.]

Did you watch the video?@@spinosaurussp

[@oliyes406]

he's another one of those commenters on this video who are angry that Copium got 12t, so they're desperately trying to disprove it with minimal evidence.@@Aemilius_.

[@mrkomodo4951]

@@spinosaurussp cope

[@David-ni5hj]

It's called Cope Rex because Giga and Spino fans must be coping and seething right now 😎

[@boi9842]

at least Giga and Spino are actually predators not scavenger.

[@hafizurrahman1006]

Copium Rex's thigh is shorter than Scotty meaning Copium Rex is only 9.5 tons . 12.4 tons isn't official. Scotty is the biggest T rex that weights only 10.4 tons With the current official estimates Giganotosaurus carolinii is still the biggest carnivorous dinosaur that weights 10.6 tonnes

[@David-ni5hj]

@@boi9842 lmao do people actually believe that???!!! What is this??? 2003???

[@Ryan-uq7kj]

​@@boi9842Aaaand there's the copium lol. There is actual evidence of Rex attacking live prey (though it would no doubt take a free meal like most predators would), so it's clearly not an exclusive scavenger. And Spino is primarily a fisher. And there is no actual evidence of Giga hunting, but it likely focused on smaller prey. Not adult sauropods

[@boi9842]

@@David-ni5hjall serious scientists agreed with that until T rex fans sent death threats, so they had to accommodate science to pop culture pressure because T rex fans are obnoxious.

[@liamdealmeida9914]

At this point, you guys can't tell me this thing wasn't created by a 5yo. - The eyesight of a bird of pray - Could probably see ultraviolet - Supreme sense of smell - Hypersensitive hearing - Twice the bite force of a Saltwater Croc - Teeth made to crush bones - Superior agility - Lower centre of gravity - More muscular build - As intelligent as a baboon - Has more fighting experience - America, f*ck yeah! - Continues to get bigger Next you're going to tell me they traveled to the future and hunted Megalodon and Livyatan. No, I'm not a Giga fanboy...I'm a Carchar fanboy. But all jokes aside, T.rex is a freak of nature. Not saying it's made up, but look at those specs and tell me those aren't the stats of a maxed out video game character.

[@rodrigopinto6676]

More than twice the “insignificant” bite force of the saltwater crocodile.!

[@hugomas5207]

Si. (No hablemos de Spino)

[@danielkorladis7869]

S-tier

[@drakonos79]

meanwhile Rexes around the continent are laughing reading this like a 1950s newspaper comic! Scotty - "Sue, com'ere and see this! They say Stan was only this big! haha" Jane - "wait til they find uncle Tiny, or cousin Earl!"

[@Godeater13273]

The cope is going to be high with this one.

[@Godeater13273]

@@boi9842 found the guy who can't cope.

[@kailanerman5090]

​@IAMTHEWARRIORWARCLUB Yeah you did 😂 I've seen this guy just trolling about "uh despite decades of science and currently knowledge, YEAH clearly Trex was a scavenger" Clearly Cope was to much for some people...

[@Godeater13273]

@@kailanerman5090 he gotta troll because he can't cope.

[@nothing4381]

​@@boi9842Cry cry cry, lie lie lie...

[@kailanerman5090]

@@Godeater13273 the Tyrant Cope King is still slaying even 66 million years later! Based

[@badasstasticusbadass4908]

T-rexes are like the Salt Water and Nile crocodiles, when you think you have found the biggest specimen, a Gustave or a Cope appeares. And this just T-rex alone, we don't know if other giant theropods like the Gigas, Carchars or Allos could had reached humongous sizes. So... a Jurassic Park type of T-rex could had been possible.

[@TaurusSaurus]

There’s also a newer specimen nicknamed Bertha, there hasn’t been a study done yet but the paleontologists who are working on it noted the femur was larger than Scotty’s.

[@alanwilcox98]

could it be possible that Bertha might be 50 feet or more in length?

[@PaperThinArmor]

Big Bertha, c’mon with these names 😂

[@TaurusSaurus]

@@alanwilcox98 Right now there isn’t any information on this specimen, just that the femur circumference is thicker than Scotty’s. Which is often means it weighs more.

