The Oral History Of PopCap Games

MinnMax's Ben Hanson interviews key figures throughout the history of PopCap Games to tell the complete story of the studio behind massive successes like Bejeweled, Peggle, Plants vs Zombies, and more. From PopCap's cancelled games, to EA spending buying the studio for hundreds of millions of dollars, this is the most thorough look at the beloved studio yet. Thanks to our interviews Jason Kapalka, John Vechey, Laura Shigihara, Garth Chouteau, Anthony Coleman, Riana McKeith, Jeff Green, Matt Johnston, and Ellen Marett.
You can unlock the podcast version of this video and help support independent games media by supporting MinnMax on Patreon! / minnmax
To jump to a particular section of PopCap's history, check out the timecodes below...
00:00:00 - Intro
00:00:54 - Opening montage
00:02:32 - How PopCap started
00:10:50 - The origins of Bejeweled
00:27:28 - The "glory years"
00:47:15 - PopCap's greatest press
00:55:23 - The origins of Peggle
01:04:10 - Valve, Blizzard, and PopCap's collaborations
01:10:03 - Creating Plants vs. Zombies
01:21:12 - PopCap and Apple's iPhone
01:26:22 - Prototypes and cancelled games
01:40:03 - Gyromancer and "Final Fantasy Bejeweled"
01:42:29 - The problems with "Burrito"
01:49:27 - Introducing Jeff Green
01:51:35 - The rise of Facebook and social gaming
01:59:14 - Introducing PopCap Dublin
02:03:35 - PopCap's legendary parties
02:14:04 - Bookworm/PAX
02:18:05 - Creating 4th and Battery
02:22:47 - The PopCap podcast
02:24:37 - The EA acquisition
02:33:47 - What to do with hundreds of millions of dollars
02:53:43 - Bejeweled Blitz and the push for "monetization"
03:00:08 - The struggle of Plants vs Zombies 2
03:20:30 - Studio closures
03:23:10 - PopCap's life as an EA studio
03:38:47 - Plants vs Zombies: Garden Warfare
03:41:50 - Peggle 2 and "the jump"
03:44:00 - Thoughts on modern PopCap
03:50:12 - In conclusion
03:56:15 - The final performance
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[@minnmax]

Unlock the podcast version of this video and help create more content like it by supporting MinnMax on Patreon! www.patreon.com/minnmax

[@ia2604]

Hey, thanks for interviewing these folks and putting this together! As someone who worked at PopCap from 2004 to 2012, it was an incredibly special journey and these interviews capture a lot of what we were all feeling and thinking. Many of us still talk and hang out and even work together at different companies, but the PopCap years were the most special time. So thanks also for creating something that will help us remember that and reflect on all flavors of it as the years go by. Very much appreciated! ~ Isaac.

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much for watching, Isaac!

[@HenryThe2ndAnimator]

I love you

[@FireStriker_]

Thank you for all you have done at popcap. Popcap games was my childhood. So many fond memories

[@garthchouteau1983]

Just to add to the story about "don't do it Joe" at the 2:08:01 mark: I was at that party, it was the Dublin xmas party of 2010. First, it should be noted that Joe led the U.S. team to its first-ever victory over the Irish team in the drinking games that kicked off most PopCap parties. I recall him drinking three or four pints of beer in about 15 seconds at one point. Secondly, my understanding at the time was that Joe was invited to the party because he had in fact been offered a job. By the following morning, he was hungover, incredibly remorseful -- and fired, before ever working a single hour at PopCap. Shortest tenure ever !

[@minnmax]

Oh hello Garth!

[@timeforyoufitness2389]

Oh, I remember this.....Oh Joe...

[@ericthommerot7331]

Hi Garth, hope you're doing well. Joe was supposed to work with me in Dublin and I remember having interviewed him the afternoon of the party he was finally invited to then I left for the week end (I couldn't attend to the party this year). In my mind he was a perfect fit so I was very happy/confident. I remember the following Monday my boss told me "you left he was hired, you come back he is not" and she told me the full story behind it.

[@ericthommerot7331]

No he wasn't, he was only said he would, I mean nothing was signed the afternoon right before it happened. I honestly don't know what happened during the party, My boss didn't even give me any too deep details except that he had been very offensive with few women of the team and that under that circumstances it was very difficult to just think about hiring him for real. Riana give enough details and knowing her significantly well, he must have been very very rude. Anyway... And yes, I was there a couple of years earlier at the Clontarf Castle with my wife (she remembers it because she thought our Dave R was a movie actor). We all had great (more moderate) times this particular year. I'm still in the middle of the whole interview (probably 2/3 through it) and nobody talked about the PopCap olympics... That was something as well !!!

