A real look at GW vs OPR

In this video I compare the games of one page rules and the companies as a whole. I try to remain impartial and give a no BS assessment on 11 points between the 2 companies and their flagship games, Warhammer 40k and Grimdark Future.
music by ‪@WhiteBatAudio‬

[@silentjoe4475]

Another good thing about OPR is a lot of older gamers are blowing the dust off their minis and returning to the gaming table. I've reconnected with people I haven't seen in twenty years.

[@House-Atreides]

Agreed. This is a key demo for OPR. Cheers to Dadhammer!

[@suddenlysarablog]

LOL I dusted off my 20-year old Necrons with all the green rods in their guns in prep for 10E 40k, thinking I'd get back into it after all this time. I took one look at the new prices and the absolute maelstrom of rules changes and complexity and Nope'd right the hell out. OPR was there to catch me on my way back OUT of the hobby and now I've got several friends all interested in playing, so my 20 year old models get to see daylight (and fresh paint!) again!

[@YeAuldGrump]

One of the OPR players in my group is using 5th edition Brettonians that he got from his dad. The figures are older than he is. His dad was intending to use the lizardmen, but got distracted by a 3D printer - he now has an OPR Saurian army.

[@bendelaughter]

I absolutely loved 40k, but could not keep up with it. I also don't have 5 hours to play a single game when I got 2 kids, a wife, a business, and a yard that has a knack for growing weeds. OPR has allowed my brother and I to start playing again, which has been great.

[@jeffruss8769]

I don't care about tournaments! I just want simple rules that work so I can use my models to play with my friends in my club. Thanks OPR for doing that.

[@YeAuldGrump]

In general, publicly held companies are horrible for creative endeavors - be it GW or WotC. Folks sometimes blame the 'bean counters' for the problems, but Reaper Miniatures was founded by bean counters, and is one of the better miniatures companies. (Accountants whose biggest clients were in manufacturing. So, in order to understand manufacturing better, and become better accountants, they started their own manufacturing firm, originally using molds from a defunct company, then expanding from there. They are good folks!)

[@fart7361]

Reaper kicks ass. I get like 90 percent of my minis from there. Best quality ive found for the price.

[@DominatorLegend]

I swear WotC and GW are fighting to become the worst game company on the planet.

[@IHaveAName1824]

this comment gave me flashbacks to the insane ranting of kevin

[@YeAuldGrump]

@@IHaveAName1824 Kevin... S... by any chance?

[@ImperialGit]

OPR should name HDF "Imperial Guard", GW can't copyright that, and it is a void waiting to be filled.

[@WarbossFitz]

They are a little too wary of the lawyers. I named a unit in the army builder "iron warriors" and it got flagged for me to change it

[@ralphhathaway-coley5460]

@@WarbossFitz Hope you changed it to 'Ion Warriors' 😉

[@KrullMaestaren]

​@WarbossFitz That is taking it way to far. GW would get laughed out of court, maybe even receiving a perma ban if they came and wanted to sue OPR because one of their customers named a unit "iron warriors" which they must have a questionable tm on.

[@Shadowknightneo]

Remember it's not always about winning at court but about outspending your legal opponent. GW can afford to throw cash at lawyers because they have it to burn to protect their IP. Meanwhile OPR would have a harder time keeping up with various lawsuits that would require proper rebuttals and if any made it to actual trial that easily quadruples the price of a good lawyer. It's not about winning court cases for GW, just making sure the others can't put up a fight back.

[@samhale5413]

I had avoided WH for years, but recently life events brought me to it. During my research I learned about OPR. Not having come from a war gaming background, the rules for WH and even OPR didn't make any sense without seeing an explanation video on YT. All this to say, from a new player's perspective, OPR is a clear winner for actually playing a game with friends on a weekend. WH has better lore and pretty models, but that isn't what I'm in it for.

[@omnissiahGaspar]

I use my warhammer models and lore in one page rules game so i get the best of both worlds

[@suddenlysarablog]

My husband is not a wargamer either, and I've asked him about getting into 40k several times which he's always been hesitant to do. The moment I showed him OPR, he was super into the idea, and we even made a few army lists together that he seems very enthusiastic about printing!

[@toastle8005]

Have fun mate! :)

[@toastle8005]

@@suddenlysarablog good luck to both of you, what’s he playing?

[@cyclone8974]

I am the opposite I took an honestly look at One Page Rules and I am not impressed. I'd rather deal with the over priced models and rule books.

[@joshgrillo2482]

Geedubs business practices will eventually crater the company in pursuit of the short term cashgrab. When that happens, I hope that someone with the resources can salvage what's left, take it private, and make it about the games again.

[@suddenlysarablog]

Honestly, tho, people have been saying that for decades now. The problem is the ubiquity of their name in the hobby space. There are legit people (in 2024!!) who didn't know there were other wargames besides 40k/AoS. Even if you go online looking for ancillary hobby videos like painting vids, 95% of them are painting GW miniatures (and almost always space marines). They've secured themselves as synonymous with Miniature Wargaming the same way D&D has secured themselves as "THE" TTRPG. It's going to take a LOT for them to lose that place in the hobby space, and it'll most likely take another company stepping forward and outing them from their throne to do it.

[@Yurikan]

@@suddenlysarablog Technically Warhammer 40k is the center piece and AoS is kind a distant second.

[@ilmozzo]

If I started counting how much money I have given to GW in over 10 years of hobby, I could afford to go to Nottingham and demand to stay with them for a few years without spending a cent...I've had enough, and they will never see anything from me again.

[@BoOb-yd4dk]

You have had enough of voluntarily buying hobby supplies? Wow more power to you. Hope you aren’t such a victim in other areas of your life.

[@ilmozzo]

@@BoOb-yd4dk Thank you for your analysis. I work and pay taxes, and with what remains, I've decided how to manage my life. You've probably assumed that I've spent all my money on GW. Obviously, that's not the case, but from what I had allocated to wargaming, GW received most of it for a long time. Have a good life.

[@ravenRedwake]

40K is billed as a 5 turn game but practically it’s a 3 turn game, that calls itself a 5 turn game.

[@nathangerardy2669]

Great vid! I have so many minis from games that are dead now. Wrath of Kings for example had some cool minis I plan to design an army for them in OPR. The fact that I can even do that makes OPR better in so many ways.

[@raeishimura]

I've enjoyed One Page Rules more in the maybe 3 years i've been playing than I had in a decade with Warhammer 40k. And the fact i can easily use my old 40k armies or 3D print new stuff or really do anything i actually want has been a huge push for me creatively. The ability to do that has pushed me from a mediocre miniature painter to having won my first painting competition. It also got me started looking into many other tabletop games, expanding my horizons and having a lot of fun with a ton of new things. I think the biggest advantage GW has is brand recognition, like Kleenex. Since i started trying new games, I've discovered that there are so many games with just... better gameplay entirely. Just objectively better really. Honestly, if GW had released Warhammer 40k as it is today at the same time as the many fantastic tabletop wargames that have come out recently, I don't think they ever would have lasted. The only thing they have going for them is their brand recognition and pop culture status.

[@elizabethmilward8301]

They do have the lore, which matters to a lot of people. But yeah, I don't think they'd do too well if they didn't already have a massive player base and huge name recognition. The prices and the endless rule changes are really offputting to me as a new wargamer. The only reason I wind up considering Games Workshop is that it is what almost everyone else is playing, plus the lore. Then I look at the prices again and all the drama and rule change shananigans again and go nah.

[@terrainaholic]

Love the over view!!!! I'm an EXTRA smooth brained orc because I could never wrap my head around warhammer fantasy or grim dark:)!!! Now after watching you explain the rules I DON'T FEEL SO BAD!!! Any ways down loadable files for pennies on the minis for the win!!!!!

[@masterwilliam8704]

Ever since I left GW I have never regretted it. Loved the community video, hope there will be more.

[@WarbossFitz]

There definitely will be 😊

[@joshuafarlow-wolgast8082]

For years, I have been annoyed with it being a public company. The only time I really liked GW as a company was the time when they released the "Start Collecting" boxes when the new president came on board. Actual deals were good. Now I look at the Seraphon Spearhead, and it is almost double the price in 5 years really makes a statement. The only things I really would want to buy would be the launch boxes as they have actual value to them. I have wanted to try OPR for awhile. It sounds good from what you have laid out.

