A View from the Rear: The Story of the Whitson Observation Coach [UK Bus History]

[@ManxAndy]

You’re videos are superb Jeffrey, not to long, not to short, but always full of the relevant information needed to make it interesting and informative….and ultimately, watchable….Thankyou…👍👌🇮🇲

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thank you very much for the very nice comment!! I'm really glad you find my videos interesting!!! Thanks for watching!!

[@georgesmacd]

You're so right - they did look superbly elegant. I'm told that I was three years old when I first saw one, and I called it "a bus and a half". The name stuck in my family and at Christmas 1950, I received a gift of the newly introduced Dinky Toys model no. 29f. Dinky later renumbered it as no. 280 and carried on making it till 1960. So Dinky made it for a lot longer than Whitson did.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Oh, that's interesting, that Dinky kept producing that model years after the real thing wasn't! Thanks for watching!!

[@koppijn1234]

In germany a concept called anderthalb decker or 1 and a half deck bus was in use . Back part was double deck , front single . One in trolley version is the trolleymuseum stanfort

[@towgod7985]

It is a true shame that no-one saved these lower volume coaches from around the world. There are a few museums that do, but very few. Great video. Cheers.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, it's a shame none were saved! Thanks for watching!!

[@highpath4776]

​@@JeffreyOrnsteinat least an inter station cub survives.

[@NickRatnieks]

Jeffrey, it's great you have mined all these veins of pure gold with your videos- I hope you discover more. As kids we went on long distance coach trips as it was cheaper than by train. This documentary on YT made a while back relives those times. I don't know if you have watched it but it is a gem. This is the headline to find it: The Golden Age of Coach Travel - (BBC Timeshift Documentary Series 10 Episode 6)

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you like my videos!!! I think I've seen that program before, I"ll check it out again, thanks for the info!! Thanks for watching!!

[@geebs76]

I enjoyed learning about these unique buses. I had never heard of them.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@charlieOkeene]

As a relatively local lad with an interest in commercial vehicles, I'm blown away by Whitson having premises in Simpson, just north of Heathrow, yet I'd never heard of them until watching this great video!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really happy you found the video interesting!! Thanks for watching!!

[@royweblin9561]

Hi Jeffrey I have looked in my cabinet and have many observation coaches probably 22 Double deckers I have dozens of those in various conditions colors and logos Love your channel 😊

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you enjoy my channel! Wow, 22 observation buse? That's some collection! Thank you very much for watching!!

[@ls6882]

I love your vast research on all the videos you do but more so as a Brit towards your videos on UK buses and coaches

[@ls6882]

I learn so much more from those type of videos especially Jeffrey and I love how it's from even somewhere not on UK

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thank you so much for your very positive comment - much appreciated! Thank you for watching!!

[@jackpayne4658]

That Whitson makes me think of a vehicle that's been seriously rear-ended in a collision, but very skilfully repaired.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, I can see what you are saying! Thanks for watching!!

[@robt2151]

Actually, it reminds me of two turtles mating.

[@Guitar6ty]

2 Whitsons used to be parked out side of Speke Airport latterly John Lennon Airport. Probably ex Burtonwood vehicles. Excellent presentation.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! Thank you very much for watching!!

[@peterwainwright576]

Jeffrey Many thanks, very interesting as ever!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello Peter! I'm glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!!

[@jeffclark2725]

Those are, and were cool coaches, i have seen several here in the USA, did not realize ho many smaller versions ere built in the UK, very ellagant there, White wall tires, fender skirts on the rear, Chrome on the front, thumbs up, great video

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, they sure were nice buses!! Thanks for watching!!

[@cedarcam]

Another well made video. I did not know much about these vehicles and used to think they were airport busses Still have a battered Dinky in cream and red stripe, and think there could be the grey one as well, I know we had both on them.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Glad you liked the video!!! Thanks for watching!!

[@smet145]

I thought the coach in the last video was weird and interesting, but this is a whole other level 😉 Great video, Jeffrey 👏

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video!!! Thanks for watching!!

