A Moe Norman swing secret that has NEVER been revealed before

[@bruceparrett8805]

Thank you so much for your analysis, I’ve been learning the more normal swing since Covid and I’ve been working on the very move you’ve discovered the last week. It is definitely giving me the feeling of greatness.

[@Ericksonbellgolf]

he did talk about his body dropping. He said I'm going down as I'm coming back.

[@duchas]

in your 25:52 example, probably you dont have the lateral tilt to the right moe used, see how we cannot see your left arm, like moe. Maybe try it again?Thank you for this.

[@tuncan3015]

Brillant analysis; The Corey Connors tour pro who just won Valero Texas open, now in Masters also rotates later if you watch carefully. He hits the ball so nice and straight. Thanks for the Moe swing secrets analysis; I've been a huge Moe fan for 2 decades. !!!

[@segaboy128]

Great video! Thank u for sharing this theory. I tried it at the driving range and got great results!!

[@SurprizedDaily]

I've heard several videos where Moe indeed does describe himself dropping into his downswing and forward leg as he was actually still finishing his back-swing.....says it many times how his drop was as if he was setting down and when he was young he said he used to practice that setting move and stay in it for as long as he could to train his muscles! Heard him on Todd Graves most recent video of Moe, he actually says something along the lines of, "yeah just like as I'm about to set on a toilet, then he'd just set there, to train his muscles"

[@bruceparrett8805]

Yes!!! I heard him say, “like I’m taking a shit”, 😂😂

[@DM-3956]

It was also the fact of having a side tilt and tucking the trail elbow during the rotational turn the looked and felt to Moe like a vertical drop. Check that out in your stop action vids.

[@CDT00016]

Moe norman student and anyone else..moe braced his A frame with a crease and folded over that crease with his left side when you get to the Abbreviated back swing top that crease makes a move at the ball or towards the braced left side..the crease movement at the ball drops the club and then the shoulders and arms and slightly behind and though all cause and effect..dont have to worry about the slot, your on plane at address...THANK YOU MR NORMAN

[@briandavidedwards5545]

I`m glad I caught this Video.I always thought Moes drop meant the arms thus creating an in to out swing with a flatter plane. I kept my head still and and just dropped the arms and it was a shocking mess.I will revisit the idea and see how it goes

[@msherer260]

I had a few lessons from a teaching pro that worked with Moe (and Todd Graves) for "Natural Golf". Unlike Graves he teaches a single plane swing that incorporates more of the students natural ten-dances, grip for sure and desired ball flight etc. He told us that Moe had such a repeatable swing using every thing that worked for him simple. He also told us Moe could NOT explain to you what he did and ALWAYS had a different reason each week why his swing worked so well. One thing was for sure he could, like Moe, hit the straightest shots over and over you ever saw. And as everyone was impressed with his ball striking he would always turn to us and say "and you still have to make the putt".

[@mariooo88]

I think the real secret of Moe's consistency is his timing and his tempo, as well as an extremely solid pivot in the lower to mid body.

[@pappaflammyboi5799]

​@@mariooo88Maybe, but I personally believe the magic of Moe's swing lies in the 12 million+ balls he struck during his lifetime. If you hit a million balls between the ages of 12 and 18, you're likely going to make it work eventually. I don't think there's a soul alive today, including pros, that have struck anywhere near that number of golf balls. Moe bled and scarred himself for that swing. He paid dearly for it. There are pictures of his hands. The scar tissue is tremendous. Are you willing to sacrifice that much for one sport to the exclusion of all else in your life to achieve that goal? I know I won't. I don't even know if I could.

[@illrich]

I'd really like to hear your analysis of Moe Norman's shallowing move there's just something about it that's so unique to him

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

He told Craig Shankland what he did in the famous 1994 video for the PGA, which was vertically drop as low as possible, which actually was his lunge move that was substantial in his youth. No one dropped into his legs more than Moe.

