Is a Highlander Shield Bulletproof? Targe vs Flintlock Musket & Pistol - Historical Myth Busting

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#highlander #history #mythbusting

[@ModernKnight]

wonderful bit of practical archaeology. fascinating insights. Even some protection against some battlefield threats is better than none.

[@nick3175]

This is not accurate targe. The leather is not hardened. And that is obvious by the damage. Properly hardened leather will break, like iron. The hardest layer of the targe is actually the leather.

[@bl4cksp1d3r]

​@@nick3175do you have sources for that by chance? To me, the leather covering looks more like it's mainly there to make it waterproof

[@bl4cksp1d3r]

​@@nick3175also, the second targe definitely had more brittle leather

[@ducthman4737]

Black powder was also of lower quality in those days than what we use now. And the wet weather in Scotland could also have an effect. But the test shows how accurate a smoothbore flintlock could be.

[@sashasmail-h6c]

Ya, I loved this.

[@BrandonF]

It's fantastic to see this tested in live conditions! Thanks so much for your time and commitment in making this video. Always sad to see such beautiful pieces damaged- but all in the name of proper science and history! I suppose the ones back in the day would see much more abuse than this. It looks like an awful lot depended on the angle the targe is held up to, so definitely worth examining the historical record to see just how aware the men were of this and to what degree they altered their approach to reflect it. I also wonder how effectively a man would be able to keep that slope when on a charge, or if he was hit by multiple shots in a volley.

[@stephenpolizzi]

Brandon this goes great with your video on why didn't 18 century armies use shields as this is a time when shields were used by armies.

[@jothegreek]

any video on jacobites vs indians ?brandon?

[@medievalexplorer77]

Fantastic! Thoroughly enjoyed watching all three targes being put through their paces. Hopefully my reputation as a targe maker has not been as damaged as much as my targe but I am very satisifed that the targe was fairly effective against the musket and flintlock. Very interesting and surprising to see the results produced from targes made with hardwood and softwood. Well done guys on producing a very well made and informative video!

[@RobRobertson-e7t]

Questions: How thick is the wool layer, and is it felted? Also what type of wood did you use?

[@bozzskaggs112]

Thank you for engaging your targe as a target. Also, I've the same queries as Robert Rrrobertson.

[@Cascadian_Ranger]

Wasn't expecting the shield to stop anything at all so the results are impressive.

[@benm5407]

Supposedly the leather shields used by African tribes would repel shot if they urinated on them before hand

[@willsofer3679]

@@benm5407 I'm guessing that was more or less a "placebo effect". In other words, they likely superstitiously thought it had some kind of efficacy. But I can't see how that would make any sort of difference. Like, at all.

[@benm5407]

@@willsofer3679 you'll have to try it and let us know

[@willsofer3679]

@@benm5407 Not sure that myth needs busting. Because, y'know, physics. It's just a wet shield. lol

[@johnsenior7154]

@@willsofer3679 They probably urinated on them while they were being shot at. :)

[@brenwoodard1832]

With this and the Tod's Workshop Agincourt video it's so nice to see people actually doing things like this. It make me think of all the history documentaries I've seen with someone shooting some historic weapon into some historic armor with nothing beyond an assurance that everything is "authentic," while some excited but clueless host goes on about what a great approximation everything is.

[@fezparker2401]

tods also doing a shield test as well

[@stav1369]

Here is another small channel that does similar tests to Tod. Here is their Shield test with a 100lb Warbow kzbin.info/www/bejne/aZTKfa1qoZtnb6M

[@ENIGMAXII2112]

Bingo..

[@scholagladiatoria]

Fantastic work! Thanks for doing this chaps.

[@FandabiDozi]

Thanks for watching Matt! Always nice to see channels I watch commenting :) keep up the videos

[@benhamilton2652]

Fantastic work Tom. I was absolutely so excited when I got to hold that targe with a musket ball stuck... This is an excellent practical history lessons

[@MartinGreywolf]

From what I've seen, hardwood shields are more resistant to being damaged in repeated use - so modern re-enactors who usually don't hit them with the full destructive power (weapons are blunt, no firearms or high draw weight bows and crossbows) are better off with them. A good shield isn't cheap, and not having to replace it once or twice a year does help a lot. But for resisting relatively few but powerful hits, soft woods usually work out better because they are a little bouncy and spongy. One additional thing to think about is that this is the test with the best gunpowder and the targes are just on the verge of being musket-proof anyway. If your powder is slightly wet, or the mixture is a bit off, a targe may well stop a musket when angled at 45 degrees.

