A True Budget Cinema Camera in 2024 | Red Dragon 6k

[@DanielTroyer]

You’ve definitely struck a chord with the gear hype train crowd. It’s okay, leave the superior cameras at a cheaper cost for the ones who actually need them😉

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

naw fr lol

[@bmefilms6879]

sorry man, but this footage does not look better than the Pyxis 6k.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

like i said in the video this is just me shooting random things. personal opinion on sensors is understandable but the dragon has shot a lot of TV and movies and I doubt a netflix film will be shot on a pyxis (not that it isn’t a great camera)!

[@HTCBadrecon]

I bought the PYXIS on Monday. I am thinking about revoking it. The rolling shutter is much worse than I've expected. Even a Handshake is shifting. That's the worst I've seen in my entire film carrere. I should spend the money on a lumix S1H or FX3 to get a fullframe sensor camera.

[@marin_real_estate_photography]

@@HTCBadrecon As a Lumix full frame shooter (S1, S5 Original, S5 IIX), I can tell you that the rolling shutter isn't great. I think it is around 22ms in full frame mode (check CineD for their measurements). The s35 mode on the current Lumix cameras is pretty good (not excellent, but pretty good). To me, the reasons to get an S1H over a Pyxis are if you want ProRes RAW instead of BRAW, or you want the excellent IBIS, or if you want to use the Panasonic native lenses and take advantage of the linear focus / adjustable minimum to maximum focus throw, or to use on a gimbal. Or you need to use it as a hybrid camera and take stills (or as a lower-profile video camera because you HAVE to use a monitor on the Pyxis, while you can certainly get by using the built-in monitor on the S1H). Or if you need to use h.264 / h.265 codecs (but I think the Pyxis has ProRes and DNxHR too.)

[@akpevbe]

@@WhiteJadeProductions Who cares how many movies have been shot on this camera? Question is were is the movie you have shot with this camera since since u wanna advise people on what camera to get based on your experience.

[@Nexlico]

just because it doesnt look better to you doesnt mean it isnt. Lighting and exposure can make or break an image. I have seen people using burano, FS7, Red Raptor and image came out like crap because of their lighting and exposure.

[@999killerchris]

Hey man, cool video. I think I was looking at that camera actually. Everybody’s gonna hate for whatever weird reason, so just wanted to let you know im hyped to see what you make. Art is subjective and capturing a look is a labor of love.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

thanks dude i really appreciate it! people hate on things they don’t know anything about because they’re inexperienced🤷‍♂️

[@JoshSher_]

There’s a huge opportunity in the next 5 years to get a super 35 camera with a super high quality sensor (literally Hollywood quality) for dirt cheap, just because they’re super 35. And lenses as well. If you wanna shoot features(don’t have clients that demand FF), just get one of those and stop thinking about it. Then start focusing on the important stuff, like writing, talent, set design, location scouting and lighting. Filmmakers before around 2014 never needed more to make films that you consider stunning. I’m personally looking out for a Blackmagic URSA mini 12k OLPF. Getting a camera like this (or a RED Dragon) for 2500.- or so is just ridiculous and a huge privilege, that we shouldn’t take for granted.

[@lensninja]

If it's good for Fincher, it's good.

[@gaarax0x]

Oh wow you have a cinema camera, thats amazing 😂

[@TomKrausMTB]

@@gaarax0x for real, this dude is claiming a RED or ARRI is mandatory for high end commercial work meanwhile his entire profile is nothing but gear reviews. working professionals don’t have time to do endless pointless videos like this haha.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

bro i spend maybe a couple hours a week making these videos when i’m not shooting commercials 😭

[@edwardgilbert4786]

​@@WhiteJadeProductionsmate the only people who criticise are those who aren't doing as well in life. Thanks for sharing your knowledge with us.

[@TravisChow]

How is the screen interface of the Red Dragon compared to the Red Komodo X? I'm considering selling my fx6 and getting a Pyxis, used Komodo, or fx3. Exactly what you are alluding to in the video. I've played around with the Komodo X, and I really like the "traffic lights" as far as just shooting RAW to make sure it's not blown out. I'm a proficient user of Resolve and own its speed editor. Thanks for an answer!

