A peculiar pair of pocket percussion pistols with firearms expert, Jonathan Ferguson

[@LeonJakub]

That explains my Belgian pinfire revolver with a stupidly long barrel, with a bead sight miles away from the muzzle!

[@ronwingrove683]

"We have an old-fashioned website, and also three even more old-fashioned museums...." And long may they remain so, sir, even old-fashioned as they are!

[@slick_slicers]

The interesting thing would be to find a pair that had been cut and used. The uniqueness of ‘Damascus’ would be sufficient to prove they were cut down and their being used would prove how it was all done.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

I totally agree; the hard part would be finding both of a separated pair. I imagine that gun sellers were splitting them and then selling them individually instead of in pairs. Add time and reselling or loss of firearms and they are probably pretty scarce.

[@loddude5706]

'So Baldrick, using your new dueling pistol, whatever happens, I can be absolutely sure of getting my own back; splendid'

[@thepenultimateninja5797]

Taurus does something similar to this day. They can't import their snubby revolvers into the US because of a similar law. They make the revolvers with an extension on the end of the barrel long enough to meet the legal requirements. The extension is machined off once the gun has cleared the import process.

[@carlettoburacco9235]

Jonathan , if you don't understand Italian gun laws from the past or present, don't worry. Nobody does. These laws are illogical, sometimes dangerous and often impossible to enforce. They are written from people that have "encyclopedic ignorance" about guns. Years ago some genius in Rome decided : crossbows must be classified BY LAW as firearms. (not "treated as" or "follow the same law") The director of "The National Proof House of Firearms and Ammunition" send to the minister a letter: "Dear Minister, any firearm commercially available in Italy must pass a forced test with a increased charge by xy % of propellant over specifications to obtain our mark. Please send some of your "experts" (in quote in the letter) to explain to our technicians how to do it with a crossbow." They changed the text: "Crossbows are firearms exempt from testing." Maybe now it has changed... probably crossbows are classified like nuclear weapons...... or crochet tools.

[@KhabarovVictor]

I don't think that a crossbow would have any issue withstanding double or even quadruple propellant charge.

[@willemventer3935]

Just show that all politicians are power hungry fools, and should be held under strict control at all times. Maybe they should even be forced to be permitted and prove why they should have the power that they do have.

[@ericconnor8419]

@@willemventer3935 Of course they are, nobody else would do the job. Normal people do not want to be politicians, they are a specialised as a razor clam.

[@TheArgieH]

Or really peeved bendy sticks with string for playing violins, well it works in English anyway

[@TroopperFoFo]

All I can think of reading that is. kzbin.infoy5uWLX3sbz8

[@derekp2674]

Thanks Jonathan and team. Really interesting to see that clever gunsmiths were exploiting legal loopholes that long ago.

[@REXOB9]

Truly unique! Thanks for the explanation. I thought maybe it was for close dueling - see who gets killed by the exploding barrel when the projectiles meet in the middle.

[@Getpojke]

Beautiful pieces, the grain in the burrs alone is something else never mind the rest of the work. Congratulations of hitting over 205K subscribers too, very much well deserved.

[@tarmaque]

I have a 16ga side-by-side shotgun with the same burled maple for a stock, and it is indeed gorgeous. It is a low grade "L.C. Smith" shotgun made by Hunter Arms, some time prior to 1945. My Dad bought it from someone he knew for cheap in the 70's because the right-hand barrel was shot out. He took it to a gunsmith to see what could be done with it, and the gunsmith inserted a 45-70 barrel inside the damaged 16ga barrel and put some rifle sights on top. Now personally I would have preferred .45 Long Colt or .44 Magnum, but that's what they did. However it is a spectacular gun, regardless of its utility and in spite of the poor condition of the metal finish. (And to answer your question- No, it is not a Damascus barrel, and it has no engraving.) I do not believe the stock is original. I suspect it was fitted to the gun in the 1950's, and it has a pronounced drop to the butt like a European style shotgun.

[@TrondBørgeKrokli]

Thanks a lot for the explanation of the ways to work around legal limitations. I was scratching my head at the beginning how these were supposed to work in such a configuraiton. Knowing that this is some sort of making the guns legal to transport, either to avoid having to produce a gun permit or working around a limitation of barrel length, makes this a much more satisfying piece of knowledge about well made firearms from a forgotten era, and what kind of limitations some gunmakers had to deal with to avoid said limitations.

