Can Romex Cable be run Through Conduit? National Electrical Code Book

[@scottkolaya2110]

I love how much attention is paid to a fill factor within a conduit theoretically because of trapped heat, but let's just spray foam right over Romex in the walls and insulate the Romex so essentially no heat escapes. That's not mentioned at all in the Code Book.

[@abrelectric]

No, it's not.

[@stepanvinnikov6024]

You have to derate if more than nm cables use 90c table but 60c chart for nm

[@scottkolaya2110]

@@stepanvinnikov6024 And that is in the National Electrical Code Book where?

[@WaguinhonaGringaUSA]

Ok, u can do putting 4-12/2 Romex in a 1” pvc pipe? ( for island) like 7” to wall from island!

[@pld8993]

@@abrelectric It doesn't need to be mentioned because conduit fill has nothing to do with heat. Conduit fill tables and limits are about physical space inside the conduit that will allow the conductors/cables to be pulled without stress or damage. Ampacity adjustment, what used to be called derating, is a way to limit heat when there are multiple current carrying conductors present. Romex does not overheat or generate excess heat simply by being in conduit and yet the myth persists because of lots of youtube videos incorrectly stating that it does.

[@AngusSantander]

Thank you for the clear explanation, and supporting it with actual literature. So often I have to wade through a steaming pile of KZbins to get a simple question answered directly. Bravo!

[@vince6829]

You are an excellent teacher. Thanks for clearing things up. Much appreciated!!

[@ronaldkovacs7080]

What would the requirements be for terminating the conduit where romex enter and leaves a run of conduit? Does there need to be a strain relief or some type of busihing?

[@josueayalallanas7142]

Thank you! Great info Fella! At Min 4:40 you mentioned we need to meet those 2 criteria when transitioning but is actually only one criteria at that point cause then we can apply note 2 wich says that Table 1 only applies only for complete conduit or tubing systems and not for sections used to protect for physical damage. So esentially in that application in particular (when transition from attic to exposed) we might be able to get away without being concerned about perentage fill, altought we might have to derate for the bundling, but then again we might wave the derating by using 310.14 (a)(2) Exception. Wich is Selection of ampacity

[@josueayalallanas7142]

Btw!, where did you get the elliptical cross sectional area of 12/2 romex? The other day i was so courious about how to do the Calc. For knowing what gauge multiconductor cable would fit in a 3/4 pvc pipe wothout ecxeeding 53% but i gave up, i couldnt find any info on the internet and the othe challenge was once i get that measurement how do i convert that into square inches? Shoot! Good luck with that! Right!

[@aaron6708]

I can't get a solid answer on exactly this. I transitioned from 6-3 NMD90 into 3/4" NM flex conduit to go through a concrete wall (sleeved). I kept the conduit and wire going to the sub-panel on the other side of the wall (6 ft away). Carlon says it's good for 4 #6 conductors, but it's sheathed. So am I good because it's an open end conduit for heat to escape? (It's the Grey flex, not the cheap blue stuff - 90 deg C)

[@fuegoman45]

Thank you. Just what I was looking for. Subscribed!

[@abrelectric]

Awesome thank you!

[@sampletaster5093]

I’m an old guy and love this topic. I have argued it many times. You are correct!

[@paulashley3732]

Master electrician teacher James Adams back in action! Yea 👍

[@leemyers8407]

Just what I need, i have to run a wire through an air return in my ceiling of my basement family room. The air return is a sheet metal covering the bay of two joists.

[@davidc9710]

Electricians squeezed 6/3 wire romex into the conduit, while transitioning from, interior walls to conduit behind the stove. They did this because it went through the attic, down a two story wall, and then behind the cabinet. They said it was to code. Should I get this checked?

[@abrelectric]

@davidc9710 if the 6/3 Romex is going outside, in or out of conduit, that is not correct, per the NEC art 334. If you're worried about the quality, have them pull a permit and get it inspected.

[@davidhunt6508]

Wow! I've done this at least 3 times without realizing the issue. All going from house to shed. 1 time was 100 feet long 1/2" conduit buried 18" deep with 12/2 ROMEX. I knew I couldn't direct burial unless using the cable meant for such and using the "caution" tape above it, but I've always figured inside conduit excepted the wet/damp issue. I also never thought about pipe fill when using ROMEX. Have the rules ever been different on this?

[@grangerkuberra5516]

When used in an application for protection from physical damage, like coming out of a drop ceiling to an outlet, i have heard it is only required for derating and not conduit fill

[@abrelectric]

In most day to day applications, you're absolutely right. However, there are times especially, with an inspector, if you sleave the romex more than 24", With more than 3 current carryig conductors, you'll have to delete those conductors

[@rickjans664]

We have white Romex in metal conduit on the outside of the house it's 220 volt hardwired to a air conditioner found that out at the bottom access junction going into the house - so what's the cure ? Remove the Romex outside and run the correct wire out of the house into the conduit to a weather proof box then the wire goes inside to a box and plug the a/c into it I'm sure an electrician did this some 35 years ago , the Kenmore a/c finally gave out so a new one will go in the legal way

[@lawmba]

What type of wire do you need to run through an underground conduit? Let's say for an outdoor receptacle. A popular magazine says it has to be THWN, the w standing for wet, but almost all wire you find just says THHN. Would triwire, which is THHN, be considered okay?

[@abrelectric]

Nope. Look more closely at the jacket or label on the reel. You'll see a MTW, THW or something like that.

[@merica.racing]

Inside a shed would be considered damp location? Shed is 9" from garage and running schedule 40 (3/4") inside shed so romex or no go? Total 15' of wire to 1 outlet, a switch and light.

[@spedc]

Very clear and to the point. Very great video.

