Dagger vs Buckler as an offhand weapon

These two offhand weapons were contemporaries of one another. However, the buckler eventually fell out of fashion in favour of the dagger. This is a look at the reasons why and how we find they compare in different scenarios.

[@brabhamfreaman166]

Brilliant, straightforward, logical and direct analysis. Paired with your other buckler video: very, very informative

[@owensson924]

Great Video! I would also like to add another possible reason on to why the buckler fell out of use, and that is the increase of hand protection on swords. Obviously with the increase of hand protection on swords (like basket hilts, rapier hilts etc.) there was less need for the buckler to be used to protect the sword hand. Although I think you're right in that the primary reasons would still be length of the blade and the increased emphasis of thrusting at that time period.

[@LordBenjaminSalt]

I've had a few amatuer discussions about this, every single person I spoke to, without fail said they'd prefer the dagger. Simply because it's another point. No tactics, style or techniques, just "More Stab Good!" Can't say that reaction surprised me, but still ;)

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Benjamin Salt Lol. Well it's certainly a useful attribute, but when you have a fairly open hilted sword, or are facing someone doing a lot of heavy cutting, you really do appreciate the sturdiness of the buckler and the ability to easily pass off powerful cuts.

[@LordBenjaminSalt]

+Academy of Historical Fencing Yeah, I've always preferred the idea of having a shield to hide behind. What's the use in an extra blade if your hands come off? :P

[@neanderthor66]

+Benjamin Salt More stab IS gooder.

[@willnonya9438]

+Benjamin Salt Demonstrate the punching power of a buckler.

[@MartinGreywolf]

+Will nonya Buckler punches are a bad idea most of the time - you have to get way, way past your opponent's sword to even attempt it, and unless you hit something important, it's much better to go for grappling. That said, it's really easy to accidentally hit someone with it when you try to grapple him.

[@thuglincoln7699]

Some other possible reasons why the switch over to dagger from buckler - Rapiers have very good hand protection which obviates the need for I.33 style buckler usage (guarding of the sword hand). In addition it can be difficult to parry a strong thrust with a buckler when it's simply held in the hand. if your grip is loose, it will "spinning door" the buckler out of the way.

[@MySelfDefenseBlog]

Great information of when to use a dagger vs buckler - thanks

[@macmurfy2jka]

I have to agree. The few times that I have ever played around like this i found that daggers are great for deflecting center mass stabs.

[@DancerVeiled]

Very good points I hadn't considered. Going into this I thought "Well, obviously the buckler, it's more natural and protective defensive weapon", but when you mentioned deception via loss of vision and the wide range of rotational protection a blade gives and advantage agaisnt closing voids, I realized that that was quite correct. In any case, I would still prefer a buckler in most cases as I don't trust the poor hand protection on most companion daggers.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Thanks. But as for weapon preference, what is better really comes down to what you are having to face. A buckler is better against a weapon that cuts a lot, a dagger is better against a weapon that thrusts a lot, and each are comparatively weak against the other. It is therefore no surprise at all that through most of the 16th century the buckler dominated, until rapiers became more common than sideswords and backswords, and then the dagger took over. So what I would prefer would be down to the weapons used, more what your opponents are likely to have rather than what you are carrying.

[@SwordSal]

I also feel that a difference came from technological skill development. The buckler is very simple to make being a shaped piece of essentially flat steel (in its simplest form). While daggers existed throughout the time mentioned the metallurgy to create strong guards and pinions that can absorb a blow developed later.

[@tjahajasuryadinata4432]

I'm pretty sure plate armor and gauntlet is vastly more advanced than some handguards on a dagger, stipulating that a medieval blacksmith cant make a dagger with better hand protection because the metallugy is not there is nonsensical

[@Quodge]

10:37 Brilliant there's the answer. Carry all three and throw the buckler as a frisbee!

[@Telleryn]

Works for captain America

[@schwarzerritter5724]

But the dagger gives you another pommel you could throw.

[@BeetleBuns]

then you and the enemy become best friends over a rousing game of catch! Both come out as winners

[@SaftonYT]

Great video, very informative and it answered a question I've been wondering about for a while.

[@OzymandiasRex]

Very well explained. One more point: give a buckler to someone who has never fought with weapons and they can ward off a lot of blows on instinct.

[@brandonfarfan1978]

Thanks for this informative vid. I learned alot.

[@tsafa]

It is also worth mentioning that the Buckler also offered protection against polearms in earlier periods. That's also part of the reason why I believe the Buckler and sword are held together. With the Hilt braced against the inside of the Buckler , it is effectively a two-handed sword capable of stopping more powerful cuts.

[@laskey84]

Good video friend. One thing is I know from experience is that the buckler will do heavy damage with minimal effort if used as an impact weapon, the idea that it wont do anything substantial other then an attack to the head and hand is completely incorrect. Even with a gambason the buckler can break rib bones, crack sternums and snap collar bones. This is not life threatening but I'v seen it end fights in grudge matches where the players had vendetta's. Thank you for all your work, I love your video's friend and keep training hard.

