A Talk On New Depression Treatments-Carlene MacMillan, M.D. and Owen Muir, M.D.

[@mve9999]

Hi Mark. I never comment on KZbin videos but I thought now is a good time. After watching this video the morning it was published, I contacted a local rTMS provider, and have just now begun my month long treatment. Mark, thank you for shedding light in the darkest of places. Watching your videos every morning for years have inspired me in ways I cannot put into words. I am very optimistic that this treatment will allow me to finally move forward, and I have you and many others to thank for getting me here.

[@TheA123321]

Can you use medicare for this treatment?Or how much is it without insthank you

[@owenmuir]

@@TheA123321 Medicare pays once daily on the outpatient setting and as of April 2024 in a few hospitals...MUSC, University of Alabama, and a few other places.

[@Rockin501s]

I'm loving all of the new content of speakers from the psychology field. It's an amazing addition to this already phenomenal channel

[@Janealtalt]

I’m almost finished with my TMS course. I don’t think I’m “cured,” but at the same time, I find myself feeling like I haven’t felt since I was a kid. It’s hard to describe, but I’m remembering how I used to feel before everything felt so heavy. I’m thriving at work, I dumped my abusive partner, I go out more, I look forward to things. For me, it’s changed a lot in a good way.

[@owenmuir]

That's wonderful to hear.

[@jennifermeeker7861]

Good one Mark. Let's figure this $h!+ out!

[@natedaug1]

TMS didn't work for at all. :(

[@GP-hj1ft]

My psychiatrist tried to talk me into TMS and I rejected it for a long time until I was suicidal and was willing to try anything. It pulled me out of my hole and got me fighting again within a few sessions. It's not a permanent fix. It lasts longer for some than others, but I credit it with helping save my life.

[@Inertia888]

That is fantastic, I love hearing about people finding ways of treating and managing depressive disorders without SSRIs and their family of heavily pushed mood stabilizers. Those antidepressants did make me not feel, but they made me not feel. Still living in a colorless world. Felt no love. Couldn't connect with people. Couldn't feel. I am currently using polyphase audio waves to train my brain to enter specific states, at specific times of day. It's very much brain wave training. I listen to a Delta or Theta-Delta wave sync every night, while I'm asleep, and if I feel like I'm ignoring my day, I listen to the frequencies that sync with Alpha waves. Been doing it for a while now, and it for sure has helped.

[@NN-ht1lp]

Thanks Mark.

[@carolseven3802]

Big pharma will of course heavily find pushback

[@marylougeorge9890]

That’s wonderful! My sister has had TMS with great results. Her protocol was a session a week for so many weeks and back again as necessary several months later.

[@marylougeorge9890]

@@Inertia888😊👏👏👏❤️

[@johnruvolis874]

The treatment not being affordable for most people is the problem.

[@KMc-cw3qt]

The real modern history of mental health treatment 👍

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

The once daily version is covered by insurance right now. We agree that this accelerated version needs to be covered and are working on those advocacy efforts.

[@kookykreek]

Exactly! It’s like waving food under the nose and then pulling it back……too bad!

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

We have to advocate for the coverage of effective treatments! The same will be true with the psychedelics when FDA approved and is also true of IV Ketamine which most payers do not cover. We do this advocacy but it helps if more people join these efforts- call your insurance company, local politicians, your HR department.

[@emptyplenty4730]

The mountains and woods are free.

[@ThePortalTheory]

One woman said she had not seen her husband smile in years. His first treatment he smiled. Life changing. ❤ great video. This will definitely help people.

[@stevensonalderworstmd329]

okay but pay attention to the guy's tone in this video...does that sound like a person who has any depth of feeling. he's just another specialist piece of garbage. he probably took a ton of adderall to get his PHD. he probably has a business interest w/ this sh*t too. like he's not a good guy at all if you broke down how he presents himself. he comes across like a corrupted specialist, self interested

[@juliawhite3373]

I am a TMS tech at a clinic which does both TMS and ketamine. Seeing TMS pull people out of a lifelong depression with little to no side effects along the way is truly a joy. It’s covered by insurance if you do the daily, 36 session course (a long commitment but worth it for many). I urge anyone who has been on medications for years with no success to seek of a TMS clinic near you!!

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Thanks for the work you do! Great, compassionate technicians are an important aspect of the treatment. Where is your clinic?

[@Partybob1]

If TMS is not covered by the only insurance plan I can afford (cause I’m depressed like a lot of people) WTF do I do? This miracle is out of reach and so I stay on meds that make my life barely tolerable. TMS is too much false hope.

[@TheLissaknows]

Is this available in the Uk?

[@gwendolynfajardo3937]

What about ketamine?

[@laural1784]

I did that and it worked for awhile for me then stopped helping me,sadly. It's a real commitment. Hope no longterm damage to my brain( tms). It was painful also. Glad it helps others.

[@doubled3962]

It’s so exhausting, trying to survive in a body .. that the mind is trying to kill you …

[@toocozycanti]

What makes h feel like kind is trying to kill tou tho fr ? Not judging. Just u don’t feel like it wants to help but just can’t ?

[@sarashakeri6561]

Well put & in such an interesting (for lack of a better word) way…

[@catherinepraus8635]

I totally get what you saying it a constant battle and the mind is a dangerous neighborhood at time

[@gypsyman1939]

This is only for those who can: I found that the only thing to help my mind when it’s attacking itself is to have s*x as much as you can at that time of depression or anxiety and it helps me every single time. I’m the owner of where I work and I will drive home in the middle of paving a driveway 30 mins away just to do that and it works every time. I would encourage all of you to try it. You have nothing to loose.

[@eileenmariehennighan9883]

I understand that could enhance endorphins and serotonin. I have no interest in sex when Im in depression.