[@wittydisplayname1761]

Thank you for the video. I want to add grounded outlets to my house and attic space and fire blocking make coming down the walls prohibitive. I am planning on running six 12/2 UF wires in a 1.5 inch PVC conduit from the outside breaker box down about four feet to the pier and beam space under the house. I have tested it and can fit at least 14 of the 12/2 UF in the 1.5 in conduit. Because I am running only 6 I should be at or below the 40% fill limit. Does this seem correct/Ok to you?

[@jd3497]

Old thread, but what about the homeowner who feeds his sub-panel with service entrance cable, running it in PVC conduit?

[@abrelectric]

Yes. SER is rated for wet and dry locations.

[@WaguinhonaGringaUSA]

Ok, u can do putting 4-12/2 Romex in a 1” pvc pipe? ( for island) like 7” to wall from island!

[@abrelectric]

Yes, if the 1" is Not underground (code considers underground conduit a damp location) and that total run of bundled romex in conduit is less than 24" long.

[@pld8993]

@@abrelectric Underground conduit is a wet location, not damp.

[@dumbcat]

i love EMT conduit. if i ever build a home i want to run everything through EMT conduit. i have this weird fear of someone drilling a hole in the wall and drilling through romex and starting a fire. i would even like to surface mount the conduit if i can get away with it

[@abrelectric]

Back in the 30s and 40s, much of the wiring was done in threaded heavy wall pipe.

[@icanreadthebible7561]

War Story: Inferior Decorator thought that it was great that the builder had installed metal plates inside the wall for her window treatment installer to drill and tap for mounting screws. Actually, nail plates. This did not end well. (I'm sure someone, somewhere has drilled into conduit too.) Hey, I once met a guy that thought that "those solid glass rods" from fluorescent light fixtures were great for hanging clothes on.

[@PPyle]

This is why AFCI breakers are required; to prevent a fire if someone drives a nail or screw through your wire in the wall.

[@jimpennsylvania8092]

@@icanreadthebible7561 wow😂

[@danchiasson]

In Chicago, the electrical code actually requires EMT even for residential. I believe this strict requirement was influenced by the great Chicago fire.

[@rickrutledge4041]

What I have done in the past and have had no problems with the inspection , in a garage I run romax through the ceiling take the sheathing off that's gonna go through the pipe and install a 1/2 inch EMT to romax connector at the top.

[@abrelectric]

That's awesome! And better than 98% of the nightmares I see out there.

[@pdt1980]

Removing the jacket also removes the ANSI makings on the wires. I imagine this affects code however, no?

[@abrelectric]

@@pdt1980 it could indeed. The only advantage to removing the sheath, is the individual wires take up less space. They're still un- marked for temperature rating

[@kenfisher9428]

Exactly what I do as well.

[@bee4pcgoldrule.007]

Yep i do it all the time.

[@rickl6697]

In your example of running wire to a kitchen island underground and that being a damp or wet location, is that in a slab. What about a crawl space where it's under the floor but not under the ground. Thanks

[@abrelectric]

You're right. If it's not underground, and the crawl space is normally dry, then you could use romex, properly secured.

[@katycodella817]

Is the interior of a cargo trailer considered a damp/wet location? It's going in a vending trailer (high humidity area, but liquid tite is water tight 🤔).

[@abrelectric]

That is a great question. Is the interior of the vending trailer normally dry - it's not being hosed down for cleaning?

[@Eec2023]

You mentioned that you're going to run Romax outside of the building and down in conduit? That's a damp or wet location.

[@rg5780]

Thank you for this information. So, if I understand the fill table correctly, I can put 6 individual THWN or THHN #8 AWG cables into a 3/4" NMT conduit. I could also run one 8/3 NM-B romex. If the conduit is in a barn that is not necessarily always climate controlled, are you saying it would be better to remove the outer sheathing of the Romex? If the cable is already pulled, should I un-pull it, strip it, and then re-run it? TIA.

[@abrelectric]

@rg5780 thank you for the question. The real issue is the location: if it's normally dry in the barn, the romex is fine. Removing the sheath doesn't change the rating - I'd leave it be. The fill table is your next gate, and looks like you have that in hand.

[@philgs1]

Do you have any vids on connecting solar panels 240v grid tied to you panel box. Not a lot of watts. Say 700 watts. Just some supplemental watts for the house. You tube says the bottom right side of your box. Any advice. like the new plug and play systems that are becoming more popular. Thanks

[@abrelectric]

I got nothing...however, a lot of the new portable solar generator systems are simple, and seem solid for providing smaller wattage output

[@matthewwilliams3148]

Thanks, very informative. Question to the expert: I'm looking to move my indoor main service panel feed and all circuits (off grid cabin - no 100A service, just about 30A from an inverter at potential peak loads that we never get to) through an exterior wall, basically the opposite of the wall, so not far. All my interior home runs are made with 12/2 romex that needs to be moved. In your opinion would a VERY short run (basically redirecting the existing Romex out of old main panel through 2x6 wall) through appropriately-sized conduit passing through the wall directly into an exterior-rated junction box or dist panel be considered damp or wet? If so the plan is to transition the romex to to 12 gauge THWN in conduit to extend circuits into the new exterior service panel for termination on 20A breakers. I initially wanted to do the junction box inside in place of the old service panel, but I lack the 30 inches of width (I have about 24") code requires for access to the panel (hence one reason I am moving the panel outside actually.) Course, it is West-By-God Virginia so no one is likely to inspect this unless I want them to, I just don't want to kill anyone or burn my cabin down. Thanks!

[@vjmacintyre]

My boss was an electrician and he told me it was okay to do this for a short piece just to protect some 10/3 from the sheathing/siding of my house to run it from a generator twist lock to a generator panel.. I'm having an issue with new LED fixtures that are going to replace my fluorescents.. T-bar ceiling, knockouts line up with the tbar so I'll have to use the knockouts on the ends of the fixtures, thus exposing the wire.. can i use pvc here?