[@MartinGreywolf]

I'd say that dagger is better for thrust interception than a buckler because it uses wrist action, as opposed to elbow action needed with the buckler. More importantly, I wonder how sword and dagger compares to sword and buckler when facing a spear. While former may not have met it all that often, bucklers were popular for not-frontline soldiers. Both would loose as a rule, the question is, which one would loose less. Spear is an interesting weapon in this, after all - it has thrust-centrism of a rapier combined with the forcefulness of an arming sword.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+MartinGreywolf Neither is ideal for going against a spear, but we have found dagger to be slightly better than buckler. Though overall, open offhand is better than either against spear. However if you were to take this into a military setting then armour would have to be taken into account, and that changes things further.

[@XCritonX]

Buckler with a spike! Best of both worlds? But a little hard to carry.

[@Telleryn]

Or spikes/sharpened edge along the rim

[@Gatitasecsii]

Spikes on the edge and center, that would make a good bladecatcher.

[@ArtietheArchon]

belt-and-suspenders approach, dagger and buckler in the off-hand

[@theultimatetactician1712]

I prefer the caestus, just because the parry frames are much better with it.

[@gunblade7610]

I know there is the Talhoeffer buckler and supposedly Marozzo's Targa is geared to catch thrusts, but has there been any mods to standard bucklers that you have seen to help them be more useful to trap blades. I'm thinking about the Indian Madu? Though I suspect they are used different in those cases so maybe having hooks on the buckler face may be better?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

There isn't really an equivelent to the Madu with European bucklers no. But there are all sorts of devices found on European bucklers which are designed to trap and snare blades in different sorts of ways. Sometimes you will see what look like spikes protroding from the centre of the boss on some, most people think this is for offence, and sometimes it can be, but in fact many are not sharp, they are for catching blades. Our use of the lantern shield has shown just how useful this forward facing blade can be. Some of them were also bulbous to further catch blades better. Sime bucklers had hooks, some had floating rings elevated above the main flat area of the buckler, meaning the points of swords could go into these rings and become trapped. Concave bucklers are also intended to ensnare the points of swords too. So all sorts of trapping devices which help to stop the opponents blade slide off of decieve your buckler. Sadly most of them are too dangerous for us to use in training today.

[@robertpatter5509]

Did anyone use the spadroon and buckler or smallsword and buckler? I know both blades have hand protection in the clam shell guard. Did anyone use dagger and buckler as a self defense system?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Not that we know of on both fronts. The buckler saw rapid decline in the late 16th century, and smallswords and spadroons originated in the mid to late 17th. The dagger became far more common as the offhand weapon on choice. I am sure someone somwhere used dagger and buckler at some stage out of neccesity, but it certainly wasn't a norm.

[@edi9892]

All great points and very concise. However, one thing was missing: how do you carry a buckler and draw it. Or rather, how do you prevent the buckler from constantly falling down? Personally, I would have probably gone for a sword and dagger combination, even in the Middle Ages, as you'd pretty much carry a dagger anyway and it makes a lot of sense for self-defense and potentially as a tool. Bucklers aren't convenient to carry. If I need more of a weapon, I'd rather take a bigger sword or even a polearm, if I can... If I can't, wearing chain mail underneath civilian clothing would be probably more important to me than wearing a buckler...

[@ashresearcher]

Great video!

[@joegillian314]

Does the length of the rapier make it easy to simple stab around the buckler?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Not really, unless the opponent has a shorter sword.

[@ceomyr]

How was a buckler worn on a person? How quickly could one equip it and ready against an attack? A dagger can be worn very easily, it would probably make less noise bouncing about, and drawing a dagger is very quick with very little chance of going wrong. What good is a buckler if you fail to draw it in time against a sudden attack?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Pretty much everyone who ever wore a buckler also wore a decent size knife or dagger which could be drawn against a sudden attack, so that isn't quite a fair comparison. This is more looking at a comparison of how a large companion (to a sword) dagger compares to a buckler. Companion daggers would be slow to draw just as a buckler would be. As for how bucklers were worn, various methods as described in our video below, and so the speed they could be deployed varied. kzbin.info/www/bejne/m36zmqClfLKCg5Y

[@sunbin64]

Modern day - Metal kitchen pot lid and knife. :-)

[@sunbin64]

There's a reason table knives are blunt.

[@realSOnoYa]

How about dagger and buckler hoho! And 2 armguards with spikes yeah!