[@leoneldoleschal1194]

Finally!! my question is Answer!!!! Great guns jonathan Ferguson!

[@twatmunro]

I first visited Belgium in the 70's and was really surprised to see shops that sold handguns all over the place. If I'd ever seen a gun shop in the UK (I live in a major city and I'm not sure I had) the only guns they ever had in the window would be airguns and shotguns.

[@metamorphicorder]

And not even that now.

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

@@metamorphicorder cucked

[@brucelee3388]

There is an error in the captions - it says 'Turn Pistols 1813' but Jonathan correctly says 1850.

[@JJadx]

love this channel. unfortunately most museums here in the Netherlands aren't as social media savvy. wish they where! museums are such a important source of knowledge. glad you're actually sharing off location as well.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Museums would get a lot more traffic if they did have a social media presence, since they could attract all the people who share pertinent interests. And if they interacted with people on social media they could better gauge people's interest in other parts of their collections. The Bovington Tank Museum is really good about this, they are really doing a good job of presenting their collection online and interacting with potential museum patrons on various platforms. And in recent years Jonathon is doing with the Royal Armories, and his book on British bullpup rifle development is fantastic and if you don't own a copy you are wrong. I think TheirTubers like Forgotten Weapons, C&Rsenal, and InRange are doing a great job of finding and presenting obscure, fascinating, and historically/socially important firearms. The same way Mat Easton at Scholagladiatoria is doing for historical melee weapons.

[@JJadx]

@@kevinsullivan3448 yes for sure! Honestly there should be a collective of museums so they can teach each other how to do this kind of stuff well. I just found out that our Rijksmuseum does have a proper channel and it's pretty good!

[@maffioli14]

I subbed because the gamespot vids would always pop up while rewatching forgotten weapons.

[@zoinksxscooby]

Those are beautiful firearms. I'm glad you guys kept them intact even if it would be neat to see.

[@slaughterround643]

_Would_ it be neat to see? "Bog-standard pocket pistols that _used_ to be one pistol-combo thingie, trust me bro" isn't exactly an eye-catching museum piece

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Just a thought, maybe the Royal Armories could find a machinist who could make a facsimile set and do a video of cutting the barrel in half and putting on the crown and sights.

[@Eralen00]

@@kevinsullivan3448 you wouldn't even have to make the full set, you could just make the barrel. The actual gun part wouldn't need to be modified in any way. It wouldn't be complicated, a few operations on a lathe and you're done. You could even use regular mild steel if you're not planning on firing them, and even if you did fire them (unlikely) but mild steel is strong enough to withstand the pressures of a small black powder charge like that.

[@richarddixon7276]

These pistols are really nice , and presumably unfired , it's quite amazing though understandable the lengths people go too to circumvent legislation . Thanks Jonathan .

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Uncaring Governments are uncaring. If your politicians aren't dirt bags then you only have to worry about Democrats murdering them.

[@kingfishercomputing9497]

Craigslist entry “Turn pistols with unsawn barrel - only fired once” 😂

[@spacedoubt15]

That's got to be one of the weirdest pieces of arcana in the collection, thank you so much for sharing!

[@cmck472]

I've just seen the room I want to be locked in for the four-day weekend!

[@0neDoomedSpaceMarine]

I can't imagine any other reason to do this that makes any sense at all, so I'm convinced these must have been put together to skirt such a legal requirement.

[@longjonwhite]

Fascinating and surprising that they have survived the temptation of the hacksaw all those years!

[@samsham8218]

Neat!! Beautiful workmanship.

[@astridvallati4762]

The Mention of Italy is still applicable today " Fatta la Legge, gia' Trovato L'inganno"...The Law Made, already Found the Loophole".... Doc AV

[@jimfrodsham7938]

Fascinating as always. Thank you Jonathan

[@benr3799]

That alliteration did not go unnoticed, Pablo Picasso would be proud

[@kahn04]

The museum I worked at has a gorgeous pair of flintlock turn-off pistols on display supposedly owned by one of Napoleon’s sisters

[@CeltKnight]

Beautiful work! Interesting to see that having to skirt gun/import laws is nothing new.

[@samholdsworth420]

Anytime the Royal armories uploads a Jonathan video #blessed lol

[@foxtrotromeo25]

Absolutely fascinating, Jonathan! Never heard of these. Every day's a school day!