[@abrelectric]

PVC from the end KO to a junction box above the ceiling? Or surface mounted conduit the whole way? If you're running thhn wires inside of conduit yes.

[@ScottDLR]

Thanks for this. I plan on running 6/3 nm-b romex through studs and then the last 2' in 1.25" conduit (from sheetrock to 48A ev charger) in my garage so it sounds like I'm good to go. I would appreciate any comments you have on this plan though.

[@abrelectric]

Sounds like you've got it!

[@ScottDLR]

@@abrelectric Thanks for the response!

[@mhunsucker6735]

I thought 6/3 nm-b ampacity is 55A thus 48A charger exceeds the 80% rule??

[@ScottDLR]

@@mhunsucker6735 I think it's rated 60 amps at 90C so that gets us to the 48A rating. I'll have to check it while it's charging my car and see how warm it gets.

[@howtodoitdude1662]

It’s a little confusing when you say you can’t run romex under a kitchen floor. But a bedroom underneath a kitchen floor has romex running through the ceiling for light fixtures. Please explain.

[@abrelectric]

You can't run romex underground. Once the conduit is underground, it's considered a wet location.

[@BenGates101]

I have a question. I have a finished attached garage in NJ. Ran plastic pipe from breaker box that is recessed in the sheet rock. Can I just pop a hole in the sheet rock and bring pipe up to breaker box inside the wall?

[@abrelectric]

Absolutely. Add an offset to get inside the wall, use the proper connector, and you're downtown.

[@BenGates101]

Thank you sir!

[@TravisandKatie1]

I’m trying install a 14-50 outlet. My electrical box is on the inside of the wall and I’m trying to put the outlet on the exterior side of that same wall. The outlet is outdoors (no garage). I know I need conduit to go through that wall and into the outlet box. My question is: Can I use 6/3 Romex and run it through conduit just to get through the wall and into the box? Or do I need 4 individual wires to go through conduit? Hopefully that makes sense. Thanks

[@abrelectric]

You can push the 6/3 romex through the conduit if that section is less than 24" in length. Make sure you have connectors at your panel and the back of your outdoor box. Good luck

[@thenexthobby]

If you're removing the sheathing for use in a conduit, what difference does it make if it's NM or generic "primary" wire? Once you strip out the wires, is there anything unique to NM vs UF vs something else of the same gauge and strand type?

[@abrelectric]

The difference is if you're being inspected. The sheathed conductors in Romex have no marking to prove their rating, especially in regards to moisture. Spooled conductors are marked THHN, or THW, etc.

[@thenexthobby]

​@@abrelectric Let's say there's an inspection. We want to be as conservative as possible and not get a red flag. Do we: use only UF cable, or strip all the sheathing off Romex if it's cheaper and now the inspector sees less protected wire, yet doesn't care because it's in conduit? What do you use in basements, and how does it meet code?

[@abrelectric]

@@thenexthobby I use UF or install THW or MTW wire in conduit. Conduit use will also be driven by whether or not the wire is protected in the walls, or surface-mounted, exposed to physical damage.

[@gabecortez7419]

Yes, because once you strip it and put it in conduit those wires don't have the same ratings as thhn, thwn ect.

[@thenexthobby]

Update: I bought Southwire's Tri-Wire. It's got the ratings. And its clear plastic coatings surrounding each wire has already come in handy when fishing it into 1/2" galvanized pipe, although I did add a little tape to some rougher areas. It's either that or rip out the cement basement wall, since there's a 90-degree elbow at one end --- all the conduit is embedded --- and pushing it down the pipe isn't fun. But it works at least as good as pulling it through with another wire. Miserable job, overall. With any luck I'll even be able to ground the metal boxes (also embedded in the wall.)

[@VideoPir]

Here I am thinking Romex was the only type of wire. I'm doing a basement run. Can I run Romex then remove the cover when I'm running it down the wall? Then I need couplings... Help! Seriously though, great video. Subscribed

[@dangrimes5078]

Very helpful. I am going to put Romex inside conduit in my garage. Now my only question is when is rigid conduit better than flexible conduit? I am using metal boxes flush mounted. I guess metal boxes are always flush or surface mounted.

[@abrelectric]

Dan, is this open stud construction or already drywalled? Rigid conduit offers better protection and looks IMO neater. If you've goymt a lot of bends and the conduit will be drywalled over at finish, use flexible.

[@dangrimes5078]

@@abrelectric It's another big shed or garage I just built. I lined the inside of the building with 3/8 plywood. I'm thinking that the conduit isn't going to require any bends at all. It's just going to drop down from the top of the wall straight into the outlet box. I'm pretty sure I'm going to use rigid conduit.

[@markhuru]

How come there is a thousand no Romax vids and google searches?

[@SeattlePioneer]

I have a surface mounted panel, and want to run romex from the panel to the ceiling, where it will not longer be exposed wiring. This will be 12/3 Romex From the video it sounds like I can use 3/4" flexible metal conduit to run that romenx up to the ceiling. 1) Is that correct? 2) How should I terminate the flexible metal conduit? The FMC is only used to protect the romex from damage ----does this mean that the FMC is a "sleeve"? And what the heck is a sleeve, anyway?

[@johnkassimatis6719]

Is a basement considered a wet or damp location?

[@abrelectric]

Is the basement finished or unfinished? An unfinished location would qualify for at least a damp location rating. A finished basement very likely for a dry location, mean that it is not typically damp or wet. Reference art 100, Definitions, Location

[@johnkassimatis6719]

I'll just thought I have a piece of Romax long enough to get through the conduit, but I also have black, white and green individual wires I can use.. Thanks all

[@kevinhaas6336]

What about trying to run power out to a deck. Where the main power source would be used from an outdoor spot light. I'm thinking of adding a plug for a electrical awning and a double plug for power. I'm looking at roughly 25' of conduit under a roof eave and onto and down the brick of my back wall. Can 12-2 romex in pvc conduit be used?

