Academy Conversations: 'Whiplash'

[@kieran-735]

Miles didn't get enough Oscar Buzz around him, he was incredible so believable, him and J.K was the best pairing on screen on the year

[@jaketownsend3387]

This decade, if you ask me.

[@robertweekes5783]

I really hope to see him in more big movies! Like the next Joseph Gordon Levite

[@leroyrodgers6089]

@@robertweekes5783 And then there was Top Gun.

[@AA-qb7ni]

People don't talk about how great Miles was. He played the drums in all his scenes so perfectly and acted so well throughout the film.

[@itsketa]

It was definitely very believable to the Layman's eye, but not perfect. Not to take away from one of my favourite Films, yet its biggest criticism I see comes from musicians themselves.

[@cellyzs]

​@@itsketaas a drummer myself, I'm sure if you focus hard enough you'll notice a mistake but it's nowhere near enough for someone to be like "hey that's not real. Whole movie sucks" like wtf

[@boozalm3715]

No he didn't

[@DartNoobo]

​@@itsketabecause this movie is not a music, but a sport movie in its core ideas and structure.

[@Jombo1]

JK Simmons seems like a really nice and fun guy. It's weird to see him like that after watching the movie.

[@RosekillProductions]

Maybe it's because he was JK.

[@toprak3479]

James that was so fucking smooth...

[@notsureiL]

Jombo Have you seen Oz 😬 Otherwise you need to look up Schillinger on KZbin.

[@gagandevj6206]

Ever heard of Acting?

[@clydeconnorquillin9284]

Hey man whats changed in 7 years

[@HeelPower200]

my god...its scary seeing Fletcher just sitting there..I was on edge the whole time expecting him to snap any second lol One of the greatest performances of all time.

[@kompozytor5555]

If you really have to write the God's name (this time you don't have to), it is written with a capital letter.

[@Tortuga629]

Kompozytor5 god.

[@MrKilakilo]

+Kompozytor5 not my tempo

[@KDowah]

+Kompozytor5 if you could avoid pushing your religious practices on other people that would be great, thanks.

[@aaronortega5375]

The bot is like the kid trying to get the separated parents to stop arguing

[@StuartLoria]

Best ending in a movie I have ever seen. Great villain and good belligerent argument, also there is no waste in the characters, all help to tell the history and to convey the points to the viewer

[@svenvdv2880]

Hows life

[@Lcsmu]

No wasted dialogues

[@tomaspaul8104]

The thing that I really admire about this film, specifically the ending scene is that Andrew wasn't aggressive towards Fletcher, he fought back in such a dignified way and didn't stoop down to Fletcher's level, he simply gave the performance of his life and actions really did speak louder than words and Fletcher could see that Andrew had morphed into the musician that Fletcher had been searching for! Just a masterpiece!

[@andrewdodderidge2877]

How did Damien Chazelle not get a directing nomination?

[@AskAir]

He won only a few yrs later

[@matthewrobinson2053]

@@AskAir He still should’ve got a nomination. Thankfully the British academy gave him one.

[@midkrylegda7887]

He should be nominated instead of Morten Tyldum.

[@fikrijuanda6321]

Because there only 5 of them, where best picture have 9 slot

[@KeithCasey973]

Would’ve loved to see Fletcher’s backstory, but he’s much more relatable as a teacher with the vague background. Better for the story by far

[@samuelbmichel]

I hate describing this as a "music movie" because even though it celebrates jazz and the thrill of jazz music, it's very much about the symbiotic nature of an abusive relationship. In that sense J.K. Simmons and Miles Teller are downright brilliant. It's a shame Teller will probably not get nominated because the Best Actor lineup this year is so talented (Carell, Cumberbatch, Cooper, etc) but Simmons is as close to a shoe-in for a nomination as I can think of.

[@Starlightean]

So right. Now that I think about it in the play parts I focused on the emotion of the scene, the intensity of the drum stick and the drive behind that instead of the instrument playing although the music was important in creating tension too. But it's definitely not a movie about the music itself.

[@programmer1840]

Definitely agree with this, it's about an abusive relationship, but the pros and cons are not so clean cut. Very relatable to me.

[@imienazwisko9188]

Master piss.

[@benjaminknotts745]

An hour in I thought it more of a horror film

[@KufLMAO]

oh lol, got caught by surprise by the end of that. I thought this this interview was after he got the award

[@BASELFIELD01]

It's like Black Swan with drumsticks!

[@imotogin]

Black swan was a bit over the top with imagery tho, what with a ballerina growing feathers. Some zoo symbolism. Whiplash on the other hand was spot on in every way.

