Abuser Targets and Friend Breakups

[@charitydixon7828]

On the morning of the day I went into labor, my very best friend of nearly ten years sent me a text saying I talk about my baby too much, that she doesn't benefit from our friendship anymore, that she wants to walk away from our friendship, and to not respond to the message. I was 42 weeks pregnant. I respected her wishes and didn't respond, and I think about her every day and how our friendship surely could have been saved by a simple, in person conversation, but it was extremely hurtful and out of the blue, I figure I'm better off without her.

[@angiem1704]

Sorry to hear that....friendship breakups are painful but is there more to the story? Was she maybe having trouble getting pregnant or having fertility treatments?

[@Aerojuanas]

That's awful :( I'm sorry you went through that.

[@lulukallinen3057]

Oh gosh. But honestly be glad that she isn’t in your life anymore. She didn’t even tried to talk to you in person she just dumped on you and left without giving you the chance to even ask questions. This is toxic honestly. I hope you and your family are fine 😇

[@gulliblesbabbles]

@@charitydixon7828 : Good healthy perspective.

[@SmellMyKnee15]

Maybe she decided not to have babies or was deeply sad because she couldn’t have them? That’s the only thing that makes sense. I think maybe she just couldn’t see you with your baby. Or she couldn’t look at you, it could be too much for her. Or she just didn’t love you as much as you thought she did and everything i just said was not the case at all. Sorry to hear that. I know it must have been heartbreaking for you.

[@gulliblesbabbles]

Per Cassie’s texting: Know your audience. Text with the people that are super responsive and only occasionally with others. You should be able to read people by the way they respond. You can’t expect everyone to function the same way as you. Make allowances for differences. I would’ve said, “OK, I’m always here and I’ll leave the ball in your court.”

[@rachelreynolds0430]

DKH calling out ridiculous dating coach advice just made my entire day

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Ha!

[@Kimbawarnes]

The beard is a great look! Love your work, very helpful and I’ve learnt lots 😊

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks! I'm unsure about the beard... But I'm glad you've found my yammerings helpful!

[@hillarykleptach8561]

@@PsychologyInSeattle I also approve the beard and find your podcasts very entertaining/educational

[@delagonz4295]

@@PsychologyInSeattleyes you look stunning

[@Aerojuanas]

​@@PsychologyInSeattleyou look great with or without the beard! The longer it gets, the cooler it will look I reckon. How long do you plan on keeping it?

[@lauraliz6782]

I like the beard 🎉!!

[@homeschoolmom8804]

Wow…this hits home. I have never heard someone say that listeners are targeted, but I have always been told (every relationship) that the attraction to me is warmth/listening. In therapy, we’re working on me noticing when I have feelings and setting boundaries. It’s been hard for some people when I started noticing and voicing my preferences.

[@maciw456]

Dr Honda, this unread text issue is a REAL thing. My MIL who is retired, used to drive herself crazy whenever she texted me or my spouse and because we both work FT and had an infant, did not respond to her texts right away. Well this used to bother her so much and create anxiety for her that by the time we checked our phones, it would be PAGES LONG with her declaring at the end, “oh forget I said anything ok? Don’t worry about it, pretend I never texted at all.” 🥴🤷🏻‍♀️

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, texting is an attractive nuisance for some.

[@theonejokeking3191]

I’ve struggled with behaving abusively. For me, it’s an overwhelming need to get relief from uncomfortable feelings or protect myself from perceived harm. If you can control the behavior of others you don’t have to face difficult choices that will be painful, prolong something painful, or potentially endure harm. It’s an attempt to do two things at once, like keep someone incompatible in your life instead of walking away by forcing them to be compatible. It comes with a mindset of feeling overwhelming negative emotions combined with a sudden and total lack of empathy and perspective. I only see myself in those moments. Some sort of intense drive to escape pain. Overall, I do feel great empathy for others though, so it’s incredibly painful to confront my behavior when I come out of that space. If I am not careful that can send me hurling back into a mindset void of empathy and being abusive all over again.

[@hannamiller8749]

My ADHD schema is feeling like none of my teachers ever liked me. Now that I’m an adult and also an educator, my schema makes me feel like I’ll never be a true “professional”.