[@abrelectric]

Once it's outside, No. Don't forget your GFCI protection 😉

[@kevinhaas6336]

What kind of wiring would I need for outside above ground

[@abrelectric]

@kevinhaas6336 same thing: once it's outside, it needs to be damp/wet rated.

[@kevinhaas6336]

@@abrelectric thank you

[@bendanenhower1039]

Thank you for the video lots of info. Question: I have a room in my basement where my well is. It stays wet half the time they ran romex threw conduit to my well pump 50yrs ago now the conduit is rusting and falling apart i have plans on sealing the room to keep the moisture out i was gonna run pvc conduit so it would not rust but what kind of wire should i run.

[@tonyyagiello1130]

What if the sheathing is removed to make it individual wire?

[@abrelectric]

Same rules. Fill percentage is easier to achieve without the sheath. But the individual wires are not marked for outdoor or wet locations. Check it out sometime.

[@pld8993]

@@abrelectric Sheathing is not allowed to be removed when in conduit.

[@counseloridealist]

What is code for wiring soffit lights in eves? I see videos where Romex is “fished” along loosely. The fixtures may be damp rated and have metal boxes but not watertight ones. Question 2, wiring for an open covered walkway. NM conduit with THHN stranded or metallic conduit with stranded? Or Romex? No Romex I’m thinking. Metal conduit in the soffits and the underside of the covered walkway. The soffits are a heavy burden for metallic. Then there is Carlon blue Flex with stranded wires. Any suggestions? Well that’s more than two questions.

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

Most common violations are the kitchen island underground PVC conduit and the heat pump unit outside that they put romex in the flexible liquidtight conduit. Much easier to install THWN in that liquidtight then romex!!

[@alextirabasso2441]

a hopeful video for me, and thanks! I have a situation with a NMD90 6/3 AWG white wire from basement through to outside. Its one of those 50amp 240V wires used for a future hot-tub. The exit point is of the wire is 1 foot off the ground. Can I place the GFCI break box right over this exit point, or do I need to raise my break box a couple of more feet higher off the ground which would require a conduit. Which option do you think is better?

[@ssarraf6855]

Thanks for your video. How about running Romex through grey PVC outdoor, all joints connected by pvc cement and away from direct rain or moisture? Thank you for your reply in advance.

[@abrelectric]

Once the conduit is outside, the romex is a no-go.

[@hexagontaginal]

@@abrelectric My breaker box is outside of the house. An electrician ran Romex, through conduit from the breaker box, up the outside of my house and into the attic. Once in the attic the conduit ends and the romex runs to all of the smoke detectors. The conduit is large enough to meet that requirement - but is it against code because the conduit is outside? It sounds like it is against code but building inspectors have passed it - but they may not have been good at their jobs….

[@abrelectric]

@hexagontaginal I would let it be. If the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ) approved it, you're going to be ok.

[@AronPeters]

So, a 10-2 Romax in 3/4 Hydromaxx conduit mounted on the exterior wall above ground is a go I take it.

[@oldnick4707]

Hugely helpful sir. Subbed, and happy to have another source* for good info!! 😊

[@abrelectric]

Thank you! Appreciate your feedback and any questions!

[@justinb7558]

So a 1" PVC sch40 conduit would work for a single 10/3 with uninsulated ground NM-B cable that measures 1/2" in diameter when coming from a crawl space up into the framed wall space for a 240v 30amp recessed wall receptacle for a dryer?

[@abrelectric]

Absolutely! Thank you for caring about your work.

[@Amadeos103192]

Now does the Romex have to be stripped before putting it into the conduit or can the jacket be inside the conduit?

[@abrelectric]

The jacket can be left on, but you have to size the conduit correctly. Many times, it's easier to pull if you strip the jacket off first.

[@Amadeos103192]

@@abrelectric from what I was reading regarding leaving the jacket on u would only be allowed 1 12/2 in a 3/4 emt due to conduit fill. We have always stripped the jacket off to avoid this problem

[@wissamkourany8315]

Thank you for the video! Question: can I run a Samsung Connect cable (the cable that connects the Samsung frame TV to the Samsung Connect box) through an empty white 2-inch PVC pipe? The pipe was placed by the builder behind a drywall on an external wall of the living room on the second floor of my house (floor above finished basement). and the outside of the PVC pipe is surrounded by insulation. The pipe is empty with nothing else running in it. Would running the cable inside this 2-inch PVC pipe still meet code? The run in the PVC pipe will be about 4-foot long. Thanks

[@abrelectric]

Absolutely! Good luck with your TV

[@chrissmith3930]

So, if I have a garage with cinderblock walls, and I want to run romex through the joists and then down to receptacles, what size conduit would I need to run two 12/2 wires down to the receptacles? If it’s just for the protection of the wires, the fill factor doesn’t come into effect, correct?

[@abrelectric]

Fill factor is in effect unless it is less than 24" of conduit. Why not just transition to THHN conductors?

[@chrissmith3930]

@@abrelectric Honestly? Aesthetics. I don’t want to have junction boxes at the top of every piece of conduit where I transition over.

[@pld8993]

​@@chrissmith3930 If it's not a complete conduit system you're not limited to 24" length. Running down the wall with conduit to a box and leaving the top open so you slide the romex down into it in is an incomplete system therefore not subject to any fill limits at any length. If it fits it's legal, and two 12-2s will easily fit in 1/2" emt.

