A Monday Ramble

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[@Gorbz]

In 2020, the firebrand was part of the cultists of the abyss box for blackstone fortress. The complete box cost £14. Ìn 2024, the firebrand is £21 on its own, and the rest of the cultists of the abyss can not be purchased from GW. If you want to talk gouging, Games Workshop are doint it themselves. What would have cost the equivalent of £1.80 4 years ago, now costs £21.

[@nick8566]

Just by happenstance I was browsing the chaos range last night and saw that model cost like $59 Australian. Absolutely blew my mind how a single human sized model can cost so much. Back when I was on minimum wage that would have been two and a half hours labour.

[@Gorbz]

@@nick8566 on my current wage it almost is two hours work. And it is even crazier to think that the price rises that GW have promised have not arrived yet.

[@ahjington89]

Idk what line gw needs to cross to make ppl stop defending them. Its ridiculous.

[@LiliaArmoury]

i wish i knew what line was too

[@spnked9516]

I think we've already passed that point. If I remember correctly, GW profits have been up, but their overall sales have started to slip. In all due likelihood, we'll probably continue to see a slow, but steady decline in sales as time goes on. Things will continue to get tighter for people moving forward, and cheaper alternatives are increasing becoming more accessible, so I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see GW face a reckoning in this decade.

[@xaphaniariel2797]

Putting girls in a faction apparently

[@walt_man]

$70/per 10 man guard squad seems about it.

[@elijah260]

@@spnked9516I’ve gotten to trading and recasting as alternatives. It’s easy to just trade people stuff they want after a regretting purchase. I have no regrets, and they get what they want. A win-win. I also recast because no way in God’s good name am I buying a Necron centipede from Forge World after my first mistake of buying one years back.

[@USALibertarian]

I am increasingly coming to the conclusion that the main thing that keeps people in "The Hobby" is denial.

[@Rothgar59]

Or cope, "If I just hang in there, they will fix the issues, and it will be good."

[@JelloDonatello]

Cope, denial and a good old sunk cost fallacy

[@JeffAndresWilliams]

For me, it's simply momentum. I have friends who want to get away from GW like I do, but our gaming groups don't, so it's what we keep playing.

[@pbkobold]

Proud 3D printer. So many good chaos sculpts! My hobby is better than ever. Don’t play many games, so OPR is fine enough for when I do.

[@Murgler]

I used to spend a lot of money Saturday morning, now I spend nothing.

[@IVIaskerade]

What rubs me the wrong way is that they didn't release rules for the jump pack lord two editions in a row, not even in legends, but especially come 10th's release they must have known the model was in the pipeline. It's nothing more than a cheap marketing ploy.

[@khimeraQ]

My one relief is that the two new characters are just generic models that I had kitbashed years ago. In fact, I'm thankful as my Night Lords captain can now join the battlefield once again!

[@SuperDuperHappyTime]

I'm an admitted whale, so my two cents on the Big Boxes: They're a great way to invest potential whales into build that pile of shame and turn someone who's willing to get into the game fully invested. They're terrible for New players, as it's too expensive for someone who's not committed to joining the hobby. They're terrible for veterans, who already have at least twice as much of everything but the one model. And actually, they're terrible for old whales, as we already bought another Big Box of CSM within the past 5 years, and don't need another. Putting out the one model on it's own immediately will not dissuade potential whales, but immediately serves veterans and old whales. I'm glad you brought up the building portion, because yes, the older stuff is much easier to build. They can actually fix it very quick, by labeling the sprue 1,2,3,4,5...etc and then labeling the instruction manual with the proper numbers (as opposed to now where the instruction manual is 1,2,3,4,5,etc and 2 on the sprue is sandwiched between 42, 63, and 99).

[@MrConna6]

Since when has a pile of shame meant someone is fully invested? Someone who builds, paints, and plays with a start collecting or single unit is already more invested than half the people ive met with huge piles of shame and not a single finished model

[@beanman853]

@@MrConna6 sunk cost

[@MrConna6]

@beanman853 well in that case no, its a cheap hobby compared to many things you collect and if you are more discouraged it could easily also put you off getting more

[@Pers0n97]

As someone already pointed out, "whales" don't mean anything if what they do is pilling on boxes they'll never open. They don't even increase GW sales since their printruns are always so short, the only thing they do is deprive players from boxes they could have bought.

[@Pedro1136]

I was talking about exactly this today. The new Space Marines kits are nothing on the ones they replaced. Yes the proportions are better and they have more detail but they are essentially mono pose.

[@darko-man8549]

If the lieutenant kit was multipose, multiloadout how would GW find the excuse to make 15+ different kits and charge multipose prices?

[@Marlena_M]

And don't forget the new Ork boys kit. Monopose slop and you can't even make a shoota or a slugga dedicated unit. The old kit is vastly superior.

[@piscinaiv7937]

Monopose AND still a pain to assemble.

[@14852577]

@@darko-man8549 In fairness, they did somewhat fix this and the most recent LT that isn't in the Leviathan box, is actually multi-part and has multiple options. You can choose between a Bolt Rifle, Heavy Bolt/Plasma Pistol, Power Sword, Axe, and Power Fist. It's not a *huge* improvement, but it is an improvement compared to the previous mono-pose LTs with stock options.

