A trial sail of Beneteau's revolutionary new Wingsail rig | Yachting World

[@permilleuxthibault6226]

To those who want’s news from this boat I sailed her last summer (2020) from it’s ship yard (Saint-Gilles-Croix-de-Vie) to Port-la-Forêt (south britany, France) and it works pretty well ! We were downwind and we reached 10 Kts With 20kts winds. The project has been abandonned due to shipyard decision (cost reduction and changing in project développement). The boat stayed in land for 5 years waiting for a buyer and it turn out to be Michel Desjoyeaux

[@marklong8608]

It's wonderful to see one of the major manufacturers trying something innovative. There is huge room for improvement in the efficiency of the standard sail plan. I hope they learn a lot and we see something new coming to the market. Put one of these on a lightweight weekender catamaran and I'll write a check!

[@meadmaker4525]

I would be really interesting to see a rig like this, perhaps a little larger, on a 40-50 foot catamaran or trimaran. I hope they've continued developing this.

[@pioneer_1148]

With their lower wave drag they could make way better use of the power and truly fly

[@davidsicha314]

It looks very interesting. I would like to see the reefing process and how the sail behave in strong winds and big waves.

[@timdunn2257]

This is a good rig design. My own version predates this, and incorporates junk style sheets that attach along the leach. Junk sheets provide more positive control of the camber, and reduce both the static and jibe loads compared to sheets that attach only at the boom. In essence, the sail is stayed rather than the mast being stayed.

[@TRabbit1970]

Wharram has been using wing sails for decades, and he developed them from prior designs spanning centuries. This one is a nice combination of sailboarding bows and sail batons, permitting better stability of and control over the shape of the sail.

[@Daveinet]

I had a thought of a similar idea, except I wanted a rotating oval mast to shape the sail. Basically you have the cloth looped around the mast. The front of the mast shapes the leading edge of the wing. You have battons attached to the slot in the rear of the mast. The idea is that the mast rotates farther than the boom. Since the battons are rigid to the boom, they create the curve of the leeward side of the sail. The windward side is stretched flat, just like an airplane wing. Because the mast rotates, one can control the depth of the draft, just by the rotating the mast less or more compared to the boom.

[@senatorjosephmccarthy2720]

Daveinet + A flexible airplane wing. Sounds promising.

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

@@senatorjosephmccarthy2720 It's called a morphing wing in experimental/theoretical aviation.

[@yachtingworld]

Comparing the speeds with a conventional Sense 43 was the next stage of testing for Beneteau and not available at the time I tested the boat. This project is in development and we were one of the few granted a quick look at where they had got to so far. For the full feature and analysis see YW June issue - out Thursday 7 May

[@ChrisThompson-dh7mv]

So why not do a follow-up report AFTER the testing? It was three years ago - surely it's been completed now. Or is this like the wing trials in the Seascape 18s, where the wing was shown to be slower and therefore those promoting the wing kept it quiet?

[@isailwind3471]

It turned out to be a dog. The mast looks like a freakin telephone pole.

[@vincent5]

You have to Pin your comments

[@RogerWilco1]

It’s years later. Would be nice to have a follow up.

[@Race353]

@@isailwind3471 So what, form follows function. No rigging, only one sail with considerably lower CG. Way less cost to maintain, no rigging to trip over or maintain. Win win. IMO - even if it was a little bit slower, say even 20% slower, I'd still convert to this wing. So much less to do and so much easier to use.

[@ram25004fun]

Funny you say its a new invention when in fact wingsails have been around for decades. My first contact with a wingsail on a cruiser was in the early 2000. Kelsall has always been a strong supporter for wingsails, especially on cats.

[@minimax9726]

This wingsail looks like what we see in windsurfing they call it cam sails and it feels better in the gust than a "normal" batten sail

[@matthewprentiss1460]

I'd pay 5 bucks to hear this guy say innovative aluminium vitamin schedule.

[@elliottrobert6189]

Pro tip: you can watch series at flixzone. Me and my gf have been using it for watching loads of movies these days.

[@edenronald8991]

@Elliott Robert yup, been using Flixzone} for since november myself =)

[@jcfrazier5853]

I think I'm going to experiment with this concept and use one of my old inflatable beds, modify it, and try to use it as a inflatable wing sail on my canoe. Seriously! Then when you are ready to dock overnight, just deflate or take it down and sleep on it. Lol

[@macrumpton]

A review of a wing sail with no mention of performance?

[@jeromefaulle]

It's a double sided junk rig, so less performence then a bermudian/marconi I guess. more over it has 3m2 less then the original rigging for this boat.