[@TravisChow]

Oh, I shoot short films and docushorts for festivals (if I get in). I'm more of a writer/artist type, not a DP. I didn't like Sony's complicated UI and too many buttons. I just want something filmic without a complicated workflow. I prefer RAW and used to own a Canon C200. I also already have a hybrid camera for all my casual and travel photography/videos.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

it’s very similar to the komodo and has traffic lights! i’d watch a lot of videos on all those cameras and see what works best for you! the dragon is a bit of a niche use case

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

in that case ahaha i’d go for the dragon or komodo for sure!!

[@TravisChow]

@@WhiteJadeProductions One last question. Why Red Dragon (12 year old) camera over the new Pyxis? I know RedRAW and 16-bit is better than BRAW, but the pyxis form factor and light weight is quite nice. Besides the RAW format, is the Dragon just that much better to film with?

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

personally, for me, I love the way red colors look, but beyond that it has over three stops more dynamic range than any other camera on the market for the price, and it has more I/O features. it also having the ability to shoot up to 300 frames per second is also a plus for me and it being able to shoot 82 frames per second using the full sensor is also great. For me personally the dragon was a better choice than anything else, but that specifically for the work I do. Having a heavier camera is actually more of a positive than a negative for me personally.

[@JimmyBlanco]

ok so i'm gonna be the oddball here and talk about something no one else mentioned, As a former owner of an epic-dragon 6k it's a great camera however, it's heavy(not always a bad thing) the fans are super loud, startup times are abysmal, black shading takes forever onset and it chews through batteries like termites, I need at least 8 150wh batteries to get get through a production day. honestly with all the new technology in these cameras nowadays it just makes your workflow easier and less of a headache and piece of mind is worth the extra $$$ in 2024, I sold my Dragon a few years back and got a Pocket 4k because with good glass that camera can get you 90% of the way as far as IQ of the RED, I'm even more excited about the Pyxis because from what i've seen it's soooooo close to an arri that the price difference doesn't even matter plus you'll have better customer support with a newer camera than buying used when Red decides they'll no longer support the older models and something goes wrong with your camera they won't be able to repair it or parts will be scarce.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i’ve used the dragon a lot in the past couple years and tbh i haven’t had any issues with fan noise, overheating, battery issues or anything else tbh. i got it for the clients that like and use red in my area as well as the dynamic range and frame rates. whatever work for you works tho!!

[@Abeisgreat1]

If i was strictly doing narrative projects, this would be compelling. But i do weddings, documentaries, and narrative projects, which is why the fx6 is perfect for me.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

The fx6 is hard to beat! that's a great camera and probably better for doing a lot of different things. I have different cameras for different jobs so the Dragon is just for Doc, Commercial, and Narrative work!

[@DigitalDreamStudios]

These cameras although great image wise are now being outpaced by newer and cheaper tech, not to mention smaller and more feature rich options. I had the red dragon 6k and it was a great camera. Problem was no paying customers could tell the difference between this and say a Blackmagic 6k pro. The proprietary -overly expensive media, mixed with workflow issues such as black balancing (which takes a massive amount time to do) - and if you do it wrong, you’ll have tons of noise in the black, large file sizes, laggy touchscreen, terrible audio input options, fewer and fewer replacement parts of something goes wrong, having to have a pretty decent computer to edit with, along with scalability with adding a ‘b’ or ‘c-cam’ to the mix just isn’t worth it for most people going into 2025 when they can get 2 or even 3 cameras for the same price. If you’re planning on having paying clients, they’ll inadvertently dictate what cameras you use… and that’s usually the one that creates the least friction, most creativity, and the most flexibility…. Which in some cases ( I hate to say it, but it a new reality) is an iPhone

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i mean i get what you’re saying but most of that low key doesn’t apply to me and most of my clients pay more for the red than any other camera. if it’s not for you it’s not for you tho 🤷‍♂️

[@maxmeyer6395]

You say that other cameras like the Komodo aren't "true" cinema cameras. But I'd ask what even makes a "true" cinema camera other than that it's used in cinema? (You've mentioned RAW but even a lot of shows and movies shot on arri were shot in LOG). Because by that logic almost every camera could be considered a "cinema camera" if it was used by a Hollywood production. Also, who cares? The Komodo has AMAZING quality and is more than enough for what most people need. I don't quite understand what your takeaway from this is supposed to be or why cameras like the komodo or Sony/BM aren't supposed to be real film cameras.