[@darko-man8549]

@@14852577 aye, problem is this what should have been happening. How much production capacity could have been saved if it had been a two-sprue MP kit per armour class? But, yeah, hopefully the trend improves

[@LiliaArmoury]

15:54 replying. I have a theory about why things are so overcomplicated to build it is purely to be anti compedative in a "we've designed this specifically so you can't easily swap in third party parts like you used to as we don't make money off those parts so get wrecked" this is very noticible to me with the new guard kits like the new cadians the legs and torsos are attached together in weird ways that block off using alternative legs or bodies without using a razor saw as the models are also becoming tougher to cut through

[@Lupercal6319]

Its also so that you can't get more value out of even GW products than you're "supposed to". The mark 6 space marines were the most glaring example to me. With every 20 you get the makings of 18 regular marines and two sergeants with a plasma pistiol in one hand and a sword or power claw on the other. The arm for the plasma pistol is separate from the wrist, and you actually get doubles of that arm. You also get doubles of the melee weapons for the other arm. The only thing you don't have doubles, i.e. 4 of, was the hand holding the plasma pistol itself. So, you might think, if you would like to have 4 marines per 20 with the pistol/melee weapon combo, you could just get any old hand with a bolt pistol or similar side arm from pretty much any other space marine kit you might have around and glue it to the wrist. Except no, the wrist connection is specifically designed with a very particular diagonal slant, it isn't parallel and flat. Meaning only that one gun from that one kit will fit there. You can t use the extra power swords or power claws because then the other arm will end in a stump. I understand you could get creative and try to come up with some other solution, but that doesn't change how hostile and deliberate a design decision it was.

[@spu00trb]

This channel actually has some great videos on why this is. Effectively, when you make a sprue, you can make it in a variety of ways but the cheapest and longest lasting mould is just two pieces squidged together. So everything needs to be able to be defined along the 'vectors' where the moulds move by.... Filled - Empty - Filled You can't be more fiddly than that. So you have to rotate the piece and break up the piece to get cavities etc. If you look at old models, they overcome this through simplicity in 3D geometry. You CAN build more complex moulds than this, using multiple movers which move and retract inside the piece, but with CAD tech this doesn't actually get you a better model usually, just an easier to build model. GW's big failing as a mini company is that they refuse to use the more complex moulding technology which would allow them to have easier to build models which still look good.

[@Pers0n97]

This is one of the excuse the "community" keep repeating as a mantra because they are desperate to find a "logical" answer to the question "why are they doing that?!", but if you think about it more than a second, it doesn't make ANY sens. If you are trying to use third part bits to customize your kits, you are still using GW kits as a base, they are literally not losing ANY money here. The only thing GW will (and has) archived by doing that is pushing people from just using "some 3rd party bits" to making the jump into buying 3rd party minies entirely. "But GW just hate 3rd party bits, they don't do it for the money they just want to make their system as incompatible as possible with any non GW bits"... Why? Think about it for a second, why would they care? Hell, by doing that they are also preventing themselves from releasing proper conversion kits for their own product too, they are literally cutting their nose to spite their face. No, the simple answer here is that GW is extremely, INSANELY incompetent. Simple as.

[@edrachel6251]

“I want to get away from the idea of GW being The Hobby.” This. Again and again, this!

[@michaelroth2166]

In todays "How is GW ruining WH": - Warhammer models have too many details - GW is writing bad rules, so let's demand they reduce the prices - Authors writing the books are not, in fact, the ones that should be writing the books.

[@Gridash]

Oh yeah, it's always a relief to actually paint up an older model compared to all of the tediousness of many of the new ones.

[@Marlena_M]

Macca you are absolutely right when it comes to the new minis being more of a chore. With the digital sculpting techniques its very tempting to keep adding things. Granted they look cool, but now every mini looks like it suffers from main character syndrome. Excellent for skirmish games but not if you want a whole army of them. GW doesn't seem to think of the practical side anymore; the amount of time spend on building and painting them, transporting them to a game night at your local club.

[@Pers0n97]

Trovarian made a video about that not long ago and yeah, that's a problem more and more people are waking up to. Building stuff is now painfully tedious. It got stripped off the customization part that was enjoyable, and now what you do is having to follow very closely the building guide because otherwise it would be literally impossible to figure out how the thing is supposed to be assembled. I think the most obvious case I've faced recently was the Cursed city characters. One of the guy was supposed to be build by pressing 3 different pieces against eachothers at the same time otherwise nothing would fit. This is just awful.

[@Marlena_M]

@@Pers0n97 Agreed! Trovarian's video was good.

[@quimble2177]

GW’s buggery are why I started getting stuff from Tortuga Bay. They aren’t for everyone given their scale but I like it so it works for me. I LOVE Eastern Europe and it’s lack of fucks given.

[@Pers0n97]

Their MK2 and 3 armors are amazing, look literally better than GW's.