[@catsmeow5566]

What about 10/3 inside 3/4"? If the sheathing is a problem, can I take the sheathing off and tape the ends of the wires so they stay together to be pulled through? What about running the damp area rated/outdoor type wire through conduit? I have a pump house with cables running to pumps and switches and its a very damp area and I want to put the cables in conduit to protect them from getting damaged/scratched/chewed. I've some southwire in orange sheathing (which I think is for indoor) and some in gray. There's a mess of wires inside the pump house and I'm trying to fix it all up. Is it possible to remove the sheathing on the wires and twist them so they are all together?

[@abrelectric]

Don't twist them together. The romex (white/yellow/orange) is not rated for damp or we locations, with or without the sheath. The gray wire, UF, is rated for those locations if you aren't pulling individual wires (rated THW or MTW) through the electrical PVC conduit.

[@catsmeow5566]

@@abrelectric Thanks! I'll make sure to use the gray kind then. Man, the people who originally did it have just the orange wire in there without any protection and the exposed metal parts are corroded where they attach to the liquid level switch and to the pressure switch. It's a rural area so nothing was done to code out here. I'm trying to fix up the cluster of DIY mistakes from other people.

[@ss-pw4zj]

So in a wet damp location what do you run in conduit.

[@abrelectric]

Look at the insulation code on the wires: pull wires with the 'W': THW, MTW, etc. Or pull UF.

[@mrsant0s]

So if I'm running a outlet outside next to my panel. Can't I just strip the wires out of the romex and run it inside liquid tight conduit?

[@abrelectric]

You can. You can also wire it with an extension cord inside the liquid tight. The point is increase your skill in your craft, knowledge of the Code. Doing it right on purpose, not just what is convenient.

[@riverguy988]

I stripped the cover off my romex and ran it through the galvanized conduit to my living room fan. Is this against code or do I need a special wire for this? I will be getting it inspected.

[@abrelectric]

If it's indoors, and the conduit and boxes are assembled correctly and grounded, you should be fine. Ultimately up ti the inspector

[@jakemiller7760]

I was thinking about adding wafer lighting under my covered porch from existing outdoor wall light. I can’t run 12/2 Romex through liquid-tight conduit? It has to be stripped or UF?

[@abrelectric]

If it will be concealed in framing and covered, run that romex. If it's exposed, you can run UF (if it's not exposed to physical damage), or run conduit with individual THHN/THW conductors.

[@jakemiller7760]

@@abrelectric It’s just covered, not screened in around the 12x30 porch.

[@abrelectric]

@@jakemiller7760 there you go. UF or conduit.

[@FirstLast-et3sw]

So 10/3 NMD90 for a residential Landry room can or cannot pass through conduit 1 »

[@abrelectric]

Sure it can. But if the 10/3 passes through more than 24" of conduit, it's supposed to be derated. Or run #10 thhn in conduit if it's a longer run in the pipe.

[@nighttrain98]

So what do I put in an underground conduit??!!

[@abrelectric]

Individual conductors, labeled with a "W" like MTW, THHW. Usually what we call THHN has this rating. Or pull UF cable.

[@jmahtab]

Where are the cross sectional values for Romex listed in NEC 2020? Maybe I missed it but I’ve only seen individual conductors I.e. thhn etc.

[@abrelectric]

They're not there :) there are other non-NEC tables out there. Try the Google.

[@jmahtab]

@@abrelectric thanks for the reply. I get using Google but I don’t know how that would work when the AHJ determines a conduit is over filled. Romex in conduit always seems to be a grey area with inspectors and even some contractors. Don’t get me started on homeowners:)

[@abrelectric]

@@jmahtab I typically avoid running romex through conduit more than 24". Otherwise, transition from romex to THHN in a j-box

[@jmahtab]

@@abrelectric I’m assuming since 24” and below is exempt since it’s considered a nipple. Thanks from one vet to another and Merry Christmas.

[@jfromtn7410]

what is the proper way to deal with a live new romex wire installed for future use.i put a large wire nut over the end of the romex ad have 4 in the open ceiling.will be installing some lights*led* when tongue and groove ceiling installed using old work junction box.is this code compliant right now per nec? the romex is just cut atthe end with the wire nut.haveto get my electric inspection so not sure if this is ok.

[@abrelectric]

Typically, inspectors will want to see a romex safe-ended in a small j-box with cover. Versus just tape or wirenuts .

[@gerardotorres7904]

How about romex under a manufacture home? Has to be in conduit?

[@abrelectric]

Is it a damp location? By code or actuality? Then conduit or UF. If it's a double wide, and you cross the seam, how will they move the home later?

[@markpaquette9787]

TV over brick fireplace. Builder ran 2” PVC sleeve from basement to behind TV, cut flush with brick. Can I run Romex and HDMI/CAT6 cables all in this 2” PVC sleeve? Romex would exit PVC and enter shallow receptacle box. Also curious if I can run SJO cord in place of Romex in above scenario, and female cord cap behind TV, male cord cap in basement?

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

The 2 inch conduit is for your low voltage. If you run power and low volt together you'll get interference (static) on your TV

[@markpaquette9787]

Not true.@@JeffBanfield-t6v

[@ydna]

dang man, that's definitive!

[@DavPic-ve4lp]

How about SE cable, from a main panel to a sub panel, can that be in conduit?

[@abrelectric]

If it's being installed through framing, it does not need to be in conduit. The other context will be whether or not this is commercial or residential? Overall, yes you can, but you still have to have the cross-section of the SE cable not be more than 53% of the cross devtional area of the conduit you're putting it into.

[@Willis476]

You're wrong about the under the floor to an island. Article 300.5 specifically talks about (buried wire and the depth in the "ground" not floor.

[@chandler2927]

My thoughts exactly

[@paulchristopherriley7503]

should I run Romex to a cealing fan through a conduit?

[@abrelectric]

@paulchristopherriley7503 is this in a house with an attic or do you have to run the romex on the surface?

[@paulchristopherriley7503]

@@abrelectric the romex can run through the attic. thanks

[@hionis]

Can I run 10/3 in 3/4 conduit, or do I need to go to 1” conduit?