[@CyndiOliver]

This first case of friend breakup reminded me of my case. but I was the friend who didnt reply as much, because the other side was extra clingy, depressive, unstable, and self pityish. It was exhausting talking to him... when he started saying some innapropriate stuff, I tried to breakup gently, but he kept on trying to contact me. It was a year of blocking every new number, every new social media, I had nightmares and still am terrified of seeing him again.

[@aliceright1]

You reacted totally normal, that "friend" was not honest with you, he pretended to be your friend but it's clear he wanted you in his bed(to be more direct,no offense). It's the worst type, not brave enough to admit that he wants more and get over with it, instead was lurking in the shadows to manipulate you into changing your mind.Very selfish person, proud of you that you cut all contact

[@CyndiOliver]

@@aliceright1 thank you! even though everybody said the same you did, it still was a difficult situation, very tiresome. thanks for the support!

[@vmoonchildtarot]

I had a "friend" from college like this, I remember I had told her for 3 days I wasn't going to have my phone because I had to take it to a tech. Nevertheless she decided to go over to my comment under my Facebook posts, called the company I worked for & finally went over to my house. At the moment I wasn't home but my mom said the look on her face was like she was distrusting my mom's words that I wasn't home. And she was just a acquaintance from college, an older woman than me. After we finished the career I blocked her from every social media, I was afraid as well.

[@Christine-lt9ok]

Yes! I also had an emotionally draining friend who I was trying to distance from. She did not get the memo, and my slowness to respond to texts set her off. It led to me finally confronting her and breaking off the friendship

[@srm0520]

This can be really hard. I recently had a friend who was way more into texting than me and she’s on social media a lot (I’m not on social media) and would send multiple instagrams and TikToks and fb posts daily. Half of them I can’t even see because I don’t have these apps on my phone- which I told her, but she’d keep on sending 😂 the ones I could watch were funny and related to things we’ve talked about but it gets really awkward asking someone to basically stop texting you but still be friends. I genuinely like her and want to be friends but her text communication is way too much

[@missdeathstrawberry9348]

I found this channel a few years ago and always enjoy listening but never commented before. I'm the person who doesn't respond straight away, I have to be in the right headspace and sometimes weeks can go by before I respond. I feel bad when I don't respond and then feel like its too late to respond. Luckily my friends just know thats how I am but its stressful outside of my close circle. Twenty One Pilots is one of my favorite artists. There is actually some lore and themes that exist throughout some of their songs. Different characters that represent the artists struggle with mental health and there are several songs addressing suicide. I would highly recommend listening to more of their stuff. Listening to the full albums is like listening to a journey.

[@sallyann985]

Yeah, I mean. Waiting weeks to respond because you need to be "in the right headspace" (?) is beyond rude and not something most people would put up with or interpret as anything other than you not wanting to talk to them.

[@paulavaleriaarenas3635]

Great episode!! Annd ... The beard looks great!!

[@DanielleMarieW]

Hi Dr. Honda, everything you say about ADHD resonates with me, and I am not on that particular spectrum, but definitely neurodivergent! I have a few friends who have ADHD, recently diagnosed as adults. It’s interesting to see where the symptoms stop, and then the rest is learned behaviour and avoidance techniques. I’m starting to realize, as I go through my own diagnostic process that I have spent most of my life avoiding situations in which I feel overwhelmed by stimuli (noise in particular), people, and difficult social interactions. Initially I thought it was 100% an avoidant attachment style. But now I’m seeing it as part of my neurodivergence. It explains so much. Thank you for this episode and everything you do!

[@baunsujacepierogi]

Im liking the new bearded look.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Thanks, YT Member Baunsu!

[@Daphoenyx]

He looks great with the beard!

[@tomektalk4671]

If you have an iPhone you can turn your “read receipts “ off in your settings and people will then not see if you’ve read/seen the text or not. Just fyi 😊

[@rhead1811]

Dang, one of my friends, who I cherished very much, told me off for eloping with my now husband. She laid it out that I was a bad friend for excluding her on one of the most important days of my life. It was an unexpected friend break up, but in hindsight, and while working with a therapist, I realized she had been harboring resentment towards me for some time. Realizing that helped me walk away

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

I genuinely do not understand how people can text all day, every day. It takes me out of my actual life and I've found it clearly adversely effects my mental health if I try to text that much.