[@cesargimenez1288]

I’ll be honest, I don’t have as many years as anybody in the hobby since I came from a South American country where you could only participate in the hobby by reading online. I joined with minis in 2020 with 9th edition, and I’m already “retired” only enjoying Horus Heresy, and for a long time I was only buying FW miniatures, my Solar is 3.5k points, but I truly don’t enjoy anything except for painting now. 40k was so toxic and competitive that I never enjoyed it. I moved from state and found a nice community around HH so now I’m learning to like it again, but since I only paint nowadays, I just get recasts now…

[@scepteredisle]

Didn't they kinda get it right for Chaos in 7th edition? Like 2 minutes before they crushed the system and replaced it with 8th? Not with Codex Chaos Space Marines, but rather the legion-specific supplements which I suspect few knew existed ? Not exactly 3.5 but still... it brought back a lot of flavour for the full 2 minutes it was on sale ....

[@doomsdayduck4479]

Yeah CSM has fun fluffy rules for all of about 5 minutes. It was such a good time.

[@jamesespinosa690]

I still remember buying that book and being so excited only for them to Squat 40k a few months later.

[@username12120]

I have the 7th ed legions supplement, it's a damn good book.

[@Watch-CaptainAlain]

I’m rather keen on Altorf syndrome. I admit I suffer from it myself, but only so far as buying the rulebooks and occasionally patroning my nearest GW shop for the manager’s sake. Agreed, the thing I despise most about current Chaos Marines is that they’re overcomplicated, and yet completely lacking in customization and theme. There’s too much trim. My Night Lords get better 10th. Ed. rules from rites of war/detachments designed for the Alpha Legion and renegade warbands. And none of them look menacing. None of the models look like thousands-year-old veterans of the long war, sustained only by spite - instead they look like creature feature monsters in mid jumpscare pose. The legions got flanderized, too, so none of that spite, that loathing, that hatred of an Imperium that abandoned them, ever really shines through. GW just treats them as ‘bad guys’.

[@KellyShorts]

Chaos space marines are a treat to build and paint. I love the possessed marines especially.

[@darko-man8549]

The white dwarf mini - I just really liked the look, was my last purchase from GW. The dread talons would have been because I wanted the demon prince, the raptors and the coven - but alas, GW printed about 3 boxes and so i didn’t get it. Ah well, time to get out to sea

[@darko-man8549]

But Macca, GW is the best minayure compsny in the world; they aren’t here to make games! Which is why they restrict models used at their listed tournaments, charge you for rules, refuse to write PDF rules, use NMNR policy It’s also why their miniatures are the least consumer friendly! You can’t expect “the best” to be consumer friendly now?

[@JennyfaninSweden]

I’ve been playing Heresy since 2015 and been in the hobby since the start of 3ed. The last 3 years 70-90% of my Heresy purchases have been from China. Last week I just bought my first starter box for “Conquest: Last Argument of Kings” from Para-Bellum. PB are actively involved in the community and the game, all rules and army rules are free, updated regularly and feedback are taken into account. It’s like night and day. My point being that, this year is the last year I buy anything from GW, no more books, miniatures or paints, I’ve given them enough.

[@amyparsons-king2309]

Trench crusade looks really awesome too.. Mordheim creator writing rules, and releasing freely for public play testing, Mike Franchina and, I believe even Mr Blanche himself doing amazing art for the setting (crusades meets Ww1) and an encouragement for converting one's own models..

[@JennyfaninSweden]

@@amyparsons-king2309 I've heard much good about TC really cool setting and art. But also that one of the devs are a raging pro trans maniac, banning people for "wrong think"

[@Remi-Toruzen]

So many points made that I’ve been trying to let go and finally sell my models after 24 years of warhammer. Haven’t played in years since 7th, was that one guy who people would only play against if I foot slogged flying Tyranid models. Didn’t care about stuff being shoveled off the table but I’d like to actually play and use tactics like the Trygon tunnel. Bought thousands of points in sisters when I realized they came out a year after they did (loved them since witch hunters in 3rd) painted and customized but never played and now they are very mid to low. Got both knight armies and never played, Soulblight and flesheaters but never played. Crap changed to fast for anyone with a job and life at least that’s my case and it’s discouraging.

[@narrakminis]

The part about physically building a Chaos army been tedious is too true! Just built a World Eaters army and after cleaning up all that trim, its genuinely got me questioning if i want to paint it all! Also which bright spark decided to put the sprue tabs on the 'balls' of the backpacks?!?! Such a pain to clean when you're doing 40 odd of them!

[@Marlena_M]

That one stupid mold line on the leg that sits between rivets or horns that's a pain in the ass to remove. Absolutely infuriating 😂😭

[@narrakminis]

@Marlena_M oh how could I forget them! The ones where you make the slightest slip and you damage the trim and remove the rivets😬 and then there's the mold lines on the skulls... why?!

[@doshutokeshi3877]

When I worked for GW, we called it "Battered wife syndrome" sorry not sorry. I ran one of the few stores that tried to maintain existing gamers and not kick them to the curb. Foolish me. Love the channel, cheers.

[@emperorpenguin5]

This channel encouraged me to look at the CSM 3.5e codex, and it's honestly stunning. Finally I can understand where the idea of subfaction rules come from, and the Iron Warriors lore got me trying to build Possessed out of Ursurax Automata.

[@RazielLordOfSecrets]

surprised you didnt mention the lord popssesor. Never had a single release, shadow spear, start collecting and now a combat patrol.