[@ericthommerot7331]

She wasn't able to say. I was curious too.

[@IIxIxIv]

Man the pvz 2 story is so heartbreaking. I knew it was going to go bad but it still broke my heart to hear the producer say it :(

[@333hp7900rpm]

4 hours! Now I have to choose this or The Snyder Cut? I love early Popcap, so I think this is my choice. 😉

[@minnmax]

PopCap taught us that we live in a society.

[@PizzaFriend]

This is better.

[@vincentfiestada]

Every single PopCap game I ever played was extremely fun and *satisfying*. They're one of the best game studios ever imho. I wish they still made non-mobile games.

[@FarlinatorKarl]

I worked for PopCap Dublin. No mention. Cheers.

[@waspswarm]

That was great! I’m glad I watched the whole thing. Thanks! I was there from 2008-2015 so it was nice to see old friends and reminisce about those great times and all those talented and passionate game makers.

[@Joes_Z-Music]

I’ll be listening to the podcast over the next couple of days, but just wanted to say thanks! This looks awesome!

[@minnmax]

Really appreciate it, thanks Joe!

[@marcuzzi2]

I thought it might be a little long for me initially, but I'm actually surprised at how interested I was all the way through. This is great and I would love to see more "deep dives" on developers like this. Great work!

[@Moonsbro]

now this is that good shit i fork up money every month for

[@minnmax]

Now THIS is the kind of supporter we like to see! Thanks so much, enjoy the podcast version!

[@Martmij07]

3:00:19 that’s super interesting

[@petrikhorr]

3:00:09 literally disproves everyone saying that ea "ruined the franchise" and yet basically everybody still thinks it. i'm exaggerating a bit everywhere but still.

[@Azurethewolf168]

It’s insane how widespread the myth still is, the whole idea comes from how EA has treated companies in the past and always wanting to have some underdog to root for. Popcap in many people’s minds is a legendary company that was tarnished by a big evil corporation when in reality popcap basically destroyed themselves over their dumb decisions and more corporate work ethic over the years. It went from a company that would make new games every year with a team who loves working there, to a company that solely makes pvz games that look horrible.

[@boukevanderstok8474]

Ohboy, am I in for a treat tonight!

[@minnmax]

Enjoy!

[@srqsoccer]

I wasn't sure if I'd be interested in a 4 hr long "history of.." but this was fantastic! I love that you asked the questions that others may not be comfortable asking and got the full scoop of what went down at PopCap. I would love more "Deepest Dives" into other game industry mysteries. MinnMax has quickly become my favorite gaming focus content creators.

[@minnmax]

Thank you so much! Any help spreading the word is appreciated!

[@ruphio26]

So, SO good. Absolutely wonderful. Thank you Ben - and thank you everyone who was willing to share this story

[@ratak06]

I hope this blows up I'm so excited to watch this!

[@minnmax]

Thanks! Any help sharing is appreciated!

[@JollyGoodThen]

The ending song as a stand-alone would be view central and EZ to share

[@minnmax]

That's a really good call. We'll do that.

[@dmtgallardo]

You guys are amazing. Congratulations on this achievement. Please, keep it going, keep it rolling, keep pushing! MINNMAX!

[@daavpuke]

To this day, PopCap Dublin are still the best studio I've ever worked with, by some margin. Everyone I've ever talked to there had such a personal, amicable approach about games. It did so much to destigmatize the position their games were in. You could tell that they just really cared about games, above all. It's the reason I've still held on to their promotional gear. I was heartbroken when it closed. Thanks for this interview series.

[@minnmax]

Thanks for watching and for the feedback!

[@pimvda]

Fantastic documentary! Great to see/hear the history of the studio throughout the years. And that final part was joyous :)

[@raulg22]

I just finished listening to the whole thing. Amazing work like always Ben, congrats.

[@minnmax]

Thanks Jack, tell a friend!

[@MellyWilliams]

thank you for hosting this! love popcap games ;__;

[@Ikine557]

Alchemy was my JAM. It all came down to the music. I could listen to it forever.

[@RadicalGirl]

What a treat! I'll be listening to this tonight for sure!

[@RetroBreak]

Popcap was amazing! Looking forward to listening to all of this!

[@ih8l8nc]

Jeff Green from Min/Max consulting has his timeline off by quite a bit. Jason Kapalka worked at Total Entertainment Network for a good couple of years (maybe as many as 3-4) after leaving CGW before founding Popcap (and thus making Bejeweled) and I know because I worked with him there. So he didn't leave the "lucrative world of game journalism" to make puzzle games, he left to work for a multiplayer gaming startup which already had a good 30 or so employees when he was hired!

