A Starless Clan: Shadow Discussion | ft. Moonkitti, BrightGuardianAkira, & Hawkkz

In a continuation of what might become a tradition, I sat down with a few of my friends in the Warriors community to discuss the newest release: Shadow, the 3rd book in A Starless Clan. Shockingly, and while we all have qualms to take with it, this was an enjoyable book in a lot of ways that break the standards the arcs have had since the new team took over. We have a talk to talk about for this one.
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Moonkitti: / moonkitti
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Hawkkz: / hawkkz
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End Card Song: Ponte de Abril - Steve Adams • Video

[@SierraNevada2]

If they kill Squirrelflight.... There needs to be a rebellion. I need a Squirrelstar, the whole fandom needs Squirrelstar

[@sophietremblay3795]

They better not do that I never forgive them for what they do to her in her super edition and the seventh cycle if they killed I completely erase warriors books from my life

[@pikathemimikyu6655]

You'd have to change your username

[@Dayshine_WUCE]

If they kill Squirrelflight I will send a letter and I will sue them.

[@sophietremblay3795]

@@Dayshine_WUCE agree

[@zhyrny_hitler]

I don't need Squirrelstar, I just want her to die. But I still can't firgive them for what they did with Bramblestar and Tigerstar 2 in Squirrelflight's hope

[@darkninjafirefox]

I will say, we were robbed of getting to see Tawnypelt and Nightheart have a heart to heart, possibly about moving to a new clan to escape someone's legacy and a clan's expectations

[@chaseashley6775]

I was so excited to see their conversation, but it was skipped over entirely and briefly summarized and I’m so disappointed.

[@kingpinetree332]

Moon didn’t even get excited that Berryheart mentioned Needletail

[@Moonkitti]

I was glad she did

[@a-total-fool-]

i literally corner the page were berryheart brought her up and told my dad about it because i was so happy for moon :-:

[@baguettelover45]

@@Moonkitti :)

[@Hawkkz]

"I'm gonna sit on that" and then I proceed to never bring it up again 💀 Curlfeather is like 90% evil and Moon is so right about Splashtail prolly sicking the dogs on them. I have no idea how I managed to think the bones were a red herring after I literally explained everything pointing to it being true LOL

[@Dayshine_WUCE]

I was wondering what you meant there lol, a tangent that I would run on too.

[@caitlinw8351]

maybe curl and splash had an agreement on taking over riverclan, but somewhere along the lines splashtail went too far/ too evil and curl told him he’s out of the plan? so he just killed her lol

[@flakops5194]

BRO WAS ONTO NOTHING ❗❗🔥🔥🔥

[@joto5459]

Y'know, Hawkkz, is that symbol on your OC's head something to do with Phyrexia?

[@Aetherblade-z4o]

That symbol reminds of papers please for some reason 😂

[@PokemonkaDub]

Splashtail: Oh if only there was somecat who loved you... Frostpaw: OoO

[@RossThePuppyCat]

"I'd say Bristlefrost was the one zapped out of the story" AKIRA she had me cackling Also I don't find nighthearts attitude change sudden- but I think it was because he was finally away from his stressors. Sometimes it just takes a different perspective to see how you were wrong- and shadowclan gave him that.

[@spyritsolz]

Same, I don't think it was sudden at all, there were a lot of hints and signs of change throughout the book. I'm just mad at the fact he dumped Sunbeam and she just came following after him lmao

[@HiHi-lt1cb]

My fear is that STARCLAN is going to reject Squirrelflight becoming leader for some bogus reason. Why else would they say "we're going to go tell our plan to Starclan" instead of "we're going to go get Squirrelflight's nine lives."? It'll make ZERO sense if they do this, but they'll probably say Starclan rejects her so they don't start a war, but then what about all the other leaders who become so? Brokenstar? Tigerstar? Blackstar? Leopardstar? Squirrelflight has more then proven her worth as leader but I just KNOW they (Starclan and the authors) won't give it to her :((((

[@Spidermonkey43]

She most definitely won’t become leader, maybe not like that, but the way it was so easy for her to become leader it is so set up for something to happen…

[@warriorcatsfan6906]

Hey StarClan forgave Squirrelflight In Squirrelflight's Hope Why would they???🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔🤔

[@Kibui]

What's even worse is that Exile From ShadowClan a "new-story-team" book re-emphasized that StarClan does not choose leaders, so as much as I also don't like the prospect of Squirrelstar, StarClan rejecting her would be absolute bullshit

[@Fynchfire]

Agreed. As much as I don't want to say it agreed

[@sophietremblay3795]

They better not do that because I will hate star clan even more and hope they will write off the books

[@Undydamon]

Hawkkz arguing with Sunny over the potential Squirrelstar situation had such "SHE WORE A CROWN AND SHE CAME DOWN IN A BUBBLE DAWG!" energy

[@Cayteecatt]

"they dont kill major characters without making a fuss about it" tell that to leafpool getting killed in a se between books and having it revealed in a prolouge nonchalantly 😭😭😭

[@miawmiawmiawmi]

LEAFPOOL IS THE ERINS LEAST FAVORITE CHARACTER I SWEAR

[@Weirdanimalboy]

Frostpaw’s chapter should’ve definitely closed out the book. No questions asked. The moment she heard those paw steps the first time I was literally there in the book with her, waiting for the moment she was about to be attacked. I doubt she’s truly dead, although it could be the opportune time for Windclan to be put into the plot. Finding a mortally wounded child on their doorstep definitely gives them some agency in this whole thing (and gets us inside Windclan, can’t wait to see Frostpaw absolutely destroy Crowfeather again). Also, total tangent. I *_loathe_* Lionblaze. I have no idea how they manage to do it, but every time he appears this arc I want him to spontaneously combust.

[@GrimmDelightsDice]

​@mintleaf I don't want Ivy but I sure as heck don't want Lion deputy.

[@Spidermonkey43]

@mintleaf so many people want Ivypool but I feel like Ivypool wouldn’t want to be deputy… she’s just not the deputy type cat

[@3zra._.]