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

I'm in the early stages of learning military sabre (I have briefly foil fenced in the past, however) and, while I'm practicing guard/parry positions & cuts, I can't help but wonder (partly due to also having a boxing background were I boxed "fencer"/right-hand dominant southpaw) what if I had a offhand dagger or even smallsword purely for the occasional thrust in sync with the sabre parrying the opponent's blade? Nothing overly complicated with the offhand, just down out the way as the dominant hand sabre fence like normal then spring into action only if an opportunity presents itself like a strong cross behind a barrage of jabs & hooks. Never really gave it much legitimate thought as daggers/capes/etc tend to be shown more with rapiers than sabre, but was a random thought I had as a boxer who dabbles in fencing, lol

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

You should never be in distance that a dagger should be able to strike in a sabre fight. That said, there are people who close and confined spaces can encourage it. Say you were fighting on board a ship I would say that would be excellent yes. In more open ground, the offhand can be more useful (to control musket with bayonet, or partisan, lance, etc)

[@Cysubtor_8vb]

True. When I originally fantasized the concept it was with a smallsword and other long thrusting options yet I quickly deemed it to be an impractical attempt to mimic the old infantry lines with their shield/spear combo, yet with a more aggressive sabre filling the shield role (boxer concept of using jabs as a shield). Seeing this vid and with the dagger being so small/unobtrusive, I figured why not revisit the idea as a surprise attack forgetting that that small size also makes it too short, lol Oh well, makes me more interested in checking out the rapier/dagger combo at some point, however, though, I definitely want to continue sabre for now.

[@miketurley8272]

and whees the application tutorials Vid ?

[@joeyvanhaperen7715]

Why diden't they combine the 2 have a buckler with 2 pointy steelbars sticking out the handel this way you can use the shield part against cuts and the pointy ends against trusts. You still have the rebustness of the shield to deal with cuts and the rotional ark to dislocate trusts. Sow why diden't they it wouldn't be that much heavyer right?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

There are some bucklers that have spikes, or blades, and even up down spikes or blades, though not usually in Europe. Weight can be a factor, but I would say the most important thing is size and convenience. Whether in civilian or military life, the buckler was intended to be worn on the belt or over the shoulder. It is supposed to be small and convenient. If you start adding protrusions like that it becomes difficult to wear and carry. See our lantern shield for one such oddity that does combine these features though.

[@joeyvanhaperen7715]

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing hahahaha ah the lantern shield I know that one what were the thinking. I get having licht in a shield to see at night but the way they did is any thing but usefull. 😅 if you add knifes or spikes to a buckler you could always sheed them for easyer carying tho, or even use them to hang them on your beld with. Like a modern beld cutter type of hook, just make sure it only has a sharp point not a sharp edge that way it's even more easy to carry sow that's not really a great excuus. 😅 you can even make a belt clip like thing on the back of the spike. Yes it might dangle a bit, but it's a lot more secure then the way the did it before. 🤣 they used to hang bucklers from a hook that was conected to a beld right. Why not just conect the hook to the buckler directly in the form of a spike with a clip on the back. This way the only thing that is worse about it is that it is a bit heavyer, if I was a civilian in that time I would choose to do that, even if it would be a bit more expansieve.

[@MH-yp6wg]

As I understand it, when the buckler was popular, you would lead with your off-hand and use crossing steps. This way, the angular area the buckler covered was higher and you could also use it to protect your sword-hand. The dagger may initially have copied this, but things eventually shifted to trailing-dagger style where you led with the sword and the footwork changed accordingly. When leading with the sword, a buckler would lose some of it advantages (angular coverage and coverage of your sword hand), while the dagger has, as was said in this video, the advantage of a second offensive stabbing weapon at very close range. And even the dagger lost popularity when two-tempo sword actions became more of a thing and defense and offense became increasingly two seperate actions, so you would defend with the sword.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

I'd say there is a stage missing there in development - The rising dominance of the single sword. In the mid 16th century the massive increase in use of single sword, as well as an ever increasing emphasis on point work had already lead to a very advanced sword guard. I would say more than anything it was this drive towards solo single handed sword use that led to the change. The significant increase in hand protection of sword hilts may well have either encouraged this change, or come about because of it. Why the dagger then lost popularity is an interesting one, though overall I;d say the greatest factor was probably fashion and convenience, with a desire to wear less cumbersome and finer weapons. Really there are a lot more dpuble time actions in the golden age of rapier than people realize, and they were already quite content with using those long rapiers solo. I think the dagger was likely just seen as overkill and a burden to daily wear.

[@MH-yp6wg]

​@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Were there any styles where the buckler was predominantly used "trailing" behind (with the sword side forward)? And were there styles where you predominantly led with the dagger, the sword side trailing behind? But yes, I would say fashion and conveniance are an important factor, yes. But it seems to me there's more to it: Having the dagger ready and into the action changes your stance slightly. You may present more of your body profile, and also it may affect footwork, too. Also, the off-hand can be used for balancing (as is done in modern fencing as well), so even such things may be a factor.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Predominately buckler trailing, no, though many sources show a mix of the two, such as some Bolognese sources like Marozzo and laider the rapeir source Giganti. Miller shows broadsword and buckler with them about balanced. It could certainly be argued that a dagger leading stance was preferred by some sources like Fabris and dall’Agocchie. Angelo in the 18th century shows us both with smallsword and dagger, and Miller in the same era showing roughly even but with the dagger in front of the broadsword. The dagger can change the stance, it doesn't have to. We can look to Capo Ferro for this as the wide and narrow stances show how you can stay very sword shoulder forward, or square up the body to bring the dagger more into play in guard. Even Angelo was still showing much the same in the 18thc. I wouldn't even say it;s a balance thing anymore with the offhand, that was the argument a long time ago, but many sport fencers merely dangle that arm now and let it go where it wants, and years of sabre and also Meyer rapier/dussack with the offhand locked to the side has show it doesn't really do much in that regard. One thing that can be said about driving the offhand back is you can get the shoulders more in line for maximum reach in a lunge. From the perspective of late rapiers and smallsword, having a dagger is simply an advantage. You don't have to square up and lose reach and present more of a target, you can merely use it to cover against doubles, counters and protect against those who close/disarm. It doesn't have to lose you reach. I really think fashion and utility are the primary reasons for the daggers decline. It would be seen as a bit barbaric to wear one and in many ways to use one also. It's also a massive pain to wear. Not all weapon changes and evolutions are to make a better weapon for combat, as much as that would make sense in our eyes today.

