A Tow Ball is NOT an option in a 4x4 Recovery? FIND OUT WHAT GOES WRONG

[@etc-and-more]

I just wanted to let you know that even though this video is 2 years old there are a bunch of us new-to-offroad guys that very much appreciate that you are helping to save lives and avoid injury by clearly demonstrating the correct and incorrect equipment.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks for saying that Bob. There’s lots of content here to learn from.

[@biggs8729]

So I watched the other video where Ronny intentionally makes the tow ball fail and my take away was that the tow ball is incredibly strong. He took a 10 meter snatch rope and got a full speed run at the tow ball with as much speed as he could and that tow ball held over and over again. He did eventually get the ball to fail, but I think it took about 4 or 5 tries hitting it with as much speed as he could. For subsequent tests, he ended up having to cut half way through the shank on the balls and they still were very strong. I’ve never subjected a vehicle to that kind of torture while trying to make a recovery, but if I did, Yes, I would use a better recovery point. Now I’m not saying that tow ball is the best place to hook to, but for the average stuck vehicle, it’s more that adequate for a recovering. Like all things, it requires a measure of common sense and if you don’t have it, I guess follow the advice in this video.

[@MadMatt4WD]

You make some good points. Use the right tool for the job especially when it's so cheap and easy to do.

[@stewbird]

I think what Ronny was trying to show was what could happen in the worst case scenario. It might work 99 out of 100 times but you never know when that last time will be. No one knows the true strength of any tow ball internally. Could have been a bad cast etc.

[@talkingtrashtom]

Maybe a difference in shaft size as well, 3/4 vs 1inch, tight bolt vs loose bolt, etc. 2inch reciever vs 1 1/2 inch.

[@chickensfloat7427]

The temptation to hammer the gas is always there though once connected

[@biggs8729]

Not really, I like my truck enough that I'm never going to smash the throttle like that. Maybe somebody else will, but not me. If Ronnie would have put a forged receiver, a 2-in ball with a 1 inch shank in the back of his rig, he would have ripped the back of that Toyota off before breaking that ball. He purposely got light duty tow balls to try to prove his point. Not saying it's a bad point, just don't condemn everybody out there that drops the strap on their tow ball for a simple recovery. Not everyone is driving a dedicated off-road vehicle and sometimes you have to help the next guy with what you have.

[@bryanbrowning5746]

Nice presentation! Thank you for illustrating the “stress riser” in particular, in a way that a layperson can understand! I was a witness and first aid provider to a bystander who was observing a recovery who was in the danger zone, and was struck in the thigh by a tow hitch that broke and became a projectile. The force was enough to break that person’s femur! A vehicle recovery turned into a two hour medical evacuation! Anyway, thanks again, and I’m a huge fan of your channel!

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks Bryan. As you possibly may have seen in the comments. So many people still think I’m wrong.

[@maximus2969]

Well put together and informative,Can't stress safety in any situation enough,especially with recoveries and firearm safety

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks

[@olliehopnoodle4628]

Thanks Matt, yes I had a front tow ball on a bumper and I just needed a small tug off a flat spot to get out of the way on a busy trail when my jeep died. I had a guy freak out on me that you never use the ball. There are a few times that it is okay. If it's a simple tug where there is barely any load on it then you can go ahead and do it. In my case the tow ball was attached to the front bumper, the previous owner would use it to position an RV. But if it's in a receiver, then just pull the ball assembly and put the strap trough the pin.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Excellent comment

[@CaseysOffRoadRecovery]

Yup let common sense prevail. It's not as black and white as everyone claims.

[@olliehopnoodle4628]

@@CaseysOffRoadRecovery But you could also argue that if you never use it, you won't have a problem. ;)

[@KirtH27]

You should mention about bow shackles not to use the ones with pin and clevis pin, they will bend the bow shackle. WHere the screw in pin type will help keep the bow shackle from bending. We were not allowed to use the pin and clevis pin type of bow shackles at work for this reason.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Great point

[@seanworkman431]

Finally an explanation of sorts. You are making a valid point to a guy who has watched cranes fall from the sky. Things fail if not maintained. As a seafarer I can make the point that when towing at sea you should never allow the tow line to become taught. I have used my tow hitch for recovery but put a twist over the hitch so the ball is not taking the full load. If you are planing to tow a trailer when was the last time you checked your hitch?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks and some excellent points

[@bushmancam]

Great vid mate, I had to explain this to a mate I was recovering a couple of months back after he chucked the strap over my towball, I told him to watch the Ronny Dahl video, he had no idea how dangerous it is

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks.

[@dustyfarmer]

Recovery points are usually for more suspect and un-rated when it comes to shock loadings. Ronny Dahl had to partially cut the towball shanks to get the towballs to fail. Effective dampeners on the ends of the strap go a long way to dissipate energy but you can remove the tow tongue, poke the snatch loop into the receiver & put the pin through it rather than over the tow ball.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Ronnie didn't cut the first tow ball as shown in this video. My thoughts on the pin. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@dustyfarmer]

@@MadMatt4WD Ronnie's head was the only thing that came close to going through the windscreen in the first test. You can also get on eBay an 8 tonne rated pintle hook/50mm towball tongue that has the top arm of the pintle hook locked over the top of the tow ball. Factor 55 is nice stuff but I think it got its name because it costs more by a factor of 55.

[@MadMatt4WD]

@@dustyfarmer Yes F55 is not cheap. But it's very good gear and many who can afford it are appreciating the quality. Of course, there are many other suitable options.

[@MustangsTrainsMowers]

In the US a company was selling what I think was called Convert a Ball which was a shaft sticking up in which you could slip down on it a 1-7/8” ball or 2” ball. Well several of them failed, and the company was sued and I think that they were recalled too?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Interesting.

[@fastst1]

I won't ask about dropping a bow shackle into a pintle ring hitch :) Would love to try some 4 wheelin down there but my F550 heads for the earth's core when the ground gets soft no matter what.

[@MadMatt4WD]

I'll bet it does.

[@cameronlee4386]

This was a good video except when he says Ronny Dahl did a good video any receiver that got put through what he did to the tow ball would have failed. And if you sawed halfway through a d ring and chained it to a tree and then drove off as fast as you could it would break. Let alone do it 8 times and destroy the frame on your vehicle before it breaks.

[@stewbird]

I think what Ronny was trying to show was what could happen in the worst case scenario. It might work 99 out of 100 times but you never know when that last time will be. No one knows the true strength of any tow ball internally. Could have been a bad cast etc.