[@tullochgorum6323]

@@jeromefaulle On the other hand it's a full 100kg lighter, which also wasn't mentioned.

[@andrewyork3869]

@@jeromefaulle there is nothing stopping a headsail being used. Maybe not a cutter rig, but a sloop maybe.

[@martijnheil8825]

@@andrewyork3869 Just make the wing bigger.. any other sails are gonna interfere with it's airflow

[@andrewyork3869]

@@martijnheil8825 you can only make it so big before it becomes mater of practicality namely in regards to mast hight and the center of effort.

[@TampaTec]

2 years turned into 8 years later. What ever happened to this evolution of sail boat?

[@Bluenoser613]

How do you reef? What wind speeds can it handle? How do you rig a storm sail?

[@aaronr.9644]

wondering the same

Every batten is a reef point.

[@Nagpadawala]

It was so long ago that I did not think youtube would have any footage BUT there it is. Check out Planesail and the video of the 60's rig pop up. They are the ones that hold all the major patents and were promoting the concept. The boats could even go in reverse. Many a commercial tanker were built with it. So what are the frogs chiming about.

[@rogercrier]

Has anyone mentioned "Walker Wingsail" yet? It seemed to work when I was at the helm of one! With today's electronics and today's tech, who knows how good these wings will get. Good luck to the innovators, just ignore the Luddites.

[@davidprocter3578]

I remember a chap trying to sell his wing sails at the boat show {Earls Court] back in the early to mid seventies, designed for cruisers, he had little success but a great deal of interest. I wonder if the development and acceptance of wing sails in the racing field will win over the general sailing public ?

[@lightbox617]

In the 1990's, I was invited to sail a small catamaran on Barnegat bay in NJ USA. At the time, it was the fasted boat I ever drove poorly.

[@yohon8977]

I've never been on a sailboat but after watching this I think I like it LOL

[@Boris_Chang]

I’ve known a few sailors who got conked on the head during a “surprise” jibe-one of them actually knocked off the boat and suffering a concussion. I couldn’t tell in this brief video really how much “safer” this wing rig is with a “crash” jibe.

[@911naimplate]

Wow, that's really something Lex!!! Seriously, Try a Nonsuch, they got it 100% correct 40 years ago and its much better made and far less of a hassle!!!!!!!

[@glandoremarine]

I work as an engineer on an aerorig yacht called Jacquelina built in Pendennis. We are currently working on a project to do away with the aerorig and modify it to have a non overlaping jib a mast that rotates and a normal boom as the boat sails like shite at present

[@montiraystyron1546]

Saw this same set up on a canvas and paper catamaran in wooden boat's mag. Twenty years ago .

[@pforce9]

Reminds me of the "Fast 40" back in the late 70's or early 80's. Some guy took a skinny 40 foot boat and put a balanced rig on it similar to what you are showing here. The balanced rig almost did not need a sheet because it would just stay were you put it. Loosening the sheet did nothing, you had to push it out. It had a big single sail that wrapped around the mast and on downwind legs, you opened the thing like a butterfly. He did a few races but eventually we saw him running around with a conventional rig. Anyone out there know any more about this rig?

[@MrTeneric]

Won't say it's the future but like to see the experimentation. Reefing, weather behavior, etc. still a lot of questions to answer. Thought the rig would be heavier but 100K lighter without the hardware. Expensive to build?

[@laurentfroggy6631]

2017 now. I haven't heard anymore news on this. Does anyone knows how far this project went?

[@Дмитрий-в2ч8к]

Да никак. Судя по всему.

[@coenzwarts6934]

2019 now

[@tonybrowne7220]

Laurent Froggy 2020 now

[@ubbeus]

Well, I think it’s safe to say it’s not smooth sailing for the marketing company....

[@CessnaPilot99]

2021 now

[@Motrus01]

So 7 yrs on. Seemed such a good idea. Any more progress into production cruisers??

[@Champsvisions3d]

2020 what is the update on this?

[@960Design]

Reminds me of my first sailboat. Pearson 23C 1984. Very easy to sail.

[@pioneer_1148]

Why was no jib/genoa fitted alongside the wing? I'm sure that you get plenty of power from the wing but it looks like there's still space and I'm sure you'd get more power with a jib/genoa added.

Actually, this is not a new idea at all. This is basically a junk rig with an airodynamic fairing added, and it has been independently invented many times. It will point higher and sail faster than other cruising rigs, and it's a dream to reef.

[@Sean_Coyne]

My thoughts exactly. Blondie Hasler would salute you, with a G&T.