[@kdeloris2225]

Mental health is so important thanks for shining a light on it.💡

[@reneelibby4885]

In my opinion, one of the most important interviews that you have ever done. Shines a ray of hope for those with mental illness. Psychiatry is really still in its infancy, especially as far as neuroscience. Of course our system fights it every step of the way by making it affordable only for a small percentage of people and not mainstreaming things where Pharma , hospitals and rehabs aren't raking in the money long term. Frustrating, sad and unacceptable, but that's the reality. When will we as a society wake up to how vital mental health is? That they are brain diseases, not a failure of will or fixable by lifestyle?

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

There are many reasons to be hopeful after decades of underwhelming treatments. Thanks for watching!

[@annpane1227]

Something interesting I noticed. I had some bad trauma happen in 2010 that effectively changed my life. In 2011 or 2012 I had an MRI of my head for bad headaches. I found that after the MRI that I was less depressed, it was like having a new lease on life. It was a very noticeable feeling that was very positive. I know magnetics works even if applied differently as like my experience. @@CarleneMacMillanMD

[@ArmandoTarziu]

Besides the false sabt(Sunday),and teh wide spread of spiritism(yog, karma, ouiaj bord, reiki,hipnosis), last final decie wil be ,atht satn himslef wil come as Hrist, sayinghe changed teh day of rest! And this decie wil be poerful for al those who dont read teh Bible for themseles,as it wil be flowed by great miracles and healings,everywere he wil apear! But teh Bible dosnt live su without wraning to this and cleaerly says aht when Jesius coems " All eyes wil see Him" ,so everyone on earth, wilse satans fake only here and there! -read Mathew chaoter 24! Another direct warning to teh spirit f the anthirst is in 2 Joan 7" anyone who says atht Jesus doenst coem in flesh/body, is teh spirit of the anthirst"! And i would sugest you get abook caled " The great cintroversy" by Ellen White, is ana mazing book, wich depicts the war betwen good and evil,from Lucifers afl til teh very end,and in the last few chapters, is everything about what we live, and whats toc eom, pure undiluted truth, with valiuble insights! God bless you all!

[@patriciahooper3665]

Hallelujah! Thank you very much. ❤

[@alexrodriguez7191]

THANK YOU MARK FORT THIS AND THESE TWO ARE AMAZING!!! GRACIAS GRACIAS GRACIAS❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤

[@bruh1077]

Depression is a thick blanket that lays over your mind. Like a massively gloomy day. Every now and then a ray of sunshine will show through the clouds and hit your face, for a moment or two you’ll feel happy, then as quick as it came it’ll go away.

[@sarahblind6067]

TMS saves lives. Thank you for bringing it to light.

[@sellingpeck]

Because of this I have found a local TMS treatment center and have signed up for a free consult. Thanks

[@StephieGsrEvolution]

Please research side effects. Depsite how much they tell you there isn't any, that's not always true.

[@sellingpeck]

Well I’ve now had two weeks of daily treatment and feel great so far. If there are side effects down the road it’s better than death I figure.

[@ashleyshingleton982]

I have treatment resistant depression. CPTSD, anxiety, ADHD. I was set up to begin esketamine treatments and then boom! They tell me as of that week they are no longer taking Medicaid. I think a huge barrier for many people is going to be financial. I would have loved to be able to try something that has such wonderful results.

[@oneluxelife]

thank you for this-I have 40 years of trying to find a treatment that works. I have major depressive disorder and have no where else to turn. This has given me hope

[@mylifecap]

Got a feeling this one hit a lot of people that watch these. Thank you, Mark. ❤ #neverholdback#softwhiteunderbelly #lifecap

[@claudiapena3954]

This was extremely fascinating to listen to. I will be looking into this

[@ThomasLaster-e8s]

These two are doing everything for all the right reasons. I met Dr. Muir at a conference in Chicago and have followed him for about a year. I don't know his wife but you can tell she is as passionate and sincere as Dr. Muir is and they both care deeply about helping people get better.

[@owenmuir]

Nice of you to say

[@alexisxcalderon]

I personally have met with Owen, I know how hard he works. My mom is dating his friend who set up the interview, Owen is great and TMS has benefited me substantially. I hope more people talk about it!

[@owenmuir]

Great to hear! 🙏

[@I_AM_the_ITGuy]

My mom saw depression as a choice and as a result had life long untreated depression. She passed away three months ago from the nightmare of vascular dementia. I have learned that untreated or treatment resistant depression puts you at risk for cardiac disease and subsequent dementia. Vis-a-vis: depression kills.

[@carolseven3802]

I’m sorry, that must have been so hard to live through.

[@lorianne4608]

That’s awful. So sorry

[@leesahpink701]

I'm sorry. I know people who also think you can snap out of depression. I have people close to me who also struggle. It's definitely not something that can be flipped off like a switch.

[@marylougeorge9890]

I’m sorry about losing your mom and having watched her suffer for many years. There still is a lot of people who believe depression is a choice. Very sad situation for the depressed person because of the guilt and condemnation they live under. Mostly from themselves. 💔😢

[@hillyterrain5582]

So many ‘swept under the rug taboo’ subjects Generational hurt coming from a failure to think Pay attention globul pop has doubled in 50 years It starts &ends with a human bond. Blessmomsheart

[@horsejocky5819]

I am a nurse,they have been working on this for years,if it really rocked,imagine what it could do for mental illness on the streets,many people on the streets are mentally ill

[@amusedBYfools]

And the rest are hiding in their homes or sleeping next to you.

[@Tindiil]

Mark, more interviews like this please. As someone with multiple diagnosed severe anxiety disorders, ill take all the info I can get. Im going to contact a local place here that does this and try it. Im desperate. If I hit rock bottom ill contact you for an interview. My life would make a good interview. It has almost everything.