[@mark4cele7]

your rants are always solid and pretty dam accurate!

[@XX-jn8co]

The Solar Auxilia are some of the most annoying models I've built in a while. They're simply in too many pieces, building 20 lasrifle troops takes far longer than their point costs should allow for. I think when you're exceeding one part per point you need to look at whether your chaff infantry models are in too many parts. Fundamentally they're monopose anyway as otherwise the back hose doesn't mate up to the hip hosing so could the legs and body have been one part? Could the left hand have been on the left arm to help blag a slightly off arm pose? Could the shoulder pads have been on the shoulders? I don't mind the bayonets and blast charges being separate because they're options or aesthetic additions but come on, I want to be able to build a Troops choice in an afternoon.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

I only have the command squad, to compare against my old resin version. Sounds like a pain, might just use them for bits if that's how it is.

[@XX-jn8co]

@@rutgaurxi7314 They're currently in a minimum of 10 parts for a basic lasrifle trooper, 11 for some as the legs are 3 parts rather than 2. On top of that you can add 2 extra parts to the rifle and the usual belt pouches. They're not exactly hard to build except for the shoulder pads being a little fiddly but doing a production line of them is dull and takes ages, and bear in mind a fully stacked tercio is 65 dudes. That means you're gluing something like 795 parts together to build a full tercio assuming you use a bayonet and one optional part per trooper, extra if you add the vexillas etc. On a model like this I'd really want to see 5 or 6 pieces per model plus extras. Legs, torso, left arm, right arm, head then one (1) item you just couldn't do on a sprue like, say, the air pump on the back. These guys don't live very long, you want to field them in close-order so super-details are nice but for blobs I'd rather have troops that build up quick.

[@XX-jn8co]

Thinking about it I genuinely think the push towards Legiones Auxilia and fielding these as small allied forces is both to sell more of them and GW realising people are going to be exhausted by the end of building the battlegroup.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

@@XX-jn8co Ouch, think I will just leave new ones as bits in the bits box, and use them where necessary on my old command section. But I am in no rush to do them, I currently have a lot of things on my plate as is, so they can wait. Edited.

[@Traven158]

I've found for Solar Auxilia, you have to paint in Sub Assembly if you want to paint a model in under 4 hours and paint something that's not grey/steel.

[@LongWarEnjoyer]

never apologize for tangents, us old subscribers look forward to them.

[@iiJDSii]

As a 40k player, I'm really pissed off with the "every 3 months" points updates, and the push to make 40k an e-sport in general. It just encourages so much meta chasing, and it actually does very little for balance. Look at the new codexes coming out - wildly different power levels, written by seemingly different studios entirely. If you want to keep up and have a decent army, you need to change what you're playing every 3 months and that's incredibly frustrating. But clearly works in their favor. Competitive nonsense trickles down to the majority of 40k players, from what I've seen, so it's not an isolated problem.

[@RobotTanuki]

On the miniature building chore. I was building three different kits from different era: the Ork Stormboyz, the Dire Avengers, and the new Dark Reapers. I had the most fun building the Ork Stormboyz, trying out different combinations of bitz and also matching the legs, arms and heads any way I like, and there are tons of options! Dire Avengers was also easy to build, if a bit lower on customisability. The Dark Reapers on the other hand is an ABSOLUTE CHORE to build. Each Reaper has, what, 12 pieces? I kid you not, the left toe glues to the left leg, then the left leg glues to the pelvis. The pelvis connects to the right leg, then the pelvis connects to the torso. The weapon arms are in 4 different pieces or something and it just gets TIRING. And the hunt for the piece number is fantastic, especially when the instructions frequently MISLABEL the parts number. Modern GW monopose plastic models are crap, and I don't understand how people defend it.

[@chaosisbaeos]

I miss 3rd edition chaos. It was the zenith of warhammer for me.

[@Pers0n97]

100%. Both in lore, game and hobby, 3rd was peak.

[@vostroyanfirstborn9834]

Pretty much describing my experience in the middle section. Early 30s, kids, time poor. Spent 9th painting and finishing my Necrons and Vostroyan army, and 10th has come along and fucked the armies just as I finished them off.

[@CaptainComatose]

Still have an old Jump Pack Lord. Just have to alter one of the arms, the other one I already made into a power fist.

[@ntp5257]

One kid and another on the way. I find that I'm often choosing between working out or painting for an hour or two. At least I don't have to worry about rules changes because I run OPR.

[@apocalypsenow6559]

I 3d print everything. Have a good buddy, we play 5th ed rules. I play the 3.5 chaos codex against his Dark angels. And our next game is to see how well HH 2.0 armies play with 5th rules. We will adjust as needed. Havnt needed GW since 8th ed madness.

[@warhounds]

chaos marine fan since 2008. last purchase was dark spear or something like that, thought the redesign was cool and thought the new kit would be multipose. got bamboozled and lied by the company so out of selfrespect didnt buy any minis from them since then

[@terrysaunders7107]

Anything over 100 USD needs to be amazing to justify the cost. I found the decision not to buy these big garbage bins fairly easy to pass on when they are filled with useless bloat. It does mean I'm not the target demographic for large buys. I also don't have a dozen or so of unopened boxes.