[@juanp7873]

@@imotogin that was part of the story. She became insanse. The role of the black swan overtook her so thats why she grew those wings. It was a cinema thing not for accuracy its meant to become a bit fantastical

[@dr.g.o.a.t.ph.d9250]

And just a little bit better

[@kelpkelp5252]

Insightful

[@terencefletcher5139]

Fletcher was more intriguing imo than Black Swan’s mentor

[@LuKasAV6]

I'm too dumb and numb to appreciate the subtly of Boyhood, but Whiplash struck a nerve, and I loved every minute of it. J.K. AND MILES were A-MA-ZING!

[@tyefoster4935]

Boyhood wasn't subtle, it was cloying and hamfisted, full of annoying platitudes. It's decent as a piece of nostalgia and the concept is unique and executed decently but its screenplay is just weak.

[@sarcasticsugar4466]

***** Boyhood was completely and utterly cliche. The only thing that made it noteworthy was that it was filmed over a period of 12 years with the same actors. If this hadn't happened, it would be no different from a ton of other predictable, cheesy coming-of-age movies.

[@Charlotte8591]

​@@sarcasticsugar4466that monologue at the end from Patricia Arquette though...

[@magicman205]

No movie this year was more deserving of awards than Whiplash. Fuck the Hollywood Foreign Press. Fuck the Academy. This thing was snubbed in almost every category.

[@jwebb4750]

No it wasn't

[@magicman205]

Jack Webb This was during the Golden Globes. I know now about its many nominations for the Oscars (rightfully so)

[@LymbicSystemuwu]

Whiplash was alright, but you sound like it was the only movie you've seen last year.

[@eton13_]

Well it isn't like Miles (Scarface) Teller deserved any consideration for his performance

[@eton13_]

***** GREAT MOVIE in caps to emphasize how good it was but there is a reason Miles didn't woo anybody with what he did

[@topshonuff]

Now I want to see JK Simmons play as a Drill Instructor.

[@stitchlover4381]

he has a GREAT talent for yelling. like Daniel Day-Lewis

[@ernestmendez5487]

As a musician I could tell the director had not only played, but had performed live, and perhaps even well. That out of body experience at the end of the movie happened to me when I was, in the words of Halford, locked in to my performance and kicking ass live. Though I was always high and drunk when I was playing. So who really knows.

[@cincinnatus0875]

Saw Whiplash a couple days ago. Great movie!

[@noobtoob3378]

5 years ago holy shit

[@ramlethalxoxo]

Still great this 2021

[@WInnerwinnerchickendinner.]

Give J.K. Simmons an Oscar.He has earned it.

[@WInnerwinnerchickendinner.]

Just watched it and I have watched 10,s of thousands of movies.I rate this movie in the top 10.Possibly top 5.A masterpiece and I didn't really like Jazz until I saw this movie. A masterpiece.

[@justinwilbur5158]

An absolute must see for everyone who enjoys the cinematic pleasure of J.K. Simmons, Miles Teller and loves brilliant writing! This movie leaves you on the edge of your seat the whole time, an emotionally challenging role for Miles, and he knocks it out of the park, J.K. follows in suit! 9/10 must see everyone! Happy holidays!

[@HDmexsComboCon]

My picks for the best of 2014: Best Actor: Michael Keaton (Birdman) with Jake Gyllenhaal a close second (Nightcrawler) Best Supporting: JK Simmons (Whiplash) with Steve Carrell a good consideration (Foxcatcher) Best Actress: Rosamund Pike (Gone Girl) Best Supporting: Keira Knightley (The Imitation Game) Best Director: Alejandro González Iñárritu (Birdman) Best Picture: I have a tie between Birdman and Whiplash. I just loved both of those movies.

[@tvtorelover]

Steve Carrell isn't supporting though, his role in Foxcatcher would qualify for Best Actor.

[@voxeschlong8694]

Imogen Pearson It really shouldn't though, since it's really Channing Tatum that carries the film.

[@voxeschlong8694]

He was great as well, but the film is really Mark's story and the events that led to Dave's death

[@luvintheacoustic]

Where is Boyhood in that list???

[@HDmexsComboCon]

far far far away from it.

[@Oscars]

Miles Teller discusses relearning how to play drums for ‘Whiplash' | #AcademyConversations ►► kzbin.info7M0BlQlX0no

[@ianpearson8976]

imagine the new star wars movie had 1% of the intensity and passion this masterpiece had.

[@hairychicken7235]

The way you know that someone deserves an oscar is when you see them in an average interview setting and think they’re going to break into character at any moment. One of the best performances i’ve ever seen from any actor. Bravo JK!

