A Week of Perils in Paradise: Metagame and Balance Thoughts

[@So0L_]

Hydration Station shouldn't revive Mechs since they don't need water.

[@domotoro3552]

what if they use it as coolant?

[@C3l3bi1]

@@domotoro3552 they use refrigirant as coolant not water

[@NightWing1800]

@@C3l3bi1 It's fantasy, Dave. The mechs could be using dragon sweat as coolant for all we know.

[@sathrielsatanson]

@@NightWing1800 I always laugh my head off when people start to lawyer CCG cards against reality :P

[@LiveErrors]

@@NightWing1800 the dragon in the hydration station art probably wouldnt apreciate that

[@IanBooth21]

The best in the business. Great recommended changes, and I loved hearing your opinion on the recent philosophy Team 5 has had around quick balance changes/nerfs/buffs. Thanks for the video Kibler!

[@poukaflame7075]

It blows my mind on what cards are hit with the "not less than 1" and which one's aren't.

[@cdm8909]

Summoning Portal be like

[@AidanWR]

It's most likely because the cards that reduce things by more than one are seen as "strong," but the ones that only reduce by one "aren't as strong." It all depends on the meta and what cards are in it, but sometimes reducing by one is just as powerful as reducing by 4

[@murlocaggrob2192]

They should standardize "but not less than (1)", no matter how bad the cost-reducing card is. If the card sucks, it was either going to suck regardless or they prevented something stupid from happening.

[@jimmygott]

It's like they didn't learn from Azerite Scorpion lol.

[@Mercer0516]

I believe it should be a baseline rule, with exceptions where appropriate. Almost anytime the game breaks, it's because a deck can cheat out an obscene amount of value for practically free.

[@DuckTheDoge]

Fantastic change recommendations imo! Especially lamplighter to 5 making sense with Sonya OTK's and brewmaster mage without totally nuking the card

[@arch1q892]

Yeah bounce effect not good at least slow down a bit

[@leeartlee915]

I disagree and here’s why. Lamplighter is a win condition for decks that cannot cheat the card out several times in one turn. I’m thinking of Mage and Shaman. So this goes back to the age old question: why can Rogue replay a powerful minion 4 times in one turn? Oh, what’s that, shadow step is a piece of shit card that should be banned for life? Well gee, that seems like a reasonable change.

[@pistolmen1]

What a trip it has been. Here I am in 2024, 5-6 years after I last played Hearthstone and eagerly waited for each Kibler video, finding myself being recommended this video and considering getting back into the game. Ah, the nostalgia for those days of quest paladin and Frostlich Janna, slow, controlled and fun games of Hearthstone

[@kevinphillips4008]

Glad to see these type of videos from you again. (opinion on the state of the game) They have been missed. Thanks!

[@healthertsy1863]

You're 100% right, Brian! Exactly my thoughts! Hope the ones who must hear you will and act. Enjoyed listening to you

[@GL-ML]

I kinda wish they'd make a sweeping set of changes about how the 'graveyard' works in Hearthstone, I kinda hate that you're able to resurrect a minion multiple times (or resurrect multiple copies of it) when it has only died once.

[@dodododatdatdat]

Thats a really great point!

[@johnpaulcross424]

And they had the perfect opportunity to with the introduction of DK and corpses!!

[@corvo1324]

*Banish after use

[@cosmicdumpsauce9470]

True. I also think the game should never have 0 mana cards unless it is specifically made that way. It should just be implied when a card is able to reduce another card, it cannot go below 1. For the most part, things need to cost mana.

[@paperknigth2263]

They honestly should add a Graveyard to HS. And they once said they would if there was a "set that really makes sence to add it" and that set already happen, and they didn't do it, so looks like they can't, cause HS is a Spaguetti coded game after all. But even if they change that rule, Zilliax dies twice cause it has Reborn. So there should be two Zilliax in the Graveyard anyway, and keeps multipliying every time it dies, unless you put a clause that says that Reborned minions don't go to the Graveyard, but we are playing Magic the Gathering at that point. It's probably to much to ask for a game that took 9 years to learn how to target two minions at the same time with one card.

[@FidelCashFlows]

Haven’t watched your videos since like 2015 you’ve def look wiser haha but glad to see one of the OG HS creators still around.

[@louishague1878]

As always, spot on meta-analysis and recommendations from Kibler!

