Why Romex Doesn't Belong in Conduit: Quality and Longevity

[@michaelkuzmin]

You spent 6 minutes and you still didn't not cover the question in the title, not at all. In your story your friend's issue was NOT the conduit, it was the damaged insulation and water. And if that was not Romex, you would have had the exact same issue.

[@abrelectric]

No, THHN/THW in conduit, stranded would have fared much better I think

[@michaelkuzmin]

@@abrelectric you did not present any evidence to support that hypothesis

[@abrelectric]

@@michaelkuzmin I don't need to. I'm sharing an opinion born out of experience.

[@johnwald1714]

Like most of my College professors.

[@pld8993]

@@michaelkuzmin This guy seems like he's an actual electrician but he has multiple videos with similar misleading titles implying that romex is not allowed in conduit. He's trying to generate $$$, not knowledge.

[@mrcryptozoic817]

Everybody always refers to moisture, staples, exposure to sun or exposure to chemicals (paints) as a hazard to Romex. But nobody thinks about mice, rats, squirrels and badgers. If those situations are probable, I would never NOT use conduit.

[@abrelectric]

People's dogs absolutely destroy landscape wiring. In Texas,squirrels definitely damage a lot of Romex in attics. Thank you

[@slatercohen7327]

I agree completely about squirrels especially in Central Florida. For whatever reason they don't like 'cloth' covered romex from the 1940's. They don't touch the original wiring in an old barn, but have reeked have havic on newer wiring which I've had to protect in both metal and plastic through the years. Even have to keep bait blocks under the hoods of my vehicles. Apparently toxic chemicals can't be used in wire insulation, probably because kids may chew on it. BUT I've heard fires are dangerous to kids too.🤬

[@parakart]

Love it when the algorithm pops up a channel I’ve never seen before. Very interesting and useful, instant sub!

[@jonwikan3986]

Yes, you can run NM in conduit and should when it's vulnerable to damage. Code recommends using conduit in this case 334.15 I believe. I have read about heat buildup. Are they crazy? NM(Romex) is usually ran inside bays with insulation often spray foam; talk about a chance for heat buildup, especially in an attic. So, while I wouldn't use conduit for a whole house for NM I would use it in a basement from joist bay to an outlet on a concrete wall that's exposed. Or where the wire might get trashed. In fact my home passed electrical inspection with NM in conduit in similar situations and here in Westchester NY code enforcement can be quite stringent. I hope this clears up the situation of contradictory codes.

[@jeffriley-lq5np]

using emt as a sleeve isnt a conduit anymore

[@pld8993]

@@jeffriley-lq5np It's still a conduit, but it's not a complete conduit system when used as a sleeve.

[@pld8993]

Code doesn't "recommend" romex in conduit in 334.15; REQUIRES it. In the NEC, the term "shall" means mandatory.

[@jeffriley-lq5np]

@@pld8993 a conuit used as a sleeve. been passing inspection before you kids were born

[@BrJon-uh8cm]

We used to sleeve it when we had a light in a beam on a vaulted ceiling.

[@haroldharris1621]

Thank You For the Power of Integrity In Working On Anything We Do. God Bless

[@williamgrissom9022]

My AC stopped working, in a packaged outdoor unit with gas heater. I pulled the cover and using schematic and multimeter poked thru the compressor wiring. I found the two wires from the 220 VAC contactor going to the compressor were hot, so why wouldn't the compressor run? Pulled that panel and found one of the factory terminals at the compressor had melted away. It had just spade slide-on connectors. Apparently, corrosion had increased the contact resistance to generate heat. Enough of a stub sticking out of the compressor that I was able to wrap and solder the wire to it. I cleaned the other terminal well and coated with silicone grease. In Atlanta and the HVAC was on the drier sunny side of the house. A good guess is the same failure happened all over the southeast since problem was with the factory design and execution. I recall I had wired the short distance from the disconnect box to HVAC input w/ NM cable inside liquid-tight flex conduit to protect it. Large overhangs on the 1-story roof so the HVAC didn't get much rain even though outside. I don't see a concern with that vs using individual wires inside the liquid-tight conduit. If an NEC violation, that sounds subjective.

[@ronaldkovacs7080]

Romex is not for wet. This was probably an issue years before the breaker started tripping, could have easily started a fire without tripping a breaker. So the answer is: Work must outlive the structure it is placed in.

[@abrelectric]

I like it.

[@CrispimSoares]

I really like that rule too. Simple and makes perfect sense. Moreover, as the new owner of a 22 year old home, I would be horrified if a bunch of electric work had to be redone by now. The structure of the home is in excellent shape, so like you said, I would expect the same from its electrical components.

[@davidtaylor4053]

My dad ran Romex overhead to garage. Was there for many years, might still be there.

[@ronaldkovacs7080]

@@davidtaylor4053 I would not be surprised. I have a feeling good quality stuff exceeds its rating.