[@f.j.h.4194]

That was my thought as well. There's also some similarities to the Wylie and Nonsuch cat rigs.

[@radioboys8986]

also kinda reminds me of a big balanced lug rig

[@dominiquestephenson1541]

It's similar to fully cambered windsurfing race sails with large luff sleeves and flat leeches......

[@davidb.cutter4631]

M/S Olivebank: Junk rig, same characteristics. An English Claymore 30 converted to junk rig by Peter Tripp prior to 1988. Home port: Kittery, Maine.

[@Hoppie1983]

It'd be interesting how this copes with bad weather

[@valvetrom]

How do you heave to?That rig would be good on a catamaran(like Pha ) One mast and sail on each hull.

Fin keels don't heave to, anyway.

[@JohnJones1987]

For all the "wingsails are no good" crowd, the big problem isnt performance as you keep stating, but the fact that you need a unstayed mast. How many of us would be willing to remove all the stays and hope the mast stays upright under passage? With a wingsail that weighs a ton. Not many i bet. Moreover, a wingsail mast should be fairly close to the bow. So even if your mast is up to scratch, it's probably in the wrong place. So the market for these sails are brand new boats, and buying such a boat really puts you in the wing/junk sail camp for life, as you'd have to move the mast if you wanted to go back to a bermuda. So that's why junks/wings aren't as popular as they perhaps should be. Technology-wise, its not exactly rocket science, and they do perform better than anything else. It's just the masts are in the wrong place.

I sailed across the Pacific with unstayed masts, 40 years ago. The masts are still standing after a circumnavigation and long voyages. To me, standing rigging is dangerous. Metal fatigue and crevice corrosion make every little metal bit in standing rigging very vulnerable.

[@WolfHertzberg]

Two questions for Yachting World: 1) Is Beneteau looking to add a headsail? It seems to me that there would be no reason a rig like this couldn't work with a jib, genoa or spinnaker. 2) How does it work with regard to sail controls? On AC-72's we hear about the fancy hydraulics they use to manipulate every surface and corner of the wing. Obviously, traditional sail controls don't work for something shaped like this. cheers

[@texasyankee3512]

Whole point is no complications, why would you destroy your primary design goal -- simplicity of operation -- by adding complexity ?

[@nicolasartheau822]

We might say thank you at last ,it is more than forty years that this idea has arisen . What about stormy weather and reduction ?

[@SteveInTheOC]

As a old guy this looks fantastic. How do you you reef with this?

[@TheZzzzzzzz]

nice now we getting somewhere I want one

[@WojciechP915]

I wonder how much more lift you can get from this sail vs a conventional modern sail. In Principles of Yacht Design they discuss trying to minimize turbulence over the mast and I can see this design improving that condition.

[@ericoschmitt]

Compare with hang gliding wings (they are sideways sails!): Single surface gliders with exposed crossbar and 30% double surface in the leading edge will have a glide ratio between 9 and 10,5 to 1, something like the Icaro Piuma which has wing tip wands may be at 11. Double surface intermediates are at 12 to 14 with 70 to 85% double surface, competition ones with 95% double are at 16:1 and some approach 17:1. Modern rigid wings are at 21:1 like the ATOS. These figures could give you an approximation of the potential lift performance gains. Older single surfaces without battens (rogallo standards) were around 5:1.

[@WojciechP915]

@@ericoschmitt that is very useful. thank you for sharing.

[@FoxingAround]

Once you get the bug's out and make it easier to deploy? Like to see it progress. What are people going to do if everything is so automated?

[@nealgrieb6660]

So, it has been 7 years. I've been waiting (5 or so versions of this wander through roughly every 10 years; Oceanwings is another one). What is the hold-up? Does anyone have a good read on the pitfalls of unstayed masts? Is that the issue?

[@glutenfreegam3r177]

Looks like a modern twist on the junk rig...not known for the fastest rigs but excellent for single/short handed sailing and no need to keep damp sails in the cabin which helps fight against mold/moisture.

[@Tigersmundo]

On a Catamaran with a genoa HELL YA!!! PERFECT

[@sirdon9433]

Dam! Another of my inventions gone!

[@bethells86]

English had this on Prout Catamarans about 30 years ago. Suddenly its become a cool invention :)

[@jeromefaulle]

chinese had 3000 years ago, only one side though.

[@xoffdraccel1174]

There is no mast reinforcement. So, how are the lift forces balanced? It could be some serious issues at strong wind. But please keep working on it and improving the design. The wing sailing has proven itself before.