[@abrelectric]

You should be fine in 3/4" conduit. Happy hunting!

[@hionis]

Thanks!

[@jb60135]

I have metal tubing and boxes from the old fabric wires in the basement of my house. Can I run romex through it? The basement is not damp or wet location.

[@abrelectric]

In my opinion, you can replace the old fabric wires with romex. However, you can also just pull individual conductors and save yourself fighting the romex sheath. In either case, be sure to have grounding screws in your boxes to keep the metal bonded.

[@htownfire]

Gray Romex can’t go outside underground?

[@abrelectric]

Gray (UF) can, but must be buried 24" deep if not in conduit.

[@tonyapfel5235]

So running pvc around the basement wall and placing outlet boxes 4 foot off floor and running 12/3 through 1/2 inch pvc or should 3/4 be used

[@abrelectric]

1/2" will work. Happy basement hunting

[@tonyapfel5235]

@@abrelectric it would not be considered wet location?

[@tonyapfel5235]

Ok thank you very much

[@vboutique2188]

What type of conduit would you use? How does that conduit need to to be secured? Is a dirt basement considered a wet location or underground?

[@HomerKM1914]

Washer room is a wet location? I would think so.

[@pld8993]

Not unless it rains in there.

[@MrFordboy86]

Can I put 4-10/2 ufb in 1 1/2” conduit underground without it getting too hot while using all 3 receptacles I currently have that ran but haven’t wrapped it up yet I’m having a band come out for my birthday and don’t want any issue when they start jamming out the other outlet is for the dj all 4 outlets are on its own 20amp breaker im paranoid about it should I take it out and just direct bury it? Any suggestions greatly appreciated

[@abrelectric]

With information you've provided, you should be able to do your plan, assuming you don't draw more than 30 amps per run.

[@MrFordboy86]

@@abrelectric yes sir thank you I was just paranoid about the wires getting hot inside the conduit and melting lol

[@ileana0311]

Planning on running 8/3 Romex for a welder into my garage and running it thru the attic to the exterior electrical panel. Being that my home has blow in insulation in the attic, does all that Romex need to be in conduit?

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

Onle where exposed to physical damage (down the wall)

[@jifferwyght8871]

I am installing a Ford Connected Charge Station. It is 48 amps continuous duty so I upgraded to 4/3 copper for the 60 amp breaker. Reading more closely I noticed the manufacturer calls for conduit and I already purchased the nm-b romex. I can do a 2ft run from the panel to the charger although the turns will be hard to work with. My question is if I use the romex is it better to strip the sheathing and use the individual wires or go with a larger conduit? Just thinking about heat. Probably would be more sensible to go with THHN? It won't be inspected but I want it to be safe. The conduit will be indoors, dry, in a 10" bay between 2 walls.

[@pld8993]

Romex will not overheat simply by being in conduit and you are not allowed to remove the sheathing.

[@JamesVR6]

What about UF direct burial wire? Thats obviously allowed outside. Can that be used in a conduit?

[@pld8993]

yes

[@stbentoak5047]

I wired my manual transfer switch with 10/3 UF thru a garage block wall and I still put it in plastic electrical conduit with proper connectors to wire to the transfer box. Gives the UF some physical protection in the block wall and allows proper gluing and sealing for moisture "Just in case".....

[@pld8993]

@@stbentoak5047 There is no "just in case." All outdoor conduits eventually fill up with water due to condensation, not leaks.

[@tonyp6631]

When you say underground, do you mean also conduit running in the basement to the breaker box? Sorry, I didn't quite understand the specific context. Or did you mean the area in the island where a sink might be? Or did you mean like a crawl space? Plras elaborate. I like your channel and will subscribe

[@michaeljennings5170]

Are u talking under island in basement or crawl space uf?

[@abrelectric]

To a kitchen island under a concrete slab. That will be a damp location. Through a crawl space could be considered a dry location.

[@michaeljennings5170]

Can I put SE cable in conduit?

[@abrelectric]

@michaeljennings5170 yes, same rules as for Romex.

[@michaeljennings5170]

@@abrelectric code number?

[@abrelectric]

@@michaeljennings5170 Article 338

[@genekeranen2489]

I see NM cable used in basements all the time. Is this also considered a damp location? Does the rule only apply to NM cable (Romex) installed in conduit in a damp location.

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

Some locations like NYC, and Chicago require EMT conduit in the basement.

[@pld8993]

@@JeffBanfield-t6v Chicago requires EMT everywhere. Romex is essentially illegal.

[@justinfordyce6892]

You have a amazing talent, an appreciation of your time making this and i gained some new knowledge when out in the field, will be sharing to my fellow electricians!

[@abrelectric]

Thank you, appreciate your kind words.

[@jimsummers487]

334.80 limits heat to the 60degree column. Because of the internal trapped heat associated with 3 types of covering around each Rolex conductor. These cables can’t clear heat readily so spacing is required between each cable unless you want to get stupid with derating We don’t dearth in nipples though Don’t forget to buy a fire extinguisher for all of your fire code violations !

[@pld8993]

Incorrect. The lower rating is not about internal trapped heat (they aren't 3 types of coverings and they don't need to dissipate heat}. Romex is installed in walls and ceilings engulfed in fiberglass and foam insulation with exactly zero ability to "clear" heat. Romex in conduit does not overheat simply because it's in conduit, another trade myth that won't die because people who don't know any better keep repeating it as if it was true. Until the early 80s, romex had TW conductors rated for 60C. All romex now, and for the last 40+ years, contains 90C conductors but the rule has remained. Basically, it's being derated to minimize overheating risk. However, for sizes 14, 12 and 10 the overcurrent protection has always been lower than the max ampacity of the conductors anyway so for those sizes the 60C requirement is a moot point anyway.