[@jayp25]

100% agree with all of your key points. Thank you for iterating it so well and I hope the devs see this.

[@BearvsTrout]

Very well-articulated analysis as always, good one B!

[@Arcticfox030]

God kimbler this is why your great you have said all the things i have been feeling in an acurate and easy to understand format while being articulit and concise.

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Because he is MTG and HS veteran

[@aramisscabott6747]

Lamplighter at 5 is how it should have always been. Is fairly powerfull for a neutral burn card and is a great finisher still. And then will be less easy to bounce it to your hand or even throw two of them in the same turn.

[@yusufbayram682]

All the changes you offer are incredibly great. I was thinking same way about all this cards, but i didnt knew how to make it better. But your offers are literally truth way.

[@daltonrandall4348]

Extremely well thought out and articulated perspective, and I happen to agree with all of it. I really enjoyed this video much more than the mindless gameplay videos… I hope you do more analysis-type stuff. Thank you for taking the time to share.

[@LaymensLament]

i agree with everything that was said. 30+ from hand in hs is stupid. no build cost zylliax cycling is stupid. fix concierge, lamplighter and the graveyard effects.

[@Brock267]

great suggestions! Blizzard pls listen to this man

[@Cuestrupaster]

Holy shit, this was awesome... it's so refreshing to hear someone having more tame and logical takes instead of the crazy out of this world takes that the community has... who would guess that people who play the game for a living have the best ideas on how to balance it...

[@philbuttler3427]

Kibler is such a stand up guy. Like I've learned a lot of HS content creators just make rage bait about the game to feed the negativity but Kibler goes for a much more constructive relaxed tone.

[@leethackeray7430]

Keep up the great work, Brian. Love hearing your thoughts and seeing your gameplay

[@yyzaxe6357]

Haven’t played the game in years but still enjoying the content. Keep on keeping on 🤙🏻

[@PrincessFelicie]

Oh wow, even mentioning board flood Zilliax! I've been using that one in DK and yeah, it is silly levels of strong. With it being in the shadow of its big brother Unkilliax it is easy to miss, but I absolutely agree it is a problem. Nicely spotted, Kibler.

[@ElrosFlames]

It's always refreshing hearing you talk about balance, you always hit the spot with honest and well thought opinions. I find many will agree with you, as I do. The only thing I'd add is that Zilliax is a staple in every single deck, and not because of synergy, but because is just a powerful card, too powerful imo. Cards like that should simply not exist. The concept of the card is cool on paper, but it needs more identity, so modules that meld with archetypes instead of just making it a generically powerful tool to autoinclude in literally all decks. I really hope they change it drastically...

[@jeremyking6668]

You spoke very clearly and I think found the root of several issues of this current meta. Cheers!

[@DazDing1]

Really good video, love your thoughts and possible changes. I completly agree with pretty much all of them. I like the theme of the new expantion and also the Tourist Mechanic but playing against the top 4 decks over and over kills the fun. In my opinion Pain Warlock and Handbuff Paladin should also take a hit since when everything good gets nerfed they will run away with the meta.

[@walrusdojo]

I think Pain Warlock is most similar to a classic Red deck in MTG. It pays for its torrent of strong minions with a precious resource. In this way I think it is mostly fair. Nerf Zilliax and its WR will likely fall. But its insane that the Paladin weapon hasn't been touched yet and Leeroy should never have come back to Standard.

[@zeleros4027]

As always, it is interesting to hear your thoughts as they are well informed. Their strange aversion to things costing mana just continues to create obvious issues over and over again. I agree with your sentiment on Ziliax overall, in that its not just his reborn version but the aggressive cost reduction one as well. It does feel bad being punished for having a board. However, I think Ziliax is the nail in the coffin for the real issue. Zilliax is enabled very heavily by the sheer volume of minions that can be flooded. For such low costs the board can be flooded and it contributes to the need for non-stop removal and answers. Demon Hunter has been ridiculously pushed down the Pirate route and the decks are frustrating to play against. The amount of damage that can be out putted by the power pushed pirates needs to be scaled back as well to really allow for some breathing room.