[@leopoldbluesky]

Great, thanks Jeffrey!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really happy you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!!

[@johncourtneidge]

Thanks Jeffrey!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello John! I'm really glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@1701_FyldeFlyer]

Very interesting subject, Jeffrey and yes, I have 2 of the Dinky Whitson Observation coach but never knew its back story!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm glad you liked the video! And it's great that you have the Dinky models! Thanks for watching!!

[@swanvictor887]

Amazing....another new name for me. Great research Jeffrey, really top quality content, thank you.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm very glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@johnledingham852]

Thanks again Jeffrey. I thoroughly enjoy your channel. And I enjoy seeing the enjoyment you get out of the research and time you put into this project. You are gathering appreciative followers globally. To be more correct, gathering friends!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thank you so much for the very positive comment - much appreciated! I'm very happy you like my videos!!!! Thanks for watching!!

[@crabbymilton390]

Yes it’s unfortunate that they were scrapped. Very unique and beautiful coach. I would imagine the inspiration may have come from railroad coaches. Keep these coming Jeffery.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm very glad you liked the video again!! Thanks for watching!!

[@johnjephcote7636]

I have a distant 1950s memory of dark blue BOAC airport 'buses/coaches with the raised rear part. (Not the AEC ones that were part of the London Transport fleet that you shewed-I saw most of those).

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, I think I have seen pictures of those, but only in black and white. Thanks for watching!!

[@robbiestruys9127]

I knew abt the classic Greyhounds ( had the Matchbox model) but didn't know about these earlier models...quite a treat. Thx !

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@dublodad7367]

I have a dinky toy one, Jeffery. Mine is cream with red flashes, the alternative livery. Got it in the 1950's

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Awesome you have one!! Thanks for watching!!

[@keithjackson8076]

Thank You Jeffrey for yet another well researched and presented upload on a fascinating subject.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello Keith! I'm really glad you found the video interesting! Thanks for watching!!

[@grahamdavidcowley]

In Germany, Neoplan built a observation coach on its FH11 chassis. The company was more formally known as the Gottlob Auwårter Karosserie und Fahrzeugbau GmbH u. Co. in Stuttgart. Bussing was another company making "one and a half deckers" as they were sometimes called in Great Britain, with the Bussing NAG 5000T Aero, the TU7 Aero (as a service bus), the TU7 Hochsitzer (literally high seater), and finally the Prasident Aero Anderthalb. Another company was Krauss-Maffei in Munich with its KMO140 Halbdecker (halfdecker). Krupp of Essen built the O10F4 Aero and Gebr. Ludewig GmbH, also of Essen, built the 0317 Aero Anderthalb-decker on a Mercedes Benz Chassis. A later version was an urban bus built for Deutsche Bahn. Vetter built a similar one, again on the 0317 chassis. The Faun 07V Aero Condor was built for the Rhein-Ruhe Express, which ran between Dusseldorf and Berlin. The trolleybus (or OBus) was built originally on a Henschel HS562E chassis and ran for Aachen as its Number 22. It is at Sandtoft Trolleybus Museum in Doncaster, England.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for the info about the German buses. If If can find info on them, maybe I'll do a video in the future. Thanks for watching!

[@theenergyflowtribejamesbro1302]

So often, particularly in the USA, the Dinky Toys buses and coaches are often thought of as the imaginings of the model maker designers. In truth, every model was based on real prototypes such as the Maudslay Marathon III with the Whitson bodywork. The same story can be found with the BOAC coach, a Harrington integral on Commercial running units. It is the rarity of the real that has given rise to the mythology of these. In many ways it is thanks to Dinky that these elegant coaches remain more than just a memory. Certainly a beautiful stylish design complemented by the AEC and Maudslay radiator that seemed to add to the visual appeal. The companion Dinky Luxury coach would lend itself well to a create a model of one of the TillingsTransport AEC Regal IIIs of the early 50s. Thank you for these interesting videos.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Glad you liked the video! Oh yes, you are so so right! Americans think these are some sort of imaginary buses - mainly because they don't exist here!!! LOL! Thanks for watching!!