[@MH-yp6wg]

​@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing Interestingly, in one of the sketches on your wall, it shows a leading dagger stance. Well at least in your newer videos I can see it, not sure if it is in this video (maybe you changed them or it is just not in camera). I think I remember that this picture was in a manual which talked about the optimal length of the sword and that it should be so long that it's point should still be on the level of your dagger's when you're in a stance like this, but I may be mistaken (maybe it was a buckler other than a dagger), it's been a long time. Anyhow, it is very interesting to hear that you think the dagger would be an advantage after all, even when paired with those lighter two-tempo action swords and even considering stance/balance. Really dangerous weapon up close. I have to admit that I'm more interested in daggers than in swords. There are already SO MANY videos about swords, so it is nice to see someone talking about such off-hand weapons specifically. More videos about this topic are very much appreciated. I'm curious what you say about the japanese two-sword-style (ni-to/ni-ten). I saw it was used in some of your videos (using two shinai). I always was under the impression that those two weapons (katana and wakizashi) are not really optimized for doing this (while it still can be done, of course). What is your opinion?

[@robotpalaeoxylologist]

would it be useful to combine an axe or a blunt e.g. mace type weapon with this kind of dagger?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

A small axe like we did in the video below, yes. As for a mace, well that's really for armoured combat, which is a completely different scenario, and you'd likely be better off with a shield or open offhand to control the opponent and their weapon. kzbin.info/www/bejne/pJbWaGmegshjlaM

[@psammiad]

"Cut-work" and "point-work" are rather sanitised terms for some grisly business - slashing and stabbing the flesh of your opponent. Given that swords were worn as fashion accessories in the period even by people who'd never actually fight, a sword and dagger were just easier to wear with the clothing of the period since they hung down. You wouldn't want to wear a bulky buckler every day, which is like carrying a big dinner plate.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

An advantage I see with the dagger is that you can put it in your belt and draw it fast. Where would you put your buckler when you are not using it?

[@korg20000bc]

Hang it over your sword hilt at your belt- which is seen in MANY historical images from the times.

[@schwarzerritter5724]

MAkes sense.

[@onemadhungrynomad]

if you have a main gauche with a basket hilt isn't that most of the protection of a buckler + reach and extra offensive capability?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+onemadhungrynomad It helps against cuts to the hand, but still doesn't provide anywhere near as much coverage against cuts. It protects the direct snipe to the hand, but cannot protect against many other cuts, and can be deceived as easily as a normal dagger as well. I have got a large basket dagger, like you would call an alehouse dagger. However in moving house I have misplaced it somewhere. When I find it there will be some videos with it.

[@onemadhungrynomad]

that would be cool. i don't actively fence recently but i did for 10 years during school and collage, primarily rapier and saber. i personally always thought a basket hilted main gauche was an excellent offhand. i have seen some with a very large flared bell which i imagine is even better than the traditional basket hilt.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

There is no doubt a dagger with a good basket or shell is an excellent offhand weapon, it just isn't as good as a buckler when dealing with swords or opponents that use a lot of cuts.

[@onemadhungrynomad]

even if the hand is essentially fully enclosed? struggling to find a picture of what i am looking for. s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/eb/80/c8/eb80c89cac03b5d711f5e07eea61898b.jpg similar to that but with a wider swept guard and more of a basket around. is the buckler still better then? i mean that protects from most cuts non?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Yep even then, as what you are doing with the blade doesn't change, you just have additional hand protection, but no more protection to the forearm and other target zones.

[@ME-hm7zm]

Interesting insight. I had wondered why the buckler had gone away, with my own idea being thrusts more easily slipped off of a buckler than a dagger. Now the question: If we know why dagger came into favor, what caused it to fall out? From what I can tell, it falls out of use before the age of the rapier comes to a close. In Paul Wagner's "Masters of Defense", I believe he claims the use of the dagger became associated with thugs, and thus it was abandoned because nobody with a sword wanted to be seen that way. I don't know if I believe that, but it seems at least plausible.