[@TruBluOffroad]

@@stewbird if that's the case no one knows the true strength of the cute recovery points that all these uneducated "experts" recommend. or a tow bar you put a recovery hitch into, or the bolts holding it all to the chassis, or the chassis itself. These "experts" like Dickhead Dahl falsely scare people into attaching to things a lot weaker than a tow ball, causing actual dangerous situations. There's an increasing amount of occurrences where "rated" recovery points are ripping off and flying along with a shackle. No 4x4ing snatch strap or kinetic rope has, or is going to, snap a tow ball, as demonstrated by Dickhead Dahl, the chassis will let go of the whole tow bar before a 2/3 cut through tow ball will break. Think about it.

[@cjr4497]

@@TruBluOffroad You do realize that people have been killed by tow balls that broke free during a recovery right?! He mentions it less than 15 seconds into the video. It happens and is well documented. They essentially turn into cannon balls when they go. That is all Ronny Dahl was trying to demonstrate. The whole point is attaching to something that will not kill someone if it breaks.

[@TruBluOffroad]

@@cjr4497 He say's it on the internet, it must be true!! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Lucas12v]

@@cjr4497 people have also been killed by airbags and seat belts. There's a lot of people in the world so almost anything that can happen will. That doesn't mean it's likely. If you're foolish enough you can get almost anything to kill you. Not saying towballs are the best option but the danger is way overstated in my opinion.

[@Shebasandfleacornelius3rd]

Always pulled by hitch. Crazy how that never crossed my mind. Wont be doing that shit anymore lol

[@codywohlers2059]

But it doesn't break when you tow a 10,000kg trailer and hit the brakes... The real lesson is don't stand in the danger zone when doing recovery.

[@JimBob-vb8oz]

@@codywohlers2059 You're not shock loading a 10,000kg trailer like you do in a snatch recovery.

[@codywohlers2059]

​@@JimBob-vb8oz I think you are

[@JimBob-vb8oz]

@@codywohlers2059 If you are then you're rough on your gear.

[@billygauthier]

Just had this accident

[@misdamagoo213]

Nice job! Lotsa clear reasoned explanation & a good dose of common sense.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Glad it was helpful!

[@timmorris3056]

We just go to harbor freight tools, buy the Triple Ball hitch with solid square tube $35. We put the tow rope loop over all 3 balls and use a grade 8 bolt for the pin rather than the soft metal standard hitch pin.

[@MadMatt4WD]

If I know what people do but there’s still a better tool for the job than that.

[@tomconroy8367]

Easiest solution in an emergency is to remove the hitch, put the loop of your strap into the receiver and reinstall the pin.

[@MadMatt4WD]

This is my thoughts on that. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@MiniLuv-1984]

@@MadMatt4WD The link gives a very good and balanced opinion with substantial justification. I like it!

[@GregUnderwood-p4h]

Unfortunately the weak link is actually the 9/16 pin that's in double sheer connecting the tongue to the towbar. It will fail before the towball which although in single sheer is more than double the cross sectional area of two 9/16 pins.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Well except it doesn’t seem to be the part that we see fail.

[@RobinBanerjee]

I've had a similar experience pulling out a stuck Xterra with my Tacoma, and looping over the ball hitch. Ball didn't fail, but loop somehow slipped off, and flew back straight through the rear window of the Xtrerra! I've now gone and bought some soft shackles and a hitch mount tow shackle!

[@MadMatt4WD]

Glad you didn't get hurt.

[@callum3261]

I'm from the UK and have a Nissan Navara D22 it has a Fixed Swan neck tow hitch (I don't know if you have them in Australia) But was wondering if anyone has any info on whether it would be suitable for recovery because it is one solid piece of metal. Instead of the ball is shown in the video which is welded. And I can not find any type of recovery receiver that fits swan neck hitches.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Personally I wouldn’t use it for a kinetic recovery. A tow recovery would be ok if you HAD too. Use the right tool for the job.

[@callum3261]

@@MadMatt4WD I was also wondering if you don't have a hitch reviser would it be ok to loop a strap around the hitch itself because it's a solid connection?

[@MadMatt4WD]

@@callum3261 there’s a thing in recoveries where if it works it’s fine. That sounds like it goes against everything I say. The idea being every recovery is different and will require a different approach. People like things to be black and white most recoveries have lots of grey in them. So considering the dangers and such you then make a considered plan that is as safe as you can make it for the situation you’re in. Part of the process if you know you will be performing recoveries is to prepare the vehicle as best you can. There can be lots challenges at that point with the modern vehicle. So you decide whether you hook on that way. If you do I suggest you keep the recovery energy as low as you can.

[@chrisscibisz9231]

This is a great video of why not to use a tow ball for a recovery. Thank you for explaining the reasons so well. There’s a good chance you might save someone from injury or death in the future. Glad I found your channel and now decided to subscribe.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks for the support

[@davegiles2120]

Still haven't seen anyone mention just using the pin on the receiver as a tow point. I was taught that it was much safer than using the tow ball. I'd like to see what sort of forces would be needed for the receiver pin to fail when directly connected to a snatch strap.

[@MadMatt4WD]

I’ve done videos about that over the years. If you go to the blogs on the website you’ll see my detailed thoughts. Basically it’s ok imo as a last resort.

[@asdasd-ni8eg]

This guy has it all sorted in his text book recovery As mentioned the tassie hitch was rotten due to lack of care just because someone got killed when a bus hit them crossing the road doesn't mean you stop crossing the road.

[@MadMatt4WD]

So that justifies using the wrong tool for the job?

[@bobpfaff2258]

I bought a secondhand 4X4 a few years ago with a tow bar. I replaced the tow ball and connector simply because I didn't know what work it had done. Not that I recover from the tow bar but I do pull a horse float and want to know everything is first rate. The old but true saying applies - a chain s only as strong as it's weakest link.

[@charvakkarpe]

Somebody should have told Cannondale about single shear and double shear when they came out with their "Lefty" fork.

[@j.e.honiball1327]

Those things are designed for the purpose. Those lefties are stiffer than most normal bicycle forks

[@g42wilson]

I'm delighted to see you going through the details of the safety parameters involved in a pull, but I have to say, I think you missed the most critical thing: the difference between the load applied to the attachment point is orders of magnitude higher if you are pulling with a chain rather than a kinetic recovery rope or strap and you don't snug it up before starting the pull. Shock loading breaks things. Any time a pull is being done is an engineering exercise: there is a series of connections and each one must be within the safe Working Load Limit (WLL) NOT the Minimum Breaking Strength (MBS) of each of those connections. For example, not all tow balls are created equal. The ball on my truck is rated for 40,000 lbs/18,000 Kg and the hitch is stronger than that (I move house trailers). The tow ball used to pull a small utility trailer would commonly be rated for 10% of that, and wouldn't be nearly as strong as typical recovery equipment, and therefore not safe to pull from. Finally, Inspect your equipment! If it's rusty or frayed or worn or cracked, retire it before it breaks!