[@jadeboswell-rz2ly]

Hi Jeffrey, great video. Elizkeith model shop has three 29F's for sale £9 to £11.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Glad you liked the video!! Good prices for the 29F! Thanks for watching!!

[@markfinney4157]

Hi Jeffrey, I love buses and coaches especially British designs of the 30's - 70's. Your videos are brilliant and full of fasinating facts. Please keep doing these programmes and may I suggest a feature on the under floor single deck S6 - S12 Midland Red designs of the 1950's. Regards Mark.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello Mark, Thank you so much for the very positive comment, much appreciated!!! Maybe a Midland Red video in the future!! Thanks for watching!!

[@1D84down]

Morris Motors had what you might call an observation coach built in 1961 for their works band, the raised rear section being used for carrying their musical instruments and with seats for 30. Wadham built the body and 14 LFC has survived into preservation, being a roadworthy exhibit at the Oxford Bus Museum

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for the additional info on the band bus, very interesting! Thanks for watching!!

[@1D84down]

@@JeffreyOrnstein and thanks to you for covering such an interesting subject. The Dinky Toys Whitson was a huge seller, even if the real ones weren't and I still have one. Talking with one of the lads at the Oxford Bus Museum (also on the same site as the Morris Motors museum), he called the raised section of their bus 'the poop deck' and also said it was quite noisy to drive. But there you go, safe in a museum and ready to roll

[@NickRatnieks]

Very interesting. I can remember as a kid, Dinky Toys had an observation coach in the catalogue. I have just looked on eBay and there is one in mint condition for £225!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Glad you liked the video! Oh my gosh - I knew there would be a premium for these models today, but wow, that's expensive! Thanks for watching!!

[@kevinduggan3275]

Hi Jeffrey, in the late 1950s/early 1960s Liverpool Corporation Passenger Transport (LCPT) sent four Crossley-LCPT bodied Leyland Royal Tiger buses, SL171-4, to Metro Cammell and had them completely re-built into 1.5 deck 41 seat coaches for use on the service from Liverpool City Centre to Liverpool Airport. They were painted in a two-tone blue livery (LCPT buses were normally dark green), renumbered XL171-4 and branded 'Airporter'.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello Kevin! Thanks for the info about the LCPT buses! They're quite interesting and odd! If I can find enough information on them, I may do a video about those buses. Thanks for watching!

[@Phil-oj5nr]

Saw a few of those observation coaches, and owned the Dinky Toy model in the 1950’s and ‘60’s. I collect model buses and taxis having worked in both industries, but seem to have lost that observation model! That collection now resides in PICTON, South Island, New Zealand.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello and thanks for watching!!

[@Suprahampton]

Nice mention of the AEC 4RF4 used by BEA

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Yes, couldn't leave it out! Thanks for watching!

[@johnledingham852]

Hey Jeffrey, tell us more about the circular inset photograph of you that we see during your on-screen comments each program. When it was taken, and what you were doing with yourself at that period of time. You'll remember because you were there Jeff!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! That picture was taken at work a number of years ago. I have since retired from that job after 31 years. Thanks very much for watching!!

[@glenjones6980]

What a shame none are in preservation as they are a really beautiful example of design. The body lines flow so well and it's a real head turner.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Oh yes, it was a very attractive vehicle! Thanks for watching!!

[@raypitts4880]

ealier comments say there is one in the oxford bus museum wnos tight

[@davidjones332]

I've still got the Dinky model! In the late 1940s the Royal Air Force and BOAC took delivery of a number of 20-seat observation coaches on Commer Commando normal control i.e. bonneted chassis. I'm not sure who built the body on those, but the Yorkshire Air Museum at Elvington have one fully restored in RAF colours, and I've an idea there's another one knocking about somewhere. There was another interesting one-off, a Morris with a Wadham Stringer body built in 1961 and registered 14 LFC specifically for the use of the Morris Motor Works Band. That is in the care of the Oxford Bus Museum.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for the info...I'll look into these other buses you mention! Thanks for watching!!