[@davidisaacson9328]

NM UF-B Romex isn't "wet" rated?🤔😁

[@333mikeray]

As a Georgia electrical inspector and a GA Board Lic EN Master Electrician, I can attest to this issue being seen in every HVAC unit I have inspected. the joke begins with the fact that Gwinnett County inspectors who hold actual ICC or hold Board Lic is rare, who is going to work for $28 an hour, and hold legitimate credentials? Worst is one of the County Commissioners owns an HVAC company and when researching county open records we found he has never pulled a county permit to replace, install or changeout a HVAC system, hmmm maybe there is a secret permit portal ?? Next issue is the head of county planning and inspections is head of BOAG Building Official Association Georgia and is allowing new inspectors in county who can't pass ICC testing nor state boards to BUY a certification to fill the vacant low paying county positions for inspectors. This is the real problem with wiring and hack jobs in our county.

[@rustyshackleford9066]

Are you telling me corrupt elections aren't Georgia's only problem.

[@pld8993]

In certain counties in my state, take a short course and pass a test is all it takes to become an electrical inspector. No experience as an electrician is required. Because, like home inspectors, they tend to work from a checklist, anything outside that checklist is a foreign language to them. I've had to school multiple inspectors trying to fail me for various things that are perfectly legal. One inspector didn't know metal conduit can be an EGC and he failed me for no ground wires. I gave him the code reference and told him when he got back to the office he could look it up. His response, "I don't have a code book."

[@chris76-01]

​@@pld8993 that's one reason some people don't like to get permits😊

[@johnnyrmac]

As a retired Building Official from Florida this is very concerning, especially any item dealing with life safety.

[@TrendyStone]

I enjoyed your video but think the title is misleading since you can indeed put romex in conduit as long as you follow the rules, like dry environments (conduit in a garage assuming the size is appropriate).

[@abrelectric]

I agree - it is not a complete title, given the context that included the story of deterioration of the Romex insulation in an outdoor carlon AC whip. We have covered the rules you mentioned in two other videos.

[@GrabLifeByDaPoosy]

​@@abrelectric Would the area beneath a mobile home be considered a dry environment?

[@abrelectric]

@GrabLifeByDaPoosy in my opinion, no. I have seen lots of romex used there however.

[@stvcolwill]

I totally agree with this statement. As a DIY install of a DIY mini split Mr Cool 12k BTU. I bought the ROMEX today to connect inside conduit to get from the fuse breaker box to the disconnect. After researching a bit (surfing how to you tube, I know everyone's an expert now or something), I find that the code doesn't allow for Romex in conduit attached outside to the disconnect. So I thought I'd go ahead in side the garage down the wall a little to poke through (via inside conduit) to the disconnect. Anyways, your title led me to jump-scare that I 'shouldn't' do the romex even inside the garage before boring out to the disconnect... only to find out after watching the entire video, you're only talking about outside or within definited damp areas. The title is definitely misleading. now if you're saying that Romex doesn't belong in conduit inside as well for reasonable opinion arguments, then it should reflect that in the title. Anyways, this was my first video of yours and I am sub-ing because I do like your presentation style (just not the title).

[@abrelectric]

@stvcolwill The summary: no Romex in damp or wet locations. You got it. It seems this is a topic that keeps on giving. If you you've got a code book, Art.334.

[@KevinCoop1]

Ok, you are correct Romex is not approved for use in damp or wet locations. Couple more important points. Stripping off the outer jacket is a violation as well. Conductors approved for use in wireways has the required information stamped on the conductors. NM cables are stamped on the jacket, and not on the conductors. So, stripped jacket is a violation. Another violation was in your story. If short circuit, it is required to find the problem and repair before turning the breaker back on. And another probable violation. Manufacturers instructions are required to be followed. Circuit breakers are guaranteed to trip one time in short circuit condition. Manufacturer (if called) will ask how many amps went through the breaker during the short circuit, to which you will reply, “I have no idea”. The response will be, send it to us and we can inspect it.

[@WaguinhonaGringaUSA]

Ok, u can do putting 4-12/2 Romex in a 1” pvc pipe? ( for island) like 7” to wall from island!

[@monteclark1115]

Sadly when I got my first electrical job as a helper 29 years ago, we were working on a brand new apartment complex and we stubbed the Romex from the disconnects through the flashing where the refrigerant lines passed through the wall. We stripped it and just slid the seal tight right over it. Some of the wires were too short so my journeyman handed me a bunch of yellow butt splices and had me make splices inside the flex. Even though I was green, I knew this wasn’t right but I was just a helper and had no say. As a journeyman today, I will never do anything like that.

[@radman9219]

40 years ago I put a new service panel, mast/meter socket in and rewired my house - had it inspected and I ran Romex through metal conduits in my basement and garage. Passed inspection then - would it pass now? Ohio

[@abrelectric]

Possibly. Would your inspector consider the basement a Damp or Wet location?

[@brycestewart3181]

Would have been nice to say what is used to run in conduit...

[@howtodoitdude1662]

From what I understand, romex can run in conduit for short distances to avoid damage to the romex, (2 or 3 feet). Of course many factors would need to be considered, no set rule.

[@abrelectric]

24" for sleeving

[@pld8993]

@@abrelectric There is no length limit. If you wanted to run romex through 500' of conduit, it's not smart but it's legal.