[@MadMatt4WD]

You make some good points. But your towballs are rated to tow not recover so bare that in mind. As you indicate a towing load is vastly different to a kinetic recovery load.

[@micktaylorwolfcreekmechanical]

When I do a recovery I make anyone in my 4wd get out and stand 3 or 4 lengths of the strap away from the car, I use rated recovery gear but 1 thing I have noticed is the front recovery points can and will fail. Its not the points that fail its the bolts after you bash them a few times on rocks it must shock load the bolts. Can you do a video on these rated recovery points that bolt into the chassis. I have had 2 sets fail both good brands on the bolts not the recovery points.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Great points. I have that video scheduled for a few months time. Are the mounts being bolted on with grade 8 HT bolts. They shouldn’t be failing.

[@micktaylorwolfcreekmechanical]

@@MadMatt4WD Yes correct grade bolts installed. Maybe the bolts get damaged from bashing the recovery points on rocks causing them to weaken I'm not sure.

[@wakeupamerica4610]

Thank you for doing this vid!!! Ive had a few heated "discussions" about this very subject.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Glad it was helpful!

[@gingie5246]

I only use a tow ball when I am not yanking someone out like in a ditch where you can pull someone out slowly.

[@MadMatt4WD]

So are you saying in a low load situation?

[@gingie5246]

No I pulled out a smaller size camper with my tow ball

[@TheOldaz1]

If you must use the towball you can wrap the end of the strap under then around the towbar and hook the loop over the towball. If the towball should by some fluke break, it will be propelled a small amount into the rear of the tow vehicle. A modern 3500kg rated 50mm towball has a shear strength well over the usual snatch strap rating. This is far stronger than using the hitch pin, because using the hitch pin this way it becomes a single shear point and is already way under towball shear strength.

[@MadMatt4WD]

And yet the Australian government has a mandatory standard that must be on all snatch straps sold in Australia that says do not use a tow ball. Now we all know governments don't do anything they don't have to. www.productsafety.gov.au/standards/recovery-straps-for-motor-vehicles#:~:text=its%20minimum%20breaking%20strength%2C%20expressed,used%20in%20the%20recovery%20process

[@dannyh9010]

Newbie question here: is there just a bow shackle that is wide enough to use the bow shackle straddling the outside of the receiver and able to put the bow shackle pin through both of the hitch pin holes in the receiver?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Hey mate. No there’s not but that would not be a very strong design imo.

[@russellraspier4859]

The triball hitch that Matt from Winder uses is 3 balls welded to a tube not bolted like a single ball. Also the recovery rope he uses doesn't "hit" as hard as a flat strap or chain. Chain is terrible for snatch type recoveries and will often damage mounting points due to having no "give" when loaded by a "hit".

[@MadMatt4WD]

This video is a precursor to a video where Matt explains his use of the triball.

[@Pro1er]

Have you seen the tri-balls with a hook welded on them?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yes. Not designed for kinetic recovery although in an emergency they can be used without connecting to the tow balls directly.

[@KirtH27]

Question for yah. How about the pin? Would a grade 8 5/8" be better than the standard pin?

[@MadMatt4WD]

One would think so. But what are the standard quality pins made off? I don't know to be honest. As I say in the video I would still prefer to use the hitch reciver.

[@fastst1]

Well so here's the issue, the pin has a similar strength and material as the rest of the hitch, hot rolled carbon steel. If you added a grade 8 pin and solid bar insert, eventually the bolt will slice through the outer receiver, fracturing it. 13,000 single shear of a grade 2 pin, 26k double. That's a doozey of a pull. Likely close to the breaking of the hitch itself.

[@MrTDGU]

What are your thoughts on just putting the strap in the receiver and putting the pin through it?

[@ShopStuff0416]

I have this same question.

[@silentepsilon888]

those pins are rather thin and if you bend it, you might have a very hard time to get it out and release your tow strap.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Gents. Thanks for the question. Best off reading my Blog at this link. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@Malc664]

Don't use the pin as it bends and can break. Use a hitch receiver. READ MadMatt's blog it explains your options and more on safety.

[@iffykidmn8170]

@@Malc664 You must have read a different blog as the one above says different.

[@michaelanthony4270]

Just remember 1 thing Mad Matt says "never use your balls" 🤣👍🏼

[@MadMatt4WD]

😂

[@jeepster0934]

How about a pintle style hitch with ball with the pintle latch on top that closes down?

[@MadMatt4WD]

A std pintle yes but not with the screw in ball.

[@jeepster0934]

@@MadMatt4WD So even with 2 5/16" ball that has huge stud for retention?....and latch against top of it?hmmm

[@DellCvz]

I've pulled a 12ton truck 15 miles over hills. My tow ball seems really good.

[@MadMatt4WD]

A tow is rather different to what we're referring to which is a kinetic energy recovery.

[@catchawakeup6411]

Not really the same thing mate, towing vs recovery.

[@bikingfordays6951]

Not the same thing but I have a 1/4 tone if I’m a little hung up I’ll use the hitch only if I’m buried would I consider something else

[@victorb145]

Reminds me of when I was trying to get my boat and trailer to the truck. I couldn't back the truck all the way up to the trailer so I took the cable from the winch that's just designed to pull the boat onto the trailer and attach that to my bumper. And was using it to pull the boat and the trailer to the truck. So I tell the person helping me to stand clear of the cable because one I'm asking it to do something that wasn't designed to do and 2 if it failed that quarter inch cable flying around was going to do its best to cut her in half if it bit her. Do you think she would get out of its range?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yeah right. Wouldn't believe you ay.

[@victorb145]

@@MadMatt4WD Nope luckily despite three or four individual strands it held. I think ill replace it with one a little bigger. Easier then finding a new place for the boat.

[@MadMatt4WD]

We have a design that has a strap like seat belt on it. Much better IMO

[@victorb145]

@@MadMatt4WD okay I'm a little confused. A design for a winch? But whatever it is if it makes my life easier I'm interested in it.

[@kenweberg959]

Mad Matt thats why Matt at winder towing uses the 3 ball assembly. Makes sense

[@MadMatt4WD]

next week we have @matts offroad recovery explain that. This video is to lay a platform for Matts video.

[@kenweberg959]

@@MadMatt4WD Ya Matt have caught a couple videos you guys did togeather. Good stuff

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thans Ken :)

[@RockmanDash]

@@MadMatt4WD Hill towing just uses one tow ball and a kientec rope.

[@jjlawnservice5229]

I have not had a ball break but I have had straps slip off the ball and the strap go flying

[@MadMatt4WD]

That can happen too

[@texashankpalmer876]

Those mounting points on the front of vehicles are not designed for shipping and transport, they were designed for recovery. Just take a look at your owner's manual.