[@toymaster40]

I love that (as someone who enjoys building my own decks) I have built an honest version of almost all the decks kibler referenced for nerfs. I have a spell school mage list that uses the paladin tourist cards to help push a Sif finish with mage drink for big finisher turn after 9 mana or more. An elemental shaman list that with lamplighter can facilitate a 4 card hand through the whole game that has an elemental each turn and I've seen it hit 18 damage for skarr/lamp. I am excited for the nerfs that are inevitable just for the dust and my decks will likely be untouched

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

i reallyt like your way of analyzing things, it's not just "X type of decks bad needs nerf" but it actually tries to look at them as decks people both play and face I think some buffs could be great, nerfs are useful but some cards with cool ideas are just trash currently, you might be right on nerfs being enough tho

[@RasmusVJS]

I agree with Kibler that buffs are good, but should wait til we know what the metagame with these dealt with looks like.

[@sergeyzakharov7326]

@@RasmusVJS reno warrior, excavate rogue and dragon druid

[@Blackadder75]

he is a former magic pro tour champion and game designer for other games, he knows his stuff

[@PenguinWithInternetAccess]

@@Blackadder75 i know but it's refreshing to hear someone actually interested in the playing experience of every deck type, whether aggro combo or control, board centric or not

[@connorthornberg]

I like the Hydration Station nerf, but I think Zilliax itself needs to see some kind of nerf. I don't think that the Warrior/Druid version should be able to have both Divine Shield AND Reborn. It makes it impossible to get through for any minion based decks and even a lot of spell based decks because of the Elusive tag. To be honest, I wouldn't mind if Zilliax got its stats tuned down across the board. If they banned Azure Drake for being in every deck, then they have to do something about Zilliax being an autoinclude in every deck.

[@zaxlor]

Looking up on HSReplay, Zilliax is in 54.8% of all decks that are in Bronze-Gold ranks. I don't even think Renethal was in over 60% of all decks before he "had his time". And then you've got the other end of the problem, where I've not seen AFK played once, despite her being a "free" legendary on the paid reward track. Marin gets played, Gorgonzormu sees play, even Incindius and Griftah are seeing play. I don't expect all cards to be equal and equally played, but when certain cards are seeing ZERO play, while others are being seen in EVERY OTHER GAME, I think that's a massive problem with him the game is being balanced and designed.

[@Theman2421]

Honestly if they remove taunt it would go a long way

[@alexkuznetsov9309]

I like your suggestions. Hopefully they apply those. Hydration station will guarantee to summon the munchie everytime if they go with this..its kinda cool.

[@elbardo_lux]

the think about ticking module is that it is also used paired with perfect module for an anti-aggro zilliax, and your change would kill that one.

[@removed3566]

Same feelings here. I have been using that pairing in my slower off-meta deck as a way to stay alive and do the things that I want to do. I guess currently, most people are using that module in aggressive decks to cheat out the +1/+1 buff so if we were to nerf this play pattern, seems more intuitive to make it discount based on your opponents minions. But this might straight out kill this use case entirely. Or maybe splitting it into 2 different module? Or making it counts both sides but taking the highest discount?

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

there are other anti aggro options you can maindeck. shamans need to start using their dmg spells that heal more, and conductivity is just sitting there unnused because its "too slow" still, when all of your lifesteal conductivity setups cost 3 or 4 mana..............

[@sathrielsatanson]

That is what I do not understand. With a condition like "costs 1 less for each minion in play" I would be expecting a defensive Zilliax (something like 4/3 reborn rush, lifesteal). Instead it is a bonkers aggro card.

[@tatshmorningstar8811]

​@@DavidSmith-cr7mbthe amount of times i have used conductivity with the 2 mana heal 5 in minions to have at least 3 chances to discover something useful it's mind boggling that it isn't a known core mechanic for shaman players, i guess it really could be counter intuitive to heal enemy minions, even then you could also conductivity+pop up book and get 6 taunts or at least 4, it certainly feels lackluster at times with the amount of tools every class has to deal with any of the things that shaman can do (except for the triple ragnaros, that shit is cool af and almost always a guaranteed 24 face dmg if executed correctly

[@Cuestrupaster]

Idk... usually control decks have better tools, before the expasion I was playing a lot of double Blood 1 Unholy DK, and my Zilliax was the 9 mana summons copy, and the early game was held by cheap damage spells + Threads of Despair...

