A PowerPoint about Pokemon's Failed Gimmicks

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[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

Hey y’all, I’ve been voice training recently and want to at least try and implement it in some of my videos. Just helps my confidence + is the best practice excuse ever. Won’t be sacrificing any of the content, still going to have the same standards of “understandability.”

[@EyeWasBored]

this is huge folks

[@guillermomunoz3422]

Nah girl, you go for it whenever you want. If people don't like it, that's up to them

[@LoMaLouis]

folks this is insane

[@HuneeBruh]

Why are all the comments now just Jimothy Cool brainrot 😭

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

@@HuneeBruh brainrot? don't you mean brain expanding?

[@envan7865]

Comatose is extremely funny because it means Komala has a quad-weakness to Wake-Up Slap specifically

[@usernametaken017]

Wake-Up Slap is my second favorite type, right behind U-Turn

[@user-fl4el2mq2x]

We love uturn type

[@danielhale1]

I'm giggling at the image of someone wake-up slapping a Komala, but it doesn't wake up, so they just keep slapping. Until it enters an even deeper sleep, of course.

[@greyscaleadaven]

252+ Atk Guts Conkeldurr Wake-Up Slap (140 BP) vs. 0 HP / 0- Def Komala: 1256-1482 (463.4 - 546.8%) -- guaranteed OHKO Comatose is right

[@paulelderson934]

​@@greyscaleadaven That's some slap alright

[@danielhale1]

Minus: I'm afraid we're going to get Earthquaked. Plus: I'm *positive* we're going to get Earthquaked. Narrator: And so they got Earthquaked

[@PlasmaEnergised.]

Why does minus have to be so negative smh

[@FonVegen]

@@PlasmaEnergised. This feels like a charged question.

[@somekindofforcedpunonnikki2775]

​@@PlasmaEnergised.The fact you felt the need to comment this is shocking 🙄

[@PlasmaEnergised.]

@@somekindofforcedpunonnikki2775 i saw the original comment and it gave me the spark i needed to add to the joke

[@barrada9893]

say the line, minusjak!

[@kevin427]

_Technically_ Wishiwashi also has Aqua Ring for recovery, but well, it’s _Aqua Ring._

[@rockowlgamer631]

Unless they buff aqua ring, which right now it does 1/16 of your max HP, to say something like 1/12 which would be better. Though I looked it up and it says that Leftovers is also 1/16 sooo the only difference is one is an item while the other is a move.

[@connerdroddy4834]

​@@rockowlgamer631well i dont have to sacrifice a move slot for leftovers, + its permanent unless they knock off

[@Grimsly3736]

I feel like If it gave you something like 1/10th or 1/8th but only lasted like 5 - 6 turns it be at least considered for sets

[@dizzyheads]

And it takes a turn to set up

[@Darumaster]

Wishiwashi could have its own healing move where it calls in more fish to fill the swarm lol

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

heal order would go CRAZY

[@Darumaster]

Didn't GameFreak, in their infinite wisdom, axe that move out of the game for some reason? As if Vespiquen was too OP with it.

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

@@DarumasterI mean it destroyed vgc like smergal did with dark void so I get why. /j

[@Darumaster]

Can you explain how? Does it outpace other healing moves somehow?

[@NotAnElk]

@@eeveewithcoffee9554 What? No it didn't, it's just renamed Recover and it's exclusive to Vespiquen, who's quad weak to rock slide, and of course Smeargle, who doesn't need to heal for obvious reasons

[@OnyxOblivion]

My friend loves to theorycraft moves and abilities and this video is the perfect example of why I always calmly say "It depends on the distribution" when he goes "That's probably broken, huh?". There's a lot of stuff in Pokémon that sounds overpowered on paper but just...isn't.

[@darcidious99]

The tinkaton theorem. Gigaton hammer is one of the strongest moves ever, on a pokemon with a mediocre attack stat, and it can only be used every other turn making it easily predictable... But nah man its broken ban to ubers lol lmao

[@MishKoz]

​@@darcidious99 and then they added Blood Moon 💀

[@njivwathomassilavwe2056]

Wishiwashi is genuinely so cool. All of them working together to beat you is dope. Shame it's not very good cause those stats are good

[@CBSnB2R]

Flying press is a pretty cool idea, i wish they did something like that again.

[@nathanh2523]

freeze dry

[@blackdot105]

​@@nathanh2523 Similar, but not the same

[@maxm4006]

Imagine a flying press but it’s a double ice and electric move

[@dasamont8274]

Flying Press would have been overpowered if it worked like Arceus' Judgement in PLA (and Unown's Hidden Power), where it switches type to be super effective, but that would probably be a bit too good, because Fighting and Flying hits everything except like 19 total pokemon for at least normal effective damage, and is super effective against 571 pokemon, which is on par with Ice/ Electric which hits 500 super effectively and is only not very effective against 7 pokemon.