[@MadMatt4WD]

on some they are but not on my Toyotas, when they are used in big recovery they have been known to fail

[@harveysmith100]

Is the standard staple that is bolted with four bolts to the rear crossmember on the 70 series OK for recovery, also is location OK for fitting a tow bar? Whilst I am asking about the 70 series, the standard shackle points at the front, are they tie downs or can you recover with them?

[@MadMatt4WD]

I wouldn’t use the factory points for anything other than light recovery. Fit a pintle hook to the 4 chassis bolts at the rear.

[@harveysmith100]

@@MadMatt4WD Thanks for the advice

[@jackfourbee3609]

Well said Matt. As usual very informative. On the ball. 😁 Keep up the good work. 👏👏

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks, will do!

[@sholbura]

Thank you for the video. Would be nice to see a video showing how to properly hook up both tow and recover ropes from beginning to end. Maybe there are other videos out there that show that. Will check…

[@MadMatt4WD]

There’s many videos showing that

[@vr96np]

Really appriciate your concern for safety. From a technical point of view it is not so much about single or double shear. It is about shear surface and shear strength of te material. I think that the real danger is the use of kinetic rpoes. They will introduce verry high peak loads on the recovery points. This is especially true if the vehicle doing the recovery gets some speed before the kinetic rope tightens. Land Rover recons that loads in excess of 13 metric tons may occurre in some of the recovery procedures.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks.

[@blondeguy08]

Actually bow shackles are a major issue due quality concerns. We had to put in place policies on the metallurgy and the origins of these things. Also, they don’t do well with with shock loads.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Totally agree.

[@Handleyman]

There is something that you missed. What about the front? Because I don’t have a bull bar or a winch I am more likely to be pulled out of a situation from the front than the back. I don’t have a front bar, but all of the recovery points I have seen for the front require a bull bar to be fitted first. What should I do??

[@MadMatt4WD]

I didn't miss it per-say. I can only cover off so much info in each video or they would be way too long. In your situation you should speak with your local 4wd accessories supplier or research whats available for your vehicle.

[@MiniLuv-1984]

Wow Matt, so well explained. Thanks.

[@MadMatt4WD]

My pleasure!

[@SuperAWaC]

A more precise way to put it wouldn't be to say that the double shear is *stronger* because it isn't, what it is, is the force being divided between the two shear points, so nominally half the force is applied over a single shear. This is important because if things aren't set up correctly, or in sub-optimal situations, such as if one hole is worn out larger than the other, it can go back to acting like a single shear joint.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yes strictly speaking yes but for the purpose of this exercise is it important to communicate that to the audience ?

[@SuperAWaC]

@@MadMatt4WD Maybe. I feel like it's reasonable to say something like "a double shear splits the force between each shear, so each shear point takes half the force of a single shear"

[@jackar1ah]

Hi Matt, Its just occurred to me that you potentially have the same problem if you try and snatch recover a vehicle and trailer combination backwards using the recovery point on the back of the trailer. About the only difference I can see is that when either the towball or part of the hitch fails as you describe, it is less likely to become a projectile as it will hopefully stay locked onto the coupling on the trailer (not a risk I'm willing to take though)....

[@MadMatt4WD]

You raise an excellent point.

[@RealCadde]

There's another reason you don't recover from a trailer though... The trailer's chassis isn't at all suitable to do a recovery from. You are quite likely to destroy the trailer if the towball doesn't come off. Sure, there are probably exceptions out there but that's just what they are... Exceptions.

[@jasonnelson8788]

What you can do with your tow ball is directly tied to it's rating. But in the case of recovery you do not want your ball to be anywhere near the weakest link. On the other hand you could have a sold hitch and ball rated for 20,000lb. Unlikely that is what most people would have on their small 4x4 though.

[@MadMatt4WD]

I think we agree.

[@bugman655]

this is interesting.. i have never seen or heard anyone breaking a ball off must be cheap balls. ive seen hitches break or frame points where hitch bolts to fail cause of improper mounting or cheap bolts. ive always used good quality 2in balls with large shanks mounted to good quality receivers and well mounted hitches and never had failures. but ive never just sliped the rope, chain, strap or what ever the case may over the top of the ball its always been around the ball, hitch and nut of ball. but this does make one think better about their situation and use proper equipment cause you never can tell. good video and information.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks

[@doneB830]

They got this new metal called chinesium

[@destinhook3826]

i was hoping you would mention the different ball sizes since they are rating for drastically different weight. the 1” 7/8 ball is only rated for 2000 pounds and 200 pounds tongue weight no wonder it would snap. if you size it up to the 2” 5/8 ball, it would be rated for up to 10000+ pounds and 1000 pounds tongue weight. i feel like it would handle recoveries a lot better.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yeah or just use the correct tool and not have the concern.

[@destinhook3826]

@@MadMatt4WD i very very rarely off road with my truck but it does tow a lot. that’s where my question arose.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Your better of taking the hitch out and fitting the strap through the hitch pin then.

[@bobvedder2451]

I used a pintel hitch to recover a mates truck, the hitch was rated at 12 tons, it worked fine.

[@MadMatt4WD]

That’s acceptable.

[@TowieHD]

If it was meant to be a recovery bar, it wouldn't be named a tow bar. Fantastic video mate, thanks you. Subscribed.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yep and thanks for the Sub.

[@neutronstorm]

Rewatched this video and I really appreciate this a lot more after reading the corinors reports on the deaths. I don't think that it can be stressed enough that we harp on about this because it has been shown again and again to be a leading cause of deaths during recoveries. From what I remember, the poor person that died when the weld failed was nearly 100m away!

[@MadMatt4WD]

I'm consistently amazed at those who defend this dangerous practice all to save a simple device change.

[@neutronstorm]

@@MadMatt4WD I get sick of the common sense crew. "there shouldn't be any rules because everybody should just use common sense". Unfortunately, when corrinors reports keep coming in with the same cause of death, something needs to be done to educate the common sense crew.

[@pincus321]

The problem is the towball hitch you are using is a two tonne limit. The potential for a tow is in excess of two tons. The Jerk component is way higher, you need to highlight this point. The ball breaking is caused by not being tightened properly or has been badly abused. it is way stronger than you are suggesting, human error is probably the primary failure in most cases. However I think you make a good point these things can be avoided

[@MadMatt4WD]

Interesting points.

[@evoone3039]

why go out and buy a d ring receiver for the hitch. just the put rope loop into the receiver hitch and use the pin to hold the loop.