[@SgtJoeSmith]

I added 2 semi outdoor outlets to side of shop. I say semi cause they have carport roof over them and 1 Also walls blocking the weater and tarp over door so practically inside. Had some outdoor/direct bury wire left over and ran that through few feet of conduit on outside of wall down to outlets just to keep wire from getting bumped or knicked. Used gfci and wr outlets in outdoor enclosures. Rain can't reach them but gets humid in summer. Looks nice and should last longer than rest the building

[@CrispimSoares]

Excellent video and excellent comments. Very educations. Thanks much.

[@garbo8962]

I started adding type NM cable for additional circuits in my house almost 50 years ago and inspect that and superior type NMB cable that came out in the early 1980's to last over a hundred years.When I purchased my all gas home it only had 5 circuit breakers. Filled up a 40 circuit panel and had to install a sub panel. I used to put up entire front of my house with Christmas lights so ran 3 dedicated 20 amp GFCI receptacles.

[@abrelectric]

Good work! Always good to have enough power without worries

[@paulawalach1770]

Hello, The problem i would trouble trace to (i don,t like to use the words troubleshooting) is why is there moisture/water getting into the carlon flex? When you run that from a cold location to a warm location, there will be drafts and condensation. Was the flexible raceway sealed with duct seal or any other approved sealing compound? The code intent of certain raceways is to keep liquids/gases/dust out of the raceway or enclosures . If that can,t practically be done, then wires run should have a "w" on it. And of course all raceways according to code in damp or wet locations shall be arrainged to drain. Unlike plumber's piping or their raceways is that it keeps the liquids/gases/dust inside their piping. Oposite of our electrical piping. It can be debatable about running romex or non -,metalic sheathed cable in conduit. First of all romex should be severly restricted . When i built my home from scratch, i completely wired it in EMT. IN MY OPINION ROMEX IS UNSAFE IN ANY HOME , AND I HAVE STUDIES THAT CAN PROVE IT. PERHAPS INSTEAD OF ROMEX THEN TYPE UF CABLE OR NMC SHOULD OF BEEN RUN IN THAT CARLON FLEX. MISS PAULA WALACH-FORMER INDUSTRIAL ELECTRICIAN-UNION MEMBER IBEW-LICENSED SINCE 1972 ----STILL WORKING WITH TOOLS FOR A RAIL MASS TRANSIT FACILITY . PS and yes , ive seen what happens in electrical splice boxes that are mounted a few inches below running rails, in which previous electricians stupidly splice wires using regular wire nuts that are not approved wet or damp locations. I,ve always insisted on using BUCHANAN ALL COPPER CRIMPED SPLICE CAPS WITH SNAP ON INSULATED CAPS. CAT #2006S & SNAP ON CAP 2007 INSULATED CAP. I,ve been using them for 51 years. They are excellent for vibrations and can be used in damp locations. Hence, when i tuck the spices into a box , i aways whenever possible stand the splices vertically so that splice cap would act as an umbrella in wet or damp locations. Rebular wire nuts corrode, even when a hack electrician wraps electrical tape around the wire nut that is listed for dry locations only.

[@abrelectric]

That is excellent information, thank you!

[@ericnortan9012]

Whats wrong with "troublshooting"? That is the part of the trade lingo. When I say "im going to troubleshoot this circuit people know what Im talking about. Not trying to give you the business, genuinly curious. 30 years in trade. Master Electrician JIW IBEW local 692

[@willpartin622]

I just found out about your channel and subscribed after watching a couple videos. Awesome work and thank you!

[@deej19142]

A couple of weeks ago I installed and wired in a 50/30/20 RV pedestal box for a friend of mine. since there will never be 2 RV'S at the same time, this was a great option for future RV guests. We used a 6-3wg UF wire, its flat and about an inch and a half wide. For the entire ditch it was laid right in the dirt, which is ok to do with UF wire. However to protect the wire at each end, I used 1-1/2 PVC conduit that was about 3 ft long with a 90 on each into the ditch to protect the exposed run above ground. Worked great. I have read somewhere that Romex type wire in a conduit can, if run to near capacity, build heat. In a normal situation Romex not in conduit can dissipate the heat, however if its in conduit, then that same potential heat can't escape as easily and can cause problems down the road. Thoughts?

[@abrelectric]

Sounds great. With direct burial we're supposed to have 24" depth, u less under concrete. UF is a great choice, and #6 is good for 50 amps in the 60 degree column table 310.16. Is there a GFCI requirement for the 50 amp outdoor outlets? Thank you!

[@deej19142]

GFI was not required unless it was to a piece of equipment or for instance a hot tub@@abrelectric RV pedestals are actually classified as "Temporary" even though 90% of these are installed and left in place for decades. The RV boxes are suitable for wet locations as long as the door is closed and there are no screws missing.

[@abrelectric]

@@deej19142 awesome! Thank you

[@ericnortan9012]

Sounds like you did it correctly, i like to put a 90 on the trench end of the pipe for a smoother transition and you should always bush the end where the wire enters/exits the pipe in the trench.

[@Thrunabulax10]

so......what IS the correct cable to run inside the flexible conduit?

[@abrelectric]

In outdoor damp/wet locations, either UF cable or individual THW, MTW conductors.

[@ericnortan9012]

Any cabe or wire rated for the application. THWN is probably the best/ most common wire. UF cable is common too, and generally pretty cheap (relatively speaking)

[@jesse7jesse7]

50 years. I want it to outlast me - safe & happy owners/renters after I'm dead.