[@iacopoiacoponi1983]

+Michael Eversberg II I think one of the reasons can be that the lenght of the rapier blade became shorter. when the game is very thsust centric and the blade is shorter the dagger can get in the way

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Michael Eversberg II The buckler fell from favour in the latter days of the rapier indeed, somewhere in the middle to late 17th century depending on region. One of the core changes were to the rapier itself, becoming ever lighter and smaller, this has two effects - one it can deceive a dagger more easily, and two, fashion. As the rapier became smaller and lighter it moved into an age when fashion also became more fitted and more delicate. I believe it would be considered quite uncouth to carry a large dagger in such clothing. Lacopo may also be onto something with it's association with thugs. It was afterall the famous era of the highwayman. Lastly, the use and carry of pistols may have further seen to it's demise. As this was a time when flintlocks were becoming common, making pistols cheaper, more reliable and smaller than they had been before.

[@iacopoiacoponi1983]

Wasn't mine the association with thugs ;) btw i disagree with you when you say that the rapier fell from favour in the second half of the xvii sec. I think at least in italy rapiers were still used without dagger up until the end of the xviii sec, with hilts that for fashion were similar to smallswords but still were handled "fingering the ring"- as Matt Easton says- with shorter blades (but still longer than smallswords)

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Iacopo Iacoponi Rapier looking swords did go on into the 18th century, but they became so small and light, essentially a transitional sword, often what people would call a transitional rapier.

[@iacopoiacoponi1983]

Academy of Historical Fencing of course it depends on how you make the difference. In my interpretation the essential difference from rapier to smallsword is the way you grab the hilt; and the main difference from what we call "spada da terreno" in italian (don't know the english for it!) is the shape of the cup, more flat in the later sword. Anyway in italian the trnsation of the word 'rapier' itself is not clear ... ;)

[@matthewbaugh2898]

Something I've wondered are the relative virtues of Roman vs Renaissance sword/shield pairings. In Greek and Roman times you have a very large shield paired with a short sword, and in the 15th century a very small shield and long sword. Maybe sword and buckler is better for a duel and big shield and gladius is better for fighting in formation?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Matthew Baugh I think it comes down to a number of factors. For a start, shield users in the renaissance were often used in light and loose order as skirmish troops, in support of blocked formations. They were fast, agile shock troops. Troops with smaller shields were used in just this way in antiquity, whether in the form of bucklers, or small shields like the rotella. Also, the buckler was popular as a secondary weapon because it could easily be carried on the belt with a sword while you carry something like a halberd, bow etc in your hands. A buckler isn't better for a duel, but it is much easier to carry in daily life. Just like a assault/battle rifle is better in war than a pistol, but a pistol is eminently more practical in most other occasions.

[@bullphrogva1804]

Is there any accounts of Cutlass or Sabers being used with daggers in the renaissance. Seems kinda logical to go that route if Rapier+dagger was so popular daring the time frame.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+J C (Bullfrog) In northern Europe the sabre was only just really in early stages during the renaissance really. Some basket hilted sabres were becoming popular in military applications, like the tessack (Not always curved, but usually). But this would be carried as a sidearm, so less likely to be used with a dagger. Also, the dagger is just not as well suited to combat against heavy cutting blades. Go to Eastern Europe and beyond and sabres were popular in the period, but still there seems little use of the dagger with the sabre, but plenty with buckler/shield.

[@100RAmen]

very nice point made Nick. I will add in the context today's society, a buckler is just a cute little shield, while a dagger is the evilest and most aggressive weapon. and I bet one can have a cutely painted buckler on his person of in his bag with out feeling too much restrain about go into different places.

[@100RAmen]

+100RAmen and as we all know, shields are just for protection ;D

[@peggystaples4621]

What the spirit is showing me is that a sword and shield is for warfare & intercession and the buckler is your every day battle weapon.

[@NoFuture396]

This may sound unusual, but what about dagger and buckler at the same time (in the offhand)? I think in India they practice a tulwar + small shield + dagger in the icepick grip.

[@NoFuture396]

+Gerben van Straaten whoa, that thing existed? Incredible. It is not what I meant though. Imagine the dagger being held in the offhand in the icepick grip, and the buckler strapped on the wrist-forearm. The style's purpose is mostly defensive I would think, making it easier to catch a blade trying to slip under the buckler in a quick rotation - still nowhere near the defensive capacity of a larger shield, but every little bit helps.

[@Nopp3]

The buckler is typically held extended as he mentioned in the video. it would be easy to strike the blade, forcing your arm to rotate, possibly throwing your guard off or losing the dagger. I'm not saying its necessarily bad, but I'm not convinced before i see it.

[@dvklaveren]

How common were so-called parrying shields? I've seen images of them floating around the internet and in books like Eye Witness.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Alderick van Klaveren You mean the type of buckler with a blade or horn section protruding from each side? In Europe that sort of thing was rare, but I have seen plenty of references to their use in other parts of the world.