[@MadMatt4WD]

My thoughts on that. It has some disadvantages. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@smiley3303]

I saw a guy come into our local shop with a B&W style rated for 10000 pounds I think it was. It was set on the “big” ball. 2 5/16 he said he was trying to pull someone out and it broke right off. I had heard about this issue before and told him it ain’t made for winching out you need a D shackle type for that use. He was surprised and had not heard that before. I think people commonly make this mistake as we see the rating and think it is plenty. I use expensive hitch balls such a as the Shocker so I don’t even want to use those when I have a $30 option that is safe.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Well said

[@davidcarrico3385]

Great video. So my Jeep Wrangler JLU has a rear tow hook on the driver side rear. I also bought a factor 55 hitch mount recovery point. My thinking is the center pull should be better than the off-center pull of the hook, so I would use the factor 55 in a recovery situation(all else being equal). After seeing your video, now I am questioning my thinking. Which do you think would be better to use in a basic rear recovery situation with a JLU? Thx.

[@MadMatt4WD]

If you’ve got the Factor55 recover that’s the best solution. Well done.

[@seanworkman431]

Just to add to a previous comment I made. I drive a 1997 Subaru Forester and it has an old style tongue hitch which I recently removed because it dragged in the parking space of my new location. When I removed it , although the bolts were in reasonable condition the split /spring washers had failed. Just an example of why we should all maintain our machinery. Eat well you all.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Great point

[@Gizmo42Rodeo]

You missed one option that I wish you would have included. If no D ring hitch is available, feed the strap into the receiver and put the pin through it. Not as strong as the D ring but much safer than the tow hitch.

[@donhappel9928]

Agreed, though there are some negatives to that as well. For example, any sort of side-loading will put the strap against a hard edge which has the potential to cut/damage it. But if my choice is this or a tow ball, this wins every time.

[@MadMatt4WD]

My thoughts. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@donhappel9928]

@@MadMatt4WD I should have read some of the other comments where you posted this - pretty much mirrors my own thoughts.

[@billygauthier]

I don't know if I can watch this. I just had an accident on Tuesday. Cracked my skull with a 2 5/8 ball that came flying through my window. Day 3 of recovery after surgery. Don't do this. I was just giving a quick tug to pull start

[@MadMatt4WD]

I hope you have a good recovery. As you would have seen in the above comments many think I'm telling lies about the towball failing.

[@Mt24855]

Dam 3 years ago and was only a year ago those two incidents happened, you called it 😮

[@jamesperez3765]

I've seen matt from matt's offroad recovery use a triple tow ball setup with his yankum ropes multiple times, and he seems like an experienced guy that knows what he's doing. What are your thoughts on that?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Next weeks video is Matt explaining it. Personally I think he could just use a proper hitch receiver.

[@bennett53446]

If you watch how he connects the rope to that receiver it diverts the energy into multiple points and could possibly be stronger than a tow shackle, but I’m still with Madmatt’s set up because there is no way that the snatch rope can slip off or get miss aligned during the pull.

[@Dan-re7go]

Personally I think a 5 star hotel and a swim up bar is better.

[@joblessalex]

In Hardcore scenarios, yeah. Wouldn't trust it. But you also have to think that the bolt on a tow ball is a million times thicker than the double shear pin that goes through to hold it in.... You'd need massive force to even break it and if you did, that pin might break before the ball given the right loading. Therefore you shouldn't use the receiver at all?

[@MadMatt4WD]

That last sentence is where it’s at

[@l337pwnage]

Mass has a considerable effect on energy, or guns wouldn't use different sized bullets. You could launch that cloth shackle out of an Abram's cannon and you won't penetrate any armor with it, or, in all likelihood, ever reach a target.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Correct but if you launch it at a higher enough speed it'll go through steel or disintegrate. If an item is lighter it just needs to travel faster to do the same damage as a heavier item travelling slower.

[@strugls8454]

Just an FYI bow shackles like that are rate to fail at a ratio of 6 to 1 so that particular shackle should fail at 28 tons.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yes but that's the safety factor not the WLL

[@evictioncarpentry2628]

I think it depends on your rope. Something like a Ridgid non-stretching strap puts all the force right onto those shear points but those kinetic straps stretch and build energy in the rope instead of "shocking" the anchor points. Having said that, I've never seen a hitch ball go flying, but I've seen some guys bend the hitch into a banana and the strap came flying off the ball (no shackles or anything) so it wasn't a big deal but I've always told people it was a stupid idea and go get a proper recovery system.

[@MadMatt4WD]

nice points

[@robhill5169]

hi matt in the UK our tow balls are differant than yours and our land rover club has banned the use of kinnetik tow ropes on our land rover trials

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yes I've seen your design and thats a good thing.

[@RealCadde]

But what about the three ball hitch that Matt from Winder towing uses? Is it designed with this in mind or is he locking and loading his "shotgun" every time he uses his?

[@donhappel9928]

I've been surprised to see him use that; even suggested at one point he get a D-shackle mount to replace it. They're so cheap and easy why not?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Our video next week is Matt explaining how he does it. Personally I think he could use a hitch receiver.

[@glenmccarthy7913]

@@MadMatt4WD In a few of the latest videos, A pintle hook has been used and the three ball has been put away. The three ball is used in tow when you dont know what size ball joint is going to be when you tow a customers trailer, they dont know most of the time.

[@glennkiller3195]

I actually never thought about Corrosion from the Inside of the Tow Bar. I've seen Tow Balls Snap. I even pressed one(Same load as attaching a Strap or Chain) to prove a point when I was younger. This TOP Quality Tow Ball snapped at about 4000kg. I was trying to prove to a mate, that when the Snatch Strap loads up & Retracts it will exert massive energy well above 3.5t that a Average Tow Ball is SWL Rated.

[@MadMatt4WD]

That’s interesting. Have you watched Ronnie dahls videos on tow balls.

[@glennkiller3195]

@@MadMatt4WD I haven't yet. I'll make time to watch it

[@rocar8243]

Whats up with a solid tow ball. Like in Europe?

[@MadMatt4WD]

I would argue it's not designed for the job of recovery

[@KirtH27]

Huh. Learned lots of new stuff! I won't be using my receiver with a bow shackle!

[@MadMatt4WD]

Great glad to help

[@josephcastro5894]

Answered alot of my questions. Thanks!

[@MadMatt4WD]

I’m glad to help.

[@BillyTpower]

What are your thoughts about putting the strap it'self in the receiver then held in by the pin?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Acceptable as a last resort.

[@timmorris3056]

We tried that, it bent the pin, had to torch it out.

[@jeristair]

How safe is it to just not use the red factor 55 adaptor and instead just put the recovery strap right through the hitch receiver pin.

[@MadMatt4WD]

It has some drawbacks. Here's my thoughts madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@jeristair]

@@MadMatt4WD Thanks for the reply and write up. I will continue using the pin for now but look at getting the hitch adapter.

[@RobGADV]

What's your take on Winder Matt's use of that quasi-pintle type hitch for hooking his Yankums up? Plus he's also been using a three-ball holder on customer vehicles. Did you lecture him about that when you were there? :)

[@SgtHulka_III]

Yes, would love to hear your opinion of pintle hooks at the hitch.

