A Moral Argument For Free Universal Health Care

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In which I make a philosophical and practical argument for health care being a human right.
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[@TBFSJjunior]

Greetings from Germany where it is illegal not to help a person in imminent danger. If you pass an accident and pull someone out of a car, you are automatically not liable for injuries you might cause by accident as you are legally obligated to help. Also an interesting fun fact: Unlike the US constitution which can be amended and therefore totally changed, the German constitution has some parts that cannot be changed, even with a 100% majority. One of those rights is article one: "Human dignity is inviolable." Denying Healthcare to someone would violate that imho.

[@allthingsunimportant]

sadly from the beginning the us constitution started off rocky and vague as hell so the upper class people here enjoy interpreting it in a way that best suits them. so we started off in a crappy way tbh

[@T1J]

Interesting! I didn't know this.

[@YumLemmingKebabs]

I don't think an unchangeable provision in a state constitution is actually a good thing. It took us fourteen amendments to realize black men deserved the right to vote (and also just be legally recognized as full human beings, and by "us" I just mean enough Americans to get the amendment passed... There are still people who disagree with it to this day), and then another 30 years and 5 amendments to realize women did. These kinds of documents are made based on what's considered acceptable at the time of their creation and when the US constitution was created enslaving owning black people as disposable property was apparently considered acceptable... even though several of the people who founded the country openly admitted to viewing it as immoral.

[@exquisitecorpse4917]

I would like to add that amendment to the US constitution!

[@exquisitecorpse4917]

@@allthingsunimportant Germany was forced to face up to its national atrocities in a really profound, visible fashion. Americans have never had to do that, so our incredibly violent policies have been quietly shuffled aside rather than directly addressed and explicitly condemned.

[@blackatheist7369]

This is a very underrated channel.

[@silviusuelbus3108]

Black Atheist Yeah, this is a smart guy. Americans should be listening to him.

[@cybergrail]

I agree! This channel is a beacon of light in the darkness of selfishness and greed.

[@babafrog1877]

Its a damn crime that ive never been recommended any of his videos before, this is the second one ive seen but he just seems like a nice, down to earth guy with an open mind.

[@dylanrees2966]

I like the fact that he's not just another posh white boy talking philosophy 😅

[@corab1695]

Dude yeah

[@exquisitecorpse4917]

One of the ways capitalism keeps itself strong is that its proponents tend to propose a false ultimatum: "You can either have single-party communist dictatorship OR you can have corporate feudalism with freedom of speech." There is definitely a system of government which allows us to have a robust free press, kickass blockbuster movies, AND basic prosperity for every person regardless of economic position.

[@swanpride]

Well, same for anti-capitalists. They act as if capitalism always looks the way as it does in the US, but one shouldn't forget that the states with the best healthcare in the world are also all capitalist states. Just not "free market above all" capitalist states, but states, who have realised that healthy and educated workers are actually creating a thriving economy, and that investing in fighting poverty lowers the crime rate, hence creating more security for everyone. Free market capitalism with no restriction at all is crazy, especially in areas like health care or housing, but some healthy competition is also a good thing to encourage development and inventions.

[@josephv2569]

swanpride Even anti-capitalists aren’t all against having a market or competition at all. You can have BOTH an economic system that isn’t capitalism and a market that has competition.

[@exquisitecorpse4917]

@@swanpride I think it's been more-or-less shown through historical results that "pure" capitalism and "pure" socialism are both very bad ideas, and I don't condone the complete confiscation of all private property and the complete reorganization of our entire society....that's insane; Russia had decades of famine because of that kind of policy. Still, the idea of a universal basic income, healthcare for everyone, and housing for everyone seems quite achievable. I'm a little too old to believe that revolution can change everything for the better....but I'm still young enough to dream, dammit.

[@aleka..]

@@exquisitecorpse4917 so... you basically want socialism, just to not be called like that? or you're still fine with exploitation part?

[@modernmind5872]

@@aleka.. Why does it have to be capitalism or socialism? Why not both? Why not neither?

[@arcturionblade1077]

The coronavirus pandemic has explicitly highlighted just how critically vulnerable and dysfunctional the American healthcare system really is. That a first world nation and supposed shining beacon of freedom like the United States cannot protect its citizens due to a broken purely for-profit system of medical care where the main and only purpose is to make money and not to treat sick people, is profoundly sad and infuriating.

[@youare5907]

Or... the reason it's like this is because Trump ignored the warnings given to him over a month ago, disbanded shit established by the previous president to help in these situations and made a party of clowns...?

[@arcturionblade1077]

@@youare5907 I'd say it's both unfortunate circumstances at play during the same time when the vast majority Americans can ill afford it (figuratively as people are dying in real time and literally as the lion's share of bankruptcies in the U.S. is caused by mounting medical bills). *insert meme image of little girl going, "Why not both?"*

[@lloroshastar6347]

@James Davis Based on everything he has done since his presidency it seems much more likely that he ignored the advice from government agencies until he realised he had fucked up and u-turned. This is like the hundredth time he has u-turned on a stupid decision or braindead tweet he had made. Given that he ejected all the pro-science people from his cabinet and replaced them with creationists and conspiracy fuckwits I somehow doubt he was on the side of science all along and the 'government agencies' were misleading him.

[@Mcgiver699]

@@youare5907 both things can be true, Look at 2 places with Universal Healthcare (South Korea & Italy) First one did a stellar job because first they took it seriously and tested everyone but this was immensely facilitated by the fact that they have Single Payer healthcare and with it all pertinent agencies could coordinate a rapid response protocol. The second is an amalgamation of private insurance with heavy supervision from the government. Italy didn't act quickly enough and even though the health system kicked in and did their best (I say their best because with the level of pandemic reach any healthcare system would had been in great stress) but the coordination wasn't as efficient as the South Korean or even the Chinese. So as you can see both things can be true, you need rapid response and coordination and a healthcare system that facilitates such response.

[@bcianimation9342]

@@Mcgiver699 Universal healthcare is a horrible idea, at least with the way America is set up. The immense waiting times along with the lack of doctors endorsements alone would cripple our hospital systems alongside forcing people to pay for other people's care who don't pay back for what they're given. We're helping more people now than we would with universal care

[@SeekerOfKnowledge87]

The public defender and emergency room rebuttal to Ben Shapiro was great.

[@overimagination2812]

Its too east rebutting Ben Shapiro, his arguments are bought and paid for. Not to mention the guy admits to having only slept with one woman in his entire life, and he waited for marriage. I can't take a guy like that seriously.

[@mattherron173]

@@overimagination2812 What the actual hell?

[@israsaleh]

@@overimagination2812 the sentiment was appreciated but the second to last sentence was rather unnecessary

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

@@overimagination2812 what does that have to do with the price of beans or anything else in this discussion?

[@ianstratton]

The only flaw with your answer to the "Healthcare is a service, not a right" argument (rights to a lawyer, a trail by jury, voting, labor, safe working conditions, etc already require a third party) is that, well....a lot conservatives don't believe those things should be rights for everyone.....

[@IconoclastX]

well that's because the healthcare market is an industry. Police, jury and judge weren't industries before so it wasn't a problem(the government provided those services at the start). If the government decides to provide healthcare for everyone it's going to destroy the market and cause the collapse of the entire industry. We don't want the government reaching it's hands into something it hasn't touched before.

[@bizambo100]

@@IconoclastX That's like saying we shouldn't fight crime because there are industries that benefit from criminal activity. The market is not more important than basic human rights.

[@nathanruinshisfuture]

@Vega Nona did you watch the video

[@partycitydumpster]

Yeah, I've spoken to a ton of people who think undocumented immigrants should be denied emergency services. Fewer that believe poor people should, but I have met a couple of those.

[@s0lid_sno0ks]

@@bizambo100 I hope you are denied a bed when you really need one.