[@braedenstrahan438]

Great video 👍, a big feeling I've had with hobby since trying to restart it with 8 edition

[@Aaron-io8vw]

Oh, agree completely on how tedious building is. Miss the days of the old dark Angel veteran sqaud/fallen kit. The sprue had all the bits for each model right next to the ones for that model . Nowadays take the apr Orimaris Lieutenant from last year the back part of the chest absinthe front part of the chest are in different sprues.

[@bennconner1195]

I am getting into the old world and building the older kits reminded me how much a preferred them. I like Center piece models to be more detailed but not the rank a file troops.

[@Silink12]

13:26 You are describing detail creep. It's a real issue no one is talking about with gw kits. The kits are getting harder to build and paint.

[@Spacefrisian]

I dont feel the need to buy either of these boxes. Heck they have made a Word Bearers detachment that is nothing like Word Bearers.

[@knoxminis1211]

Your example of the character getting killed reminds me of my new Heresy Kratos tank getting popped as it came in from reserves via a reaction and it never even got a shot off. Same for my Xiphon. EDIT: This is of course very true for 40K as well.

[@pads-zr9ln]

Ive just built the new basalisk, thr interior detail is fantastic, what a waste of time to build becasue im not painting that, meanwhile the top hatch has a gap a hive tyrant could get in from the closed position

[@friendlyneighbourhoodsunwheel]

What I did to get some jump lord is take store credit but a pack of raptors and get some unbuilt Legionaries and kitbash 3 and make another 2 for friends for a small fee and we are set. Then there is 3d printing and 3rd party bits.

[@judgecohen1373]

I had Aragon the King killed by a giant spider! Curse you SNEAKY SPIDER!!!

[@benzelrhomb]

I for one welcome Ultimate Final Form - FATHER MACA!

[@anthonylulham3473]

I'm waiting for the salty grandfather macca arc. It'll be a real grizzled time, salt white beard too. Congrats to Macca tho!

[@LiliaArmoury]

what needs to happen for gw to change their practices at this point is either a massive loss period from a united customer base or a mountains of lawsuits for loss of enjoyment and stunts like releasing a codex 6 months or less before a new edition that'll brick it as a game book, but for that to happen the heavy whales with too much money need to be offsided and they are asleep to what gw's doing because they have the money to not care. or we need famous people like cavil to actually publicly infront of the media, walk away from working with them and clearly and sicintly state that "they cannot work with a company that mistreats it's customer base the way gw does! that between unreasonable price hiking and badly written rules they cannot justify working for them was fans of the hobbies"

[@Hopekuma]

Agreed! I was coming back to the hobby, I love Eldar, so I started buying my models, finally got my Codex when it dropped, and boom within months it's literally useless to build an army list with because 10th edition dropped...

[@Pers0n97]

GW is burning every single types of consumers right now. The hobbyist are burnt by the awful monopose plague. The players are burnt by the awful rulesets and the every present rush toward the next edition. The lore enjoyers are burnt by the woke pandering. And EVERYONE is burnt by the constant price increase.

[@ravenRedwake]

I got all the kits that I want for the four armies I collect (tau, world eaters, Primaris marines, grey knights), I’m just in the process of painting/adding extra details to them.

[@DarkCT]

Your rambling reminded me of how much trouble actually playing the game timely could be. Ive played card games as the person losing on the list building side often enough due to preferring an eternal format game with powercrept decks. im at the point with that game where i can look at a card and roughly count the rings on when it was released. i still play the way i do because sometimes something new comes along that revives some decade and a half old card to being effective and that thoughts always a laugh. I bought rules for models in 40k around the time i tried to play last, but my ability to meet up for games changed, and by the time i could put those rules to use, the model's rules where entirely discontinued. no repressor transport for me with sisters leaning out of the side firing on things like i wanted when i ordered it. I was never a good painter, nor assembler, and yes, doing such things did feel very tedious, especially when other companies put out cheaper models for a quality i liked with less individual parts, and now so many of GW models are indeed just multipart monopose. to really be dedicated to this stuff requires a lot to be done. which is why i laugh when any company uses a certain tag about how open their work apparently is. to be fully into tabletop miniatures requires dedication to multiple different levels, and most people have to really work their way into some parts. should i get back into table top, it's one of many reasons ill be playing a different game.

[@monkeyinapanzer]

One big issue I think GW has is that the high prices and rapid release rate (for some things for some systems) would actually be pretty tolerable IF they produced an airtight high quality product with solid rules and great sculpts or at least didn’t have much competition. But that’s not current Warhammer in pretty much any system. Pretty much every Warhammer system has at minimum 1-2 editions under its belt if not something approaching double digits that are dirt cheap second hand or exist in totality in a PDF folder some guy shoved into a mega drive. Most sculpts have an older version or two of itself kicking around in the wild for maybe not cheap, but a better price for a more often than not better sculpt. Oldhammer is one of the biggest competitors Warhammer has in my opinion.