[@lisalarm6582]

I absolutely love this movie and these actors. Great ending

[@cooperbaird1192]

Man J.k. Seems so genuinely engaged with the convo. He and Miles were so good

[@niharikajaisudan]

this was one film i watched so many times. i rarely watch any film a second time even if i like it alot. this film was so engaging. this film was so good

[@rmmusic2108]

Just watched this I can’t believe they didn’t get an Oscar unbelievable acting

[@kyorikusagami84]

What??

[@nivid_jr]

bro the movie got 3 oscars lmao

[@danielmedrano7137]

Dear writers of Whiplash, excellent movie. Will be a life long fan. Could you please write a sequel and/or spin-off where Terrence Fletcher teaches/coaches other academic subjects? Subjects like knitting class, marching band, chess team. I want to watch this character teach more subjects.

[@Twiiqz01]

knitting class are u fucked!?!?

[@danielmedrano7137]

Twiiqz01 Aren't there great knitters out there that need to be discovered, and the last thing they need to be told is "good job", the worst two words in the English language.

[@RCAvhstape]

Do a search on Whiplash Farmers Insurance mashup, someone made a vid of Fletcher filming the Farmer's Insurance commercial and abusing the "Wea are Farmers" choir.

[@Twiiqz01]

Daniel Medrano your mind is on a happy meal dude thats not quite my tempo

[@MaxBrilhart]

+Daniel Medrano It's actually just one writer and that's Damien Chazelle

[@alinerz93]

Notice how this "Academy Conversations" video has 149k views and the one for the Best Picture winner, Birdman, only has 27k views. Whiplash deserved to win Best Picture :( It was amazing.

[@gazellepop]

Imagine if Fletcher meets Walter White from Breaking Bad...

[@n0kki85]

Seemba Or if you watch Oz tv-series, it's just might be WW who would have got raped.

[@babykangarootribbiani2766]

TableTurn He is the DANGER! He is the one who knocks!

[@dontbothermeimjust12]

TableTurn Walter White had the balls to stare down at drug kingpins, making them shut up and killing them afterwards. Fletcher was a bully but he wouldn't survive a WW any day of his life.

[@undericesinger]

@@n0kki85 WW would out smart him if he was in danger. Even his OZ character would fall to WW just do Walt can keep his life of crime going.

[@ililililil8385]

he'd die

[@carlgrimeseyepatch27]

I'm so sad miles isn't up for an Oscar he definitely should have been im so baffled by the fact he isn't ....

[@BASELFIELD01]

c.k Simmons' character terrified me more than any villian II've seen for quite sometime.

[@coolcatgal1]

Same I was literally scared for my life while watching this movie

[@DinkyMate]

Not quite my tempo

[@soraceant]

oh god

[@IAmLordMeatwad]

Is there a second part? I want to hear Damien answer that question at the end!

[@JaceHarnage]

I just love, love love J. K. Simmons! I was introduced to him when he played the terrifying white supremacist character in "Oz." He is absolutely fascinating! I've seen him in other movies and TV shows and he has perfect comic timing! I am a Farmer's Insurance client because of the hilarious commercials in which is the instructor at Farmer's University!! Nice upper body as well!! :-)

[@littlebigman45]

Miles Teller should be on Workaholics

[@SinisterRealist]

Why? Just because he's been in a terrible movie called Divergent doesn't mean he should be on a terrible TV show.

[@mrjonno]

What a great start to 2015. Excellent movie as was 'Theory of Everything' and 'Birdman'. I'm interested to see how Miles Teller will develop and JK Simmons is under utilised.

[@cheng1768]

What was Birdman about?

[@mrjonno]

An actor trying to get rid a of a persona that had overcome him? Not sure how deep to go on the metaphorical but we do seem to be a movie going audience based in supernatural/fantasy unrealism based in provoking imagination rather than grappling with reality. We live in a f...ed world because we promote it and live it. In the end the bird blew its beak off but could not cope with reality. Superheroes are not reality. Humans need to learn humility and collaboration living in reality. We are a mess as long as we take guidance from a comic character. That's what I got from it. Not an easy watch.

[@darKILLusionnn]

mrjonno Haha. I agree. After the movie, my friend and I sat down and tried to have a discussion on what we just watched. After trying to explain what the story and point of the film had been, both of us agreed we needed more time to think about it. Definitely not an easy watch.