@@Spidermonkey43 she’s impulsive

[@sipmyleg88389]

Imo twigbranch could be q good deputy too

[@3zra._.]

@@sipmyleg88389 yesss! She’s levelheaded

[@eshix4089]

My theory is that in Thunder Frostpaw and Nightheart will time travel to the past, Frostpaw will go to the DOTC era and say "wow, I truly am in Riverstar's Home" and Nightheart will go to forest territory ThunderClan and be forced to steal prey and say "I can't believe I am A Thief in ThunderClan" no I do no take constructive criticism.

[@mayhapslynn]

this is all true actually I'm erin hunter!!

[@Weirdanimalboy]

And then they’ll both meet up and say “Wow, we truly are Warriors living in A Starless Clan!”

[@sophietremblay3795]

Oh not another time travel we already saw it in the fourth cycle and honestly I don’t really care about the ancient clans I read the fifth cycle and I absolutely hate it the character are flat and boring

[@beelunder8433]

can we put you on the writing team

[@fairycat23]

And then Frostpaw says, "It's Frostin' time!"

[@shamanfox7064]

Them: Shadowsight 2.0 Me: Alderheart 3.0

[@aim6103]

god it would be SO COOL if sunbeam followed nightheart to thunderclan because her mother suggested it to infiltrate thunderclan and shes just plotting her revenge this entire time. Or shes sent there by her mom to try and stop squirrelflight from attacking shadowclan

[@lj2659]

True!!

[@silviaflowers9475]

I wish man, I hope this has some ulterior motive

[@superfanamber]

I'm really loving this series. Nothing is extremely obvious right away, and that is such a breath of fresh air. My own personal opinion, I think Splashtail got someone else to 'kill' Frostpaw so he could still seem like the 'good boy' to her.

[@Spidermonkey43]

Ooh yeah and then he could act like he’s mourning over her, use that to get close to Mothwing, and then guide her in the direction of the cat he wants her to chose as her apprentice

[@Blaze_the_cat_]

That doesn't make any sense though if he killed her he wouldn't need to seem nice

[@antisocial_butterfly1]

My best case scenario and crazy theory: frostpaw really dies and becomes a Starclan cat. We then have a Starclan perspective. The young warrior who goes with her is also a Starclan cat. Or maybe juniperclaw because what the heck this is a head cannon. Sunbeam will not lose all of her character, and will deliberately fail her final task as well to make nightheart feel her pain, and she becomes bad. Then we have a villain pov. And as for nightheart, he continues to get good character development and gets goals or even has to try to join sunbeam to betray her even though it breaks his heart. I also want finchflight to be secretly gay, and for nightheart to be the super supportive brother who becomes bffs forever with finchlight and her gf

[@SavouryGalette]

I kinda want Nightheart to be gay.

[@maura_edwards]

@@SavouryGalette most fans are DYING for lgbtq+ rep (including me) but sadly I don’t think it will happen. Sadly most companies don’t because that makes the audience smaller (homophobic families and countries) which means less profit . It would be satisfying to see a queer cat though, and we never know, don’t let me burst your bubble, but don’t have high hopes. Head cannons and fan works are something I would recommend you engage in.

[@SavouryGalette]

@@maura_edwards I'm not engaging in that. I'm just staying back and hoping.

[@maura_edwards]

@@SavouryGalette honestly that might for the best, I realized some fans are kinda toxic but I’m hoping with you. It’s would be exciting to have any gay cat, I think nightheart would be a good candidate.

[@SavouryGalette]

@@maura_edwards I was actually thinking about editing in a part about toxic LGBTQ+ fans and supporters, but I thought it went on too long.

[@tundra5771]

As for Bramblestar, I could almost see the books not wanting him to go out like this and having him become strong again due to some crisis (yes, horrible) and nothing ever changes

[@sophietremblay3795]

Honestly it’s kinda of annoying cuz they still need to work on his character we need closure

[@pillowmoment]

He needs more character development. He’s not getting it now. We know he’s confused and paranoid and he’s trying very hard to stay away from battle as much as he can, and that’s why he steps down. He can get some well needed development as an elder. He can deal with his life and his trauma and squilf can still turn to him for advice if she wants. Seeing him finally be able to process his life and decisions will make him better. I’ve always viewed bramblestar as a cat who never thought things over because he was too busy. Plenty of leaders are like that! They don’t have the time to process. Maybe he can go through the steps of realizing his flaws and use it to be a good role model for his clanmates, even as an elder. That’s all i want. I don’t need somebody to scream at him about how bad he is. I want him to realize it.

[@sophietremblay3795]

@@pillowmoment I agree

[@zhyrny_hitler]

I really hope they will fix Bramblestar and he will die as a hero, not as paranoid elder

[@sophietremblay3795]

@@zhyrny_hitler yeah

[@motorcitymangababe]

I feel like this book further confirmed my froststar theory. I think she's gonna have a similar vibe to tigerheart/ star being a "chosen one" with a resurrection. If she's alive alive she's gonna be following a founder leader sent mission vital to uniting her clan. If she's in a ghostly form it's basically gonna be haunting someone until they go with her. But it still feels like this entire book is pointing a giant flashing arrow at Frostpaw. Also, she is 100% the cat sunbeam saw as Nightheart's new mate in that dream. I don't think it's gonna happen- but if she joins thunder clan for him and he dips to go run off with a pretty chosen one cat who looks just like NH's dream gf she's gonna lose it. ETA- I think both people are correct. Like, squilf becoming leader is likely to happen BUT it's not gonna go off without a hitch. I think there is gonna be an attempt to kill her. If it's before she gets to the moon pool, she'll survive. If it's after, that's how she loses her first life. I think even more than being the deciding vote, the most important thing she could do as a leader is get a firsthand experience of the rot in riverclan- it might push her towards tigerstar and bring thunderclan into the plot on a non romantic way. Cause if they tried to kill her she'd get to the bottom of it.

