A Timber Frame Vlog #8: The Knee Brace Explained

[@iceebalboa3177]

The humility you displayed at the beginning was noticed & appreciated. It has to be the most underrated trait in the world today. I know I've experienced my share of disrespect from people simply for being respectful. You keep doing your thing & I'll do my best to follow. I need a friend with this type of knowledge in Dallas. I've forgotten more about vehicles than most people will ever know.Sounds like a fair trade off to me. Lol And it doesn't matter how hard I try to get out of the biz, another dealership pulls me back in.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I'm the same way with HVAC, just can't get away from it. Nice to meet you.

[@wolfa5151]

We are lucky to have a Guy like you, taking the time and effort to explain the essentials, Amazing ! Thank You!

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Thank you

[@really2345]

I realize you produced this six years ago, but thank you for creating such a clear tutorial regarding the braces. As a framer, I never knew what those series of numbers meant on the square. Also, you clearly explained how to place the measurements on the wood. Again, thank you.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Thank you sir. Once you figure a few small things, brace layout becomes old hat.

[@OutoftheWoods0623]

cutting braces tomorrow, had to stop by for a quick re fresher,

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Atta boy

[@robertstephenson9839]

Thanks I’ve purchased a timber frame book but that hypotenuse number is vague in relation to the 1/2” housing on post and beam . Now how do I transfer this to mortise layout ? You must a video ?

[@grebdnulyrag]

Hey Jim, I’d like to see you put a tape and show on the finish brace where the 51 11/16“ lies to give a physical feel for that dimension. And, where the 36” would lie and space.

[@grebdnulyrag]

Oops 50 -15/16”

[@zeper1732]

Hi thank you for video, very educational for me can you make the knee mortise.

[@KamonPlays]

Is it HVAC that you do? It's the nearest I can figure for someone that handles a giant heater and gas leaks. I'll have to have a look at the ForestryForum, which reminds me, a link might be useful in the description. I'm looking forward to the next video! 11:39 Not my fault you didn't hear me! :D

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Ken Andrews I do commercial and industrial HVAC and refrigeration by day and sometimes middle of the night. www.theforestryforum.com

[@OutoftheWoods0623]

cutting braces tomorrow, had to come back for another look,

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Atta boy

[@jameshottinger4331]

well its about time someone actually shows how to lay out the cuts, the measurements like you did, and then cut it out, lots of people on youtube showing how to make different joints ,but dont show how to measure for the cuts ect... thank you very much for the information it was very helpful. keep up the good work, looking forward to more of your vids.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Thank you. There's a good 200 after this one.

[@Fight2BeFreeNeverGiveUp]

Hey Jim, hope all is well, if you remember I asked you a question on another of your brace demo's. Which I asked if 4 x 3 was ok. I have re-ordered, a batch of 6 x 4 inches and happy to of done so. Now I can add the curve for appeal look. Question: I've seen quite a few posts and puzzled to what is the best, having the tenon as you have demonstrated at half cut on one side, or tenon centered. Bearing in mind I am now using 6 x 4. Posts are 6 x 6 and so do I have the reference side on the braces facing to the outside off the building so it's flash with the posts, or is it best centered to the posts and therfore ending with 1" in on internal and external faces of the beam. And would the tenon thickness be 1 1/2" x 5" length and 2 7/8" deep. Appreciate your help as always Jim mate.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Always put the tenon to one side, you will thank yourself later. It just goes smoother and you don't need to worry about two perfect faces. I do remember you quite well.

[@Fight2BeFreeNeverGiveUp]

@@TheTradesmanChannel would love to visit you with my son and see you and your wonderful work . Thanks for your help Jim 👍

[@mikescheve429]

First of all, I have to say I truly love your videos. Stumbled upon your videos while doing a little planning to build a pergola over my patio. Seeing how easy it is to create corner braces using timber framing joints has made me want to incorporate them into my design. Second, as I'm drafting up the pieces and parts for my pergola, there seems to be an error with how the knee brace length is calculated. Since you're insetting the connections in by 1/2" and using the 3/8" setback, don't you need to extend the length of the knee brace 50.91 + 3/8 + 3/8 so the mortise on the post is exactly at 36"? Or did you shift the mortise on the post up to match the knee brace? I hope that's clear, but if not maybe we can connect and I can send you my CAD layouts. A picture is worth a million words, right? Cheers!

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Mike Scheve the idea of the 3/8" setback is to account for the 1/2" housing. So you measure in from the edge 3/8" and the 3/8" line is where you measure your brace length, that way it will be a right fit for your layout. I can do a better video at some point, I'm getting better at the camera work. I appreciate you watching, hope you have a good evening.