[@inabastias]

Even here in developing countries in south america, we have universal health care. I'ts not the best, you have long waiting times for some specialities, but is way better than what you have in USA. I will never understand how is posible that in USA, you don't have universal health care, or maternal leave, or mandatory vacations for all workers, it just blow my mind, because those seems to me like basic human rights that, a country with your income can afford. For me is like not having public schools.

[@antifagoat6591]

We are rich because the working class is stripped to the bone for corporate interests.

[@akeiltheseal]

@Adobe Adobe then keep the same energy for the right to have an lawyer, emergency services, labour rights, vote etc.

[@sassyviking6003]

It is easy to understand why we don't have it. The oligarchs have all the power and have decided they don't want it. So we the plebeians have to just put up with it. We have no actual say in our government and have not for a long time, if ever.

[@v.sandrone4268]

Slightly different slant on the issue from Australia where we have universal health care. It is the moral duty of a society to provide a safety net for it's citizens. Anyone can develop cancer and they should be able to receive treatment without concern about the financial consequences to the individual.

[@overimagination2812]

Unless they are 'rugged individualists' lol... i've seen a guy in he usa cut his own skin cancer off, it got infected, he's dead.

[@alwindsor7299]

@@overimagination2812 I guess he did technically beat cancer...

[@v.sandrone4268]

@Adobe Adobe Is it fair for a non-driver's taxes to be used to fund roads? Should smokers be left without healthcare? What about the overweight? What about those who don't workout enough? Who decides who deserves to live or die?

[@spcbnd1087]

@@v.sandrone4268 This. What it boils down to for me is simple compassion for other human beings. Regardless of their lifestyle.

[@v.sandrone4268]

@@spcbnd1087 Exactly you don't ask a drowning person if they contributed to their situation you save them.

[@mboatrightED300]

I had to have abdominal surgery in Japan and for 3 CT scans, an MRI, 5 nights in the hospital, and the surgery it cost me (drumroll) about $800. That's nothing to sniff at if you're poor (I was saving enough money at my teaching job that I could afford it) but it's nothing compared to the tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of dollars I'd have been charged for the same service. I paid almost that much just for an hour in an emergency room check when my doctor thought my symptoms were returning here in the states! The hospitals were pretty bare, and I had to have people bring my own supplies from home like toothbrushes etc. and I had problems with Japan's healthcare system, like how at least at that time they didn't cover birth control. But I have zero doubt in my mind over which system I wish I was living under.

[@swanpride]

In Germany, the price would have been 10 Euro for each day spend in the hospital. That's it. And if you stay particularly long or you truly can't afford it, the fee is waved at one point, too. (the 10 Euro are btw for food and bed, not for the actual treatment).

[@fabfabrice3434]

And I guess that you had to pay 800$ because you are not a japanese citizen. If you were it would have been free

[@mboatrightED300]

@@fabfabrice3434 No, I paid into the Japanese system out of my paycheck the way everyone else did. Under their system, 70% (I believe) of costs are covered by the government if you're under 65, up to a certain amount after which it becomes 90%. They do still have something of a supplemental health insurance system to cover the gap, and it would have cost me just a couple of bucks a month to have had it all paid in full, which if I'd known I was going to have a major hospital stay I would've because it would've been cheaper in the longterm. Even within nationalized systems there are different ways of doing it, but we refuse to even consider our options here in the states. And regardless, the costs would have been lower: 30% of my bill in the US would not have been $800.

[@greatninja2590]

To be fair they want more babies maybe that’s why they don’t include birth control On the plus side they pay you if you have a baby

[@mboatrightED300]

@@greatninja2590 Yeeeah this policy of not paying for birth control goes back way before the population crunch. The actual fair analysis is that it's a conservative, patriarchal culture in many ways (though that's changing) and women having sexual freedom scares the crap out of conservative, patriarchal cultures. They have lax abortion laws, true, but that's more to eliminate the high infanticide rates that occurred when the laws were stricter (read up on Ishikawa Miyuki for how that happened).

[@TeTaongaKorora]

21:40 The 'innovation' claim people make about why HC has to be for-profit is nonsense anyway (I know it's outside the scope/focus of the vid). 1) Most new medical research is publicly funded in universities, funded in private labs through NIH research grants, or imported academic work from outside the US (where there tends to be higher public investment in its development). Private companies tinker and perfect the medications, giving the 'brand name' medications, but the active ingredients themselves were publicly discovered more times than not. 2) What innovation at the point of treatment? That's what healthcare as a right means. It doesn't mean changing development/research phases, though a shift towards removing profit incentives there would be good; it means at the point of treatment healthcare is a right. Innovation and development doesn't occur during your visit to the hospital. It's nonsense and demonstrates a clear misunderstanding/rejection of the facts of how research and development work

[@bizambo100]

To be fair it takes a massive amount of money to go from an academic finding to a profitable drug, and the success rate is very low.

[@viktor1098]

No matter the truth of statement 1, innovation goes further than fundamental research. It is not that public research money that pays the installation of a brand new proton LINAC in a cancer clinic.

[@AnotherRandomHobo]

On the point of market driven healthcare drives innovation, a lot of that innovation is payed for by the government. Specifically pharmaceutical companies in the US tend to be able to pay huge chunks of their R&D costs with tax dollars in the form of research grants. In essence drug companies can offload a large portions of their risk onto the government while keeping all of the reward.

[@LimeyLassen]

This is true for a LOT of industries. Nationalize the costs, privatize the profits.

[@HeavenlyEchoVirus]

peter Exactly. It has been argued that the European enlightenment saw so much scientific innovation because their literary public sphere was so open. It was expected that you were to submit your ideas and breakthroughs before the whole public, giving everyone a chance to argue against or contribute to your findings/propositions/etc. The cumulative nature of scientific progress (at least as conceived of in the enlightenment) demands social collaboration. I think it is worth noting as well that more expensive care doesn’t always mean the best care. Sure, the cheapest care may not likely be the best, but looking at the U.S. from outside, it really does seem like those who can easily afford it undergo way more treatments and procedures than are really necessary or even best.

[@marina.chayka]

A private market will only innovate on something that will turn profits, while a public system doesn't have to think about money and can concentrate on what the population actually needs. A private market doesn't want to cure cancer, can you imagine how much money the entire private system would not get? Personnel, drugs, space etc etc. That's a LOT of money. For a public system cancer treatment being so expensive is a real big problem, so there's actually more incentive to find a cure to it. When you combine public high education with public health care that's when the innovation is more focused on the people instead of profit.

[@jenyawooten1455]

Your use of the Socratic method is amazing. And as a chronically ill person, thank you. Access to guaranteed health care would have prevented my bodies degradation to the current disabled state it is in now.

[@Darkmausi]

8:35 In Germany, where I live, law suits for "failure to provide assistance" exist. This means, when you see someone is in a dangerous situation it is your duty to help (and if it's just calling an ambulance, the police or throwing stuff at the car while yelling). It is a crime letting someone die without taking action

[@TemperaMagenta]

Same in Norway. There's a duty to help to the extent of your capabilities, as long as it does not put yourself in any considerable danger. Failing to do so can result in fines and a prison sentence.

[@silviusuelbus3108]

Same in Italy

[@msjkramey]

But isn't it sometime more dangerous to help? Another commenter said you had to pull a guy out of their car (also from Germany), but what if he had a broken neck? You could have just paralyzed or killed a man that could have otherwise made a full recovery because you moved him? When I was learning how to ski, the first thing we learned was not to touch someone with a possible neck injury and let the professionals handle it, so we did fuck them up worse. We were even told not to give CPR unless a 911 operator told us to, because that could also mess with the spinal alignment and the nerves in the spinal cord

[@TemperaMagenta]

​@@msjkrameyThe way I understand the Norwegian law, it just means you do what you can, if it's just calling for help. I don't think anyone is required to give medical assistance if they are not trained for it. In fact, I think only health care professionals are required to do that. I assume it isn't that much different in Germany, although I haven't read their laws on it.

[@burner1303]

With Germany's history, this makes a lot of sense.