[@mrjonno]

***** Looking forward to the DVD release in the UK so I can try to get to the bottom of this. I suspect I won't as the director has been brilliant to get across the mindset that is perfection in emotion, an impossibility but the marque of genius. As a rational and scientific based person I will never be driven to take purely value based behaviours. That having been said I found this to be an emotional roller-coaster of a movie and one where I will enjoy at least a second watch to get the nuances. A truly great movie.

[@jguo52]

Such a great movie

[@yayayaokoksure]

Whiplash is a masterpiece.

[@HotPocketsBoy]

Orange pants. this guy has on orange....pants

[@AlejandroAlexHernandez]

First! Anyways, good conversation. Keep it up Academy! :) -- Yours truly from a loyal fan!

[@topshonuff]

I still want to know what happened to the music book that was on the chair and why was Andrew told to come to class 2 Hrs early, but other drummer was told the correct time?

[@gothkrix]

My theory, regarding both those things are that the book was actually "stolen" by Fletcher himself, and the 2 hrs early thing was probably just to test Andrew and/or mess with him.

[@buddafingahz9057]

A great movie that I recommend often.

[@rossonero135]

Wow.. Starting from scratch.... Respect 👏

[@rickkire]

Excellent movie..very driven

[@SilentDanDisney]

Jazz. Now the first half of this Q&A. That explains why Jazz also showed up in follow up La La Land. It’ll probably show up again in his next Feature whenever that one comes.

[@sanyrub]

Incredible film. So happy it got the nomination for bes picture. So surprising but deserved. I think Whiplash and The Imitation Game are the best contenders. Some of the others are a little bit overrated (and American Sniper shouldn´t even be there). I would have given a best actor nomination to Milles Teller too. Both were sooo good.

[@gadgetgeek96]

7:21 Damien Chazelle says moneyshot XD

[@ladyInLongBeachCA]

what a great movie. wish more movie like this to come out instead of all those hollywood hype

[@elpkhan]

I watched the Lou Samporini story first . Then I saw Whiplash and it was about Lou Samporini in Music school . I'm a musician and I don't know what to make of this movie .

[@SignOfTheTimes008]

I'd love to see some of the scenes if they were really shot of Fletcher's background.

[@nimahanna1709]

What is weirder, sitting beside someone who you slept with on screen or abused you on screen?

[@APR944]

Love Miles Teller. Xo's

[@ivurivurivur]

Birdman was a good film. But Whiplash was better.

[@seancollins6524]

Fabulous Movie 🎬 a fantastic story telling. Looking in from Ireland 🇮🇪

[@hawkeyenextgen7117]

Back when I was in 10th grade, I was in the wrestling class. I was only approximately 120 Ibs at the time and underweight. One day early in the season, my collarbone and ribcage became misaligned. My arms horizontal movement became restricted due to the pain. I asked everyone; my coach, my teachers, my parents to help me see a Chiropractor. No one took me seriously. Because of this injury which I was forced to wrestle with or fail the class, I never won a single match. I felt absolutely devastated. I refuse to see this movie because I am afraid of reliving my own trauma. It’s because of this trauma I fail to understand how so many people including Chris Stuckmann can praise a work like this, and because I fail to understand I feel weak, incompetent, and outcast. Sometimes I feel like all the critics are begging me to see it else I’m missing out on something great; the performance of a lifetime. Is it okay to feel deathly afraid of a film such as this?

[@edmontonboy99]

You don’t have to listen to them, if you don’t want to watch the movie that’s up to you man. Keep doing what you’re doing.

[@151Sharon]

This is such an excellent film.

[@BH21206]

A Hank Levy inspired movie-story and not one acculation credit except that the title -song was written by him-shame. As a point of fact Hank did,at one time, hurl a tobaco plug at one of the band members (the madman in the film threw a much more dangerous projectile).Hank , always with that quaint of his smile,was an inspiration and a real human being to many a musician who came from all over to be under his tutelage. R I P H L.

[@SalamiKing7]

Great movie! Question: What’s with the scars on Miles Teller’s face and throat?

[@sofia.ysabel]

22 people didn't know if they were rushing or dragging

[@chuckychuck8318]

Imagine if Fletcher met Florence Foster Jenkins

[@2Chickaboom2]

I think leaving out Fletchers personal life was a good call for the story. It wasnt a story for Fletcher to grow and learn from, it was Andrew's story and being his age, accented his college days where we are self-focused more than later in life. Intended or not it shows great director intuitions.

[@calilove5758]

I watch this movie all the time. So fkn great

[@alberteinsteinthejew]

Why does Miles start look like Patrick Dempsey here?

[@waffleweave]

Whoo boy, if JK Simmons doesn't win Best Supporting Actor...