[@jeanchindeko5477]

Arri shot in Log yes but ProRes 4444 or ProRes 4444 XQ , both 12 bit. So very close to RAW footage

[@maxmeyer6395]

@@jeanchindeko5477 but what's the issue with the Komodo or BM then? (Both shoot (at least) 12 bit) Also, those formats are an option with an external recorder on most modern cameras. (You can even shoot raw on the FX3 when using the Ninja afaik)

[@maxmeyer6395]

the komodo even does 16 bit

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

my main point is the price. 2500 versus 6,000 for a komodo or 3,500 for an fx3. and as for who cares, clients care. red dragon means more quality which means higher paying jobs. the cinema camera thing is very tricky and youtube doesn’t have a lot of good answers. ask a DP you know that one lol

[@maxmeyer6395]

​@@WhiteJadeProductions I personally don't know any DP that cares whether you're using a Komodo or a dragon. You can get a used Komodo for pretty cheap as well (especially after the price drop). I'm not certain whether this is due to missing experience in the field but I think most clients wouldn't even know the difference between a Komodo and a Dragon. I just think cameras are very overrated and that if exposed and graded right 99.9% of people (in the field) wouldn't be able to tell the difference in picture between a Dragon, a Komodo, or even a Sony camera reliably. Hell, even the Pocket lineup are still fantastic and versatile cameras sufficient for many jobs. And even tho that's definitely a good deal, I don't really understand why this camera is supposed to be a "Cinema Camera" and the Komodo or Sony are not.

[@Nexlico]

A lot of movies are filmed on S35 sensors.

[@Wysong733]

Don’t get a red, you’d be spending a fortune on storage alone, the best budget true cinema camera is either an old arri, or the Sony fs7 Also, add argue 6K resolution, and shooting raw is overkill, all you really need is 4K resolution minimum unless you’re doing high VFX work. If your goal is to work on feature films, the films are primarily gonna be showed on 2K resolution screens. You’re better off getting a used Arri! That’s how you’re gonna get the jobs filming high-end feature films.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

as someone who shoots a lot of commercials an old Arri def isn’t the way to go. no one really requests it and 4k deliveries are a must for most clients. as for films being in 2k that’s kind of a thing of the past. most theaters are doing 4k now. storage comes with most kits also. i got 2 512gb mags

[@renaissancedigital5730]

ARRI as a company is generally more respected than RED, especially in the higher end production world. Owning an Alexa even an old one can be a good move. Really depends where you are located though. Certainly 4k is commonly asked for but sometimes if you say you have an Alexa that is all that needs to be said. The Alexa Mini is in higher demand than any Red camera for the most part, and it is a sub 4k resolution camera. That said it costs 4-6x times as much as a DSMC1 Epic Dragon. I would say if you are trying to use your camera package on a high end commercial none of the affordable options are going to cut it. Pretty much the latest and greatest is always requested. I do think in terms of image quality the Epic Dragon is a great value and holds it own against the Komodo X. The dynamic range isn't quite as good as an Alexa Classic, but it is very close. I tested it against the Classic and really the main advantage of the ARRI is slightly better noise floor and better underexposed color accuracy. It is certainly an easier camera to use in terms of support gear against an Alexa Classic. Get the carbon fiber version and you have a really small camera package. I own an ARRI Amira but I have been tempted to grab a DSMC2 Dragon or Helium as they are such a good value and are great for gimbal work.

[@FilmAndStar]

fs7 is much more flexible and less of a hoover but dragon sensor shines in comparison....

[@FilmAndStar]

...if you give it the needed love !

[@sulimankhan8322]

which used arri is best for hollywood look alike film

[@uptonfilms95]

No one is debating if the Pyxis, Komodo, or FX6 is a cinema camera. Where are you getting this info from? Also the Pyxis, Komodo, and FX3/6 footage looks way better than this footage.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

actual DPs are lol. also it’s legit test footage like i said lol. not supposed to be super fancy. this camera is for DPs not videographers. big difference there

[@uptonfilms95]

No they aren’t. Search is the FX6 a cinema camera… No one is asking that ridiculous question on any cinematography/DP subreddits or any reputable cinematography/DP websites. Hell even on KZbin where mostly “videographers” who aren’t true “DP’s” are asking that question. The FX6 is a cinema camera and so are the rest of the cameras I listed in the first comment. You’re wrong bro just say that.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

ahahaha no one argues it much because it’s an established grey area and has been for some time. hop on a real set and learn something lol

[@ianhamlett8839]

When a camera company claims 15 stops of dynamic range, it's the 16bit raw photos they're talking about. Video codecs miss some of that.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

BRO UNDERSTANDS!!!