[@derekantill3721]

I have never heard of these Whitsun coaches. A bit more education from you Jeffery. ❤

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm really glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@NickRatnieks]

It seems BOAC had Commer observation coaches that were somewhat similar- the vehicle was normal control and not very big. A comment at the photo mentioned that South African Airways had similar vehicles. "The coaches had large luggage areas downstairs with 16 seats and only another 18 upstairs."

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Yes, I believe I have seen pictures of those while doing research! Thanks for watching!

[@StephenAllcroft]

A large batch of these were ordered by the govenment in 1945 for delivery at the end of the war, the chassis was the Commer Commando, which had the same engine as General Montgomery's Humber staff car and the bodywork was by Park Royal Vehicles, I have read various accounts of the order size, 90 or 100 which were spread between three UK airlines , SAA and the Royal AIr Force. An RAF one is restored.

[@DavE-bh8lz]

Manchester Corporation also had a fleet of the "BEA" type vehicles. They were Leyland Royal Tigers with bodies built by Bond & Burlingham.

[@davidjones332]

The first batch of six were Royal Tigers, all with Burlingham frames, but three were finished by S H Bond. There was a second lot of four on Tiger Cubs which were all Burlingham.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for the extra info about the BEA buses! Thanks for watching!!

[@ROCKINGMAN]

There are quite a few one and half deck buses made in UK. The Maudslay, AEC, Foden, Leyland buses shown here look dated. The Greyhound Scenicruiser shown at the start always fascinated me. It looked great, an American icon. Had a toy of one by Matchbox as a child. Trailways in the US was a rival, I think to Greyhound. I hope you can do a mini-doc on those. Much info on these one/half decks. Good little documentary.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm glad you liked the video! Eventually I may do a mini-doc on the US observation buses. Thanks for watching!!

[@ROCKINGMAN]

@@JeffreyOrnstein Great. Look forward to that one. I must say the original Routemaster is my favourite vehicle of all time.

[@tooleyheadbang4239]

@@ROCKINGMAN Yes they certainly look 'dated'. They look like somethng from the late 'forties or early 'fifties.

[@carabara3947]

Hi Jeff Hope You Are Well I Remember Vanhool In The UK Had Their Version Called A Vistadome

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I'm fine! Thanks for the Vistadome info...looks like an interesting bus - maybe for a future video! Thanks for watching!!

[@StephenAllcroft]

It was Whitson's showing the Foden Observation Coach in New York that led to the USAF order. Crossley chassis were chosen because the USAF had been impressed with the Crossley four wheel drive lorries used by the RAF, but it was stipulated that the front resemble the show Foden coach as nearly as possible. This frontal design was a trademark of Foden so I can imagine the annoyance both at Crossley in Stockport and Foden in Sandbach a few miles to the south. Many UK bus fans insist they are Fodens until presented with the evidence, very little identifiable as Crossley is visible. The last raised rear floor vehicles I can find for a UK operator were for Liverpool Corporation. In 1954 they ordered some Leyland Royal Tigers which had bodyframes by Crossley and were finished in the Liverpool Coropration coachworks, four of these had front and rear doors when they entered service in 1956, about the last new Royal Tigers anywhere as the Worldmaster had launched in 1954. All six were tried to see if they could substitute for a double decker (as single decks could be operated driver only then but not doubles) but the results were not satisfactory. The single door pair were re-purposed on a central shoppers service for a while while the other four were turned into coaches to operate services to Speke Airport and the terminals for ferries to Ireland and Man, this involved a new roof and half internal floor supplied by Metro-Cammell to Liverpool Corporation drawings, the rebuilding done by Metro-Cammell at their Elmdon plant on the Perimiter of Birmingham airport. The reason I have avoided the phrase Observation Coach for these is observing anything clearly from them would have been a struggle, very on-trend for the early 1960s, they would not have looked out of place in one of Gerry Anderson's puppet shows. XL171-4 (SKB168-171) were dramatic but not elegant and the front of the raised section had a sharp inwards taper and a narrow forward raked front screen and two diagonal sidescreens. The window at the rear was also raked back sharply and a multi-pane lantern windscreen something like a Netherlands bus or a US New Look was fitted and the two leaf power door was replaced by a solid coach door, as many fixtures fittings and glazing were re-used as possible and they sat 44, working unitl the mid 1970s. SKB169 is restored. I have the Dinky Maudslay Observation coach (and have restored one for a Museum I volunteer at) I also have the Matchbox BEA Regal IV and a couple of the Oxford Diecast Commer Avengers. Although Whitson's were unarguably the most elegant, the largest number built were by Park Royal.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Thanks for the additional info on the USAF versions - very interesting! Oh yes, SKB168-171 were quite interesting!!! Maybe a video on that one day! Thanks for watching!!