[@AurorasWindow]

I think Cassie needs to ask herself why she wants to reconcile with her friend. To me, it seems that they are compatible. She doesn’t seem to understand and respect that some people just don’t like texting and an impulsive texter can be very overwhelming. I’m the type of person who doesn’t like texting and phone calls. To the point that I’ve had to mute coworkers that wanted to text often 😬 but my friends know this so we don’t text or talk on the phone, like never 😅

[@celineg9022]

Same. Also I don't agree with the advice on reconciliation. I think Dr. Honda is more focused on the means i.e texting because he is taking the words the friend said verbatim. I think this friend wants no contact not no texting, otherwise she wouldn't have blocked Cassie on Instagram. I think if Cassie tries calling her, she'll likely get blocked that way too. If anything the reconciliation initiating should come from the friend's side

[@Steffennation]

So, my niece is married to an extremely dominant guy. He’s not nice to her. He’s not nice to women, in general. I try really hard to get him to feel relaxed in our family settings. It’s getting harder each year. They have a 3 yr old daughter and she is the love of my life. Her Dad is starting to do things like when they leave an outing he will pretend they are leaving without my niece (mom of the 3 yr old), and the toddler will absolutely panic. She cries and screams and he laughs! He actually thinks it’s funny. Ugh, as I write this it’s sounding even worse… I don’t know what, if anything I should or can do. Others in the family talk about this as we are all concerned for my niece and her daughter. But my niece has already got no contact with her sister, whom she was previously very close to, because her sister voiced her concerns aloud. Now my niece’s husband hates her and won’t allow my them to see her anymore. That put us all in our place! My niece gets very defensive when anyone brings up her husband’s behaviour. She gets really pissed off and she sides with her husband. My opinion is that none of us can do anything about this situation. We have to wait until she is done with him and be there for her to pick up the pieces. Also, that might never happen. She might stay in that for the rest of her life. If we push her, they will push back and then she’ll go no contact with us too. We just wait and hope she sees the light at some stage. I don’t know if this is the right approach. If I’m wrong, please tell me. I was in an abusive marriage myself and got out of it when I was ready. I recognize soooo much of what’s happening to her that it’s painful to watch. She has stuck it out for many years more than I did. Maybe she won’t leave him at all. It’sVERY difficult to see him being abuse to their daughter. I don’t know how well I can hold my tongue anymore. Any advice?

[@NotAMuse]

Be there, be supportive, do not disparage the husband because she will feel like she needs to defend him, and do not tell her to leave him. But don’t worry, she sees the behavior and she probably wants to leave too. But she might just not feel ready or safe enough to leave the relationship. Make time to spend with your niece and her daughter so that she knows she’s supported no matter what. That helps her feel empowered. We don’t know her reasons for staying, but you can help remind her that she is an amazing human being who has choices. Maybe one day she will feel safe enough to open up to you because of your consistent and non-judgemental relationship.

[@indesomniac]

"Imagine having parents that only text you" -- I moved away from home 3 years ago and haven't been able to see my family since. I've always struggled with verbal processing and struggle with phone calls, so I've only heard one of my family member's voices a handful of times since I moved. On one hand, text communication IS easier for me. On the other hand, I miss the sounds of their voices. It's a hard situation to be in

[@NotAMuse]

Have you guys tried voice notes? You don’t have to be on the phone and can take your time listening and replying when you can. But you can save them and listen to them later when you miss your family too.

[@Zwantceeto]

Thank God you explained OPP, I thought it was the poly OPP for a moment. Thank you for the video, I learned a lot as always!