[@gorgeouszan]

I had a game against Lamplighter Rogue where despite playing three Dirty Rats and pulling Lamplighter out of their hand twice; they had so many return to hand cards they just kept taking it back and shooting me in the face....and this was only one Lamplighter, even if I managed to destroy it they still had the second. It's a card that simply should not exist; cheap damage to face should never exist because it will always be consistently abusive

[@Bladius_]

Or maybe it's time for shadowstep to say bye bye. It's a constant problem waiting to happen. They should make a similar bounce effect for core and get rid of it. Even just breakdance to core instead of it, would be better.

[@gorgeouszan]

@@Bladius_ shadowstep wasn't the issue. Thats missing the forest for the trees. Breakdance, bounce around, Zola, both brewmasters are all in Standard.

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

i prefer all of those to shadowstep homey

[@sathrielsatanson]

Yes, Lamp[lighter is clearly broken. In Rogue however is it bonkers. But it's nothing new, Shadowstep is creating broken combos since beta. And now with breakdances and Sonya you can play any card ad nauseum.

[@gorgeouszan]

Ya'll are missing the point. Because those all currently exist, nerfing or removing Shadowstep is literally meaningless. It doesn't address the current issues. Not saying I wouldn't want to see a standard without Shadowstep for awhile, I certainly would; but, in terms of what is happening right now it's a symptom not the problem.

[@Starship_X]

good suggestions, hopefully the development team is listening and agreeable

[@mir8651]

Great video. Feels like every time the meta hasn't feels really bad is when the developers can't follow the simple rule of "cards should cost mana" Even as a simple combo Consierge into 6 damage is good on curve. Let alone with spell power and played 6+ times in a turn lol

[@robertseptim3579]

Love this style of video, please do more! I love your input from your vast database of knowledge and lessons learned over the past 10 years of HS. The only thing I dont agree with is that it's a good thing that they're not doing balance changes as rapidly anymore. I understand you make the argument that you gotta let the meta finish cooking before you make any changes but I would argue that you can smell if that meat is rotten or not before it's finished cooking. If they jump the gun on something, they can always just revert it like they've done in the past. Hell, they even most recently did it with that dragon whelp card for druid and no one had a problem. I think it's more of a detriment to the game if they wait too long to make changes because everyday that they wait, is a day they lose more and more active players.

[@battle_on]

Your Nerf list is basically exactly the same as what I was hoping for. You did much better articulating than I would have though.

[@ThePoolo12]

As a warrior main I'm sick and tired of zilliax and brann I want a tempo warrior!!!

[@ShadowRaZeV1]

But Warrior is the only control class left in the game right now.

[@ModestMousekateer]

Blizz just needs to hire Kibler for balancing issues. He's played enough card games at high level in his life that he knows what's too powerful and how to fix that without necessarily killing the targeted cards

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

brian is already on their payroll homie, he spoils cards for them, is invited to elite pre-release sessions, this man is a shill.

[@ModestMousekateer]

@@DavidSmith-cr7mb k

[@jamessawyer8801]

Shadow step is an outlier too. Has been for a long time

[@Grr8jon]

Great video. I miss this type of video.

[@RogueAssassin96]

Lamplighter and Aggro in general always makes me regret getting the tavern pass. After day 1 of the expansion the same sweaty boring smORC just wasted the enthusiasm I had to try Burgle Rogue

[@jasonstaubach6846]

Wow what a banger video didnt hard disagree with a single point

[@damonblack1495]

Pretty much all of these suggestions I have seen elsewhere except the 5 mana 5/5 lamplighter (which is also a good suggestion). Just saying the community seems to be in a lot of agreement that something should be done about the meta game. And it is so weird because when you look at hsreplay the stats seem to indicate were in a decent spot. But the types of decks running the gambit right now are so unfun to play against.

[@vitormelo3295]

Keep up the good work, Kibler

[@ShadowRaZeV1]

Amazing change proposals. Every single one is, at minimum, perfectly expected from me when they come in a week's time. I can see some small other changes, but 'not less than 1', and lamplighter seem to be the biggest play pattern outliers, and the main concepts ruining the feel of the meta at the moment. It's funny to me that especially Concierge was not tested in pre-release by Blizzard themselves, since the turn 2 and 3 combos are some of the easiest to pull off OTK combos that we've ever seen in HS. Your other changes were great as well, as should significantly impact the meta to feel a lot, lot better.