[@emiliaromana2683]

YES! I love the idea of Froststar! It would be so cool and funny and refreshing, even if she is only 16 in human years or something xD But I would LOVE that :)

[@motorcitymangababe]

@@emiliaromana2683 right? I also love all the future drama that can come from a really young leader. All her possible mentors are also possible enemies, how does she maintain respect? All that jazz

[@beastmaster0934]

They’re gonna pull a Windstar and have someone drag Squirrelflight to the Moonpool to get her lives.

[@JustDuckiest]

I get the feeling there was a small group of cats (Splashtail, Curlfeather, possibly Duskfur) and perhaps Splashtail or Curlfeather were meant to be deputy while Duskfur become leader, but Curlfeather faked the feather sign so she would become leader instead. Not sure how the dogs were controlled during Curlfeather's death (unless the RiverClan patrol missed a carcass that was left for the dogs?) but it seems somebody was pissed at Curlfeather. Maybe somebody in StarClan is involved? Since Frostpaw did have a dream about curled feathers. ShadowClan might also be involved, who knows. I'm probably giving too much thought to the plot of a Warriors series lol. I really, really don't want Squirrelflight to be killed, or rejected by StarClan. If they're going to go the route of stopping Squirrelstar from happening, I hope it's more related to loss of communication with StarClan for whatever reason, maybe the same thing RiverClan is experiencing.

[@Spidermonkey43]

Oohh corrupt Curlfeather?? That’s such an interesting topic ! (And I’m saying this cuz it would be interesting to see Frostpaw handing the fact that her mother led her astray). Also maybe the group of dogs was led by another cat that wanted to be leader?

[@Ivy-Tellers]

I think they tried to make tigerstar seem scared, like, it seemed as if he only took over riverclan so that it wouldn't dismantle itself, because of the whole "if one of you fall the others will too" thing that happened in a vision of shadows, so he seemed scared of his clan falling apart because of riverclan so that's why he took over

[@GweenOfTea]

I’m so happy my favorite WC KZbinrs have started these hour(s) long videos talking abt the newest releases, I will always be looking forward to these This is gonna sound really evil, but I hope Frostpaws experience with Splashtail makes her realize that she doesn’t actually want or need a mate and stays single, I just want a single female main character bro I also wouldn’t be surprised if Curlfeather says “don’t trust anyone” to plant a seed of doubt in Frostpaws mind, or if she was the one using Splashtail and had no intentions of making him deputy and just used him to get nine lives and intended to make another cat deputy

[@RobynLapp]

If (when?) it comes out that Curlfeather was complicit in a coup, I hope the writers realize this is going to be absolutely devastating to Frostpaw (and her siblings). Poor thing's spirit is probably going to be crushed enough when she figures out Splashtail was just using her but Curlfeather used to be the one cat she loved and trusted most. Maybe when she and Sunbeam meet each other they can bond over things their mothers have done.

[@RobynLapp]

Berryheart is SUCH a great villain. Like, she's going far enough that you have to fear for Fringewhisker's life but she's 'normal' enough that a seemingly well meaning character could become her. (We need more villains like that in fiction. And fewer in real life.) Have to say though, I don't think that Sunbeam's at a point where she could really accept all of her mother's rhetoric uncritically, no matter how badly Nightheart hurt her. She'd still stand up for Fringewhisker at least. Berryheart is more of a black and white thinker, (checks allegiances) no pun intended. She's not good at seeing a middle ground in situations, at least when they involve her children and their love interests. Went from being the 'cool' parent who tried to support her kid (or at least was the only parent to take the apprentices' side in the argument) when her daughter ran away to join a violent gang (and date the guy who got in fights with its leader) to being a total reactionary and her relationships with at least two-thirds of her second litter might not turn out any better. (Also, I like that she's changed in a lot of meaningful ways since the first half of AVOS but she's still willing to cooperate with sketchy outsiders if it means her own Clan doesn't need to concern itself with WindClan cats being murdered by Darktail or anything like that.)

[@SLTheOneAndAwesome19]

Since my prediction for Sky was spot on, I'm gonna attempt one for Thunder: I do not think Squirrelflight will be leader at the end of the arc. But, I don't necessarily think she will be killed. What I do think may happen, is that she joins Leafstar in challenging Tigerstar and a Clanwide war starts. I think there will be a lot of death as a result of that war (at least I hope so. I don't know who like 3/4 of these cats are anymore). Squirrelflight was literally facing opposition to her leadership *last arc*. One thing goes wrong and I can see her being the victim of the impeachment rule.

[@Spidermonkey43]

Yeah it’s so likely she won’t be leader. Most likely she will realize “she’s not meant to be leader, Bramblestar is!” After every cat probably starts saying something like “Bramblestar was a better leader” or “Bramblestar is the real leader” and he’ll be back in by the end of the arc.

[@Snowstar837]

​@@Spidermonkey43 They do like making Squilf's life hard so probably will 😂😢

[@snakesareamazing]

@@Spidermonkey43 I dont think Bramblestar will become leader again, even if the cats dont like Squilf as a leader. He's clearly not able to do his job anymore and if some of his clanmates want him to become the leader again, he'd probably just refuse to do it. It's not like they can force him

[@SLTheOneAndAwesome19]

@@snakesareamazing I have a feeling it'll be Ivypool, since she was one of the options for the Super Edition that's coming out this November. It could have been supplementary to A Starless Clan and been meant to build the case for her leadership.

[@Spidermonkey43]

@@SLTheOneAndAwesome19 Ivypool is a decent option but she doesn’t seem like the type of cat to become deputy.

[@sdchelsea231]

So I did enjoy the book, and I ended up getting the audiobook so I could listen to it at work. Splashtail definitely has a paw in who tried to kill frostpaw. The only frustrating thing for me was that Sunbeam changed her mind about being angry instantly! She should've stayed upset for a while after that betrayal.

[@sirensong1794]

Honestly if Squirrelflight does die, I dont really see why Bramblestar wouldnt still step down and appoint someone else. ig you could argue he would be too depressed to make a choice but we already have a useless/no leader situation with riverclan it feels like it would just be kind of a repeat of that plotpoint just serving to make the whole situation worse i suppose.