[@DoktorJest]

Oak splinters did massive damage in ship engagements. Interesting that it does something similar at much lower energies. Great video

[@cpm9747]

That is a beautiful targe! A friend of mine with knowledge of creating armored vehicles once told me that the ideal angle for any armor plating is 33 degrees because this creates the highest probability for safely deflecting projectiles up and away from the target. Not surprised at all by how well the targe's did. ^_^ Thank you all for a lovely video!

[@DG-iw3yw]

But 33 degrees from the expected direction of projectiles, or just 33 degrees from the ground?

[@romainandrieux5948]

@@DG-iw3yw from the direction of projectiles, which is actually almost impossible to achieve, because lands are not flat, and guns dont shoot straight but curved :(

[@hellequingentlemanbastard9497]

If they prefered soft-wood for their targes, that means that was for a reason. And when you look at Medieval shields, they used preferably Lime-wood for their shields to make them more lighter, nimbler and sturdier against missiles because of the "softness". Another reason could also have been that soft-wood traps a blade better than a hard-wood.

[@HaileISela]

i'd bet it's got a lot to do with the tensile strength, the wool layer adding a substantial tensegrity layer to the system. the brittle structure of the hard wood probably has to do with its cells being rather small, making it a sturdy thing that can't spread the incoming forces all that well over a larger area. the whole thing makes me shudder thinking of all the lead people shot around battlefields all over. as awful as war is for people, its effects on the more-than-human world is just as terrible...

[@DehardeJup]

A shield is not a wall, the dynamic movement lightweight enables you to prevents more damage to shield and fighter than slightly more resistance at the price of weight will.

[@celem1000]

The Highlanders almost certainly didn't prefer softwood to hardwood for their shields. However hardwood is vanishingly rare in Scotland. Already by AD87 fully half the Caledonian Forest was gone, it had nothing to do with the English, nor the Royal Navy, it was climate driven, replaced by peatlands. By the period covered by this video the forest was entirely gone So. Hardwood is just not available/affordable in this period, and you should not read overly much into them selecting softwoods without an understanding of the conditions in the country. Even today broadleaf forest is very slow to reestablish in Scotland, we primarily plant softwood lumber species (pine). As a 21st century Highland bowyer, I have to import staves from the Borders as I still cannot source hardwoods other than the occasional Rowan

[@hellequingentlemanbastard9497]

@@celem1000 - Ok, that's good to know. It was more a lack of resources than preference then. I guess it must have been the Romans that perpetrated the Climate Change at this time.

[@eldorados_lost_searcher]

I'm glad that you took angles into account, and that your rig allowed for flex, as a human arm would have. I was surprised at their effectiveness.

[@SpicyKumquat]

If I had the energy I'd leave a comment like this on every one of your videos I would, but you've quickly become one of my go-to channels on YT. Really awesome to see how far the quality of your videos has come! You deserve all the success

[@andrewsmith9174]

I want to say that I like that the target was NOT so solidly placed. In principle, that makes the realism more accurate. This was to simulate a person holding a shield. And that person would have been moving with the arm not so rigid. I believe this actually made a more accurate simulation than any “Armour vs projectile” test I’ve ever seen. Also, a shame to abuse those beautiful shields. Great work and so entertaining watching you all.

[@notyetidentified9720]

Could be interesting to see a combination of softwood in the front, wool core and hardwood on the back - that's more or less how modern tank armour is constructed, with soft steel in front, rubber like layer between and hard steel layer behind. Well... At least in the case of some tanks which armour packets aren't classified. Very cool tests overall! Great to see someone putting some work into it.