[@megarnerich2632]

My cousin introduce me to watch this looks like a rad movie I love Miles Teller

[@bloodboiling4451]

One of the best movies ever

[@TeresaMarlena]

Miles looks like young Marlon Brando :)

[@gabiocampo6639]

Yo soy música y aún así no dejaría qué ningún maestro me tratara así 😂

[@grkbouzoukiplayer]

What are the name of the movies he was told to watch? The rage and control.

[@Frannea]

Raging Bull

[@danielbustos6862]

My favorite movie

[@dosadi512]

Amazing movie.

[@thehutch1674]

I will be forever scared of JK Simmons

[@Frederick0220]

3 of Amerika'z Most Wanted right here!

[@bucklakelukie]

J.K. Simmons should face off against Gordon Ramsay

[@saadafzal7794]

I want more Terence Fletcher!!!!!

[@josephphimen4915]

MILES !!!

[@drmindriot]

Brilliant film!

[@FatsacksAllday]

I LOVE THIS MOVIE!!!!!!!

[@xebio6]

Art is inspiration + perspiration, This movie only shows the sweat. "Faster... faster..." WTF? Where's the soul, the subtlety, the joy, the personality? Art is not (should'nt be) a sport. Some art schools/teachers may be like the ones portrayed in Whiplash, but I think if you have to become a friggin' robot in order to achieve greatness, I'm not sure I'd like to go through all that shit to become "the next Bird".

[@dominiksipos7836]

Kontroll is such a good movie, but i've never thougt i'd hear abt it here.

[@moedify]

ahh, Andrew Namien sound like Damien. I see you did there sherlock.

[@martinprasil4881]

control is must watch! :D

[@CalvinJakoby]

did anyone here know jk Simmons from portal 2 first?

[@GugaGDFABC]

I think most of the people know him from the first Spider-Man trilogy as Jameson.

[@CalvinJakoby]

***** whaaat i don't even remember that role

[@Dustinwhy8]

NOT QUITE MY TEMPO!!!!

[@imienazwisko9188]

Film about Buddy Rich would make more sense.

[@michaelchoki2133]

Trully I think movie this is what steve jobs would have wanted his life and project to be potrayed

[@plothotdisaster4980]

espetacular

[@gillianboden6735]

Try going to a Christian brother school in Ireland. They were awful. That made me think of those days

[@carisv2834]

This movie is dope....why didn't it receive more accolades????

[@wolfgangamadeusmozartphotos]

Why do I hear omni man?

[@jovangorgi]

Thank God for Redford or this would be disaster . BTW kid 10x for telling my story . And send a copy to Jennifer , Congratulation to J.K. Simmons

[@adityadp6702]

It’s just me or no, but Miles seems little bit look like Elvis.

[@Dunch4]

6:30 nice belly button Miles

[@pintofgames9178]

Who else wants a prequel

[@Ranger1216]

Film was very intense, dramatic….JK really was the star. The drumming was mostly canned and Miles can not play as the prodigy the script indicates. He is miscast as a drummer, many out there that are exceptional that would have given more credibility. As a drummer, I was disappointed, hoping to hear a real gifted musician….However, the response is overwhelming favoring the acting. Miles showed he is a guy who self-taught without having the practice time to develop…..you cannot do it overnight bleeding like the stigmata…..

[@GodsJoseph13]

Oh

[@SillySod75]

Am I the only one who didn't like boyhood at all?

[@NganTran-pv3ug]

Oh, J.K Simmons :) his characteristics outside are so soft

[@laviergededomremy9670]