[@Squid-King]

I am rather upset at how accurate the statement is of the set being like stormwind before release. You know a format is unfairly fast or broken if you can die from hand while having Cariel's hero active on the board, or if board based decks have been pushed out because Zilliax spam is the preferred wincon. Another possibility that keeps Lamplighter as a 'fairish' win-con for actual elemental decks is by dropping it to 4 and hitting Sandbox Scoundrel and making its mana cheat only be 2 instead of 3.

[@joerirotthier5409]

I agree with every point you made and love your solutions. Overall, I'd love to see more different decks. If at all possible, not driving players to the same decks over and over again. Right now you know what you are facing and are surprised if even 1 card doesn't fit the the way the deck should be made. I'm hoping for a Meta where people are playing for the fun and gratification of a deck they concocted instead of playing the "best" deck. I know it's a long shot, but I still hope for a meta like that someday.

[@inutamer3658]

That's pretty much what all deckbuilders devolve into. There are plenty of decks you can make that are good enough to be competitive, but the popularity of certain builds snowball to the fact you see them often. The trick is to not be a lemming and just build your own deck that you find fun

[@zeropat0000]

​@inutamer3658 but he wants to not lose 80% of games

[@inutamer3658]

@zeropat0000 I'm legend with a self constructed deck... good decks are important but moment to moment puzzling and skills are usually the deciding factor

[@Dadbod007]

Coming back to hearthstone after about 4 years and seeing white wizard kibler is blowing my mind a little.

[@subfail4810]

100% agree with Zilliax. I play DK and constantly have 4-5 ghouls out and my opponent avoids killing them to get a free Zilliax and still have unused mana

[@synchronium24]

12:36 Speaking of which, I would like to Sonya either nerfed to 5 mana or get a design rework. 14:56 This is a good point.

[@joebarrett29]

I really hope they listen to these ideas. All are perfect in terms of balancing

[@lovetownsend]

All I want is Annoy-o-Trope to be a 7 or 8 drop :p its one of my favorite cards in game and is too much for 9.

[@Minijibbleflab]

There was a clip going around where Lamplighter did over 90 dmg to a warrior in one turn. That should be apparent that the card is not okay.

[@jezzuh9120]

I think your Zilliax fix is pretty elegant. It's so frustrating because they have lifesteal to recover, poisonous to kill any minion you might have, divine shield and reborn for resiliency, AND elusive to reist most types of removal anyways. Honestly just getting rid of elusive would make me happy, so I could at least have the opportunity to remove them once they're summoned.

[@Xratos1991]

For lamp lighter if they change it to if you played an elemental last turn do X amount of dmg. Static so like maybe do 3 dmg. I love the concept of hydration station and boom summoning different minions. I love zilliax, he slots in well with different decks. I used to say if they removed taunt it would balance him out but honestly he’s not that much of a power outlier by imo self with no rez. I built a great Plague tourist dK that runs Razzler Dazzler and climbed all the way to legend with it, and guess what Zilliax is in it because gives me the ability to stabilize and heal while protecting my face.

[@baronkimble5378]

Amazing balance suggestions Kibler ❤❤❤

[@ryanstark5497]

Eff shadow step. It’s a problem every expansion and yet it’s “core” to rogue. Yeah right /s

[@marcellopez200]

I think the biggest problem is being able to generate value out of thin air basically. You should only be allowed to play Hydration Station twice. You are only supposed to play a Legendary card once a game. But there are so many differnet ways to inflate that, and over the years it got inflated so hard that now you can theoretically have an infinite number of those. For example Fizzle into Zola into Snapshot into Fizzle into Zola, repeating indefinitely.

[@soapfoam]

Could make the res effects even harsher - resurrect 2 mechs/3 taunts *that haven't been resurrected this game* (in addition to requiring them to be unique minions as Kibler mentioned). Then you only get 1 ripple of a wave of zilliaxes rather than 3 or so tsunamis of them.

[@djcaks]

Completely agree with everything here *except* the opening comments about the tempo of nerfs. I think all these play pattern issues have been very obvious to everyone playing thus expansion for weeks now, and frankly, that moment you described where you just turn the game off as a result of those events has been happening me a LOT with lamplighter and Zilliax. I want changes faster *especially* when the problems are play pattern anti fun problems. Balance is a less urgent issue except when it’s egregious, ie one deck wrecking everything like galakrond shaman .