[@benkanobe7500]

When I can not use Service Romex to go up from my main panel to the attic of my garage, over to the location of my proposed sub panel in that garage and then down to the sub panel, what wire do I use to go horizontally through the 2X4 studs from my main panel to my 125 amp sub panel? I know the Service Romex sheath is to large in diameter to go through the studs (without severely compromising strength and violating Code). Thank you.

[@rb-ex]

i have a question after watching your video: why doesnt romex belong in conduit?

[@abrelectric]

Concern is overheating, and many of the conduit installations questioned are in damp/wet environments. Romex isn't rated for damp/wet environments.

[@rb-ex]

@@abrelectric the question is why NM cable doesnt belong in conduit, not: why cant you run cable not rated for damp areas through damp areas inside of conduit that is also not damp-rated. if there's a reason not to run NM through a damp-rated conduit, it wouldnt be because NM isnt rated for damp areas, because damp-rated conduit would be protecting the NM from dampness as far as overheating, is this an actual thing or just a problem someone dreamed up without any evidence? steel conduit is a poor thermal insulator. it conducts heat and radiates it out pretty readily. some types of conduit like PVC may be better thermal insulators, but if this is a scary problem for NM, why isnt it also a problem for regular insulated conductors? if undamaged wires are overheating there is only one reason for it: they are too small for the load. my radical solution to that would be to use bigger wires instead of going neurotic about how heat is going to escape any conduit you run it through i see no safety reasons not to run NM cable through damp areas inside of damp-rated conduit, or through any areas at any length inside any type of conduit

[@abrelectric]

@rb-ex read the code book, article 334 and 90.4. It isn't an issue of opinions if you want to do it correctly.

[@pld8993]

@@rb-ex The issue of romex overheating in conduit is a myth. It does not overheat because it's in conduit. That's false.

[@ShermanT.Potter]

As a farmer who does his own electrical, I think wiring should last almost forever if properly done, unless the structure its attached to becomes compromised. Unless its the old wire from like 1950 with insulation that cracks as soon as you move it. I assume that's due to materials of the time and/or age, not the result of poor workmanship. I'm almost positive one of my corn cribs still has a light powered by knob and tube wiring, still works. :)

[@gradyrm237]

How long should a hacks work last? Easy. Once the inspection is signed off.

[@abrelectric]

Tail light warranty:)

[@TomCee53]

Off topic, but I appreciate that a pro is using Ryobi power tools.

[@abrelectric]

Thanks. It's stuff I use at home.

[@klassica]

Like me, his wife probe bought him the 5-set as a present. 😂

[@klassica]

They're ok, but little things like not having the light stay on after trigger release are annoying.

[@tommeyer3770]

Tool snob alert!!

[@ericnortan9012]

​@@klassicaright, i thought mine was screwed up. No, just weird Riobi engineering.

[@Cristobal-wd2gf]

Ok from what I recall to the max of 6 feet. Has that changed?

[@abrelectric]

@Cristobal-wd2gf I don't understand - can you give me more details - 6ft of what, where? Inside or outside?

[@kendocashwell4537]

My response to your question of "how long"? My time line would be "two generations". What I do for the father, when he is my younger self, should last through out his life "and" his son's. This way any change to the environment code, will be addressed at that time and by who ever now needs to improve it after a lifetime of reliable and trustable use.

[@charlesrichards1240]

Will it hurt to run romex in conduit indoors? I am rewiring my barn,and I am running the romex inside standard steel conduit(along the wall,not inside the wall,where the studs are,because it is too difficult to remove the walls) in the room where I have my animals,from the breaker box for safety,and to make sure it's grounded.But it goes up to the ceiling in the adjoining room,so I was running the wall switch/outlet box wires in conduit up to the suspended ceiling-then above it,just running the romex open-air(without conduit) into the adjoining room along the ceiling joists to the ceiling lights/outlets which is out of reach of my animals.These are clean and dry finished rooms with walls,no moisture,that are heated and cooled(I spoil my animals).Would this be OK? Or should I strip the sheath off the wires going into the conduit?

[@abrelectric]

Indoors is not a problem. You should still observe conduit fill.

[@pld8993]

@@abrelectric There is no conduit fill in this scenario. If it fits it's legal.

[@ericnortan9012]

​@@pld8993huh? Conduit fill is aways a factor.

[@pld8993]

Conduit fill rules apply to complete conduit systems only, box to box, for example. In this case he’s simply stubbing the end above the ceiling and the romex emerges directly out of the conduit end. Incomplete system, fill rules do not apply, if it fits physically it’s legal.

[@ericnortan9012]

@@pld8993 agree with you they don't apply to stub ups, I got the impression he is running recepticals and switches in conduit on walls, then stubbing up to attic.

[@eugenewillis4720]

Can you run a bare ground from a 200 Amp box to a 100 Amp breaker box the wire will be run in a gray pvc conduit

[@abrelectric]

#8 or larger in a raceway should be stranded. Article 310.3

[@garbo8962]

Type NMB ( romex ) is never allowed in a damp or wet area. All outdoor areas are considered damp locations. We can only install say a 6' piece of NMB cable down a cement wall to protect the cable. The insulation on NMB cable never has labeling ( printing ) to identify the insulation type or guage of wire. And yes a second week appratince should be able to figure out if a solid wire is,14, 12, or 10 guage.