[@bobwalsh172]

It's arguable that the concept survives partially in most kinds of underfloor rear-engined bus: thr roof isn't stepped but the internal floor is - less so than in an observation coach, but enough so that you do get a noticeably better view of the world from the rear seats.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Interesting comment on this type of bus! Thanks for watching!!

[@highpath4776]

I have a bit of a thing about Bluebell coaches of the Clapham south london area, i think they used their observation ciaches on tours of Scotland

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! It would be interesting if they did! Thanks for watching!!

[@mootpointjones8488]

There could be one left on a RAF base that's still used by the USAAF in the UK, fingers crossed 🤞

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Maybe there is! That would be great! Thanks for watching!!

[@biker683]

I had the red and grey Dinky model. Too bad I no longer have it………would never had guessed it would become a collectable…..

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Oh wow, must have been nice to have one! Thanks for watching!!

[@timbounds7190]

Interesting- thanks. Many of today's coaches might be described as 'observation' coaches as they have the passenger compartment high up over a luggage compartment. There are even semi-double decker designs with a few seats at lower level, possibly in a conventional pattern in or in a central or even rear lounge, with the main seating area on an upper deck. Of course, these are all great for the able bodied, but the higher decks are difficult to access for those with mobility issues, so such people can feel like they're second class citizens!

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Interesting analysis of these types of buses! Glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@mavikchen10]

Oxford Diecast in the UK produce a 1/76 and 1/148 Commer Commando observation coach in various airline liveries

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Must be nice models! Thanks for watching!!

[@raypitts4880]

my mate had one for carrying e type jag to exhibitions we called it lesies bus he was a test driver for jaguar drove with fangeo s moss g hill and other big names in the 60's

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Sounds interesting that at least one was turned into a car-carrier! Thanks for watching!!

[@ronparrish6666]

It almost looks like 2 bus's were doing something naughty at night

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, that's right!! Thanks for watching!!

[@davidhulls7959]

Hi Jeffery, have you looked at the Optare City Pacer?

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! I may do a video on the Pacer evenutally! Thanks very much for watching!

[@carabara3947]

Cant Beat The Plaxton Viewmaster With A Bristol Dome On A Volvo B58 Chassis

[@jamesfrench7299]

At least there is a pictorial record of their heyday.

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Hello! Oh yes, you are right - there is a book on the subject! Thanks for watching!!

[@SlimTallDave]

Your voice sounds like A.I. 😅 but a great video presentation 😊

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

LOL, glad you liked the video! Thanks for watching!!

[@JTA1961]

Brits love the upstairs/downstairs thing... only the "upper class" got the view

[@carabara3947]

What About The Big Bus Movie Based On A Neoplan Jumbo Cruiser

[@carabara3947]

What About The Scania Metropolitan

[@superted6960]

The dinky model is currently freely available on ebay

[@JeffreyOrnstein]

Yes, you're right, it sure is! Thanks for watching!!

[@grandaddyoe1434]

Many are usually for sale cheaply at toyfairs around the country. Play-worn, of course, but they'll last for ever.