[@Shimosevilbrother99]

@alanwilcox Bertha is shorter than Giganotosaurus paratype which has a body length of 13.5m ( 45 feet). So no way Bertha 50 feet

[@TaurusSaurus]

@@Shimosevilbrother99 we don’t have any measurements on Bertha. All we know is it’s femur is larger than Scotty’s.

[@AlistairZands]

Scotty doesn’t know. Don't tell Scotty.

[@Idrinkalotofcoffee]

The t-rex is almost guaranteed to grow significent larger than the biggest speciments we have uncovered today. Smaller individuals was more likely to die earlier during cometition from stronger individuals. This could be everything from starvation due to bad access on good hunting grounds, death by territorial behavior, falling prey and a harder time cathing prey. Unexperieced animals are also more exposed for earlier death. These animals more than often die due to lack of enviromental knowledge and making bad decisions which again results in dangerous and deadly situations- getting stuck, drowning, falling down cracks and cliffs, killed during hunting, becoming prey, etc. Some of these types of death, under right circumstanses, gives the dead body better conditions for preservation. Bodies buried in mass without oxygen and organic matter gives good conditions for preservation. The bigger and more experienced animals has a higher chance to die in areas where their bodies usually dont have the right conditions for leaving behind evidence of the animals existence. For t-rex this would likely be in places with much water and a high micro layer of soil suporting big prey and other predators. These conditions would make short process of any carcass, even the bones. We see these circumstances with animals today, so this rule can certainly be applied to the dinosaurs, especially the spieces with better cognitive abilities like the t-rex. Animals with small brains and low intelligence makes decisions mostly based on instincts, not by thinking, which basicly remains the same throughout their whole life and therefor more likely to die under simular circumstanses. This behavior, some times, results in less difference when it comes to the individuals age in fossils and carcasses. The t-rex is belived to have a intelligence comperable to primates, elephants, crows and dolphins which makes it a thinker and learner. This means their behavior changes troughout their life, making the animal less likely to die by error and poor judgement each surviving day. The biggest specimens had "fulfilled" their learning curve, making it a very smart and experieced predator, more likely to die by natural causes and therefor had worse conditions for preservations. Throughout t-rex's time on earth- 2.5 million years and 125.000 generations, scientist believe that there had been 2.5 billion individuals, which some over 40 have been found. Some of these individuals are estimated to be around 8-10 tons. My point is that these individuals do not represent the spieces maximum size and the t-rex could most likely get much bigger. African bull elephant normally weigh in around 5 tons, but individuals with a weight of 10 tons are recorded. Thats twice as big. These behemots dont represent their spieces normal traits, but they do represent, with the right genes and circumstanses, the estimated maximum size.

[@celestial5236]

I'm so glad people are finally understanding this. Based on a normal distribution alone 10 ton trexs were likely the norm. With exceptional individuals possibly reaching 50 feet in length and around 16 tonnes in mass. It makes you wonder how many creatures will never get to know about because they were either too rare grew up in a tropical environment where fossilzation is unlikely or straight up chased out of any ecological niche by literal monsters.

[@frost7463]

The thing is, this applies to literally every living thing in the entire planet’s history. So it’s not really worth bringing up.

[@jointcerulean3350]

Wow! This is really cool! Great video, really super fascinating, and incredible, look forward to hearing more on these Tyrannosaurus rex fossils in the future.

[@melvinshine9841]

If T.rex got that big and lived in groups, I'm still going to consider that Albertasaurus "family" as support for that possibility, then full grown Alamosaurus would've been the only thing in the ecosystem that could potentially consider itself safe.

[@AgroAcro]

Yeah, I doubt even a group of T.rex would go after an adult Alamosaurus. Anything else would have to really watch their back.

[@CollegeBallYouknow]

Give it a few more decades and we’ll eventually find a T-Rex bigger than the Blue Whale

[@dwaynejohnson1302]

Even bigger than godzilla

[@davetheuniversalllama6787]

@@dwaynejohnson1302 even bigger than the earth!!

[@dwaynejohnson1302]

@@davetheuniversalllama6787 even bigger than the solar system!

