Can a Rapier Defeat Mail Armor? - Let's Test and Find Out!

[@Ranstone]

This feels like one of the cornerstone videos of the sword community which should have gotten made 10 years ago, but somehow slipped past the radar.

[@MrSinthan]

Really good observation.

[@reaemishi2278]

Actually, I find the sword community has slept on Rapiers really hard. I remember how much people used to hate on me talking about their cuts before the recent spree of rapier cutting videos. Before last year people were treating rapiers like overlong small swords.

[@exantiuse497]

Definitely not I'm not an expert, just a casual hobbyist, but to me the armor used in the video looks low quality. The ring density is rather low and I don't think the rings are riveted. The fact he manages to strike a dagger all the way to the hilt through the armor indicates the armor isn't very strong. You could probably find something like that on a less well-off soldier who couldn't afford high-quality mail but a knight or a professional man at arms would've worn much more protective mail. In my opinion you can't draw any sort of conclusions from this video. To paraphrase Metatron in one of his videos, it's like shooting an SUV with a handgun to try to determine what happened if you shot a tank with a bazooka. The video should be taken as entertainment, not science

[@sonhantesonhador9035]

The rings are riveted​@@exantiuse497

[@SamStone77-v9n]

​@@exantiuse497I'm guessing it is riveted. Ive seen people stab unriveted armor stuff just punches right through with little effort. Also the dagger in this video isn't a random dagger its a rondel its specifically designed for this purpose of attacking gaps in armor.

[@tcuegonbear]

You have to love the brutal simplicity of the rondel. Visually they are elegant and and quintessential 'knightly,' but when it comes to actual use they're basically just beefy/well crafted prison shanks. Seeing one worn on the hip brings to mind the sounds of Renaissance chamber music, but when one comes out of the sheath Doom music starts playing.

[@scottmacgregor3444]

Interesting tidbit. When you grip the rondel with a gauntlet on, the round discs acting as the guard and buttcap are meant to cover the openings at the top and bottom. With a well fitted mitten gauntlet, you wind up with almost zero gaps when holding the dagger. It also makes for a very secure locked grip.

[@Wastelandman7000]

Rip and tear man, rip and tear.

[@rpgpuffer361]

I'm glad to see that you're conducting these tests on a soft ''humanlike'' target and not on a piece of hardwood like we sometimes see, having a hard unmovable surface to press against would surely change the result.

[@GameTimeWhy]

Agreed. People tend to be soft and squishy and movable.

[@greycatturtle7132]

Yes

[@RachDarastrix2]

@@GameTimeWhy Its a wonder they survive.

[@GameTimeWhy]

@@RachDarastrix2 disgusting piles of corruptible flesh. Glad i gave mine up in glory of the omnisia

[@iantaakalla8180]

Maybe it is the fact that they give that makes them likely to survive?

[@Groddon]

I admire your sacrifice of mail and blades in the performing of these tests.

[@norbertszekeres867]

Blades looks fine , wrost case you need to re sharpen those

[@Mad_Dog_of_the_Regime]

@@norbertszekeres867 Reshaping blade is not an easy process, if you just hammer it back without heating it red-hot first it'll just snap and crumb.

[@Candlemancer]

​@@Mad_Dog_of_the_Regimehe said sharpen, not shape. Sharpening a sword is not difficult

[@killerkraut9179]

Mail can be repaired easely!

[@dan_mer]

What is the point of using a 17th century weapon against a 12th century armor?

[@scottmacgregor3444]

It was a good idea. I suspect that a small sword, which apparently tended to be even stiffer and even less focused on cuts than a rapier, would do better.

[@Skallagrim]

Yes, some types of smallsword would do quite well, I imagine.

[@viktorthevictor6240]

beeg dagger

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

@@Skallagrim You basically explained why the estoc or tuck was developed. If what something long, stiff and narrow, that reliably pierce mail, is best to be edgeless.

[@blvalverde]

Yeah, some smallswords are estocs with rapierlike hilts

[@scottmacgregor3444]

Yes, I expect the main difficulty with a small sword would be getting a good grip on the type of handle they had.

[@runakovacs4759]

Eastern European life, only 1 dollar but I want to emphasize this is the type of content I love the most! I quite like the 3 rapiers presented as well. Good display of variety (the early rapier is best)

[@Skallagrim]

Thanks!

[@TheBinaryHappiness]

@@Skallagrim yet you didn't press like, wow

[@Poohze01]

As an old fencing teacher I winced every time your blade bent downwards in a thrust! 😅 And I find it interesting that the best penetration (nods to Matt Easton) seemed to happen when your blade bent upwards, as I was taught and then taught my students. Oh, and on mail being worn under clothing, Benvenuto Cellini, the 16thC Italian master sculptor and goldsmith, was a duelist and a quarrelsome ratbag and recounts in his diary wearing a mail shirt under his clothing in case he encountered one of his many enemies in the street and had to fight a spontaneous duel.

[@Snarkknight5]

Just commenting to express my appreciation for the term "quarrelsome ratbag."