[@dvklaveren]

Academy of Historical Fencing Yes, those. I have also seen a variation with a 7-pointed star configuration, no buckler and what looks to be a gauntlet or some other way to attach it to your wrist.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Alderick van Klaveren Yes there certainly are some wacky and wonderful devices. Check out the lantern shield. One of the best examples is in the rustkammer in Vienna, and will come up on google images. Bucklers with a spike or hook in the centre of the boss seem to have been relatively common in Europe, as well as a number of raised bars to catch blade, but anything that protrudes from the rim seems to have been quite rare.

[@ChamorruWarrior]

My opinion, screw the sword and use a buckler and dagger together.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+ChamorruWarrior Go try it, and make a video :-) Seriously it is a combination which was not unheard of, I even saw a style recently of wakizashi and buckler, but it is at a massive disadvantage compared to the sword and buckler.

[@ChamorruWarrior]

Academy of Historical Fencing I'm primarily a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu practitioner. All I gotta do is get past the sword ;) hehe

[@harjutapa]

+ChamorruWarrior "all I gotta do" Yeah. That's "all." There's a reason why people didn't charge into battle unarmed.

[@ChamorruWarrior]

Anthony Ridgway But I'm never unarmed, I have Jiu Jitsu.

[@harjutapa]

Right. martial arts fanboy. Got it.

[@Gwoendolei]

That's totally counter intuitive to me. The whole point, to me, of an off hand weapon is that I don't have to focus on it but can use it opportunistically, blocking requires less focus than parrying, you cannot block a thrust with a dagger. You can parry with it, but again, I prefer to focus on my primary weapon. Meanwhile, I can block a cut with a dagger. Still, what you've said makes sense.

[@ThisOldHat]

+Crioris Kisara I think you are confused about the difference between a block and a parry; in that you seem to think there is a difference. When you look at any manual on fighting with a shield for instance, the first thing that is explained is that you do not use the shield as a static barrier (unless you are using a massive roman style scutum/tower shield). When using a sword with companion weapon/shield you absolutely have to use both items in concert with one another at all times, you can't ignore how you position your shield to focus more on the sword, if you do your opponent will bypass your shield easily and kill you. The shield is not a force field.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Noah Weisbrod No, the buckler in this video is plenty strong enough to withstand a full power cut from near enough any type of sword, and not buckle, nor do damage to the arm wielding it.

[@Gwoendolei]

Thisold Hatte Parry would mean, to me, primarily deflecting/redirecting the blow while block would mean primarily catching/stopping the blow.

[@ThisOldHat]

Crioris Kisara OK, so generally "blocking" as you define it is far less common a feature than "parrying" in historical fencing. Generally a "Stop-block" as its known is too static an act and leaves you vulnerable to feints and counters/winding cuts. The whole point of fencing is to first establish control over an opponent's weapon, so simply stopping one cut or thrust, and then letting the opponent recover their blade for another attack is generally an inadequate system of fighting. Of course that isn't to say it would never happen, but in a systematic approach stop-blocks are not ideal, so they don't get addressed; also they are fairly simple/instinctive so don't generally need any special instruction or technique. and since training with most shields involves programming your body to instinctively do whats ideal and not necessarily whats "natural" with your body, most shield fencing training involves pulling your body away from using stop-blocks.

[@Gwoendolei]

Thisold Hatte Although I cannot argue any points on historical fencing manuals, my idea would be to riposte as I am blocking, their weapon is engaged with my shield giving me a brief advantage (not to mention the advantage of not having died) for engaging them. The ideal achieved here is maximizing my focus with the primary weapon. I wonder if I've explained myself poorly, do you think I mean I my shield squared, turning it perpendicular to a thrust so that the point goes straight in and presumably bounces or jars? That isn't really what I mean. Any attempt I make at blocking with a shield against a thrust would include turning their blade aside, the "catch" is that I don't dispose of or rebuff their energy, I allow them to waste the energy safely on the shield thereby wasting their time and not assisting in their recovery. The "block" is that I am simply positioning and allowing what happens to happen as opposed to swatting or flourishing, in other words there is much less activity to control.

[@Psiberzerker]

Okay, with a Buckler, you want to move in, and out of Reach, while with the dagger, you give up some Defense in return for close quarters Offense. You can stab. Yes, there were spikey bucklers, but it's difficult to put the point exactly where you want it. So, with a Dagger you want to get close. Especially against a Buckler, which is stronger in and out of Reach. And also against Longsword. Longswords also became popular (Including Estocs) because of advanced Armor. Against a Longsword, I'd rather have a Dagger to close in, and fight them to fight Halfswords. (Which they generally did against Armor) With a Buckler, you lose the Reach fight moving in, and out of Reach, because the LS has more, so can hit you as you try to close, with a buckler. So really, my choice between Buckler, or Dagger depends on what I plan to be up against. If it's a longsword, or a buckler, I'd rather use a dagger. Personally, because I'd rather get in close than wear eachother out moving in, and out of Reach. That's the way I like to fight, up close with a Dagger, that's where my Strength is. Pick which one you're more comfortable with, if you're good at Footwork (And have room) then go with the Buckler.