[@randalljones4370]

May I ask which softwoods were used, and if they were green , well-dried, or somewhere in between? In addition to the standard pine species, I wonder if Willow's famous shoch-resistance would be applicable here? Willow is also lightweight. I am assuming that the layers of wood have their grain 'crossed' or perpendicular, to form a primitive plywood. (something the local wheelwright or cooper would be well-attuned to). Are the pegs made using the same wood as the shield-body, or are they fashioned from a low-shrinkage wood? About the brass studs : Do we know if the 17th-18th century Scots temperature-hardened their brass? - I understand heat hardening brass takes a few hours at 580C, or - cold hardening can be done, by applying heavy weight/force to create a case-hardened surface. Sorry for all the questions. I'm just a Yank with a wee bit of MacDonald way back in the ancestry (3 gens back). EDIT : .... and I guess we could get into the time-honor battle between Moreno and proper Shetland wool for the felting, and if it matters if it was collected after the rue. Of course, having raised Shetland's for their wool on my little farm here in Oregon for 20 years does make me a touch biased !! This looks like a GREAT use for all those felted bits we used to skirt off the belly and brisket of the fleece. BTW, we just had to put down our oldest wether, Griffin. He was within a few weeks of turning 19, and he still had a great appetite, right up to the end. Arthritis fused his hips and knees, and I couldn't keep lifting/moving him 2-3 times a day... This old man's back isn't what it used to be.

[@mikefule]

Great video. Thanks. As your musket man said, the thing is not to aim at the targe but at the exposed part of the enemy. The more the targe is angled, the more of the enemy is exposed. I wonder how much the prominent central boss and the concentric rings of studs would draw the eye of the shooter, making him more likely to hit the targe in the heat of battle.

[@Archaic-Arms]

Very interesting experiments! From what I've seen, the 10 bore Brown Bess muskets of this period fired ~71 caliber balls and used cartridges with ~200 grains or so of powder. An equivalent of standard modern-made black powder would probably be at least ~150 grains including priming. A formidable opponent indeed! Volleys could start in excess of 200yds, where the ball is starting to impacting at quite an angle. In this case, not angling the shield might actually provide better protection. Musket balls can also skip fiercely when they hit the ground, so I can see a shield being practical even if it only stopped pistol and deflected musket shot.

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

Yes. I suspect the musket charge used here is on the low side.

[@PrebleStreetRecords]

@@b.h.abbott-motley2427It is, even with good modern powder. Duelist1954 has a great recent video on the minutae of British loadings in this period. A Charleville or Brown Bess would typically see well over 100 grains in each charge. I use about 100 in my .50 rifle, and 120-160 in my .69 muskets and .58 rifle.

[@bigjo66]

@@b.h.abbott-motley2427 Indeed, the recoil looks extremely small here - if they aren't using a full charge then surely there's not much point in the test?

[@guaporeturns9472]

@@bigjo66 even back then they would reduce charges if they were running low on powder or weren’t sure when they could get another delivery of powder. Called powder conservation

[@LARPBeard]

This is brilliant! Kudos for all the hard work.

[@mmurray821]

Thank you for setting this up lads! Amazing historical content. Shows the older generations weren't stupid bringing shields into a firefight. Now I want to see a historical movie based off of this.

[@britishmuzzleloaders]

Loved this! Great experiment. One thing to perhaps consider, regarding the angles the large was held at.. Whilst the angle did indeed see a beneficial effect, in angling it, one actually decreases the amount of the body it is covering, leading to a increased chance that the bullet would miss it entirely and hit the man... Again,.. great project! Thank you.

[@eatonbeckstrom8187]

Yo it's you

[@revere0311]

That low kneeling shooting position is perfect! as a former Marine infantryman and rifle instructor I thought I’d let you know Cheers!

[@Bayan1905]

Here in the US, during the American Revolution, before he switched sides, some of the most decisive battles for the Colonials were fought and won by none other than Benedict Arnold. One where he was in command was the Battle of Valcour Island, where Arnold was in charge of a makeshift fleet of gunboats and he put his fleet up against the larger and better armed British fleet on Lake Champlain, New York and the majority of the battle took place near Valcour Island. Arnold's gunboats had makeshift armor made of fascines that were hung from the rigging to protect the crews from musket fire from the shoreline from the Mohawk warriors who were aligned with the British. Last year I tested some fascine armor with a .58 roundball and found that the ball was more likely to be deflected. But recently I've seen some more examples of the fascine that were thicker than I made mine so I plan to retest it with a .75 doglock musket, something that would have been likely to be in the hands of a Mohawk in 1777. I recently witnesses a live fire exercise at Fort Ticonderoga where they were shooting at a large single pieces of wooden plank some two inches thick with Brown Bess muskets using paper cartridges and .69 roundballs. It was shocking that some made it through and some didn't.