[@MadMatt4WD]

I have no issue with a Pintle hook so long as it's correctly mounted. Next week my video is Matt explaining how he uses the TriBall and I think he explains it well. Personally I think he could use a hitch receiver in the front and be safer than the TriBall.I certainly didn't lecture Matt but I did challenge some of his practices.

[@rogerbeard9002]

Ball receiver you have is very light weight. I only use one like that on my side by side.

[@MadMatt4WD]

This is a 50mm/2” ball

[@rogerbeard9002]

The part the ball is attached to is light weight.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Ok. That’s interesting. In Australia that’s often used to tow up too 3500kg trailers. And we are a nanny state on safety.

[@iffykidmn8170]

@@MadMatt4WD What is the tow rating on the ball and is it 3/4" or 1" shank size? Also what is the tow rating on the receiver 5000lb 7500lb or 10,000lb?

[@rogerbeard9002]

The ones I use are rated for 10,000 pounds, I stay away from the light weight parts.

[@adolfoabhurtadoc6106]

Mr Matt, thank you for this video! I wil learn this lesson for sure! In my case, that I have a smal pickup in which we use the rear bumper as a hitch (it´s rated for 3500 pounds). I don´t go off road with it, but I pull a lot with this truck; mainly cutting trees and cleaning gardens. In some points, we use the truck as a tractor, but untill now using the hitch ball as the anchor point. Would you sugest to use a shackle instead? I know you talk about why it is not good in recovery situations, but in this case the shackle will atach to the bumper stamp sheet metall instead of a hitch plate. Thank you!

[@MadMatt4WD]

Why not just get a hitch receiver like I show in the video and make sure you're safe. As I say the metal plates are also known to fail. If you use the code madmatt you can get a discount on the products linked in the discription.

[@qcwred]

In that video you recommend the guy yanks the living shit out of that car. Would it be OK to use a tow ball if you remove the slack? I've never towed anything and yanked it.

[@MadMatt4WD]

In direct answer to your question a tow recovery can be done off a towball as the force is only the reactive force from the tyres. But it must not be confused with a kinetic recovery which is where many people go wrong.

[@chrisbeatty743]

This video is very applicable if you are using equipment rated for jeeps. Your hitch ball and hitch are rated for a maximum of 10k lbs (that's generous. You are using a class 3 hitch and a maximum of 1" ball shank.) You should use a forged hitch that Is a solid piece of metal. You shouldn't use that hitch and ball for the same reason you shouldn't use a 10k static strap for recovery

[@MadMatt4WD]

Correct

[@chrisbeatty743]

@@MadMatt4WD I should state that I do not drive a small offroad vehicle. I drive a heavy duty diesel truck. My hitch receiver is rated at 20k lbs and is mounted to my chassis with 3-4" welds and 3 1/2" diameter bolts on each side. My chassis is reinforced for towing and is incredibly strong. Most offroad vehicles do not have a hitch receiver anywhere near that strong and honestly should not pull on it as it can bend their chassis. If you are having to yank on a stuck vehicle, it would be best to use something that is directly inline with either side of the frame of your chassis because as you said, force travels in a straight line. I should also state that in most situations, there are safer options than using a hitch and ball. Using a d-ring or even a pintle hook is safer because it does not allow the strap to come off in any direction. The slightest bit of slack and a bump can cause that strap to move from the shaft of the ball and can become dangerous if the strap slips off. If you have a truck that is strong enough to pull most vehicles including 18 wheelers out of the mud without having to yank on them, the hitch is fine. You just have to use the right tool for the job and some common sense. If you have to back up and yank on a vehicle, an attachment point that keeps the strap attached is obviously the right choice. If you just have to pull forward and can keep tension on the strap and you have a strong enough hitch, you can use that.

[@chrisbeatty743]

Last point: when dealing with force, most people know the equation Force=mass*acceleration. This equation is really only theoretical because it doesnt contain all of the information. The real equation is the impulse equation. Impulse is the amount of force applied over time which is what you will feel when pulling someone out. When you just pull on someone, you are applying force over a long period of time until you reach your maximum force. If it takes too long to reach the maximum force, you will lose traction and not move anywhere. To combat this, you increase your velocity at the time of impact and by doing so, you reduce the time by a significant number. If you reduce the impact time by too much, you will begin damaging your vehicle because nothing on a car is designed for that sort of force without taking damage to protect the occupants. To give you some random numbers as an example, let's say you are 100 kg and your acceleration is 1 m/s^2 and your impact time is .5 seconds. You are exerting 200 newton's of force. If you back up and accelerate at 2 m/s^2 and reduce your impact time to .1 seconds, you are exerting 2000 newton's of force. If you use that same principle with the weight of cars, it will show you just how dangerous recovery can be If you don't know what you are doing or have the right tools.

[@plymouthduster2252]

I have a question for you Mad Matt. I understand that using a ball mount like you showed in the video is dangerous. But I recently used a tri ball hitch mount with a hook on it to pull down a dead tree in my yard. Could that be just as dangerous using a ball mount that has more than 1 hitch on it or it any safer?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Watch this. kzbin.info/www/bejne/gJTZY6qvard-m6s

[@jeTROGIBBS]

Thanks for the video.... Does this apply to fixed tow balls?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Never have a tow ball or hitch in a recovery.

[@bruceaugustine6486]

A 40.000lb. Pintal hitch is that you should use, usually about $110.00.

[@MadMatt4WD]

A pintle hook is a reasonable tool as well

[@bruceaugustine6486]

@@MadMatt4WD It is faster to connect and disconnect from and a solid connection welded to the rear of the vehicle bumper when a Hd Steal bumper is installed.

[@shaneregan2955]

Most new towbars state "For trailer towing only" on their compliance plates these days. I wonder how you go legally recovering from one of the bars? I think it's the manufacturer of the bar covering themselves in the event of a bar failure.

[@MadMatt4WD]

I think you're right. "fit for purpose"

[@josephsolomito4703]

Great video Matt, lots of important information. I hate to be "that guy" but I do want to point out one error. You said that the soft shackle and the bow shackle have the same amount of potential energy. What you are describing was kinetic energy not potential energy and it is not the same in the two pieces of equipment. The formula for calculating kinetic energy is ½ mass times velocity squared. The velocity is going to be very close however the mass of the two objects is radically different. The amount of kinetic energy in the bow shackle is going to be significantly higher than in the soft shackle.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks for the comment. Because I’m no physicist I actually got this video checked prior to it being released. I’m confident it’s correct but I’ll get them to read your comment and respond if appropriate.