[@thomasarussellsr]

You are the only timber framer I've seen the not only puts the entire tenon on one side instead of in the middle, but uses the angle of the slick chisel instead of laying the flat back against the wood when cleaning up the cuts. Is there a reason why you do these things? Is there a difference on load bearing between the side tenon and centered tenon?

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Thomas Russell the tenon to the side of the brace is fairly standard. I do an offset tenon when doing the framing members which is also a standard layout method. When I'm cleaning the joints off with the chisel I hold it like that so that I do not remove too much material from the tenon cheek. When you chisel on the flat side it digs in deeper because the bevel acts as a wedge and will drive the chisel in deeper.

[@thomasarussellsr]

Ok, I was just wondering.

[@jeremyleemakes1272]

Thomas Russell There are a couple reasons for offset tenons. They are much faster to cut and depending on your posts, you can usually set the brace flush with the exterior side of the structure and still have your mortise centered.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Jeremy Lee Makes you have some experience, thank you for watching.

[@jeremyleemakes1272]

TheTradesmanChannel 2017 Thanks for giving us content that isn't on every other channel, as this question proves. I just subscribed this week and there's a lot of good stuff here. Thanks.

[@hughfryer3813]

Brace cutting made simple. Thanks for making this simple to understand. I have a few technical questions. A housing with more depth would have even more bearing surface, but at what depth of housing is there no longer a benefit? If your housing is 1/2” why not come up 1/2” on your brace? Is it because you want room for expansion of the timber? Because of the compression loads on the brace, would hardwood be better to use as brace material or is softwood better for the sake of elasticity?

[@patrickdesilva6193]

@high fryer: 3/8" is one leg of a triangle. Therefore, 1/2" represents the hypotenuse of the same triangle.

[@richardyoung6367]

Hey. Great content on your channel - I subscribed. I'm looking for the follow up to the knee brace video where you show how you layout or transfer the marks for the mortise housing. What I'll be building I wont be able to lay it out on the ground - it will be after it's 15 ft up so I'm curious how you do it so I don't kill myself trying to dink around with it up in the air. Thx!

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

If you don't mind me asking, why are you not cutting the brace mortises on the ground?

[@richardyoung6367]

@@TheTradesmanChannel Mostly because I don't really know what my ending height of the posts will be until I get them stood up and figure out exactly how I'm going to tie it into my roof of my house. If I were smarter I could probably work backwards on the measurements, but I don't even have my concrete footers in place yet. Now that I'm thinking about it I can probably figure it out once I know where those will stop. I don't trust myself doing that much cutting while hanging off a ladder so I'll do all I can to figure it out prior to setting the posts.

[@richardyoung6367]

@@TheTradesmanChannel found a pretty good one on doing the mortise - kzbin.info/www/bejne/f36Wm4R6pZ1qmrc

[@amaliopratti2068]

I hope that your summer is going well. I'm building awnings this summer and I'm noticing that my knee brace shoulders are never quite perfect (off bevel?) and it's driving me nuts! So I was wondering if you ran into this issue? 1. I'm working with accurate 4x4s 2. I'm cutting centered 1.5" tenons. 3. Bevel is at zero and true for all my cuts to make the tenon 4. I'm referencing the same side of the line for cuts. Any ideas? Thank you! Amalio Pratti - Massena

[@idhatemet00]

are you using a square (also verify your square is square, you'd be surprised how often squares, at least from big box stores, are out of square) to verify your saw is at 90 degrees? Never trust the numbers on the angle guide, even for the most high end circular saws.

[@MrCjswim]

Awesome video as always, thanks, Jim

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

You must be going through the list. There is a much better brace video further along.

[@brianfield792]

Thanks for the video, been trying to work out how to do this.starting to get it in my head now,thanks again,brian,uk,

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I wish I was better at the camera work when I did this one, I should do a new one now that I have better equipment.

[@kjamesjr]

Would a stud wall provide the same support as these knee braces? I live in a 18th century home which is timber framed. Seems previous owners removed a lot of these braces during renovations and installed stud framing to accommodate drywall. In a 1 1/2 cape, the 1/2 story wall over the living room seems to be racking out a bit.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+KJames Jr. If the stud walls are sheathed in plywood they might act as a brace. Timber frames are built to rely strictly the framing members for all structural support. Issues normally arise with them when people modify them. Not saying that means your house will cave in, but there might be some odd shifting and racking over time.

[@robertvazquez8706]

where in ny are you?

[@williamlewis8741]

hello sir many thanks for the video. maybe i missed it, as you were trimming your tenon, what is the depth of your cut please ? is that a 2X6 or 2X8 ? i'll keep watching and thanks so much

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

The tenon ends up at 2" thick. These braces are 4x6.