[@nathandrake5544]

I view this issue through a utilitarian rather than a deontological perspective. If the government can provide healthcare to every citizen, as it does in almost every other country, then it is immoral for us to allow people to die due to lack of health insurance.

[@bizambo100]

Unfortunately some people are willing to let people die in order to pay less in taxes.

[@burner1303]

@@bizambo100 Which is a stupid argument even on its own terms, since the US pays double what any other OECD country pays in healthcare, we just pay most of our taxes to private companies.

[@ZoomerTrader]

Problem is that bad government spending from both parties has made the country hugely in debt and we cant afford to pay more stuff

[@voxomnes9537]

@@ZoomerTrader ...No.

[@StNick119]

That sounds fairly deontological tbh, just with a different duty.

[@sagewaterdragon]

While I do support universal healthcare, in the past I've had difficulty coming up with something equivalent that we pretty universally agree is good - the public defender talk in this video was great. Thank you.

[@chrisallison9151]

Being a public defender is a voluntary position and more people voluntarily choose to go in a private practice because they know they can make more money. Some public defenders quit because the state doesn't give them the funds to do their to the best of their ability

[@jpedrosc98]

@@chrisallison9151 Yeah, I live in Brazil where we have universal health care. Doctors usually leave it when they grow in their carreers and it's certainly far from perfect. But I must say that the "doctor quality" problem is not as bad as it is with public defenders. That's because a) it's arguably more inspiring to be a doctor saving lives or giving birth to children than it is to defend people being accused of crimes b) the differences in pay is not that high. The private market can't ask that much money from their clients if they are going to compete with a free option and, therefore, can't afford to pay orders of magnitude more than the public sector. However, people usually do *feel* better when using private healthcare - they have to feel like they have their money's worth, right?

[@michealpulkka6809]

I've always been a bit ambivalent to the idea of healthcare being a right. Like, I recognized that it would be a good thing if it was acknowledged as such, but I was always iffy on it, probably purely because it's so controversial in the United States. However, I found your comparison to guaranteed emergency care, regardless of cost, to be convincing. People in America would probably think it would be disgusting if you were given a bill by the firefighters when your house burned down, they might be outraged if they were given a bill when they called the cops on a teenager in a hoodie, so why are we okay with a trip to the emergency room bankrupting people?

[@TeTaongaKorora]

And amazingly private, for-profit fire departments are still legal and not uncommon in the US. So yeah depending on where you live within the US, you could in fact get billed for your house burning down. Isn't that great

[@CinnamonCari]

@@TeTaongaKorora I DID NOT KNOW THAT. That's fucked up.

[@overimagination2812]

@@CinnamonCari I've seen video of firefighters from the "country next door" sit with the house owners as it went up in flames because they were not paid to service that side of the road!! Its a nation of imbeciles who don't give a sh*t about each other.

[@codylee729]

We do get a bill it's called taxes

[@dewayner5388]

Cody A. Lee Good. Because my taxes are less than the bill I’d get. So it’s working

[@Ali94749]

Most developed countries have some form of universal health care so I always find the debate in America fascinating. What is it about America that makes something the rest of the world takes for granted so controversial?

[@allthingsunimportant]

BROOOO Your emote is adorable ahh!!! ♡

[@allthingsunimportant]

but yeah, basic necessities like food, water, shelter and medical care should be granted to everyone. There is no negative economic toll this would take. If people have these basic rights they tend to work and thrive and when people work and thrive the economy thrives. if you don't think all people deserve to thrive and some people at birth are innately BETTER or more DESERVING than others, I'd like to remind you that at the end of the day, we all die alone and another apex predator like a lion would not choose who to eat "based on who deserved to be here". the idea that some people are better than others is one of the biggest logical fallacies and generally, the people arguing otherwise are aware of this and they don't want to change and don't want to be uncomfortable. well I'd argue that's life, and you better get comfortable being uncomfortable. because when things break down, the poor, the rich, the white and the brown, the god fearing man and the atheist will all face their mortality and death isn't going to look at your four yachts and give you a pass. the way things are going on with 'the sickness' is starting to show these underlying truth

[@beansfebreeze]

Healthcare is a right, but capitalism doesn't incentivize the rights of the masses so we don't get to have it.

[@juniorgod321]

Right given by who?

[@bizambo100]

@@juniorgod321 By the people who vote in favor of it. Just like we have the right to public education, clean water, fire department, etc.

[@chrisallison9151]

@@bizambo100 Lets stick with fire department and education because some one has to provide it to you. There aren't as many fire departments because the city finds it necessary protect the safety of it citizens, but cities don't build fire departments based on demand, no one expects the government to build your house if you don't have insurance; you can put out your own fire, it doesn't require that much skill, so it would be wrong for you to ask someone that's not concerned about your doctors livelihood, to pay for something that you couldn't do yourself . Public education, there's always restrictions such as not allowing the parents to choose their education for their child, so to view MY healthcare like our education system to me is atrocious

[@burner1303]

@@chrisallison9151 Private insurance forces you to pay for other people's insurance. That's the whole point of insurance.

[@blixten1982]

@@juniorgod321 You could ask that about any right. All rights are man made. Rights can be whatever a country decides it values. Go into the jungle and tell a tiger you have the right to life, liberty and freedom and see if he agrees it's a natural right. Health care is a right because to the intelligent (ie - every country on earth that can afford it) it's common sense.

[@specsa.1426]

I think the notion that “markets drive innovation” (meaning essentially ‘yeah capitalism kills more than we’re comfortable with, but at least we get cool gadgets and ideas out of the financial incentive!”) is only a half truth. It’s like saying “hunger makes people want to eat”. Sure! But so does a really well presented meal - you’ll eat it just ‘cause it’s pretty and that’s what it’s made for. So will a meal made by someone you love - you’ll try it just to see how well they did. And don’t forget, the ever driving incentive of other food - the promise of dessert if you finish all your peas and broccoli. There are a million reasons why someone would want to eat. Same with why someone would want to create something new for other people to utilize, as a tool or service. Innovation is driven by EXPERIENCE. You experience a market, you innovate a product. You experience a loss, you innovate a prevention tool. You experience a bad movie, you innovate a much more entertaining version of your own. Innovation DOES NOT need a capitalist market to thrive. It only needs humans who have needs and desires to be met. People ALREADY innovate non-profitable things and we all make cute little 15min BuzzFeed documentaries for them before forgetting all about them and allowing their innovations to fail because they can’t survive in a system that demands capital. We are willing to allow a few humans to capitalize off of the health care, criminal & legal, and educational needs of millions, sometimes billions. The system we live under, despite working wonders for markets in luxury branding and unnecessary resources, is killing our general access to the resources that ARE necessary for this society to function. I firmly believe that a system should work for its people - NOT the other way around. We SHOULD NOT have to sacrifice ourselves or our loved ones to make sure that the health care system remains a profitable industry. “But who will pay?” is a loaded question. The richest of the rich only got there off of the labor of others. They should be paying significantly higher in taxes no matter what sort of systemic crisis our society is facing. They have more than enough, collectively and individually, to aid these systems. They only seek to aid their personal agendas. Hold them responsible for the healthcare of millions. Not the sick and poor. As always, your videos remain thought provoking and interesting, T1J. Always making me analyze my beliefs and rework how I approach them. I have never seen an Opinion Essay from you I didn’t love!

[@swanpride]

Frankly, it depends on the area...see, if a company produces a product and knows that the state/the people will buy the product for a set price, there is little reason for said company to invest improving said product. Having a rival is the reason to do so. But in healthcare, markets are often more a hinderance, because they lead to research being done mainly in areas in which there are a lot of customers. Hence people with rare diseases are in a lurch. Hence companies stopped developing a vaccine for SARS years ago, one which might have been really useful to battling Covid now. In other words: In a lot of area it is helpful to have a market which pushes companies to innovate. But for healthcare, it is helpful if experts are setting the goals, not companies.