[@jerryinsc]

@@theamateurgolfersdilemma72 That's a good video that Shankland did with Moe but you have to be careful about watching Moe in it because he over exaggerates everything so much when demonstrating his moves. I think it's pretty obvious to most people but maybe some beginners might take what he shows to heart and do those same over exaggerations themselves when trying to learn.

[@HolyGrailOfGolf]

Thanks for the shout out!

[@paulie7775]

His vertical drop and horizontal tug that he referred to was in his wrists and hands getting the club where it needed to be. It is true he did drop, but he was referring to his hands getting into position.

[@davidmcbridethegolfinggame3359]

Hey David, your videos resonated with me recently. So I bought your book. My last two practices i experimented with raising my hands in the set up. I think it had the side effect of forcing me to set up further like you suggest. I was getting some interesting results. I had a lesson back in January and the pro filmed my swing. Front on and down the line. I do indeed lift my head but I kind of do a Quasimodo and I also stay on my left heel. The videos are from before my experiments. So I am looking forward to reading your book. However I had an idea for a video for you. I could send you my swing videos and you could use it as an example of an amateur and show what you would suggest I change in the set up. FYI I am a 20 handicap and have broken 90 several times last season. I like your videos so much because you rally point out how much dogma and shame comes with playing and swinging the club differently then the taught “tradition”.

[@ricardo3773]

Have you done a similar video of moe from his 2001 private club exhibition. He seems to talk about alot of his late changes in his swing

[@philwells2920]

I'm liking this so far. 5:45 is wrong. Moe said everything dropped on the vertical drop, not just his hands. I really dont like this discrepancy, but I'll continue watching....

[@philwells2920]

Damn, 6:23 is wrong, too. Moe intentionally kept his hands from going too far behind him. It wasn't that he couldn't have them go farther. He made this clear in that PGA video I've seen a thousand times.

[@philwells2920]

More discrepancies, but I like a lot that's in here. The lines are cool. Do it with face on as well! Let's see that lateral move defined.

[@philwells2920]

Not sure if you favor the passive arms or not. They're not for me, and I'm young and extremely flexible. It's about accurate, powerful leverage, not a longer, weaker, sloppier hand travel distance.

[@bobbys4327]

Why is the above image of Moe not in the fairway?

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

There are no videos of Moe in the fairway as far as I know. But it makes no difference - his move was the same no matter where he was.

[@bobt5778]

Ha I get it! I thought he never missed a fairway.

[@tuncan3015]

He liked to hit range practice balls in shady areas and also out of the way areas free from distractions, over-zealous onlookers and crowds.

[@bobt5778]

@@tuncan3015 ok, yeah that sounds like him

[@rangepro]

great presentation!! thank you!

[@mikebirnie6381]

For every action there's and equal and opposite reaction...now it makes sence...I stand up too early from flexed knees...I will try this and report back

[@AaronSmithBets]

Great video

[@waqarghulam3548]

Left knee outside of left foot is very important and very hard to do

[@pappaflammyboi5799]

You're only missing one, maybe two components. The main one was Moe tilted at address somewhere between 15° to 25°, (depending on the club) which I believe contributed to him squatting through the swing on the downswing when his lagging leg went from straight to bent and slightly rotated, as it followed his torso through the rotation. This forces him to drop his body height naturally. To do otherwise would probably cause injury. He mentions this squatting down move in several videos, and you can obviously tell he does it on the rear view as well as front view of videos of him. Of course Moe was a horrible teacher, but most golf instructors are. Their words have subjective meaning, or are confusing without context, change from person-to-person, and don't align with the biomechanics of the human anatomy.

[@duchas]

Could you explain lateral launch of Moe? Im really tring to imitate him, without much success, still manage to go to 26HDP within a year of playing, but definetly not looking like moe still.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

I cannot - you need to find out what move suits you the best. Moe's move may not suit you.

[@duchas]

@@theamateurgolfersdilemma72 I Will give It a little more time, I think having a heavy head could help me with the movements of Moe, and He used heavy heads and E3 clubs

[@oldtownblues]

That is why most golfers develop back problems because your L4/L5 is going up and your head is going down creating compression. Moe hips and head drop together creating no compression

[@DunnGolfing]

Straight legs to bent legs only thing you need to know.