[@bigomac5176]

Can I run a 6/3 aluminum ser from my sub panel in conduit underground to a shed 15 feet away?I was gonna run two 12/2 romex.not code I need two 15 amp circuits inside shed.

[@abrelectric]

Check your SER cable sheath: if it's rated for wet locations or has a W identifier in the labeling, yes.

[@pld8993]

The answer is no.

[@pld8993]

@@abrelectric Are you sure you're a master electrician? You need to read the NEC before you answer a question like that. The answer is NO, SE is not allowed underground, 338.12(A)(2)

[@abrelectric]

@pld8993 I appreciate that you can read as well. "Check the rating in the sheath" is based on there being SER cables rated for wet locations. Blindly quoting NEC is as bad as blindly installing inappropriate wiring methods.

[@pld8993]

​@@abrelectric Yeah, blindly quoting, give me a break. Of course it's rated for wet locations, it's installed outdoors every day. The sheath rating on SE cable is irrelevant, it's never allowed underground. Here's the exact "blind" quote, 338.12 Uses Not Permitted (A) Service Entrance Cable (2) Underground with or without a raceway. Any questions?

[@jesse7jesse7]

Ok. I wanted to run as much of my attic romex thru conduit bc the house was literally a "rodent farm" when I bought it, so out of fear of the "chewers" I researched this far and wide. PPL at the electric supply said don't worry about rodents, they wont bother your wires or had little knowledge on the subject. Rodents usually go for Fiberglass insulation first as nest material. BUT -- the deciding factor on conduit y or no may be not just the code but the "Heat". House is in South Georgia and the 2nd floor attic where the wires are gets up to probably 105 or more on a hot day. I would be concerned about wires getting too hot or perhaps issues with condensation due to heating and cooling inside of the conduit. Probably insanely paranoid about the sharp-toothed vermin ( their teeth never stop growing btw! ) after what I saw in this 100+ year old house.

[@pld8993]

MC cable is a better idea.

[@MattFerguson26]

3:35 the romex could be considered one (1) current carrying conductor?🤯 that is amazing if so, what code can I reference? Thank you!

[@DrewNorthup]

As a non-electrician I've run across this before-it was with respect to network cables, but the same rule applies...and for many very good reasons. The concerns are the following: (1) For anything carrying a meaningful amount of current relative its size cooling will always be a concern. Romex is already constructed with some "minimal" (actually much more than that) consideration for cooling in mind, but there's a great degree of disagreement as to the best way to test whether putting it into conduit compromises the original design considerations. Therefore NEC is intentionally crafted to make things as simple as is reasonable possible. Hence "one" conductor assembly (note the extra word there). One Romex is a conductor assembly, one THHN wire is a conductor assembly. (2) Those of us who've dealt with Telephone wiring (USC Title 47 Part 68) or computer networking cables (USC Title 47 Part 15) know that each individual bundle of wires is designed to be treated as a single entity when it comes to running them in conduit. This has nothing to do with NEC mind you, but it is nice that the two are compatible. 🙂 This is especially apparent when considering the minimum turn / coil radius of networking cables. Attempting to figure it out based on how many conductors are inside, what they are insulated with, if there is an internal nonconducting string or not, and what the outside is made out of is a major headache. Instead each cable is built to a specification (CAT 5, CAT 5e, CAT 6, etc) and each type of cable with that specification (indoor, outdoor, plenum, etc) has common parameters assigned. Again, the "KISS" principle in action...just like what NEC has in it. (3) Separate conductor assemblies will move relative each other, yet the motion inside of conductor assemblies is almost always negligible. Therefore, it can be said with reasonable certainty that there are concerns which apply more to the number of conductor assemblies than to the number of actual pieces of current-carrying strands involved. Additionally, friction inside of conductor assemblies is typically much smaller than between them. (4) NEC, for the sake of the sanity of the people reading it, just says "conductor" everywhere that they really mean "conductor, wire, or conductor assembly". I suspect they explain that more thoroughly in the definitions section, but probably in a way that doesn't really mean much to most people.

[@emilioescobedo3024]

Is a basement considered wet location?

[@abrelectric]

If it is normally dry, no. See article 100, "locations". The 2020 NEC in 210.8 requires receptacles in the basement to be GFCI protected

[@michaeladams9129]

I was not aware of the underground conduit being a damp location! Question for you master electrician James, can Romax be run in commercial application? There was a guy name Steve Sutton that said that it could once.

[@abrelectric]

The NEC seems to low it. He also said that the UBC would Not allow it :)

[@rickygordon8104]

In commercial, if stamped set of plans , ck the specs. The specks will tell you size & insulation type of permitted conductors allowed.

[@abrelectric]

@@rickygordon8104 Some municipalities will put the final approval on the field inspector and of course on the electrical contractor. Meaning sometimes the architect and the plan checkers will not create enough detail for a code compliant installation

[@sethshuman6027]

Far as fill....if i remove the cover, can i use individual wires from?

[@abrelectric]

Seth, give me some more details please. Remove what cover?

[@abrelectric]

Seth, if you mean removing the romex sheath, you can install the open conductors in conduit. You still need to use the 60 degree column for ampacity as these wires are not labeled THHN, etc

[@techups3082]

When running EMT or PVC from outdoor into inside a garage, do I need a 4 " piece of conduit inside the wall, or can the THHN wire be 'in air' as it goes from one side of the wall to the other side?

[@ruffxm]

THHN cannot be run loose. Also, THHN if running in a conduit outside needs to be THW

[@Mark-zh9ef]

Is there a derating factor or code for the romex being in the pipe?

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

Derating applies if you have 4 or more "hots" in a single conduit, or 4 or more NM cables bundled together for more than 24" Table 310.15(C)1) shows the percentages.