[@BluethoothBBL]

​@@maxm4006pokemon clover

[@EclipseKirby]

What makes me sad about abilities like Plus/Minus is that while they're too niche to work competitively, they seem like perfectly fine and handy abilities for an in-game run, and I'm usually fine with that...or I would be if double battles happened in-game at any amount of consistency. That's really what gets me. I like that competitive Pokemon is doubles, but it bugs the hell out of me that so much of Pokemon is designed around doubles when the games themselves barely use it. A simple toggle in the Options Menu would be all you need.

[@dse763]

I just love Ryme's Gym was the only place in Scarlet/Violet where you can have double battles ... until the indigo disk was released ... but most of it is post game.

[@PoisonFlower765]

I did a recent play through of Gens 1, 2, 3, and 5 back to back, and I was surprised by how often I came across Double Battles. I never chose to avoid them when I saw two trainers facing eachother, so maybe about 1 in 10 battles I had were Doubles. Gen 5 even made decent use of it. Maybe Gen 4 did as well but I don't like those games so I skipped them. But yeah, Doubles should probably be the primary format at this point or at least consist of ~a third of encounters.

[@Tamikansu]

That’s why I like pokemon xd gale of darkness and how many of its main game battles are doubles

[@Skullhawk13]

@@PoisonFlower765the majority of pokemon players are casuals who play the story mode once and that’s it. Singles is easier to understand. Do the math

[@PoisonFlower765]

@@Skullhawk13 Doubles aren't that complicated. Two Pokémon on the field per side. In 99% of encounters, it's just a single battle where you win faster because you OHKO twice as many Pokémon per turn.

[@matigamer329]

Small Correction: Flying Press was buffed to 100 BP in gen 7. And Komala about taking double damage with Hex, Komala is normal type. It'll no longer be immune to Hex if it terastalizes into another type.

[@loch157]

Komala used to have the distinction of being the only possible user of choice booster last resort via using sleep talk. Surprising people with a really funny stab boosted banded 140bp move is always funny

[@Clipsproducer]

fr i used to run that on trick room and the ko's it got with tera normal was funny

[@robertlupa8273]

"Used to"?

[@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257]

Komala is just like its real world counterpart: Completely useless.

[@frankchen4229]

eats its own poop

[@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257]

@@frankchen4229 Uh, I don’t think Komala does that.

[@frankchen4229]

@@bivcbmtgstgtssscqcrddgtrsm2257 its real world counterpart does

[@TheSlammurai]

It could be worse. It could be a panda.

[@TheLaXandro]

Wishiwashi made for a not really good but really really funny proto-Dondozo in doubles. Pick Wishi and Mew, invest into Mew's HP and Wishiwashi's defenses, use Transform to transform into it, and now you got a nigh unkillable fish with fully invested 100/140/140 defenses, plus a slightly more killable fish next to it that you can switch out or just keep spamming Surf with until something dies. Because Mew is transformed, it won't switch to single fish form even on low health. The main weakness is that Mewashi is on a 20-turn timer before it starts to struggle.

[@Marco-fs9bs]

I think it's more of a proto palafin than a dondozo. Both transform into a powerful water type but they basically have no ability

[@brenoborba5433]

Comatose would be so cool in musharna, using calm mind to set up and moonlight to heal without being afraid of getting toxic

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

According to the Pokedex description, Abra should have Comatose (but Munna should also have Levitate, so you know)

[@edgargaebolg9307]

Flying Press is now buffed to 100BP iirc

[@pketr5]

Not enough. Buff it more.

[@edgargaebolg9307]

@@pketr5 They should rework its effectiveness so it can hit Steel or other types ×2 instead of neutral

[@murozaki3547]

As a fan of Yu-gi-oh, I think of Plus and Minus as essentially Pokemon's equivalent of Gemini Summoning. And fitting for that comparison, Gemini Summoning too is kinda trash.

[@Bird-wz7nx]

Ouch. It hurts because its true

[@cactuz116]

Did you mean union ?