[@duchas]

"shitting position" as moe norman said. then the vertical drop comes easily

[@hillbilly4christ638]

Moe showed this a number of times and if you think about it he makes sense. Basically, Moe simplified the swing and the process.

[@itsnotokgolf]

i paused the video at 0:46 ................. I can tell you 100% what it is................. its "the reconnection of the back elbow to the body"

[@itsnotokgolf]

k so i was kinda wrong lmao, but a little right too... in that i think these two feelings go hand in hand, from the top of my backswing, bending knees and reconnecting the back elbow at the same time and then its like the rotation and wrist release team up together to hit the ball

[@TheWedgeWizard]

Probably the most accurate video showing how Moe actually moved through his swing. Guys like graves are generally way off and only interested in scamming people who don’t know anything for money while knowing next to nothing about moe’s swing or swing dynamics in general, he just uses the same simple concepts over and over with trigger words like “scientifically proven” while spreading lies about other instruction, that’s why he hasn’t taught any decent players, just old guys trying to break 80 and total beginners. Or why he can’t actually teach anyone to play good golf, he just says “copy the model and you’ll play good” giving zero reasoning or explanation for anything. I don’t use or want a “single plane” swing but watch all golf related content. Also I like how you compared Moe to a hand full of different swing styles. Good stuff. It’s funny people don’t realize that some people are naturally more athletic and have good hand eye coordination, I could play scratch golf with any swing and a little practice, a big part of that is starting when I was very young so solid ball striking is simple, plus I’ve hit multiple millions of balls and spend thousands and thousands of hours practicing. That’s the secret, not simply copying positions. Positions Help, but the precision of hitting exactly the same spot every time has to be earned, you can have a technically perfect swing and hit it all over the club face and the course. And of course mentality is probably the biggest factor in tournament golf and scoring. Moe knew you can’t just simply teach a game, you have to go get it.

[@jcee6886]

Truth. I teach guitar and vocals, nothing substitutes for constant practice and time.

[@patricktraynor7628]

Moe said “buckle, sit,bump,slide”

[@billygraham5589]

Funny that Moe Norman is set up behind a bunker under a tree.

[@lesoleebayful]

Do you give online lessons?

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

I do not ... EA Tischler is the best teacher in my opinion. Very scientific. He is at Olympia Fields south of Chicago

[@snakesvt]

As a graves golf student and moe norman single plain swing user I know Moe’s swing very well. I can tell with 100% certainty. We do not rotate after hitting the ball. We have full hip rotation prior to impact. The key is keeping your back foot planted at impact and a flexed lead knee with Moe’s swing. The “vertical drop” comes from hip and torso rotation. Our arms are just along for the ride at that point. Once we hit our body limits with hip rotation and “sit” into the flexed lead knee. the arms let go like a whip.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

You would be completely wrong about the drop - hip and torso rotation are in the transverse plane, which is horizontal to the ground. Moe dropped his hips from a higher transverse plane to a lower transverse plane, which is a function of hip flexion, NOT hip rotation as illustrated with PICTURES in the video. AND Moe's hips were NOT facing the target at impact, not even close as illustrated in this video. After he struck the ball, then his hips rotated to the target.

[@snakesvt]

@@theamateurgolfersdilemma72 no sir I’m not. Because we start with 15-17° of side bend at address as we start our hip and torso rotation the club drops into the “slot”. What you don’t understand about Moe’s swing is the limitations. Because we hit into the flexed lead knee and trail foot stays down at impact there is a rotational limit to the hips. After impact is when we “stand up” and hips can then open and face the target. But that is way after the ball is gone. Moe’s swing is a system. If you don’t use all the parts it’s pointless. Todd Graves know more about Moe’s swing then anyone on the planet.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

@@snakesvt Even pictures cannot overcome Asch Conformity Syndrome.

[@raynman67]

@@snakesvt Since Moe taught Todd his swing, then I would say your Correct.