[@peteypie333]

Would love an update!

There have been reefing furling wingsails for over 60 years.

[@ebeegeebeefofeebee3181]

How do you feel it?

[@oldyeller9849]

Looks somewhat like a cross of the Walker wing sail and a Beirig Camberspar.

[@dougfitchmusic]

Cool! I did have to chuckle a bit during the gybe as they discussed safety and the line flipped through the cockpit as if to take off someone's head? Just a a funny little thing. Obviously merely a prototype but I bet this will be the next big thing.

[@ckeith2011]

Beside it's innovative style, are there any performance benefits to it, like something tangible that we can look at and see that indeed it increases speed or stability?

[@LoanwordEggcorn]

In principle it should have lower drag due to streamlining the mast and having a very clean airfoil shape. Also it should be easy to reef, but might be easier with junk style mainsheeting.

[@melcrose]

They should put the mast on a pneumatic system that collapses and extends as needed: taking the wing-sail with it.

[@senatorjosephmccarthy2720]

Jeff Wulf + weight, complications, expense, maintenance...

[@melcrose]

Wait: things break down on sailboats? (You're absolutely right on all points) :)

[@terranborn56]

It's 2017, any updates from Beneteau?

[@sailorshavemorefun]

How it handles in stronger wings? it is just released a bit or needs a reef?

[@ManWithAVision]

Where is Beneteau's Wingsail rig now-Oct 2016? Have they brought it to market yet? Has anyone tried one on a catamaran?

[@stephencrowther524]

ManWithAVision The problem on a catamaran,as with the junk rig,is mast "bury." Catamarans have been built with a mast in each hull for both junk and swing wing rigs and worked well,as far as I know.

[@mazdarx7887]

almost two years , where is it

[@TalkCafe]

Already 3 years passed and still no news about it. Maybe it was a failure and kept it quiet.

[@appmagician3240]

Make that 4 :)

[@mikha007]

they made another one and stuck them on a plane

[@CheekyMonkey1776]

How is sail area reduced in heavy weather/high wind?

[@CockatooDude]

Just lower it.

[@Csqd1975]

You can just lower panels, it's the same as junk rig so fast and easy to reduce sail you don't even need to go to mast or tie up sail.

[@mikkoleirimaa1061]

Some speed comparison data would have been nice (Sense 43 with both conventional and Wing-rig). It looks quite inefficient...

[@rainmechanic]

Mikko Tuovinen ... The object in a Cruising Rig is not peak sail efficiency or maximum hull speed.... Its easy of use, safety, low effort single handed sailing, ease of dropping sail and reefing.. All of these features are done better than a Bermuda rig by Junk, Gaff, and these Wing Sail's.. This is the Future of the Cruising Boat.

[@isailwind3471]

They ended up being a lot slower with it, esp. off wind. Most sailors will not be interested in this. I have a 50ft Ben i sail alone all the time with no problem at all.

Almost as bad as an airplane? Does it hurt to be so clueless?

[@spelunkerd]

Three years later and I still haven't heard about it. Most sailors I know want to be involved in the complex decision making of sail shape, tacking angles and sheet control. This looks like a rig for those who don't like sailing. But, what do I know, I've always been a luddite, embracing old technology. Come to think of it, many sailors are of like mind, ha ha.

It is Luddite to prefer the far more complex Marconi rig.

[@EnholmesHall]

So its an Aerorig with a sail that looks a bit more complex

[@effingsix3825]

Looks like it needs a leading edge slat.

[@tomwilliams8675]

I want one!

[@rvpirates]

It's been 3 years, did wing sailing become a reality?

[@jeanfrancoisdetaille]

Twist on the aero Rigg

[@DH-sm7sw]

Jean Francois and Freedoms

[@johnedwards3621]

Pirate's of yesteryear used fore 'n aft rigs (sloop) because they can sail closer to the wind than anyother type -- for very good reason. Being upwind enabled them to periodically lob shells onto their victim until they submitted. Off the wind, no other boat can compete with a crab-claw sail unless your course requires frequent tacking.

[@icemaneu]

2019 now and no sight of wing sail on normal sail boats.

[@funnelvortex7722]

Yeah, they are a really old idea that becomes a hype bubble in the yachting world from time to time. To be fair they are not a horrible idea, but their niche is moreso high speed high performance racing, when it comes to typical cruising their cons largely outweigh their benefits. The people who act like they are this grand new futuristic development are typically marketing journalists.

[@paulpleasur4036]

Can this be adapted to other sailboats ?

[@briansrensen8204]

So, how did it go with this magic?