[@Skullhawk13]

@@cactuz116Gemini is where you have to summon it twice. As your normal summon. On rare occasions a union monster saw a little play. So I think they were going for the analogy on the “double the cost, in theory double the benefit but actually just bad” angle

[@DrCoeloCephalo]

Wishiwashi gets Flip Turn but that didn't really do much. It pretty much has no Ability due to how Schooling works. When I bring up Pokemon's overlap issues, many people completely miss the point and say _"just don't play competitively"_ which is not only a defeatist argument but does not reslly negate any of the issues. Not playing Pokemon competitively isn't going to magically make Plusle and Minun NOT be low tier trash in a completely casual playthrough in any game ever. Not even their debut game where you catch them in the same area as Electrike whom actually has stats and an Ability.

[@yomomlol9808]

I don't think not having an ability is bad, the problem is how absymal wishiwashi solo is, mixed with the bad movepool and no recovery move Palafin is literally just wishiwashi done well

[@greyscaleadaven]

They're also not designed to work together at all. Sure they get decent moves for doubles play, but the samey typing and stat distribution really doesn't work. They'd need something like a Plus/Minus specific move that makes all the pokemon with that ability affected by Magnet Rise and a strong spread move that doesn't affect partners with Plus/Minus to work. Give one of those moves to each (party magnet rise to Minun, spread move to Plusle) plus redistribute their stats so that Minun is actually good at being a bulky support and Plusle is good at being an attacker, and then maybe it would be usable. Just shows there has been some learning from that with stuff like Commander actually becoming dominant despite its gimmickiness and staying true to the lore.

[@quinndepatten4442]

If flying press hit something for 4x super effective damage I feel like there'd be a lot more to say about it. Like how freeze dry can hit pelliper for 4x super effective damage, walking Jake or joeverpon for 4x that shit is crazy. The fact that kyreum can get away with running 3 ice moves really says something about it.

[@whyareyoulookingatthis236]

I think if they just punched the mons up a little bit they'd be a bit better, like giving wishiwashi higher speed, komala better bulk, flying press hits harder based on whichever type hits more effectively, and plus/minus having more of a benefit like a mold breaker/volt absorb/lightning rod/motor drive effect it would be better as a high risk/reward ability in doubles and have a use in singles. Also i loved your voice in this queen, keep up the good work!!!

[@chardawg5911]

The funny thing is that Komala can run a choice band set with sleep talk and last resort as the only two moves. Comatose allows sleep talk to always work and sleep talk will always call Last Resort, which will work because all other moves (literally just sleep talk) have already been used.

[@sonicrunn3r895]

I feel like Wishiwashi was half made with the Gen 7 pinch berry buff in mind (in Gen 7 only, the pinch berries restored 50% HP when at 25% or below, the same range as Wishiwashi de-schooling at the end of the turn). It seems too perfect to be a coincidence, and it's a neat bit of synergy I feel. Still not amazing, but I do love the little fish a lot so I put together this hypothesis for them

[@PoisonFlower765]

I feel like Flying Press could have been buffed in a way that wasn't just a flat 20BP increase. Like. Just give it double STAB. This would mean Hawlucha goes from deal 1.5x STAB damage with it to 2.25x. There really ought to be more moves like this though tbh.

[@Devshujin]

can you do a video on all the buffs game freak tries to give pikachu to make it relevant (gimmick moves like surf, all the pikachu costume forms, let’s go pikachu on crack etc etc) also just wanted to say i’m very glad to know i’ve been following this channel since i think the 2nd or third powerpoint i’ve loved the growth in the channel and rlly helped me love smogon again and as a totally not closeted trans girl having a voice like yours in the community helps make it a more comforting place ❤️❤️

[@piratebear3126]

I've come to love Archeops recently, whose Ability is similar to Wishiwashi where it gets weaker when Archeops is below 50% HP. In Archeops case it halves both of its attack stats, which are normally monsterously high. GF really needs to tweak older negative abilities now that Pokemon wouldn't be broken without them.

[@frankwest5388]

looking at Gen 9 pokemon, you can see how many of these ability gimmicks were revisited and remade, on a mon with the stats to take advantage of them. A water type, that changes between the weakest stats in the game, over to borderline legendary ones is an almost direct adaption of Schooling that we see in Palafin. And then there are some other busted abilities like that of the legendary bicycles with are like 3 abilites at once. Remember when Pressure was considered a decent ability, because it was better than having no ability? Gen 3 players do

[@shytendeakatamanoir9740]

The funny thing is that there are actually two moves based around Plus/Minus. Magnetic Flux boosts both your allies defense, and Gear Up (limited to Magearna and Klinklang) boosts both offenses. They really tried to do... something with it, but it never worked

[@masterofchaos7282]

I’d honestly want more moves like flying press to be made but with more complimentary types. Like imagine flying with fire instead. Yeah rock double resists it but you also make any grass or bug type horrified to get near you. If I were to buff plus and minus, I’d probably make them work somewhat like simple with plus doubling all the buffs the pokemon can give out with its moves and item and minus doubling the debuffs on top of their doubles ability so they can somewhat still work in singles. This would make Klinklang and Toxtricity slightly terrifying due to shift gear but I’d be interested to see it.