[@kuesdav]

" quarrelsome ratbag" I absolutely love that description. Thanks for that!

[@andrewk.5575]

As a classical fencer, I feel your pain.

[@Leif3GHP]

One semester of fencing in college and I noticed this right away too! Haha.

[@stressmanager8102]

I’ve been watching a couple of fencing videos and I’ve always wondered why they emphasise on bending the blade upward rather than downward. Is it a tradition thing or actual practicality?

[@youremakingprogress144]

I love how the foam has the impression of the rings in it after the thrust didn't go through the mail. Imagine coming home with ring-shaped bruises in a three-inch radius on your chest.

[@lscibor]

There's some 13th or 14th century poem that clearly mentions outlines of rings being painted with blood on the aketon, once the wearer took off his mail. Mentioned in kind of bragging way, obviously, like hard day at work. Maybe I will be able to dig it up.

[@Ezekiel_Allium]

​@@lscibor damn, þe olde poems go kinda hard when they want

[@robo5013]

Yeah even LARPers that wear chain go home with chain bruises on their bodies, mostly because they don't use proper padding.

[@irrelevantfish1978]

@@robo5013 Certainly helps explain why gambesons were so commonly worn under mail, doesn't it?

[@marcogenovesi8570]

imagine coming home horizontal and with a stab wound because you didn't wear mail

[@mburstei]

The rapier vs mail incident happened in a novel. In the 1898 book "When Knighthood Was In Flower", Charles Brandon fights Sir Adam Judson, a duelist nicknamed the "Walking Death" who has supposedly killed 75 men in duels. Charles rapier cuts away part of Adam's clothing, revealing the mail. Being superior in skill, Charles cuts the older man down. The rest of the book deals with his romance with Mary Tudor. The duel itself is set in 1509. I can't find any evidence this duel existed outside of the novel. The framing of the novel is that of it being written as a "historical" account from the diaries of the authors (Edwin Caskoden) ancestors. However "Edwin Caskoden" is a pen name. I think the whole story is fake, unless someone is aware of something else.

[@Knoloaify]

A rapier duel in 1509 England seems quite anachronistic to me considering rapiers came into being in the latter half of the 16th century in Italy, and rapier duels really became popular all over Europe during the 17th century.

[@eazy8579]

It’s definitely a fake story

[@socipathicgaming5914]

@@Knoloaify - Well considering that the novel was written in 1898, when the internet and the ease of access to historical records was not a thing, I think we can give the author a pass on this one.

[@UnitSe7en]

@@socipathicgaming5914 He wasn't making disdain at the author for historical inaccuracy. Keep your knickers on.

[@socipathicgaming5914]

@@UnitSe7en - and how do you know? And how do you know he is a he? Now, like you, I did assume but, unlike you, my assumption is based on the fact that most of the posters WOULD be making disdain to the author. Unless, you are suxing his dix in which case my apology and why is he having his bytch speak from him?

[@kieran2221]

The hideous nature of what the Rondel dagger would do to a person, with the contrast of 'a more chivalrous age' was *chef's kiss'. Love me a bit of irony!

[@TrojanManSCP]

@6:00 "Shiv-alry" is 11/10 level pun. This is why I'm here.

[@ezrafaulk3076]

You just demonstrated *two* things in this video Skall; 1, you demonstrated that just because a weapon isn't *designed* for armored combat doesn't mean it *can't* work for it (I'd imagine a rapier would be excellent at slipping through the gaps in plate armor too); 2, you demonstrated that just because armor *covers* a section of the body *doesn't* mean that that part of the body's protected against the threat it might face, which under the wrong circumstances, can actually be a huge *detriment* . PS: it's quite an ironic that the guy who wore mail under his clothes to *save* himself from being assassinated ended up being assassinated in *spite* of it. PPS: Looking at that depiction of it, I think Ringmail is supposed to be an *exaggerated* for of *butted* mail; that's what it looks like to me.

[@nextcaesargaming5469]

Every time I see ringmail in fantasy, I almost always take it as a clue that whatever culture using it must have almost no usage of thrusting weapons or techniques in their society. What other scenarios could it possibly make sense?

[@ezrafaulk3076]

@@nextcaesargaming5469 that's a good thought too; & like I said, when you see it, it honestly looks like an exaggerated form of butted mail, which'd probably be the *easiest* to pierce with a thrusting weapon/technique anyway.

[@PJDAltamirus0425]

Eh, the a rapier isn’t set up for such percise probing. Small area ( the weak points) against something highly mobile (knight) with something very long would probably mean a lot of missed thrusts

[@ezrafaulk3076]

@@PJDAltamirus0425 the rapier was designed for *unarmored* duels, something in which both combatants would be a lot *more* mobile in than someone wearing *any* degree of armor; besides, Skallagrim's really just showing us what'd happen if someone *did* manage to get a solid hit with a rapier against a mail wearing opponent.