[@mindsofhumans]

Yeah too many reviewers who have no clue how to actually shoot. Sorry man, but get the ground work done and then teach. I worked 14 years as a dp and have not made a single teaching video, yet I see tons of guys who seem like having not learned how to properly shoot and they start with the teaching. Its inversed to how things once were. Example: Your exposure is off, you shoot wide open with lenses that look terrible at such aperture. The red is a great camera, very capable, but it doesn´t matter if you don´t spend the time to build sensitivity for the art itself.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

aight this is the last time I post ungraded footage lol. I've been doing this for about a decade now. test footage is just that... test footage. People expect KZbin videos to be perfectly graded and the moment it's just normal unadjusted footage because I spent 15 minutes shooting a video because I have real work to do people flip. I'm not saying I'm an amazing DP by any means but I do know what I'm doing lol. go watch a few other videos or my reel

[@McarthurBeard]

I’m actually buying the z cam e2f6 for 2k I think it’s a underrated camera has open gate and shoot 6k it has z raw but it’s not red raw I will be shooting in ProRes

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

I've heard great things about z cam but personally I haven't used one yet!

[@McarthurBeard]

@ I’ll be picking one up for Christmas with the Blazar Remus 50mm and Ill be doing narrative work with it

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

@@McarthurBeard a solid combo!!

[@ditlaboratory]

Good to hear other peoples opinions with great research to back it up!

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i do try!!

[@jeanchindeko5477]

First why does that matter so much this distinction or label “Cinema Camera” or to own a “true cinema camera”? What are the requirements in term of features for a camera to be labelled cinema camera? How many people when watching a movie will argue if the camera used was a “Cinema Camera” or not? Lastly, does the label “Cinema Camera” make the output or end product more legit or professional?

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

no one watching really cares however the studio producing the movie cares A LOT. the requirements are tricky to explain in a comment and are kinda murky however it basically comes down to form factor, ability to keep the sensor at a certain temperature, and quality/dynamic range.

[@WatCharles]

needs more haze

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

always 🫡

[@StephenHerron]

And yet your highlights are super blown out. If you think a camera makes you a good dp, you have a lot to learn.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

naw it's legit not overexposed on my waveforms. get a new monitor maybe.

[@Kalimforgetthen]

Red Dragon 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

🐲🐲🐲

[@SmellyAlways]

My only complaint about owning a dsmc1 camera (epic mx) is the difficulty to find certain accessories!

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

a fair and valid point but a lot of dsmc 2 accessories work with the dragon-x 6k!

[@ianhamlett8839]

Definitely avoid the FX3 unless you're making cheap SciFi like The Creator (2023). If you want your corporate talking-head videos and KZbin ads for local businesses to really pop, you need them to look better than The Creator (2023) or you'll get laughed out of the industry. I shoot all of my stuff on 65mm IMAX.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

so real. it’s honestly 65mm IMAX or nothing tbh. everyone else is a poser fr

[@earnieboy54]

I appreciate the different takes. But that’s it. This channel offers a lot of information but the delivery and perspective are a miss. Especially with the other video titled something like “why you projects don’t look like movies and never will”. I was foot out the door, now I’m out. RED cameras, even the older ones you mention were famous for issues that DSMC addressed and the media alone is insane still.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

storages comes with most used kits so not really an issue tbh 🤷‍♂️. just the price of red. everyone is welcome to pick a different camera

[@earnieboy54]

@@WhiteJadeProductions eBay says differently bruv.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

@@earnieboy54 just typed "red dragon 6k kit" into eBay and the first three listings had media lol

[@SimonSezSo]

I'd love to see that "other video" on BRAW.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

got a comparison coming out soon!