[@wanderingtyphlosion7332]

Komala was very fun to use in the Battle Tree with Banded Sleep Talk into Last Resort

[@Clipsproducer]

fr

[@trueprismatic]

2:55 the reason it counts for beat up is because komala is only asleep when the ability activates, and the ability isn't active when it is in the party.

[@isoldemaisol3709]

When you think about it, Wishiwashi basically has Archeops Defeatist, but worse.

[@dragoknighte48]

Eh which is worse is up for debate. Defeatist kicking in at 50% is a lot less breathing room than schooling's 25%, especially since Archeops is weak to rocks and boots not existing in older gens.

[@Connor_Kirkpatrick]

@@dragoknighte48 Archeops only loses some of its stats, Wishiwashi absolutely drops off the face of the earth

[@norbertoiiitadeo3184]

​@@Connor_Kirkpatrickwishiwashi was about to drop anyway if it was

[@Connor_Kirkpatrick]

@@norbertoiiitadeo3184 Bulky TR sweepers go that low pretty often in my experience

[@greyscaleadaven]

@@dragoknighte48 On paper I think you're right. But Archeops's ability just fits better for its role, being a glass cannon attacker. Its stats are designed for it to hit hard and fast, but go down quickly. So Defeatist plays into that, and as a result it isn't as punishing as something like Schooling is for a defensive pokemon even with double the HP range of a proc. It also had roost to mitigate this drop if it so wished. Heavy Duty Boots competed with Meteor Beam Power Herb in SS, so it was fairly inconsequential to why Archeops succeeded or failed. It fell a tier after HDB's introduction instead of growing in singles like other rocks weak mons, and didn't use them in doubles with Life Orb taking that slot for Weezing + Archeops Dynamax strats. Archeops is good or bad depending on what offensive items or mechanics have to offer it I think at least, in Gen 5 it peaked with Acro Flying Gem but Acro was unsynergistic with Z-Crystals. As a result of Flying Gem's removal, in later gens it failed with more defensive/utility focused sets. Also it got power crept which didn't help lmao but if it were legal this gen, no doubt it would get better with Tera to boost its power and cover weaknesses of it's bad typing. Ground and Fire come to mind, Ground being able to answer paralysis and electric or rock moves, and Fire being anti-burn while also answering steel and ice defensively. Both of them also boost already strong coverage it has in Heat Wave and Earthquake. Nat Dex is pretty power crept, but I think it could have a chance of getting out of PU at least if it had been included this gen.

[@TheRageBaiter]

Wishiwashi should get fishous rend. It would then be a vicious trick room mon that you need to keep healthy between the 5 turn onslaught.

[@Mr.Cynical]

This is why I'm fine with them evolving Komala over other gimmick Pokémon. It just doesn't feel like it's at it's full potential yet.

[@johnedwards4313]

Ampharos and toxtricity are a pretty good plus and minus team. If they both use magentic flux they double their defenses. Then you can add amphraos's screens on top of that to make them immortal. You just need a member of your team to tailwind beforehand and play around ground types for the first turn theyre out

[@Connor_Kirkpatrick]

Slow flip turn coming off a 140 attack stat with good bulk sounds amazing on Wishiwashi. Maybe it could be helped out by wish passers or grassy terrain

[@NinetyNineNo]

They really should add more dual-type moves, it's such a neat concept with a ton of design space. Of course by definition they're not gonna be super impressive coverage-wise since they won't fill any holes the two component types fail to hit normally, but it's still something that I'm surprised hasn't been done more for purely flavor reasons.

[@Gamer3427]

In a similar boat is Shedinja's Wonderguard ability. It's either extremely broken, or entirely useless, depending on what moves the opponent has. The main issue is that it's on a pokemon that has a ton of weaknesses that are really common, so even against AI trainers in the base games, there's a very high chance that they have some way to instantly kill it. It also gets easily knocked out by any form of indirect damage, making it even easier to knock it out with something like burn or sandstorm. It's an ability that in theory can be super broken, particularly if you do some setup to make it a lot easier to protect the pokemon, but in practice you're almost always going to be better off with something else outside of very specific situations.