[@TheManzano28]

I recently completed 37 standard TMs treatments and seen an improvement. I am working closely with my psychiatrist and it's been a positive treatment option. I am glad these doctors are speaking of this treatment option.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Great to hear that!! Thanks for letting everyone know. Was it covered by insurance? Hopefully yes since once daily

[@TheManzano28]

@CarleneMacMillanMD Yes I had tried different medications over the years and I was in a dark place. My doctor was concerned that I was already on a high dosage of medication and nothing was working. I did have to travel away for two and a half months because the nearest treatment center was three hours away. I had a co-pay for each day of treatment. I rented a room which allowed me to benefit from this treatment. I honestly would not have been able to participate in this treatment option if we were not for health insurance. It's great you are sharing the benefits of this treatment option for depression. I have PTSD from early childhood trauma and struggle with severe anxiety. The depression became more prevalent after situational depression episodes. I was severely triggered three years ago and went down the rabbit hole. I was in survival mode!! I could manage my life on a minimal level than struggle to get out of bed. The feelings of hopelessness were extremely scary because it was hard to decipher my value. I was desperate during lucid periods to find something that would help me get it together. I jumped at this this option when my NEW psychiatrist suggested this treatment option.

[@alice5515]

I had TMS and a month later, had a seizure. So now I’m epileptic and on anti convulsants for life. Everything comes with a risk

[@RadRedhead222]

I'm so sorry to hear that!

[@sylwiakowalczyk3270]

Thank you for sharing this. This is so important to hear from people who have had the treatment. I’m so sorry it happened to you. I don’t even know what to say. All the best to you ❤

[@marylougeorge9890]

If you’re in a state where pot is legal, research Charlotte’s Web from Colorado and Parkinson’s treatment with MJ. A friend of mine was having seizures and I would rub a little Simpson oil in coconut oil on her gums and her seizure would stop. Seriously.

[@dandelionkisss]

Was there any benefit from it at all?

[@katherinetreiman9480]

Fascinating! This treatment approach sounds so promising for many

[@morgenmachen2400]

These two are brilliant. What theyve managed to learn and study is beyond most of our understanding. But the way they've learned to EXPLAIN these complexities is incredibly impressive.

[@joannerudolph5028]

Agree ! Sounds hopeful….

[@craigslist6988]

ehhh I disagree. from their explanation you might feel good, but that's a bit scary since you don't understand what they're doing any more than if they told you they're using magic dust and waving a wand to align your chakras to pump serotonin to your big toe where it is needed most. The takeaway for you should be they're trying new things, they're hopeful, and that is it. For the academic field I would tell you they're very aggressive, or to spin it positively let's say outwardly passionate, about TMS. As an academic, most people see that as a warning sign they are not being scientifically objective. Most academics are excited about whatever work they do otherwise they would do something else, but proselytizing it while you're still working on it is suspicious.

[@Kevin-ii7gy]

These two are absolute imbeciles

[@LoloO42]

I agree. Sounds like a lot of gibberish. Also, Google them. A lot of VERY angry former patients. 😮

[@rong2912]

Being depressed over a 3 hour time difference is so precious haha. What a fraud.

[@marylougeorge9890]

Drs Carlene and Owen, thank you for doing this interview. Thank you for explaining that treatment for depression isn’t less important than treating a heart attack. I appreciate your educating us on TMS which I might have been skeptical of had my sister not have had TMS treatment with success. Know that you’ve helped a lot of people open up to getting help because of your interview. I appreciated your sharing the reasons you entered psychiatry. Much love and appreciation from a Michigan success story ❤❤❤

[@BreannAntonsen]

I'm happy for you and your sister. I miss my sister and family due to my mental illness. I'll try a new therapy soon and pray it works.

[@marylougeorge9890]

@@BreannAntonsenPlease read my other comment. There is some information which might help. Thank you for your kindness.❤ I was very fortunate to have had people who loved me just as I was. Even though most of my family treated me like a looser. I understand. It’s not about you. It’s about their ignorance.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Thanks for sharing your family’s success story! More people need to share so we understand better what works for whom.

[@marylougeorge9890]

@@CarleneMacMillanMD Exactly. If it weren’t for my sister’s success with TMS, there’s a good chance I would have doubted it works. Genetic testing helped get my meds adjusted without a bunch of trial and error.

[@emmshipp]

Thank you for this work your doing from someone whose had a family history of depression, alcoholism, ADHD etc…you both care so much…

[@MissBliss818]

MacMillan, m.d. and muir, m.d., you two compliment each other very well. I can tell you both support each other - keep up the amazing work.

[@brendaandjohnroark-rivera7710]

I think the field of psychiatry is really interesting right now. TMS, Ketamine treatment and more! When you have a family member who is suffering, who has hope again, its EVERYTHING!

[@craigslist6988]

tbh I hope mushrooms get approved sooner than later, might as well get to try a treatment that's fun

[@astralfluxaf]

@@craigslist6988yeah frfr it’s not a joke that micro dosing works… it really really works. So does individual focused intentions large doses! I bet we would have had these answers a lot sooner if it weren’t for stupid drug laws. 🤦‍♀️

[@Inertia888]

The Universities, research teams, chemists, and personal doctors, should have been allowed to study these things many decades ago. Better now, than never, and I am so very grateful that finally, at least some progress is being made. But, we should have people retiring right now, with an entire career's worth of knowledge to pass on to the folks who are just now discovering the basics. I am grateful that it is happening. But it's hard to not hold a grudge, after so much wasted time, and for no good reason, other than, in my opinion, to stifle any competition for Pfizer.

[@fellzer]

Drug addicted degeneracy. Becoming dependent on a drug that melts your brain to make you "happy". K.

[@amber76OH]

I am so proud of these two. I truly hope im fortunate enough to be able to try one of these treatments, soon. Ive felt this way for far too long.. Thank you for bringing them, Mark 🖤🤍

[@SuperTooncesthecat]

Great video! Please have them on the channel again to help the viewers understanding what is happening to the people being interviewed suffering from depression.