[@CactusMuffin]

Ben Shapiro actually does have to pay for people’s bread through food stamps.

[@burner1303]

Also through agricultural subsidies.

[@mickeymuse2]

And free and reduced-priced lunch for school kids.

[@dickiewongtk]

I am thinking exactly the same thing. We do not allow people to starve to death even when they have no money. Why should we allow them to die of illness?

[@kght222]

some things should never have a profit incentive. healthcare, prisons, schools, three obvious candidates.

[@leonardofusaro6029]

your voice is very soothing

[@blackdragon6]

Too bad the RNC & DNC don't think it's a right.

[@LimeyLassen]

bribed weasels without exception.

[@youare5907]

Shouldn't you people be on some lefty channel or something?

[@theultrablackman1654]

@@youare5907 what?

[@kylagullacher497]

i cant believe in the good year 2020 we are still having the argue over whether healthcare is a right or not

[@Liloldliz]

drive your friends to the polls

[@grumpyyellowfang3344]

exactly like it obviously isn't; a right is something you're born with. You can't give people rights you can only take it away. Like the right to free speech is a right. Healthcare is a service; somebody has to do a service and I'm not born already having this service. I'm not entitled to a service. The whole healthcare is right thing makes no sense.

[@kylagullacher497]

@@grumpyyellowfang3344 i just think that if someone is sick they deserve to live, regardless of how much money they have in the bank to pay for treatment. thanks for sharing your opinion though!

[@grumpyyellowfang3344]

@@kylagullacher497 Agreed; But it isn't exactly moral to force somebody to pay for something through taxes either. There can be other solutions like charities and medicine, in general, can be significantly cheaper without the government subsidizing and price transparency

[@kylagullacher497]

@@grumpyyellowfang3344 the american military budget is multiple trillion dollars a year, and is paid for by taxes, i think reallocating a portion of that is reasonable

[@jetsninja]

Chibi T1J is adorable. A+.

[@Sandreline]

There's a lot of interesting depth when comparing health care to public defenders. Because I think you could easily argue that one of the problems with our justice system is the inequity between those who can pay for a private lawyer and those who need to rely on a public defender. Better lawyers tend to cost more. Private lawyers often have better education, better experience, and more time and resources. So those that can afford better lawyers have a natural advantage within our justice system. And while I don't have any evidence to back this up, I wouldn't even know what to google, I'm sure that there are ways that private lawyers and their lobbyists work to weaken to public defender system to their advantage. It's the fundamental flaw in having a system that mixes public and private. For as long as we allow private healthcare in our country, public healthcare will always be inferior and private companies will always work to weaken it.

[@solidarity_official]

Human rights ✌️

[@misszombiesue]

Hello, I've been a subscriber for a very long time and a on and off patreon subscriber (just got back on!). I like your little picture and wouldn't mind seeing more videos with art of you instead of your face if it helps you put out more videos. Still enjoying the content and I'm always happy when I get the notification that you posted a new video. Thanks for working so hard on this!

[@joemomma3648]

I took an ethics course in college and it's been very influential on my politics. With healthcare you just frame it so: those without healthcare are suffering, most medical ailments are not the fault of the individual, someone suffering for something that isn't their fault is unjust, we should strive to resolve injustices as a society and botta-boom: universal healthcare. They're going to have a hard time arguing against any of those points individually or their whole.

[@bizambo100]

"Most medical ailments are not the fault of the individual" that's highly debatable. Many diseases are very dependent on various lifestyle choices. Furthermore a conservative could always argue that the free market is best positioned to deal with this problem, not government.

[@_lexi]

@@bizambo100 i think the original commenter's wording is key in this argument though: _most_ medical ailments. that's not saying all of them, and you are 100% correct in saying that there are many that do depend on the individual's lifestyle, but i'm probably nitpicking with my argument here ^^;

[@GreatFlamingEyebrows_]

I love how you are able to break down ultra complex topics and make them easy to understand

[@oliverconlon4687]

On the issue of public defenders, I was issued a public defender a few years ago after being arrested for possession of marijuana (less than half a gram 😂). I eventually got the case dismissed on the grounds that the arresting officer didn’t have a valid reason to search my vehicle, but my public defender was clearly working in favor of the court and not in favor of myself, who she was representing. She kept the dash cam footage from me for god knows how long, I had to notice a DVD labeled “dash cam footage” in her folder and mention it shortly after she told me that they did not have it, or could not provide it. Eventually they allowed me the option to drop the case if I was able to pass a urine test, and while I probably could’ve fought harder and not just have my charges dropped, but probably sue... it had been over two years of being in the court system and I was tired of it, so I accepted. I passed the test and the charges were dropped, but I still felt disenfranchised and let down by the justice system that is supposed to strive for justice rather than seek to exploit people and label them as “criminals” for such harmless offenses. Anyway, my point is that even something that’s a constitutional right, like being provided with a public defender, gets distorted and manipulated to favor those in charge rather than those they’re meant to assist. As much as I believe in universal healthcare, I fear that America’s capitalist system would never implement such a resource, and if they did they would find new ways to use it for capital exploitation of working middle and lower class citizens.

[@SkeledroMan]

I would argue that since a lot of innovation comes out of the public sector, such as universities and public institutions, that universal healthcare would not actually slow down innovation at all. It would just move it more into the public sector instead of the private sector. It is empirically false that the private sector is the only one capable of innovation, and we often see that it is nowhere near as innovative as it purports to be, let alone compared to publicly funded institutions. So i would say that, so long as public funding towards medical research is adequately provided, innovation will not be harmed. If anything it will go towards places where it is most needed instead of places where it is most profitable, and as can often be seen those two rarely, if ever, coincide.

[@LeftistJesus]

"But where will it end? Is housing a right because people die to the elements without housing? Is food a right because people starve to death?" Yes.

[@LeftistJesus]

@SoggyShrimp there are no such thing as rights. There are temporary privileges. Haven't you watched Carlin? Anyway, there are certain privileges we as society are ok with everyone having. Anyway, if ability to own a gun should be a right, the right to a basic standard of life should also be.

[@LeftistJesus]

@SoggyShrimp yea, no-one gives away guns in America as like...promotional material. Anyway, that isn't the point. The point is what fucking good of a right is that if you aren't guaranteed something more essential, like housing, or food?

[@Lionfish5656]

I would argue that conservatives are promoting a false dichotomy between having a universal health care system & high rates of R&D innovation in the healthcare sector. In reality, the E.U & China are pouring more money into R&D, including the healthcare sector & they're seeing their R&D healthcare rankings rise. Both the E.U & China have universal health care systems.

[@fabfabrice3434]

As a french dude, it strikes me that I've never asked myself that question. This is not even up for debate, it is considered a right by everyone all accross the political spectrum from the extreme left to the far right...

[@kristopherloviska9042]

I lived in Sweden for some years. Even as a resident alien, not a citizen, I was covered by their health care system. I got all the care I needed, as does everyone there. After suffering from blood clots in my lungs (while back in the US visiting), upon returning, I was always able to see my doctor. Got all tests needed. Got all prescription medications. Saw the specialists I needed. My total yearly out of pocket costs were just over $300 USD. Reach that threshold, you are done paying for the year. NOBODY goes bankrupt due to unexpected medical expenses. That health care coverage also covered me anywhere I happened to be in the EU. On vacation in Ibiza? Covered. Visiting Amsterdam? Covered. People say that can't work in the US due to the size of our population compared to countries like Sweden, Canada, etc. BULL! It is simply a matter of scale. People also say that taxes in Sweden are so high. Yes, they are higher than in the US. HOWEVER, to get an accurate comparison, someone in the US needs to take their tax liabilities, then add to that total the cost of health insurance, co-pays, deductibles, etc. College is also "free" in Sweden. So add the cost of that to the tax bill in the US if one wants to compare countries. Here in the US, college graduates enter the workforce with student aid debt which is often comparable to a mortgage on a house. Only then are you comparing on equal footing, for then you are getting the same return. And by the way, when I filed my taxes in Sweden, I got refunds. Even with those "high taxes" people still had cars. Cell phones. MANY had vacation homes. Everybody got 5 weeks paid vacation time. Even "lowly" fast food workers. Parents get 16 months of paternity leave, to be divided between both parents, paid at 80% of their salary, and they are able to use it, at their own discretion, up until the child turns 8. Some countries actually walk the walk when they say they care about their citizens (and resident aliens such as I was). They realize that society as a whole is better when even the "lowest" in that society have access to The US is all talk and no action. The real motto of the US is not "In God We Trust", or even "E Pluribus Unum". The real motto is "To hell with you. I got mine."