[@arthurneddysmith]

The only other explanation I can think of is to avoid a firearm tax where the tax is based upon the number of barrels you own.

[@electrolytics]

Great channel. Thanks alot.

[@mnk9073]

Whoever came up with the idea must have been an avid enjoyer of Tuscan cigars since those are essentially pistols Ammezzato...

[@drdoom-skull2244]

Basically, it's like books that used to be sold with pages uncut, knives with unsharpened blades, etc. Although that was more for economic reason.

[@Eulemunin]

Beautiful

[@agoogleaccount2861]

I've seen the same marks on a parasol handle pistol

[@Chiller01]

Made a joke about duelling pistols but read comments and found out I wasn’t so original. I’ll just leave this as an algorithmic comment.

[@jklmnopski7421]

And I thought it was going to be a gun game, similar to the wishbone game, where two players would fire blanks (or just percussion caps) down the joined barrel and see who fired first. Or something like that.

[@ironanvil1]

Could also be used for a *really* hardcore pistol duel

[@aferguson850]

Congrats on the subscriber milestone!

[@Gagis]

Is there any chance you will feature the Sjögren inertial operated rifle on this channel? I'm a tad curious about how it compares with the Sjögren shotgun and the Benelli shotguns and pistol and how and why it failed to become a success. Well, that's assuming there is a copy that has survived, but I suppose if there is one it must be in the Royal Armouries.

[@stephencresswell4760]

I wondered if it was to give the new owner a choice of barrel length. Or if it could be sold (and taxed) as a single item.

[@richiehoyt8487]

A cigarette manufacturer (I think it was the people behind 'Death' brand cigarettes) used this same ploy as a tax or excise duty dodge back in the '90's (can't remember which). Basically, one very long cigarette with tobacco at the ends, and the filter in the middle, scored or perforated at the midpoint so you could break it apart for 'ease of smokeability', or something (the superfluous end to be discarded). Effectively, it was almost as if you had two cigarettes joined together as one in such a way as it was barely a moments work to separate them. For some reason the UK Government, rather unsportingly, took the view that the latter was the case. Good while it lasted though - I mean, whatever one thinks of cigarettes (or tax), one has to admire the initiative and 'outside the box' thinking!

[@AshleyPalmer91]

Would love to see a video of you going up and down the racks picking out ur favourites

[@julianmhall]

As the late great Paul Daniels said 'Hey diddle diddle, we're working a fiddle!'

[@ThatGeezer]

I'd assumed they were short-range duelling pistols for duellists with poor aim...

[@3vom918]

I was thinking it allowed for duellists to have a duel and both walk away with their honour and bodies intact.

[@skorza212]

They’re for people really bad at duelling, two suicidal people really bad at duelling. Or a really intense version of rock, paper, scissors - whoever catches the least shrapnel when the thing explodes wins

[@davydatwood3158]

I suppose one alternate possibility is the factory tooling produced barrels of a certain length and it was easier to make barrels two at a time. It seems less likely, though - the decoration on the barrels *might* be machine made, but with the barrel screws connexions (what's the right term for that?) having to be hand-fitted, surely the barrels would have been cut down before that step was reached if this was just an artefact of the machining process.

[@williamowings6857]

😁👏👏 I don't make a big deal out of it and just accept "Damascus" as a colloquialism. But yeah. Technically there is a big difference between Pattern welded and the almost impossible Wootz. Mokume is another process that's hard to reproduce. I have a couple of 5 gallon buckets of failures I haven't ever melted down. It's like a library of "What NOT to do."

[@johnnydjiurkopff]

I'm not even a smith, just a weapons enthusiast and i feel your aggravation.

[@strydyrhellzrydyr1345]

Does The Armorer's Bench.. have a video explaining about Demascus and Woots steel... Or is it only in paper form... I really wanna see it.. hoping their is a video about it???

[@pisacenere]

I'm italian and knowing about italian laws I think the idea came from an italian and is real

[@mariotupek9969]

When I saw this in the announcement I first thought it was another attempt to have two shots from the same weapon. Do you think this could be used as two bullets from the same barrel? Maybe a faster way to load, I just don't know how the threads will behave at the end of the barrel after firing.

[@janslavik5284]

I'm disappointed that there isn't a dotted line in the middle with the words "cut here" next to it

[@johnosb4777]

Only obscure other explanation is during proofing they'd use another breech as they're always at hand. May be wrong as usually has a plug system?