[@shaneharrison4775]

Isnt that why you keep all your recovery kit in a dry place and in good clean condition and as we do in useing multiple snatch blocks and d ring reese recovery pins in solid steel

[@MadMatt4WD]

i'm not sure I understand what you’re saying .

[@shaneharrison4775]

@@MadMatt4WD on the reciever reese makes a one piece solid steel reciever piece that can be used with block and tackle d rings and other re overy devices that dont endanger those who use them of coarse that's here in the colonies and if a vehicle cant come free with a gentle pull then take a shovel and bury it the rest of the way because it isnt worth retrieving but here most retrieval is still done by winch and chain and by professional retrieval engineers

[@MadMatt4WD]

@@shaneharrison4775 Nice

[@Lucas12v]

That Ronnie D video you linked seems to show how strong tow balls are. Not how weak they are. He had to act like a complete idiot to break them. Anyone that clueless would find another way to get hurt anyway. Are they the best option no, is it possible to break them, yes, is the danger blown way out of proportion, definitely. I don't generally use them for recoveries but the many times i have used them along with some common sense, it's been fine. I have no fear of using them in the future in some but not all situations.

[@damianmacfarlane6858]

Can you use a strap inside of it in the housing

[@MadMatt4WD]

My thoughts are here. madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@Brendan9300]

What about putting the strap in the 50mm tube and put the pin through it ???

[@MadMatt4WD]

my thoughts madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@sydneymowerandautomotivece4319]

Yes Ronny Dahl's video is a good example of what can happen. Shame he had to falsify the breakages. As for using a hitch receiver or the pin, isn't minimising projectiles the name of the game ? As doesn't the recovery hitch in the hitch then become a shear in itself ? Glad to see someone telling the truth about steel bow shackles.

[@MadMatt4WD]

What do you mean falsified the results??? I think the double shear ensures a strong attachment designed with good engineering principals that won’t fail with the loads we are dealing with.

[@sydneymowerandautomotivece4319]

@@MadMatt4WD Just that after 8? Attempts a used ball didn't break and had to cut them to break. But it does show how tuff a jeep is. Totally agree with the double shear. Just using some real life experiences with metal/bolts/pins in the hitch receiver scenario from working with machinery and mechanicals. Over time creates stress points and we know how well people inspect the equipment. About 1 in 10 vehicles I service, the tow ball is loose and been used to the point where the threads are worn and worn the tongue to the point it needs replacing.

[@MadMatt4WD]

@Sydney Mower And Automotive Centre Excellent points. The video I reference shows that hit number 8 busts the ball off. From what I saw it hadn't been cut or tampered with. Of course there could be camera magic going on but having met Ronny a couple of times he doesn't strike me as a guy who would falsify this testing.

[@stevenlollback6145]

Great video Matt. I would never use a tow ball in a recovery. Just one small point at 8:43 you mentioned that a soft shackle would have the same energy as a steel shackle, the steel one has more energy because it has a greater mass (is heavier). Anyway keep up the good job of educating, I love your work.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Hi Steven, Thanks for the comment. As I understand things (i'm not a physicist) the they will be both launched with the same amount of energy which means the soft shackle will travel faster than the bow shackle but they can both cause significant damage. Go watch Roberts video linked above and also the one called Bullets Balls and Cricket.

[@iffykidmn8170]

@@MadMatt4WD Hold both at shoulder height and drop them on your bare foot then explain which has more energy.

[@MadMatt4WD]

the issue with that is that the soft shackle will spread it's force over a larger area rather than the shackle having a point loading. Watch this video kzbin.info/www/bejne/bXXFoHdrja9-prM

[@Jake_Hynds]

I feel the easiest option is take the ball and the sleeve out of the receiver and put the end of the recovery rope into the receiver and put the pin through the loop in the recovery rope.! easy and do not need any special tools.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Watch my latest video about this

[@Jake_Hynds]

@@MadMatt4WD no I will not, better to hook up like that then have a ball hitch kill someone

[@tiltingvehicle1844]

The ball is not in " shear" as you put it. When the ball retaining nut is at the correct torque, the flat mounting surface of the tow ball against the flat tongue surface is what creates the clamping force which creates a frictional resistance to loadings. Its a similar thing to how a flanged drive shaft loading works. The bolts holding the flanges together are NOT in shear they are in tension. This tension clamps the surfaces of the flanges to create friction and it is the friction that delivers drive from one flange to the other . If the bolts are not tight enough then yes... they are then in shear and they can/ will indeed shear. When using a ball to recover of course any rope/ strap could slip off the ball so use a restraining loop to make sure this cant happen or use some other way.. Now to the second point where a hitch is located in the hollow receiver with a loose fitting cross pin. This is indeed " double sheer" but I would wager that this will fail before the ball fails[ unless the ball is damaged etc.] Now imagine if the hitch [ square tube] was clamped between two flat bars by tightening a high tensile through bolt, Now, friction will provide all of the load bearing and the through bolt will not be in shear, and I think you will appreciate the analogy with the flange drive. So to summarize, it is the clamping force that provided the frictional resistance and the threaded element that provided the tension to create the clamping force. With regard to Ronny Dahl... he is an idiot!!

[@MadMatt4WD]

You make some great points. A comment near you is of a guy whos in hospital because his ball failed.

[@tiltingvehicle1844]

@@MadMatt4WD well lets see the details. I for one am ready to listen. I recall in your video that you observed how a rusted out hitch [ rusted down to 1/16 inch at a loaded weld point], failed at that weld. Well ..anything will fail if its not maintained. Eventually the vehicle will rust and fall apart due to gravity. Matt, your going to have to do better . Now of course, lets not forget that " road wheels have been known to fall off vehicles and kill people " and the reasons they come off are not dissimilar to the reasons why towballs may fail, The roadwheel is held in place by the clamping force [ creating friction] between the wheel mounting flange and the axle. To maintain this clamp force the wheel studs must be torqued to the correct value so that the studs are never in shear... only tension. Again it is the friction created by the clamp force that is important. So by all means make more video' pointing out that a tow ball stud mounting nut MUST be torqued to the proper value so to prevent this part ever coming into shear. When the stud is prevented from being in shear the next point to fail will be at the " waist" of the ball. Well good luck snapping the ball at the waist. It can happen in a jackknife or rollover but that's not relevant to this discussion. Education involves more than simply trying to scare people. [ try politics]

[@MadMatt4WD]

Here's a comment from above this comment. Billy Gauthier 2 days ago I don't know if I can watch this. I just had an accident on Tuesday. Cracked my skull with a 2 5/8 ball that came flying through my window. Day 3 of recovery after surgery. Don't do this. I was just giving a quick tug to pull start

[@tiltingvehicle1844]

​@@MadMatt4WD reply to Matt directly. Lets look at this Matt. Firstly its not a recovery its a method to start a manual gearbox vehicle by getting it rolling after selecting a suitable gear and easing the clutch into engagement. But we are not provided with any evidence of what actually occurred. Was the ball on the towing unit correctly mounted where did it break at the stud or the waist? What was used to connect the towing unit to the towed vehicle? Was is a chain? Was it a strap? Was it a rope? Was a suitable gear ratio selected? Was the clutch " dropped" or eased into engagement? Did the towed vehicle take all of the slack before moving off slowly or did it do a " ronny dahl " charge in the false hope that this would help ?. Matt, you must do better than this.