[@sulimankhan8322]

hi sir i have a question. if i have to buy a camera in say next 2 to 3 years which camera would be best for high end cameras i am on budget though cant afford allexa mini or sony venice .

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

tbh it very much depends on the work you do. in the 2k range you could get something like the FX 30, or the Lumix S5 iix, or even the black magic 6K full frame. If you want to spend closer to 4K, you could get the black magic pyxis, the Sony FX, 3, or an old red camera, like the Raven, Scarlet, or dragon. you could spend a little more than $4000 and get a used red Komodo as well.

[@sulimankhan8322]

@WhiteJadeProductions no i can spend upto 20000 and want to make high end movies.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

for actual movie making i’d rent a camera

[@sulimankhan8322]

@WhiteJadeProductions but say you are taking 1 to 2 months shooting and u rent alexa mini still it will cost round around 24000 us dollars. Then why not buy one

[@RoadSurferOfficial]

You spent a ton of time editing this and absolutely no time color grading. Everything look baby puke green 🤢

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

well all the example footage isn’t graded lol. and i have real work to get done tbh🤷‍♂️

[@polymorphcomputers]

Sony boasts 16bit linear recording but internally packages that information into a 12bit ProRes container, which hard limits the capturable stops of light to 12stops, because of the Analog Digital Converter (ADC) not being able to cram in all the light data from the promised "15" stops on the low end into a container that only allows for 1/4th the data 16bit would give you. This is an issue on all modern hybrid and as you described newer "cinema" hybrids and some REDs too, because they'll operate with a 14bit ADC for photos but switch to a 12bit ADC in video. Noise reduction, oversampling and particularly Sony's 12-14mp sensor designs, where they have a quad bayer sensor which bins 4 pixels into 1 value, or REDs highlight reconstruction will cheat you a bit more Dynamic Range on a Xyla chart by 1-1.5 stops, but a 12bit ADC will always limit your captured pre-bayered light information to 12 stops even if the sensor is capable of much more.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

bro actually understands ahaha!!!

[@MrJan2012]

just get the Blackmagic ff or the Pyxis, you can't get a better looking 6k image for that price, especially with that bm colour science

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

I debated it but the red has better frame rates, dynamic range and personal I prefer red colors. the Pyxis is an amazing camera tho!

[@AesirViking]

The problem with your reasoning is that you only focus on the brand's perceived status - like if we should buy a RED camera not for its specs, quality, "rare" features like global shutter, but rather due to the RED letters on the body, so that we could boast having the "true cinema" camera. I don't think it works that way. A camera is a tool - you should look for its specs, its ergonomy, see if it fits your own use cases, and then make an informed decision. I know a fair share of filmmakers who own REDs, yet still choose the FX6 for everyday scenarios, because the workflow fits their needs better. If anything, I'd rather go for Komodo X, as it's less bulky, up-to-date technologically, and still retains the RED codecs and the global shutter features - even if some people wouldn't call it a "true RED" or "true cinema camera" :)

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i partially agree. but when clients are willing to pay more (and they are) status definitely matters. also the dragon is like half the komodo’s price

[@MONSTAdancer]

just bought a classic arri best purchase ever colors are better than any red or sony i have used in the past and is 444 which is bassically almost raw

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i almost bought one over this! great camera!!

[@v3blaxican]

I respect your opinion (And your footage did look good 👌🏾), but respectfully disagree on the "True Cinema Camera" title. By that logic, the Blazars are not "True Anamorphics" because they don't have all the same characteristics of original, vintage anamorphics. Also, I'm not 100% sure on this, but I heard Sony's rated "15 stops" of DR is only if you record 16 bit (really 12 bit) ProRes Raw through an external recorder, but I still wouldn't put it past them to inflate the numbers...

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

by true cinema camera i simply mean it can’t be argued that it is or isn’t one tbh. the fx3 weirdly has better dynamic range when not recording raw because of sonys insanely good noise reduction!