[@Bak1922]

Sorry to be a killjoy but theropods are NEVER getting past 20 tons let alone 190

[@MonsterZilla452]

​@@Bak192220 tons is way too much for a theropods. Biggest theropods only reached 10-11 tons

[@ThePalaeontologist]

This is a great video Viv. I definitely think that limited sample sizes have led to misunderstandings of the upper-limits of Theropods. It works the other way as well. _Nanuqsaurus hoglundi_ was claimed to be a pint-sized Tyrannosaurid on the basis of incredibly scrappy fossil evidence and the theory being based largely on it's place - and latitude - of discovery. The idea of resource scarcity inspired the notion of it _reportedly_ being a 6 metre long animal. The likes of Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus, in part, lived under the Aurora Borealis as well, though they did not exhibit dwarfism. Coming from the Prince Creek Formation, in Alaska, in the High Arctic, it did make some sense though the evidence was far too sparse to be too sure on a 6-7 metre maximum adult size. The larger estimates are now hovering around 9-10 metres for the big adult _Nanuqsaurus hoglundi_ which to my mind, seems more reasonable, after taking a glance at Daspletosaurus, Gorgosaurus and Albertosaurus. It wasn't a bad idea it's just that the evidence was far too limited to justify it, and so it begs the question, couldn't the same be said on the other end of the scale? I often remind myself not to put too much stock in given upper size estimates for _any_ Dinosaur, because the chances are, there'd be a somewhat dubious margin of say 10-20% (I tend to stick to 10% as a generic rule of thumb), where giant individuals will exist. Obviously it would be great to be able to (safely, omnipotently, floating around in Minecraft Creative Mode style etc) see the Dinosaurs in their habitats and make Zoological studies (rather than Palaeozoological ones from the fractured hindsight of over 66 million years) All the same, we have to deal with the taphonomic biases which beset most palaeontological study in general, regarding the sample sizes, preservational quality, factors in each palaeoenvironment creating preservational biases and then that little old problem known as geomorphological processes. Everything from plate tectonics and subduction of crustal strata (as happened to what had been the vast majority of the seabed of the ancient superocean of the Panthalassa/Panthalassic) to the typical geological faulting, folding and erosion processes that go on for hundreds of millions of years, can ruin the day of any fossil trying to make it to being found at all. The old tropes of how fortunate it is to find any vertebrate fossils, begin to become exponentially unlikely and fortuitous, with the complexity of the preservation observed, the quality of the preservation and the potential animal behaviours, even possible to be demonstrated. All told, the odds of finding something like say, the Sue Specimen, are rightly considered astronomical. Most Dinosaur remains won't come close to 90% complete (or about ~93% complete in the case of Sue, from the top of my head IIRC) Most Dinosaur skeletal remains in body fossils, won't get past 30% complete. Fossils begin as being lucky to be fossilised in the first place, then have millions of years of time to risk being destroyed or lost to time anyway. Right this moment, there are almost certainly fossils falling into rivers, into the oceans, to be destroyed hydrologically and eroded physically and chemically. There are almost certainly going to be more lost (by far) than are ever found. And that is before we consider the human impacts on fossils like quarries often just destroying them unwittingly (yes fossils can be saved, but it's obvious the primary concern of a quarry is it's business related operations, and I have no doubt some exquisite fossils will have been utterly annihilated over the decades. It is sickening but there you go. Imagine surviving as a fossil, relatively intact, for 100,000,000 years, and then being dynamited in some quarry and then ground to powder or grit for buildings or components of something else? It's really tragic. An inestimable treasure, lost forever, by industrial processes for no reason other than indifference. Then there are other ways this happens, like Dinosaur fossils having been ground down to powder for 'traditional medicine' and 'supplements' in China for about 5,000-6,000 or so years. Dinosaurs, being considered Dragons. Dragons, thought to be divine, and ancestral to the Emperors themselves. They represented power, virility and prosperity. Naturally, humans managed to make Dinosaur bones into alleged, ancient aphrodisiacs, while calling them Dragons. It apparently still goes on, though I couldn't speak to that if it did or did not currently. I just know for sure it _did_ go on for literally thousands of years, and it makes one wonder how many unique specimens were completely destroyed, consumed and not to put to fine a point on it, shat out. It's just depressing. Then we have other ways a fossil can meet an untimely end because of humanity, like a war causing a museum to be obliterated by bomber raids (as happened in WWII; see Hamburg Museum) and also vandalism (see Canada in 2012 ish when a beautiful specimen of a Hadrosaur was slegdehammered to pieces over-Winter, breaking the hearts of the team of palaeontologists whom left it under a tarpaulin to protect it under from the elements while they waited for Winter to end; the specimen, destroyed by drunken youths being disgusting) The odds are stacked against high quality vertebrate fossils being found at all, in general. They don't need humanity's help to get destroyed. Nature destroys more than we ever could. It's just extra depressing if humans do it on purpose or by accident. Like the Allied bombing raids on Hamburg obviously weren't specifically aimed at taking out the museum in WWII. It just fell foul of carpet bombing/area bombing in WWII. And that was that. Inestimable treasures from prehistoric times, turned to shattered, crumbling fragments and dust. Yes these are rarer examples (thankfully) though it illustrates the madness of a process of chance and fortune, that a lot of fossils have to unwittingly go through to get to palaeontological collections. It's not just unlikely they'll become a fossil in the first place. That's just where the process begins in earnest. I won't whip out the 'lottery win' trope to describe it though. By implication, it always seems unwise to me for folks to stridently argue the toss about literal ten centimetre scales of difference between their favourite Theropod mascots and pin-ups so to speak. Human ego plays into things too often, with people fighting over it when really, it doesn't even need to be one. Ironically that can generate more work and keener focus on getting one argument across, and if anything, 'drama' in the palaeo world can be helpful in indirect ways. Even so, I prefer a cooperative and constructive environment when looking at these things. I can't remember the last time I argued with anyone over the size of this or that Theropod, because I specifically avoided/avoid that kind of shouting match. i just want to try and be as up-to-date with the state of play in palaeontology, and keep refining what I think I already know about the subject, like everyone else doubtlessly is trying to do as well. Not one palaeontologist in the world can have anything like all the answers, and this is why the group effort in my view is invaluable and vital to making a difference. More videos like this Viv, you're great.