[@yingling69]

This video appeared in my recommended playlist after looking for 40K alternatives for the same reasons you presented here. I’m a cranky, old grognard who’s been squandering his time and kids’ inheritance on British metal / plastic minis since 3rd ed. and have no more patience for GW’s foolishness. I can’t change the world, but I can change where I spend my bit of disposable income. Thank you for this presentation. I will definitely look into OPR more closely. I may even be able to finally get a 3D printer with the savings! Subbed and looking forward to seeing more of your work.

[@JuanOchoa]

I resisted wargaming until printers and OPR made them affordable. No turning back now.

[@johncloud3823]

I moved to a new area after previous employment fell apart, and going from a “warhammer only” are to a “yeah, we all play OPR here” was absolutely amazing after so long trying to find someone who preferred the system! My vote is definitely in favor of one page rules.

[@SigmaUrash]

I'd argue that Battletech is comparable to 40K in lore depth and fiction published.

[@jocylinfrancis930]

I’d have to look it up, but considering it’s been around longer than 40k I wouldn’t be surprised

[@WarbossFitz]

thats true. Battletech has been coming back to being a popular game again. I remember playing when I was much younger with the "older gamers" at the store and having a blast. literally. My LRM ammo detonated.

[@molenat9973]

@@jocylinfrancis930if it is longer, it’s not by much. That being said, there have been numerous companies holding the Battletech IP, so the lore and minis have had some real rough times. I’m not a huge fan of the current holder (CGL) due to their political stance on some things and bringing that to the community, and on top of that, the recent kickstarter debacle. Overall though, Battletech is arguably more popular than it’s ever been I think. I play and it’s quite fun

[@suddenlysarablog]

@@WarbossFitz I'm 44 now... I grew up playing Battletech in HIGH SCHOOL. I have such fond memories of it. We played it more as a roleplaying game than a wargame tho, with our personal stories played in Mechwarrior being punctuated by in-mech battles using Battletech. That's another major bonus of Battletech is the ability to do that!

[@WarbossFitz]

@@suddenlysarablog I would love to play in a MechWarrior RPG. I even set one up to be the GM of a periphery states MechWarrior lance game dealing with pirates and other weird edge of the galaxy stuff but I could never get it off the ground with the group I play with.

[@Dominik189]

I wholeheartedly agree with everything said in the video. Great video. I love 40k, but I refuse to support GW. Print my minis myself and play my own home-brewed OPR ruleset. It is absolutely brilliant. I have gotten family members who use to call me stupid and make fun of me for it into now having several armies and making time on weekends to come visit me and play a game or two. OPR to me has the potential to blow GW out of the water, simply because they're not miniature specific on their rules.

[@LifeofSquidMann]

OPR solely for the fact that you'll never need to rebuy your army to keep playing.

[@HappyNoob17YT]

you can still play old units in 40k with your friends which is how most people play so it makes one page rules useless. and OPR is one of the biggest rip offs in existance.

[@LifeofSquidMann]

@@HappyNoob17YT There are units and characters with no datasheets in 10th Edition. Not even in Legends.

[@D_A42]

@@HappyNoob17YT Yeah! Spending $5 one time -and canceling immediately- to get a balanced ruleset to play with friends, using any model you want is a scam. Instead, we should spend $100 for the core rules, $60 for the codex (Both will be out of date by the time it is in your hand), $40 for every basic infantry unit on a 20 year old sprue, another $36 for each HQ unit on a 15 year old sprue, another $60 or more per tank/apc on a 20 year old sprue. Once we have spent the price of a pre owned car for a 2000 point army ($1200 - $2200 depending on army and available bundles), we can spend every waking moment keeping up with erratas, rule changes, and trying do decipher arcane language just to be sure neither of us are cheating on accident. You sir, are a smart consoooooooomer.

[@Impleione]

@@HappyNoob17YT how's OPR a ripoff? I mean it's literally free, at the base level... not a lot they're ripping there IMHO.

[@mattbuckley6928]

​@@HappyNoob17YT if you mean rip off as in "stolen ideas" you -really- need to see where 40k got all of its influences from. It's ripped off everything from The Foundation to Judge Dredd. That in itself is fine but if you're going to criticise anyone for ripping off GW is right up there and way above OPR.

[@theAV8R]

I'm GW's target market: "price-insensitive". However, two non-cost problems killed it not long before buying 2,000 point armies for six factions. i) the fact that I can't get all the rules in one place. Even if I buy all the codices, its still a major pain in the ass to figure out what my opponent can do. I need a bunch of separate pdfs or books to search through for every game. ii) the extremely short rules life cycle. The 10th edition is still only half baked, halfway i to its release. This shouldnt even count as its own official release until 3 years after rules are finalized. Or Hell, 8 years after rules are finalized. These guys want to be the porsche of games, and I respect that. However, they need to learn to treat their customers as such, with automatic pdf copies of updated books with each change. This last balance patch had all a bunch of separate documents! Not a single revised main rulebook. Jesus these guys are freaking amateurs. Imagine, they could have had $25,000 from me on day 1, and gotten five in my family hooked, had they not cur off their nose to spite their face.

[@nathangerardy2669]

Heya Fitz great video! I would love a video series showing how to get started with OPR. From deciding on an army, deciding on an army list, to getting your rules and then a simple game then advanced rules game. A guide for the interested but no idea where to start noob.

[@danielhall5554]

Brother, you earned a sub from me earlier today even before I saw this video. I've been enjoying your army breakdowns! Keep up the good work.

[@MiniWarMutt]

Awesome video! Thank you for sharing. Yes, your channel and the others you advertise all been a part of me getting into this OPR game. I'm hoping to have my very first GD Firefight video up soon. Yes, I'm sure there will be flaws, but this looks like it will be my jam! Keep up the awesome work!

[@WarbossFitz]

That's great!

[@makdaddi3921]

GW and GW apologists claim GW is primarily a miniatures company. Miniatures shackled and driven to rules renders this argument quite disingenuous,

[@BAGELMENSK]

You gotta tone down the rhetoric bro you sound like a twitter person

[@lemongambit]

GW is a miniatures company! Until you say then make the rules free and the codexes based on art. Then GW is a tabletop game company. Unless you want to print proxies. Then GW a miniatures company again and you're hurting artists. Unless...

[@Gakusangi]

No need to be vague, we know the prices: The Core Rule Book on its own is going to run you $65 USD. As for a starter box, an Introductory Box which is five intercessors and 10-ish Tyranids with a basic handbook which is goes for $65 again. A Starter Set, which comes with a little bit more than what the Introductory Set came with as far as tools for playing the game (dice, measuring sticks, flat terrain, etc.) that'll run you $112. The big Leviathan Box which comes with the full Core Rule Book and a very small Space Marine and Tyranid deployment goes for $300+ (about $325, last I checked). Also, no joke, just as mentioned in the video only about 60+ pages are actual rules in the Core Rule Book, the rest of the over 330 pages are mostly just lore and cool stuff people you don't know built. They charged you $65 for that. Another table top game that competes with Warhammer 40k with regards to robust and ongoing lore would be something like Battletech. It's been around longer than 40K just fewer people talk about all the books and games and stuff that encompass its history. Loved the vid, I have been leaning more towards OPR because it just felt like it was faster-paced with a greater emphasis on hurrying up and getting things on the board to play and not getting bogged down in too much complexity. Also, they're not asking me to pay $82 for a single, plastic model.

[@Ryudarwolf]

What surprises me is that a lot of people avoid OPR because "they like the lore of 40k better"...like...what? I play 40k with my 7 armies, using the OPR Rules because they're just better and quicker. The units are overall the same, just with different names and you can exchange the names in their (free) army list builder. I couldn't care less about any lore OPR has, it is still 40k for me.

[@bonkstrum9555]

I love the complex8ty of 40k but my friends justv want to role dice. And iv grown to love opr. Our group playes once every month and we always order out. I love this more than a tournament feel. With fewer minis and agn9stic are group can get stuff ready faster and have multiple armie for cheap.

[@strohslights4996]

11th point. How does each company work with others? Warhammer uses constant copywrite strikes bullying small publishers that can't defend themselves and sue small companies that don't bend to the yoke. Onepagerules embraces their competitors and welcomes them to the fold enabling them to make their own rules and be published within their app. Point OPR.

[@cyclone8974]

Probably when you don't defend your IP you are giving up rights to it.

[@ralphhathaway-coley5460]

@@cyclone8974 ......... except, as was proven in court, GW does not hold an exclusive IP, and OPR's 'business model' is all about working with others and not having an exclusive IP.