[@garthchouteau1983]

ih8I8nc is correct... I too worked with Jason at TEN for several years, THEN he left (just before TEN was acquired by, you guessed it, EA) to start PopCap... in fact, I remember the day Jason escorted John Vechey and Brian Fiete through the TEN offices after flying them out to SF: John and Brian looked like they were still in high school, and TEN was in the early stages of morphing from hardcore multiplayer gaming service to what would become Pogo.com, the first commercial 'casual games' website... As they walked by, I thought "oh jeez, this is truly the end, we're now hiring high schoolers to make these so-called 'online parlor games,' the end is nigh" and immediately got to work updating and sending out my resume, lol.

[@WahjahMan]

@@garthchouteau1983 I believe y'all a hundred percent, and apologize for any historical inaccuracy. In my head, I guess I conflated two things that were separated by time: 1) Jason telling us he wasn't writing for CGW anymore, and 2) Jason handing us a Bejeweled disc. I blame aging plus legal cannabis for my foggy memory. The bigger point, however, remains: Jason made the absolutely correct call of bailing out of game reviewing to make games....and the world is much better for it.

[@Killitydoom]

I'm listening to the podcast version of this on my commute and it's totally fascinating to hear all of these stories from a developer that kind of moulded what the casual games world would look like. Thank you for making content like this, it's so fascinating and a great record of a huge piece of game history that could have just been lost to history :)

[@minnmax]

That's very kind. Thanks so much, glad you appreciate it!

[@dakota265893]

That was so well put together. Great job, Hanson!

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, Dakota! Tell a friend!

[@NeonGSP]

That PvZ2 story is heartbreaking ngl. To hear that development struggle and the forcement of the producing being kicked out the project.

[@quirkycreature1957]

Great work! I love that you got a lot of different people and perspectives from within PopCap. Exactly what I needed to listen to during work today.

[@minnmax]

Glad you enjoyed it, tell a friend!

[@LeanneMustafa]

Just finished it, what an amazing listen. So fascinating. Please do more of these!

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, Leanne! Any help sharing is appreciated!

[@lukemoonwalker8444]

What a bunch of chill lads

[@wawawalrus]

This was great to listen to while working from home. Definitely helped the day go by faster. That PvZ song at the end was so nostalgic.

[@christianestabrook]

Congrats on this. This is a huge accomplishment!

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, Christian! Any help sharing is appreciated.

[@SerpC]

I love content like this. Please keep doing interviews like this, MinnMax!

[@minnmax]

We'll try! Any help sharing this one is appreciated.

[@RetroBreak]

Finished watching it all earlier, fascinating interviews! I really hope some of the old team decide to get back together without the pressure of making money or a bigger company watching over them! Let's get some more experimental and fun games out there again! :D

[@polyphonique]

Two hours in, and so far so good. Great work!

[@WarpHype]

It took me a few days but I was able to watch the whole thing. I wholeheartedly recommend watching every minute!

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much for watching, Shaun!

[@mongomoves]

this is fantastic. great work!

[@ProPipeProductions]

This is an incredible source of reporting! Its so interesting seeing this side of the industry. I'm sure for some the run time is intimidating, however I greatly appreciate the annotated chapters. MinnMax continues to be one of my favorite places on the internet.

[@minnmax]

Glad you found us, Andy!

[@somethingventured3]

Holy shit, this is so cool! Thanks MinnMax!!

[@galev3955]

OMG I played so many of these games with my family! Brings back a lot of childhood memories.

[@KrisCalkins]

Had to come here after listening to the audio version to give it a like and say this was an amazingly fun listen. Well done Mr. Hanson.

[@minnmax]

Oh wow, thanks so much Kris!

[@Hugop_arts]

What a nice unexpected treat!

[@AveryiSalt]

Thanks for continuing to make long form content! I've always been interested in Pop Cap

[@minnmax]

Our pleasure, any help sharing is appreciated!

[@AveryiSalt]

@@minnmax I've been with you guys since the beginning, and I'm finally going to pull the trigger to become a patron. Keep up the great work!

[@terrypierson8893]

Dang, what a flex! Proud to be a supporter of MinnMax.

[@minnmax]

That's very sweet, thanks! Tell a friend!

[@ARIXANDRE]

Definitive and achieved for eternity! Congratulations, MinnMax!

[@minnmax]

Ha, well thanks!

[@xaviorspirit3513]

WoW!!! Excited to listen with vet the next few days while running!!