[@noahr4951]

I have a degree in economics and was taught a variety of ways to look at ways to regulate consumption. The most common is supply and demand determining price. Market forces will reflect the public’s view on goods and services and so on. The issue with healthcare being treated like any other commodity is it’s difficult to leave a bad review if you’re dead, meaning healthcare can’t operate like any other commodity. It just can’t.

[@noahr4951]

@eli eli Great question. The theoretical response would be something like the demand for healthcare is relatively in-elastic, which means the consumption won't vary much based on changes in price. People won't go to the doctor if they are not sick. I have not done the proper research to be able to give accurate numbers, but I would be willing to bet the number of doctor visits per capita aren't that much different from a country with universal healthcare than the United States.

[@noahr4951]

@eli eli You are not dumb if you are watching T1J videos. Supply and demand works for PS5s. People are going to charge more because lots of people want them which means poor people don't get them until later. Healthcare isn't like that. I'm sure you wouldn't get heart surgery you didn't need, even if it was free, but I would guess you would take every PS5 you could find if it were free.

[@noahr4951]

@eli eli Honestly, I can't say. I would guess that taxes and government spending would have to change to accommodate a government paid healthcare system. It is far far far from an easy issue to tackle. Like T1J says, it's complicated.

[@noahr4951]

@eli eli The individual pay of each doctor is a very microeconomic issue. I expect doctors would make less but not much less. The economics of the entire industry would vastly change if we went to a government funded system. The normal streams of revenue would be turned upside down. There are entire books out there that have tried to answer your question.

[@Swpeloquin]

So at an individual level it would be a violation to force a doctor to provide health care to a client, but at the level of the state, and the law it is fine. Ben Shapiro acts as if a specific doctor would be forced against there will to perform medical procedures instead of there being a non-market source of payment.

[@bizambo100]

It's a silly argument that often gets used. Nobody is forced, it just means that the services are paid by taxes.

[@dickiewongtk]

@@bizambo100 well, to these people paying taxes is being forced...

[@AriJeru]

Dude, this channel is a hidden gem

[@username4570]

Y'all in the States need to socially progress and start catching up even if just so the rest of us can stop getting involved in outdated arguments that our countries have dealt with decades ago.

[@Lyscian420]

I really liked this video. The defense lawyer and emergency care were very well thoughtout examples, and helped me understand the argument better. Liked, and commented, already subbed. :)

[@katakisLives]

Yeah, I agree with you on healthcare, coming from the land of the NHS it seems pretty clear what's the right way to provide healthcare

[@TheSuzberry]

I know I was hugely relieved when I turned 65 and qualified for Medicare.

[@peachapplebanana]

I’ve called myself a “bad libertarian” for a long time. In general I believe in limited government and fiscal responsibility, but I put healthcare within the bounds of government. I wouldn’t call it a “right” but I just don’t see how a modern healthcare system could be properly managed by the free market.

[@tayh.6235]

"Bad libertarian" is definitely where I'm at too lol

[@kingbeauregard]

Really good, thoughtful piece. What I think: healthcare isn't a "right" so much as an obligation of any society worth the name. I tend to agree with conservatives that a "right" cannot be something that someone else is required to provide for you, but I'm good with filing healthcare under the same category as something a worthwhile society makes every reasonable effort to provide for its citizens. The other side of that -- which people don't devote nearly enough thought to -- is that society also needs to make sure that health providers are paid well for their efforts, probably not to "filthy stinking rich" levels, but well enough that they make a comfortable living. Anyone who argues that healthcare is a "right" while answering cost concerns with "we'll just pay doctors less" is not practicing principles so much as selfishness and greed. Medicare and Medicaid are notoriously stingy in their reimbursement rates, and a lot of doctors -- who have their own expenses, from their staffs to malpractice insurance -- could not stay in business if they received nothing but Medicare / Medicaid reimbursement. It's a reality that serious reformers don't lose sight of.

[@kuniosaiki]

During the pandemic I’ve been infinitely more grateful for the NHS, they work tooth and nail to heal the country, and they deserve so much respect. I hope America at some point will be able to create an institution as great as the NHS.

[@kuniosaiki]

SoggyShrimp Proof of this statistic, and it best be from a reputable source.

[@dew7555]

Bruh, you just blew my mind with the right to an attorney thing. Doctors and lawyers are almost universally regarded as two of the most difficult careers to follow and most difficult expertises to cultivate. Comparing advanced medical knowledge to the ability to grow and maintain a backyard garden is like saying there's no difference between the sun and Jupiter because they're both big balls of gas.

[@stuckatthecrossroads]

I truly agree with most everything you are saying! I would only make the suggestion that we start thinking of control over your own body a right. Women don't have this right implicitly like men generally do. (And we all lose autonomy when labeled criminal or insane). So I'm sayin that in a bigger picture, giving women that control of their reproductive capabilities is actually Pro Life, because it's Pro Woman! There's a great Ani DiFranco song called Amendment that makes the point more gracefully, even if from a slightly dated song now... I think you'll find you generally agree with what she's saying. Thank you for your vids! I've only seen a few so far but I'm digging the vibe, your voice is pleasant to listen to, and you are saying good shit that makes me wish I was in an actual conversation with you!!

[@mickelamock2220]

Yess, love your videos. Been watching for years. So thought provoking. Thank you for making these ✨

[@jobeiden]

Hi guys, sorry to be a little off-topic and rambly, but we're overflowing hospitals in Philly and we need all the help we can get. Last week, Mayor Kenney of Philadelphia said the city doesn't have the time or money to continue negotiating with Hahnemann's owner, to use a vacant, decommissioned HOSPITAL to treat COVID-19 patients. Instead, patients will be treated on the floor of the Liacouras Center, a sports and music venue offered up by Temple University. While hospitals are being nationalized in Spain and Ireland in response to this crisis, Philadelphia is worried about angering a real estate speculator who couldn't find a productive use for the building in half a year. We CANNOT afford to sit around and wait for our hospitals to be overwhelmed by this pandemic while Hahnemann remains vacant; the city needs to do whatever it takes to bring Hahnemann under public control now. The coronavirus crisis has exposed the complete inadequacy of our for-profit healthcare system. After the COVID-19 pandemic is behind us, Hahnemann University Hospital must be kept open and run as a public city hospital, funded through taxes on the top 3% of corporations in Philadelphia. City Hall should challenge big moneyed interests, and we need to let them know! Sign and share the petition: phillysocialistalt.us10.list-manage.com/track/click?u=499d34267a96ac28219637ffc&id=b774a2220b&e=d056dc8343

[@RMarr-uy9hf]

A lot of people already made that argument I think, but in France we pay less by person for healthcare and we have a better overall healthcare than in the US. And it’s a public single payer system. We still have private corporation that you can pay directly from your pocket but they take car of the marginal part of the bill that you have to pay. Also, the fact that an efficient healthcare system is as much linked to the right to live that individual may have than it is to the public safety of everybody. Viruses and diseases don’t care to pass from a poor to a rich person, do they ? Having an efficient healthcare system paradoxically makes it less important to have an efficient healthcare.

[@Sky-tg5rt]

I love Ben but I also love you and appreciate your perspective. Really loving this channel! I can't stop binge watching right now!