[@rswind1964]

have scraps of different wire or conduit so us newbies can learn the terms. Thanks

[@markjohnson9402]

Moral of this story. Don't run your electrical inside your plumbing, ; )

[@leestokes6761]

In some states, any electrical work much beyond changing a light bulb or replacing a light fixture must be legally be performed by a licensed electrician. I think The Peoples Republics of Massachusetts and New York fall into this category. In others, like my state of Utah, I can do about anything I want though my DIY work must be able to pass inspection EVEN if trivial enough that inspection isn’t required by law. And of course, anything requiring inspection must meet code. As someone with perfectionist tendencies, I want my work to last. I hate redoing something because I was in an hurry or didn’t have the right tools or parts. And I don’t want to leave something for a future homeowner to curse me for because I didn’t do it properly.

[@roberte.6892]

New York definitely does NOT require this, at least not as a state-wide code rule.

[@Mentaculus42]

In California the electrical work must be inspected but a home owner can do the work. I am not sure if changing a fixture needs a permit but …

[@davidcarp5935]

oof, I'm in MA and did all my own outlets, light fixtures, ceiling fan and added GFCI outside, behind the porch light, didn't bother with WR, as I had regular GFCI on hand, oh well, it's protected from any direct moisture, but not humidity per se. Its a GFCI for crying out loud, point is protection, what's a little water or moisture gonna do besides maybe shorten the life. Plus I only use it for LED holiday lights.

[@hugged-by-a-card]

I have a question centerpoint energy my utility company is saying that the reason half of my house has no power it's because one of the legs is out and the problem is The Wire underground. The power on half the house has been out for 3 days all of the sudden today the power cut on and off in the section that was out. If the underground wire is damaged can live electricity run through it.

[@abrelectric]

No, or intermittently if it's not completely broken.

[@Bigmandoloco]

GREAT QUESTION!!!

[@wadesmith9165]

I want have a 110 receptacle at my gate opener I want to bury line & in case it for protection Can i use pvc conduit using underground wire 12/2

[@abrelectric]

Using underground wire, absolutely.

[@jeffriley-lq5np]

just get some thwn conductor. its water resistant and is why you ran the pvc conduit

[@cesarsoberanes5235]

No matter how many licenses endorsements we get if we don’t work honestly

[@JDJD-xf4dg]

Agreed with other reviews … please get to your point !

[@johnmartin3517]

The problem was the nick in the insulation and the water.

[@willpartin622]

Thank you again for the videos! I'm replacing a 100-amp Stab lock panel with a 200-amp Square D Home Line. I pulled a homeowners permit but have a question. If I use 2-inch PCV nipple between the meter pan and the load center (using 2/0 copper) pan and panel are back-to-back. Do I need to run a ground through the nipple? does not seem Like I should, but not sure. Thanks

[@abrelectric]

Of you don't have an outside main disconnect, and are going directly from the meter to the load center, you don't need a ground through that PVC nipple.

[@theinquisitor3930]

I've seen so much conflicting info. I just want to run Romex in my garage. I don't want it in my walls because I might want to rearrange outlets later, who knows right? So I want it on outside of the interior walls, but I'd rather not have Romex just all spaghetti on the wall where it would look sloppy and could be damaged. What other option is there than using conduit? Is the whole Romex/Conduit debate because of code or just a bunch of what if scenarios?

[@pld8993]

The so-called debate is only a debate amongst those can't or don't read. The NEC explicitly allows and sometimes requires romex in conduit.

[@ed6837]

if i am not mistaken modern romex the conductors are rated as thhn which is not approved in a wet location

[@dougb3699]

Can I run romex in carlon on the inside, lets say in my garage?

[@abrelectric]

Yes.

[@warrend114]

If you made a mistake like cutting into jacketing 10 years if the breaker fails and its out of manufacturer warranty then its not my job to warranty it. (examples)

[@tommywatterson5276]

Romex is fine outside or inside of conduit inside in dry conditions. For small jobs you'd do for yourself at home, and not having to go to the expense of reels of wire used for running inside of conduit. Commercial jobs, yes, you would NOT use Romex in conduit.

[@pld8993]

On most commercial jobs romex is not allowed, whether in conduit or not.

[@edcollier2526]

Hi, loved your video! What would you recommend for raceway in: a high tunnel (hoop house) that I would consider damp/wet location. I need multiple receptacles for my led lights to plug into, 3 way switches x2, other receptacles for blower, fans, water recirc pump. In a nutshell, what would you recommend to be the most watertight? Since I cannot use romex in it, is THHN about my only option for wiring? All circuits are to be 20 amp. Thanks a bunch!

[@brotheradam]

24 years ago you were taught that you could put Romex in conduit except in wet or damp locations as the interior of the conduit is wet or damp.. Thus it was illegal then but I guess he stripped the Romex hoping that no one would catch the fact he needed outdoor single wires in the conduit..lol..and for 24 years the electrician was not caught..

[@abrelectric]

Yep.