[@99todesGott]

well I played off and on 40k and wfb/aos since 2008. But with the recent changes of lore, prices etc. I am looking at other game systems. Currelty build a small warband for trench crusade. Might want to take a look, if you fancy WWI/ WWII + grimdark + religious influence

[@Pers0n97]

Hey, that looks like a cool setting, I'll check it out!

[@Rothgar59]

I would love to see some of these tournaments come out and say, "we see that GW official models are too expensive for the majority of people, so we are allowing models from other sources." I'm with you on the time poor statement, I have been war gaming since rogue trader days, and used to save up and buy a box of miniatures, i got to paint them all up before i was able to afford another box, now i could drop $100's a week on models but rarely have time to paint or play with the models i already have.

[@frankfelerski1043]

I wouldn't mind these boxes if they released the new characters individually about a month later

[@endlesswaffles6504]

These boxes just seem like random stuff thrown together without any theme or cohesion. GW's characters are nice sculpts but I'd much rather kitbash my own. If I bought a FOMO box, I would probably end up building and painting a third of it while the rest sits on my shelf. Really, there's no reason for me to buy any of these boxes.

[@MEATOGRE]

GW is there to point and laugh at, not to give money to. Too bad the memory of the Warhammer community is about 2.5 weeks, but that’s part of the comedy!

[@Corvinuswargaming1444]

The Chaos Space Marine Terminator kit was really frustrating when I bought it a couple years ago. I really liked their look, but the weapon options in a single box were heavily restricted.

[@tervindar507]

Finally, someone has a reasonable take on the building process of modern GW kits instead of the gaslighting in the various forums and groups. The new models are truly a chore to build, bretonnia lord on pegasus, chaos knights, and the updated skeletons are some of the worst kits to build. Definitely prefer the approach that Conquest from Parabellum has as it pertains to their models, rules, and community engagement.

[@Pers0n97]

Trovarion made a video about it recently too. The consensus is shifting, the shill lies couldn't stand the test of time and now that more and more people had to deal with the new minies first hand, there is no hiding it. Building a modern GW mini is a shore.

Chad 6 flags> cringe disneyland

[@judgecohen1373]

The PRIMARY issue I have with the sales/corporate behavior of GW for the last 15 years or so is a lack of RESPECT for paying customers who have supported their company for 30 or more years. I worked there for almost 13 years. 11 in the US Studio and this latest generation of creatives AND managers simply don’t appear to care very much about what they are making or how it will behave/affect anyone beyond their tenure.

[@judgecohen1373]

They seem to have lost the idea that it is not THEIR Hobby it is THE Hobby and they have responsibility for its stewardship.

[@ethanhastings2514]

Are there any alternative rule sets for 40k? And i don't mean returning to an older edition. For example a friend and myself cave kinda converted Bolt action rules to use 40k factions.

[@sinanatamer2300]

I'm pretty sure they do these awful moulding for the builds just to fuck up with recasters. It makes kitbashing really difficult :D

[@sagacity1071]

If more channels talked about product quality is would actually improve. Instead scumrak, Auspex Talkalot and the rest just pretend everything is 100% Marine players have to endure filthmaris... arguably worse than CSM 3 to 4 transition.

[@Pers0n97]

Valrak is a spineless chill, but Auspex is a straight up guy that will call out GW on their bullshit tho.

[@In_Purple_Clad]

Agree with everything you said. To add to the point you made about "mini's getting shot off the board turn 1 after months of lovingly painting it" - You've made me realise how much my local gaming group relies upon an unspoken/ unintentional 'honour system' in all our games. "never shoot the big new shiny unit in turn 1, always let it have it's fun first/ let it show off it's cool abilities and let it absolutely murder something, and only then are you allowed to murder it to death with your cool new shiny unit" It's one of those things that's never been actually said out loud. We never came together and explicitly told each other that's how we're gonna play our games. No-one told us to do that. But because we're a bunch of 'narrative' players doing slow-grow armies one month at a time, it seems like we've all jst instictually realised that's the best way to play. We want to see what our opponant's shiny new model can do. We want to see just how much carnage they can wreak on our forces. 'cos it makes the moments when our shiny new thing comes in and saves the day by murdering their new unit all the more sweeter. We just inherently want to do that. We want to craft a narrative. It's odd to realise that that's been going on without any prompting... I wonder if that's a 'special rule' games designers should actively/ explicitly put into their rulebooks - a little line in a little section they sometimes write about 'playing by intent, sportsmanship', etc. (?)

[@LiliaArmoury]

13:13 replying to you one that but yeah some models have been utterly awful to build. recently i was building a malcador and it's top just wouldn't go in and sit flush or in a way that had the hull tack sides tops sit at the same height as the sides and while attempting to fix this i ended up having a deep enough wound from a knife that i visited the emergancy department for it. when i actually get to doing my actual review of the model with it painted up that will be brought up and take points away from the model. the model also still wouldn't go together smoothly after the injury which infuriates me. i also do feel a lot of things are too expensive these days and have openly been stating get things through a stockist or on sale

[@TheOuterCircle]

Jeesh! Are you ok now?