[@toothpastehombre]

Be all meek in the beginning and dropping truth at the end

[@pandasan406]

It can be illegal in France to not provide help to someone in danger. We are trained in school on how to administer CPR and what to do when you find someone unconscious, stuff like that. I thought it was a pretty normal and logical law to have. I'm quite surprised (but also not so much ? I mean it's the US) it's not the case in the US...

[@anthonynorman7545]

I don't think the question is fair because not helping could be amoral which isn't the same as not moral because most view not moral as immoral. It would be virtuous to help (in most moral systems) but not being virtuous isn't inherently immoral. Like, one has no moral obligation to say thank you but it's virtuous to show gratitude; though, not saying thanking would be amoral.

[@mishapurser7542]

It just seems obvious that any civilised society that is able to has, or ought to have, a nationalised free healthcare system.

[@Plushiecandie]

So ironic that a bunch of people who call themselves pro-life don't want people to have adequate healthcare.

[@mulethedonkey2579]

if you had governments pay insurance companies that could work. And requiring insurance companies to provide exactly how much is required for the patient to stay healthy would be harder to loophole *the government could also reward healthcare-driven innovations based on their use by the people*

[@yarek-karey6902]

I'm not convinced the profit motive drives innovation. In my opinion it hinders it. Consider a company that is incentivized to create a drug that requires frequent and persistent use instead of a one time cure, all due to the profit motive. Return customers.

[@jacobdriscoll8276]

I think your ideas about the social contract are really interesting, but I wish we dove deeper into the idea you touched on when you talked about abortion: who is a person? who is not? who gets to define that? Because we see THAT question being used to deny help to those who need it regularly, and being used to deny healthcare. Is the sick person poor? Gay? A person of color? An immigrant? A taxpayer? A citizen? A worker? A landlord? Trans? A liberal? Uneducated? Because depending on my political ideology, any of those might punt them into the "not a person" territory, and therefore absolve me of having to care about their health or well-being. I'm definitely obligated to try and help "other people" to be healthy. But if I get to define who counts as a person, then it's easy for me to say "Well, I'm not going to tell the CEO of McDondald's what to do, he's a person, I don't want him to be limited in his freedom. But the workers? Well, they don't have real jobs, anyway, so maybe they should've made different choices in life, if they die, that's maybe sad, but it's not like they're *people.* I don't owe them anything." We're an empathetic species, but our empathy is expensive and difficult and it's very easy to decide not to extend it based on some internal logic about who is "worthy."

[@raffyk7541]

Holy crap that counter argument to Ben Shapiro. Never thought about that. Will definitely have to steal that one for conversations with conservatives.

[@MissMoontree]

I mean, Ben isn't that great. He pretends to be logical and factual but just rambles. His whole anti abortion is "Yes, this is emotional, but you can only argue emotional about this", and then he's against public healthcare in the next. He doesn't care about life as soon as it is outside a womb. He really isn't pro life, just pro pregnancy. He really doesn't care about facts if they don't fit his emotions. He just wants to be right and make money. I really don't understand how so many Americans are only pro pregnancy and call themselves pro life. At least my European pro life friends think life should be protected after birth.

[@raffyk7541]

@@MissMoontree Ben is an absolute idiot and a stupid person fake idea of what a smart person is.

[@dickiewongtk]

Just say 'food stamp' and you can destroy his argument about you can't demand bread if you have no money.

[@ethanzebediah]

It is extremely important that we find a way to make sure everyone has access to proactive healthcare without going broke because of it. I pay for private insurance through my employer, but the deductible is so high and my use is so rare that I'd be better off paying cash out of pocket for a doctor's visit. There's no way more young people and healthy people like me are going to want to sign up for healthcare if it does us no good. I'd be okay with paying for healthcare if I didn't also have to pay every (infrequent) time I went to a doctor. There's got to be a way to make it so that the folks who need to enroll in the healthcare system, to keep costs low, can do it without the burden of cost just shifting our way. Personally, I'd be all for a public buy-in system where I can get like cheap medicaid or something and other folks who needed it could get an even cheaper or free version so they can get the help they need. Throw in a bi-monthly therapy session, and I bet a good majority of millennials would be willing to participate.

[@MrsMeow9237]

And then the company you work for pushes you to get an HSA plan because they don't have to cover the cost compared to a PPO plan.

[@asatronaut]

My mom is a Healthcare worker in the US, more specifically a Pharmacy Technician, and she has horror stories about drug companies and insurance companies and how predatory they are, especially with incredibly expensive things like Insulin and Chemo medication, which are literally life saving medications. Whether or not you agree with affordable healthcare the insurance companies need to be stopped. They do not support their patients, they extort them.

[@calicow]

What I don't get is how people can believe we have a right to life and NOT a right to healthcare. You can make the argument that emergent care preserves that right to life, but that's a dire circumstance and it omits people who need ongoing preventative care. A diabetic can't go to the ER every time they need insulin. I mean... I guess they CAN, but that's a far greater burden on the taxpayers, if that's the argument being made. At this point if you don't believe in a person's right to healthcare, you're saying certain people should just die. Private insurance is laughably inept, and not everyone can get it.

[@bizambo100]

My understanding is that right to life means that others cannot put your life at risk. It does not mean that government has to proactively extend your life.

[@arcanewonders9641]

JK756 exactly.

[@butterscotchwm]

Another weird argument I hear as an American is that universal healthcare is "too complicated" as a system, but I've been living in the UK for almost a year now, and accessing basic services from the NHS is pretty easy, if anything a lot easier than accessing a service that requires you to relay information between a private clinic and a private insurance company. You don't have to sort through any bills or copays, it's all paid for as long as you pay your taxes. I know that if you want to get more specialised types of services, like getting diagnosed for ADHD for example, you'll have to get put on a pretty long wait list, which sucks but imo it's better than having poor ppl not have access to adequate basic or emergency healthcare. That being said, free tax-payer universal healthcare acts as an anchor to private costs since they also have to compete w the free healthcare. So it's not nearly as expensive to get private healthcare in the UK either.

[@weljenks]

Great video but I think it’s better when you speak into the camera. Some aspect of your humanity is lost when there’s just a drawing on the screen.

[@TheMajicHobo77]

When did you move to toon town T1J? XD Another great video, thanks for your work.

[@dragoncatoverload]

In America, we let people who we could save die and we give help to people who can’t be saved provided they have the money....this system needs fixed.

[@badasunicorn6870]

The idea that a right which requires someone else to do something not being a right makes any right nullified. I can't have the right not to be murdered on the street, unless other people are obliged to not murder me. And you might argue that's not doing something, but if you have to stop your car not to run me over, that's action. Additionally no right would have any practical impact on people without enforcement, and education of what rights are there. If you can't access your list of rights, or of there is nobody there to protect them, then you don't have rights. Due to this fact, that all rights require others to provide something, whether it's directly related to the right, or general enforcement, it makes more sense to think about obligations. Everyone is obligated to act certain ways to ensure that they don't violate what we call people's rights. This also lets us see what's implied in a right, and reminds us who should be obliged to do something (the answer is often the state) in order to fulfill the obligation. After all our society and lives aren't built on an absence of things but on constant action in some form or another. I mean, if you have the right to for example, bear arms, then who is to say the selling of weapons is only legal if done by the state, and the prices are deliberatly unreasonable. It wouldn't violate your right to buy and posess weapons, only affordable, not state distributed weapons.

[@simialogue]

Am I the only one with a cat who was constantly jumping out of their earphones, whipping their heads around to see what's up? Oh, and as a Canadian, I submit that healthcare is most definitely an inalienable right.

[@mihalyvadorgrafett2759]

the background music makes me think of t1j as a historia civilis alias

[@ebuslamentee5963]

They have a right to it if they can pay for it.