[@TheVividen]

Fantastic analysis! I always appreciate your comments.

[@ThePalaeontologist]

@@TheVividen I look forward to your next video. I appreciate the effort put into them.

[@GODEYE270115]

Giga fans thinking they had the lead Rex comes back even bigger every time 🤣 A predator weighing 2 African elephants is bonkers On a side note though, if a giganotosaurus specimen is found even bigger than the current ones. They should name it “Gustav the giga”

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

Even a giant rex would actually be pretty fast for its size, a 13 tonne model got 21 km/h

[@jislh9453]

How did you estimate that ?🤔

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

@@jislh9453 i didn't. Ben from Jagged Fang designs did.

[@jislh9453]

Oh

[@AgroAcro]

Yeah, they wouldn't be able to run whatsoever but their strides were so big even their walking speed is the speed of a human sprinting.

[@thegoodhunter3707]

"T. rex couldn't run" Yeah, but it could speedwalk. It could speedwalk faster than most people can run

[@huitzisalazar4666]

Good video! Very informative. It's definitely an Interesting specimen, I can't wait to see what's in the future.

[@jinchuriki26]

Absolutely a Unit! Can’t believe how far ahead T. rex is now in terms of sheer mass and imagine Bertha one ups this dude😂. Truly the Tyrant of lizard king.

[@TheVividen]

I wonder if Bertha will end up being bigger, after how monstrous Copium seems to be. But we'll see once the paper comes out!

[@jinchuriki26]

@@TheVividenit comes out later this year right? Would be most interesting indeed!

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

Finally people will stop saying Giganotosaurus is the largest theropod. 12.4 tonnes!!!

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

Giganotosaurus footprint scaling 🤠

[@Excusatores]

@@ferociousrazordino3581footprints arent reliable for size estimates, bc they can look way larger than they actually were

[@David-ni5hj]

Giga was never the largest, it's 7-8 tons. I don't get how people have took Dan Folkes' estimate seriously when he has not given real justification for his outlandish size claims for Giga. Just watch their skeletons together and you'll see why it's almost imposible for Giga to be even close to the size of T Rex.