[@silent_day]

I absolutely love their enthusiasm and the work they do. Excited to see the future of these treatments!!

[@rong2912]

Yeah but they seem naive and ignorant.

[@jmnjanne]

I went thru 35 sessions of TMS. It didn’t work for me, I believe it made me worse and it was a traumatic experience to go in for treatments 5 days a week. I still wonder about the long term side effects..I wouldn’t be surprised if they are bigger than we think. I am grateful it has helped people too🙏

[@klawiehr]

I’m so glad to have heard this talk. Never heard of TMS and knowing that it works (and how it works) was eye-opening.

[@jimmywong8867]

My depression came back after 2,5 year taking pills and recovery, it is such a wonderful thing to get to know TMS. Amazing, new hope.

[@saudigold50]

Strength training, cold-water swimming, adequate hydration, quality magnesium, fresh blueberries, walnuts, turmeric, fatty fish (wild-caught salmon), raw honey, organic green tea. *A hobby is imperative*

[@hlolypop]

All of this, plus mold mitigation. This all helped me and I had daily anxiety and a hundred other symptoms.

[@melancholyman369]

Definitely, it's like you need to do something to feel alive. I remember Joey Deiz saying that ppl who don't do things are the living dead, he doesn't care what you do just be interesting.

[@007janerussell]

⁠@@hlolypopwhat was your protocol for mild mitigation?

[@familylifescienceeducation5227]

So glad you added this comment.

[@conniehanses]

Have an autoimmune disease, so have done exactly this..💙🌎

[@EternalBliss1977]

I am bipolar 1. Tried everything under the sun. A couple of years ago, I was diagnosed with ADHD. I was suicidal for 2 years. Once prescribed ADHD meds I am down from 15 pills a day to one mood stabilizer and my ADHD pill. Life changing!!! I am happy and a productive member of society.

[@doorsheets2637]

Gwen was one of my all time favorite guests. Would love a follow up some day. These mental health videos are fascinating and inspirational for us dealing with depression/other mental health issues. Thanks as always, Mark ❤

[@Last_Chance.]

I wish I could afford this for my daughter. It absolutely breaks my heart that she has so much trouble with anxiety and depression. I am going to deeply look into this and see what I can figure out. I would do absolutely anything to see her be happy.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

The once daily version is covered by insurance for depression so maybe that could be an option for your daughter. We are working to get the multiple per day covered

[@Last_Chance.]

@@CarleneMacMillanMD thank you so much for all that you do

[@kimberlyf4888]

Look into Chris Palmer and metabolic psychiatry.

[@marylougeorge9890]

My sister had TMS with a different protocol but it sure helped her. Her insurance did cover her treatments. ​@@CarleneMacMillanMD

[@marylougeorge9890]

@@hddwd8006I’m sorry. Have you talked with your doctor? Asked to see a psychiatrist or therapist?

[@zakkcrlss6307]

Long time viewer - 1st time poster, from Baja California, Mexico .... Just want to say thanks to Mark for this interview, as a long-time sufferer of crippling depression and anxiety thanks to this video I got an intro as to what TMS is about, and the capabilities and possibilities of this type of treatment. After watching this I went and googled trying to find a TMS center close to me and I'm happy to say that I'm on my 1st week of treatment (6 week protocol for depression, complementing my SSRI treatment) and amazed of how awesome I've been feeling, brain fog is clearing and dissipating, it's easier to get up in the morning, ruminating thoughts are kept to a minimum, easier to start concentrating and being productive, happiness sticks around more and is easier to find .... can't wait to experience how I feel at the end of week 4. If you are thinking about trying this type of treatment ..... I can just say go ahead and DO IT. Thanks again Mark.

[@zakkcrlss6307]

.... as a music lover I loved the references to Kurt Cobain and Steve Albini as well :D

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

So wonderful to hear this!!!! Makes my day and thanks for sharing your experience

[@zakkcrlss6307]

@@CarleneMacMillanMD just wanted to give an update ... just finished this week my treatment and all I can say is that in hindsight I can't believe how messed up I was before the TMS. I complemented my current medical treatment with TMS therapy, and the difference is night and day. What my doctor told me is that I'm attacking the disease on all fronts now. Been through some challenging times both personally and professionally in the past couple of weeks and I've never felt as resilient and enthusiastic about life, the future, myself and my abilities to move forward. I have my post treatment review with my doctor in a couple of weeks and will most likely will continue with some maintenance sessions to avoid a relapse at all costs (I relapsed very badly this past December before taking the TMS). Forever grateful to you guys for putting this in my radar.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

@@zakkcrlss6307 so glad to hear this!! Please spread the word so more can be helped and it means to much to know thus video is helping people like you learn about TMS.

[@janetpersons7647]

Here's a little ditty about what the medical establishment has ,for the most part, turned into these days. I had pain on my lower left side. Doctor runs tons of tests. Nothing is coming up. So she says let's ... put you on anti depressants, I have samples. I said that I wasn't depressed and had no history of it. She pushed again. I was like nope. Went home and was like what have I done different. Well I had stopped eating meat and was eating alot of cheese. Stopped the cheese. Pain gone. She never asked about my diet. Went through similar with allergy issues. Here's a gazillion drugs and inhalers. Never addressed removing exposure to possible allergens. So yup.

[@StephieGsrEvolution]

That's because some antidepressants help with neurological pain management.

[@janetpersons7647]

@@StephieGsrEvolution It was the cheese. Doctor never asked about my diet. Or had anything changed. Just went straight to all the invasive testing and the pills. That is the state of most doctoring these days.

[@belladonnapearl9066]

I am so excited about this treatment. My husband is bipolar and majorly depressed for years. He is zombified on his current meds. I heard about the Ketimine and we're going to find out about that and now this info too at his next appointment. I am really hopeful. My husband is borderline zombified on like 10 pills a day. They are giving him the Parkinson side effects. Thes info is greatly appreciated. Wonderful video!