[@noahyv]

wtf disliking marketing dynamic range stops and saying red is better for that shows a lack of understanding about the difference between different ways of measuring and reporting dynamic range... The DSMC1 EPIC Dragon you're shooting on was responsible for a whole generation of earlier netflix originals with sketchy clipped highlights and overly crunchy shadows since there was a period when people were basically forced to use it because of the 4k mandate. I'd be very very surprised if it scored more than 11stops on a xyla chart in imatest at SNR=2 despite the 16.5stops marketing and being able to do around 16 full patch range because of the high ADC bit depth, since those higher stops are pretty heavily buried in noise. Marketing DR stops are usually just full patch range, not SNR=2 which is just an arbitrary noise threshold that CineD uses to oversimplify their often somewhat poorly controlled results. That thing can barely handle a real iso800. Reds old calibration said iso800 when it was at what every other camera was was more like iso400 and most people didn't like to push them past "iso640" which was actually more like iso320 on an arri/sony...

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

full patch range is 21 usable is 15-16ish. i’ve used Reds for a number of years. for the price its way more dynamic range than any other camera

[@noahyv]

@WhiteJadeProductions I've owned and shot red cameras for 15yrs and directly tested many of them. Maybe check out my DR tests with Gemini which is far superior to dragon for DR. Red's new cameras are quite good for DR but these days little cheap cameras are far better than most old reds for anything other than the raw workflow, but what is that if it just gives you more noise. You may want to do side by side stress tests before you just assume red has some special sauce these days. No red epic dragon isn't 21stops in any world unless you're using HDRx, didn't you say you found around 15-16 max? But again those numbers are practically meaningless since you'd never be able to use any of those last several noisy stops for much of anything. Maybe you're thinking of phil hollands crazy early weapon (dsmc2) DR tests that used heavy frame averaging and didn't mask glare?

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

naw i’ve tested myself lol. ive used reds for a number of years now and in my side by side tests they consistently beat out any mirror less camera. not that other cameras aren’t great but for what i do this works for me

[@TomKrausMTB]

who cares what a certain camera is “classified” as, get out and shoot! this is a lame video with weird vibes i’m not gonna to lie.

[@bmefilms6879]

hahaha

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

the people who pay me to shoot their commercial care ahaha. so do tv and film studios… like A LOT

[@uptonfilms95]

@@TomKrausMTB Glad to see so many people in the comments saying this. This dude is a lame and so are his videos lol

[@rinik_art]

Any insights on fuji xh2s?

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i almost got one actually! a phenomenal camera and worth the money for sure

[@MODESTYXO205]

If you purchased a camera today for a solo creator who short films, doc work, and travel content, would you choose a Sony Fx3, Canon R5 mark2, or Sony zve-1 any other suggestions? Keep up the good work

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

if you have the money FX 3 no doubt! the ZVE-1 would be my second choice out of the three tho!

[@ma-scalia8629]

I went with the canon R5C somewhat recently and have been loving it. Insanely capable and easy to rig up or down like the fx3. I mainly went with it bc I have RF glass but even if I didn’t have it I think I still would’ve gone with it.

[@Kxng5Jeevy]

I'd say R5C or Lumix S5iix

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

@@Kxng5Jeevy Lumix S5iix is great!

[@TheOtherNolan]

And if the FX3 is too pricy, the FX30 is actually a lot better than people give it credit for

[@Calgothits]

You can’t sell digital babies on a filmic sensor lol you either see it or you don’t 😂 I prefer the F900R and Sony F35 over any of the early reds but the dragon and red one bring those same qualities to higher res ❤

[@nanopixel.studio]

I don't know, this argument everyone keeps making seems elitist and not based on any kind of common sense to me. Why everyone is getting wrapped up in the term "Real Cinema Camera" as if that means something to the final product. If having built in time code, SDI's and internal ND's is the differentiator, then what happens when you put those things on externally? It's doing the exact same thing. The cameras today are light years ahead of what Hollywood was using back in the 80's and 90's and those were real cinema cameras. So what's the difference? Especially when 90% of a production is more importantly in the lighting, blocking, sound and set design. My car isn't a "real race car" but if I take out the back seat, interior, tune the suspension, put on slicks, mod the engine and race it, does it matter what people call it? No, I'm just there to compete and hopefully win.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

it’s about 2 things. 1 keeping the sensor at the same temperature to the exact degree. and 2 being able to have TC, monitors, EVF, wireless video, wireless audio, exact control over all settings, and RAW. its like racing a kitted out supra against F1. good but not built for the specific job. if you’re not shooting TV, film, commercials or docs it doesn’t matter tho

[@AlpacoFilms]