[@sophietremblay3795]

Uhh didn’t we already saw that in the first cycle seriously I am annoyed

[@kingofoblivion8311]

Aw, y'all didn't bring up the two instances of Tigerstar II's Failed Stand Up Comedy

[@Spidermonkey43]

Ik lol those scenes were so funny to see his jokes fall flat

[@Aspen-245]

His inner dad is coming out

[@Spidermonkey43]

@@Aspen-245 then he’ll start wearing sandals with socks, tucked in shirts and fall asleep watching the TV

[@Aspen-245]

@@Spidermonkey43 LOL then he’ll start asking dovewing to massage his back and bring him fresh kill

[@Spidermonkey43]

@@Aspen-245 lol yeah

[@AGR04]

I disagree that Sunbeam's character was "ruined" at the end of this book. It seemed pretty obvious to me that she's coping HARD over feeling so heartbroken and lonely and makes the reckless decision to join ThunderClan as an escape...basically the same thing Nightheart did. Hopefully next book he can be mature enough to recognize what she's doing and help her see her escapist fantasy for what it is.

[@Riki35924]

Wind book blurb spoilers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Not to mention now that Nightheart is confirmed to be the tom that will accompany Frostpaw, he literally wont even be there in TC to develop a relationship with Sunbeam, making it an even more rushed decision

[@carmencastillo8110]

I have this theory that Owlnose might be involved in killing Frostpaw. Or maybe Lightleap based off that one line in River. Also, with Sunbeam. They have a chance to make her complex again by having Nightheart go protect Frostpaw, where they'll probably meet WarriorClan and Wafflepaw. I really really hope they do that. Edit: I now think Lightleap was a red herring, and that Curlfeather (who was on patrol with Reedwhisker when he died) saw Splashtail (who was also on patrol) kill Reedwhisker. That's why she told Frostpaw that it was the fall that killed him. She also definitely faked the star leaf sign (not sure how), likely to keep Splashtail's suspicion off her. It didn't work. So Splashtail faked the curled feather sign, and lured the dogs to the Moonpool to kill her. Not knowing who worked with Spalshtail, Curlefeather said to trust no cat. Duskfur also isn't involved. It's Minnowtail and Mallownose. They're working with Splashtail to become leader. I still think that Nightheart's going to go with to meet WarriorClan and Wafflepaw. Hopefully, I'm right.

[@SavouryGalette]

_Which_ line from River?

[@carmencastillo8110]

@@SavouryGalette It's not really important, but it was in one of Sunbeam's chapters after Reedwhisker died

[@SavouryGalette]

@@carmencastillo8110 Yeah, but I don't know which one you're referring too.

[@carmencastillo8110]

@@SavouryGalette Sorry, I don't really have a specific page number

[@emiliaromana2683]

It would be so cool, if Frostpaw really dies and we would have our first StarClan protagonist, who is in StarClan and visits her clan as a spirit and we see the world of StarClan more and all our beloved cats, who passed away. It would be diffrent from Shadowsights scene, that was exacly the same (night out, someone ripped his throught open, but he survives somehow)

[@Answeredriddle]

Frostpaw is sapphic ace. I'll fight you Moon come at me.

[@cinderrmella]

frostpaw is JUST LIKE ME FOR REAL!!!

[@GrimmDelightsDice]

Moonkitti doesn't disagree with the headcanon, I don't think. I think she's just tired of hoping for representation.

[@mothlarvas5066]

(real quick comphet is a term coined by a terf for radfem reasons and its pretty uncomfortable to see thrown around like it isnt :S might wanna find a different word to describe "non-straight people feeling an obligation to perform straightness")

[@Answeredriddle]

@@mothlarvas5066 I wanted to do some research before immediately replying, so I apologize for the delay! I had previously understood the term to mean ‘brought up in a heteronormative society where people that do not fall into the cisgender/heterosexual binary are pushed to adopt a persona that appeases the cishet expectations of their society.’ I believe there is value in that concept as societal pressures to conform are a very real reality for the queer community, so I used it. I had heard mention at some point that Adrienne Rich was terf adjacent (being supportive of a godawful piece of transmisogynistic trash according to the author of said trash), but given that another work by a non-binary butch lesbian had praised her (Transgender Warriors), I chalked it up to ‘a word coined by a complicated historical figure whose legacy should be examined with a critical lens.’ Then I decided to do some more research following your reply, and… eugh. I’ll avoid using the term from now on, since regardless of how one interprets its legacy, ‘comphet’ seems to be largely adopted by terfs in general for their own agenda which is. Grotesque. And I don’t want my silly 5 second comments to be misconstrued as supportive of that bigotry. I’ve edited the comment and won’t be using the term further.

[@mothlarvas5066]

@@Answeredriddle ah, thank you! i figured you probably didnt know, a concerning amount of (especially younger and online) people arent aware of the radfem origins of a lot of ideas and words that have retained an unpleasant persistance in the lgbt+ community (especially lesbian ones, unfortunately), so its important to recognize the dogwhistles before theyre blown imo. i think its good you went out of your way to look deeper into it also, i appreciate it! and yeah i def agree there should be a term for that concept, since its one very broadly shared in the lgbt+ community sadly. i think theres alternatives out there but i forget which they are, its always fair game to come up with your own way to describe the experience ofc.

[@theincrediblebreeb3030]

I think it was either Splashtail or Curlfeather who killed Reedwhisker. A few of that group, including them specifically, have been working on getting a new leader for while now and I think they couldn't agree on who it would be. So when Curlfeather was "chosen by starclan" by her daughter who she did her best to convince was a medicine cat, Splashtail lured the dogs to their path to take out the competition

[@nonyabeez1705]

I think y'all were really overthinking the Curlfeather death scene. I think Hawkzz is right. Curlfeather knew Splashtail and Frostpaw were close. And while you guys argued it couldn't be because it seemed like Splashtail wouldn't do that, Curlfeather at some point probably also thought he'd never have her savaged by dogs. Curlfeathers warning doesn't need to be looked into too far. It's clearly about Splashtail. She was about to be ripped apart, she knew it was Splashtail's fault, and simply warned her daughter because she's close to him. That's the rational conclusion, because it's obvious and fits with Curlfeathers personality. She could also have been talking about Duskfur as well. You can definitely interchange Duskfur and Splashtail here. They're both close to Frostpaw afterall, and Curlfeather would be apt to being betrayed by either. So she definitely knew. She didn't want frostpaw trusting them cause they're evil. Not because she was immediately worried for Frostpaws safety, but because whoever this cat is, Curlfeather trusted them. And in that moment she'd been betrayed and was killed by dogs.