I truly find indecent how everybody here tries to hide the real meaning of what is clearly a horror movie (let's just remember Chazelle is the authour of the script of the sequel to "The Last Exorcism", 2013). Whiplash is in fact nothing but a lucid and not at all regretful description of an evident Faustian fall. It is clearly a modern tragedy depicting the collapse of a human conscience into the chasm of perdition, but I would dare say a decadent tragedy, providing no catharsis to its characters, nor to its public. That is not art, nor drama: that is simply Hollywood, an industry pursuing a programme of "mind control", spreading an ideological propaganda defined by the canons of the USIA (United States Information Agency), aiming at diffusing worldwide the classical "disvalues" of the American sub-culture: competitivity, careerism, a Darwinian logics of survival, so to speak. At this regard, I would first consider how the meaning of the ending scene is not at all ambiguous as it may seem, but it rather conveys the following contents: 1) You can't be a genius if you are not recognised as such: in order to be a genius you have to conquer success; 2) You have to sell your soul to the devil in order to be a genius, and so to reach greatness and success. 3) It is worthy to sell your soul to the devil in order to get to that (greatness is surely a higher ideal than virtue or human dignity). The end justifies the means. But the end doesn't justifiy the means at all, when the loss implied by the latter is greater than what you can aspire to gain. Also, certain ends are not at all obtenaible by certain means: how could one become an artist losing his soul, when the soul is a necessary premise for art? One last consideration: here J.K. Simmons is clearly lying (as his own character does) while stating that Fletcher's aim is to "pull out greatness" from his pupils. Fletcher, the sadic manipulator embodying the mephistophelic principle, as a failed musician himself (why would he be a mere music teacher, if he was a "great" himself?), doesn't seek genius in order to make it flourish, but rather to destroy it. And how does it come to this? Transforming the love for art into crazy ambition, from which no genius will ever spring out (as it is rather the fruit of inspiration). Did maybe John Lennon, Syd Barrett or Joni Mitchell (just to mention some of the greats) aim at becoming "great" or were not they simply "great", in that they had something great to say? Also, did they maybe need a Fletcher to discover their genius? The truth is real genius doesn't even need a teacher, since it is teacher to himself. He doesn't long for exhibiting himself, but for expressing himself. He doesn't long for the world laurels, but rather for the elixir of life.

[@leeg2425]

+La Vierge de Domremy haha great thoughts, I like your mind! One thing I wasn't certain of in your comment though - do you feel the film's intentional internal message is in line with Fletcher's viewpoint? You say the film is lucid but not regretful in its depiction of a tragedy - my reading of the film was it is very consciously depicting a tragedy, and it succeeds in horrifying the viewer so deeply because we have been coached (just like Andrew) into adopting and internalising Fletcher's view of reality. I thought the film built in plenty of suggestion that what is happening to Andrew from his first encounter with Fletcher right through to apotheosis is tragic and deeply disturbing, because the film successfully plays with the audience's sense of reality, of what's real and what's not (just as Fletcher repeatedly breaks and distorts and subverts Andrew's sense of reality and sense of himself until Andrew finally completely adopts Fletcher's view of reality - a classic dynamic of an abusive relationship - and most perverse of all, Andrew does this during a moment where he believes himself to be engaging in the ultimate act of rebellion against all Fletcher stands for). It is more horrifying to understand why the characters both feel they have succeeded at the end - more horrifying than if the film had been explicitly didactic about stating that Andrew had been destroyed and that what he becomes in the end is not an autonomous artist, but rather a sort of "perfect machine" of Fletcher's design - the only student ever to withstand the battering into shape that Fletcher subjected them all to, and what he is at the end is just that: Fletcher's shape. I like thinking about a version of reality for this story where what Andrew plays at the end is actually terrible and makes no sense at all to anyone with any appreciation or understanding of music...except Fletcher. I would find that so incredibly creepy, if the film was saying "objectively his playing was terrible - but Fletcher had so totally dominated and obliterated and re-installed Andrew's *subjective* experience that Andrew believed he was playing great because Fletcher had conditioned him to think he was playing well only when Fletcher said so" ! it's like an alternate ending that conveys in the most explicit way just what is so creepy about Andrew's complete, euphoric, sublime submission to indoctrination at the end.

[@laviergededomremy9670]

+Grey Goose Kind friend, thank you so much for your insightful reply. I indeed agree with some acute observations of yours (mostly in regard of the devilish metamorphosis of the protagonist from human creature to some sort of puppet, or telecontrolled machine), and yet I cannot really approve your overall interpretation of the film. First of all, if the director's intention had been to display a critical view of its main character's logics, he would have indeed made that explicit, stressing its inconsistency and showing the conflicts and contradictions rising from that. On the contrary, I believe making the spectator adhere to Fletcher's point of view, which is indeed horrifying, has the mere purpose of pushing the public to agree with the necessity of such horror. Indeed Chazelle is aware of depicting a tragedy: he himself states he represented the death of a soul, but the issue is he did arrange no "funeral" for it, which is unforgivable from both a moral and an aesthetical point of view. Nowhere in the film there is room for the action of some Universal Law, or Nemesis... This is why, as I have already stated, the film actually provides no catharsis to the spectator (which is what differentiates a tragedy from a mere horror film) and it rather clearly sets forth the triumph of his character's perspective. After all, not even any of the performers ever stressed the hypotethical critical cut you theorize... Let's just consider what J.K. Simmons states here above (a clear justification of his character's logics) or Miles Teller's usual pale comments about the need of respecting artistic passion, no matter what it may imply. In my opinion, the ambiguous final scene is an excellent, cunning device to present a corrupting work as an open work... Things woud have indeed been different if Chazelle had introduced at least a hint to the inescapable psychological breakdown of his protagonist in the ending, or if he had somehow made clear, as you yourself state, that his final performance had actually nothing brilliant, and overall nothing artistic. On the contrary, he awarely presents a moral collapse in the form of an apotheosis, leading astray the public concerning a correct interpretation of the represented facts, and contributing to consolidate the established cliché according to which art springs out from suffering, whereas not only art can be generated by various emotional states (basically linked to the intuition of Sublime) but, most importantly, it can never ever spring out from morbidity.