[@minnmax]

Enjoy!

[@anthonyzayler5449]

Awesome video as per usual!

[@Swissynopants]

375 likes? probably all ex-PopCap crew Thank you so much for doing this set of interviews. It was a great walk down memory lane. I was also part of the Dublin office for 6 years. Hands down best studio I have worked for. It had it's flaws, for sure, but they were far outweighed by the good times, crew, parties and games. Shared and sub'd btw, keep up the fab work!

[@LazyByName]

Looking forward to this one.

[@profanddevplaygames]

Amazing! So glad to hear this story and see my podcast partner in the video!

[@minnmax]

Thanks for the help lining this up!

[@profanddevplaygames]

@@minnmax It was a highlight of my year! Glad it worked out!

[@xsoujirox]

This is quality stuff. Glad to see how much MinnMax cares about video games. Not just current, but legacy as well.

[@minnmax]

We try, thanks so much!

[@SunniDee22]

Incredibly excited to listen to this. Great work Hansen!

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, Sunni! Hope you enjoy!

[@reecechapling1453]

Hey! This was amazing! I had such a great time listening to it all. My family and I loved playing the classic PopCap games, I have really fond and nostalgic memories of playing Bejeweled with my Mum when I was like, 4 - my favs have gotta be Iggle Pop and Insaniquarium, but there are just so many brilliant titles, Zuma, Hammer Heads, Typer Shark, Talisman, Venice.. I mean I'm pretty much just listing them all. Seriously well put together and thought out, super interesting story!! Looking forward to PvZ 3, whatever that brings! It's a shame that remasters of the classics will never be a thing, unless by fans, as those who compiled the code have gone on to do other (I'm sure even greater) things!

[@minnmax]

Thanks for much for listening to the full story, Reece!

[@Jeorin]

I had no idea Supershigi worked with PopCap on a project! She's awesome! I've been subbed to her KZbin channel for a long time.

[@BeavisOfArabia]

Love Popcap. Thanks for this wonderful interview.

[@minnmax]

Thank you! Glad you found it.

[@SpajkenSpajk]

Finally finished watching this video and man, you deserve so much more recognition. Awesome job with this one. :) Only complaint is that it would be nice to have the peoples names and job titles on screen. I kinda forgot who people were after coming back to the video.

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much for watching, yeah you're totally right. Good call.

[@jutendouji]

This is super interesting. Glad to see folks like Jeff Green again, who I knew from the long gone days of CGW and 1UP. Also, working in the industry myself, it's really cool to see how other companies deal with the every day things. Thanks for this, Ben!

[@minnmax]

Right on, glad you enjoyed the video! Any help sharing is appreciated.

[@markaaronbarrett]

Oh man, working while I listen to this and when I heard Ellen come on I got super choked up. Nostalgia overload. It was a dream to work at PopCap during those golden years. Loved that place, that time, the games we made, and all these wonderful people.

[@minnmax]

Awww, thanks so much for watching!

[@Adrian_Creates]

Wow! Didn’t realize I could care about this story! I mean that in the best way possible! Awesome job! 👏🏼

[@dinny1881]

I love these videos, insightful looks into one of my favorite devs. I play Peggle 2 with my gf still, their games are timeless.

[@Billyman8]

I know they will never remaster any of the Bejeweled games, but they are damn perfect.

[@JoelHop]

Only minnmax could make me watch (and enjoy) a four hour video about a studio I'm not interested in. Hope we can get more oral histories in the future.

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, Joel! Any help sharing is appreciated!

[@TheGamePiece]

Love it Ben, keep up the amazing work

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, will do!

[@sniss]

i am so glad this exists thank you

[@minnmax]

We're so glad you found it!

[@xXsillysussyXx]

sniss!!!!

[@bretbranson7780]

I wish I knew someone in my life who would like this as much as I did😂 Great work on this!

[@minnmax]

Ha, well we're glad you enjoyed it Bret! Any help mentioning it on Reddit or a forum or whatever is appreciated!

[@Pillowp4nt5]

this is fantastic.

[@dougiehockeym8071]

Ben this is great. It’s clear you have a passion for making “real” videos about games and I just wish this stuff would get more attention.

[@minnmax]

Really appreciate the comment, any help sharing and spreading the word is appreciated!

[@Void-se7rx]

3:52:32 the team that used to be with popcap want to get the band back together again

[@ottolehto]

This was incredible. You produce some of the best content on KZbin right now. Looks like I will have to become a Patreon supporter.

[@minnmax]

Oh wow, thanks so much! We're trying our best, so we appreciate the support on Patreon!