[@Sheltie01]

I fully expected the first two to be effective, more so the second one. I use a Targe with wool insert in full contact fighting. Between the studs, leather, wool and red deer pelt on back, I feel nothing through it. Even if it's hot by a mace or halberd. As Paul says at the end, lots of studs. They deflect balls and blades 😁

[@martybartfast1]

"Well; we did not qualify what type of whiskey, nor the size of the bottle." 24:24.... I fell off my chair laughing. Great all round on this vid, engaging presenters, solid knowledge base, fascinating subject matter. I just wish I could smell the Scots Pine, heather and black powder smoke. Thank you all. I have entered... I hope that helps you out. m out

[@SuperFunkmachine]

With metal armour often pistol proof armour was musket proof at 100+ meters, not too far to run before they reload. The same layering happened with armour, there's a number of duplex armours held together with rivets. I do wonder if a oak backed with soft wood and wool lined would be a good combination.

[@MoonLitChild]

I'd think you'd reverse the layering there: softwood -- wool -- hardwood-- that way all the shock absorption happens first, before it hit the hard wood, but yeah, would be interesting to mix and match to see what variations worked best.

[@findingfolklore]

Amazing video! My Grandad used to make Target's but he always said he didn't think they could actually stop bullets. He'll be chuffed to find they can actually have worked.

[@JonathanFergusonRoyalArmouries]

Very interesting. Minor point given the results but 90 grains is rather a low charge for a musket. The British land service musket was charged with just under (due to priming allowance) 6 drams, or 164 grains (again, minus a small amount for priming). That would carry it a lot further than 150 yards (accuracy notwithstanding) - out to 600 yards, albeit with very little effect at that distance. The bullet is certainly low at 150 yards, but more like striking the legs than hitting the ground.

[@noahjohnson935]

I love your videos. I found you going down a KZbin rabbit hole on Scottish history. Hope you keep making these wonderful videos. Love from across the pond in America!

[@shanepatrick4534]

What is the bore of the firearm, what's the weight of the ball, and what's the charge type and weight? These variables are rather important.

[@igorvoloshin3406]

Outstanding video! You gentlemen showed the very Scottish way to entertain selves in a countryside. Interesting, authentic, picturesque - all what expected from this great channel. Greetings from Ukraine! 🇺🇦🤝🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿

[@matthewcharles5867]

Good video, only thing is they would of been using heavier charges in their muskets than 90 grains of powder. The standard charge was 165 grains of powder. 20 grains for priming the rest down the barrel. Tests in 1811 showed they would penetrate 1inch of wood at 300yards. These heavier charges are not that uncomfortable to shoot and probably go along to explain why being shot by a musket resulted in amputations as they really do break up bones. Smoothbore guns are also quite a bit more accurate than they are usually given credit for. Cheers keep up the great videos.

[@joeydr1497]

I love the way the hair stands on end in that last high speed shot. It’s fascinating.

[@joelbriggs4634]

Absolutely loved this video, excellent mix of education and charm. One of the bits that surprised me the most was how effective the studs were, I knew they weren’t just decoration but I hadn’t imagined how useful they would be.

[@jennifermoody487]

I was thinking hardwood all the way, as well, Tom. Really surprising! Super video!

[@Supermunch2000]

Gather a bunch of grown men, armor and weapons and you have a bunch of big kids having a laugh and enjoying the nice weather outside. I love your videos and it just makes me want to go revisit Scotland!

[@dougmartin2007]

13:20 I am reminded of tank armor that is often slanted at an angle, so that any projectile has to punch through a slightly thicker piece of armor. The possibility of "bouncing" a shot is higher when they are not a perpendicular hit.

[@fizzelopeguss]

Fantastic video, seeing how close range the shooting was back then with the powder and shield splinters flying everywhere... they really were a different breed back then.

[@johntipper29]

Great work! The results of this practical demonstration were surprising. The second softwood targe performed better than I expected and as for the hardwood targe - well, hopefully, you live learn. Thank you.

[@jananay2768]

I think this definitely also proves that you don’t need to cover the whole shield in metal. The amount of times that Raymond hit a stud was quite impressive. Well done to all of you, and thanks for the time and effort put in to bringing us a lovely, informative video. Really interesting stuff, cheers!

[@googlommolgoog2313]

i love your videos, personally I am a Canadian/Portuguese citizen and I practice portuguese martial arts. Right now im on Godinhos book and im currently trying to get into jogo do pau. thank you for inspiring me to go down the path of self discovery.