[@jaleelkahn7032]

Fighting needed a move as useful as freeze dry. And to not delete sky uppercut. I quite loved that move on Blaziken

[@banditrests]

The problem with flying press is that it, like many signature moves, is stuck on a Pokémon that doesn’t want to use it but it would probably be good on something else. A decent STAB fighting move that’s super effective into grass types would help Pokémon that struggle to hit them super effectively like water or grass fighting types. Not that urshifu RS really needs more stuff. Wishiwashi is pretty easy to fix, just give it shore up or reverse the activation condition to low health like zygarde complete and it would be a pretty nasty trick room sweeper in lower tiers. Comatose is tough, it’s strictly outclassed by good as gold, purifying salt and to a certain extent even guts but it would be really busted on other sleep based Pokémon like snorlax. Probably not great on musharna though lol.

[@rockowlgamer631]

I really love Wishwashi's premise but man the 45 HP stat just ruins it for the poor bastard. Maybe if they want to, they could take 20 out of both attacking stats and give it to HP to boost it to 85 which would be decent right? Sure it wouldn't hit as hard but at least it gains some Hp bulk.

[@sinteleon]

There's also Zen mode, which kinda failed... The regional variant kinda succeeded, outside of the mon simply having a nearly always superior ability option.

[@notehope389]

Dang, my two favorite Pokemon in the thumbnail.

[@kking1173]

You get a Plusle in Pokemon Colloseum pretty early, Minun is transfer only. Yeah it's a cruel joke, Plus and Minus may aswell be unused content.

[@robertlupa8273]

ye but that Plusle is pretty underleveled from what I've heard

[@eeveewithcoffee9554]

If plus and minus worked on matching abilities in the party instead of on the field, and worked with either two plus, two minus, or one each, and gave a plus 1 attack and special attack would that be broken? Or it could be just a 1.3x boost like booster energy

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

it would have to be distributed carefully but could maybe work

[@mccartney7762]

55 Bagons 55 Fearow 55 Toucannons 55 Seels 55 Throhs 100 Sandy Shocks 100 Klinklangs 100 Gibles 100 Zangoose 100 Plusles 155 Minun

[@pocket2496]

how many lions does it take to beat this

[@Gloomdrake]

@@pocket2496depends, do they have prep time?

[@unknowntsukuyomi5692]

You should do a video about Mamoswine, I think it’s recent buffs to the move pool would make a fun one

[@jeremyburkinshaw8403]

Fun fact, I had a lot of fun with a Wishiwashi-Comfey Dynamic team in SwSh. Comfey activated Weakness Policy with +3 priority Giga Drain (only stopped by Raichur Fake Out), had access to TR, and gave recovery with Floral Healing. It also gave Wishiwashi better coverage via Dynamax Mud-Slap for Sp.def bulk, and Rain boosted Liquidations hit like a truck. Much fun!

[@liampowers8570]

Flying press feels like the rough draft of freeze dry

[@gillydilly7618]

1:24 “fucking rest” felt that in my SOUL.

[@TheMurrmursonbottle]

Komala was always a really fun wallbreaker in random battles. Immune to status & usually has choice band so it hit like a truck

[@frogsnidget_7345]

Interestingly Komala can use snore just normally thanks to a the ability. Give it a scarf and could actually start flinching things

[@conorandkanohi]

Thank you for reminding me to do my daily click!

[@jamiefuller6529]

When Komala was announced, I thought him being constantly asleep would mean you had to use sleep talk every turn. Thought he would evolve into a Slaking type monster, with a drawback of not being able to pick your moves

[@starmantheta2028]

Would love to see another vid about Pokémon better in doubles, be that doubles OU or VGC. Anything to showcase Regigigas' and Articuno's glowups.

[@PlusmaGun]

Hex would indeed do double damage against Komala - if its typing didn't block Hex from even landing!

[@yomomlol9808]

Wishiwashi, if buffed to have 30 more in hp and have the negative effect canceled out by neutralizing gas, has potential to be pretty good in regional dex formats

[@PKMN649]

I think a good rework for Plus and Minus would be to make them buff their ally regardless of if the other is on the field but then either double the buff or add an extra buff if both are on the field. Like: Plus, Boosts SpAtk of ally by 1.5×, doubles if ally has Minus. And maybe give Minus a defensive buff where is gives an evolite boost if Plus in also on the field or something. Both giving a specs boost is cool tho. It just sucks that it only functions with the other on the field

[@whatamidoing725]

My favorite tech with komala has to be the banded sleep talk last resort and its only those two moves

[@joozhuah8017]

Idk if it’s something you’re interested in but I would love to see your format used for “guides” to competitive Pokémon. Your videos got me back into playing Showdown but I would have no idea where to start with team building or anything like that, your concise and efficient videos would be a great fit if you were interested

[@Yam-jt3vw]

Thanks for reminding me to do my daily click

[@byrontheusurper6505]

I didn't know that's how comatose works, how cool

[@MrGhosta5]

You forgot that pika libre also gets flying press. In Pikachu's case it's actually pretty decent type coverage.