[@leeg2425]

+La Vierge de Domremy I love hearing your thoughts! I think finally I must agree with you, in particular your points about the story having no Universal Law or Nemesis, I think the problem is that Chazelle maybe wants to have it both ways, he wants to present Fletcher's behaviour as repellant and unjustifiable...and yet he holds Fletcher up as the only possible means of Andrew utterly sacrificing himself for his art. It's as if the sacrifice can only happen if the artist submits to abuse and in fact accepts that this abuse as necessary and purifying, enabling them to shed all weakness or artistic compromise. The argument seems to be that human greatness in some sense requires and demands self immolation. I thought perhaps I disagreed with your concluding statement about cinema having a moral obligation or social responsibility to present artists as healthy - or rather, to condemn or skewer the cliche of the self-destructive artist. I thought about that and my instinctive response (which would be the same response I think many of the people who love this film would have) was at first: "No, cinema is not morally obliged to represent healthy-minded artists who do not self-destruct in order to create" -- but then as I thought about it more, I think you are right when you say this is a very tired cliche that we've seen many times, to the point where it is served up in film after film as sort of a truism that society just takes for granted. When one already accepts the premise of the film, and the film then just reinforces it uncritically, it presents the argument as if there is only one side. I found the character of Andrew's father in particular (but the girlfriend character as well) incredibly insubstantial. In the world Chazelle has created, it really seems there is no other road to greatness or artistic integrity for Andrew asides from through Fletcher's method - and Chazelle never suggests that artistic greatness can be arrived at in any other way. It is Fletcher's view, but I agree with you, it does also seem to be the film's view - and the way i feel about this film now is, it's like an answer to the wrong question. The film's question seems to be "is it morally right for an artist to be destroyed as long as it is in the service of producing great art?" - the question is never: "Is the destruction of the artist necessary to create great art?" or "Why do we so commonly assume that true creativity can only arise from miserable circumstances, inhumanity, self-immolation, deprivation, suffering of the artist?" Kindness and humanity is just taking the easy way out, the film seems to say, and can only ever lead to an inner-death of a different, infinitely worser kind - a creeping smothering creative death, a very feeble death of never truly living life. That is overly simplistic and morbid indeed... And yet...I feel like this attitude is so prevalent because, in American culture especially, there is a backlash against emotional vulnerability and what is basically summed up in Fletcher's "there are no words that are so dangerous as good job" speech, the self-help, feel-good-about-yourself culture, the culture of "you get a prize just for participating". I see a big backlash against this attitude everywhere, people seem really to loathe this, the same as there is a loathing of psychotherapy, but also loathing of the vacuousness of consumer culture, and I see a lot of movies in this tone of backlash, I think "Fight Club" is probably very like "Whiplash" in what it appeals to in its audience. And I find myself exhausted with this backlash. I think it's misguided and it lumps humanity and compassion and gentleness and emotional complexity / emotional intelligence into the same group as "you get a prize just for showing up/everyone is a winner" culture, and I really find that frustrating and quite toxic to see over and over again. Have you ever seen the Michael Haneke movie "The Piano Teacher"? This I think is a movie in a whole other strata to "Whiplash", that deals with exactly the same issues of the torture of artists, and it is a very upsetting film, but a beautiful and a true piece of art, and it's where I would point people who agree with Fletcher's mindset and the "true artists self-destruct" mindset of "Whiplash". I did not feel truly upset by the ending of Whiplash if I am honest, and I think it's because Chazelle wasn't committed to upsetting us with that end. He was posing this "wrong question" and so produced a kind of predetermined answer. So I do have conflicting feelings somewhat the attitude crystallised in Fletcher's "good job" speech, but I would point to "The Piano Teacher" as the response to that mentality. (If you haven't seen "the piano teacher" - I would just warn that there is a graphic scene of sexual assault in it) Anyway, I'm sorry to write so much and rambling.