[@spaceblockb5284]

@@nextcaesargaming5469 I'n my D&D campagin, ringmail is mostly used by Sivione, who lack metal to afford proper chain or plate most of the time.

[@MartinGreywolf]

That "unless you are a cheater" is a pretty big unless - and it doesn't really matter if *you* are the cheater, what matters is if your opponent cheats. And we even have a treatise that talks about this in... some detail. The culprit here is Domingo Luis Godinho, who has entire chapters in his book on dirty tricks, that include, but are not limited to: having a pocket full of sand, taking God's name in vain to poke out your opponent's eyes, stabbing the other guy before the duel actually starts, having a *second* pocket of sand and so on. He has a section explicitly talking about hidden (therefore most likely chain mail) armor starting at 1-100 and, well, I'll just let him speak: "All the people that will enter in a fight or quarrel have to take note that they have an obligation to experience the primary blows if the opponent is armored. When it is known, the opponent may test the sword, and if he consents to it, commit a nails-up thrust to the face, where the hidden armor never reaches" And, what is really, really relevant to this video, he has a section where he talks about how to thrust through the chest armor in 1-105: "Armed nails-down, if perhaps you have been mistreated by the opponent, it seems good to retreat by stepping, and you risk losing your sword, give a nails-up throwing thrust to the chest. When you give it armed nails-down like this, withdraw the arm toward the rear so that the force takes air, and turning the hand nails-up, throw the sword to the chest. If you want to experience this thrust, throw it at a wall with a practice sword, and you will see the force that it brings, which you will be able to give to the opponent." So, Godinho thinks you should pull your arm all the way to the back in second and then thrust it all the way forward into quarta.

[@blarghchan]

"having a pocket full of sand" Pocket sand. My god.

[@nobodyyouknow6998]

@@blarghchan Don't forget the SECOND pocket of sand. Lol

[@Chicky_Lumps]

This treatise sounds like a something a cheater would reas. 🧐

[@hoi-polloi1863]

Taking the Lord's name in vain? I can understand cheating in a duel, but there's a LINE, man.

[@luxiam9148]

So, from what I've gathered, to defeat mail with a rapier you need, overall, a thicker base to add more power in your thrust and thus pierce the mail. Or you could have an extremeley thin blade and try your luck at piercing in-between the rings. Also, thank you for this video. This subject has been in my head for quite some time now and this video helped me clear some questions I had.

[@bozoforce]

Rondel dagger; a truly SHIVElous implement.

[@rorydonaldson2794]

Awesome video. Love the idea of rapier vs mail, I always wondered if it would just bypass the armor. Testing the rondel was great too, during the video I wondered if it would too

[@storyspren]

That lunge vs sidestep comparison is fascinating!! I associate lunges with duels, and maybe it's because that's an unarmored setting? This is definitely gonna make it into my repertoire of details for ttrpg character technique descriptions. I'd love to see other people test that as well, to see if it's due to individual differences in technique or if it's something core to these techniques themselves. Just going off intuition, it seems like it would be about the techniques themselves, but experimentation would show for sure what it is.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

"There's fencing and there's fighting my Prince. You need to learn them both"

[@senounatsuru6453]

I suspect an english tuck or french estoc would also work extremely well. The triangular crossection and exclusive focus on thrusting would likely result in a lot of broken rings.

[@MrBottlecapBill]

That's what they were made for. No doubt.

[@boaragile82]

Polish koncerz is, to wit, of similar purpose, too.

[@Caffeinated-Bladesmith]

LK Chen is the gift that keeps on giving.

[@In_Purple_Clad]

I love these kind of tests, please do more! I'm a D&D/ Pathfinder player & occasional GM. Seeing this kind of experimental archaeology, seeing what different types of thrust with different types of sword will do to genuine real armour is simply amazing. Really helps me describe a character's fighting style/ helps me flavour why a certain attack roll isn't high enough and doesn't beat the armour. I can easily imagine a character doing what you did at first: using the 'obvious' Rapier technique for the 1st few strikes because that's what he knows & it's served him well in all his previous '1v1 gentlemen's duels'. But now he's an adventurer caught up in a more brutal scuffle with bandits and ruffians, and when he rolls high on the dice it's because he's figured out he has to adapt his fighting style and just 'get in there' when they're wearing chainmail. Brilliant stuff/ This is a gold mine of content and I keep coming back for more. 😁

[@FortuneFavoursTheBold]