[@chuckdesmith]

Dr. MacMillan and Dr. Muir do a fantastic job explaining the benefits of TMS. This is so needed in the First Responder community!!

[@owenmuir]

Thank you for highlighting the importance for first responders

[@Nxsta125]

This was a very enlightening and also a relief towards mentally wellness. I cannot wait till it sparks in SA.

[@TammyGiorgi]

I hope this gets out there real soon!!!!! Keep the push on! Thank you!!!! 🙏

[@VanessaMachado-s8f]

Such a great interview. I am excited about what is to come with TMS and how it can reach more than those who are "well off." I hope that the results of this data allows for this treatment to be covered by most insurances well before people are trying 10+ medications. Thank you so much Mark for this!

[@student22044]

Great interview, thank you for sharing these treatment updates, finger crossed they become accessible to everyone🤞🏻Both your energies are so sincere and positive, it was a joy to listen to ❤

[@heidiclements887]

Sooooo agreed!

[@deborahbasel184]

Loved this conversation. There are great trials currently taking place to treat mental illnesses. I am currently 11 months into remission. After 9 years of severe Major Depression. I had already decided last year, that TMS will be my next go to treatment rather than high doses of SNRI.

[@rdw2457]

Excellent interview & all the more appropriate given the number of addicts you interview… to imagine how many of them could benefit incredibly from the right treatment. Thank you.

[@amykenley4668]

My daughter and I have been suffering for years and I feel like I did it to her. Both of us have crippling depression and and can never seem to finish things. I would like to know what it feels like to be happy again. Nothing is exciting and I have watched my beautiful daughter just fall deep into her depression and moods.I am worried about both of us cause we are all we have and this video is very promising to me for the future! Thank you both so much!

[@threadgrassone]

Love hearing that there’s hope for depression treatment that works, even if it’s not totally available yet. The needle is moving.

[@DaddyPants]

I've worked with countless patients getting ECT at a local medical facility I regularly worked with. A lot of them told me it changed their life. I don't think I know of a place around here that offers tms.

[@Say_What_the_What]

Great interview! So helpful to know that there is finally new treatment out there and more to come!

[@gloriaotto1066]

Love this direction for this channel. This is educational and hopeful. I’m really hopeful insurance will cover this before long.

[@ambera.7668]

I absolutely love these two and found their interview so interesting. I've been on antidepressants since I was 17 and I'm now 36. I've never heard of this type of treatment and am so intrigued. I would love to see more interviews like this!

[@nailpro109]

I’m on treatment 27. TMS saved my life.

[@dandelionkisss]

How often do you get them? Also, do glad to hear that 🙂

[@nailpro109]

@@dandelionkisss I went 5 days a week for 3 weeks. Then I went down to 3 days a week. Then I’ll go twice and so on.

[@ponyorat]

This is so informative! Love your work mark!

[@Addeatt]

The reaction to the insurance coverage was priceless. A+ for the unfiltered reaction.

[@7mariepierre]

I wish the psychiatrist that I’ve seen years ago would have said the treatments failed you instead of telling me I was so crazy that I was making myself react to medication to not take them. 🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ Mind you, after she said that, I never went to see her again and I consider her as being the crazy one. 🤣🤣🤣 Some people don’t know about the medical condition that is called hypersensitivity to medication. My grandma was diagnosed with it and that’s the day I understood why any medication I take is a problem to me. It is also why this kind of treatment is so interesting because they don’t involved medication at all.Hope it will become more accessible with time. Thank you for this great interview!

[@marylougeorge9890]

You are correct! That “professional” was 100% crazy! There’s Several of them out there. Scariest is when you know them personally!😳😱😭 Have you heard of genetic testing for depression meds? Helps the dr eliminate ones that won’t work for you while showing which ones could be successful. Look into Gene Site.

[@emilycurtis9547]

This was absolutely amazing to watch! I have struggled for so long and it's wonderful to know that there might be another option! Also, wonderful to see such passion and excitement for knew possibilities in this feild of study. I wish I lived closer to them

[@BlackLungRandy]

Haven’t watched the full video yet but for those suffering from depression TRY EXERCISE. Studies show improvement of depressive symptoms even after a simple easy walk. I’m writing a scientific literature review currently on the effects of exercise on depression and it’s really positive stuff guys! And if you’re reading this, I love you!

[@owenmuir]

I did a review of waking data on my newsletter, the frontier psychiatrists -- it's remarkable data!

[@StephieGsrEvolution]

If someone has severe depression to the point they are considering TMS, it takes a lot more than exercise to help, IF they can even get enough energy to do it.

[@Melissaxorenee]

MARK -- MORE COVERAGE ON THESE TOPICS PLEASE. THANK YOU

[@TeloMeaningEnd]

This is the best episode of this show I’ve seen

[@murphymomof9]

Excellent. I really appreciated this interview. Thank you, all.

[@pamelabalt3731]

Mind blowing 🤯 exciting, inspirational and soooo interesting. True hero’s fighting for mental health (all three of you) thank you 🙏

[@lindsay5305]

Fear of failure is worth resolving

[@dayner989]

Like being not scared hmmm 🤔 sounds interesting

[@beckymellon8135]

Wow!!!! I’m checking my area right now. I hope it can help with the chronic pain that definitely contributes to my depression and anxiety.🤞🤞🤞

[@barikitchens6383]

I’m a chronic pain patient myself, it would be amazing to be able to get out from under the pain and it definitely contributes to depression.

[@beckymellon8135]

@@barikitchens6383 I’m with you , I’ll text the info I find out if it seems promising

[@barikitchens6383]

So enlightening. What a great interview. This could help so many people. Thank you ❤

[@tsrottweilers]

LOVED, LOVED , did I say, LOVED this one!! ABSOLUTELY positively important work being done in this field by them and I was enthralled listening. Rebecca would be a good candidate, if only....... THANK-YOU for doing this video.