[@cyclone8974]

@@ralphhathaway-coley5460 Whatever that means. So anyone can just copy whatever? Why have copyrights then?

[@ralphhathaway-coley5460]

@@cyclone8974 No, You can only copyright a unique item, so as elves; space marines; orcs etc. were pre-existing before GW they could not 'copyright' the name or general look.

[@cyclone8974]

@@ralphhathaway-coley5460 Which is why they renamed everything and they are unique to GW

[@lamMeTV]

Worth mentioning that One Page Rules is deleting any old version unlike GW

[@toastle8005]

I get the feeling that GW would if it could, but it is a genuine criticism regardless

[@milanstehlik5969]

I have bought OPR worldbook, and while I didn't expect much, it was still disapointing. While there are some interesting ideas in there, and I approciate the new art inside, writing itself is pretty subpar, and there are no themes that would get me hyped up.

[@WarbossFitz]

The world book vaguely set the stage for the Sirius sector. As a setting it has its merits, a little more star trek than I was expecting but the grimdark is there if you look for it. It's another "give it time" situation.

[@milanstehlik5969]

@@WarbossFitz more like "give writer some writing classes and actual themes to work with". I like OPR system, I have bought several ppl to wargaming because of it, but because of it I am also aware of things it does poorly. And this book was one of them . I hope worldbuilding gets better, but as of now, I cannot recommend anyone else to buy that book.

[@sf356]

After working for Wizards of the Coast (Hasbro) and watching the executives dig the graves of Magic and DnD, I am forever grateful for OPR and community-focused gaming models.

[@brutalchaos92]

"what do you think of the current state of Warhammer?" "Im from 3rd edition and I say kill'em all! (In OPR)"

[@Gaunt877]

OPR is a ton of fun. I have so many close games now, where in 40k it was blow out after blow out.

[@joshua_lee732]

I've never played under the 40k rules. So I can't comment on the rules. But OPR allowing me to use my Lego Bionicles as Titans got me into the hobby.

[@matiasyannuzzi9655]

Another point in favor of OPR (or rather, against GW): model rotation. Thanks to OPR, my Libby Dread can keep kicking asses.

[@Fat-Gnome]

I feel that OPR is more fun to play. The rules are streamlined, so only two rolls (one from each player) are needed to hit, instead of WH's three. Many other aspects are also simpler, sensible, and straightforward. Don't get me wrong, I love rolling dice, but having to succeed a ballistics check, then an accuracy test, then a defense roll seems a bit excessive and cumbersome. OPR is easier to learn and teach (and understand why a mechanic works the way it does).

[@WarbossFitz]

I'm leaving your other comment unlocked for now so I can find it when I get home to give the list of OPR creators

[@DominatorLegend]

I still haven't tried OPR, instead just went back to 4th Edition with some homebrew rules. That said, it's baffling there are people who say 40K is "the best it's ever been". 10th Edition is absolute trash- boring, heavily streamlined and sanitized for the worse. I swear at this point it's just some sort of buyer's remorse.

[@anthonyskrzypczak9437]

Brand new player here, only know 10e. Actually having a blast, and when I look at OPR and printing my own minis, it's way way harder to understand how to put together an army, what's the meta, or get sculpts that are super cool (maybe we should be using the official patron stuff idk). I know someone who is really experienced in this stuff would have no problem, but accessibility is king to me, and I don't know anything else. I can pay the price of an MTG deck to get a full army, and every sculpt I pick up is super nice. Taking my entire turn at once also makes the strategy simple enough to play, we tried kill team's ugoigo and it was just too much to handle. The price is high, but I come from magic the gathering, and if I count painting and assembling, I'm getting more value per dollar here. Plus the meta rotates slower. Idk keep looking at OPR and I'm sure it's the better system, but its way less easy to jump into. WH10e is built to appeal to me, and I can say it works.

[@YeAuldGrump]

I have taught OPR to twelve year old players - something that I would not want to attempt with the current rules for 40K. (But did do for 3rd edition 40K, back in the day.) Being able to act and react in a rapid succession makes OPR a lot more approachable to novice players. I also very recently introduce my non-gaming Stepfather-in-Law to the game. I was expecting him to grab Dwarf Guilds, nut he opted for Saurian Starhosts.

[@anthonyskrzypczak9437]

@Manlio.Cipullo that's a fair point about different armies. Right now I'm playing almost exclusively against one person, orks vs necrons, and after the first few learning games we both know all the rules of each players specific models. It might be a lot rougher if we didn't just play against each other.

[@eldergeeks7301]

19:20 BattleTech is the only one that rivals it.

[@revylokesh1783]

Used to play WFB (4th to 6th edition) back in the day. Then life happened, interests changed. Now, 20+ years later I made the jump and got a resin printer and I'm feeling like a kid again! Who needs GW when you have OPR.

[@Lakefront_Khan]

I actually disagree on the subscription. What if you don't have a 3d printer? You lose 70%-80% of the value

[@elneeth]

You get access to 2d paper models of minis and terrain so you can print and play with a normal printer.

[@agent_dex8996]

They do have a cheaper subscription for people without 3d printers. You get files for printing paper models which the art looks pretty darn cool. You get the rules as well and I think (could be wrong on this point) you get a discount on their physical models store. There are also businesses on the internet that will 3d print for you for a decent price.

[@bonkstrum9555]

​@agent_dex8996 I have the cheaper one for the advanced rules. And I don't mind paying 5$ a month to support a product I actually play

[@Lakefront_Khan]

@agent_dex8996 OK, but does that beat receiving very decent to good shows, physical minis, and books? Plus, things like the old WD backlogs.

[@agent_dex8996]

I guess it's really up to what you prefer. I don't care much for the shows, that's just personal taste though. The minis are cool, just not worth it for me. I do wish opr had more in universe books though which I know they are working on. I think I answered your original question decently though, about not having a 3d printer. There are options, it's just up to people if those options are worth it. I think my biggest answer to not having a printer is you can just use the models you already have. Ya opr has their own models but it is a models analogous game. Of course, if you have gw models, you might as well play gw games.

[@CTX-lk8hf]

Love the video. Have had a 3d printer for awhile now but never printed anything but bases for my minis however after starting to get into OPR and looking a all these designers of some of the stl's out there I am amazed at the talent many of these guys have. GW's claim to the best minis in the world is nonsense at least from a design perspective.

[@thel1chking]

I literally thought you were Wargamer Fritz this entire time 😂

[@WarbossFitz]

lol I get that alot

[@saunteringspellcaster]

To me the whole "OPR is just Kirkland Warhammer" misses the mark. OPR not only has armies that Warhammer does not such as Jackals Duchies of Vinci Infected Colonies and Ratmen Clans, but the customizability of OPR allows for people to make armies for just about anything. I have seen people on the Community List make everything from Napoleonic Armies to Arrakis to Helldivers to people even making it their job to create custom armies such as what happened with Sin's Miniatures and his Catmen army or the Fae Petal Courts which is just one army. Honestly If I gave it enough time I could probably make an army of my own. Probably Bee People because I think it is neat. As far as lore stuff is concerned it is true that characters like Caiphas Cain Gotrek and Felix Thanquol Trazyn and even fan characters like TTS Emperor are more famous but as you pointed out they have been writing for almost forty years with a team of professional writers. I think people could make their own lore and that it could wind up being famous or at least appreciated as well. To me though the real selling point of OPR is that it is not only incredibly accessible but that it is built for people who like games. I do not feel like I am being treated as just a source of income. I feel like a customer and someone who could make my own fun with the game. The craziest thing is I haven't even played an actual game yet and just watching you play I can see that anyone can come to understand this game which to me is a good sign.

[@Rakaziel]

Flying and Poison across the board, a unit that gives out honey for Regeneration and maybe a Queen that spawns more warriors? - Sign me up!

[@saunteringspellcaster]

@@Rakaziel You actually are very close to what I made. Flying across the board and a Queen that spawn warriors are things I made for it.