[@Psiberzerker]

When I would rather have a Buckler, or preferably a Shield is against a heavy headded weapon like polearm, mace, ax, or falchion. These strike slow, but Hard. The extra defense is better, and the Buckler is a lot faster than an ax. (For instance) It gets deflected, and may even slap your forearm (Or a simple leather Bracer, which I highly recommend in Any swordfight.) I'd much rather take that hit. So, polax, warhammer, mace, halberd... Not Spear, I'd rather have a dagger against that, but as he pointed out, they're small enough you can carry both with a sword.

[@themodernmusketeer877]

Another point to consider is that a buckler wouldn’t be as easy to carry as hilts became more complex. You couldn’t slip it over the handle of a swept hilt rapier

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

That is only one way of carrying a buckler though. They were also worn on the belt with a loop or hook on the belt. Some bucklers had their own hook to go onto a belt like some pistols did. There was another method of having a strap or rope going from pommel to buckler and it then being slung over the shoulder.

[@themodernmusketeer877]

@@AcademyofHistoricalFencing I did not know about all the different ways of carrying a buckler

[@doctorevil8398]

Question can you use both as a main weapon

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Yes, though the buckler isn't well suited to it. As an improvised weapon it will work of course. The dagger was commonly used as a primary weapon, particularly in self defence scenarios.

[@stuartgreenfield9245]

you mention the decline of the buckler in the sixteeth and seventeeth centuary and this is largly true. but outside civilian defense the buckler had its own reniassiance in military term in the form of spanish and itailian infanty support, ship castle and jungle fighting and as anti pike troops. primarly because a buckler allwos you to take an agreesive line in close quarters.

[@xenophon5354]

Great video as always. As a backsword fencer, is there much that you have to change in techs and footwork when you've picked up a buckler or dagger for the off hand?

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Tom Rundell Not really. You can if you choose to just carry on as normal as if using single sabre/backsword, right foot forward exclusively. A slight twist of the upperbody can useful if you want to bring the buckler further forward, or going left foot forward if you like. It can be utilised purely as an extra coverage of the line, and protection of the afterblow, or it can be used more aggressively to target attacks solely to free up your blade. Some basic training in rapier and dagger will tell you everything you need to know about using backsword with dagger or buckler.

[@xenophon5354]

Academy of Historical Fencing Thanks.

[@midshipman8654]

+Academy of Historical Fencing Great Video! I was just wondering if you know anything about the Swiss Saber; There is literally no comprehensive videos about it on youtube and there is not that much information on the internet as a whole. I find the idea of a hand and a half sword that is somewhere between a longsword and a saber quite interesting.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+Jackson Almodobar Yep, I love the swiss sabre. I just haven't gotten around to buying one yet. I have seen lots on trips to museums in the UK and Switzerland though (maybe other places too). They belong to the family of 16th century swords that became incredibly popular. In this period a great many longswords started having complex hilts fitted and are the most common longswords found in museums today. There are also one handed swiss sabres, and these very much fit into the dussack/tessack family. Curved two handed swords were of course nothing new to Europe, with the Kriegsmesser being a prime example. Back to longsword forms. The sad news it that there are no treatise I know of that show the use of these complex hilted longswords in the 16th century, despite the fact that they were clearly common. I think the style of using them however is rather obvious. They would be used as longsword, but the more advanced guards as the extra hand protection affords.

[@midshipman8654]

Academy of Historical Fencing That's really interesting! Thanks for taking the time to inform me more about it. On the topic of how they were used though, wasn't the longsword held further back because of its limited hand protection? With the swiss saber's more developed guard I would think that the techniques used with it would be moderately different and maybe have less conservative guard positions. Also I know that at least with one handed swords, the absence or presence of a well protective handguard greatly changes how it is used. Would that, at least to a lesser extent, also be true of two handed swords? It also seems odd that an apparently higher class moderately common weapon does not have any surviving treatises on it's use: / (PS. Sorry for the late reply, I was in the boonies without internet for a while)

[@miketurley8272]

combine the 2 make the 2 weapons 1 fasen them or forge them together.a "BucDag" thanx

[@RevRaptor898]

Is there a reason that basket hilted daggers were not more common? one would imagine they would be an extremely versatile off hand weapon.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Ease of wear. Even the dagger in this video is at the larger end of the typical kind that people wore in everyday life. A weapon worn for daily use will spend 99% of its time being worn, and not being used. Extra weight and extra bulk get in the way. In this regard, it is just the same reason that he buckler was commonly carried in civilian use, and the shield was not. It may seem like a small thing, but an extra 300 grams of weight and the extra mass that comes with it is a real nuisance to wear. That said, the alehouse dagger enjoyed some popularity in Britain, which is basically a basket dagger, and the Spanish salle dagger was also very popular in Spain and abroad.

[@TaoistSwordsman]

I like all your content, it's just too darned quiet lol

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

This video is five years old, I've been using a lapel mic now for a few years and the volumes are greatly boosted.