Excellent tests! Important data. In my review of the LK Chen Saxony rapier, I demonstrated that it can potentially take an opponent's leg cleanly off by testing cutting on a ballistic gel thigh analog with wooden dowel in the center, the same target the Albion Maximilian cut well against but failed to go all the way through. That Saxony rapier certainly has cutting in mind when it was created back in the late 16th century. The tip speed, the edge geometry and the blade broadness (comparing to more thrust-centric rapiers) help. Now with these thrusting tests you have done, we know balanced cut-and-thrust rapiers were a thing back then, but of course the narrow-bladed Spanish cut-hilt rapiers are still better at penetration (though they were not primarily used to combat opponents in mail any more), especially if you only needed to go through flesh and clothing. Many of the narrow-bladed rapiers are quite thick (8-11mm at the base) to be more rigid, but I think at least some of the cup-hilt rapiers were deliberately made thinner (6-8mm at the base) to be lighter, some of them weigh even just around 2 lbs even though the blade length is still around 40". I have tested thrusting with swords and daggers of different tip geometries on pork shoulder under gambeson and maille armor before, and it's significantly difficult to get good penetration because of the bounciness of the large chunk of flesh when covered with solid textile defenses and steel riveted maille. Even thrust-centric longswords like Oakeshott type XVa and XVII didn't go very far, but rondel daggers absolutely destroyed maille and then went thrust everything like butter. Without the maille, I found even tough textile protection like gambeson offers very little resistance against even thinner and more flexible tips on kriegsmesser, let alone rigid and narrow longsword tips. I think your setup provides more rigidity in the target simulating a ribcage and that aids with penetration than maille over gambeson over a 8-lb pork shoulder. And I absolutely agree that thrusting with a passing step offers far more skeletal structure to aid with penetration than a thrust with lunge, but thrusting with a passing step just expose yourself too much comparing to lunge thrusts. So it's a trade-off.

[@tanegurnick5071]

Your review was awesome brother. Have you handled the town guard, here , as well? If so, what would you prefer.

[@FortuneFavoursTheBold]

@@tanegurnick5071 Thank you! I haven't handled the Townguard sword, and I am pretty sure I'm gonna get it along with the cup-hilt and 7-ring-hilt rapiers by LK Chen.

[@crimsonfox87fluxule62]

This is why it's practical and sometimes a necessity to carry more than one proper sidearm, I have this narrative fiction that I'm working on where there is this individual who is trying to extricate himself from society between the 12th and 15th centuries, for the sake of narrative fidelity I've made him a lot longer lived so he could experience more of these things, not quite an immortal, but working on a mathematical perfection where if you were born in this time he would be able to experience that time still, but he would still be within fighting age. Nevertheless, since he might encounter all sorts of people, he has all sorts of tools, he has assortment of swords and it isn't so much as to be out of place, but it is definitely more than average, I have gotten it down to five main arms, two pole arms, and at least three sidearms, a cut and thrust type rapier, a two-handed messer type blade, and a hand and a half smaller sword very similar to skalgarim's "perfect self-defense blade" that never leaves him no matter what, and maybe three or four miscellaneous others like a buckler, two different types of daggers, and some type of bludgeon or trenching. It's not perfect but this research is perfect.

[@FortuneFavoursTheBold]

@@crimsonfox87fluxule62 I think it's practical for someone going on a campaign or a journey to carry a primary weapon that requires two hands. A sidearm that's easy to carry and likely a one-handed weapon at most a hand-and-a-half proportioned one, and a dagger that's either a rondel dagger or a bollock dagger which tends to be shorter and lighter than rondel daggers. He can also store one or more backup weapons on his horse or baggage train.

[@crimsonfox87fluxule62]

@@FortuneFavoursTheBold I figure, it's meant to be half realistic and half fantastical, I mean it's going to be about as realistic as someone training with a rapier to Target the gaps and armor, because that kind of duelist wouldn't really travel in this situation because they would be skilled enough to stay anywhere they'd want they wouldn't need to travel, but my character is one of those early vagabond types where like reacher said in the show, a long time ago there were a group of people that decided to stay by the campfire in another group of people who couldn't help but stay away from the campfire, he said he was one of those people and my character is one of those individuals too. But unlike reacher, he doesn't have the entirety of the world's history to draw martial arts from and be able to get any kind of weapon he wants or have the privilege of not needing a weapon, reacher doesn't have to deal with wild animals or lands where there's constant danger, and my character only knows what is physically possible to know, the best is maybe some martial arts from a merchant from China, maybe he even took a trip on the silk road at least once or twice in his life, maybe he might be more educated than the average person because of his diligence to learn which back then you could have every excuse in the world not to because it was hard just to wake up without sepsis or as a corpse in the morning. If you even made it past the age of six or 20 without getting drafted killed or dying of disease. There is beauty in the misery, and I think the best and worst thing you could do back in those days with stay in a civilization. It's kind of a known fact that if you're running your entire life, not very often do you get tired. That's just my point.

[@0num4]

I really enjoy these sorts of tests. Been watching them since well before you left BC. Tests such as these, even though they're not 100% analogous to a human combatant wearing era-appropriate gear, do give us valuable insight into the evolution of arms and armor. Thanks, Skall!

[@totoru4ever]

This was awesome man. Perfectly structured and executed video. You still make this fresh after years of watching your videos by raising your own test standards simply by getting better at it.

[@Skallagrim]

Thanks!

[@shinomori69]

Very interesting. As a long time RPG nerd I instantly thought about how to translate these results to weapon types. Came to the conclusion that it can be done but it might not be worth it.