[@reylaferriere1990]

The plans I am using are calling for a 3/4" depth housing. Would I still use the 3/8" rule? Or would it be a 5/8" My first timber frame project and loving the hell out of this

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Draw a 45* line, put a mark at 3/4" from the starting point of the line and then draw a 90* line from the edge to the mark on the 45* line. This will give you the length you need.

[@reylaferriere1990]

I’m not quite sure what you mean? Newbie. I followed exactly how you did things and it worked out but the plans I’m using have the bearing surface at 3/4” recess not 1/2” so do I use 3/4 as the reference line

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

If you can drop me an email the my website, tradesmanoffgrid.com, and I'll draw it out for you.

[@gary24752]

Why an offset tenon rather that centering it on the knee brace? Are these used normally on the outside walls where the ones on the interior are centered?:

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Any brace is generally cut this way. It is just a stronger way.

[@truthofgod6213]

Is the mortise offset as well?

[@evergreenorganics]

You mentioned getting called to a gas leak. What trade do you do by profession?

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I am an industrial HVAC mechanic. I work on big boilers and big refrigeration systems mainly.

[@bearrivermama6414]

I am interested in learning about timber framing because I have aspirations to build my greenhouse via timber framing. My husband and I have spent the last year doing major renovations on a new home and in the process I have been saving all the windows and doors as we replace them. Including 6 very large patio door panels. I am curious as to what species of timber you would select for a structure that will house such a high moisture content ? We live in northern Minnesota so the structure will be closed up for about 7-8 months a year.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I'd be looking for oak or hemlock on that one.

[@bearrivermama6414]

Thank you for the reply. So chisel work is going to be a bugger 😊 but the end result would be spectacular. I best keep doing my homework! This project will be mostly my pet project and I have started playing with timber framing concepts by build some furniture pieces they are really cool pieces and I really enjoy the act of hand chiseling and pegging it is kinda addictive.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

That is great, you must be a treasure.

[@earlburning1857]

Hi I'm Earl Burning I live on the Tuscarora Reservation just a little ways away from Niagara Falls NY

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Nice to meet you Earl. I'm up on the border near the St. Lawrence.

[@happyslacks]

Excellent job!

[@vaultsjan]

Small comment on cutting order: On brace, you want to cut the bearing surface cut the last - it is more critical of the two end surfaces and (especially if dealing with wonky wood) less chance for saw to wonder, if its small cut.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Good input

[@dougdunlap6638]

whaaaaat! We are not perfect? That's ok I am still trying to figure out how guys like you can figure things you do out. Well good morning to NNY from CNY

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Doug Dunlap central N.Y.? Small world. Morning Doug.

[@smokedtires]

Getting ready to go out and give it a try in Lysander NY (CNY). Thanks for the instructive video.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+smokedtires there you go! That's all I've been doing, just winging it. Good luck with your project. Another neighbor, getting crowded here with New Yorkers!

[@maklorts]

What do you use to seal the ends of your tenons?

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Latex paint works well, Anchorseal is a go to for many. Pretty much anything that will clog the pores of the end grains.

[@nathanmciver6496]

Hahahahaha!! Old cool sa choid says! Your not cool unless you get a framing pencil! Surprise! It's does the same job!!!! Awesome!

[@powhana6019]

How to determine length dimensions?

[@josephbohme7917]

Like myself- you don't talk like you are excited at all- Maybe a few shots before the video and some helium jokes.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Joseph Böhme I'm pretty low key until there's alcohol involved.

[@leighannewurtz9930]

Is there a thumb-rule on how long to make the brace based on how long the timber is?

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Not particularly, I tend to use the longest brace that will fit the situation and the load. You have to keep in mind window and door placements. I'll be doing a better brace layout video soon.

[@amaliopratti2068]

Nice video. I just built my first barn in Massena NY! You're up north too?Thank you!

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

No shit, I'm working in Plattsburgh right now. I usually work out of Watertown.

[@timbarry5080]

Why are they called a knee brace rather than just a brace? I thought maybe they were called a knee when they were going down to the sill rather than up to the tie.

[@TheChupacabra]

ONE TIP FOR YA! Use a razor knife. I’d always got annoyed when I’d bang the kerfed wood out with a hammer and it would tear out and leave messy canyons

[@brandonbledsoe2650]

great video Jim,

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Thank you

[@onetravellove604]

What if the 4x6 braces aren't exactly 4 inches wide but rather 3 3/4 or so. Having the reference faces on the hypotenuse and the top where you laid it out and cutting down exactly 2 inches would give you a different sized tenon each brace you cut. Wouldn't it be loose in the mortise later on, given that all the mortises will be 2 inches wide. Reading Learn To Timber Frame by Will Beemer and there it isn't any word about it either.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

At that point you need to cut your brace housings to match the brace. You can still do a 2" tenon and mortice but you'll want a 3-3/4" housing.