[@FloodExterminator]

Could you fire one of them without cutting down the barrel?

[@Throatwobbler_Mangrove]

I wish you would have said whether or not the barrel was rifled or not? If so the rifling would be in opposite directions between the pair if cut as intended.

[@borjesvensson8661]

Thats not how spirals work.

[@jeffprice6421]

Odd that they didn't abbreviate the ornament at the center of the barrel to facilitate the work when cut apart???

[@joearnold6881]

I prefer to think of them as dueling pistols for tight spaces.

[@lukzor90]

Ofc im no expert and probably biased, but that 'Crown and G' mark looks a bit like something you'd see on Swedish weapons and things. A version of a "Carl Gustaf" mark perhaps, being an export weapon, is it a possibility that's an explanation? I found a picture of a 1852 pistol from the Carl gustaf riflefactory which has a similar Crown over C. Just a thought

[@xsStudios]

*Gasps* Has the Royal Armories finally caught onto your on point Tshirt game?! 😥 (An interesting pair, with a truly fascinating story: thank you)

[@busternineshoes]

What is the bore? Do you have to take the barrel off to load? I'm intrigued...

[@AThousandYoung]

Maybe it's intended as one long barrel for two guns...unscrew one, shoot the other, screw the first back in, unscrew the second, shoot again. Can bullets go all the way through in both directions?

[@ablemagawitch]

Short answer, this is a smooth bore barrel, so if you unscrewed the other side(removing the barrel obstruction) you could shoot through it. Although it's not what is was designed for , nor what was in your best interest as an owner/user. .......Long answer, while possible not a good idea, due to multiple issues, especially for long term continued usage. There are several issues, the first is thread wear (from just use of turning the two sections), and then comes the fire forming the metal from the heat and force of that gun powder explosion and then having tho break free those threads. Don't forget that residue getting into the threads and acting as a thread locker. There would also be issues (or risks of it happening with that probability is 100% sooner rather than later) of cross threading and/or force threading for getting the barrel sides mistakenly reversed/flipped and confused about which half went to which side. When needing to fire the gun for that second shot. Because when in danger, your cognitive ability is impaired, along with your dexterity ability being greatly reduced. So mistakes would be made.... With Adrenaline strength over correcting those threads not threading right.... Just look at videos of people in gun fights fumbling with magazines and trying to reload , something that you just have to push the magazine in the gun until it clicks...... How many have issues, trying to put it in backwards, not eject the old and push the new magazine into the empty one still the gun, then comes general just getting into the magazine well, there is reason most have "Flared" funnel like entrances to help....Defensive Gun Use (DGU) is on Reddit and/or plenty of videos on here of police Then what if the loaded "shot" moves down into the barrel? Which makes storing both halves loaded a bad idea. Not to mention if that loosely packed ammo/bullet/round rock rolls down into the barrel, you now have an obstruction that makes it a hand held pipe bomb with a squeeze trigger detonation. You got time to look down the barrel of a loaded gun when you need to be shooting someone, while you have to quickly unscrew one half then screw on another half? Making sure that one still has the full charge and load still in it. Luxury of time is not something you have when you have to use gun for self defense.....So this fails on many issues for being bad and that it was obviously a way to comply with bad laws. As these have no rifling(land grooves) in the barrel meaning smooth bore barrel the direction wouldn't matter as long as you unscrewed the other half barrel obstruction blockage. You would however develop problems on the hand fitted threads on both ends for the muzzle blast side, due to corrosive gun powder effects, anything hitting those hand fitted threads and messing with their threaded section. Not to mention the heat and force of the explosion of the gun powder pushing the threaded parts against each other and of any debris being blown into the higher parts of the threads. This was made and meant to have the barrel cut in half or at some combination of lengths. The " Locks" action and trigger assembly were the expensive harder part to make, a barrel was cheaper. The threading was a price increase, but threads were custom and hand fitted back then and to each side, so it is not like today where you can get replacement barrels that are standard and swap them in and out with head space check....... When theses were made "Corrosive" ammo, technically the gun powder (primer and/or percussion caps are still a mix of corrosive and non corrosive today) was the normal and many didn't think about the chemical effects, a salt water environment of Italy for the water and winds near the coast would add to that rust and corrosion issues. The long answer has so much for each reason why that would be bad to use both halves on the same barrel branch out into long subjects . The having multiple pistols was because it took so long to reload, it gave you better chances, "Duck Foot" Pistols were also a solution for multiple attackers and are separate but related subject but equally a rabbit hole.