[@catz537]

I was definitely annoyed that Sunbeam went straight to ThunderClan after Nightheart.. I really like Frostpaw and I'm sad she had to make such massive decisions for her clan, and that she's being manipulated and was almost killed, she's just an innocent kid I felt bad for Bramblestar during most of this book, except when he tricked Nightheart to confirm what Squirrelflight was up to And I don't have any idea whether Squirrelstar will happen or not. I'm not going to assume either way. All I know is that if Lionblaze somehow ends up as deputy, I'm going to throw that book in a fire

[@secretstarlight440]

Maybe sunbeam is infiltrating thunder clan using her relationship with Nightheart as an excuse to sneak in. Perhaps she is still angry and made up some sort of plan inside of shadow with others to find out what is happening. That’s what I was feeling when I was reading that part. Hopefully that happens, what do you think?

[@ryguy7663]

that wouldn’t make any sense with the text in the book, nothing implies anything like that

[@sweetzeyraa]

@@ryguy7663 well nothing implies it yeah, but we could get a flashback next book where Berryheart convinces her daughter that Nightheart wronged her and that she needs to take revenge. See how Sunbeam's chapter finishes? She's thinking about how her mother might be right bout everything!

[@almondsun]

I would LOVE to see a protagonist have morally gray intents. Sunbeam girlboss!!!

[@HiHi-lt1cb]

I hope so! As someone pointed out we don't get her thoughts between Nightheart leaving and her deciding to join Thunderclan. Maybe Berryheart put her up to it?

[@Spidermonkey43]

Especially how she thought that she couldn’t trust him anymore and though that Berryheart was right it would really be interesting if Berryheart convinced her to believe her

[@Silvermoon32109]

I think the young warrior is the kitty pet apprentice that we are voting for

[@stinkeerr]

oh shoot! I didn't even think about that

[@Prime_The_Great]

I predicted the Splashtail-Berryheart team up, though it was more Riverclan conservatives teaming up with Shadowclan conservatives. I didn’t think that Splashtail would lead Riverclan’s side though. Mallownose and Duskfur are probably not on the know of Splashtail’s goals. They definitely care about their kin, such as Duskfur aging when Curlfeather dies and Mallownose is uncomfortable when Splashtail says that he can make Frostpaw do what he wants. One thing about Kate vs Cherith writing is that Cherith sometimes writes events from a flashback perspective. Firestar losing a life to a fox, the Kin mistreating the prisoners, Sunbeam and Lightbeam watching the Riverclan camp degrade are all from Cherith books where it’s described after the fact.

[@smarrtie2571]

Hawkz voice is so relaxing

[@pikathemimikyu6655]

I had a feeling before reading the book that Splashtail was going to be the bad guy, but I was NOT prepared for him (an adult) to be grooming and gaslighting a child.

[@batsnghostz]

Like you could guess he was BAD but not DISGUSTING

[@pikathemimikyu6655]

@frozenraichu6930 exactly! Took me off guard!

[@3zra._.]

I think he’s also the murderer lol

[@pikathemimikyu6655]

@@3zra._. they seem to be pointing towards that. Maybe they'll revert expectation?

[@3zra._.]

@@pikathemimikyu6655 maybe

[@batsnghostz]

Been waiting for this since I read Shadow ✨😍

[@anonmusbrothers6577]

Woooo! i have been eagerly awaiting this episode of this podcast series. it's really fun and I can't wait to see the next episode! (I don't actually read the books anymore so this podcast is how I stay up to date, and it's from my favorite KZbinrs!)

[@nyxizelo3561]

I love long discussion videos, very cool to see everyone's views!

[@alexamichelle8915]

I would LOVE SQUIRRELSTAR, but moonkitti si so right- 😔

[@nonyabeez1705]

Hear me out on Sol convincing them all to do this (I just want to see Sol again)

[@SageKJS]

Solstar, the new leader of RiverClan! 😼

[@VolleyPuppy91]

I am manifesting Squirrelstar 😭😭💕 pleaseee I’m with Hawkkz on this, Please Erin’s, give this to Squilf!

[@MacabreThingggg]

Hooray! I love hearing y'all get together and discuss the books and expectations ❤

[@foolishlysnowy]

these podcasts are great because i no longer have the attention span to read the books myself but i feel like ive read them by the end of the video, PLUS i love yall talking and havin fun with friends! sunnyfall cutting people off before they can finish their thought gets a little on my nerves,,, as someone who gets talked over a lot its hard to listen to idk if im just oversensitive or if anyone else has noticed that as well considering how often the others say "oh sorry, you go first" etc, when they start speaking at the same time

[@Fleef]

been super excited to see this episode and I absolutely loved your guys’ discussion!! i figured i’d drop my own thoughts here about a specific thing depending on how the next 3 books go will change how I feel about nightheart and sunbeam, but: while i frankly cannot stand nightheart and the way he’s written i was happy to see him sort of get a resolution to his arc (even if it wasn’t earned on his end). i was also very excited to see him cat divorce sunbeam there and especially the potential manipulation/her siding with berryheart for the next couple of books. i read that last chapter and got extremely excited to see where they would go with this. and then! it gets ruined by the end of nightheart’s chapter and that frustrates me unreasonably. there’s still time to see where this goes, but i’m not too optimistic on them giving sunbeam the satisfying arc she deserves

[@Spidermonkey43]

There is a chance sunbeam is still secretly siding with Berryheart

[@Fleef]