[@julianitaalisa]

Hey Dr. Honda, just wanted to mention again that you don't have to worry about getting a strike when reacting to Ren. He is an independent artist and encourages reaction videos and even made a thank you video for his reactors. You don't have to edit your reactions to his videos. Hoping for more Ren reactions :) (How many times can I say "reaction" in one comment? 😅)

[@cladthecrab]

I can understand how the continued texting would frustrate someone who has already decided not to engage, but I think that person could have done a whole lot more to be clearer about the boundary if this was a friendship they truly hoped to maintain. Like you said, with text conversations, we are missing so much, so just telling someone "I don't think we should text" leaves room for so many different interpretations, especially if the person has shown inconsistent or avoidant communication patterns leading up to this. I also wonder if it's a possibility that this is a long-distance friendship? I don't care if my local friends aren't big on texting, because I know it's easy for me to make plans with them and physically see them. With friends who live too far away from me to visit more than maybe once a year at most, those text conversations suddenly matter a whole lot more, because that will be our main way of maintaining closeness. We don't know much about what this relationship looks like outside of these texts communications, so I wonder if having more information on that would change the picture.

[@RaymondJiang444]

I'm glad to hear that you watched 'Superstore!' I thought seasons 2 and 3 were great, and 4 & 5 sort of got crazy. But I thought they did some really good things in the final season as far as character arcs and development.

[@RenayOpish]

One of my favorite shows. Such a great cast.

[@Alayhoo]

The whole discussion around texting was stressful to listen to. As an autistic person, I’m not a fan of talking “just to talk.” I need an explicit reason to justify communication otherwise it feels like a demand and my pervasive drive for autonomy acts up. Anyone else loathe receiving a text message or chat in MS Teams that just says, “Hey”? Re: Emily’s question about common schemas for ADHD. You can find a lot of information about this if you look up internalized ableism and ADHD. We as neurodivergent folks internalize ableism just like the neuromajority. Learning about ableism has been key to breaking free from maladaptive schemas for me.

[@LilBrownieD]

I'm witnessing the beard era and I love it! (cue 1K more beard comments 😅)

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Ha! Yeah, well, I'm guessing those people who dislike the beard are gonna be nice and not mention it. I've been told it makes me look smarter. I'll take it!

[@lilzoie683]

Looking very distinguished, Dr. Honda! (Not in a weird way!) Thanks for another informative video!

[@RaymondJiang444]

I once had a brief relationship (or more of a romantic friendship, looking back) that sounds kind of like the one the Patron and her friend had. In my case, I was the less frequent texter, although before that, I was actually somewhat of a more preoccupied texter. Initially, in our relationship, it was great to have someone who actually seemed to show an enthusiastic interest in me. But it got incredibly draining over time constantly trying to keep up with her texting habits (she was also very affectionate with her texts) and it all culminated in me just stopping contact at one point and her having a meltdown through excessive texts and clingy behavior as a result, which caused me to distance further from her. We eventually did reconcile enough to where we agreed to text each other less, but we basically drifted apart after that.

[@RaymondJiang444]

The points about discussing emotionally-charged topics through text and the lack of nonverbal feedback is so true. It probably explains so much of the discourse and rhetoric on the internet as well. And as someone that doesn't really like talking in-person all that much, texting can definitely help you feel more free, but it doesn't mean you forgo basic social interaction decorum.

[@AurorasWindow]

About reactions to song: there full channels dedicated to reaction to songs and performances, how do they do it? Maybe reach out to them?

[@ImAllisonWonderland]

I haven't been here in a while. The beard is a vibe 😁😁👋🏽

[@marleyofficialmedia]

Love the beard. 🎉

[@irisbear9421]

I completely agree on the read receipts. With emails (at least in outlook) you can request a read receipt for an important email, but I don't even like that either😂

[@pamw.8676]

Please interview relatable Reese on the Jesters. They are group that I think more people should learn about-and would like your view of abuse that she has encountered.

[@NarcBoxTheory]

The third topic is devaluation…again we’re back to palindromic speech and toxic amnesia. Deflection, blame shifting etc are all part of the emotional processes within the narcissist. All emotional regulatory behaviours to either gain narcissistic supply or sadistic supply. These are all part of the five phases of cathexis from love bomb to discard!!

[@Aerojuanas]

Dr K, you sound so much more assertive in your speculations and I love it!! Caveats are nice and necessary to some degree. However, you know your shit and it's nice to hear you confidently unpacking your hypothesis. Perhaps the beard is giving you super powers? 🤔 Or I've taken too much cold medicine and feeling unusually inspired by this episode 😂 (COVID is tearing through Queensland right now)

[@chocolatecat198]

Ooh could it be? First commenter? Love the PIS content, always!