[@SourDonut99]

You can get TECK cables now. Armored and weather coated for wet and damp applications. Typically for AC and outdoor EV chargers. You can save some conduit.

[@everettchris1]

I'd expect that residential, 120/240 volt wiring and wiring devices should have a lifespan of 50 years. For low voltage, 25 years. Leaving a stripped wire in a conduit like that is clearly not okay, for several reasons.

[@lawrencepate8543]

Great advice!!! Thanks!

[@allanstewart758]

It has to do with the products listing. Romex is not listed for use inside conduit. The wire and the NM sheath are listed together. If you look at the wire, it doesn't have a UL listing on it. The listing is on the sheath. At least, that was the way it was 12 years ago when I retired from Building and Safety as a senior electrical inspector.

[@abrelectric]

@allanstewart758 still the same today

[@pld8993]

NM is listed for use in exposed and concealed locations in dry locations, which would include inside conduit. The NEC allows romex in conduit, and also requires romex in conduit in certain applications.

[@allanstewart758]

@pld8993 concealed locations as in walls and such, not conduit. It can be run in short sleeves, like penetrating fire walls, and the ends must be sealed with a listed fire sealant.Like I said it in the listing, not the NEC

[@pld8993]

@@allanstewart758 Incorrect, you need to read the NEC for clarification. Nowhere is romex in conduit limited to short sleeves, there is no length limit, and nowhere is it forbidden in conduit in dry locations. Romex in conduit is allowed anywhere romex is allowed, and sometimes explicitly required in conduit, 334.10(E) and 334.15. If you wanted to run romex in 500' of conduit, while not smart, totally legal. If I'm wrong, feel free to share the NEC reference that says otherwise.

[@allanstewart758]

@pld8993 It's not in the NEC it's in the UL listing. The listing supercedes the NEC

[@brianharmeson3144]

Romex in conduit is fine as long as you follow the rules. Conduit installed outside is considered a wet location. It is a code violation for romex to be installed outside. It doesn't matter if it is in conduit or not. Plain and simple.

[@allanstewart758]

I'm an old-school electrician. No Romex ever. Run steel conduit pull wire #12 minimum .

[@TheEulerID]

I have no idea why this is so controversial in the USA. The equivalent of Romex (technically called thermoplastic-sheathed cable in many countries, using PVC insulation, with a toughened outer layer) is frequently used in plastic conduit, and I don't hear of it causing any issues. Of course you don't want to put too high a load down the same conduit, but compared to some things that are done (read directly embedded in plaster) it's really not an issue. I should add that it's only used in certain situations. For example, under suspended floors and in stud walling it it not usually in conduits. However, it's become increasingly common for such cabled to be buried in insulation material for both acoustic and thermal insulation reasons, and I would have thought that worse than conduit.

[@abrelectric]

My opinion is that Code is trying to protect against installers who don't know what they're doing: undersized wire, frequently in white plumbing pipe, not correctly sealed against moisture, with grounds cut off, because they don't know what to do with them.

[@jaydee3046]

My house has a sunroom, and prior owner had run underground 220 for a small air conditioner. We did not use that AC, and later our HVAC had to be replaced. The fuses kept blowing from day one. A/C company finally repaced the condenser fan motor and problems stopped. Years later, we got solar and it was discoverd the HVAC circuit breaker had 2 sets of wires running from it, one set for the HVAC and another one for the sunroom AC. So the sunroom AC was decomissioned. I think the AC company got messed over and it was just an intermittent short from the sunroom run. I did run a camera in the sunroom line, and it had water in it.

[@abrelectric]

It's nearly impossible for underground conduit to stay dry, if nothing else, just because of condensation.

[@lindafrank5580]

Government code and big electric companies change code to increase their profits!!!

[@sman5877]

looks like the wire was overloaded. maybe a 12-2 that was used as a 30 amp service.

[@aaavellone]

I've never been a fan of NM cable of any kind. Rewiring and servicing are a giant pain. The possible nail or screw through the sheathing is a constant risk. Imo, you should always put NM in conduit.

[@abrelectric]

Why not, then, just pull THHN?

[@aaavellone]

@@abrelectric rewiring means knocking out and replacing giant chuncks of wall/ceiling/floors and taking out all those staples. During service work you often need to jiggle wires to hear/see how boxes are connected and you cannot do that with NM. The sheathing does not offer any protection at all to someone putting a screw or nail through it. Just to name a few.

[@billjones6131]

North Carolina will allow up to 6 foot for a condenser whip for romex in a conduit!

[@crazysquirrel9425]

Your work should last a lifetime or longer. If you did it to last 20 years then there was a fire or other problem and someone got hurt or died, could you sleep at night? Always make it safer than the minimum if you can.

[@anthonyesparsen7776]

The code just says romex ,is not allowed in wet areas

[@abrelectric]

Article 334

[@ericnortan9012]

That answers everthing question in the video, yet not the title.

[@leefra1]

I want my work not to fail because of my workmanship .

[@vince6829]

Thanks for sharing

[@ericthat]

I'd never run Romex in EMT or Liquid Tight. I always runTHHN. Thanks

[@abrelectric]

Thank you

[@ericnortan9012]

What about furnace drops, basment wall receipts, etc.? Do you run complete conduit runs, or J-boxes at every drop point. Doesn't seem cost affective and your adding an unnecessary splice on the circuit. Not saying its a bad way to do it, maybe a little overkill.