[@KristovMars]

Damn, glad it's not just me. I've been describing James Workshop as my abusive ex for years now, having quit all their main-line games for nigh-on a decade now. Luckily I'm old and ugly enough to be able to buy minis from whomever and use whatever rules to play. Thanks to Uncle Atom for putting OPR in front of my eyeballs

[@billdithers6288]

I feel like certain comparable negatives to GW werent brought up that are negatives for OPR. Like poor and rapid rules updates that recently plagues OPR with the kneejerk reaction from OPA to undo the publicly released rules. These rules weren't even given a chance to breath before they got sent to advanced rules, and the entire point system changed on a dime. There are a lot of new players who got shafted by the immediate change that seemed to come from a poorly taken temperature test of the community from OPA since people just complained in his ear about, even though a lot of people like myself liked assault. Leadership is important and as such OPA seems reluctant to spearhead any real growth on the competitive side of the game. GW meanwhile has a very specific and clearly laid out "if you want to play competitively do x,y and z" while OPA is more "do what you want" which is a half solution to a question posed. Another is model availability. Not everyone has access to an affordable resin printing space. Resin printing takes a dedicated space, ventilation, and a commitment to an entirely different hobby which just isnt managable for some people. Meanwhile GW has ETB kits which a child can snap fit together without glue. I like OPR for its conveniences that fit my life style, but that just doesnt apply to everyone.

[@tomasv8732]

The rules updates is fair, but the model availability is not a complaint at all. If you don't have a space for 3d printing, you have infinite buying options from other companies and etsy, including those pushfit kits gw provides. 3D printing is the best option, but it is by far not the only option

[@WarbossFitz]

So this is going to take some nuance. First I recorded this before the switch to 3.3.1 so that's why it isn't in the video. When 3.3 came out there was a very large pushback against it in the places that OPR sees. Whole short stories of how the game has been irrevocably changed and that the rules were too complicated. So with that level of player lament that I don't think OPR has seen before the decision was made to change the main rules back and move rules to the advanced book. It wasn't for about a week that there was any positive coverage of those rules. Once the rules were changed again there was another outcry from players. This time not that the rules had been changed. The subject of the wailing was the fact that the points had changed back to what they were before the 3.3 change. Most people had not even played a game with these new rules and points but we're still upset when number go up. The phrase "lot of new players who got shafted" sounds a bit hyperbolic. What happened to the new player? Is it that the new rules got moved to the advanced rule book? Is it that the points on the army they just chose and havent played more than 2 games with changed? This isn't GW that player having their army list changed doesn't screw them. They weren't forced to buy a $100 model just for it to not work anymore. A free ruleset updated the free rules and points on models that could be paper cut outs or popcorn kernels. The rules changed for 2 weeks then changed back. The most upset I saw was because number go down and then number go back up. Now when games workshop doesn't update it changes a whole lot more than that and it cost you $60 for a new book compared to free. Point for one page rules

[@suddenlysarablog]

@@WarbossFitz Exactly this. When the change happened, it didn't "Shaft" me, it moderately annoyed me for 5 minutes because I had to adjust 30 points worth of stuff in my Robot Legions list. Then I didn't think about it again.

[@billdithers6288]

@@WarbossFitz If this was made before that then I can't hold it against you. I saw significant amount of new players on reddit and the OPR discord at the sudden change, some had printed new rulebook materials and others had created and printed armies for use for the change without any ability to get back their saved lists or armies. The army forge is currently not tuned to point costs of assault being a part of the game, so there is room for a bad feeling of wanting to use the rule. I feel when making comparison videos its best to avoid the Halo effect and give a warts and all approach to analysis. OPA does a lot right, and i'm glad he has brought this game to us, but he does have some issues and as the sole vision maker of the game they're bound to come up again.

[@toastle8005]

…then again, on that last point, OPR is a rules system, with advertised miniatures if you want or need them. OPR isn’t ‘less accessible’ because people ‘need to have a 3D printer to have the models’- just buy GW models, eBay models, or pre-printed. In contrast, GW is a model brand with a game system somewhat tacked on, at this point. You can’t play the game ‘officially’ without their models. OPR just markets itself as ‘what to play once you already have miniatures’. That first point is bang-on though, and a very valid criticism. He seems to be way too quick to change things in a fret, while way too hesitant to fix other things that should be first-priority by comparison on the grounds of ‘not wanting to change things’.

[@2stone2weave95]

Hello Warboss Fizz, as a fan of both 40k and OPR (and a fan of your battle reports) I would like to respectfully disagree with your assessment in comparing the two games. When it comes to the competitive scene, I believe that the expanded rules, meta chasing, tac ops, stratagems, and the legalese writing makes 40k a better tournament game to play, this is because by introducing a more sophisticated level of play, players are able to demonstrate their knowledge of the game (and how much money they spent that week on a meta army) to create more unique combat interactions. This has lead to particularly devoted players being able to create their own meta in tournaments by finding those interactions by pouring through countless rule books and playing the sweatiest version of warhammer, where the smallest ruling that is grey area can decide a game or become broken. And as an OPR player that is okay! OPR in my opinion is meant to be the easiest way to introduce your friends into wargaming (such as latter learning bolt action, game of thrones, or staying with OPR). If my local game store ever starts an OPR tournament I would hope that it would not be as competitively played as 40k is, as a game like OPR is a great vehicle to enjoy a beer some pretzels and meet new people who can enjoy a hobby without worrying about meta list chasers and be able to play what you want to play (within reason of course). Hence I don't think losing the competitive category would even be a bad thing for OPR, as not everyone wants to be competitive, hence why for league of legends TFT and ARAM have such a huge following and not everyone grinds ranked every day. You need the divide else you get lost in the ranked sauce and have as many people perma banned as the league community has for shit behavior and being too sweaty. Thank you for the video sir and long time fan :)

[@JerryTurner]

Great even overview. I agree on pretty much everything. I love OPR and think that they can and will have a great future. Warhammer has the one thing going for them, history. Being around a long as they have been, it is hard to knock that they have books, lore, minis, etc from generations back. With the community getting more involved with OPR, I hope that there is some sort of base lore that is provided by the OPR group that allows for people to build off of.

[@oldAzekai]

Digging the channel, Fitz. I came into 40k in 4th, and am saddened by the late-stage ‘line must go up’ mentality of the modern game. I agree with your sentiment, OPR is where it’s at.

[@martinholden6214]

Ive been thinking for a while. Why don't shops open up, that do not do GW products and use small miniature 3d print businesses to get models? Or print in house, imagine walking into a hobby shop and being able to get custom prints even(probably at similar cost to gw as its alot of work to model) I'm pretty sure given 3d printing it could be run and be way cheaper than GW. I'm pretty confident that alot of people are sick of GW and 40k (not the actuall game) but being used like a slot machine. Alot of people moan about OPR not being deep enough, solution....2 pages rules 😂 extended rules editions. Could even be 10 page rules etc

[@mjolasgard2533]

Im not sure the point on Lore is right, Mr Warboss. Your point seems like 'Warhammer has a lot of lore. It has built up that lore by making it specific.' I'm not sure this is a strength. The real strength of the WH40K Lore used to be that you could play whatever you wanted really - evil pirate space marines fighting for the Emperor? Sure. But with the new focus on lore (and more books they can sell you), the galaxy shrunk to focus on a few powerful individuals. Now, the game is about them. OPR GDF has that old-school feel where the universe is vast, where there aren't specific individuals who fill up that space and allow players to create their own narratives. Idk, that's my opinion. TL;DR - its not about the amount of lore, its about 'just the right amount' of lore. Anyways. Great channel! Thanks muchly!

[@laszlovarga6953]

Which part of the lore stops you from making a renegade pirate chapter?

[@mjolasgard2533]

@@laszlovarga6953 Oh that wasn't my point. My point is that GW's lore is moving away from 'a vast galaxy of infinite possibility' and into the realm of 'the events of the galaxy revolve around these individuals'. They're making their lore as brandable and controllable as possible. In short, it used to be vast but now it feels much more closed in. Not a criticism, just an observation.

[@toastle8005]

Completely agree. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not against specificity in the lore, but I feel the imagination and push for creativity in building your own army has been strangled.

[@darthcthulhu762]

Love the video! Just stumbled across it, I completely agree. I love WH for the lore and the models. I love OPR for the gameplay and simplicity.

[@Bidimus1]

6th to 7th is what made me quit. Stated in 3rd Have 2x Space Marine, 1 X guard. 1x guard Armored co. 1x Inq. never to see a new set of 40k rules. Star Wars has as much FLUFF but D- is killing it.

[@acidnine3692]

As a product i love OPR, but it doesnt scratch the itch of pre 8th ed / Horus Heresy for me. I miss things like chapter tactics, armor value, vehicle damage tables and WS/BS differences

[@WarbossFitz]

that is true it doesn't have that feel. I wish it did. Nothing hits like 4th edition.