[@stephkoufman]

TMS is not magical but it works and has huge benefits. I have had side effects from medications my whole life even if a couple help. TMS is all encompassing,everything improves for me. I’m not preoccupied with debilitating pain and suicide. But,for me,tms is not done to me. I must continue to exercise,work(paid and/or volunteer)and push my interests making art letting it be the best it can be. With all this said the biggest benefit is the ability to carry on and make new memories. So, find a practice that will let you go back after the initial treatments if needed and feel better. The kind of better you don’t know yet. Thanks for the great interview! It included all the important things. The dynamic duo,Carlene Macmillan md and Owen Muir md are the smartest and most compassionate docs around and will go the distance for you. Fermata is the practice I go to.They rock !!!!!

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Thank! Very eloquently put and great tips. We are happy to help❤

[@KraftyKc]

This is hope. Loved watching and hearing this. 😍 I'm off of all these meds but still have problems. I don't want the drugs any more. All the drugs do is make you blah so no change really. This is absolutely awesome. ❤

[@MelandRandy]

You should try ketamine. It has 98% success rate for depression when given by an experienced doc not someone that is simply doing it to make money.

[@kimclayton7728]

This is so encouraging!!! Thank you for this interview!

[@emmanuelphillip4683]

Great channel love Mark. I'm only a few minutes in and I already think these people are far more credible in the field of neuroscience then the guest from yesterday Sadia Khan who only allegedly has a teachers degree

[@MeCooper]

Um,.. What they're talking about was disproven in the 80s. It's literally pseudoscience based on the idea that magnets are some kind of magical thing,... It has absolutely nothing to do with real medical science.

[@matt_milack]

@@MeCooper It can be the worse pseudoscience ever, and it's still better and more helpful than anything Sadia Khan said.

[@emmanuelphillip4683]

@@matt_milack lol. Agreed

[@emmanuelphillip4683]

@judith346 I agree the two new guests on today's episode seem more shock therapy focused. But I have never come across therapist's, psychologists, or academics in general that give absolute verdicts on such sensitive issues. There is always a degree of caution from an academic when you talk about mental health, relationships and human behaviour. Something fishy was going on when that Sadia Khan can so easily overgeneralise men or women in regards to there behaviors. And you never hear her saying I think or I have come to the conclusion that this or that is correct.

[@craigslist6988]

lol that's a low bar.. a bucket of KFC is more qualified at psychology than that grifter. But yes they are obviously far more qualified.

[@habenomgedey9898]

Excellent in-depth analysis of TMS. In fact I have been suggesting from early day I start treating pt with this Tech product to be first line for the reason all what the clinician have alluded.

[@kimberlysmithcarlson1777]

What Owen says from 43:26 - 44:07 is so eloquently correct about the manner in which people can, in a very real sense, get 'trapped' in their mental illness. I was on multiple psych meds starting at age 18 and can confirm that they only made my mental health worse. Long term psych medication use causes brain injury that nobody wants to deal with or admit happens...

[@marylougeorge9890]

I used to have a word for word memory. I tell you the way you were standing, what you were wearing and repeat the complete dialogue. I lost that ability due to meditation which eased my many years of suffering. I would make the same choice today. So for some, medication does help. It helps us to be able to apply what we learn in therapy to improve the quality of our lives. I’m not for or against meds. I’m for what works for the individual. ❤ I’ve associated my experience with Psyc meds as a type of medication induced ECT.

[@ac_house]

I’ve had a few patients over the years with severe depression try TMS, so far nobody has responded and they move onto Ketamine or something else. I’d like to meet someone who actually responds to this intervention. I see some in the comments so that is encouraging. Maybe the condensed “accelerated” TMS is the way to go.

[@owenmuir]

We are publishing data at this year's clinical TMS Society on highly treatment reFactory individuals who don't respond to traditional TMS, treated with alternate targeting successfully.

[@maisenbrown196]

Great interview and thank you for explaining and wanting to help people feel better...much respect for u both

[@marylougeorge9890]

❤❤❤

[@jayderay2682]

These two have a lawsuit against them for a young girl committing suicide after they allowed her to text them…but then didn’t answer he texts when she was suicidal. RIP Mona

[@A_Walk_In_Their_Shoes]

I am diagnosed treatment resistant. I tried 6 Ketamine infusions in 2020. They unfortunately did not help me any. My next step is TMS. Looking forward to this one!

[@StephieGsrEvolution]

Wow! If K didn't help you at all, hopefully TMS will. 🤞 Usually with severe, refractory, they say deep brain TMS may help, but that isn't approved yet.

[@MelandRandy]

I wonder if they did it correctly. I have studied ketamine and what I have found is that most people are not being treated properly. Most of the docs giving it have not been trained under someone that is an expert in the field. Ketamine when done correctly has a 98% success rate.

[@gwendolynfajardo3937]

Thank for your mission and hard work. ;

[@Kwiattwins]

This almost sounds to good to be true but if TMS works this well it couldn't have come at a better time for our society. Thanks for enlightening me on this amazing new tool for psychiatry.

[@sylwiakowalczyk3270]

“When something sounds too good to be true, it probably is”

[@marylougeorge9890]

@@sylwiakowalczyk3270It worked for my sister..

[@craigslist6988]

@@sylwiakowalczyk3270 yes but when you have nothing anything sounds good. It's an option people should have the freedom to choose to try, with skepticism and understanding that unknown side effects are possible.

[@nes746]

I am sick of doctors pushing antidepressants on me even after I have explained that several types depressed me more, one to the point of feeling suicidal. I am so happy to hear that there is an option, I hope that it becomes available to everyone.