[@diapsalmahs]

Spot on Brian! Doesn't take a huge change to make mid-ranged decks viable again. Super aggro, fast unstoppable OTK and UnKilliax are the only play patterns at the moment and neither is fun to constantly face. My only worry is that RNG dependent decks will be good again. I want to play the game, not watch the game play the game.

[@thiagourielbanegaz4074]

i think almost all you said its on point except the ticking mod because it kills the perfect ticking combination, but if you dont do what you propouse i dont know what to do. And also if they do all this changes we need a little nerf to handbuff pala, because it will take over and its a deck with no new cards

[@Ealaniel]

Great suggestions for changing cards - I prefer playing midrange/control board based decks, but thats almost impossible in this meta. Either you die by turn 4 or 5 or you get otk'd from 30 health a little later.

[@Muffloneko]

i wish someone at microsft saw this and put you in the indie dev team, this are the perfect balance changues that we are never going to get, they are going to do the ol classic "+1 mana more nerf" and leave the meta to destroy itself while wondering why is the player count still going down

[@tarlozh7388]

These are really good changes!!

[@rivini4585]

Lamplighter's battlecry should only be able to target minions. Easy fix. For "Unkilliax," Kibler's suggestions are okay, but I would argue replacing reborn with, say, tradeable is the way to go instead.

[@DavidSmith-cr7mb]

I was maindecking bounc effects in shaman for petes sake, yes, when you have bounce being maindecked to try to leverage even more juice from a card as broken as lamplighter, there is an issue. brewmasters are tech, not meta.

[@RznRYT]

I think the design of the new Reno is core of this problem. Mid range players wouldn’t gravitate towards OTK if Reno didn’t just invalidate everything you did for the last 3 turns. I’m not saying he’s the main problem, the mana cheat cards are the straw that broke the camels back. I’d like to see Reno’s “Showdown” mechanic be more flavorful. In other words; instead of it wiping the board completely, remove every minion except for the opponents in the center. Leaning more into the 1v1 high noon duel feel, and allowing players to preemptively counter play Reno. Also, the randomness of the hero power is lazy, not to mention its sheer power . Making the hero power seem like more of a resource than a mode shift would again, make it more fun to play against. Meaning, I think each hero power should be chosen instead of random, and also used up instead of endlessly cycling. Like loading a revolver for a duel. You load up a bullet, fire and that bullet is gone. Once all of the billets are used… then idk revert back to the original hero power. This would allow opponents to track what you’ve used, and allow the Reno user to utilize right power at the right time. I’m just sick of endless value without any work. I miss the days where you needed to set up endless value with things like Deadman’s hand, Augmented Ellek or even Toggwaggles scheme. Make attrition skilled again

[@paulroyal2177]

I agree with BK. Blizzard should avoid making cards that are ridiculous to play against. If my opponent wins, I want to congratulate them -- unless they won with an OTK deck because they won by ignoring the game and just clicking buttons. ... Funky Monky says the current meta *requires* players to only play OTK decks in order to deal with "wall-o-Zilliaxs." I saw him take out maybe 7 Zilliaxs in order to win one game. I was surprised there was the bug that gave resurrection of two copies of a minion that died just once. ... I enjoy this new PiP set. Cards like Zilliax, ETC, and the Tourists bring fun to the deck-construction phase. Cards that gain a conditional battlecry help to slow down games (Nagas, and "If you have another card in your hand that costs 2..." and "If you cast a spell while holding this...", and "If you played an Elemental last turn..."). ... What balance thoughts do I have? The Priest Location that gives them a 1-Cost version of any minion can shut a game down. You can't play Titans or deathrattle minions until you bait out the charges of that Location. It should only target friendly minions. Zilliax should be a utility minion and have alternate, synergistic modules. [Like "Garage Module: At the end of your turn, draw your lowest-Cost Mech." Or "Armory Module: At the end of your turn, draw a weapon." Or "Chameleon Module: Has All tribes."] Shadow Step should read "Friendly minions gains 'Deathrattle: Return to your hand'." Chain-bounce-battlecry as a mechanic is just ridiculous. I saw a video in which a Rogue returned a combo piece, only for the opponent's HIghlander Legendary (Kurtrus) kill it in their hand. That's a very limited way to "play around" your opponent's Control or OTK. Blizzard knows that some kinds of cards are always complained about. Like 0-Cost cards, charge, mana cheat, alternate win OTK, etc. ... And yet they continue to make these troublesome cards.