@@Spidermonkey43 i very much hope so T-T it still feels like they’re just undermining the conflict they set up, but we’ll see

[@ducks_all_around5345]

The amount of people afraid of squirrelflight dying is strange. There are many logical reasons against such train of thought. I believe this is a ploy on the Erin's part to keep us on the edge of our seats, to make it so we can't wait for what happens next. Even so I don't think anyone will listen to me anyways

[@RobynLapp]

It would be way out of line to have StarClan completely reject Squirrelstar because there's precedent for a leader stepping down. What's far more likely to happen is they give her however many lives Bramblestar has already lost like they did for Sunstar when Pinestar left ThunderClan. And I maintain that needing the other leaders' permission to get rid of a leader is an even bigger obstacle than needing three quarters of the Clan to agree. Like, if Bramblestar could convince three quarters of ThunderClan now, Tigerstar would veto it because Bramblestar stepping down isn't in his best interests. And in the one case we're actually seen where an entire Clan, except for the leader's immediate family members, could have agreed to get rid of him, they wouldn't have been okay with needing the other Clans' permission. And while Onestar and Mistystar were pretty unforgiving with Rowanstar, I'm not sure they expected anyone else in ShadowClan to do any better.

[@clawcakes2]

13:38 "because...! uh," SUCH a mood

[@loftwyng131]

My thought is that the original plan was to elect Curlfeather as deputy under Mistystar, and then once mistystar died, splashtail would be the next deputy. I don't think Mistystar was meant to die until Curlfeather was truly appointed deputy. The plan would then be for Splashtail to get an apprentice, and once mistystar died of natural causes, splashtail would be appointed deputy under Curlstar. But things went awry when Mistystar had a heart attack, and they had to pivot. Obviously though, this would mean that splashtail would not be able to be appointed deputy right away, so I think its at this point that he deviates from the initial plan. He sends the dogs to attack curlfeather, so that he could cut off one of the only people who could stand in his way. I think he also started befriending Frostpaw at this time, in order to use her to eventually become leader himself (he probably figured that even if he didn't get an apprentice, he could use her to force himself to become leader anyways.) Buuuut thats just my thoughts having not actually read most of the books in this arc so far, so correct me if there's anything I'm missing here. I'm mainly just going off of what people have been saying

[@alixdied4713]

I wanna mention to anny commenters that dont know: there is a special version of i *think thunder rising in dawn of the clans, river ripple actually has an extra scene of him in the park and how he got to the clan territories. Theres probably it somewhere on the internet. Its genuanly a nice short read, i recoment it!

[@nonyabeez1705]

While I think she deserves it, I hope they don't give Squirrelflight nine lives. I just feel like she'd ruin ThunderClan somehow (not her fault- I'm talking about what the Erin's would do to her character). And it seems like she'd be prone to picking Sparkpelt as deputy. Sparkpelt would be an awful deputy.

[@emizabethdavis1828]

I have six kittens that is ready to be named, so I've decided to name them using the warrior cats naming system from dawn of the clans, so they would have the warrior names even though they are kit's, I thought it would be fun to come up with the first part of each kid's name and then post a comment on all the KZbinrs that I'm subscribe to that mostly talks about warrior cat books and let whoever wants to come up with the second part of the name, then me and my family as well as the family's that some of the kit's will be going to when they are older (who also loves the warrior cats series and thought this would be fun too) if you have any names Just please comment them down below, I'll let everybody know what names was picked, they are three gray tabbies one girl and two boys, the last three kit's are solid black females, the names that have been chosen for the gray tabbies are Sage, Basil, and Shade, for the black kit's Ebony, Juniper, and Raven. Shade also have some black on the back, and Ebony is the smallest of all of the Kit's, thank you and sorry for any mistakes that might be in this post, I'm in the middle of doing something, if there's any questions please don't hesitate to ask.🐱

[@ccondelli]

So I'm a hopeless romantic and I actually like Sunbeam chasing Nightheart to ThunderClan, don't hate me! I know it's the wrong opinion. Dont get me wrong, I hate the sexist implications! I really wish the genders were switched: the tom goes after the she-cat after he realizes that she just loves her family while his is toxic after she abandons him and breaks his heart. That way we don't perpetuate the warrior cats sexism so much, which I do hate, and we get to have my sappy romantic story

[@batsnghostz]

I agree. Frostpaw sapphic ace X Whistlepaw Splashtail DEFINITELY gay

[@RobynLapp]

You know, it would make sense for Sunbeam to meet Nightheart's family whom he did nothing but complain about, his Clan who really aren't that bad to him, and realize that she too was too hard on a lot of cats in her life (I don't think she's AS bad, but still). Not just Lightleap and Blazefire but others like Flaxfoot too. Like, he may have said a bit too much to Berryheart but his heart is in the right place. She could realize that even if she doesn't have a mate in ShadowClan she misses them too much to leave them. And she also wants to stop Berryheart from doing something lots of cats will regret. Yeah, that's the only possibility that makes sense. I refuse to accept others. Make me!

[@williamwayne4043]

I guess I need to subscribe and hit the bell. Because I was waiting for this discussion excitedly as soon as I finished the book. Your recent discussions on the recent books have been really awesome to listen to. 😄

[@skelly_universe7215]

I'm sorry if that sounds rude or something but I can't hold this joke back anymore: Hawkkz being surrounded by ladies once again.

[@a-total-fool-]

sheeeeeeeeesh

[@batsnghostz]

So is Curlfeather in the dark forest do you think? I’ve seen no evidence she’s in StarClan..

[@Rainbowpaw_shine]

My question is, if there is a Squirrelstar, who would become deputy? I know Birchfall is old, but I think he would be a good choice. (Please, no Lionblaze!!!)

[@Rainbowpaw_shine]

@mintleaf9318 hmm I'm not too keen on Ivypool. But if it happened, she is DEFINITELY becoming deputy... Warrior Cats loves Ivypool, so yeah, she's gonna be deputy

[@GrimmDelightsDice]

I'm expecting a shakeup that causes her to choose Nightheart (for insert arbitrary reason here) so he can complete his Firestar-mirror-arc as leader

[@GrimmDelightsDice]

@mintleaf "I'm not even orange!"