Hey dude great video! Half agree and half disagree. I'm extremely happy that Nikon purchased RED. I am now willing to support them now they're not owned by Jim Jannard who is easily the biggest pile of sh*t in cinema history. Also not a fan of the masturbatory sensationalism that accompanies a company who doesn't actually design their own sensors or processors. Also their awkward RED Magazine actually being cheap SSD that are repackaged and then lying about it and saying it's completely proprietary in design. I think you did overlook Panasonic. Outside of their lumix line they did have the Varicam line which was basically the only option against Arri and had incredibly unique features for a cinema camera. Also you didn't mention Canon at all. Canon C-series do not use any APSC sensors at all. Those are "True" Super-35 as they shoot natively 16:9 or 17:9 aspect ratio (as in the full "open" gate of the sensor is 16:9 or 17:9. Also Canon makes RED sensors so surprised you didn't mention them. It's probably one of the reasons why RED never went after Canon for having Canon RAW-lite and why RED had both the EF and now RF mounts available. I also disagree with your assessment regarding what's regarded as "true" super-35. That's a bit hard to determine when almost none of them similar dimensions to Super-35 film. Canon C70 and RED Komodo Super-35 sits a hair wider than Varicam Super-35 which is the closest to film stock Super-35. Also you state Arri is definitely a Cinema camera when their sensor measures wider and taller being it's a 4:3 dimension which is favorable for a wider range of anamorphic legacy lenses. I do agree with you regarding hybrid cameras though. They are NOT cinema cameras and they were never intended to be. I would definitely still classify the Pyxis as a "cinema" camera as it's does NOT have a photography UI. It does use a "Full Frame" sensor but if they simply classify it as Large Format then you have the same exact dimension as the Arri LF. Because that is what Vista Vision did. They turned the film magazine sideways so they can shoot the film stock in the same direction/fashion as photography 135 film. So I definitely consider all "full frame" cinema cameras "cinema cameras" Again, I definitely love hearing from your perspective! Subscribed my dude! Looking forward to more!

[@AlpacoFilms]

I forgot to mention another small thing. I am primarily in the camp that state story is MORE important than cinematography. Without a good story you just have a polished turd. This is why we have great films made on cell phones or genre pushing films made with Hi-8 tapes and shitty sound.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

thanks dude! as for super 35 in technicality it’s any crop on a 35mm stills image which is weird and would take a 30 minute video to break down ahaha. i did look into some other cameras but for $2,500 red had more features and i am quite partial to the look!

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

i totally agree and have a whole video on why story even makes movies LOOK like movies!

[@hhankx]

Gotta jump in here. Sony fx actually has better DR at the higher iso channel

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

you might be thinking low light SNR but unfortunately no it only has 12.8 stops of DR the dragon has 15-16

[@hhankx]

@ no I was talking about Sony cameras specifically. The 12000 iso has a better DR than its lower base. Yes dragon is greater

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

@@hhankx oh gotcha! I didn't even know that tbh. who did the test for that I'd love to check it out!

[@rumijarl]

Reading all these comments, but no one named the REAL camera to beat......the Magic Lantern Canon EOS M, now were talking cinema camera.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

ahahah true true! I made a video on it about a year ago actually!

[@agustinsaavedra2752]

You are right. The Red Dragon can be found at that price range in eBay, and other Red cameras too. I think that the RBG RAW pixel expose meter is a genius creation for people that want to expose RAW controlling every bit of the noise floor to always have more dynamic range. It's curious to hear people doing bad comments on red cameras when they never ever used that feature. The other curious thing is people talking that RAW is overkill. When every mayor influential colorist and color scientist from the history of cinema (not only what's talked in independent or popular narrative productions) constantly saying that they need RAW to work the best-proper image, in all interviews. Baked-in codecs are going to give more blocks of noise, RAW is going to give mode free pixels noise also informally called digital grain. Blocks of noise are heavier to process with noise reduction, than digital grain. That, and lot of other factual science behind Bayer pattern and else. Some years ago was very difficult to cope with the cost in red storage and other accessories. Now that is changing. And not only because Nikon bought Red, but because red waste so much money and energy on legal claims for the RAW patent to many brands (not only one), being Nikon the Cherry on top.