[@Excusatores]

@@David-ni5hj gigas smallest speciment we know of currently is 8.8 tons and dan folkes pretty much explained in his blog post How he got the biggest giga up to 10.4 tons

[@David-ni5hj]

@@Excusatores Dan Folkes' estimate got precisely criticized because he didn't provide enough arguments for his Giga's sizes. 8.8 Tons is already pretty big for a Giga, let alone 10.4 Tons. Just look at their skeletons, it would be incredibly hard for skinny Giga to be as heavy as bulky T Rex.

[@Appleblade]

LOL... Bertha is a great name for the biggest of anything. Hope it pans out.

[@TheVividen]

So do I!

[@Doomguyhunter1]

I feel like with every year or every few months, that "T.rex could possibly reach 15 tonnes" thing seems, more possible?

[@TheVividen]

I've got to agree with you there. I mean, with the error range of allometry + accounting for volumetrics being more accurate the absolute top max weight for Cope is just shy of 15 tonnes. I think the 12-tonne range is more accurate, but it goes to show we're getting closer and closer to the theoretical max size!

[@David-ni5hj]

Maybe for the top larger T Rex specimens, it shouldn't be too far fetched. Unless their bone and muscle density is much higher than expected...

[@AgroAcro]

There probably were, but they were just so rare we will probably never find one unfortunately.

[@Doomguyhunter1]

@@TheVividen I have a feeling that eventually you're probably going to have to make a video called "the tyrant lizard god" when we eventually find a specimen even bigger than Bertha or Cope.

[@hafizurrahman1006]

15 tons probably existed in your dreams. When biggest T rex Scotty is 10.4 tons & average T rexes are 6-8 tons. Copium is just fragmentary & it's femur is shorter than Scotty meaning Copium's more reliable size is not more than 9.5 tons

[@celestial5236]

Whats crazy is the cope likely if anything just represents slight above average. The chances of digging up trexs with more than 3 standard deviations of the mean becomes exceedingly rare. The higher your zscore the more rare.

[@AgroAcro]

Yeah, there almost certainly were T.rex that were more than 15 tons. I really hope we are lucky enough to find one someday

[@jkjk7423]

Precisely. Considering that he's part of a sample size of 30+ amongst 1.7 billion Rexes that lived on earth, he most likely wasn't even a freakishly colossal specimen. Not even close

[@jkjk7423]

Copium Rex indeed.

[@TheVividen]

It's Cope's world and we're just living in it

[@majungabunga]

@@TheVividen Does this mean that triceratops could also grow bigger? The highest trike estimates I’ve seen are around 11 tons.

[@prasanth2601]

@@TheVividen Off the topic, remember your video on Aust collosus 2 years ago? You said it's double the size of blue. Are there any updates regarding that Or it's just another speculation like P-collosus

[@TheVividen]

@@majungabunga I would be very surprised if Triceratops didn't get bigger than that. Intraspecific size variation in reptiles is pretty insane.

[@TheVividen]

@@prasanth2601 Sadly no peer-reviewed updates. Dean Lomax said that we'd get a redescription of the bones soon, but that was back in April and I haven't heard a peep since then. As soon as new info is out, though, you bet I'll be covering it

[@mailstorminurbox]

Imagine the bite force on that thing!

[@rodrigopinto6676]

It’s a monstrously force

[@erikbritz8095]

I was about to lay some calcs down when you tackled that, its interesting how we all know there is longer theropods but none that are heavier or more advanced then T rex.

[@Akaryusan]

this beast must have been something in its age the most powerful predator to ever exist, the true king of beasts

[@rodrigopinto6676]

Exactly

[@AgroAcro]

Nanuqsaurus pfp, nice.

[@xatti302]

most powerful predator ever? bruh this pussy aint shit it would get bitten in half by MegaloDONG. and probably get slapped by the DONG in the process

[@t-r-e-x452]

Goes to show that with every new discovery, T. rex becomes more and more of an edgelord.

[@travisbishop782]

And the poor Spinosaurus becomes more and more of the Cretaceous version of the platypus.

[@travisbishop782]

@@Kfruistik That makes it so much worse!

[@travisbishop782]

@@Kfruistik no, no. I've had been chased by geese before as well. I completely understand.