[@laviergededomremy9670]

+Grey G Dear friend, I deeply thank you for your thorough analysys and I also truly appreciate the clarity and lucidity of your speech. I agree with most of your insightful reflections, and yet esteem your overall judgement as too clement with Mr Chazelle. In Sir Percival's chivalrous saga the knight's redemption comes through the final understanding of which the right question to ask the Fisherman King is. Posing the wrong question means to lead the interlocutor astray towards an ineluctable wrong answer... No matter how you try to, it is impossible to find the right answer to a wrong question. That is the pivot of all sophistic logics and manipulative dialectics: it is not at all a minor or venial issue and my personal sense of discernement tells me the director is absolutely aware about that. Moreover, not only (as you yourself state) he never poses the question: "Is the destruction of the artist necessary to create great art?", but he confuses the audience so much that we can hardly conceive another logical question, perhaps even more crucial, which is the following: "Is there a way the destruction of the artist (as creative conscience) may produce real great art (a creative work)? Actually that is nearly the same as wondering if you can get a fruit by uprooting a plant... If Art a form of expression of the human soul how could that arise from its own corruption and annihilation? We don't find ourselves in front of a sacrifice ethics here, but rather of a paradox. An artist may sacrifice his own time or any form of distraction in order to pursue Art, but never he could sacrifice his own soul, which is the premise itself for the birth of any real kind of Art. Therefore, in the film a false and misleading myth of self-sacrificing is conveyed and a typical "American weltanschauung" one actually, that is to say the morbid, pathetical, perverse, "macho" value of "noble masochism", a means to self-adfirmation by apparent self-denial. If the artist "par excellence" is he who sacrifices the low tendencies of the human inferior nature (the ego) in order to sublimate them in the realm of lyrical intuitions (the soul) so to offer them in a work of "Agape", here we find the triumph of an opposite archetype (which I dared define "Faustian"): he who denies the calling of its own soul and denies human dignity in order to self-adfirm, to obtain some sort of social ransom (dare define by instrumentalising music at this purpose). Music (more precisely drums) becomes some sort of fetish, almost a purpose on itself, beyond Life and Moral (such are the demands of ego): Andrew's relationship to its instrument is in fact onanistic in a way, as the obsessive-compulsive rythmical scenes well underline... "Agape" is replaced by some sort of "perverse" "Eros", and the creative artistic gesture transmutes into some sort of sterile masturbation which deprives the protagonist of all of its vital forces, as we can verify in the very end (the final scene is quite emblematic in representing not a mystical, but a fetishist trance). Chazelle is in my opinion fully aware (and so fully guilty) of proposing and celebrating the advent of some sort of trans-humanist archetype of robot or faustian artist, and he awarely misinterprets the Romantic myth of a connection between Art and Suffering in order to justify the morbidity of its characters. On the contrary, never in the history of Man real Art has been conceived as a mere expression of suffering as such (or we should rather be speaking of "psychic vomit"), in that it has been rather perceived as a lyrical and heroic attempt at transcending the limited human condition and its intrinsic limits and not intended as springing out from, but rather as going beyond suffering (in Chazelle's delirium it is even depicted as a possible cause of suffering itself!). I agree with you about the fact that Art should not be moralist (in that it should be free to deal with any subject), but I reckon it has to be moral though, aiming at producing a fruitful reflection (either cathartic or epiphanic) in regard of the human Nature. As Socrates stated: "if what you want to tell me is neither True nor Good nor even Useful, why tell it to me at all?" This can indeed well apply to the issue of Art, which is nothing but symbolic communication. As for your sociological examination of nowadays American paradigms of thought, I am fully alligned with you. The moral nihilism which individualism and competitivity generated, together with their predatory logics, have demolished not only the nauseating conventional do-gooding middle-class rethoric, but also any valid and consistent ethical system centred around real and solid moral (not moralist) values. Such cultural metamorphosis is also not casual, but I am not going to get into that, as for now. If you understand a little Italien, and if that may be of any interest to you, here is my full review of Chazelle's film. accademiadelpensiero.altervista.org/whiplash-apologia-duna-parabola-faustiana/ As for the rest, deeply thank you for your suggestions... I have not watched the "Piano Teacher" yet, but I actually suspect it would also not deal with my classical, Romantic, orphic conception of Art and the Artist as a searcher for the ultimate Good and the Sublime, closer to ecstasy than to madness. As soon as possible, though, I would well try and watch it, so to give you my honest impressions. In the meanwhile, I wish you merry days and send you greetings from France, Gemma

[@DVZN29]

+La Vierge de Domremy That was an intellectual and very interesting exchange. Thanks for the thoughts!

[@Oly1y]

Miles looks like his jaw has been dragged down