[@admiralpercy]

4:45 he explains why. 2:40 he starts explaining why they're stuck together, 3:31 threatens to again

[@clifbradley]

What is that rifle behind you to the right with the thick foregrip?

[@AClockworkWizard]

I'm wondering what happens to pieces like this. Do they become part of a museum exposition at some point or are they doomed to languish in some collection drawer until the curator takes them out to show to someone?

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

The typical museum only displays a small percentage of what they keep for posterity. Whether it's publicly displayed or not depends on a number of factors including what the audience wants. However, our collection is available for researchers to visit by appointment, and we also actively research things ourselves, so very little "languishes", I like to think. Also, digital stuff like videos - that's the whole point of these, to share the collection with interested people and to interest people who aren't interested yet :)

[@gunsforevery1]

I volunteered at a museum every weekend for about a year. It took about 6 months to research, propose, design, get approval, get a budget approved, (I ended up paying out of pocket just to get it started) and built for display. Museums only have so much display space and if your display isn’t particularly popular, it won’t draw in people. If people don’t come, museum revenue goes down. Revenue goes down, museum closes.

[@Ogaitnas900]

I didn't even see the other end for like 2 minutes, my brain just blocked it.

[@CGM_68]

Matthew Moss's short series of articles have proved not to be so easy to find. Would it be possible for you to link them? On reflection, perhaps they are only available on his The Armourer's Bench's Patreon Page

[@Shadow_Hawk_Streaming]

I wonder if these were ordered by vendors or end customers to be imported

[@thewidgetmachine]

I believe the crown over G mark denotes a rifled barrel

[@ericlondon5731]

My fist impression was the idea that they were dealer or sales samples.

[@reginaldsafety6090]

I think this was actually made for a kind of "Chicken" game to be played by 2 people.

[@paulancill3872]

Is a Damascus barrel-the same as a “wire wound barrel?

[@onbedoeldekut1515]

One might either wonder whether it was a way to transport brand new items. How better to prove the set isn't second hand or compromised somehow?

[@vigunfighter]

Dueling pistols for Siamese twins? Or just Siamese dueling pistols?

[@kirkmooneyham]

Engineers often beat politicians...and in this case, in quite the interesting fashion.

[@kebabsvein1]

Its like the triggers on the early Patterson revolvers as well 😎 I guess it would be easy for Colt to use a system familiar to him at that time…

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Yes, although why he put them on the 'Belt Model' I have no idea.

[@denisripley8699]

Maybe first instance of MAD for duelling protagonists ?

[@shovelchop81bikeralex52]

I'm just wondering how the failure rate of pattern welded barrels compares to mono steel forged barrels? In blades for example, they are spectacular but looking closely at some of mine I worry about possible inclusions and delaminations causing weak points.

[@gunsforevery1]

Using vintage barrels, they will fail. They tend to rust from the inside out through the bore. Vintage Damascus steel barrels are strongly recommended to be for display only as there is no way to check their integrity.

[@shovelchop81bikeralex52]

@@gunsforevery1 Oh sorry I meant when they were new, I understand even then gun testing wasn't a popular job ergo the tale told in 'One Upon A Time In Mexico'.

[@gunsforevery1]

The Damascus barrel would definitely be weaker imo. There’s too many weak points from it being made from a welded strip.

[@shovelchop81bikeralex52]

@@gunsforevery1 I know, I was hoping for numbers, ratios etc.. of the time as the Belgians like the Swiss and Germans tend to record everything.

[@luked2767]

I assumed it was for nations that had short barrel laws or and the fact that maybe the import tax for for it would be the same tax so per gun would have half the tax. I'm pretty sure I have seen a revolver made in belgium like this. I suppose the only way of telling if you have a gun that originally shared 1 barrel is the twist direction and compare it to most Belgium caliber of that type of gun, its its opposite then you have the other half lol

[@Eralen00]

it wouldn't be too complicated to machine a replica barrel for at least one of these things to see what it might have looked like in its "final" usable configuration

[@tempsucks6020]

So these Turn Pistols are what legal loop holes looked like 170 years ago.

[@afish8883]

170*

[@andrewholdaway813]

More like 170 yrs

[@TrondBørgeKrokli]

@@IceysCream Most likley early access via membership or Patreon member.