[@ericthat]

@@ericnortan9012 BX is what's used for furnace and outlets.

[@pld8993]

@@ericthat You're obviously not an electrician.

[@ericthat]

@@pld8993 wrong. Look at your code book.

[@Wheel_Horse]

NM-B in conduit is fine... in a DRY LOCATION ONLY ... as long as you don't exceed conduit fill rules. Outdoors, NEVER.

[@ericnortan9012]

NM cant be run in damp/wet locations. Conduit is irrelevant. Inside its fine, even required in certain situations.

[@Mike-01234]

Every HVAC unit I ever seen has NM inside a whip lot of it is Aluminum wire.

[@abrelectric]

Ewww

[@rael5469]

Electrical wiring in a house should last virtually forever because unlike a vehicle the house is static and there is VERY little to no vibration. So the wiring should last forever. I see the problem with the example job being the water leak.

[@pld8993]

Electrical wiring does not last forever and has an expected lifespan of 50 years. No vibration or movement is true, but all electrical circuits generate heat which, over time, ages the insulation.

[@rael5469]

@@pld8993 The house I grew up in is now 67 years old. Will it start to see electrical problems? .....like a fire ? Oh.....and for the record we put the equivalent of Romex in metal conduits on aircraft. ....around the landing gear where it is a very harsh environment.

[@pld8993]

@@rael5469 Fire not likely, especially if the wiring is left alone and not touched. The breakers, however, could be aged. A new breaker will trip instantly with a shoirt. An old breaker might "hang" for a second or two.

[@rael5469]

@@pld8993 "The breakers, however, could be aged." The fuses, you mean. ;)

[@pld8993]

@@rael5469 You house caught the tail end of the fusebox era. I'd trust 167 year old fuses before I'd trust 67 year old breakers.

[@robertdunaway-tyll7635]

Seen ac’s 30 years old with romex ran through greenfield let alone actual seal-tight and it be perfectly fine. But okay

[@abrelectric]

It's not a problem...until it's a problem:)

[@howtodoitdude1662]

@@abrelectricGreat answer!

[@brianharmeson3144]

It's still a code violation.

[@user-bj4lp3fr1o]

Does your service area include Arlington?

[@dallas5374]

Code trumps opinion 👍

[@windward2818]

If we assume the branch circuit is in a dry location, then the primary reason not to use Romex in conduit is ampacity. But we also have the problem of usage and how Romex is rated (tested). The secondary sheath on Romex limits ampacity, but as important Romex should not be confined, meaning bundled with other current carrying conductors (For example, grouping several Romex cables in a round bundle). Conduit is also a method of confinement. So, it makes sense to me that Romex in conduit should be de-rated.

[@josemarroquin5955]

Correct me if I'm wrong but romex wire its equally insulated as the wire that comes in rolls, the only difference is that romex is cover with a another layer of insulation but if you remove it it will be the exact wire,

[@abrelectric]

Not by the markings on the wire. Southwire, for example, days the individual conductors are rated for 90 degrees C, but no rating for damp locations etc.

[@jeffriley-lq5np]

ive seen old romex with type t ( thermoplastic insulation an tw ive never seen a cable with thhn or twhn though. the paper filler stsys wet too

[@staberdearth3130]

I like succinct and to the point, not yammering. Few KZbinrs know how to do this. QUALITY and ON TASK, NOT QUANTITY WITH CLUTTERING AND ASIDE STORIES.

[@abrelectric]

@staberdearth3130 looks like your caps key got stuck. Please feel free to visit the many other quality YT channels.

[@staberdearth3130]

@@abrelectric No, it did not get stuck. I watch a lot of home improvement and related videos. Some get right to the point, some folks just like to hear themselves yammer. Quality and on point, not quantity and meandering.

[@abrelectric]

@@staberdearth3130 ok

[@steveurbach3093]

In conduit is too general. I got called on Romex in a stub (box upward to 8')of exposed work EMT to a switch. Heat buildup? Metal dissipates heat. If conductor heat was a problem, the Romex sheath ain't helping even in free air. I do agree that Romex in other conduit materials need their own set of rules

[@SgtJoeSmith]

My electrical work better last longer than rest the building

[@anthonyesparsen7776]

All cables must be labeled

[@HelloKittyFanMan]

Well, obviously you'd want the work to last indefinitely in all cases; that goes without saying... unless you're thinking of planned obsolescence because you're worried about job security.

[@Carlg6]

Too much side talk...annoying

[@drewc3651]

Work should last til the equipment fails

[@abrelectric]

I like that. A long-time approach

[@bradmesserle999]

The video was word salad.. :) it should be re-titled to include wet location.. how about a video when it is appropriate to run romex in conduit.. :)

[@HDRW]

Spot the American perspective: "The house was built 25 years ago, and that's a really long time" ROFLMAO! 🤣 I'm in England, and the house I'm living in was built in 1937. The previous house I lived in was built in *18*37 (the year Victoria came to the throne). Under the wallpaper you could see the route that pipes to gaslights used to run, and under the floor you could find wires and bellcranks for the bell-pull system used to call the servants... What you call Romex is similar to what we call twin-and-earth, except there's no paper surrounding the conductors. It's what you would always run in conduit here, and "singles" would never be allowed because that would only be one layer of insulation between the conductor and the (metal) conduit, and that's a no-no. Mind you, metal conduit isn't often used these days - wires would usually be buried in the wall, inside oval plastic conduit, or if running on the surface, in plastic round conduit, or "mini trunking". Interesting to see how the other half lives!