[@Bird-wz7nx]

Entrainment Minus/Plus is a legitimate combo, the only problem is that its stuck on Minun. It turns a liability Ability into a viable power up to allies with otherwise meh abilities and nerfs opponents who rely on their abilities, which is happening more and more these days. If Minun had good stats, (and maybe one other good Plus/Minus mon existed and wasn't ground weak to carry momentum) it would absolutely see use IMO, as entrainment Minus is multifunctional, and it has a good support movepool otherwise.

[@Nate3417]

The one thing that saves Wishiwashi in lower-power VGC formats is Helping Hand, so it can at least act as a support you cant ignore for free while at low HP, and the only time Plusle and Minun have ever heen strong is in the Indigo Disk where literally your first introduction to the region is an Elite Four member beating you down with them as revenge for ignoring them for twenty years.

[@endy7630]

Schooling form should double Wishiwashi's HP

[@spacebar-vx7ck]

i know a guy who plays national dex who runs komala with banded sleep talk last resort. terrifying

[@iancrix]

I tried both Ampharos (Sitrus Berry + Tera Fairy) and Toxtricity (Choice Specs + Tera Flying) on Reg A with plus/minus, didn't seem too bad. Got many Spa Atk drops and still wiped enemy team with only them both left.

[@georgecortes3416]

With the Flying Press bit, I'm reminded of the incomplete Google Doc I wrote to make older Legendaries good again. And two of them were Kantonian Zapdos & Moltres in which I gave them signature Flying moves that are kinda similar to the weather genies' "storm" moves. For Zapdos, it's a special attack that hits both targets in double battles, has a 30% chance to paralyze, and is super-effective against Water & Flying-Types while not being blocked by Ground-Types. Same goes for Moltres, except it's way stronger with less accuracy (bypasses this under Sun and Rain though), has a 30% burn chance, and hits Ice & Steel-Types for super-effective damage (aka the two types Flying doesn't share with Fire for super-effective matchups). You might wonder why Articuno wasn't mentioned, but that's because I gave it a signature healing move instead.

[@camillalapolentona84480]

Don't know what they were brewing with Komala tbh, can't wait for the gen 10 evolution Savesta tho

[@MaahirMomtaz12]

We need more moves like Flying Press. Also it got buffed to 100 BP in Gen 7

[@PS1-Hagrid]

Wishiwashi should have a signature healing move. Call it shoal or shoaling. Basically water type Shore up. Recovery that is boosted in rain.

[@darcidious99]

Flying press just feels like a poor man's freeze dry, where it should have been a fighting move that also did super effective damage on either bug, grass or fighting types (prob fighting since y'know... Its a flying press on other fighters). As for schooling, idc if its good its just a really cool idea that I wanna see more pokemon do. Have a colony of ants all swarm together and turn into something that would scare off a bird pokemon like a massive goliath birdeater.

[@ravenatort]

Baxcaliber's ability is cool since it can't be burned, however most fire type moves do major damage, and the one stage attack boost isn't very helpful if that's the only booster you're running on it

[@pawouapproval984]

Funny that a komala stall team hit high ladder recently

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

yeah LOL that team was awesome

[@MiniOre2]

Flying Press should not have factored in the others resisted types that neutralizes it (for example fighting is super effective to steel but flying isn't, and so is rock and bug) and should've just made it super effective to those types anyways

[@bananaspice1967]

Wishywashy needs to be faster in the school form. Maybe even just 70 or 80 speed would already go a long way.

[@christiancinnabars1402]