[@YeAuldGrump]

For me, that is 3rd edition. But nothing, nothing! comes close to Mordheim. Still my favorite miniatures game.

[@dariostabletopminatures]

10:55 ALTERNATING ACTIVATION! BOY....MAYBE its time to leave the Sinking SHIP...and to promote new stuff --- to have a REVOLUTION!

[@N4CHobby]

Excellent video! For me best option is playing one-page rules with GW minis that I really like, but I'm happy to play with other minis thanks to the minis agnostic philosophy of OPR

[@DrZalmat]

Did i understand it right with the Codexes? Some faction players don't have rules for their armies until the edition is almost obsolete? How are they playing until then? Old rules? Guessed rules?

[@nathansmith5738]

so... it depends. for example in 9th edition, if you didn't have a new codex you were expected to use the 8th edition codex. the rules were designed to be compatible enough to be able to do that. 10th edition... all the rules were thrown out. so to play your codexless army, GW gave a free 'index' filled with just enough rules to get you by... until you got the codex and they yoink the index away to force you to buy the codex. Ironically 'Index Hammer' (the period of when no one has a codex so everyone has to rely on an index) is probably the most accessible the game gets.

[@libraveggie4451]

I'd love to give OPR a go with another player (been consigned to solo play) But main issue i run into is that nobody will freaking try it! Stores i go to around here are populated by die hard fans, ancient veterans, and a few uh.... problematic new players. (One wore an entire damn Afrika Korps Wehrmacht uniform to his first game...) Not many stores around here but yeah. Thats a slight issue to get through to "willingness to try" i suppose.

[@CantusTropus]

There's always Tabletop Simulator, if you're up for it. Healthy community for that on Discord.

[@uwesca6263]

I think some points are a bit stretched(?) Like the rules. Warhammer has free starter rules andyou have an index for every faction. Sure those who have a codex had them removed but it aint hard to find them in the net. Then the miniatures. You compare one group that has special made minis for sale vs one that doesnt. And then coming to the conclusion that the one company without minis has better minis because you can use whatever you want when playing with friends while the other one is worse because you cant use other minis at the official store. Which btw differs from store owner to store owner. Similar for availability. You forgot to mention that there are 3rd party sellers for gw stuff. And (at least my experience) i never had an issue with models flat out not available. i could by any box i wanted. This might differ in your local area. For the goodies that the opr patreon gives to you: i am sure its overall still slightly better than warhammer+ but without an 3d printer the deal is quite a bit worse than advertised. And at last game duration: How big is a 40k game and how big is a opr game? Like how many models can i expect? And are there different game sizes? Would be interesting to know to better jnderstand a comparisson. And dont forget that we basicly have 4 game sizes for 40k so dont compare the ones maximum with the others minimum to make a point. A more nuanced view on it would be interesting. Also what interests me is the longevity. How often can i play till its starts to feel dull. How exciting are new games? You made some solid points about the tournamend fokused 40k community and other things. I just wanted to mention these points.

[@alanjackson1568]

Fair point with the models, you can use whatever you want to play 40k. Though, the point stands that there are much better looking models out there, than what GW sells. One Page Rules matches need at least 50% more points to have the same number of models on the board. OPR is faster because it get's rid of the toughness vs strength dice roll, and OPR does not have random damage weapons. Also, onepage rules does not have that faction complexity which turns 40k into a game where new players have to stare at their rulebooks for half, (at least) of their turn. I have no insight into longevity yet, but, with a more casual game it should be easy to invite more players, and come up with rules for 2v2 etc. If you want something more complex, and has more fleshed out/well defined rules, you might want to give Warsurge a look. Warsurge already has recommended rules for games with more than 2 players, and they give recommendations for different ways to alter the game to keep it fresh.

[@deckrect]

One page rules is basically Warhammer 40k second edition. It is far more simple, for sure. But it doesn't add much to any gaming experience. After playing Kill Team and Combat Patrol, - this one, supposedly indicated for beginners, I noticed the most problematic problem about Warhammer 40k, as rules set, along the years, is the fact it is hugely focused on people who already have most of the rules embedded into the brain. So, you kind of need adding layers and layers to keep, dimension, flavor and- the most important fot the current community- freshness, as the new players demands regular novelty. I recommend people who wants a simple Warhammer 40k, take a look specifically at second edition.

[@WarbossFitz]

the rules changes became a problem for veteran players too. I would be playing a game and my mind would slip pulling a rule from older editions.

[@PerfectionHunter]

A Tier-List sure would be nice

[@WarbossFitz]

its kinda coming. Im going to do a star chart and overlap them with allies to show some powerfull things you can do with the armies. There will still be few on either end of the spectrum though.

[@hughmac7423]

I've been into collecting and painting models since the 1990's, I started with Epic, moved onto Warhammer 40K, then got frustrated with the rule changes in 2010, and stopped with Games Workshop. I agree with everything you are saying, but I'm a sucker and got pulled back into 40K with Kill Team in 2022 and then 9th Edition, I'm dabbling with 10th, but being careful on what I spend, as I have a massive collection from the 1990's to 2000's, Orks, Space Marines, Dark Eldar, Chaos and Tyranids, and I can still use half of these. I have been a backer of OPR for a couple of years, collecting STL's for a future 3D printing adventure. In between I got into CMON Zombicide Black Plague, Massive Darkness 1 and 2, Zombicide Invader, and Cyberpunk, now I have too many models to paint, delaying my 3D printing plans. Not a bad problem to have :)

[@Tehstampede]

I remember having a discussion with a competitive player on another YT video where he made the claim that nobody wanted a balanced game more than competitive players. I agreed and pointed out that this is the root problem; competitive players want a balanced game with all other considerations secondary. 10ed is overtuned, greywashed boring garbage. It's not fun to play unless you want to be competitive, in which case it's boring but functional. I want a fun game, and that means that there will be some unbalanced rules or factions. I would not be surprised if 11ed ended up being everything hits on 4+, wounds on 4+, and saves on 4+.

[@Direwolf1771]

At that point they should just play chess. It’s what they really want, apparently.

[@Fat-Gnome]

Could you provide a list of fellow OPR content creators?

[@MrBlackgobbo]

OPR was a safeguard for my miniatures. I was thinking in selling all of them because I'm fed up of GW lies and its expensive and constantly changing rules. 9th edition started with what it seemed to be best price unit boxes; a couple of months later, they started doing again the same expensive unit boxes with the first codex. This edition, they promised at least a free detachment for every faction and the combat patrol for playing in a more simple and cheaper way... They are erasing each free detachment when its codex is launched, they haven't launched anything new for combat patrol, just downgrading the one's with most value (sisters of battle, Genestealer Cult...), etc. Every edition, same lies and worst deal for its clients. Possibly I will keep buying second hand GW miniatures, but without the feeling that I need three units of all for playing properly

[@centristcontrarian3344]

This is a good video. I like the balanced, fairly neutral angle. I like GW's miniatures, but damn, their rules hurt to keep up with.

[@kameronredford7545]

ACTuallY! 40k has the bigger competitive scene. So that means it's superior by every metric. 10 out of 10 review would watch again. Jokes aside, enjoyed the analysis.

[@WarbossFitz]

Bro! The new rules came out and there is a weird interaction that lets my units teleport anywhere on the board and get a 2+3++4+++ when they do it. Then shoot with dev,shattering,sustained, big pp shots because the comma is in the wrong place. I know it is going to be FAQed in 3 months but the TO is my friend who I have brow beat into allowing it because of RAW. Now I just need to buy $300 of models and dab 3 colors on them to get them on the table fast to own noobs. Fast forward 2 weeks. Awww man gw released a faq early. They destroyed my army. It's all their fault.

[@kameronredford7545]

@@WarbossFitz Bruh, the 40k younger me felt that. XD

[@sleeplessknight99]

I'm sure OPR is great, a lot of fun, balanced, and isn't toxic and predatory in their business practices. But players will never have the street cred potential that modern kids want.

[@CantusTropus]

Eh, whatever. It's a better game and system, and that's what matters to me. Sure, it'd be nice to get new players, but getting too mainstream is a very mixed blessing, at the best of times. Often it leads to the downfall of a niche hobby.

[@WarbossFitz]

I'm not sure what you mean by this. So modern kids want what exactly? Street cred from a tourney win? The game has street cred?