[@MadMatt4WD]

@@tiltingvehicle1844 You are defending poor practice here. Yes we don't know the full circumstances but at the end of the day to defend the use of a tow ball as a recovery device is foolish. You must do better than that. It is so easy to use correct gear that for the most part is better than a tow ball. So stop defending poor prcatice.

[@patrickstaples7314]

What’s your thoughts on just using the snatch strap and the pin (in case you don’t have the recovery receiver)? (I do have the proper receiver hitch) but just throwing another scenario out there.

[@MadMatt4WD]

My thoughts madmatt4wd.com.au/2014/01/27/is-a-hitch-pin-acceptable-as-a-snatch-recovery-point/

[@andrewlangridge90]

Thanks for the good vid Matt. Any thoughts on why a tow ball can tow a trailer thats 15,000 plus pounds no problem? a truck that needs to be recovered is far less than half the weight of most trailer towed. It holds all this fine and never breaks while towing. How is recovering different from daily towing especially up and down high mountain passes in Canada? Thanks

[@MadMatt4WD]

Sure. The amount of traction required to move 15000 lbs is not 15000 lbs. you can push a car but you can’t lift one. Also we’re factoring for fatigue over time.

[@timh1187]

Its because he doesnt know what he is talking about. In canada with full sized trucks your towing ball should be 1 1/4. Think its rated for 30,000 pds. Your slings or chains will break long before the ball will shear. I've pulled bumpers off trucks ripped tow hooks from frames. Never broken a ball.

[@fahadalwheibi760]

Very logical words, thanks for sharing this important information with us

[@MadMatt4WD]

Thanks and welcome

[@TruBluOffroad]

Got any proof to back up those claims at the start of the vid?

[@MadMatt4WD]

Yes I have listed it elsewhere during google it and you’ll find stuff fairly easily.

[@TruBluOffroad]

@@MadMatt4WD actually no, you don't find anything legitimate. Just lots of speculation and uneducated, unsubstantiated hearsay.

[@MadMatt4WD]

This was the first result I got when I searched up towball deaths. Scroll down the article for the list. www.4wdingaustralia.com/4x4/4wd-recovery-deaths-in-australia/

[@TruBluOffroad]

@@MadMatt4WD 1 of 9 in 20 years with a mention of a tow ball and I'd put money on it that it had part of the tow bar with it. If it was the ball that snapped I'd put money on it that a chain was being used. I mean seriously Mat, surely you're smarter that Dickhead Dahl and can see from his video that tow balls don't snap from use with a snatch strap. You need to do better. I'm sure you have good intentions, well I hope. But by adding to the towball scare, you're endangering more people who will opt for something of questionable strength that is more likely to fly at people, because they believe blindly that a tow ball is a straight up no go. Most of the vehicles out there the strongest thing on their car is a towball, and unless they have hundreds of hp and massive tyresm there's no way they can possibly get enough momentum to break telstra rope, let alone a towball. But if they're scared of the ball and desperately find something else to connect to, there's a good chance they'll hook to something that will fly off and kill, like a bull bar or rear bumper. Warn people to take extreme caution and to educate themselves, because as evident in the link you provided yourself, people are hooking to all sorts of things that are clearly not up to the task. One of the things that people connect to that also fly off at fatal speeds are those cute "rated" recovery points that all the big brands sell. Don't be a suck hoping the big brands might give you freebies or help promote you. Don't be scared to tell the truth about their rip off, selling priorities. They don't care about people. At least the people should be able to trust people like you to tell them the truth. Don't mislead them!!!!!

[@MadMatt4WD]

Scotty You obviously know way more than the rest of us so who am I to question your infinite wisdom. Why come here to insult me and make assumptions about what i know and do? Have a mature debate by all means, we do not have to agree thats fine with me. I'm only too happy to be wrong. But the way you're approaching this is with arrogance. Now I will respond in good faith that you will stop with the attack and begin to have a helpful conversation. You may notice I'm one of the few channels that actually responds to nearly all the comments. Thats because I'm serious about what I do and serious about helping people. Did you know it is mandated in Australian standards that you must not recover of a towball? It is one the label of every snatch strap sold. So why am I wrong to repeat that warning? At the start of the video I say towballs and hitches for very good reason. That is because the hitch is known to fail. Do you know what the Hierarchy of recovery is? I don't like the rated recovery business either and prefer to use the terms of suitable recovery point. Unfortunately everything gets attached to a thin piece of chassis in some way which is hardly a good solution but if a Kinetic recovery is done right we know that it can work. I personally hardly ever do a kinetic recovery prefering one of the many other methods available to us. Lots more I could say but it's late and I'm off to bed. Oh and I don't like swearing and calling people names on my channel so let’s try and keep some level of professionalism. I found this comment in the junk pile and approved it to have this conversation.

[@CB-lh8gw]

You're talking about weakpoints and such so I'd like to point out that the bow shackle your holding is rated for 4 3/4 tons, or 10,471 lbs. it's a cheap one too so it's likely rated at a 2:1 ratio (Their website gives absolutely no specs beyond a 10$ price and a good shackle rated 5:1 or 6:1 would be around 30 bucks) but that gives it a max limit of 20,942 lbs. Now that's fine in quite a few situations because you can expect to introduce forces to it of about 3 times the weight of whatever vehicle you're attempting to yank out of a hole. but only if it's being pulled straight, if that pressure is introduced off center than it reduces it's over all limit considerably... granted I'm just reiterating what someone else has already written on some other website. But the point here is that for someone focusing on safety I feel like you should be using higher quality tools.

[@MadMatt4WD]

Great comment. Personally I’m moving toward soft shackles and associated gear.

[@CB-lh8gw]

@@MadMatt4WD I haven't seen them mentioned yet aside from one of your collab videos with Matt in Utah. lol But I did only just find your channel. Thanks for the response! I'm looking forward to binge watching most of your videos in the near future, It's pretty interesting to see the differences in how you approach problems/jobs compared to other towing channels I watch.

[@MadMatt4WD]

@@CB-lh8gw Thanks for checking it out. Be aware some of my thoughts have evolved since some of my early content. Also, I'm not a towing channel but an all things 4wd channel. Anyway, I really appreciate the quality discussion on whats going on. Helps me get better at what I do.