[@davidmathieson8661]

Interesting point that may demonstrate why the soft wood was better. While in college a lecturer once told me that athe true test of a sharp chisel was if it could cut through the grain of pine without compressing it, a blunt chisel (even one that felt sharp) would compress the pine "bruising" it, sort of curving the edge of the cut, while a truly sharp chisel sliced through leaving a crisp edge...whereas the same blunt chisel would cut clean across hardwoods like oak, while it required more force to cut through the hardwoods, it would still cut yet leave a crisper edge. I think it's possible that that "sponge-yness" of the pine is what helped here, the pine compressed more from the impact of the bullet while shearing away, instead of resisting the bullet and blowing out under the strain like the oak. Oak always seemed "brittle" to me, it feels like the difference between a well tempered steel vs a very hard yet brittle one.

[@dr.strangelove9815]

The targe's design and materials made a huge difference in how the firearm's force impacts. Fascinating how the wool and soft wood functioned!

[@jm8361]

Very interesting testing. I wonder how an oak over softwood with a felt core would work targe would work. The hard oak face to deform the ball and the softwood as splinter protection.

[@CMenzy]

Absolutely loved this video ballistic shields of the 1700's and that's probably why in days gone past even with leather armour and plenty of layers and padding you were able to move fairly freely but still somewhat protected. I think way more damage was done by artillery and bayonet even as a military veteran who with modern body armour close up hand to hand combat was the most scary thing. Thanks a million for doing this video. It was truly fandabbydozy

[@MrMaccarenzie]

There’s a targe with no metal studs at Culloden which has several musket ball holes and no sign of them coming through the back (which can’t be seen as it’s displayed unfortunately). My suspicion is that this was hit at the longer range of musket range by a volley of fire, but we’ll never know.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

Eh, could also have a steel or iron plate under the hide. Hide is better at griping spear points so even with metal there is still a benefit to a hide outer layer

[@lutzderlurch7877]

Also possible, unless there is provenance against it, that it was used as a targeT for shooting practice at some point. Wouldnt be the firat item used in that way

[@wolfwest3033]

if it were me id put a thin plate of metal after the soft wood, soft wood absorbs most the energy and the metal is tough but will also stretch so it could absorb the rest

[@mikloskoszegi]

Great experiments, great video! The fact that these shields can reliably stop those pistol bullets is already impressive, and while i wouldn't exactly call them bulletproof, they certainly give you a much better chance at survival than not having a neat little shield like this.

[@sjohnson4882]

This may not be related but I read in "The Comanches, Lords of the South Plains"(I think), that they (and presumably other Plains tribes) used to reinforce their shields with sheets of paper (from a book). So an inch or so of pressed paper between two specially thickened sheets of buffalo rawhide. Just a thought.

[@HazzaTheFox]

I love this video! Such thorough testing! I wasn't expecting them to work THAT well. If I were a musketeer I'd actually be pretty worried about a Targe-Charge, even against a normal amount of studs!

[@FirstoftheAbyss92]

This was brilliant! If you had asked me a few days ago about the effectiveness of wooden shields against bullets I would have been dismissive of them... It seems I was wrong. The tests seemed to be competently executed and I liked the explanations and theory crafting between. These really gave it a lot of extra value. Also, is there anyone with an explanation for the amount of times it hid a stud? I would have assumed that the odds of hitting a stud were very small. Lucky strikes so to speak. Instead it seemed like the bullets were almost drawn to them. I am willing to assume that the angle might have made them into a bigger target (percentwise) than they otherwise would have been, but even then that's a large amount of times those studs were shot.

[@gordonhulcombe9604]

These Lads, had fun making this presentation! Well done, I say!

[@DougPalumbo]

Outstanding video! Your hard work and dedication to detail really shows cheers!

[@longrider42]

Okay, I used to hunt with a black powder muzzle loading rifle, in .50 caliber. When I used round ball, I would have to be very careful with bullet placement. Often the round ball would make the same sized hole going out, as it did going in. Unless it hit bone. More people back in the day of the smooth bore musket died from a wound festering, and getting infected. Then from the ball itself.