[@Weberkooks]

I've had the same thought process, It would be difficult to do it in terms of stats. You'd kinda need a good combat physics system to preserve the meaningful difference between weapons

[@shinomori69]

@@Weberkooks Pathfinder 1 made an attempt. But it was nicknamed Mathfinder for a reason. Armor as DR and called shots made things real enough.

[@justadummy8076]

@@shinomori69Yh at some point you have to trade “realism” for fun because at the end of the day it’s a game & meant to be enjoyable (unless of course you & your group all enjoy doing maths for ages)

[@brycemcewen6146]

There where some rules in second edition DnD edition to give certain weapons minnues to hit certain types of armour

[@gdragonlord749]

I am making my own system for this. I added chopping damage for axes and some swords (katana as an example). Each armor provides resistance to specific damage types and plate is immune to slashing (sliding scale of no resistance, resistance, immune). Size of the weapon modifies this so a large longsword against a medium creature in plate armor deals half damage (resistance). Other than that, armored is piecemeal and you can target arms, legs, torso, head, tail, and wings (other limbs also quality). Armor also applies damage reduction (DR) instead of being harder to hit. For this test, I would add a rule to specific daggers that allow it to bypass all but one DR of chainmail. I also wonder if I should change it so that the sliding scale above determines if armor DR is applied and if so, how much instead.

[@endrankluvsda4loko172]

Thank you so much! I'm a writer and in one book the 2 main characters have a rapier fight. So videos like this are so important, at least to me. I hope you have more videos about rapier dueling in the near future. Thank you for all the great content over the years. Lol and fantastic shirt.

[@theloafabread4341]

Yes dude this is the type of content that makes your channel awesome. Been subbed for longer than I can remember. Don’t ever give up, friend. Btw this was recommended straight away so the algorithm is loving it

[@koboldexpiditions]

Glad to see you are doing better and seem to be back to your stride. I know you had a low point for a bit and it makes my day better to see you healthier and with that spark of interest in what you present again.

[@franciscofunari2343]

Finally someone tested this, I waited years to see those results thanks Skall

[@j.f.fisher5318]

Your destructive testing videos are some of the best info on weapons vs armor out there. Thank you for the work you do!

[@AndrewMilesMurphy]

"Katana slices through entire Earth one-handed" Fixed that for you

[@aneasteregg8171]

Man, I hate when I nudge my Katana slightly and accidentally cause nuclear fission from splitting every atom it touches.

[@andregon4366]

But does it slice a pommel thrown at you?

[@zombiewarrior225]

@@andregon4366 that would cause a tear in space and time, creating a black hole ending the universe as we know it

[@drzander3378]

@@zombiewarrior225 And every creature in the universe would be destroyed... except Chuck Norris of course 😝

[@bradnunn9127]

Katana literally translates 2hand

[@erikvarela2045]

Really interesting that the technique had so much influence on the effectiveness. I was expecting the rapiers to fare better than they did at first, but then the difference became clear. Also, I laughed when you decided to try the rondel dagger--that poor mail was doomed the second it came out!

[@IamZeus1100]

I never realized how flexible some rapiers were . Also didn’t know they could go three mail. Awesome video ! Keep stabbin and slashin !

[@MyFaithShines]

The question is - were real historical rapiers as flexible as these reproductions?

[@kalnaren]

@@MyFaithShines Generally no, as historical rapiers weren't made out of spring steel. Having said that some did have a decent amount of flex depending on the blade profile. Ones designed primarily for thrusting (no sharp edges) were stiffer, whereas those that had sharp edges and thus a thinner blade had more flex. So it really depends on the specific sword. Matt Easton has a neat vid on rapier flexibility.

[@oakbridge4268]

This video right here is why I'm a subscriber. Excellent format of real life testing followed by historical content, always keeping in mind to include explanations for why something was done or why something works. Superb!

[@UnitSe7en]

My first Skall video in many years and I see Skall's been internally re-assigned from dashing man-at-arms to overworked professor of magicks.

[@reaperwithnoname]

Practical testing and an example of hidden mail in history. Fascinating.

[@Paledomain]

while lunging with flexible sideswords ala escrima, it is usually preferred to lunge slightly upwards, so that the sword does not wobble but consistently bend downwards, helps with control and sword maintenance as well!

[@TheWarmotor]

Nice to see videos like this again :) of course there may have been more of these recently and the algorithm sucks, but I was stoked to see this in my feed and the video did not disappoint! Thank you, Skalla, for all that voodoo that you do!

[@Thebb123]

Let’s goo! Also skall I would appreciate some more vlog/rant stuff about the food addiction stuff. I’m struggling with the same things and watching the last video you made on that spurred me to start tracking my calories again and redouble My efforts.

[@Skallagrim]

That belongs more on my other channel: kzbin.info/door/M7qhOYtW23jASfxTxCYvvg

[@Riceball01]

Don't just count calories, I'd also pay attention to what you eat. Certain foods can be better for you than others regardless of the calorie count. I'd do some research into the various diets (as in food types) that might be good for you. I'd definitely recommend looking into a keto diet, that did wonders for my wife and the great thing about it is that it's very tasty and you won't feel like you're depriving yourself. Also, intermittent fasting can be helpful for losing weight as well, but that does take a bit more commitment and practice than a keto diet does.