[@kookykreek]

How much does it cost? Several hundred dollars a session, 10 sessions a day. Okay, it’s great that we are talking about a treatment most people can’t afford. 😣

[@moralhealth]

The once daily version is covered by insurance right now. I agree it’s too expensive and that this accelerated version needs to be covered and are working on those advocacy efforts.

[@sylwiakowalczyk3270]

10 sessions a day, so they can buy a bigger house. And we can move to the basement. It’s ridiculous. Once it it affordable for everyone, we can have a talk. Now, it feels like Elon Musk is taking to a homeless dude about a trip to Mars payed by a homeless dude. “I wish upon a star…”

[@moralhealth]

i hear you completely. it’s going to take awareness to push for and advocate for payment models. these two are just doctors not payers.

[@heidiveilleux4833]

Doctors educations and insurance are extremely expensive. Like 10 years of schooling an residency. Blame the game not the players.​@@sylwiakowalczyk3270

[@spiderling88]

What they are talking about around 38:50. When you have autoimmune stuff it's super common for doctors to blow you off and tell you it's all in your head. I think that probably makes depression worse. Living with chronic untreated pain and other physical symptoms, blown off by doctors without any hope of getting better has to cause some depression? Also I have seen my friends with severe depression go to the doctor and have their physical complaints be completely dismissed once doctors see they have a mental health diagnosis.

[@owenmuir]

As a Doctor Who has an autoimmune disease myself, and sees a lot of patience with auto immune diseases, I tend to agree with your assessment that many patients are blown off, because I see that all the time. That haven't been said, relief from those symptoms requires management with both rheumatological interventions and psychiatric interventions some of the time.

[@torontokat54]

Very, very interesting. I am someone who has suffered from depression, anxiety and PTSD since the age of 5. I was not formally diagnosed until the age of 38. I have been medicated, have had various types of therapy and hospitalizations since 1993. I have cycled through almost every anti-depressant medication on the market in Canada. Some of them were used with other ones to try to achieve a relief. Some of them made matters worse. I have suffered from the stigma of having a mental health disorders and generally try to hide all signs for various reasons. Listening to this couple has peaked my interest. It is very interesting and I have researched where this type of therapy is available in Canada and there is one place, thus far. Perhaps with more media coverage, we may see more clinics opening up in the coming years. It is something I would certainly think about as a therapy for myself because depressive episodes are not in the least bit fun or easy to go through and I have never had any successful solution with therapy tor the ongoing PTSD. Thank you once again Mark for bringing interesting and thought provoking interviews to your channel. It is greatly appreciated.

[@heidiclements887]

I couldn't agree with your comment more and I'm sorry what you have had to suffer with. Not that anyone person's experience is the same, but I can relate. Keep on keeping on. You have got this! Here's to hoping it catches on and insurance will cover it.

[@wingnut71]

Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto did a trial of Ultrasonic Brain surgery for Depression a few years back. I have never seen the results published, but I did speak to one of the participants online. Unfortunately it did not seem to help him so he went back a year later for Deep Brain Stimulation and it worked. DBS is invasive and requires long term maintenance so that is not ideal. I was hoping the high intensity ultrasonic surgery results would be a great cure as it is non-invasive and it is permanent, but I cant find the results of the trial online. Maybe you would have better luck since you live there? This type of surgery can work for depression, but currently it is only approved in South Korea.

[@ChristChickAutistic]

I'd really like it if you could interview the folks at Alto Neuroscience. I was in a clinical trial in 2022 for Alto100. It stimulates the vagus nerve, and it changed my life. I had clinical depression for most of my life, and no drug really helped for long. I have side effects with every depression drug I ever took. No wonder, I'm high spectrum ASD as well, so it makes sense that drugs made for the neurotypical brain might not work on a neurodiverse brain like people with autism, ADD, ADHD, dyslexia, Tourette's, etcetera. I'm really glad to see all these new treatments, because there's no "one size fits all" fix for everyone. TMS, ketamine, psychedelics, Alto100, things like these are the new frontier for mental health and I feel proud to have been a part of it.

[@owenmuir]

David Carreon @ acacia trained with the founder of Alto. David is my boss, and a coauthor on the SNT rct. Thanks for contributing to clinical research-- and it's a small world of innovators!

[@ChristChickAutistic]

@@owenmuir Dude, I want more of it, I'm not kidding, it's the best I've felt since I was little, like I'm one with the universe, lol! I've also read a lot about the vagus nerve and how it effects mood, gastrointestinal issues, and pain tolerance, the science doesn't lie. I actually wrote Alto Neuroscience an email, begging to be part of the research again, lol! Too bad I have to wait until 2030.

[@rachelrae860]

I loved this video probably my favorite interview to date It was so important and informative. Thank you for sharing your story Carlene and Owen It was amazing 👏 and Mark thank you for this video❤

[@rdw2457]

p.s. I’d love to hear an interview with mental health practitioners abroad regarding what’s cutting edge where they are. Thanks again❤

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

The Annual Clinical TMS Society meeting will be in London this year- while official SAINT is limited to the U.S. right now regular TMS is available throughout the world. NHS covers it for depression in the UK. Also lots of exciting psychedelic medicine work happening in the UK, Australia etc

[@janetlambe5521]

This talk was really interesting. It's good to know there are potential alternatives to antidepressants.

[@hlolypop]

Even though it's been 7 years off of them I still have side effects of SSRIs. Drug companies AND doctors need to take accountability and admit drugs don't work for the majority of people and actually do more harm than good. Alternative treatments should not be alternative, but they don't make money for the drs and pharmaceutical companies long term. There's always an underlying condition to anxiety and depression. For mine it was MCAS/POTS/hEDS, triggered by a life time of living in mold. I'm now in remission after three years of relentlessly pursuing healing.