Flying Press would be so much better if not only was it bumped up to ~120 bp, but also raised to 100% accuracy. I have no idea why it has to not only be significantly weaker than HJK, but also inaccurate by 5%. With these changes, it would be a good fourth move to use alongside CC and Acrobatics. Don't know whether your opponent is going into Great Tusk, Ting-Lu, Kingambit, or Zamazenta? Then click the funny signature move. For Wishiwashi, Schooling needs to do something other than just change its form. It's Attack, Defense, Sp. Atk, and Sp. Def look amazing on paper, but its pathetic 45 base HP completely undermines its defenses - leaving it with only its Attack and Sp. Atk to show off. It ends up being a slow, somewhat powerful cannon, whose Ability only nerfs its stats if it falls below 25% (so its HP pool is technically _lower_ than it already is if you count only the amount that lets it fulfill its niche). Being introduced in the same generation as Ash Greninja, who is only slightly more frail in exchange for being way faster and hitting harder with an ability that also turbo boosts its priority move into guaranteed 60 bp, you can see which one was OU and which one fell straight to ZU. If Schooling also gave its single target attacks two additional hits at 10% power - hell, we can get creative and make it 8 hits; the first at 50% power and the rest at 10% power - to show that it is, you know, a Schooling fish, then that would at least give it more utility and a much needed extra bit of power. _Or_ it could provide defensive utility, and make it immune to priority moves. Because schooling fish swim in schools potentially to overload a predator's senses when it charges into the school, any opponent blindly rushing into Wishiwashi's school would get overwhelmed and easily avoided by all the small fish comprising it. Or maybe both can be implemented at the same time. Komala just needs an evolution. It's movepool is already really good (getting Swords Dance when, you know, Solgaleo doesn't). All it needs are the stats to back it up. Even just 30s to its HP and Defense would result in a WishPassing nightmare, with it Wish Protect U-Turning all over the meta while being completely immune to status. For the Plus/Minus strategy, all that is needed is for a Flying mon to get the ability. Honestly, Emolga should have been the one (instead getting Static, because nothing says useful like Zapdos with 55/60/60 defenses), but if they ever want to make the abilities, and thus Ampharos, Toxtricity, and Manectric, VGC viable, then introducing an Electric or Steel Flying mon that is then immune to Earthquake would immediately boost the strategy's viability by a country mile. If you've read this far, clicky the linky in the description.

[@fuzzydude64]

And every battle mechanic besides doubles, the only one to actually stick around. And it's mostly spinoffs that use them.

[@ewwitscullen9132]

Wishiwashi makes me so sad because it’s such a cool idea and I love the design of both forms, such a shame.

[@yuujin8194]

A move like frying press could easily be insane, but only in the situation where the two types have a few overlapping super effective hits. Something like steel/poison being 4x super effective vs pure fairy, or fighting/ground vs steel, water/ground vs fire and rock, and so on. These moves would be very strong but have some significant draw backs too because 4x resists would exist and in some cases there would be new immunities of a sort (like how if flying press was hawlucha's only flying coverage, grass/ghost mons wouldn't be afraid of him in the slightest). Oh, and there's also situations where 8x and 16x super effective or resisted moves could exist (like the previously mentioned water/ground attack wourd hisuian arcanine for 16x damage but bounce off ludicolo with 1/8th damage.) There's a lot of interesting experimentation gamefreak could do with this, and as long as the moves were signature to specific mons it could be kept from getting out of hand pretty easily.

[@todesrolle2393]

i dont know if you have, but damage overtime effect PowerPoint, for attacks like leech seed, salt cure or abilities like bad dreams.

[@EnderPryde]

1:53 Well, it *would* take double damage from Hex if Komala also wasn't just immune on account of being Normal type. Sure, Wake Up Slap always does x4 damage instead of X2, but that's also not really a move to begin with. (Yes, you can tera into another type to turn these around, but Komala is not the type of pokemon that *wants* a different type in the first place)

[@Juniper_Rose]

flying press could so easily be fixed by just like. making it work like freeze dry. no "it deals damage as both"; just make it super effective against (other types) effective types. so if it's flying, it deals super effective damage to steel, rock AND grass types.

[@ethanwhite6028]

You should maybe try a video on Pokemon buffing/nerfing pokemon

[@Iris_Descent]

when you think about it really hard, wishiwashi is like dusknoir 2

[@dustinbragg1921]

I think Wishiwashi should learn Heal, Attack, and Defend Order. I know they're Vespiquen's moves, but Wishiwashi is the embodiment of her gimmick, swarm the shit out of things. Plus and Minus need to do more to be valid Abilities given their awful paired requirement. I'd suggest if two of the same ability are present on the field the holders both get +0.5× SAtk, levitate (Magnet Rise effect), and do 50% less damage to each other. If two pokemon with both Plus and Minus are on the field the holders get +0.5× SAtk, are treated as though they are on Electric Terrain regardless of the global terrain status or if they're levitating, and heal 1/16 max hp every turn. These abilities apply both to your side and your opponent's; a Plusle/Minun vs Minun/Plusle mirror match would have all pokemon on both sides +1.0× SAtk, levitating, damage to opposing match halved, Electric Terrain, and 1/16 max hp regeneration. Which sounds really obnoxious when I put it like that, but such a scenario is highly unlikely.

[@ClintonKE]

Gimmicks are fun. You see stuff like Truant from good old Slaking. One of the pokemon mystery dungeon games had the thing set up yawn status Gotta wonder how much that would affect competitive...