[@tactiCole_]

What about Zilliax's use as a stabilizing tool with the cost reduction + lifesteal rush module? The only thing keeping slower decks from dying turn 3 to pirate DH.

[@fl3xratgame]

lamp lighter is the same otk as the tourist paladin deck, they just otk in 1 turn and also heals its self to full health

[@joshuacooper6713]

Good evaluation, enjoyed the video

[@joshuacooper6713]

Appreciate the proposed solutions and now just complaints

[@TheRiseOfShad0w]

I also think another deck that is a play pattern outlier is Hand Buff Paladin. Pretty sure it has the higher of win-rates because it can also kill you from hand while also being an aggro deck with massive unanswerable minions. They also have so much life steal that their kinda slow start is mostly negated in full after turn 5-6

[@griffinhunter1720]

right on the money as always

[@medoh368]

Love the video, missed some analytical hs content

[@sabapourrajabian8484]

I would even say since they changed it in battlegrounds for some minions, is to give Zilliax venomous instead of poisonous so it helps reduce its power level a bit.

[@parkerdixon-word6295]

Xlyax is interesting, because I think it was actually a good idea to have the *option* for a Xyliax build that's a sort of "In case of board flood, break glass" was to protect yourself. The problem was that they made that module *also* synergize with *you* having a big board. They made the module play both roles, and that makes it too strong.

[@dash8425]

Objectively, things that are not fun are: Not being able to interact with your opponent, yet it's a core mechanic. Having one class have all of its decks being absolute powerhouses. Knowing that when this specific card is played, even if you are not defeated outright, you will be soon because there is no way to stop it.

[@thewanderer5671]

Perils in paradise is starting to remind me why I quit back when stormwind was released. It’s kinda sad to see hearthstone relapse back into this type of meta. Granted I was having more fun here than I was a couple years back, but the feeling is still very similar. I thought blizzard would’ve learned their lesson but I guess I expected too much. I generally have a big issue with consierge being basically a universal sorcerers apprentice. It’s like they forgot what made that card so problematic to begin with. I also find it baffling that spells can still be discounted to zero despite the fact that they nerfed echo cards to not do that. Which leads to an inconsistency problem with new cards

[@reneserrano1102]

I think giving Zilliax Battelcry: gain Reborn could be another solution for that card. Plus lamplighter is not a huge issue, except for rogue, because of all the toxic cards the class has. If you nerf those cards (shadowstep and break dance) life will become better for everyone 😅

[@Straga_Severa]

Rogue should forever be a broken class, clearly. They will not ever address the core enablers like shadowstep.

[@epicswag100xd4]

i feel like that would make chemical spill kind of an awkward card so idk if they’d do that to zilliax

[@gorgeouszan]

The battlecry reborn would not fix the issue because of how hydration station currently works. You'd still only get one the firs time true; but, each subsequent play would add another Zilliax to the graveyard so you'd summon more and more and more. Granted they all wouldn't have reborn but you'd still have boards of multiple Zilliaxs with rush, poison, elusive, divine shield. etc which is still obscene.

[@ShadowRaZeV1]

That's just not true. Lamplighter is some of the strongest burn we've seen in a long time. Elemental Mage and Shaman are two of the strongest decks in the game. Lamplighter needs a global hit without a single doubt.

[@ShadowRaZeV1]

@@epicswag100xd4 They would never make that change that the guy above is proposing. It's not a good change.

[@christopherbronson3275]

The Prophet. Literally all these changes were made!

[@edu8499]

I hate that Palandin has been the strongest class since last year

[@stevekay90]

Another change they could and SHOULD make is all the "drinks" costing the same, I have no idea why the mage/druid drink costs 1 and the lock/rogue drink costs 3 but all the others cost 2. Blizz have historically kept multi class themes the same cost (Quest/ quest rewards, excavate rewards ect) They could take the elusive off Zilliax too tbh, there are too little ways to interact with it.... let alone 3 of them.