[@jeanchindeko5477]

Only on KZbin people don’t care about RAW or 6K, as many are using Sony Camera and those features are not available on their camera! If tomorrow Sony start to cheap 6K RAW Open Gate on the FX3 Mk II, the whole KZbin film niche will be asking this to be on all camera!

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

people have bad opinions and leave ‘em in the comments sometimes i suppose ahaha! big fan of Red

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

it’s true most people here don’t make a living being a cinematographer so they haven’t experienced what high resolution, an RAW get you!

[@djisbaws1290]

I think that's because a trained eye that zooms in on an image will notice bad quality. But here's the thing. The audience won't be able to tell. If you do all other things perfectly, no one cares that the skintones are just a little off. I'm not saying it doesn't matter at all, it's just that it gatekeeps people who have less resources and it creates FOMO for people who want to be taken seriously. Video's like this send the wrong message to young filmmakers imho. That you need to spend 4-5k to be an "actual" filmmaker who makes "cinema". I know of more filmmakers who have shot amazing films on shitty camera's according to todays standards. But I also know a lot of filmmakers, myself included, that feel like if they don't upgrade their rigs, they won't be considered professional. Of course, if you shoot on big sets and don't rent an ARRI, what the fuck are you doing? I'm just saying that except for the very, very high end shoots, it genuinely doesn't matter as much. Especially if you don't shoot for the big screen.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

very fair and valid points but you seem to be arguing things that i’m in no way saying in the video lol

[@FilmAndStar]

mediocre footage... you haven't given the dragon justice.... thou it's 16bit raw I've noticed that mirrorless caught up fast... no point caring a hoover when you can have fx3 😇

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

well i didn’t really set up any lights i kinda just hit record lol. if you haven’t ever used a cinema camera i get the place you’re coming from but on set it’s simply a better tool. maybe not as much for solo videographers.

[@FilmAndStar]

​@@WhiteJadeProductions 'cinema camera' 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣!

[@franklarafilms]

He needs to learn how to color grade

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

it’s not color graded lol. The point is to show the raw footage.

[@dp_zee]

Red is a huge mistake

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

not when i get paid more to use it 🤷‍♂️

[@DavinciHD_]

What's your opinion the RED Raven 4.5k DSMC2 Kit? Ive been really eyeballing them lately and thinking about Sniping one . Love the Channel. Just Subscribed

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

I still think it's a great camera and definitely usable! I'd compare it to other cameras in it's price range and see if it's worth it tbh!

😅 no lo sé, no estoy convencido. Pero gracias.

[@tynanmedia7785]

Yes and then when it bricks, you have no support available. Red media is also awfully expensive and not readily available.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

they are legit known for not just breaking (unlike sony cameras with their random updates lol) media also comes with most kits and is very much readily available lol.

[@IMakeFilms-p8y]

Amazing!

[@aytothemm.1035]

Nobody want that slow, big chunky piece of crap 😂. I’m fine with an fx3 and it’s 10bit. Esp once we get the form west for Braw this year coming. Small and compact

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

that's why I got it lol. larger and more ridable and better suited for things like steadicam, jibs, and dolly's lol. not that the FX is bad but there is a reason these cameras cost 50K at release lol

[@aytothemm.1035]

@ I been doing this for over 8 years. The cost that much because they had a monopoly on the raw science stopping other companies from putting raw in their systems. 2. Ppl we under the impression that if you camera was bigger it ment more clients. (Thats later been debunked as a lie) Now I will admit it comes down to your type of work. If your actually shooting feature films then ill go with it for the steadicam reasoning. But if not its really out dated and unnecessary

[@poti732]

Whats up w the negative comments? The info is correct. The DR of the dragon if u measure it properly is better than anything in that pricerange that also has 4-6k as well. Old alexas have a terrible workflow , they are bulky and big ,also 4k is the standard now, everyone wants AT LEAST 4k . This has internal raw unlike some “”””””cinema cameras”””””””. I think youtube brainwashed ppl to not know what features u need for a cinema camera , they just go by. “ oh he labeled three lumix gsh38848397hckdnr in his video as a cinema camera, it must be correct.

[@WhiteJadeProductions]

ahaha u nailed it lol. hobbyist videographers think they’re a dp and just don’t know what they’re talking about 🤷‍♂️