[@labradoodleandpalz]

Why not build more hand protection on the dagger? Some sort of relaxing basket type of deal in addition to the big quillons. I wouldn't even bother balancing out the weight with a heavier blade, let the point of balance toward the hilt, who cares, it's not a weapon that needs to deliver strong cuts. It seems strange that the rapier gets all the elaborate hand protection but not the parrying dagger.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+labradoodleandpalz Because a dagger spends 99% of its time being worn, not being used. Same reason for the lack of protection on a great many swords. Bigger the hilt, the more uncomfortable it is to wear on an everyday basis. In fact the dagger I show here has larger quillions and sidering than was average.

[@labradoodleandpalz]

+Academy of Historical Fencing That's a good point. But, if you are going to be carrying one weapon with a swept hilt and one with only quillons, I would still argue that the dagger deserves the better protection and the rapier should be left with simple quillons. I've never used a parrying dagger so I might be mistaken, but it seems that although more parrying might be done with the rapier, the daggers parry's would be closer to the user's hand. So the situation where a blade might be in danger of cutting a hand would occur more often on the parrying dagger than the rapier.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+labradoodleandpalz There was a fashion trend for simple cruciform hilt rapiers, it lasted about five years as people soon realised how useless they were, that was in the very early 17th century. As for risk to the offhand. The dagger is primarily used for defending against thrusts, and not cuts, and therefore is not at risk in the same way. A simple cruciform guard and side ring also offers a lot more protection than you might realise. In fact when used solo, the offhand is used for open hand parries very successfully, the dagger just allows the same thing to be done more safely still. There are also other considerations, like what can you draw when the time comes? You might have time only to draw your sword, and therefore it needs to be fully capable of operating solo. You may also only have time to draw your dagger at close range, and the larger the hilt on the dagger, the harder it will be to quickly bring into play, To give you an idea of just how safe it is, I have probably been cut on the offhand when using the dagger maybe only three times in ten years of rapier fencing.

[@Ivanofkoshinkaisokanryu]

why not both ?

[@schwarzerritter5724]

You mean the dagger as a backup in case you loose the buckler or something?

[@nsk1911]

Next time, don't forget to equip the Hornet Ring

[@owenthomas9863]

I also think in civilian life where it all "kicks off" like a riot or a gang fight. You probably want the buckler because people will be throwing bricks, bottles , chairs ect

[@theclocktower3258]

The answer to the problem? Why not both!? Carry a rapier, buckler, and dagger on you. If someone comes at you with a saber, buckler it is. Someone comes at you with a rapier, dagger in the off-hand! And really it can't be all that much more cumbersome. Granted the dagger is kind of big, it's no small knife, but it wouldn't weigh you down all that much.

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

Nothing stopping you doing that, but the weight and bulk would be an issue. We are generally talking about a time when people were carrying these as daily wear, and that would add a sizeable amount to what you wear. Certainly day to day it would get tiresome.

[@theclocktower3258]

I already carry a sword on me daily pretty much wherever I go, couldn't be too much of an issue. Except for getting in cars, can't get in them very easily with a blade strapped to your hip haha xD

[@reachwbar]

You mention the use of buckler or dagger with sabre, in what ways would one use the pair? I primarily practice later military sabre (though by no means am I very accomplished), and one of the distinct advantages of sabre from what I've seen is the ability to parry almost worry free due to the developed hand protection and riposte in the following tempo, in addition to the extended reach given to the sword arm by not having your off hand and shoulder presented towards your opponent. From what I've seen of sword/rapier and dagger/buckler is that the off hand is more forward (again, I'm no expert). What advantages, apart from the augmented defense, is gained by using a dagger/buckler with a developed hilt sword? I thank you in advance for any insight on the subject, and thank you for bringing such quality content!

[@AcademyofHistoricalFencing]

+SixSixSeventy Using a buckler or dagger with a complex/developed hilt provides most of the advantages it does to an open one, just minus the hand protection to the lead hand. To understand the two it is best to look to renaissance sidesword and buckler/dagger treatise, as they will have most in common with using the sabre with an offhand weapon, protection levels being comparable. The advantages are the ability to separate attack and defence, allocated one weapon to one task. That means you can strike in single time, whereas many such attacks were normally have to be made in double time, (tempo), because of the necessity for parry-riposte. It also provides excellent protection against the afterblow. The British did not commonly use sabre and buckler, but there are plenty of references of British officers in India and elsewhere purchasing and practicing/using local manufactured bucklers. Also, buckler and sabre was clearly popular in many parts of the middle east and wider area.

[@damienhudson8028]

Two ads was excessive

[@theShepardsPath]

great discussion. i just posted a video on my channel of me and my opponent sparring with messers and a offhand buckler dagger combo. i found a plate of a fight between a man and 2 other opponents. he was facing off with his messer to the front opponent who was also wielding a messer and buckler, while simultaneously defending his rear from a second opponent who is wielding a dagger only. so how do you fell about using a dagger in your offhand with the buckler? have you tried it? maybe you could stop by my channel and give a few pointers, tips and tricks to help me grow my viewers.

[@raperh5552]

Imagine using a Swordbreaker and a Buckler. You could trap someone's rapier and bash them in the face with your buckler.