[@Spidermonkey43]

@@GrimmDelightsDice Nightheart doesn’t have an apprentice tho, but I can still totally see them doing that.

[@GrimmDelightsDice]

@@Spidermonkey43 Oh yeah, I know (thus the shakeup giving Squilf an arbitrary reason to choose him), and I don't *want* it to happen, but I can really see the team doing it.

[@sirbobthemarvelous]

I mean VIoletshine and Tree had a bunch more back and forth, and I'm like, pretty sure it was Violetshine to asked Tree out. Correct me if I'm wrong tho

[@Dayshine_WUCE]

Just read the book like yesterday and exited to hear your opinions about the book ☺ ☺ love your vids Sunnyfall, Moon Akira and Hawks!♥♥♥ I think it was pretty good and is it just me or is Berryheart Bramblestar and Squilf just great in this book??? ( for context I Hate Bramblestar )

[@Fluorescent_mineral]

I like men

[@fuzzyclaws5379]

I like women

[@estoag8037]

I don’t like men or women nor anyone in between

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

People exists.

[@viridiankat8527]

I like women

[@William_Nowin]

I like everyone

[@pillowmoment]

Haven’t watched the video yet but IMO 100% splashtail is the bad guy. He convinces frostpaw, somehow, to step away from a medicine cat role. Then makes her feel bad for it. Then, i believe he attacked her when she found out what happened to reedwhisker. I think she has visions, but she interprets them wrong. Entirely wrong. It’s not just a coincidence she only dreams about warriors who are about to die. Her parents, leopardstar telling her about nearly dead reedwhisker. I want to see her realize this and use it to make her decision on what she wants to do in her life. Squirrelstar, i’m excited for. If they deny her leadership i will riot. That’s not fair. She deserves leadership more than any other cat, and she’s more fit for it. We don’t have any more room for any other leader drama outside of riverclan. Leader drama sucks, deputy drama sucks. Riverclan’s chapters make me feel icky. Frostpaw is a great character, but i could care less for their problems.

[@pillowmoment]

Also. Bramble development has made me very happy. I do not like him. But i have a lot of sympathy for him. In some guilty way, he reminds me of myself sometimes. I’m super impulsive and don’t think about how it affects who i love. We’ve seen in the past some leaders are just too busy to handle their own issues. With how big thunderclan is right now, i wouldn’t put it past bramble and squilf to be extremely overwhelmed. Bramble is already still trying to process what happened to him, and squilf is overworked and angry with his judgement, that he KNOWS is bad! He is aware he makes bad choices, he is aware he’s just trying to protect himself. Finally for once, bramblestar is aware of one of his flaws. He was not a strong leader. He was just bramblestar. Besides getting possessed. What are any huge choices he’s made for thunderclan and his own clan? He is aware of that now and that maybe gives me false hope that he will get development and be a better character. I’m just really hoping. Because i love bramblepaw. In TPB he is such an endearing character. He can process things appropriately and make good choices. I’m hoping that as an elder he will be given the help he needs to push through the obvious dark spot in his mind.

[@TessuDraws]

I liked the book but the last chapter entirely ruined it for me. All that build up. For absolutely nothing. Ugh. Well, except for Frostpaw's chapters. Frostpaw's chapters are still good. But I was able to enjoy SunNight chapters solely by believing/hoping Nightheart would fail and they'd have to break up. Then they even had Sunbeam be really upset with him! Huzzah! And then the last chapter completely ruins all of that and makes every single one of their chapters useless. Might as well had Nightheart lightswitch a book earlier and Sunbeam move to ThunderClan to escape Blazefire and Lightleap and absolutely nothing would be different. I hate it.

[@CricketIsSlay]

all that stuck with me was the stuff about squirrel flight ._.

[@orangejuicejubilee6149]

Maybe something bad is going to happen on the way to the moonpool that won't kill Squirrelflight, but she'll disappear and the clan will think she's dead. Gives Bramblestar the sad old man turmoil and gives the chance of Squirrelstar happening (or gives extra time for Squirrelflight to have a heroic, properly built up death. They know she's a fan-favorite, they built up Graystripe's death a lot, I don't think she's going to just get sniped on the way to the moonpool at the beginning of a book and die, way too anticlimactic.)

[@bgmarshall]

1:05:55 she did it

[@Hawkkz]

LMAO NO WAY SHE ACTUALLY DID 😭😭 SUNNY PLEASE

[@2cat4life]

hype!!!!!!!!!!! IF THEY KILL MY BABY FROSTPAW I WILL BE SO SADD

[@phantomstarsx9343]

We should get another insane and fascinating statistic overview for the ages of the characters that get mates or develope relevant crushes and see how well that translates over between the Tom's and She-cats

[@cheesysamich]

I love moonkitti

[@BuzzoBeee]

I mean who doesn’t she’s awesome

[@mossfeet]

maybe leafpool was vague about the sacrifice because she hoped bramblestar might go ahead and die, which like, me too

[@Smilesgalore2013]

I,m a HUGE fan of moonitti, akrira AND sunnyfall

[@3zra._.]

I finished it in ONE SITTING

[@Aspen-245]

Same

[@Bioskye]

It goes by faster if youre drawing while listening to it!

[@3zra._.]

@@Bioskye no I mean the book… I read the book in one sitting..

[@nikkilynn6057]

Am I the only one that has always just gotten the vibe that everybody is being so rude to Hawk??

[@sipmyleg88389]

Yeah ur probably the only one

[@lemon8577]

No, you're not the only one, I was like bruh

[@Bioskye]

I got the vibe too

[@nonyabeez1705]

Definitely not the only one 😅 I'm sure they didn't mean it in that way at all but a lot of tones seemed quite rude towards him

[@emilymonahan5232]

yeahh i think he's just pretty outnumbered in his takes here and he doesn't have enough assertiveness or, like, _time_ to effectively argue his points. it kind of turns into hawk saying "what about this?" and everyone saying "what?? no." and he goes "oh, okay, my bad" lmaooo

[@BuzzoBeee]

If they kill Squirrelflight I will yeet myself out of the fandom without a single glance back

[@tiffanywysong2763]

I feel like at this rate all clans are related

[@lj2659]

I’d love for a video from any of these creators to talk about the name vote and who Wafflepaw will be!