[@wwezombiegod]

GW says they feel bad that they have to once again raise the prices, that they don't want to. They sell two discount boxes and they made barely any. Local stores only getting a couple. It's an abusive relationship, they say they care then punch us right in the gut. If you're gonna rise your prices give us something to work with

[@loganlough6510]

Macca can you talk about other games to get into? At least as a 40k fan. Not board games but actual other wargames? I've done my own research and OPR is what I'm leaning towards but I'd love a game that feels like 5th edition 40k

[@Pers0n97]

13:10 I feel like more and more people are talking about how awful to build GW miniatures are now, hell Trovarion Miniatures literally made a video about exactly that earlier this week. At first people kept trying to pretend monopose and pushfit are a good thing because they are "simpler" to build... but that's a lie and that lie became way too obvious so now they are trying to shift to "we need monopose because that way the minies are way more dynamic (as if "dynamism" was something that needed to be at the very top of your "build your own guys" miniature game), but even that is not true and more and more people realize it. We don't need every single marines to do random shit, throwing grenade, reloading a gun, pointing his finger, scratching its ass, what we need is a unit that LOOKS like its on a battlefield and engaging a target, we need guys pointing guns infront of them.

[@MrConna6]

The numbers thing really sucks with say a squad of ten primaris who build as two different options, the moment you clip out two similar bits you are lost to comparing the instruction book, images online, and the parts for ages until you figure out which is which! So goodbye clipping out a pile of shoulder pads or weapons and seeing what looks good

[@Pers0n97]

I got that exact problem with some Skorpek destroyers. You'd think that generic robots that all look the same wouldn't have that problem, but if you do not use the exact type of arm that was supposed to go with that exact torso (same with the legs) the model just won't work. Instead of having round pegs everything has square pegs just to force you to get the specific pose the sculptor decided you needed to use.

[@ssgrandall]

I really like the box sets

[@ravenRedwake]

4:02 wouldn’t it be like $500+ to get both sets?

[@khamul64]

Hey Macca I am currently building armies for Star Wars Legion. Clones (happy accident) and Droids. They are easy to build, very beginner friendly and super easy to paint. There is no bullshit going on wich makes them ideal for contrast or simmilar paints. The most time I've spent on minis so far is Grevious and Kenobi for whom I made LED sabers and LAAT/LE for clones because its big flying brick. Compared to Heresy (I have wolves with little bling, not over the top level of wolf) its night and day. Squad of marines took me entire week of few hours here and there. Clones? Squad per evening.

[@ravenRedwake]

6:42 well, 5th edition kinda did that. You had the not ultramarine characters who did army wide stuff but that was it.

[@chriscannon7065]

The worst model I’ve seen so far to build is the ancient in the company heroes box. They really chopped up how his cloak assembles and the attaching of the bolt rifle. It is very difficult to get it to not have gaps on the right shoulder of the cloak or even to just sit level so it doesn’t look atrociously assembled.

[@TheKenthor]

I mostly play Bolt Action these days. My friend group is still into GW, so I occasionally get dragged in. I don't play 40k though as I don't care for the current edition. Just HH and Necromunda, both of which I enjoy. My hobby money goes to Warlord these days.

[@rutgaurxi7314]

I play Oldmunda when I can, most of my other models are shelf fodder, even if they are from other systems. Still, having said that, I am really getting into Gunpla and scale modelling.

[@ForestGoblinJo]

RIP lash of torment lists. I miss you.

[@AgeofSilver]

Far too many people are willing to sit there and take it on the chin from big companies like GW. If that wasn’t bad enough they continue to defend the companies who are sticking it to them. 😂

[@OzymandiasRex]

Just wait for release and buy from china for a 1/3 of the price. They deserve it!

[@ZontarDow]

The tidium in assembly is to distract from the fact GW miniatures have stagnated in quality over the past two decades where others have moved on to multicolour single piece parts.

[@Pers0n97]

Building Gunpla really open your eyes as how antiquated GW sprues are.

[@ZontarDow]

@@Pers0n97 I truely wish Bandai would enter the TTWG and TTRPG market

[@latro666]

you should call it 'make the hobby great again'

[@363AJFTW363]

I really want someone big to make an improved one page rules, but to replace games workshop rules

[@thecraftmasque]

Discord minis has been lamenting the monopolization of the hobby by GW for a long time - you guys should collab or do a podcast episode or something.

[@Pers0n97]

The real problem her isn't that GW is the most popular miniature company, it's more that WARHAMMER as a brand is just way too powerful and overshadow everyone else.

[@theojames9812]

I'm having some trouble finding a UK based source for printed/cast bits, can someone throw me a private message or something to help me out, tried reddit and Facebook but don't get much if any response!

[@RSBurgener]

I hear you, Macca. I am an Iron Warriors psycho-fan. These new Lords don't bother me much. I kitbashed some Praetors because I wanted some old wardogs as my generals, the kind they don't make anymore. And these new guys look like space barbarians. I buy used, buy recast occasionally, buy alternatives; but I also buy new at full price sometimes. I control my own hobby destiny and I go at my own pace. I've never been an impulse buyer or one of their whales. You can't be if you're gonna maintain this hobby long term. I also do not have a pile of shame.

[@ja37d-34]

Yeah, these modern monopose models are tedious to build.. I prefer the older multi-part which you could build anyway you liked.. But most 40k players don´t care, they don´t even clean mould lines..