[@Worldsfastestrodent]

I clicked faster then my brain could think

[@TheVividen]

Ultra Instinct kicks in

[@antoniocenteno1483]

JP in 1993: The T Rex was over 13 mts long and 12 tons in weight Paleo comunitie 1993: That´s exagerated. Paleo Comunnitie 2023:... well, it actually was over 13 mts lond and weighed 12 tons, but it had lips JP: I AM CANON

[@MonsterZilla452]

Your the guy of 90s . You seen how Paleo community was at 90s. Giganotosaurus was the biggest theropod in 90s . Spinosaurus in 2000s & Tyrannosaurus in modern days

[@francissemyon7971]

The JP T. rex never was stated, either in promotional material or the animatronic weight, to weigh 12 t. JP T. rex is athletic, 2023 T. rex is a tank.

[@CMiY0]

@@francissemyon7971JP Trex also can’t see people if they stand still lol.

[@antoniocenteno1483]

@@francissemyon7971 Actually it was, but you have to really, really dig in. The script of the movie reads for a 45 foot T rex, the book is 50 btw.

[@francissemyon7971]

@@antoniocenteno1483 The only mention of body length ever mentioned in the books was 40 feet, and the weight 8 tons in the first, 10 tons in the second. The JP T. rex is 90's style, slim.

[@eddymercan7487]

Exciting news all around, hope they find some more well-preserved Charcarodontosaurid megatheropods soon though

[@user-ow5ro6fk5w]

Giga fans finds out that there is a bigger T.rex than Scotty 💀💀

[@drakonos79]

they aren't even big mad, they giga mad!

[@user-ow5ro6fk5w]

@@drakonos79 more lol like giga Chad

[@SaffronicSaffron]

I can't cope with this guys size. Get it. 😂

[@vinniedurrant]

Makes me wonder why the other fragments wern't measured, surely that would be a good way to get a insight into it's body type.

[@9199aa]

Imagine to physically need to kill bigger and badder things just to be able to not starve to death. T rex is really the baddest

[@baddragon7057]

T-Rex is the Goku to Spinosaurus Freza

[@jacksborns3414]

T rex keeping it's crown as the king it seems

[@anasalsalmy4133]

A few years later and we'll discover a rex that's as big as a sauropod or smth like that

[@marblerun9710]

Just remembered celeste apparently 13.5m long but its weight hasn't been confirmed so i could be a contender

[@recap62]

I wonder of how strong the biteforce of Cope is?

[@Forestguardian]

I will trust this infomation once Ben. G Thomas talk about it.

[@beedrillbot121]

Tyrannosaurus Rex is so much more ridiculously powerful than any other large theropod it’s not even funny. I also just would like to say thank you for making that mega theropod video recently since I started looking into the stuff you listed as potentially new information about Saurophaganax. It has led me down a rabbit hole of learning that the current largest Saurophaganax fossil could possibly have been both 10 tons and the species is potentially a basal Charcharadontosaur. Which I found to be very interesting the multiple different blogs had given for their reasoning if these different interpretations. Also I was curious if you knew about the Portland Formation Neo Theropod that was described in September of 2021, that only half of the hip of the fossil was discovered. Using the hip they incurred that it was similar to Dilophosaurus and Cryolophosaurus, but it’s hip’s bone was thicker than both of them and it was larger than them, with the specimen potentially 9.1 meters long. Additionally there are footprints in the surrounding formations and the Portland formation that are estimated to reach up to 8.5 - 9 meters long. I just found it neat that there is such a large dinosaur just walking around the East Coast just 1 million years after the Triassic - Jurassic Mass Extinction.

[@spinosaurussp]

T Rex is a scavenger not hunter. Don't know how to kill prey.

[@antoniocenteno1483]

@@spinosaurussp My dude, 2001 called, they want their wrong studies back

[@beedrillbot121]

@@spinosaurussp Allosaurus, Torvosaurus, and Saurophaganax were just scavengers. The only thing hunting stuff in the Morrison was Ceratosaurus and Marshosaurus. Ceratosaurus is the primary carnivore of stegosaurs and diplodocus. Source: just trust me bro.

[@lazyfosil6061]

​@@beedrillbot121and allosaurus only preyed on fish!

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@spinosaurussp😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂”scavenger” in your ass…

[@GeoganTuard]

Trex is strongest theropord has ever lived

[@rodrigopinto6676]

True

[@abdulazizrex]

I’ve never clicked on something so fast!

[@the_wock_man]

Where can I find an article related to the new discovery?