[@pld8993]

@@JeffBanfield-t6v Close. When there are 4 or more current carrying conductors, which includes neutrals, you must derate. Two pieces of 12-2 bundled or in conduit, for example, would be 4 current carrying conductors and derating would be required but because romex is already subject to the lowest temp ampacity column (60C), nothing changes until you've got 10 or more current carrying conductors.

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

@@pld8993 Neutrals are only counted as current carrying conductors if it's a 3 phase 208 wye connected system and sharing neutrals amongst 2-3 hots. A 12-2 WG romex with a hot, neutral and ground has one current carrying conductor, the hot wire.

[@pld8993]

@@JeffBanfield-t6v Incorrect. A neutral is a current carrying conductor in a 120V single phase individual circuit. In such a circuit, the neutral does not carry unbalanced current from other conductors; it carries the entire current load of the single ungrounded conductor. Every amp that goes through the hot also goes through the neutral. Since it is not carrying only the unbalanced current from other conductors of the same circuit, 310.15(B)(5) does not apply. That article only applies to circuits with multiple ungrounded (hot) conductors.

[@carlahayes8977]

I want to run thhn #6 /4 from main up to attic and over about 15 feet then out the soffit. Do I need conduit in attic and if so what kind should I use? It will be on top of insulation as well. Then down brick wall to hot tub sub breaker. What conduit should I use for that? I know to use liquid tight from sub to hot tub.

[@abrelectric]

Carla, through the attic or anywhere interior concealed, you don't need conduit. Once outside, you could use 1" rigid pvc, 1" EMT, or even liquid tite with diligent strapping. Remember you need a disconnecting means near the hot tub. See Article 680 for details

[@carlahayes8977]

So even if I don't use romex in attic I can run without conduit. I was thinking if it was thhn ypu needed conduit. Thanks for reply btw. Great videos and info.

[@carlahayes8977]

@@abrelectric sorry if I choose to use conduit is EMT ok to use as it will just be running across the beams and insulation.

[@abrelectric]

@@carlahayes8977 no worries. Make the EMT is bonded and supported, so the individual pieces aren't loose or binding on the Romex

[@jmac213stuff]

@3:58. "For 12-2 you have to put that into a 3/4" Conduit." It not correct. Looking at the Romex specification chart, 14-2 is .368x.162, and 12-2 is .418x.179. These are the two smallest Romex cables and basically, looking at the 53% Fill from table 4, Chapter 9, for 3/4 is .283 and for 1" is .458, so both 14-2 (.368) or 12-2(.418) in 3/4" doesn't meet code. For Romex to be in ENT, it needs to be 1" (.458) or larger.

[@pld8993]

You're not even close. First, conduit fill requirements only apply to COMPLETE conduit systems, box to box, for example. Otherwise, if it fits it's legal. Assuming a complete conduit system, let's look at your math, which is WAY off. A single 12-2 NM cable has a conduit fill area of .1256SqIn. The 53% area of 1/2" emt is .161SqIn. A single 12-2 easily fits in 1/2" EMT with room to spare. For 14-2, conduit fill area of the cable is .102. Again, plenty of room in 1/2" EMT with lots of room to spare.

[@azaan1632]

So can I run 12:2 with sheathing intact through a 1/2 inch non metal flexible conduit ?

[@JeffBanfield-t6v]

As long as you don't install it in a damp, or wet location, yes.

[@williamacosta2933]

Hi I was one of those old electriccian that believe that you can not use romex in conduit " thank you" I'm retire now for more than nine years, question can I reduce underground 2" PVC to 1 1/2" PVC ? where can I find that on the code ? thank you for your help

[@abrelectric]

William, as long as you're still meeting conductor fill requirements and using listed fittings for the step-down in conduit size, I don't know of an NEC specific guideline to your request. The biggest violation I see is using a plumbing pvc reducer that makes fishing wire fairly difficult.

[@williamacosta2933]

@@abrelectric Thank you for your time , is this (( Cantex 5142224 Schedule-40/80 Gray PVC Reducer Bushing 2-Inch x 1-1/2-Inch)) for Plumbing or Electric ? I see other fitting and LB from the same brand, what do you think? I only pulling 4 #2 THWN

[@justinjuarez1852]

If I have a wire run going from the panel under a house and then back outside. Can I have half romex under the house then strip the sheathing for the rest to run through pipe outside??

[@pld8993]

No, illegal to strip the sheathing and use the conductors in conduit without it.

[@justinjuarez1852]

@@pld8993 which code excatly states that

[@pld8993]

​@@justinjuarez1852 310.8 requires that conductors have manufacturer's info marked on them and the conductors in romex are typically blank so they can't be used as individual conductors. Also, 334.15(C).

[@isaacyoung-r7k]

12/2 needs to be in 3/4" conduit? what about 6/2? I thought that would fit in 3/4" conduit no problem?

[@pld8993]

12-2 does not exceed the 53% fill limit of 1/2" conduit.

[@sharinolan27]

Appreciate your opinion on running 12/3 through liquid tight 3/4" conduit underground to get an outlet to a outbuilding.

[@abrelectric]

You "can" do it, and it will work. It's just not Code compliant. Either UF or individual conductors THW or MTW on the jacket.

[@Phoenix20086fly]

Great info !

[@ezekielteklaking]

Appreciate the code references, spent a couple of hours reading up. Running Romex 14/3 through 3/4 PVC under a veranda is a no go? Because it's considered a damp location? Trying to figure out if this location is wet or damp. According to "300.9. Raceways in Wet Locations Above Grade" it could be considered wet. "312.2 Damp and Wet Locations" doesn't say exactly what damp or wet is. Do I need to strip the Romex?

[@abrelectric]

Look at "locations" in Article 100, Definitions. The issue with romex in damp or wet locations is that it's not rated for it. So, you use UF cable or pull individual THHN/MTW conductors