[@paperknigth2263]

I agree with the changes, tho I have other suggestions for the nerfs. *Concierge* to me should add "That didn't start in your deck" rather than but not less than (1), to at least have the card for fun Tess shenanigans, rather than killing the card entirely. Cause this type of cards with the "But not less than 1" clause simply don't work. Tho, If i'm honest, I think the real problematic card is the Mage Drink, just saying. And *Lamplighter* should say (Once per Game) so you keep the finisher aspect of the card, but you can only do it only once. Another option would be find a way to make that the card resets when bounce to your hand, like "Improved by each turn in a row you've played an Elemental while this was in your hand or deck" but thats seems a bit overconvoluted to me. Once per Game is more clean an honest.

[@EpixGaminginc]

Ticking Perfect Zilliax is very important in slower decks against board flood decks, your nerf would destroy that module combo. Taking the Health buff away from Pylon would be the better change imo. Would stop the Showdown into trade the tokens, would also keep boards at their previous AOE breakpoint.

[@aaronbonita2042]

I remember 3 mana 3/3 deal 3 if you played an elemental last turn or 6/5 that does 5. Just make it an elemental tempo card that does static damage at either mana cost tiers. You could make it a 2 mana 3/2 like the shaman murloc card but does 3 if you played an elemental last turn.

[@JimVguard]

I really hope Blizzard is listening to this!

[@tindekappa9047]

Brian's talking about Grim Patron like it was yesterday. Just like my uncle and Vietnam.

[@MrTrhemp]

Why Kibler isnt part of the HS team is astounding. At least as a consultant..

[@BloodyArchangelus]

Because it is all about business. They don’t care about the game. They must earn cash

[@N7of9]

Blizz just needs to hire Kibler.

[@crunchytoast6007]

He worked for them before and quit after the Free Hongkong stuff. It was as a caster but still, don’t think he’s going that path

[@creationzikaz4836]

@@crunchytoast6007 He meant hire him as a designer, not a broadcaster since the video is about card design.

[@MrMcawesomeface]

The reason warrior is even in play is because of rush decks, having something to punish the early rush by walling off with unkilliax is the only reasonable solution. Any time we have rush builds or otk builds lifesteal stall becomes a thing. The issue is hearthstone power creep has gotten so crazy that even a low tier rush deck can take you out turn 4

[@ShadowRaZeV1]

Yup. Ziliax in its current form is the only defense in the game against unbeatable aggro. Control decks need to come back. And quickly.

[@Querterus]

Over all i mostly agree But i would like to see to get the 1/2 pirat nerved because i think in aggro that is there best 1 drop by far because they snowball so fast with it that its not even close. Its like back in the days with undertaker or tunneltrog.

[@DougBartonLHS]

I am frustrated by the amount of card draw across classes. It would be nice for hand management to be important and draw to be a quality of only certain classes.

[@Bladius_]

I think treasure distributor needs to be reverted too. It was already ruining wild and was massively over buffed when pirates were bad in standard. Even if we think Pirate DH will be worse once actual midrange and control exist, distributor is simply just doing too much for a one drop.

[@Bladius_]

Also, 100% personal/selfish wish; buff Hemet and Gilly so I can do something interesting with hunter, even if it's bad. Let me fill my hand with crap and handbuff it. Hemet would probably need - 2 cost to be playable though. It's laughable when you compare him to Cookie who fills the same role as "trade for value".

[@zhuzhong74]

Same issue with Brann. You can’t print such power end game cards and high lethality cards because of the invalidating effect on all other decks. I’d rather them making creative and interesting board shenanigans.

[@KlutchAndJerel]

While I like the flavor of a “concierge” being able to get you “free drinks”, it’s just too powerful

[@zom8680]

Yet a concierge is the front desk operator not a bartender.

[@KlutchAndJerel]

@@zom8680 but they are known to hook you up with perks if you ask

[@notthere83]

I gotta say - I rarely face those unfun decks. Maybe 1 in 5 games. And like you say, the game is very balanced otherwise at the moment. Which has me worried that whatever changes they'll make will result in just a few decks dominating again and make things REALLY unfun.

[@tomislavsarec4168]

Boomboss Tho'grun: "Shuffle 3 T.N.T. into your opponent's deck. When drawn, blow up any player's card in their hand, deck and board randomly". Let's see who's brave enough to play it then...

[@glenngehrs7913]

Wild how Dirty Rat went from tech to absolutely necessary to prevent your opponent from pulling off their uninteractive bullshit