[@chrisball3778]

Really cool test. I'm not sure they'd usually have held it at the shallow angle in battle- it's great when you're aiming at the shield, but if the enemy's actually aiming at you, then it won't cover much of your body. Lots of 17th and 18th century breastplates designed to be bullet-resistant also had a two-layer construction, so it'd make sense that they'd try something similar with targes during that period. The targe is obviously not going to make you musket-proof, but if I was being shot at, I'd much rather have it than not. When early-mid 17th century armoured cavalry were up against other armoured cavalry, they were encouraged to actually bring the end of the barrel into contact with the enemy's armour before firing to ensure the ball went through, so they seem to have been aware of the limitations of the weapon against hardened targets. But I don't know whether this would still have been common knowledge by the Jacobite period, when less armour was generally being worn anyway. The relative rarity of shields on the battlefield by that point may have made some of the Highlanders' enemies underestimate their effectiveness.

[@geoffallert1921]

As always, another great video. Keep 'em coming, mate.🧙‍♂

[@Nightwing01010]

Is the wool acting as a sort of Kevlar equivalent to help absorb the kinetic energy?

[@gussie88bunny]

I predict pistol stopped by all, but only hardwood and felt shield stopping the musket ..... editing in results now...... Putting in extra lines to prevent spoilers for those who haven't watched the video .... And nailed it for the pistol, but off on the musket. That softwood flex advantage surprised me. Conclusions: At longer ranges maybe the targe has some battlefield merit, but given the lacklustre overall protection against muskets (and canister from small cannons) and small coverage, it doesn't really seem worth it. Still super epic that next-level hectic dudes with swords and shields were charging gun formations. I'm all stirred up thinking about it.

[@toryistatertot5394]

Epic video!!! What wonderful lessons we can learn by getting out and experimenting. Interesting to think that hundreds of years ago men may have done similar experiments as they pushed for better and better equipment.

[@rossfindlay2664]

I was born in Aberdeen, living in Australia, love your videos!

[@seanbyrne5313]

Scotland genuinely looks like a colder version of where I live in East Tennessee in the United States. Which is appropriate because the area was predominately immigrated to by Scottish people. We still have regular Scottish games here too, including sheep herding, the hammer throw, HEMA events, and of course the caber toss.

[@Bushmansmeg]

When a big superior office pushes you with a shield..... its a "large Sarge Targe Barge"

[@RobbieB2606]

Excellent shooting from that chap

[@mebymyself2816]

As somebody who enjoys shooting muzzleloaders, Brown Bess as well as the French muskets of the era could I ask you to carry out another shoot using the Brown Bess ( larger ball) and heavier charge using say Henry Kranks TPH powder as it is weaker than Swiss probable more akin to the powder of the day. I was surprised that the soft wood held up better than the oak. Thanks for a very enlightening video, if you are able to get somebody to film shots like this in slow motion it is really interesting have a look at Cap and Ball or Taofledermaus who use a lot of high speed photography.

[@homemadehistory7537]

That is a nice and impressive result👍 How about a test with a brown bess first pattern. That would be more or less the weapon of the oponing red coats. The load is somewere about 120 to 150 grains. The 75cal ball has a diameter 19.2mm and is much more heavy than the 69cal from the charleville musket. The chrlevile is clearly the technical better weapon with a better acuracy but the impact from the brown bess is way stronger. For sure i do not want to hold that targe not against both of them 🤣🤣

[@davidegaruti2582]

26:42 would have plywood helped in that situation ? having two thinner layers of hardwood offsetted 90° , i think that could have prevented the wood splitting like that ...

[@RoamingRob42]

I don't know if nayone else has said this (or even if I'm right), but I think the reason the soft wood was better at stopping the musket shot could be because it's less brittle, so when it's hit by the ball more energy is dispersed over the targe, rather then focused on one point, effectively taking more energy out of the shot. This is just a hypothesis though, and I could be wrong. Fab video, absolutely fascinating!

[@Detsteve]

Excellent!! Very interesting experiments. At those calibers, I'm surprised they stopped anything. Great video work to show what happened also. Thanks for this.

[@stephengarrett8076]

Outstanding investigation surprising outcome!!!!!! Thank you.

[@gorillanogin]

Chainmail maybe? Coverd in studs on top might/ probably stop one

[@russellnesbitt7139]

The Scottish answer to Todd's Workshop's "Arrows VS Armor" tests. I wholeheartedly approve.