[@onetravellove604]

@@TheTradesmanChannel Thanks for the quick response. I am still not quite on the same line here. I don't really understand it yet. What I meant is that my 4x6 is not just not true 4 inches, but it's also not square. I want that the reference faces of post, beam, and braces being flush on the outside, so I can sheet it without any gaps. If I cut every brace the same 2 inches with my saw on top of the reference face I will end up with a odd sized, not square tenon every time. Adjusting the housing wouldn't solve the problem since it's the tenon and mortise that won't match unless I make customized mortises, right?

[@onetravellove604]

I was putting the timber for the braces through the bench planer to get it to a consistent 3 3/4. That should do it for now. Thanks for the quick response again. Really like your channel.

[@williamlewis8741]

hello Jim, i watched your video on the brace joinery. i have some questions. first of all, your arbitrarily picked a spot to begin your 3/8 point ? two: you made the corresponding 45 degree points along with the three inch mark. three: you began cutting the tenon. four: how thick is the tenon please ? it appears that you've cut in half. my question is: what is the size of the mortise housing with the half inch measurement you mentioned ? did i miss a video ? i live in france, semi retired news photographer who lives in an oak forest. please share the specs on the mortice and tenons please? what are the beam sizes too ? cheers

[@MrSailstone]

Thanks so much! So clear

[@NYNCMIKE]

If I could ask where in NY? I am from Northern NY now in NC

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+NYNCMIKE up on the St. Lawrence river, Jefferson County

[@NYNCMIKE]

Very cool, I am from Jefferson County as well, cannot beat that area

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+NYNCMIKE really, very cool. I grew up in Copenhagen in Lewis county. Moved to where I am about 15 years ago.

[@NYNCMIKE]

I grew up in Carthage, had a deer camp on the hill past Timberview and one by Natural Bridge, Spent many days on the St Lawrence and Lake Ontario fishing and ice fishing. Love your Timber Frame work, and next time I am up there I will keep an eye open for the barn

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+NYNCMIKE I graduated from Carthage in 2000. What a small damn world!

[@shanek6582]

What does the 1/2” housing mean?

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

It is where you recess the joint into the timber a 1/2" and then cut your mortise.

[@shanek6582]

Thank you sir. I’m binge watching your channel now, glad I found it.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I'm glad you found it as well. Any questions feel free to ask.

[@TheChupacabra]

Love the long form instruction. Hate the chinese water torture for background music.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I put a lot of bad music in these older videos.

[@frugaldrew5187]

I always think it's funny when people bitch about camera work. Your layout was good but a little confusing. Don't get me wrong I loved seeing the hands on and I know this is ass backwards from your recent feedback but I'd love to see more explanation on layouts.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Frugal Drew I will be more than happy to do a layout video, I'll try to for the weekend.

[@hectoraguilar5006]

For the people who are not carpenters could you please show a completed piece so that people can see what measurements apply to what part of the knee brace.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

There are probably 20 videos on this channel of doing just that. Look through the Timber Framing Vlog playlist.

[@Indureiner]

Good video, great advice. Get another camera or two though :-)

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+Morten Reintoft thank you, that one is an older one. The camera work has gotten much better since.

[@vaultsjan]

I can't quite decide whether i'm jealous or haughty over a man who can trust the edges!

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

I only trust them if they're square and no crown.

[@vaultsjan]

Yeah, i too have dreams :D

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Nice. I've been lucky on this project in a lot of ways. I take a ton of time on the sawmill squaring. Helps a lot.

[@leonardorser3455]

Thank you sir .

[@grebdnulyrag]

OK I got it figured out now, JIM. I always sat on the dumb side of the class but from where I sat I could knock a kids had off with a spitball.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

Nice, now that takes talent.

[@mrbakerskatz]

Don't break that camera ,bein kilt is not fun . Great video thank you !!

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+mrbakerskatz thank YOU for watching.

[@ShimodaLife]

I didn’t understand why you chose a 3/8” point in from the side (to allow for the housing) when you just said it’s a half-inch housing. It didn’t make sense. Then at 12:22 the video shows clearly the tape lying along the diagonal line, revealing a half-inch length along the line. Secret Revealed! The power of close-up video! Thanks for the clear explanation.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

It works out perfect.

[@toriking2080]

Your housed braces are too short. You need to reference from the arris on the post and beam. Try a dry fit before you mass produce them. Good luck, stick with it.

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

They were all the right size. You're laying them out on the timbers to account for the housings. So instead of measuring down 36" on a 3x3 brace layout, you are measuring 35-1/2".

[@FreeRange1234]

what the heck is that clicking noise, ARRGGHHH

[@TheTradesmanChannel]

+FreeRange1234 fence charger, I see you found my older, crappier videos.

[@herculydia]

4 minutes into it and I still got nothing. To the point ?