[@lookmil107]

Then you must be a gigantic idiot yourself, because Toddie and Timmie Graves are the two biggest conmen within the golf instruction business. Only desperate naive fools would not recognize the Graves Clown Show for what it truly is. Why don’t Toddie or Timmie ever show their full swings as recorded using a digital swing tracing device as many teaching pros use? Because this swing tracer device would immediately show that both Toddie and Timmie do not swing on anything close to a “single plane,” nor do any of their idiot students. The Graves Brothers are all about making money off the name Moe Norman…..that’s it-the end.

[@bobt5778]

I always felt Moe Norman's setup and body motions were created by his mental image of keeping the clubface moving square to the target line longer than anyone else (which was something he claimed he did). A swinging motion is circular and any straight line travel of the clubhead is impossible. His clubface was square only momentarily (at impact) like everyone else's. Doesn't mean he wasn't a great player of course!

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

I think his drop/lateral lunge move keeps club head square vs standard rotation movement.

[@jerryinsc]

@bobt5778 You are absolutely correct. Moe claimed to have kept the clubface pointing down the target line for something like 36" after contact but video shows that to be grossly incorrect. Moe said it because that's what he felt he was doing but no golf swing can produce this. That's the danger of watching Moe and listening to him. He over exaggerates things when showing them and describing them because that's what he feels like he is doing, not what he is actually doing.

[@rowdyroddy519]

Many people have done many of the things Moe did, before and after his career. The Single plane... the extended legs.. vertical drop... etc. Yet nobody hits it as straight and consistent as he did, using those things..... But there is one thing he did that I have never seen anyone else do. That is in his right foot action. He keeps his right heel down well after impact. Longer than anyone else I have ever seen. I teach this to my students, with outstanding results. I also use this right heel down action, and hit the ball straight as a laser. This IS Moe's key to accuracy. You don't have to keep it down as long as Moe did... only until impact, and then you can come up on the toe. "Keep your trail heel down, and roll on the instep, until impact."

[@mariooo88]

Interesting. I also notice my striking is very solid when I mind about keeping my right leg and foot completely solid. I think the reason of it is weight balance stability. Keeping our right foot on ground makes sure we don't shift weight and lose balance\pivot.

[@hillbilly4christ638]

Everything Moe did was about carrying through the ball toward the pin. A lot of players today get their wrists involved on the downswing and the club is on an arc and not a plane. His lateral movement puts the face on a plane. Yes, there is an arc, but at impact it is a plane with the lateral move. I hope that makes sense.

[@northotagogolf]

Another thing I've seen with Moe's set-up is the almost exact right angle his club shaft makes with his spine which is not the case with pretty much all other golfers. He was unique all right!

[@davidregan8155]

Dropping swing interesting

[@atfinthehouse8631]

Body changes with age. Swings would have to change, but adhering to the basic principles. Allowed consistency. Of course hitting 500-1000 golf balls daily didn’t hurt. In order to do that kind of volume hitting, the recreation of the least complicated easiest, less stressful on the body has to evolve.

[@djelalhassan7631]

Great

[@davidregan8155]

PS I was Laura Davies' coach and 'biggest influence' according to her.

[@giii7599]

No such thing as spine angle. The spine is not strait. You don't want the rear center of your pelvis moving toward the ball.

[@mariooo88]

In my honest opinion, the vertical drop is a consequence, not a cause.

[@shofey]

Follow Sam Snead. You'll be better off. 84 Tour Victories. Snead wrote a book detailing exactly how to swing like him.

[@TigerisaF4g]

I think the shoulders drop because the knees and hips begin to move first. Their legs aren’t passive.

[@Elite59]

Look how far away from the ball Moe sets up, compared to the others.

[@12piecebucket]

His name was pronounced birth oly

[@jay-zeelterbilinsky3977]

Watch Sam Snead squat into the ball

[@ironsideeve2955]

Clickbait.

[@zamundalion]

So you taught us nothing new then.😮

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

NPCs are not teachable.