[@sleeplessknight99]

@@WarbossFitz they want views and internet likes, acknowledgement and praise from complete strangers, having their name on a national ranking system, playing in a tournament wearing a jacket covered in sponsorship logos, KZbin influencers talking about their tournament winning army lists. Even if they're nowhere near actually achieving it, the mere possibility of that happening is much more likely with a game that has massive corporate backing and a larger fanbase. Y'know, street cred.

[@techpriestalex8730]

@@sleeplessknight99 I am one of those modern kids (genZ) and I have no idea what your talking about. games being some esport like kills them.

[@TheAstroRain]

Good video. But, Strategem critique is outdated for about a year. 10 edition let you have 18 shared stratagems and you pick one table with 6 army specific. Yes, its still more, but not as bad as before))))

[@WarbossFitz]

I stopped in 9th edition and when I saw that the space marines had 56 stratgems across their chapters and detachments my eyes bugged out. So i was wrong about that, kinda.

[@hehmda672]

Just one question: on a OPR roster is built based on points cost or in other way ?

[@WarbossFitz]

the army lists are built on points. Points that are granular so you pay for equipment like 40k armies used to be. The army builder app is free and you can check it out on the onepagerules website.

[@phillipbritton3836]

I've played both and enjoy both. I feel like one page rules can be biased with their community balanced armies. One page rules was fast, enjoyable but didn't feel like it had much character to it. 40k is definitely expensive and convoluted but I feel more role-playing in 40k

[@laszlovarga6953]

Since this is the first time commenting under your video: I love you channel and love your videos, hope you'll keep it up for a long time! But I don't think you've managed to be as fair and objective as you wanted to be, and I felt that you still owe GW a grudge, overexxagerating negatives of WH, being biased towards OPR or unintentionally omitting details that would favour GW. -You don't need to buy the core book for the rules. The whole rules section is available on the Warhammer Community website for free. -The length and the understandability of the rules are not as bad as you make them out to be. If we took out all the art, the empty spaces diagrams, example pictures, the redundant summaries, I'm pretty sure it could be condensed down to 30 ish pages, like the Advance rulebooks. Also, the language isn't that big of a deal either, maybe a tiny bit more boring than the OPR rulebooks. -You compare the WH Core rules to the GF Core rules which, while their names are the same, is like comparing apples to oranges. The WH equivalent would be the Quick Start Guide, which is 3 pages long and containts about the same amount of information. The WH Core rules is more similar to the Advanced rulebooks of OPR. -About model agnosticism: now, maybe it's just me being a newbie, but I don't understand how WH or any other tabletop or boardgame isn't model agnostic. The only thing that is fixed is the base diameter and maybe the model dimensions. If you play at home with a friend you can use whatever you want, if the local gaming store/gameclub allows it you can use whatever you agree with your opponent and from what I've heard tournaments sometimes allow using proxies. The only place where you can't use them for sure are official GW shops, but I wouldn't count it as a negative, since OPR has no equivalent to that. It's also worth considering that the number of stores where people play OPR games might be less than the stores that allow 3D printed armies, so OPR is even less accessible than Warhammer. -With 10th edition, you don't neccessarily need to buy the army codices. You can download the indexes of each army, which include a lot of units and their special rules, plus one detatchment and its rules. Of course these become outdated once the codices come out, but again, if you play with friends or you can agree with your gaming partner, you can use the indexes instead. Also, as of right now only 8 out of 27 codices were released, so more than a dozen armies still use these rules. -Subscriptions: WH+ has dozens of painting tutorials, dozens of batreps and hundreds of magazines. OPR has STL files which are irrelevant to those without a 3D printer (a very big chunk of the population), 2D miniatures (which like before, will probably be free after release), advanced rules (which you only need to get once, after that it's irrelevant), mission rules, armyforge access, beta access and a discount. Again, it's oranges to apples and, unless you have a 3D printer, those apples are very sour. -About game feel: You have two sources for rules, the core rules and the datacards with the army specific rules. The former is condensed into 3 pages, and the latter is neccessary anyway for the stats. The stratagems are a lot, but they are limited to 17 (11 core + 6 army specific), and you can always ask your partner to show and explain them. You can also agree to not use them at all. When it comes to game length, I think it's worth pointing out that the average army of GF is around half the size of a WH army. Making the number of units roughly the same would probably narrow the time gap. (Plus there is the Combat Patrol format - with free core and army rules - which probably falls between GF and GFF in scale.) One might also say that the armies of OPR are very basic and there is no identity or character to them, or at least it's less than the GW counterparts. My judgement on this might be off (especially the last one), because I haven't played a single game of either systems and only watched batreps, but it feels like you slapped your hands together and said OPR is better because you think it's better. Sooo yeah, I think the final score should be 7 to 8, both scoring 1-1 point at the topics I've covered.

[@johnbrennan9617]

I'm probably going to be in the minority here, but I don't necessarily agree with the premise of this video. I'm a strong believer in comparison being the thief of joy. When I own two board games like Risk, or Catan, I don't compare them against each other. I view them as separate and different games that aim to provide fun and amusement in their own ways. I can gladly sit down and play a game of One Page Rules with some friends when we've got an hour or two, and it can be really fun. Or I might have more time and can spend an evening playing Warhammer with those same friends. OPR to me is a really great introductory game into wargaming, and is cheap, affordable and easy to get into. Warhammer then becomes the next stage up where you want to play more tactical and nuanced games. Both are very good for what they deliver.

[@toastle8005]

…this would be a good argument, if modern 40k was nuanced or tactical. If we still lived in a game of armour-facings, flanking and comparative-weaponskill combat, I might agree with you. But in current 40k, movement is one of the last few tactical ‘war game’ things in it, and a lot of our local veterans of 30 years are growing sick of the lack of skill and expressive fluff/crunch rules. I’d honestly have to say that with alternating activations, OPR has a different layer of depth that modern 40k doesn’t touch, despite its simplicity. With how hampered 10th edition tactics are… Nowadays, the simple game has depth and skill expression, and the huge complex game has the nuance and depth of a puddle. A lot of our veterans are heading back to 3rd, 4th and narrative games of 2nd.

[@karlwolfe614]

I have no axe to grind whatsoever. Never played Warhammer or WH40K either. However I have played Traveller and AD&D back in the 80s and 90s and Star Wars d20 more recently. Looking to get back into wargaming in general and miniatures gaming too. Looked at the Warhammer stores and what you get and prices and watched some games and for me the logic of how it played just said 'No' to me. A tank getting cut to pieces by men in armour with chainsaws. Sorry, but I have a problem with that. Especially that there was no opportunity fire or any form of retaliation from a vehicle bristling with guns that could have just driven forward and crushed them or at least dented their nice armour. I thought that if I am going to spend a small fortune on overpriced miniatures then at least I will get Star Wars Legion as I can use them with my old Star Wars D20 RPG and they slot right in. They will never grow old because I will always find a use for them. Otherwise, I am looking at WW2 stuff, there is a huge amount of affordable minis out there, infantry, tanks etc and plenty of options for rules systems that work well, you just amend the scale to fit the minis. Then I found OPR. It is free. I mean FOC, no cost, just download the rules and make up an army for whatever era you want. You can adapt the rules to fit any minis you have, so you can have large battles, skirmish, starships even fantasy. Everything. What is not to love about this? I do agree with you, between GW and OPR there is a clear winner and when it comes to games clubs you can take some laminated copies of the rules with you to pass around the table and then have at it, with whatever you have got. Sorry about the length of this, but I have really been shopping around a LOT recently so this is all fresh in my head.

[@chadnuttall9117]

Well I appreciate the comparison on a major point for games workshop that you neglected is how likely a new player is to find an existing community near their home supporting one-page rules or Warhammer 40,000. This is one of the most important things to mention because no one wants to play by themselves. I would venture to guess that the majority of one-page rules players started by playing Warhammer 40,000 which means most communities will support Warhammer before one page rules. While many of the aspects that you mentioned about one page, rules are very favorable, especially for me the rules that are not changing nearly so often it can be difficult to find games against anyone let alone people who have never played a tabletop war game before.

[@alanjackson1568]

Bit of an old post, but I still want to give an opinion here. OnePageRules is easy enough to play, that you could play with people who have never done tabletop wargaming before. And with multicolor plastic 3d printers, the only real barrier to entry (assembly/painting) does not have to be a problem, theoretically. If cost is not an issue, people might be able to "paint" their own models on a computer program, and order from someone who has a multicolor resin printer soon.