[@GBfanatic15]

if someone is so desperate they feel like they have to steal bread....I'D GIVE THEM THE FUCKING BREAD because to me that falls under the moral obligation to help other people. in fact the idea that we have to PAY to have basic needs like food and water and shelter met continues to blow my fucking mind. healthcare is a part of that basic right....a right to life to me means that someone shouldn't have to end up fucking homeless or close to it just to pay their fucking medical bills to keep them alive

[@JoshuaMartinez-ml5hl]

This video has convinced me that it is a right, and is hands down the most well-articulated argument I have ever heard. With that being said, my main concerns do become the cost of it all as well as it not fixing the main issues that keep healthcare so expensive. Same with Free college. The main issues aren't addressed and will cause a huge price increase

[@TrueMohax]

A ‘Human Right’ is always readily available. You can Speak, Think, and Believe what you want, but a service provided by another is a privilege. Even Breathing is a privilege since you are technically taking advantage of an outside resource. You Rights comes from you, not from others.

[@JoshuaMartinez-ml5hl]

@@TrueMohax And while that is the train of thought I had, only thing that puts a stop to that is a right to an attorney, which is a service.

[@TrueMohax]

@@JoshuaMartinez-ml5hl The Right gives you the Choice, it doesn’t guarantee you an attorney. In order for get around medical conditions, language barriers, level of education, and government interference, the Right is there to ensure all parties are equally capable of being on the same level. Much like the 2nd Amendment, it’s there to ensure your other Rights are protected.

[@Mieze0503]

In Germany there is a punishable Form of Not-helping... it is called „unterlassene Hilfeleistung“... if you see someone in trouble or an injured person, you have to call an ambulance or police at least or ask someelse for help, if you have a phone. If you don‘t - you can be punished for „unterlassene Hilfeleistung“. Criminal Code (StGB) Section 323c Failure to provide assistance; Disability of helping persons (1) Anyone who does not provide help in the event of an accident or common danger or emergency, although this is necessary and can be expected from the circumstances, in particular without significant personal risk and without violating other important obligations, shall be punished with imprisonment for up to one year or with a fine . (2) Anyone who, in these situations, hinders a person who is helping or trying to help a third party will also be punished...... But in Germany everyone has healthcare insurance... if you don‘t have a job, government does pay your insurance... so there are Never Strange costs because of calling an ambulance or being injured or whatever 😅

[@aidenLjmz]

This whole video was that "I don't know how to tell you you should care about other people" meme.

[@Ethan-nk8cf]

There's a pretty serious problem with how you address the 'you cannot have a right to another's services' argument. You equivocate two definitions of 'right,' a prescriptive and descriptive definition. The argument is saying that you cannot have a moral (prescriptive) right to another's services. This is in response to the argument made that people have a moral right to health care therefore the government should provide it to those without it. However, the rights you refer to are not moral rights; they are legal (descriptive) rights, meaning they are things that are indiscriminately provided to the public by the government. Very few conservative ideologues or theoreticians would say you have a moral right to a lawyer, and few would say that citizens in a country where no lawyer is provided are living in a state of moral deprivation (In fact, in civil trials lawyers are not provided, and few people care. The stakes here are lower but nonetheless if you had a moral right to a lawyer it would seem to apply here as well.). Similarly with the right to remain silent. I don't think its obvious that it is morally wrong for a democratic government to compel its citizens to honestly testify in a court room. Nevertheless, it was decided that in the United States you have a right to not testify or give evidence (in certain cases) if you do not want to, hence there is no moral right to remain silent but there is a legal right to remain silent. Naturally then, if the government indiscriminately provided healthcare to everyone then even Ben Shapiro would say it is a right, but only in a legal sense, not in a moral sense. So essentially you cannot dismiss the argument that one cannot have a right to another's services on the grounds that we already do, since these are two different definitions of the term 'right'- one with a moral injunction and one that is simply descriptive.

[@DoubleThinkTwice]

Step by step guide for "We cannot afford it" folks: 1. Half the national military budget 2. Pay for it all with some to spare to actually pay everybody involved a living salary "But free market!!!" The military gives out government bidding contracts, right? No reason to not have that for healthcare. In fact, that gives the government a lot more bargaining power than medical companies extorting individual patients, leading to lower prices for treatments and medications. This is precisely what competition is supposed to achieve: Efficiency; by supplying sufficiently quality for the lowest possible price. "This doesn't work!" It does though. Literally look at any of the European countries who've done precisely that for decades now. Yes yes, all of those countries are constantly bickering over how much money their healthcare services should have exactly, and bickering over what can or cannot be made more efficiently, but at the same time, people don't suffer unnecessarily and aren't put into debt unnecessarily. It actually does work, and the countries doing it also manage to remain wealthy (or "great", if you absolutely have to use that word).

[@Hayseus712]

Personally, I'm of the opinion that healthcare is not a human right, but SHOULD be a legal right. Now that mostly sounds like a semantics argument on the surface (justifiably so), but there's an important distinction in my opinion. A human right is something that belongs to us by nature of our existence as humans. If you don't believe that kind of thing even exists, that's fine, but that's how I view it. However, a legal right is given and protected by a legislative body/government. I actually think Shapiro (gag) was on the right track (though he worded it pretty poorly). I don't think we can have a human right to something created/provided by someone else. If that were the case, then human beings were being denied many human rights just by nature of being alive in times before certain inventions/advancements were made, which just doesn't sound right to me. I also think we DO have a responsibility to help others in need. Failing to do so when we have the capacity to is extremely immoral. So, why do I make the distinction? Ultimately, I think it's dangerous to use "human rights" as an umbrella term to refer to anything that would improve a person's quality of life/standard of living. For instance: is housing a human right? From some perspectives, certainly! This is, again, something provided by a third party that is immoral to deny when we have the capacity to provide it. So, we provide housing for everyone (which is a GOOD thing, in case I'm not being clear). Next, food. Do we have a human right to food? Again, arguably so. After all, someone who cannot eat will obviously starve and die eventually. So we provide food to everyone (again, a good thing and the correct thing to do). Then clothing. Though not immediately always necessary to living (except in cases where a climate is extreme enough to require warm clothes to prevent freezing to death), people should be adequately clothed, and being clothed should not be contingent on a person's ability to afford that clothing (once more, a good thing). What about wifi? In the 21st century, living without internet in many societies is almost impossible, so it would certainly be fair to argue that a human right to internet access exists. But we also need devices to connect to the internet, so we would also need to acknowledge a human right to owning a computer. We also, then, need to acknowledge a human right to owning a cell phone. After all, phones are a piece of modern tech that are, again, nearly impossible to function without in modern society. We can follow this logic to its end and realize that, if we use "human rights" as too broad a term, it's possible to recognize nearly any modern convenience, regardless of its ultimate necessity to life, as a human right. And if we believe it is the responsibility of our government to provide/protect our human rights, then we give our government full control over the distribution of all goods and services to its citizens. The American government. The one that can't even be trusted to follow its own basic rules on days ending in "y". There is no universe in which any government, ESPECIALLY the American government, provides for its people fairly and equally in a way that guarantees their human rights, regardless of how you define them. The US can't even seem to protect even the most basic interpretation of human rights, like the right to not be gunned down by police in the street for no reason. Ultimately, we have a moral obligation to provide for others to the best of our ability. I just think that considering these provisions a human right (which, again, is different from a legal right) can lead to dangerous ends given enough time, so I think it's worth our while to consciously distinguish between a human right and a necessary legal right/moral good. I believe that the language we use to talk about these things matters immensely in the long run, and we would benefit greatly from a more critical analysis of the language we use and how it can affect our moral aims and ideas for the improvement of human societies.

[@scottperdue3257]

Great counter argument with bringing up lawyers and juries, I had not thought of it that way.

[@ConcertsAtHome]

Great video! Really enjoy your channel. I think the idea that markets drive innovation is something you should research further. I'm certainly no expert either, but everything I've seen about it shows that that idea is far more myth than reality. From what I've seen incentives can create innovation sure, but at least when it comes to helping people there's already more than enough incentive for most people involved in such fields. Competition mostly gets in the way where as cooperation makes innovation more likely.