[@ssylvin]

This might be a generation gap thing, as you said. But when someone blocks you on socials for millennial gen ( not sure this persons age but they sound younger) it means they don’t want you in their life at all. This former friend most likely does not want calls or emails or to salvage a relationship or hear anything Cassie has to say. Blocking means I want nothing to do with you. The other person ended the friendship, and was trying to softly do that when she first created the barrier of not wanting texts. There may be information missing here, and Cassie acted badly but idk. It’s a very hurtful situation but she needs to focus on healing and let this girl

[@you_ok186]

Ok, Dr kirk honda, i need a help from you identifying something, here is the story: Recently I had called out someone for their religious misogyny & he started to say things like " I am irritating, overreacting, make things complicated" but never directly replied to my call out, I got a lot anxiety there, respectfully said, "it does trigger my anxiety & depression" & his friends including a woman got so offended on that & told me to "not to be proud of my anxiety"( it was very awful to say someone) and constantly tried to insult me, then I shared the whole thing with someone whom I thought was a special friend & she started to directly insult me, twisting words which I didn't pronounce to play victim on my situation, she literally said," I thought you were intelligent but you are being dumb right now, you made a mistake, you are ruining the reputation of our people now, you dont know how to react, etc etc", I was so amazed at this because I never misbehaved with her, use personal insults on her, was always supportive of her, never said anything offensive towards her, even I clearly replied that I am not making dumb mistake, I am trying to have healthy standards by calling that out which she again got offended & said,"So you are saying I am cheap & unhealthy, you know what your problem is, you cannot accept your mistakes,etc, you are this, you are that" & removed me from my friends messenger group which I created, blocked me after giving me silent treatments, it was so painful that I cried the whole night & couldn't eat anything that night. She was from the same religion & acts very feminine & hates women who are not that. She is also a homophobe who does not find them natural, when I confronted her on that she said," i dont support their abuse but they are yikes", she also gave me silent treatment to me prior multiple times, I always ignored her toxicity & was blind to her mistakes, But I am speechless on that. I shared the call out screenshots to my other atheist friends & none of them insulted me, in fact advised me to avoid this people. I wish I could show you the ss but please tell me if she gaslighted me or not, I am actually feeling bad about myself & confused.

[@FresaPictures]

The sound is a bit too sharp 😢

[@spookypenguins]

No because if someone can’t say “hey I saw your message. Let me get back to you later” then they’re saying they don’t have 1 minute of their time to give to you. That’s not a relationship I want. I get not responding immediately or even hours later. However waiting days is not cool.

[@liambraithewaite6415]

Bad advice with the friendship thing. It feels like there is some victim blaming going on here actually. You are putting so much burden on this Cassie girl and critiquing everything she 'did wrong' and making her blame herself for blowing her chances on 'salvaging' this friendship. It's the complete wrong message. It should never have turned into what it did and why is she even being put in a position of trying to 'win her friend back' in the first place? It's completely unbalanced and simultaneously giving and taking away false hope. If anything, Cassie needs to realise that she is worth more than someone who treats her like this. And also, on what planet would it end well to tell your former friend 'hey I just got some random psych to analyse our issue and here's the link. Hope you can understand the problems between us and everything I did wrong so we can be friends again.' If you want someone to run a mile, do that. But also, way to go in advising her to completely abandon any form of self respect and take responsibility for everything in the hopes of retrieving a friendship the other person killed. If you have a friend that is controlling the means of communication and puts up a wall like that, the friendship is done. You're basically being told that you can't contact her and if she is then saying she still wants a friendship, she wants a friendship on her terms only. Walk away! This whole concept of someone being a 'bad texter' in this day and age is a load of crap. Everyone is on their phones all the time. I'm sure she is a great texter with the people she wants to text. When someone says they are a 'bad texter', it means they either don't want to put the effort into the friendship and/or they are manipulating it to see if you will chase them for breadcrumbs. Either way, its game over and you deserve better.