[@stephenphilp8222]

I totally agree. I am at core a historical wargamer and the difference between GW and every other wargames company out there has always been significant. I also played 40k (from 3rd to 5th) and WH Fantasy until GW killed it, although I never bought figures direct from GW. I used to buy Citadel historicals back in the 80s which were really nice figures compared to their SciFi stuff (GW-Spacefarers) at 3 times the price and nowhere near as nice. Now if you compare GW plastic to Victrix historicals for example the difference in quality is just the price. You get 60 excellent quality multipart figures for 32 quid compared to 12 figures for 37 quid from GW (or one character figure if you're lucky). Incidentally, GW might be a British company but they're not the only one, there are a lot of good British wargames manufacturers out there - none of which are 'pay to win corporate monsters' like GW, who visualise their customers as nothing more than a pound sign (or dollar sign in your case). They are also not the biggest manufacturer of wargames models by volume. They might have the biggest IP boosted by their product diversity but there are other wargames manufacturers that sell more figures than GW worldwide. Good luck to OPR and their democratisation of the SciFi and Fantasy side of the hobby. Long may it continue. The only down side is that as a 3D printing enthusiast my armies have begun to own more floor space than I do in my house... I'm sure you can relate WB Fitz! By the way - you're a machine. The rate at which you produce your stuff is not human.

[@PMMagro]

I work in the music industry. Gaming have many things in common. One is the hype-business-model. Also there is the missconception that it is fun and many pay to do it so it should never be any ...party that is in it for the money. We mix up personal, often childhood, gaming experiences with a public company on the stock exchange. Games Workshop is big coropration with shareholders and profit margins to work with. The video game industry with patches, micro transactions and cosntant changes is teh game industry norm hence GW and Dungeons & dragons etc get more like this. I love GW models and some of the lore too. But just use the models that are good and use rules etc from others? I do and OPR is fun :)

[@joshuawilson8804]

I've only played Warhammer Fantasy ones and I hated it. I was told it was balanced me having two units of elves that could fight and shoot while my friend had the empire which had muskets pikeman and a freaking cannon. It did not feel fair. I've actually been playing a lot of OPR with people who've never played war games before and we can get it done so quickly that they are already designing their next army.

[@Ironfrenzy217]

This was the "chill" version? Not that I disagree with your points.

[@WarbossFitz]

it took me a few drafts. There were even parts of this that I cut out of the final edit because they were shots across the bow at certain elements of the 40k hobby.

[@Rikalonius]

I have been doing tabletop since I was about 16, I'm in my 50s. Nobody, and I mean nobody holds a candle to GW for most convoluted system. I think I really got into it in 8th edition but time and money have only served to make GW worse than they've ever been. As you said, no formula for points (which to me is the worst kind of game building), constant changes to make gaming as a service, and the primary concern being to keep whales whaling. I found out about OPR about a year ago, and I liked it, but didn't really get into it. I didn't play WH40k because of the cost prohibition anyway, but I'm revisiting. I think more 40k players need to break with the abusive X, as you aptly described, and put their time and money to better use with an indy company. We all are too eager to play the industry leader because they are the industry leader, and their is a stigma against any lesser competitor, but OPR Grimdark future, is, in my opinion, better than WH40k.

[@alanjackson1568]

I used to have no problem with publicly traded companies. Now that it comes attached with buzzwords and propaganda wherever the large investment firms go, while they vote in shareholder meetings with the money that is not even theirs, (pension/401k etc.) I vastly, vastly prefer private companies.

[@TaylorXia-o3c]

Have you played 10th ed of WH40k? Space marines do not have 56 strategems, they have 6 per detachment - think of it like your chapter or subclass - that you play so you only need to care about those 6. If you consider your opponent's stratagems thats 12. That's nowhere near as many as you describe.

[@WarbossFitz]

looking at wahapedia there are 8 different detachments for space marines, that dosent include the chapter specific ones. each of those has 6 stratagems. so that is 48 stratagems the marine player can use. then there are 4 enhancements for 7 of those detachments for another 28 things that a marine player can pull out. Then each marine chapter suppliment that releases has just as many options. 10th started simple but GW being GW cant leave it simple and it will only get worse as time goes on. Until 11th edition so they can charge you for new rules and do the same thing all over again.

[@TaylorXia-o3c]

@@WarbossFitz I'm not sure whether you just aren't aware of how Warhammer 40k is played or you are intentionally ignoring facts for the sake of your argument, but you pick a detachment when you make your list. If you go to a local tournament for example you are locked into that detachment for the duration of that event. You don't need to know what ALL the detachments do, ALL the enhancements, and ALL the other stratagems to pilot your list, you literally just need to know the 6 associated with your specific detachment. I have friends who literally only play the Raven Guard detachment or the Imperial Fist detachment when they play SM; they don't need to give a shit what the Salamander detachment rule or stratagems are, and I don't think if I asked them right now they would even know. Now, does knowing all those options help you better make choices for building your list and potentially making changes? Yes, of course, but nobody is forcing you to learn all 48 stratagems and 8 detachment rules right from the start. If you're going up against a SM player you also don't need to know all "48 possible stratagems the marine player can use" and "28 enhancements that marine player can pull out", because, guess what, the game is simplified and segmented into detachments so when you know what detachment they're playing you can immediately narrow down the number of enhancements they can use to 4 and the stratagems down to 6; you literally eliminate 42 stratagems and 24 enhancements out of the picture before the game even starts. For the remainder, you can just ask your opponent what their army is, and they'll tell you what their core detachment rule does, what enhancements they have, and specifically what stratagems are important to them. You obviously have an agenda making this video so I'll just leave you to it after this just couldn't let such asinine logic go uncommented on.

[@WarbossFitz]

@@TaylorXia-o3c so what your saying is that it is on me as an opponent to have their detachment rules out constantly so I can cross check it to make sure that they are using only the 6 out of the half a hundred stratagems they might have "accidentally" remembered. Along with making sure the enhancements they use are of the same detachment. On an app that I had to pay $60 for the privilege to see the rules on. Because the pirate sites don't update immediately and could be wrong. Heck even the app could be wrong. What if your opponent only has a codex and not the app? Are the rules in there right or were they changed in a day 1 eratta? All while standing there trying to keep my mind busy while my opponent takes a half hour plus for their turn just to mumble the name of the stratagem and immediately roll dice on it. I don't think you realize that it is the whole package that is the problem. It's the stratagems, the structure of the game, the inaccessibility of rules, the incentive of playing by gatcha tactics. If you don't see the problem then I guess I'm happy for you and I encourage you to keep paying hundreds of dollars for books that are invalidated when they release, just to stare at a table for half of a 3 hour game.

[@mr78K]

Fitz I'm starting to worry GW might order a hit on you soon! By the way is "Fitz" name from the Royal assassin's Robin Hobb books?

[@whichDude]

Started in late 9th. Have witnessed 3 price hikes so far. I knew the hobby was expensive, but $40 for a single small character is absolutely garbage. New rules every 3 years also screws over armies that have bad rules. Admech got their codex early 10th, but they have been absolute garbage the entire edition. Will probably only get decent right as rules get changed

[@BlUsKrEEm]

My main problem with One Page Rules is the name. It is a pretty awful name, IMO. That's about it. Pretty much everything else is excellent. I really dig the starter aets dor Grim Dark Future and Fantasy too. They are really well put together and they give a great taste for the gane worh obvious places to grow your interests if you like the experience. They dont get enough credit for that. I wish they could get them physically produced for shops, but as a 3d printed digital starter they are near perfect. The website is better than Warhammer, too.

[@YeAuldGrump]

Better than the original name, back when it was a fan work - One Page 40K. But it was one of the players remembering it under that name that brought us into OPR, so I'm not complaining (much).

[@Nomad6763]

As much as I like GDF it is not the better competitive game simply because of low adoption. If I was interested in playing lots of games against different and skilled opponents I would choose 40k unless I wanted to organize a league myself. My biggest issue with 40k these days is it feels like there's less and less room for your own narratives. Not only has the lore become far more "complete" but in the actual games themselves I don't have the bandwidth to introduce any special scenario rules. The game is already pushing the limits of what I can remember even when I've been playing a lot.

[@madrobot711]

sold!!! thanks for the info.

[@YanniCooper]

One point in favor of Warhammer is it is likely easier to find a game at your FLGS - not sure that's enough to tip the scales

[@techpriestalex8730]

I think one think you forgot to say was the easy of painting OPR minis vs GWs. cause lately GWs minis are bloated with too much details that its annoying to paint. OPRs mini are simple and easy to paint.