[@jeanfrancoisdetaille]

Twist on the aero rig

[@tinytree100]

Can you reef it in high winds??

[@Spar19row]

I can't believe you did not say anything about boat speed.

[@byronfranklin3612]

Myself and two partners were at the Miami yacht show back around 1983 and tried to show you guys this way back then but nobody would listen to us the inventor of that type of sale is passed away many years ago now we tried hard to show the world that there’s a better way to make a sailboat travel but nobody would listen. The man’s name was Warner Martin Moss

[@andypag1071]

How do you reef it?

[@Serhiy34]

So what about the revolution now?

[@SandyGarrity]

It will suit some but not me.

[@Telcontarnz]

So what happened with this?

[@movieklump]

What about the freedom 40?

[@egenc94]

Is it possible to fly a gennaker with this rig. Or a genoa?

[@DH-sm7sw]

Used to on Freedoms 30 years ago - basically same rig

[@golf61]

Nonsuch sailing boats have been in this, single mainsail only, direction for many years. I believe the "wingsail" is coming up fast.

[@theovanveen5375]

golf61 This is an old concept really. I've had an aero rig on my boat for about 10 years now. Same principal.

[@chasx7062]

The "junk" rig??? Wharram Wingsail or modernised Gaff rig is better?

[@4291juneau]

Can it be reefed in a blow?

[@aldobongers807]

I would love to see two on either side of a cat

[@Stevie671]

This is probably silly, but why doesn't the mast revolve?That way you could fix the rigging. Ok,go on, shoot me.

[@petergrundy8081]

Interesting

[@peterdauphinee4587]

Does it reef?

[@shinjithenegotiator2795]

its been six years

[@CheekyMonkey1776]

Is it possible to heave-to with this rig?

[@jpthomason]

+Cheeky Monkees It doesn't look like it, or reef? Sea anchor only maybe?

[@brimstone33]

Just release the sheet and let the wing luff. It should feather perfectly with no flapping.

[@dundeedolphin]

Performance information would have been good.

[@vincent7520]

It's only a variation of the "cat rig" that has been in existence for … decades if not centuries !… And this particular versions has been under sea trials since 50 years as articles in Yachting World and others magazines show.

[@vincent7520]

PS Not to mention the junk rig * !!!… (where's my head ???…) * And the western version with Jester and a few other yachts.

[@a-skepticalman6984]

It looks like a lot of delicate stuff to break in a blow or mishandling incident.

[@5818fa1]

Why not put a wind turbine on the sailboat. Then it would be easier to go against the wind and if the wind died you could go to battery power.

[@bill739123]

+Doug Doug There is a video on this channel of a sail boat with such a wind turbine . It looked very good and seemed to work very well

[@terranborn56]

Plus a sizable wind turbine would create a lot of drag.

[@hersailor]

New stuff is cool but I was taught in the beginning, never have something you can' fix yourself. My gather is that's a carbon fiber mast. The sail is twice the yardage. Besides the price though... I'm too old to relearn a new rig... I would be vulnerable to big mistakes like wondering out on deck half asleep and peeing over the side, leaning out against the shrouds that are now gone. I love my boat. Send me a new rig. I'd love to shake it out on my old Rawson 30+3

Solid hand rails, friend, and a pilot house with hand rails on top.

[@valeriykuznetsov4429]

Dove vederti?

[@Carterofmars]

How would one go Hove-to?

I've never known of a fin keel Marconi sloop that could heave to.

[@timhedgesmusiccomposer2861]

Yes but how about when you need to redo sail when it’s really windy?

[@ColinMill1]

If it handles as easily as the junk rigs it's derived from then the answer is that it reefs by simply letting out the halyard to drop one or more panels into the lazy-jacks.

[@sionnachog894]

Pity the Chinese thought of it a few thousand years ago ...looks very like a junk rig to me!

[@macrumpton]

I guess it wasn't the future of cruising sailing.

[@joshlower1]

You can still get them just most brokies can't afford them.

[@crapisnice]

its indeed, once people learn this marvellous easy way of dropping people overboard by tacking they will sell it by the trillions zillions fillions lol, anyway this balanced rig will stablish itself after stayed rig competition mania

[@lastmanstanding1954]

BUT , IS IT FAST ? THIS WAS 2014 , IT IS NOW 2020 AND I HAVE NOT HEARD A THING ABOUT IT, SO MAYBE IT DIDN'T PASS MUSTER.

[@id104335409]

A wing dies not have symmetry. This "wing" is the same on both sides. An efficient wing must have a curve in one side and be flat on the other.