[@ferociousrazordino3581]

The specimen bertha has a femur thicker than scotty, though this is not enough to confirm its larger, there are other, smaller rexes with thick femurs aswell. The holotype femur is thicker than stan's, but stan is the larger animal

[@antoniocenteno1483]

I think the difference with this one is the amount of extra thickness is just too much, even wit smaller estimation would exceed both sue and scotty. 580,590 vs 630, 630!!

[@jessehutchings]

The facts: T Rex was a beast

[@rodrigopinto6676]

The true power of Mother Nature.!

[@David-ni5hj]

Just here to remind everyone that we shouldn't take Dan Folkes' estimate for Giga seriously since he never provided real justification for his outlandish size claims. Just watch their skeletons together and you'll see why it's almost imposible for Giga to be even close to the size of T Rex.

[@oliyes406]

^ this right here

[@spinosaurussp]

🤡🤡💀

[@spinosaurussp]

Sizes from paleontologists Giganotosaurus- 10.5 tonnes T Rex - 10.4 tonnes Copium & Bertha are just fragments so should be taken with a grain of salt. Giganotosaurus is the biggest theropod

[@oliyes406]

@@spinosaurussp Not even Dan Folkes said Giga was 10.5, Dentary is an unreliable specimen, infact it has less material than Copium so where do you get your absurd sources from?

[@Tyrannosaurus_rex.]

​@@oliyes406Yeah, exactly. In terms of Giga a partial dentary is less than 1 percent of a skeleton lol.

[@danielkorladis7869]

It's fitting that so many Tyrannosaurs are from a place called Hell Creek

[@karimmohamed2891]

I hope we can find a complete 14 meters long and 4 meters tall T Rex fossil

[@MonsterZilla452]

Nice Copium Rex 🔥

[@The_PokeSaurus]

I've actually visited the Black Hills Institute early this year. They are a pretty good place.

[@TheVividen]

Jealous

[@AgroAcro]

I'm jealous. I've never seen a T.rex fossil in person. I went to Chicago on a school trip but unfortunately we didn't see Sue, we went to another museum that only had stupid things like rockets.

[@The_PokeSaurus]

@@AgroAcro You poor thing. No seriously, that's sad.

[@Doomguyhunter1]

​@@AgroAcro I saw Stan earlier this year, and damn, you just don't realize how big T.rex was before you see a skeleton, it was extremely impressive.

[@AgroAcro]

@@Doomguyhunter1 Stan is also a relatively small T.rex, so others would be even bigger.

[@ZeFroz3n0ne907]

So, he was well over 43 ft long and about 20,000 lbs give or take a ton. Holy crap that would be terrifying.

[@rodrigopinto6676]

Exactly

[@mattrodriguez476]

You can truly imagine the goldfish concept here. If a Rex ate more and had a stable life they must have grown massive. Their environment truly effected them. This guy is indominus size imagine now how big the Rex can truly get and not just the Rex , imagine the sauropods!?

[@bikelifenezha3061]

can you imagine a more than 13 Meter long creature with 12 inch teeth sprinting after you?!

[@hugomas5207]

Podrías fácilmente escapar de ella.

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@hugomas5207no😂

[@hugomas5207]

@@rodrigopinto6676 Bueno. Un animal de de 12T creó que muy rápido no va ser. Haunque si acojona ría bastante ver a uno cargando asía ti mientras rompe todo lo que hay a su pasó. (Y bueno también es de mencionar el porque en primer lugar un Rex te perseguiría si simplemente no somos buenas presas para el)

[@drakonos79]

and the fact that it will not lose you because of the uber senses of smell, sight, and sound. Not the mention, you wouldn't hear it because it doesn't roar, but would feel it, because of the padded feet it ran on. Almost like a phantasm.

[@Lamborlobator]

W Video, common Tyrannosaurus rex W (but the comment section hurts my eyes)

[@oliyes406]

fr😭😭😭

[@TheVividen]

Same

[@markwilson4052]

Now there's this earlier , Campanian/Maastrichtian monster from further south ( 5-7m years earlier) .

[@toonrex2806]

Y’know what would be funny? If Cope Rex found a home at the Yale Peabody Museum which the place where his namesakes rival, Othniel Charles Marsh was a professor at.