[@delagonz4295]

I don’t think it’s bad advice, I felt he hit a lot of good points here. However, I agree with your statement, if my friend told me not to contact her I would take THAT as the actual breakup. It sounds like there is a lot of information missing here and Im not an expert but I do feel for Cassie.

[@Sharon-fc6lz]

Hmmm, Cassie is not a victim, just someone who doesn't seem able to let go. Her friend told her what she wanted and she didn't respect that. She doesn't seem to respect herself either (after a couple of no responses, most people would've let it go, especially when you see that the other person has seen your messages) The burden is on her because she wants the friendship and the other girl doesn't. Honestly, after she received the text about texting less, she could've asked to have a call for clarification, and she might not have gotten that either. Instead, she continued to do what this other girl didn't want, and when she didn't get a response, she e-mailed her. At what point does she take responsibility, do what's in her control and say, " This sucks, it hurts that I've been rejected, but that doesn't mean I'm a bad person. It's going to take a while to get over this, but I'll respect this friends wishes and move on." Trying to get someone to react how you want is not going to work i.e. acknowledge that they hurt you when that might not be their perception is pointless. Of course, share how their actions affected you but persistently bringing it up when the other party is clearly not interested is not it. Their non-verbal communication is also communication.

[@liambraithewaite6415]

@@Sharon-fc6lz I disagree from the perspective that there is a lack of empathy in how the other person handled this. Now there could be more to the story and we could find out that Cassie had really pushed this person to the edge and had been given numerous opportunities prior to this happening...these are things we don't know and will never know. But I think it is pretty harsh to condemn someone for struggling to deal with that kind of rejection, especially if they were completely blindsided without much of an understanding behind why. I went through a similar thing with a work friend and it was pretty devastating. It was a solid two year friendship, but I began distancing myself after continuously putting myself out for them. I didn't want the friendship to end but I was setting some boundaries because I knew I wasn't being treated right and I was beginning to feel some resentment. Their reaction to my boundaries was to cut me off altogether which was not the outcome I intended, I was just trying to protect my wellbeing in a dynamic that had become uneven. The rest of my time there, I had to put up with this constant hostility and passive-aggression from them to the point I was having to avoid them altogether. My best guess was there was some envy with my promotion, but I also think they were manipulative and wanted the friendship on their terms. Its that kind of response that makes relationships and friendships feel so unsafe nowadays, because people will just drop you without a care if you don't do what they want, and you're just expected to pick up the pieces. Now you might say that that's life, but its a pretty cold thing to have to deal with. We shouldn't be normalising pulling the rug out from under people and callously discarding them and then blaming the person who was hurt by it for not reacting perfectly.

[@Sharon-fc6lz]

@liambraithewaite6415 I don't think anyone is condemning Cassie and like you mentioned we don't know the full story but we do know that only she can take control of what's within her power. Make the decision of, I don't like how this person has made me feel and I won't keep waiting for something they are not willing to give. I've also had 2 situations at work were someone's behaviour changed towards me and I didn't know why. The first time, this person just started ignoring me, wouldn't greet me, would avoid eye contact. For weeks I tried to figure out if I had said or done something wrong. At some point I became angry with her and wondered why she couldn't just be an adult and tell me what the problem was and stopped trying to engage with her. She started to slowly to try engaging with me again and at this point I was over it. She seemed to realise this and became overly nicer. I never found out what her problem was and never asked and just moved on. I don't know if this was the right way to handle that situation. The 2nd time it happened at a different job with a different person, I outright asked them if everything was OK when I noticed them becoming more reserved with me. A manager had basically implied that I implicated them over some error, which wasn't true and told her the true story. I was already wary of this manager but finding out what she had done made me more cautious. Me and this colleague became closer and we'd swap stories of anything that was going on so something like this wouldn't happen again. All I know is people sometimes do things that hurt you intentionally or unintentionally for their own wellbeing just as you do. Sometimes no one is the "bad" person and sonetimes they consistently terrible to you and you should cut them off. People are too different for anything to always go what is perceived the right way of handling any given situation.

[@Aerojuanas]

Cassie ignored her friends understandable boundary 🤷

[@erikag9456]

Sounds like someone I wouldn't want to be friends with