[@necroseus]

Keto is good but it requires a lot of scrupulence, as you can do it wrong and get quite ill. The dietary reformatting that worked really well for me is to eliminate bread, rice, and all other sources of "refined sugar." ... and potatoes lol. Unlike keto, your body still primarily uses carbohydrates for energy, you just get them from less addictive and dense sources. Fruits are a great source of non refined carbs, as well as glycemic vegetables like carrots. There are tons of delicious foods you can eat, too :). I still enjoy pizza pretty much every week, but I just get it on a cauliflower crust which has WAY less carbs than regular stuff. You can get protein chips for that crunchy, salty itch and you can have things like spinach based tortillas for tacos or burritos. For pasta, I greatly enjoy a low carb brand called P2 Eat Smart. Good shit! In grocery stores for other general stuff, the sugar free options for diabetics as well as keto options at restaurants allow you to comfortably maintain the change in lifestyle, too. This helps a lot with food addiction because eating foods that are dense with carbohydrates stimulates craving in the brain. Not only does this dietary overhaul reduce fattening nutrient intake, but it also reduces cravings. Good luck!

[@greenman4508]

It’s often sad to me that so many the people with low self esteem are just obviously the great hearted people. I don’t need to know this guy personally to see clearly he’s a cool dude. Don’t get discouraged man, it’s your personality we’re here for first, blade’s second. 🙏🏻keep em coming

[@ixph]

This seems like a very backhanded compliment to me. Just because somebody is humble doesn't necessarily mean they have low self esteem. And speak for yourself. I value the high effort and well researched content just as much as Skall's personality.

[@ilzee_vk]

Thank you for this video, it's been something I wanted to see tested for years. In dungeons and dragons (and other RPGs) rapier is very often used against armor and I wondered how it would do in reality

[@pelonpeloriko9395]

3:18 just want to clarify that that is not a “tizona”, the tizona was the sword that Rodrigo Diaz De Vivar used, he was a famous Spanish knight from the midle ages.

[@1thevm1]

That needle sword reminds me a lot of the Filament Sword from Arcanum, which is also incredibly thin and slim, has extremely strong crits, but also increases the chance of critical failure, so you can accidentally break it or poke your eye out.

[@apolloisnotashirt]

It feels so satisfying when a blade manages to go through. 🤩

[@CreepyMF]

Entertaining, educational and wicked cool rapiers. This is the good stuff, great video.

[@Enyavar1]

Thanks for the testing video. Multiple tests, different weapons, and discovering a technique. Neat and to the point.

[@thefatefulforce8887]

Great test Skal. I guess daggers as weapons for rogues (assassins) in D&D kind of makes sense 😅

[@brianhowe201]

Oh yeah, daggers are great weapons! Assuming you can get within arms reach...

[@freshhands9461]

Cinquedea and Rondel would be my choice of arms as a mean alley-thug. And a ballista of course, to get the most out of backtabs :D

[@KenoticMuse]

This is the reason why I think rapier fell of favor as a battlefield weapon, and was replaced with more cut centric weapons like sabers. The bottom line is that it can't do much damage via thrusts once light armor is involved, and it definitely cannot cut as well as a saber. I think rapier was largely a civilian dueling sword toward the later period once it was replaced by sabers, where civilians don't wear much armor during duels and it's usually first blood, so you don't actually have to deliver a lethal blow.

[@sevenproxies4255]

There seems to be an element of randomness here. Will the blade flex? Or will it stay straight? I guess practice will help ensuring the optimal result. But at the same time, the fact that you seem to need to thrust the blade at a perfect angle so as not cause it to flex seriously ramps up the difficulty in fighting a mail wearing opponent. So overall the mail ads a serious degree of protection.

[@morgan4870]

Great video Skall. This is the content I love. Very informative!

[@Genshion]

Love these types of tests. You and Shadiversity are the only sword content creators i really care to watch anymore

[@wofuljac]

Yeah shame they don't like each other because of stupid politics. Love to see them collab.

[@grahamhill676]

​@wofuljac I think you're thinking of Matt Easton and Shad. I don't think Skallagrim cares

[@mayhemmarie1174]

⁠@@grahamhill676 considering Skall is married to one of the kind of peoples Shad hates the existence of I would imagine he'd care

[@grahamhill676]

@@mayhemmarie1174 What does shad have the existence of? I haven't heard him say anything of the sort.

[@CM-di1oz]

I gotta say your really the best sword-tuber around one of the few that does tests and stuff. I mean there was shad, but we don't talk about him anymore. but you really test out all the myths and questions people have and dont just say "well your wrong" and not back it up. also I have that same F13 shirt from spencers.

[@bensul9979]

matt easton is like the elrond of sword knowledge xD

[@BusinessVulture]

Great video! Love to see these interesting tests again. Keep up the good work.