[@ATastyEnd]

I think the issue runs deeper then just standard health care. In a country like america where there is failing food system and rampant obesity getting sick is inevitable. I’ve lived in both the united states and canada and when I lived in the states I just knew more people who were sick and were dependent on health care. It seemed like everyone I knew, knew someone who was extremely ill or had chronic disease. In Canada it just doesn’t seem to be as bad. Our obesity rate is lower and over all we have a food system that is more reliable to provide healthy food. I believe for a country like a america to provide free health care for its growing sick population you will have to start farther down the chain. Start with education on exercise, proper eating and mental health then I think the shift towards universal basic health care will be more attainable. It has me thinking does the right to life start at a right to healthy food and is the government infringing on our right to life by allowing companies to operate who clearly provide products that ruin health and kill.

[@M3TR01DFANBOY]

You never ever have a right to another's labor. That includes Health Care Services

[@oomar4597]

so going by your logic you also do not deserve a free lawyer The reason why we have a society is so we can use ours labor’s so we can make sure people around us including ourselves are taken care of

[@andrewmandrona7891]

And a lot of the profit-driven innovation in the healthcare industry doesn't need to be that way. At least in the US, it's almost impossible to present new drug treatments or medical devices without an insane amount of money to back it up, meaning that if an individual or small company comes up with a great idea (as is often the case), they have to be picked up by a large corporation to stand a chance, and chances are that corporation will either needlessly up-charge the final product or decide not to market it for fear of competing with themselves. My point is, the actual people designing and making medical devices aren't the ones doing it for money, and they usually aren't the ones who see most it. It's the people they work for and the ones trying to sell products.

[@michaelthomas9976]

Someone help me out here, as I am ignorant of these things. What is keeping individual States from offering statewide healthcare if that's what their constituents vote for? California can offer free healthcare, Mississippi can stay private if they so choose, etc.

[@alanlayton6295]

Even if health care is a commodity or system is terribly broken. Just try to find out what a procedure is going to cost before you have it so you can shop around. We have the worst possible system for health care. Not only are their financial barriers, the barriers are obscene.

[@PumpedAaron]

Off topic but broadly speaking i’ve been feeling a lot of inspiration from your channel, and I’d like to make an effort someday to really contribute to the community around here. Thanks!

[@fidomusic]

I have watched a few T1J videos and all the ones I've seen are good. But this one is excellent. Very well argued. Great stuff.

[@thenecroticfiend1692]

I live in the UK. So the NHS (national health service) is typically highly regarded and loved by the population. Its something a lot of people feel proud for having. The NHS isn't perfect at all but a lot of people I know wouldn't be here if health care wasn't so widely available for working class citizens.

[@msjkramey]

"Healthcare is a right. Healthcare. Is. A right." "We're in the middle of a plague. A fucking plague." Those are quotes from the AIDS epidemic, but it's very relevant today. Check out Lindsay's video for more kzbin.info/www/bejne/p2HUl3mYqa6da9k

[@elliottmiller3282]

Ok here is where I caught your argument, as well intentioned as it is, "Profit motive provides a barrier to healthcare.". This is partially true but any competitive system will drive costs down until things are appropriately priced. There is an economic reality to healthcare. There are only so many doctors, there are only so many hospitals, and so on. furthermore, the number of Doctors is artificially limited. While you can desire to give people access to government services, you cannot ignore the ultimate costs these services have. Take being a public defender, for example. Most have triple or quadruple the caseload they can reasonably work. For this reason, they can't provide an adequate service. Same thing for most other government services, especially those that compete with the private sector. In most cases it is better to fly than amtrak. Social security alone doesn't fund an adequate retirement. Only the post office really comes to mind and even that works together with the private sector. I noticed something. The increasing deductibles occured during obamacare. And I know of a lot of evidence that the ACA caused premiums and deductibles to rise. But it makes sense. Healthcare became more expensive to companies and thus more expensive to consumers. I want to regress a bit on the whole "social contracts thing" if we are to go that route. Helping someone in immediate danger makes sense as a moral contract, if you can reasonably assume you can actually do it. If you want to yell at someone to avoid a car fine. However, if you attempt to set a broken limb or perform open heart surgery, it would be immoral if you don't have skills. I think this is similiar to healthcare. Many people that claim to want to help others don't have the skills to solve the problems that make healthcare expensive. There are huge nuances and economic considerations as well. So no I don't think we should compell them to. If you want to solve healthcare problems and make it cheap. Fine . Do it on your own. Do it as a business, or even a nonprofit. Expand your service. Others will join you an you can make healthcare more affordable. The free market does this all the time. It actually figures out the solutions that government can not.

[@wahn10]

I like the way your mind works and I find your videos truly thoughtful and thought provoking. Well reasoned and cogent. BTW I hope you get a law degree someday, if you don't already have one. I'd want you as my attorney.

[@alexrose20]

the fact that ppl question whether those who can't afford healthcare should be ostracized is disgusting but I've been disappointed by humanity so much it's not surprising

[@melsch8740]

In Germany it is illegal to not help someone, like seeing a car crash and not stopping to help

[@purplehood8418]

Melanie Schaefer Welcome to America 🤷🏻‍♀️

[@jasontiemann5566]

This is an amazing video, but I have one sticking point. The free market does not drive innovation, in fact most modern advances in medicine were paid for by the government or discovered by people who were passionate about it and worked on it despite not getting much/any money for it (for example, see the woman who invented the mRNA vaccine that saved so many lives recently).

[@lloroshastar6347]

Being from the UK I would die to protect our health service, I find when I hear about the US health system it sounds appalling, I can't imagine how I would survive under such a system. So many people I know would have died if they lived in the US, I dislocated my shoulder whilst I was in college, I would have had to drop out if I lived in the US, but because I live here I could continue my studies. Without a doubt I am 100% behind universal healthcare and I think the fact that the US allows their health system to continue is disgusting. Also, I don't like what Shapiro has to say on most things but more than anything his voice is incredibly annoying, why do so many far right apologists have such irritating voices?

[@bizambo100]

Maybe because they tend to be highly egotistical and this is reflected in their voice?

[@vlogo4371]

Wait, you had me till you said most medical advances are coming from markets. Most are coming from publicly funded universities, government orgs, and grant based research. It's literally paid for by the people, not private markets.

[@antifagoat6591]

But all of those organizations are distinct entities and have some private rights. Research is also funded by corporations and universities by tuition from their students. It's basically a series of de-centralized commodities that drip feed back to de-centralized healthcare.

[@04beni04]

I would be interested to know if you have anything to back this up. Because while I'd really like to agree with you, I've been in the position of assessing the academic validity of various studies, and I've been troubled to see how much academic research is funded by the very industries that stand to benefit by the findings. It seems pretty universal, too, since those governments and grants that allocate funding to public universities tend to be influenced by corporate lobbying. It's just more subtle than direct funding, is all. I can never figure out why this isn't considered an inherent conflict of the worst sort, or why anyone expects these industries to police themselves ethically. I mean, think about Monsanto cherry picking which agricultural science studies get funding and which get enforced NDAs, the sugar industry demonizing healthy fats, the NRA manipulating studies about firearms, and the historic suppression of environmental science by oil and automotive industries. It's hard to imagine that pharmaceutical companies are any more ethical.

[@IconoclastX]

well you better pray to god the government recruits everyone in the world who can make useful advancements, because nobodies going to be able to do it on their own because oopsie authoritarianism

[@zweck4629]

Only giving people emergency healthcare is not only detrimental to the patient, its also to the provider. If you cant afford 1000$ or so per month for your insulin you can call an ambulance every couple of days when you crash, damaging your health and raking up huge bills. Then one day you won't make it in time and die.

[@raymondcarter8915]

Yes a right to a healthcare provider would be like a right to legal representation. Making the healthcare system and providers just as slow with overworked as the legal system. What you don't pay upfront with the cost, you pay in waiting time and quality...and if it's a life-threatening surgery you could pay with your life.