[@lukediehl1210]

Little bit of context for people that might not have familiarity with blackpowder firearm loads. Round balls from a smoothbore barrel have significantly less range and accuracy than modern bullets, and they lose energy faster due to the sub-optimal aerodynamics, but I want to talk about the powder charge. The 50 grain charge in the pistol is basically a medium game load. The .38-55 (.38 caliber bullet with 55 grain powder charge) is still in production today for whitetail deer. 90 grains in the musket is a large game load. Sharps developed the .50-90 back in the 19th century to hunt buffalo.

[@tylerrobbins8311]

Outstanding video! I knew they would be able to deflect the bullets but out right stopping them! 🤩 so glad to see the highland way is still the pinnacle of 18th century volley an charge.

[@garymyersgarym6434]

I love the vid, plus the Scottish language. Brings home my Scottish heritage on my mothers side of the family.

[@Tskimmo]

i have made lots of shields for combat in the SCA, our fighting style enoourages lots of blunt impact on the shields, and i have found that hard wood shields splinters and busts faster then soft woods. which is line with what your seeing. you would think oak is harder but its more brittle to impact. love your work

[@macgonzo]

Really interesting experiment! Fascinating stuff!

[@farstrider79]

Thanks for seeking out answers to questions I didn't know I wanted to ask!

[@michaeltelson9798]

Having the grain of the wood be crossed is exactly what is done in making plywood. Wood swells and shrinks according to atmospheric conditions. The cross grain approach reduces it considerably, by fighting against the movement of the different layers making it stable.Then it gives it more structural strength than a typical piece of solid wood pf the same thickness. The only weakness being the glue or other method that adhered it together. The WWII Mosquito Fighter Bomber was covered in furniture grade plywood and was known for the strength of the material. Aircraft grade plywood has exceptional strength and is made from birch or similar woods not known for their strength.

[@davidegaruti2582]

15:37 "that saved his heed" man i love me some scottish accent

[@CDKohmy]

Can you talk about other targe types? I've heard some alternative materials were targes made from wicker or barrel lids. Also, I've herd of oval targes.

[@j.lietka9406]

Those are beautiful Targes! And basket hilt! I made my own Targe, sort if a copy from Stones Glossary. I couldnt make the "Umbro or Umbo" quite right - just a flat round piece of brass, and no removable center spike.

[@Justarthur100]

Out of interest, where do you get all of your historic clothing from? I have searched high and low for a shirt like that but have never been successful! Would appreciate any help and fantastic video as always!

[@thomphan9518]

he discusses a lot of his kit in prior videos. but if you look up kilt shirt, you’ll start finding similar.

[@asa-punkatsouthvinland7145]

Very educational. I can't help but wonder now about the stories one hears about musket balls being deflated by targes. Unless the highlanders were further back it seems it was a gamble if the targe would protect you or not.

[@muskett4108]

Great vid. Pistols were used at almost touching range just because they weren't that powerful, let alone trying to hit a target. Thick wet wool blanket can stop ball that is almost spent, not at close range though. French Cuirassiers breast plates could deflect ball to some degree too, but their horses couldn't. Musket ball energy is fast lost over range. At close range then the ball has the energy and will smash through most things, which is why troops were marched right up close before giving their volley fire. Splinters in naval battles of oak built ships were horrific. I'm impressed how the Targe performed. Do they do the same with arrows? Hard wood or soft? Another thing I'd like to see is Targe and claymore/Scottish broad sword v musket and bayonet. What would it take to stop a Highland Charge? Great stuff, thank you.

[@Dr.Gehrig]

Very cool. I know lots of medieval shields had one layer of hard wood and one layer of softwood. I'm curious how that would have done, both with hard first and again with hard as the 2nd layer. With and without wool.

[@charlesquinnell469]

Brilliant! Well done you. Interesting to put in context of Highland charge between two clan forces. Was it mainly pistols used in the pause to fire off guns before closing for hand-to-hand? Or were muskets used commonly at that stage too? If mostly pistols then perhaps a great shield for "Highland" combat. Less so when up against a professional army?

[@wadewilliam9053]

Try one with a hard wood outer layer wool then soft wood inner layer the hard wood may cause the ball to mushroom an the more pliable soft wood may help take the rest of the energy out of the ball to stop the ball !

[@samuelwestlund3386]

Musket definitely has a better chance of penetrating the targe than the pistol does, but only when fired at 10-15 yards, maybe a bit further. However, in the context of battle both guns would have still been formidable if the way the shields moved when the bullets hit the shields was anything to go by. It might not have passed through every time, but the force of the bullet hitting the shield could have injured someone's arm or thrown the person holding the shield off balance. Even if it did not do anything worse than knock the person holding the shield off his feet, it would have certainly bounced off and hit either the person with the shield or the guy next to him.