[@arudegesture]

They could also look like that in order to be used for extremely short range duelling!😆 Sort of, load them up, screw the barrel back on and fire away! First one who gets hit by shrapnel from the barrel loses!😁

[@Anonymous-ks8el]

The firearm equivalent of a Chinese finger trap

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Ha, I knew they reminded me of something but couldn't put my finger on it.

[@ACuriousTanuki]

@@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries good thing, or you'd have had a hard time getting it back 😄

[@julianmhall]

Alternative use might be dueling pistols when dueling was illegal / not allowed? 'I don't have dueling pistols ossifer!' *waits until police / provosts leave, unscrews one end* 'OK now I do!'

[@kevinsullivan3448]

Jonathon (can I call you Jonathon?), were you influenced by Ian to start documenting and presenting the collection or was this something you wanted to do on your own?

[@captainswoop8722]

Could be a way of getting a quick reload, just swap the barrel from one lock to the other.

[@stenanderson1695]

Those are pretty neat little gun(s?).

[@ericconnor8419]

At first assumed the idea was you would reload one end while you were shooting the other attached to the barrel so you did not get caught out with no weapon while reloading, or that you could keep them both loaded while carrying without them getting damp inside or powder falling out. If it accidentally discharged in your pocket it would shoot itself, although I suppose it might go off like a small grenade with two lots of powder inside. It is a shame it is historically important I would love to see what would happen if you were carrying with both sides loaded with shot and powder and it fired.

[@kevinsullivan3448]

I've never seen this type of loading system, now I have to add it to my firearms document for TTRPGs... #RPGate The wood of those grips is pretty fantastic. Nice wood stocks and grips are so much more expensive now compared to their predecessors, even taking inflation into account. Splitting the barrels would require more than bubba with a vice and hacksaw, a real gunsmith would be needed to put on a proper crown and install the front sight. Bubba cuts the barrel in half longitudinally, "You said you wanted it cut in half, you didn't say how." I imagine the round barrel would be easier to install the front sight, since you might not get a ridge or flat of the octagonal barrel to line up exactly right with the lock. I couldn't tell if they did, but I expect that was the purpose of the axial offset of the two locks.

[@manchagojohnsonmanchago6367]

import laws from austrohungary.. you can find many belgian pocket pistols with long 10 inch barrels with scour lines on them for the customer to cut. many have only part of the barrel to be left behind rifled and lapped.

[@cwxdaf152]

How many retweets to get the saw out?

[@dalemoss4684]

They're pretty little pistols, and I think they were often sold in pairs. Depictions of pirates and highwaymen in the early 19th century often have a brace of these in the waistband of their pants

[@aidanfarnan4683]

The advantage of this is if you havent got a chance to saw them down yet you can beat would-be muggers with them like Gordon Freeman with a crowbar.

[@bahhab9361]

10/10

[@bebo4374]

I think they’re dueling pistols. Each person would grab a grip and on the count of three would fire. You’d need to be quick.

[@CAMSLAYER13]

Whoever gets less maimed by the shrapnel wins

[@comentedonakeyboard]

double feature 👍

[@auriannakomo975]

Is it even a gun if it doesnt have a muzzle ? Maybe you could import it as weirdly shaped pressure vessel ? :D

[@chriskortan1530]

Seems a shame they didn't leave a blank space or perpendicular pattern in the middle. Who would want to cut that beautiful patterning.

[@Alexplainow]

They could have been "multi" chamber pistols

[@willemventer3935]

Strange how people work around stupid restrictions that politicians place by ridicules' laws.

[@oubliette862]

say pattern welded instead because its correct and specific.

[@nickverbree]

I think "Damascus" in air quotes is okay; it's basically just circumventing the pedantic issue while using the term more people know and recognize. The rest of us can just silently grumble at Bill Moran for starting the terminology problem in the first place.

[@oubliette862]

@@nickverbree choosing to use the wrong terms create the confusion, it doesn't bother me personally, I fact check all my information so that I know what I'm talking about. the presenter seemed at a loss...

[@nickverbree]

@@oubliette862 Oh, Jonathan knows all about the internet wars people get into about the use of the term "Damascus". That's why he was sure to put it in air quotes. As someone who actually makes pattern welded steel, I see it all the time; I think he side stepped the issue pretty well.

[@oubliette862]

@@nickverbree right on lol.