[@lordcooler8160]

Something worth noting, the listed figures show that while ED Cope has a wider femur than Scotty, its actually slightly shorter, so ED Cope was probably a slightly shorter animal in terms of overall length (the correlation between femur and overall body length is pretty strong), and consequently may not have outweighed Scotty by as much as estimated because length effects overall mass too (square cube law). Another interesting thing I see is that according to this chart Stan has the longest femur of all the specimens at 1350 mm, this suggests that Stan might actually be the longest T.rex (though given that it was a relatively skinny specimen it certainly wasn't the heaviest), the latest estimates for Stan that I've seen give it a length of 11.78 Meters, but this is based on a femur length of 1280 mm, if Stans femur is truly 1350 mm than the former is definitely an underestimation of overall length. Anyone know why is there such a discrepancy with this specimen? Has Stan received a proper description?

[@dino_drawings]

Tyrannosaurus had proportionally longer legs when younger, so maybe it had something to do with that?

[@lordcooler8160]

True, but the overall length would still be higher in adults, so if Stan has a 135 cm femur, then it has the longest legs overall, and would have one of the longest bodies (if not the longest). Some of the figures in the chart make me a bit skeptical though, according to this chart Trix is one of the smaller adult specimens even though all media described it as near Sue sized. It also includes measurements for Samson which is not a specimen thats accessible to verify these measurements. @@dino_drawings

[@Super-Masterpiece34]

The correlation between femur length and total length has been overestimated. especially given the wide disparity in the ratio of leg length between different types of theropod dinosaurs, and even in Tyrannosaurus Rex, the relationship between femur length and body length is often skewed. And the standard for measuring femur length in this table may not be consistent. It did not specify the measurement criteria separately. Stan's femur is also not the longest, 135cm is the largest version of all measurements, sue has had a larger version than 135cm.there are many different standards for measuring the length of the femur, measuring it at different positions may result in different measurement results. we don't know exactly where Paul measured the length of the femur. Taking Sue as an example, there are many different versions of Sue's femur length, as Sue's femur has been measured by many different paleontologists. 132cm is measured to the greater trochanter of the femur, Larson's 134cm is measured to the lesser tubercle of the femur, and the measurement to the femoral head is approximately 140cm. But the measurement of femoral circumference is relatively uniform, for example, Sue's femoral circumference has always been relatively uniform at 580mm.Referring to the Trix measured by Paul, the 117cm femur length has a circumference of 530mm.The total length of Trix is likely to be larger than Stan. Perhaps his measurement method may lead to a shorter length. Or Trix is an individual with a relatively short femur. Cope also has an intact tibia. In the image, the tibia and femur are placed side by side, and judging from the image, the tibia of Cope is definitely long, at least no shorter than 120cm. This also makes her tibia longer than sue (120cm)

[@lordcooler8160]

Well then with all due respect to whomever put that chart together, its not very useful data unless all the specimens were measured consistently between each other. Otherwise its very confusing. @@Super-Masterpiece34

[@dino_drawings]

@@lordcooler8160 I believe that may be because trip may be a so call “gracile morph”, but that has been put up to question, so it’s a bit hard to know. And yes, one of the reasons the tyrannosaurus split paper got a lot of criticism was because it used specimen that’s not accessible to study.

[@fenekku.kitsune]

They really told Scotty to cope

[@Jimmycoolboyepic]

This guy would be the main antagonist of the Cretaceous Period.

[@readingallowed559]

Scaled from Sue and got 13.12m length for Scotty. May be a better estimate as most estimates before Dan Folkes gave 13m

[@chrisrandom1404]

So my theory may be correct. 40ft and 10 tonnes were more than likely not the upper reach of T Rex but rather the AVERAGE.

[@iwonder1893]

Sorry 2 break it to you but your theory is probably incorrect

[@chrisrandom1404]

@iwonder1893 we have multiple specimens approaching or reaching those sizes. Either we're really lucky and keep finding exceptional examples, or that is the average. It's not out of the realm of possibilities.

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@iwonder1893t rex=hater 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@dino_drawings]

Probably not the average. Unless we find multiple specimen that’s 10+ ton and no

[@rodrigopinto6676]

@@dino_drawings wrong T. rex average 9 tons