[@LiliaArmoury]

5th ed marine codex locked chaper rules behind taking a named character with that chapter rules then 6th ed marine codex dropped and came with chapter tactics in it and it wouldn't be till 7th before some other armies got new codexes with equivilents in them, but rest would have to wait till their 8th ed codex case in point imperial guard or renamed to astra militarum that book didn't have chapter tactics equivilient in it, it also didn't have any of the plastic lords of war options the guard could take in it and the book was released a month out from 7th ed where taking lords of war was baked into your force org chart, gw did back in december of the following year put out an 80 dollar book with those rules in it so i guess their sales team didn't want a codex to kill the main customers for that book (spacemarines had a reprint for the thunderhawk rules in it from imperial armour and chaos, eldar, tau all had 1 unit each in there, orks would get a new codex later that year which had their stompa rules and the rules for two new knight sized superheavies in it

[@richarddavis3163]

Aren't there still unreleased necron characters in indomitus? And another 8th ed starter?

[@Pers0n97]

Everything is technically "released" but just like Dark Millenium, a lot of the minies are stuck on the same sprue than others and you are forced to buy them as a bundle (the same thing is happening with the venomcrawler and the 2 big guys).

[@margaretwood152]

GW

[@Vroomerz]

Really liked when the political aspect was true satire and allegory: Warp stone Grazgul Thrakka All of the Rogue Trader 1ed lore The Rainbow Warriors legion When you can’t satire, lampoon, and slip in allegory, you’ve taken yourself too seriously & are preaching a message of narcissism & superiority. In other news, I’ve decided to paint my Custodes (from the Prospero box) in their Rogue Trader colors: black.

[@joshwenn989]

If you think "all of Rogue Trader's lore" was satire you need to go and actually read the book. Silly jokes and pop-culture references don't equal satire. Also Ghazghkull's own creator said that he isn't a Margaret Thatcher reference. Not that that will ever stop people parroting the idea that he is.

[@Pers0n97]

A yes, the usual "bruuuuh it's all satyr yaknow, you shouldn't take it so seriously bruuuuuuuh". You know, if you really don't care about the lore, maybe you should just invest your time and money on something else, something you'd find more worthy of your respect. Just get away from our hobby because we actually do care.

[@Pers0n97]

10th edition is the worst thing GW has ever done ngl. Imagine taking the universally disliked "Power Level" of 9th, the system that makes every loadout free and every unit fixed size, and apply it to the whole game. Imagine trying to totally erase subfactions from the game, relegating them as vaguely flavored "theme list" totally dissociated from the lore. This is 10th, and this is just a stopgap until GW FINALLY reaches the goal they set forward with 8th: turning 40k into AoS in space. I can deal with a lot, A LOT of bullshit, but this will make me quit if not reversed. I want a return to 3.5th edition, far away from the current awful, AWFUL game design of GW.

[@Aaron-io8vw]

Sadly, it's because CAN are not as popular. Popular Loyalist characters that where initially in box sets where rather quickly given their own individual release see the Lion and Azrael who got individual release 3about 3-4 months after the box set

[@Hurricanelive]

It is like a drug, it's an addiction. Peeps gotta get rehab and unsub from GW and go cold turkey, pile of shame or not. A time has to roll around where peeps just say no. This is a live service now, and they've refined it to be. The models have gotten way more terrible over time, nothing redeeming, nothing nostalgic or true to the old warhammer aesthetic. Warhammer can't even be buggered to develop push fit torso with swappable peg/slot arms, heads, and backpack/gear, it makes too much sense! They even work to making models so terrible they want you to work to magnetize, I'm surprised they don't punish you with altering your figures. Guy calls a ref over, ref gives you a half pt penalty for every alteration on each model. Third party helmets... DQ. GW is on the road to dying now imo and it is the best and last time I think they would be paid well for the company, they should sell now. Sell to Amazon and just make collectibles and stop making rules, just write weird creepy books. GW are predators now, they are predatory.

[@henrythe9th377]

Could you tell us who your coke dealer is please? I want to do some rambling as well

[@Pers0n97]

It's called having a IQ over 20. At this point you can start to form coherent sentences and thoughts. I hope you'll get there some day.

[@wastedaga1n]

One page rules saved me from GW greed. It’s so cheap in fact I’ve given away full armies for free. Get on the bus, Gus. It’s a lot of fun over here

[@JudasBrennan]

Going from 3.5 to what came next was fantastic for everybody else. 3.5 was cancer.

[@TheOuterCircle]

3.5 has the bad rep because it came first. Marines, Tyranids, Guard and Eldar of that period were all filthy as well, just they came after. When 3.5 dropped it was against 3rd ed books, of course it dominated.

[@DrunkenDeer]

calling the elephant in the room at most people reading this comments. You probably not even got a non gw army or still play gw systems. I honestly don't know how you people can play 40k anymore and call it fun. bunch of rule correcting codexes , stand to wait, pay to win with a gotcha mechanics system. Go play frostgrave or Oathmark (xenos rampant for you scifi fans) Until then GW is still going to win

[@CaptinCrofty]

The prices are insane, the best one iv seen is boss snickrot is $91 !!! in new zealand. one orc $91 just bend over and beg for it