[@Slushea]

also mini question, is there any 2 types that combined have zero overlap, my current answer is ground/ghost.

[@hondaaccord1399]

Hey what? Komala's so cool, I love that he can't get paralyzed! He would be scarier if he was faster...

[@yoshister]

At least Wishiwashi is awesome in an ingame playthrough...

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

oh absolutely. still one of my personal fav mons

[@vdd1001]

Idk I think these gimmicks are cool for the games themselves, not the competitive scene. And I thought flying press only hits the super effective side, but they probably didn't do that because hawlucha is already really strong and having 2 stabs in one doesn't seem too balanced. Maybe they could do that, a move with 2 types that hits on the super effective side if it can, but a bit weaker, like 70bp, or stronger but only give it to weaker pokemon, which is another way to balance it

[@raulvsr]

i had some success in gen 7 ou with wishiwashi and it was a lot of fun

[@TaIathar]

I'm convinced Comatose was a test dummy for Good as Gold

[@lancesmith8298]

Flying Press is such a bad move that I genuinely did not know that it was double-typed, and not just an autocorrect to super effective damage. Why.

[@lunamagnoliid8984]

It would be better if Plus/Minus was like, if the ally in alive in the team, gain +1(sp)atk, y'know?

[@pketr5]

Did you know that Komala was actually nerfed? It used to be able to learn Last Resort, but they removed it. It was able to run Sleep Talk, Last Resort and no other moves. Slap it with a Choice Band , click Sleep Talk and you have a Choice Banded 140 BP STAB attack on turn 1 from 115 Attack. Was it effective? No, you get walled by Steels, Rocks and Ghosts. Was it funny? Definitely.

[@fsgdevil7959]

One thing to mention, earthquake is not a very common move in doubles as it is usually not worth playing around hitting your partner

[@ElectricWindGirlFriend]

EQ tends to be super format-dependent, yeah. Rn Pokémon like Rillaboom really hurt it’s viability with terrain, but when the power is a bit lower it gets really powerful. Atm tho it isn’t around at all.

[@Zay-zg8js]

i rarely ever see earthquake in doubles

[@terririnella4032]

as someone who never plays competitive....i kind of wished there were more 2 typing moves. I get why it could suck for competitive, but in the base game, it's a cool move i would love to use, and any pokemon that can fly or float, but isn't permanently doing so, should use that move.... the Gligar line comes to mind, maybe Farfetch'd line as for Wishiwashi, i would love more pokemon to have that ability, based on other animals that flock together.....grasshoppers/locusts, bird flocks, squid pokemon. It could also do with an addition to it's ability, for example, it can make opponents move less accurate or makes it more evasive, or immune to status conditions, because status conditions affect a single pokemon, and a schooling pokemon is many, unless it's due to a move like Burning Jealousy, that burns all pokemon with a boosted stat (i think that is how the move works). it would also be a major animation addition and effort, but as it gets more hurt, it shrinks or is missing pieces (it wouldn't affect it's stats). Comatose would be better if once on the field, both pokemon's abilities become comatose...unless it's ability is negated, or it's opponent can't change abilities (an ability or move)or has the non-sleeping abilities, like Vital Spirit or Insomnia (Comatose would work like Intimidate and only work on first opponent). Then give Komala a lot of sleep or status based moves, like Facade, Hex, Wake-Up Slap, Dream Eater or Nightmare. I move version of Bad Dreams ability or a trapping move, where the opponent can't switch out and takes damage/restores Komala's health every turn. I like Komala so i want more and better moves, maybe even an evolution, give it a sleeping cap, or have it develop a relationship with a regional Delibird, that delivers sleep sand (based around the Sandman)...a move called ZZZ sand, a ground based move that heals any pokemon asleep or Comatose, or Snooze Button, traps a sleeping or comatose pokemon, lowering it's energy and heals opponent each turn (a sleep leech seed) no clue how to improve Plus or Minus, unless it raises all stats by one stage, and it comes with a move to decrease any pokemon without Plus or Minus. I was eager to use these abilities in game as far back as Pokemon Ruby....it never worked well or was noticeable, Plusle and Minum's movepools sucking didn't help.

[@GohTheGreat]

If Plus and Minus was made in gen 9, it would give an omni boost.

[@ManyTanks1]

If comatose was on a gen 9 mon it’d have chien pao tier stats

[@redvsblueftw]

Good thing they didn't comatose or anything similar to a good pokemon! Like a steel/ghost type with nasty plot and a spread draco meteor that only lowers SpA by one stage.