[@ottolehto]

@@minnmax Done :)

[@brainfreeze10]

Amazing video

[@snackerslc]

I expected them to talk about Chuzzle, too. Oh well, great interviews! :)

[@josepht5160]

Phenomenal work Ben!

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, Joseph!

[@merkmobile]

This was super interesting!

[@minnmax]

Glad you enjoyed it, John!

[@Silentknight1171]

Wait, These are the guys behind ARC? Holy smokes, I remember joining TEN, and playing ARC for years with my friends. We had a clan and everything! I had no clue that these were the guys who made it. Very cool.

[@wortwortwort117]

The ending made me tear up

[@quanchi6526]

Very nice set of interviews from a lot of different perspectives. One thing I would like to suggest is listing the interviewee's name underneath the video feed, maybe even their previous title. It gets very hard to remember everyone's name after three hours.

[@minnmax]

Yup, that's definitely fair. Thanks for watching!

[@El_Sombrio]

Estas van a ser 4 horas muy interesantes

[@ItsRawr]

¿Lo fueron?

[@dicegameuchiha]

loved the decolonial talk 💯

[@JoshBurcham104]

I live for stuff like this!

[@minnmax]

Ha, thanks so much! We're trying over here!

[@MJ4LGBTQ]

Almost didn't click on it but seemed like a great effort and love put into this video! 😊 And i didn't realize that Plants vs Zombies, Bejeweled, Peggle, etc were the same company, and really good so far

[@minnmax]

Thanks for checking it out, MJ!

[@LolaliciousSmiley]

Burnout Revenge is the best Burnout, so it's no surprise Peggle is so rad.

[@dandon1968]

it was surprisingly fun stories, sort of like high school days stories

[@lukemoonwalker8444]

3:47:47 It is incredibly funny to me after years of "Switch port when?" memes regarding all games to see someone so mature manifesting the same sentiment.

[@MrGoaliegibson]

This is so good.

[@minnmax]

Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it!

[@imeanleafeon]

OH MY GOD FOUR HOURS IM SO EXCITED

[@minnmax]

Also available as a podcast in the Patreon-exclusive podcast feed!

[@ThisIsMrBenShow]

This was beautiful

[@minnmax]

Thank you!

[@ThisIsMrBenShow]

@@minnmax Antytime

[@lambatofa]

Still have a few pairs of PopCap PJs!!!

[@Da.Liar-Pig]

Some "fans" of pvz 1: EA RUIN PVZ 2 WITH MICROTRANSACTIONS Popcap employees at 3:00:19:

[@Azurethewolf168]

In their minds, popcap is still the same one that made all those great childhood games years ago, so part of it is nostalgia. Additionally, people hate EA for its business practices and treatment of companies so of course when something goes wrong they’ll blame EA for it. It’s just using past knowledge and applying it here without a second thought.

[@michaelmoratto]

This is AMAZING. I adore this approach to journalism. Had never even considered how much I wanted to hear about popcap!

[@johnsimon8457]

Interesting how Slack came out of a game studio while popcap also had Burrito. I think a hundred other companies had internal chat tools but none of them were ever productized. You talk about absolutely silly levels of recurring revenue ... that's Slack. I was at PAX Prime/West 2010 when they were handing out paper traffic cones for PvZ. PvZ finally convinced me to actually sign up for Steam - which is an insane concept, but indies really weren't a thing people talked about

[@alsopsarchive5384]

The constant ad in the middle of the screen is insanely annoying.

[@minnmax]

Noted.

[@podbod25]

Doesn't bother me, personally

[@Peebly]

Quick someone start a debate so the algorithm picks this video up!!

[@minnmax]

No, you!

[@JonnyBriers]

You've gotta be kidding me!

[@KyleHilliard]

Everyone is wrong!

[@TheMoviePlanet]

I've never heard of PopCap and never played any of their games but this was still interesting and well put together. Great job, Ben!

[@minnmax]

Oh wow, that's an incredible perspective. Thanks so much!

[@thedarkknight221]

Would have loved to see Jeff green interviewed

[@minnmax]

Did you watch the video? ;)

[@thedarkknight221]

@@minnmax Not the whole thing yet. Just didn't see his name on the interview list. If you got him, good grab. Just moved up my watch later list.

[@LolaliciousSmiley]

This is a classic feature.

[@minnmax]

Thanks! Glad you found it.

[@josephdowdy1935]

Great, now im hooked on Peggle again. Thanks for the hard work, Hanson!

[@minnmax]

Our pleasure, thank YOU!

[@ia2604]

1:33:30 - Skpow!