[@pizzipaul1]

It's videos like this why noone can play this game. Total cluelessness. I guess Moe's ball position has nothing to do with his motion? How can you compare Moe to Brooks? You think starting with the arms is what makes you come over the top? Clueless....if a person swings a baseball bat at a ball on a 3 foot tee would they EVER come over the top? Would they use gravity to start the swing? Think about it.....

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

LOL ... you are actually confused by the context of the Koepka Norman movement strategy comparison. How is that even possible?

[@AndrewDCDrummond]

It’s pretty simple, Moe’s secret, and Hogans he reckons, was the right elbow and it’s relation to the left arm/elbow - he describes it as his secret in this clinic video : kzbin.infoFOJGxGPA4vU?si=WRjBFno08q4mf8Nr. The position of the rest of his body is a reaction to trying to keep this relationship between his arms whilst standing so far away from the ball, and was much more slidy than rotational, as he wouldn’t have been able to rotate like Hogan and still reach the ball. Whereas Moe was very straight, I doubt that he could have matched todays distances as his swing was so arms dominant, whereas Hogan probably could because of the power of his transition/rotation (see his distances in the. Book "Power Golf’ and then factor in todays ball, stronger lofts, and higher engineered clubs. I wouldn’t want a swing like Moe’s as it looks too much like Trumps swing 😂

[@Shankaporomous]

Or take lessons from a teaching pro, that actually know how to teach, instead of stuffing someone else’s swing on your head. If you take a lesson and the dude or lady say, hogan, Snead, tiger, Arnold any of those pros, just get your money back. No one swing like mo, or hogan, they found ways to fix their swing faults, that means, they found a way to swing their way. So swing your swing. I got lucky that found one last month, that actually work under Hank and butch, he looks at your swing, on my case no one has ever told me my chest was close at set up, for so many years, he say we are inventing anything new, everyone is different we are going to find your swing again, Just shot 73 , with my swing not some cheap tip on you tube,

[@detroitbadboy9802]

Too wordy. Too much explanation. Just tell us in 3 steps what to do

[@hughcardiff7046]

God, get to the point

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

Sorry the free videos are not up to the standards of someone like you who does nothing but complain.

[@Tonetruk]

Todd Graves definitely teaches the laterally drop move and has been teaching it for at least 20 years now.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

No he doesn't...he teaches an arm drop. If you watch Graves he does not drop into the lateral lunge move as Norman did. This is very obvious and it is also very obvious that Norman's swing was not on a single plane...it is obvious it is stunning that people miss it.

[@billenright2788]

Apparently you've never heard of Todd Graves.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

LOL the humor never ends in golf

[@frozendivots1564]

Todd Graves swings nothing like Moe Norman.

[@lookmil107]

This video is pure nonsense. Moe Norman swung the weight of the club head-simple as that. How else could Moe Norman have achieved true ACCELERATION? If a golfer understands how to achieve true acceleration, then “ball striking” is a byproduct (or a result there of)……Moe Norman was a Percy Boomer deciple-as was Ben Hogan.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

Thank you for such unbelievable hilarity.

[@Sueezedtight]

Moe's swing has been analyzed and is perfectly emulated by Todd "Little Moe" Graves. I learned it 3 years ago and it saved my back while maintaining my 6 hdcp (6300 yd. course). The SPS (Single Plane Swing). Best golf money I ever spent. No pain, no ice and no pills, just long (235 driver carry at 70 y.o.) straight shots down the center of the fairway. :)

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

LOL ... Graves can't even do Moe's 70 year old heart disease swing like Moe.

[@Sueezedtight]

@@theamateurgolfersdilemma72 Not according to bio-metric analysis, which are facts and not just opinion...

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

@@Sueezedtight facts come with evidence . Cite the biometric evidence if available..

[@Sueezedtight]

@@theamateurgolfersdilemma72 Todd Graves covers it in several related videos , DYOR. Including a recent Golf Digest article.

[@theamateurgolfersdilemma72]

@@Sueezedtight Not even close...Graves is in the dark and so are you.