[@forestkitsunerosa8514]

Hey since you did a review about the D&d warrior cat game can you review the itch warrior game Clangen next.

[@fall-oc6ez]

Wow, look, I’m from the future! I need Squirrelstar. I want a chance for her to fight ShadowClan with SkyClan and either ruin everything or somehow make everything better. I hate Tigerheartstar. I want him gone. Also, I wish Sunbeam would have turned evil. And I wish Frostpaw would actually die. So that Splashtail would have no Medicine cat to manipulate into pretending StarClan wants him as leader. But we already know she lives. Alas. Gay Owlnose forever!

[@alfawolfgames1376]

I ❤❤❤ your videos

[@KCTheHedgehog]

Personally, I like Nightheart and Sunbeam better then Rootfrost. They actually get to know each other over a period of time. The fact that Nightheart wasn’t all “ oh wow, she’s so cool, I love her” from the get go. I could see that he started liking her a decent time after they started being friends. Even when he starts thinking about joining her in shadowclan, the main draw is because he feels like he’ll finally have a cat in his corner, not exactly because he loved her.

[@SolarFairies]

Hiii!!! Could you talk about how a lot of the Dark Forest cats actually may not be dead, including Mapleshade? Because the books only said they fled, and may still be alive ... If you would do this, thank you🎉

[@styxgxy]

'in theastarlessclan series'

[@Tytostryxx24]

Squirrelstar!!!!!

[@ImaDeltaNow]

What if the group or one cat from it decided, behind Curlfeather's back, to kill Frostpaw so when Curlfeather goes to the Moonpool she can become leader, by herself, so no one can confirm that the feather was fake, but this ends up failing when Curlfeather gets killed and she doesn't know about this or who did it or even if it was involved but she wanted to be out on everything she had done so she told Frostpaw to trust no one. One of my theories is basically this but Idk.

[@foulflamingos2915]

I am going to lose my mind if Squilf dies. SQUIRRELSTAR WE NEED SQUIRELLSTAR!!

[@Moony1568]

Honestly, I’m 100% sure Squirrelstar is going to happen. Y’all (except for Hawkz) are being way too negative about it. It’ll be extremely bad writing if they just killed her off before she could ascend. And I don’t mean bad writing in a “I don’t like this” sense. I mean it in a “it’ll ruin the story” sense. The Erins spent all this time showing that Bramble is not fit to be leader anymore. He’s sick of the bloodshed, he’s been to hell, he’s old and he’s tired. They have shown over and over again that Squilf is competent, determined and strong. You have the rest of Thunderclan turning to her for guidance. It is painfully obvious that the main conflict for the other books is going to be Squilf rallying the other clans into battling Shadowclan out of Riverclan’s territory. That is what two of our main leads fear would happen. If the Erins were to just up and kill her for Bramble’s man pain, then they’re worst writers than I ever thought and the well-constructed plot they have going on right now would be completely destroyed. I do think the new team are quite bad when it comes to plotting books, but this one is the most tightly written one they’ve done so far. They clearly have a plan and It would be BONKERS for them to just throw all of it away for some cheap Bramble drama. Bramble doesn’t want to be leader anymore! Why in the world would they kill Squilf off just to throw him back into a position that they’ve proven that he is no longer fit for? It makes no sense and it’ll make the plot an absolute mess. Warrior Cats is not known for its subtlety. If they’re hinting that Squilf will be leader then she’s going to be leader. That’s that. Edit: sorry if this comes off as harsh. I just found the negative talk to be grating.

[@Moony1568]

As a reminder, these books are written for profit. The Team knows what the fandom wants and likes. They’re going to cater to that to maximize profits. How vindictive do they have to be to kill off or deny a fan-beloved character like Squirrelflight the position of leader? Good lord. Again, sorry for being harsh. I’m just having a hard time listening to the negative talk. It feels unnecessarily negative and its pushing all of my buttons.

[@sweetwolfsteve5583]

This book is mainly filler and it got good until the last 3 chapters they did the reader dirty with the stunt they pulled

[@hazelgrunts]

I’m so worried that they’re gonna pull a sexism with Squirrelflight and have her either rejected by starclan for a BS reason or have thunderclan refuse to listen to her like they did last arc

[@Lemonshark0518.]

I got this book the day it came out!

[@Omega_WoIf]

Will you do a review with them for Thunder?

[@beckahmari2152]

Plot twist (1) : StarClan rejects the idea forcing bramble star to continue his leadership until Thunderclan agrees to overthrow bramblestar. Plot Twist (2): Squirrelflight is killed when she discovers SplashTail’s horrible secret of killing ReedWhisker to overtake RiverClan, StarClan tells her she must save RiverClan and a battle leads to her death and the truth is told.

[@wrongenemy]

where did the hc come from that splashtail is gay? i want to hear more about it, i LOVE queer hcs

[@dawnsunlight]

Owlnose can be gay for Podlight

[@generichumansperson5747]

As much as the Sunbeam arc kinda sucked, I actually really loved the Sunbeam/Nightheart dynamic for 90% of the book, other than the first few and last two chapters. It was interesting to have two mates in the same clan for once and to see how they bounced off each other. I actually feel like some of this book could have been stretched out into either a longer book or as part of Thunder, since I feel like a LOT happened that was kinda rushed (such as the last 2 chapters), I thought it made sense for Sunbeam to eventually reach that conclusion, but i wanted a lot more personal character/introspective conflict, would have made it more interesting

[@LimitedBones]

Unpopular opinion I actually really enjoy training sessions. Oops. 😢

[@zinniabenjamin1643]

The oh a young warrior who has experience with ghosts rootspring oh yeah he’s old and depressed now

[@Happystar-wz8lf]

👍