[@Verbalaesthet]

Very cool idea. That was interesting.

[@stuflames4769]

I'm sure this wasn't your cheapest video to make, but it was a very strong and worthy one.

[@Scarlet_Soul]

Stabby stabby

[@worknprogress3848]

Great video as a kid rapiers were my favorite weapon. I started focusing more on katanas and other fun weapons as I got older because they’re awesome too, I’m glad to see these amazing swords getting more love

[@hilbertfaust1954]

"facial scars are acceptable, but losing my eyesight is not." me who just watched a video on mensur: *guy pointing at TV meme*

[@dr05guitar]

Cool test, Skall! always bringing it with the ideas. Your dedication and thoroughness does not go unnoticed!

[@dlatrexswords]

Absolutely awesome stuff Skall! You are the GOAT when it comes to this sort of putting the blades to work testing, and I’m super happy to see some more stabbing experimentation! I’ve been trying to come up with a systematic way to evaluate the thrusting ability for swords, with some limited success showing generalizability to real scenario application, but so far I’m only testing against soft targets. This stuff against mail is super awesome! Great cross section of swords, showcasing of possible variables, and analysis as always! Cheers!

[@Ironskin]

What a beautiful demonstration! One can get a good feeling of how much drive the stabbing needs and how easy or not such an attack could be foreseen by the target. As you said, the actual specifics of the rings matter, especially the quality of the rivet connection. Thumbs up!

[@Sarnahanfi]

didn't think the dagger was more brutal than a sword!

[@Rj-pw7zs]

I expected it to do well but not that well. Imagine something like an ice pick. It would likely break through with no effort.

[@Aliyah_666]

Well knights carried a dagger for a reason. Its a good last ditch weapon, simple to use and easy to find gaps in armor.

[@robertrenbris2334]

Thumbs up for the music choice. There is nothing more 1800-century sounding than hapsichord.

[@DzinkyDzink]

Hidden "maille" is probably could be translated as "hidden armour" as in they didn't make much diffention between armour types.

[@Glimmlampe1982]

Not too sure about that. For one mail is the better option for hidden armor, because it behaves like cloth, while wearing a plate is more obvious ie less hidden. Second at the time there was plate around they did differentiate. In German laws about what people had to own they clearly differentiated between mail and different levels of plate. Mail being the low level entry armor (even though it was more expensive than a breastplate. Probably used mail was more common I guess), then breastplate, "Krebs" and full plate (what exactly a Krebs, crab, was isn't too sure, probably also changed meaning, but at least sometimes it was breastplate with arm harness)

[@brianhowe201]

The only place Ive heard "maille" act as a stand in for the word "armor" is certain games like D&D. In most other contexts, Ive only heard maille refer to chainmail, as in french, 'maille' literally translates as 'mesh'. So it wouldn't make a lot of sense for it to refer to other armor types

[@Glimmlampe1982]

@@brianhowe201 thats more the other way around, games pretty much always have stuff like "chainmail" "platemail" "banded mail" etc.

[@brianhowe201]

@@Glimmlampe1982 In my opinion their use of "mail" in those contexts is using the term wrongly, and is based off of the term's use by D&D, who started the misconception. Also, things like studded leather and ring mail (the studs and rings on their own make for a really poor addition to hardened leather because they can simply be stabbed between.. Things like jack chains on the arms and legs are a better addition,) And then there's also the notable lack of brigandine or coat of plate style armor, although one could argue that scale and banded/splint armor fills that niche. To be fair, I have a lot of nitpicky issues with the gear in D&D, but I understand it's a game, and not always historical. (Nor is it always desirable to be completely realistic or historical, I admit.)

[@Glimmlampe1982]

@@brianhowe201 ah,I think I just misread your post and basically agree to your point. The ring mail thing is a Victorian thing afaik, misinterpretation of medieval pictures. In the tv series Catweazle there's an episode with some reenactment and at least one of them wears such a ring mail thing. And I think the show predates D&D by 3 or 4 years

[@marcusaurelius5149]

1:33 - I slowed it down to 0.25 speed and then stopped at 1:37. I saw a slightly damaged ring, but not enough to break. Later on you get behind the blade more with your thrust and you skewer the armored stand (6:28). So it was definitely a matter of technique. You did a great job working through that in this video but there was a tiny bit of evidence in the beginning that this could happen. 5:35 - The dagger test reminded me of MCT (Marine Combat Training). During the knife training, an instructor using a Kbar pinned a Kevlar vest to a pole with regular effort (he was absolutely jacked and could do a dozen one-armed chin ups so that's not me). The vest was closed so it went through both sides. He was making a point that the armor will only protect against a knife attack if you're moving and they can't get a straight hit on you.