[@nurglerider781]

I'm not going to defend GW, they deserve, hell they ASKED for, the hate they get. There is a ton of great stuff about OPR, not the least of which is a business that isn't run by bloodthirsty vampires. But I will say that the rules leave a lot to be desired for me. I do still play it occasionally but it lacks the crunch that I want. Having said that I have been and will continue to be a tier 2 subscriber to OPR. And certainly, any person new to the hobby should be pointed to OPR and NOT Warhammer.

[@WarbossFitz]

the rules are on the simple side but you can add anything you want to it. Being less of a time sink the group I play with throw in all kinds of rules and play games just to see how it would work. And absolutely I would steer a new wargamer to opr over 40k, just for the mental load alone. Get them in the door then they can move to different systems that they find interesting.

[@Tugar-747]

Regarding depth of lore Id say battletech is probably second. Tex from Bpl jave very nice lore videos id say on par with Lutein and Baldemort imo.

[@WarbossFitz]

I do love battletech as a game. I was young when I got into and then out of it and I bounced off the lore hard, mostly because I was 16-20 at the time. In the last few weeks I have been getting recommended b-tech lore videos and have been listening to them while I paint. I didn't know how in depth it was and can say you are absolutely correct.

[@alphanerdgames9417]

Aww man! I didn’t make the cut on your list of creators.😭

[@WarbossFitz]

sorry, I didnt know about your channel before but now I am subbed and I cant wait to see what you do with OPR!

[@alphanerdgames9417]

@@WarbossFitz I’m going to blame the losers who run the algorithm.

[@toastle8005]

I was about to say ‘well screw you, I’m gonna go and subscribe to you anyway how do you like that’, only to click on your channel and found out I was subscribed already 🤣 something on your channel must have been good

[@alphanerdgames9417]

@@toastle8005 🙃

[@CantusTropus]

@@alphanerdgames9417 Sadly, I don't think there's ANYONE running the algorithm. Odds are nobody at KZbin actually understands how that thing actually works anymore.

[@buttemountain]

Just to be clear cuz I’ve been confused, with OPR $10 patreon tier, they’re sending you 2 armies of STL’s not physical miniatures right?

[@WarbossFitz]

yes they are sending the stls to print parts of 2 different armies. They put out about 3 units for each army every month so to get the whole army takes around 6 months and they are staggered. Like it was dwarf guilds and vampiric undead. Then vampiric undead and high elf fleets. now this month they started a new fantasy army and its high elf fleets and shadow stalkers for fantasy.

[@buttemountain]

@@WarbossFitz sweet, I don’t have a 3d printer but that’s a pretty big incentive to get one. Besides there’s a loooot of cool Orc minis out there I’d like to get my hands on lol

[@dakotawharton]

They do bundle sets to. If you aren't subscribed to the patreon it costs about as much as a 40k battleforce to get all the STLs for an army. The patron gets you a pretty good discount.

[@SquareTableUnion]

Kirkland 40K lol. Good video buddy.

[@roshee5573]

Depth of lore in print ? I’d say Battletech is just as good as 40K

[@thrrax]

So basically One Page Rules... rules.

[@supernonfriendo]

Plagiarists deserve no respect

[@BewilderedDuck-e5l]

You can’t copyright a games system, plus you should see where GW got most if their ideas from….

[@kellinbray5347]

Opr is the best happy to find something that isn’t predatory

[@suddenlysarablog]

Amazing what happens when the people writing the rules aren't also the same people selling you the models that use those rules!

[@briancripps496]

Paused the video at this point (~8 minutes) and wanted to comment a couple things before I continued: 1) GW didn't cancel a bunch of content creators with cease and desists. To my knowledge, actually there weren't any actual C&Ds sent out or, if so, maybe one or two. And before you comment, Text-to-Speech wasn't canceled due to a C&D. The creator stopped because he was AFRAID HE'D GET ONE and didn't want to deal with the constant fear of that hanging over his head. None was ever sent. And while that does still sound bad, it was built up by the fans, themselves, passing this false rumour around, like you just did. All the content creators stopped because, instead of GW's lawyers slapping them on the wrist, GW instead went "Hey, wanna work for us, instead?" and they, almost all, said "Yes" because steady job with steady pay is better than nothing. Then there was that one guy that wanted to, but then got bullied so fucking hard he declined it and ran away from the internet, because anonymous online fans are fucking monsters. 2) I see a lot of negativity in these comments as I browsed them (to make sure my above comment wasn't made by someone else yet). It reminds me a LOT of the great 7th Ed exodus into Warmachine/Hordes. As someone that didn't leave then, I was on the other side of the fence of that one, and it was toxic as fuck. I am seeing the same thing here but now I'm on this side, and it's worse, 'cause the stench is coming from my yard. A bunch of you are acting very much like you're toxic as fuck, and I strongly caution you to stop and reflect on that. I'm not a GW apologist. In fact, I'm the one that got my friends into OPR. We all like it for a lot of the same reasons others here do. Mostly "it's simple" when most of us can barely get out to play once a month (and even then, half the time, people cancel on it, anyway....). The important thing is "We play OPR because we like OPR." We don't play OPR because we hate GW/40k/AOS. There's a very important distinction. Most people I ever dealt with relating to Warmahordes played it because they hated 40k, and it reflected BAD on the community. And now, 10 or so years later, what system won that fight? Don't poison OPR's community in the same way.

[@WarbossFitz]

These are people who are voicing their opinions. They have found a new community that has had the same experiences they had with GW. Theses comments are acting like a support group. Leaving GW is hard, it takes time to work through the mental gymnastics that one goes through when they leave a relationship like that. For many in the OPR community that is still fresh and they are going through the anger stage. What your comment does is label newer players that have come in from GW as toxic. They just left a company that has very publicly told them they will not be missed. Let them vent, let them play. You can gatekeep your gaming group, there is no need to try and gatekeep OPR as a whole.

[@rajpreetdhillon8084]

I've tried OPR a few times now but just find the games so dull. Their games would be a lot more interesting if they would moved further away from the gw games they emulate. Instead, I've found them to be just gw games with alternating activations and removing the wound roll and a lot less flavor in their rules. Still to each their own and good luck to those who enjoy them.

[@elizabethmilward8301]

From what I've seen so far, the biggest downside of OPR is finding other people willing to play it with you. A lot of people have never heard of it and don't know what it is - no, OPR Age of Fantasy Skirmish isn't Warcry. Sigh.

[@alanjackson1568]

Finding people to play tabletop games with, is daunting. It might be possible to get family and friends into OPR, because it is so easy to learn. The only real barrier is cost for models, assembly, and painting, which is a problem multicolor 3d printers, theoretically solve. The resin multicolor printers are still too expensive for the average person, and will not solve the cost problem, but for some, being able to essentially, "paint" their own models on a computer screen, and then order the mini's, which will be printed with the desired look, could be worth the cost (though few can afford the printer itself). And the 4 color plastic printers should be good enough for casual players, while solving cost, assembly, and painting, all at once.

[@elizabethmilward8301]

@@alanjackson1568 Oddly enough, using multicolor 3D printers would take away most of what attracts me to wargaming in the first place. I love making terrain from scratch and painting the miniatures. The games may end up being more of an afterthought than anything. Fortunately, I have now run into a small group of people in my area who are into One Page Rules, so I may be able to find people to play this with after all.

[@alanjackson1568]

@@elizabethmilward8301 Nice, and good luck getting those games set up. But, keep in mind that other people, (like me) who don't like painting might be able to join as well, if they know their options.

[@elizabethmilward8301]

@@alanjackson1568 Fair enough, and if that works for you, by all means do that. But I suspect the number of new wargamers willing and able to shell out for a multicolor 3D printer is pretty low.

[@TheBlackBrickStudios]

I'm sorry, but OPR is ONE PAGE with plug and play faction books with conversions for the most popular wargame of all time... If your gaming group isn't willing to put in the effort to read less than twenty pages or watch a half-hour video, then you REALLY need a new gaming group. My group are ride-or-die with Games Workshop (which I disagree with), but they are also MY FRIENDS and are just as willing to play OPR with me as I am to play official 40k with them.

[@J.Buffer]

What kills the tt for me is the constant update and changes in the WH books. Idk how the games are so bad you cant stick to one set for long enough for me to even consider getting it.