[@abrelectric]

Thank you! I love the perspectives of electrical in other countries!

[@mbburry4759]

Arent all the conductors thhn anyway? Personally im skeptical of the product in general - it gets stapled so tight often it cuts through the outer jacket (sometimes into conductors), at the same time if its not stapled relatively tight it's not up to code either...but.... theres plenty of it like 50 years old thats still perfectly fine, even though it does kind of seem like running extension cords everywhere... mc armored is not that much more expensive... Anyway romex is accepted as completely fine, and has proven it lasts a long time - why would it being in conduit matter? Id think itd would have more ability too cool down inside a conduit pipe than buried in insulation.... Edit - missed the wet part. I understand the code. Still think using mc would be better in homes, so many quick connectors available to attach to jb, seems so much safer😊

[@bobmcgehee1749]

Unless you have a rat problem, but then there's always BX.

[@abrelectric]

@bobmcgehee1749 true.

[@D71102]

Ok great, but what does code say? You didn’t answer your own question.

[@abrelectric]

@D71102 I list 3 Code articles in the video. In earlier videos on the same topic, I have additional Code references. The story was a great representation of consequences of not using materials for the purposes for which they are listed.

[@brandonharris305]

Might not belong...but is code compliant

[@LarryB-inFL]

VERY disappointing video, since the title was basically clickbait, and you never actually expand on the title statement

[@kennygibson8538]

The degradation should come from the materials , not the workmanship ?

[@abrelectric]

@kennygibson8538 yes. The workmanship we can control. Choice of materials will control the rest of the longevity, IMO

[@anthonyesparsen7776]

You can't use comes outside its a wet area

[@superdog1964]

Wow, just WOW! As someone who will tackle simple tasks like replacing a worn out switch or outlet, I hesitate to go above that level of wiring for obvious reasons. From a DIY's standpoint I am certain that there is NO difference between the NEC and the bible. In both cases there is one book, many sects and 500 interpretations of what it means. How long until various factions band together, create their flags and meet on the battle field? The only uncertainty is the location of holy sites where battles can take place and/or miracles happen? Tesla's grave site? Wardencliff NJ perhaps? We all know that Edison was a false prophet by stealing inventions and killing elephants. Westinghouse followed Tesla so....... My guess is that sometime in the future an apprentice will have a revelation and wake up one morning after Tesla spoke to him or her in a dream with a complete understanding of the entire NEC? When this person attempts to spread the one and only correct way of completing every task though, a group of non-agreer's will crucify them on an electric pole with a MET-ED transformer? The true believers will carry on though, and hopefully have spread enough gospel to one day make the service panel a better place to work? Where or who is this messiah? The world needs them now!

[@pld8993]

The NEC is mostly very clearly written with no need for interpretation, though there are some exceptions. Most "interpretations" are nothing more than someone who either hasn't read it or has poor reading comprehension skills.

[@MrGaborseres]

25 years isn't a long time lol 😂......if you do work that endures for ever..... You just put your grand kids out of a job 😜 Good video 👍

[@troyd.521]

Can THWN be in metal underground conduit?

[@abrelectric]

If you're talking individual THWN conductors, absolutely

[@jeffriley-lq5np]

yep

[@troyd.521]

@MoparGuy1625I got mine at Lowes

[@boeing757pilot]

​@MoparGuy1625Everywhere. It's rated THHN/THWN usually..

[@anthonyesparsen7776]

Workmanship is not clearly defined very vague

[@abrelectric]

Article 110

[@pierrebelarge892]

The title to your video is a poor way to get to how long should one's work last. 1. NM Cable is permitted installed in most raceways, not just EMT. 2. For instance, EMT. 300.18(A) exception, 334.15 (B), 358.22- 2nd paragraph, Chap 9 notes to tables. 3. NM cable is not permitted outside the building, nor in underground installation. 4. Your example could have been any wiring method - the work I could see was disgusting. NM Cable has been successfully installed in EMT millions of times across this country for decades. 5. Manufacturers for all kinds of electrical items have specification and installation instructions on their websites. Free to download. UL website has a ton of free information - such as the White Book- ll22+ pages of information. NEMA also has a long list of free information. 6. Start referencing those documents and good NEC Section numbers and your list of subscribers will grow...

[@anonymous.369]

Wasted of time, wrong question. No romex in conduits under risk of wet condition. Use thnn/thwn wire only. It is not a question of how long the work should last.

[@markhuru]

Ok ... I watch way too much you tube? Last year the guy was bald, now he’s got hair? And he said romax ok in conduit, now no romax? 😢 when under no circumstances everyone else is no romax?

[@davew1817]

Wow. Didn’t answer your own question. Change the title to storytelling

[@jasontraxler2946]

Heat