[@maryfowles807]

Not necessarily. Mine was triggered by ptsd and sertraline has been a life saver. Based on your comment and the fact that ssri didn’t work you probably never had depression in the first place

[@craigslist6988]

well, keep in mind when you tried SSRIs psychiatrists like these two were talking about them the same way they are talking about TMS now. It's always very enticing that the next thing will be the magic spell that fixes everything, but the road of progress is paved with failure, so it's important to be realistic.

[@RadRedhead222]

@@maryfowles807That's ridiculous. SSRI's don't work for many, many people suffering from depression. I'm very glad it worked for you, but it's not for all.

[@marymurphy1393]

​@maryfowles807 I'm really glad that it works for you. Sertraline was by far the worst medication I've ever taken. It made me lethargic, and severe memory loss. There were days that I didn't know my own name! I asked for months to have it reduced but that never happened. Slowly and over time I reduced it myself and I'm back to myself again.

[@marylougeorge9890]

@@maryfowles807I agree. For me too.

[@matt_milack]

In my opinion, there's no better way for curing depression but living the way you wanna live. I had 9 to 5 job, I was in a long term monogamous relationship, I had dull people for friends and I lived in very boring town. My level depression was ''I'm seriously considering suicide'' level. I completely changed everything from the second sentence and today I simply can't believe that I ever was that depressed guy.

[@reinarae7052]

I don't even know how I'd want to live

[@MeCooper]

I completely agree but these people are actually doing a very old snake oil salesman routine. I'm serious, The routine they're doing first came up in the old west. *I am terrified that this is on here as if it's something that is real.* I get showing everyone's perspective but this is very dangerous.

[@matt_milack]

@@reinarae7052 You wouldn't believe how many people don't, trust me. Realising what you really and truly want is half way of getting there.

[@ThePortalTheory]

I think for you that is awesome, however there are people that have everything good..everything they want... they try what you did yet they cry 24/7. That's the depression they are referring to. The kind of depression that won't allow you to be happy about anything. Breathing hurts. Thank you for your comment because a lot of people need to truly get out of their situations... or both. ❤ to all.

[@matt_milack]

@@ThePortalTheory I agree 100%. There most definitely are people who have depression based on their brain chemistry and that those people most definitely can't cure their depression the way that I did, however, I deeply believe that those people make minority of depressed people.

[@erikliljenwall8185]

I couldn't believe it when Dr. MacMillan said that Kurt Cobain made her interested in Psychology. I can't even describe all the ways that his death affected me and changed my whole life from that point on. In my case, it didn't lead me to find my calling. It made me feel lost and aimless.

[@krazz22]

This is amazing..I see the cost is a big issue but would love to see a chart with cost of medication hospitalization and treatments on a patient VS the cost of a patient doing TMS..the cost of TMS. I would think is less at the end..?.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Yes there have been some papers published on the topic of cost effectiveness over the long term. We will see about getting a chart together like that though.

[@queenjrfb]

THIS IS FREAKING AWESOME! PEOPLE NEED OPTIONS

[@kookykreek]

Unfortunately it doesn’t seem like an option for most. Unless you have a lot of money.

[@sylwiakowalczyk3270]

Exactly my thoughts.

[@colleenraffell4157]

The Brain that changed itself is a fantastic book to help understand the inner dynamics of brain function

[@KMc-cw3qt]

👍👍

[@OsmindHQ]

Wonderful interview with our Chief Medical Officer, Dr. Carlene MacMillan and Dr. Owen Muir. This is a one-stop-shop if you are curious to learn more about breakthrough mental health treatments such as TMS and SAINT.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Yes if any mental health clinicians are watching and looking for an EHR to help them get up and running with TMS and other breakthrough mental health treatments, definitely check out Osmind. We use it in our practice also.

[@eileenbrannan9131]

Thank you so much for sharing this. This has really been enlightening with giving me hope for the future. ❤️

[@adityatyagi4009]

In addition to all the medical professionals who are helping patients overcoming depression and other brain issues, the engineers designing these technologies should be acknowledged as well.

[@marylougeorge9890]

👏👏👏❤️

[@moralhealth]

So glad this narrative is getting out there! I’m a nurse working with these treatments and they change lives!

[@Last_Chance.]

God bless you. I hope you have a beautiful day sweetheart

[@Up_Yours_73]

My 21 yr old daughter suffers intensely with quiet BPD due to years of instability, parents in their active addiction, abusive situations that no child should ever experience, history of being in the abusive foster system - we've been sober for over 10 years now but the damage has been done and left her tormented to the point she barely functions . My heart is so completely broken because her BPD is a direct result of my not being able to live life on life's terms. She is finally opening up to the idea of ketamine tx to help but now there's THIS!!! I have read how well just the initial treatment takes hold . I've researched TMS for BPD and am finding these sessions give just enough relief for a borderline to actually be willing to work on some of the trauma experience and begin the healing process!! I'm in tears this is so mind-blowing!! 😭

[@moralhealth]

There's a tremendous amount of hope! Because I’m in this field I must note it’s important to select doctors who adhere to evidence-based protocols, ensuring the best possible care. Also, remember that you have the option to appeal insurance decisions up to the state level if they won’t cover it. This can be a powerful way to advocate for the coverage you need and a chance to get it paid for. It takes time though. I wish you and your daughter luck and healing!

[@jenniferthomason3431]

I have treatment resistant depression and I’ve just accepted the fact that this is the way life is for me. I wish that I could afford these TMS treatments, sounds like it would be life changing.

[@CarleneMacMillanMD]

Most US insurances cover once daily TMS and there is also Spravato which insurance covers.

[@StephieGsrEvolution]

​@@CarleneMacMillanMD stop telling people most insurance covers it because most don't yet! It takes a lot of failed antidepressants and doctors fighting for them to cover it in most cases even with top tier insurance. I think you are used to treating patients with good insurance. Hopefully, that will change soon.