[@TheHeroicE]

Why are targes not metal-rimmed? Is it weight reduction? I cannot help but feel it's performance may have benefitted from a rim, especially at some of the lower angles.

[@nikitamckeever5403]

What about a Bess with the 120 grain fffg military load . I am curious to see what would happen . That ball is heavier and travelling faster . I’ve shot through 3 inch planking at 30 yards . Maybe the ply , leather and angle makes all the difference plus the targe would be held so as to move when the ball struck . Very interesting content , thank you

[@b.h.abbott-motley2427]

Thank you for doing this test. I do wonder whether the musket used here is sufficiently charged. 5.83 grams of powder is considerably lower than what was used in any long gun in the Graz test, & even that was lower than what some period sources say. (I'm mainly familiar with 16th-century sources in this regard.) Even the pistols in the Graz test got at least 5 grams of powder. Guns of similar calibers to the musket here got 9.33-11 grams of powder. It's all complicated by the fact the modern powder is different from historical powder, & historical charges varied, especially in times when powder was in short supply. "A Detailed Study of the Effectiveness and Capabilities of 18th Century Musketry on the Battlefield" by N A Roberts, J W Brown, B Hammett, & P D F Kingston likewise suggests larger charges & high performance. These authors use Alfred Mordecai's 1845 experiments to conclude that the 18th-century Brown Bess likely also reached 457.2 m/s (1,500 fps). They couldn't manage this velocity with period-appropriate powder charges of 8.89-10.66 grams, & thus claim that historical powder must have performed better for the Brown Bess than modern powders do. They also test approximations of targes, including with steel reinforcement, which did little to stop the musket balls from their very powerful musket. Chronograph data on both the musket & pistol tested here would help us interpret this data, as would measurements for the targes (diameter, weight, etc.).

[@jamesnave1249]

Really interesting and informative! So I should be smothering my targe in studs!

[@frankrebind4483]

This is a fandabi-fabulous piece of practical testing, very well done! An excellent watch that's answered a LOT of questions, great job guys. (Also might be the most Scottish thing I've ever seen between the three of ya's)

[@vlogfriendsutopia]

*Fandabulous

[@bimscutney1242]

What an interesting video! My question would be is hanging the targe from rope really approximating someone holding the shield? Seems like when the ball hit the target the force dissipated through the rope when it swayed. Whereas if the targe was on someone’s arm there would be more of a rigid force behind it transferring more of the force through the shield.

[@gotbaka3]

Wonderful test. Truly fascinating results. More of this type of testing please!

[@ducthman4737]

Great test. Thanks a lot. Is there no Targe found where between the two layers of wood a thin metal layer was placed or maybe direct behind the leather? They must have know how studs could stop the projectile.

[@lukeman9851]

Seeing the effectiveness of the brass studs and with the benefit of hindsight, i understand you can't face the whole thing in brass cause of the weight, but I wonder whether replacing the outer layer of wood with enameled ceramic or glass, still backed by felted wool and softwood and bound in leather, would be more consistently proof against at least the first musket shot

[@armandvanzyl6325]

Keep up the good work, effort pays of man. Realy enoy your videos.

[@_hi_pwr]

I always wondered where the word target came from, perhaps or maybe it derives from the word Targe.

[@OntarioBearHunter]

that is the etymology.. it's a very common word in all languages so it's hard to say if it's French, Germanic, Latin or Arabic in first origin

[@FandabiDozi]

Aye the words are related :) I discuss it a little in my old video on the Targe :)

[@fibber2u]

One type of targe construction was missed and I wonder if it would not have been the best? A softer wooden outer layer on top of a harder wooden inner layer, with a felt core layer. I suspect the harder oak splinter actually was able to punch through the second layer of wood precisely because it was hard and thus open the way for the ball. Would not a softer splinter be even more likely to fail pushing through a harder second layer?

[@captainfenn]

I am looking to build a targe in the traditional style, but coming up short on information. I do educational reenactment here in the US. I was interested if you had any good sources of information on building one. I would like to build a complete version, and then a second that all the layers can be seen upon. Finding out in this video that there was a wool layer in the middle was fascinating and makes me want to build one even more!!