[@shozanhanma2709]

*CRITICAL!!!* SKALL does x3 damage! 💯

[@defroes6792]

A question I can't believe I've never pondered, seems like a really obvious thing to wonder about - great video! Just some technique notes from a fencer that may help in other lunging thrust oriented tests like this: 1. Try to hit with the arm fully extended and the hand (slightly) above the point of impact. This will help the blade bend upwards rather than downwards - which is less likely to damage the weapon and your elbow/shoulder. It also (as you allude to) improves the likelihood of penetrating the target by increasing the rigidity of the sword and arm. 2. As an extension to point 1, try to land the point prior to the front foot contacting the ground in the lunge. Most of the force in a lunging thrust comes from the momentum of the body rather than the arm action itself, and as soon as the front foot lands the available momentum decreases significantly (as you're slowing down). 3. Try to hold the pommel as tightly into the wrist as possible. Using a pronated grip (rather than supinated) will help with this, as the grip will be trying to force its way through your forearm rather than deflecting away from it. Be careful to avoid internal rotation of the shoulder when doing this, however, as that will risk injury to your elbow and shoulder. The best cues I can think of are to 'screw' your shoulder blade towards your spine (which will naturally supinate your grip), then rotate at the wrist to induce the pronation. 4. Try to keep the torso as upright and side-on as possible. Being upright will help keep the line of the shoulder and hand above the point, and being side-on will reduce the leverage pushing back on you when you hit (as well as presenting a smaller target, should the stand decide to fight back :P). 5. Lastly, try attacking from slightly further away. Especially when the goal is testing whether or not something will penetrate (as opposed to running a person through completely). Being too close will increase the shock of the hit - which disproportionately favours whichever side is more rigid (in this case, probably the armour stand). A hit from further away reduces the shock loading, and shifts the bias towards whichever side has greater weight and momentum (you and the sword). Additionally, if practical, consider raising the target height such that it is roughly aligned with your own chest - so that when in a lunge (a lower overall body position), the target is slightly above or in line with your shoulder. If that's not practical and you have to do a low target hit, try starting with the forearm parallel to the ground and 'raising' the arm into the extended position. This will change the motion of the arm from a 'thrust' to an extension (or even starting with the arm fully extended). This does reduce the 'power' in the strike, but that is mostly coming from the momentum in the body anyway, and the reduction will be inconsequential. Hopefully this makes sense and is somewhat helpful. Even if they don't improve the likelihood of penetrating the target, employing these techniques should help reduce the wear and tear on both your body and weapons from lunging thrust attacks. While the passing thrust does have the advantage of increased power (due to the additional torque from the hips and the arm being better positioned for applying force), you do sacrifice range and speed (which increases the likelihood of a successful counter or parry-riposte). It also involves advancing the body ahead of the blade, which also carries risks. Different attacks for different purposes. In a large-scale CQC melee, the disadvantages of the passing-thrust are largely offset by the environment and typical proximity to your target. In an open-field 1v1 duel, the speed and range of the lunge reduce your opponents options for countering.

[@jeanladoire4141]

thats a nice topic for a video

[@johnniewalker33]

Great testing as always, me personaly always refer to your channel for these kinda tests. Keep it up.

[@LuxisAlukard]

Yeah, science!

[@guntertorfs6486]

Your videos, are always pleasant : you ask the right questions ( a lot of them not too obvious - well tought out , without ignoring the necessary , obvious ones ) brought in a pleasant tone and style. Willing to draw conclusions without being too conclusive about them. Open to corrections ( including your own -often fed by progressive insight ) Very pleasant indeed. A little un-North American to be honest.

[@allengordon6929]

People in period did hide mail and brigandine in their clothes.

[@michaelbraun9999]

1:44 "Facial scars are acceptable, but losing my eyesight is not" As a Mensur fencer I salute you!

[@CMBlessing81]

Watching the blades, I think the flex probably helps some of them penetrate. They store energy in the flex. When your hand can't be pushed very far backward, most of that energy is released forward.

[@Umbra_Nocturnus]

I think you got it the wrong way around. You need a stiff blade to focus the energy of your thrust into the target and break through. The blades only flex once the tip gets caught in the rings and then your thrust is basically over. Unless you did end up breaking a ring and the blade slides in as it straightens afterwards, which would require your target to still be pushing back against you though.

[@CMBlessing81]

@@Umbra_Nocturnus Yes. That's what I was assuming. The initial thrust creates a crack and the spring action forces it apart. Of course the target is still pushing back. It's not an unsupported piece of paper.

[@Umbra_Nocturnus]

@@CMBlessing81 By the time the blade has to flex, the stiff blade would already be inside or through your target though, which would be very much preferable. A sentient opponent would of course try to step back or dodge to the side as you attempt to pierce them. The initial thrust has to go through, any sort of spring action just softens your blow because you're putting your energy into bending the blade and by that one law of physics, the spring can't return more force than you put in. If you've watched Skall's vid you're probably familiar with "edge alignment" for cutting. The same idea applies to thrusts, you want your rapier to move straight forward, not sideways.

[@CMBlessing81]

Just describing what I'm seeing in some of the slow motion footage, and what Skall talked about feeling as one of the blades penetrated. I figured it might be working similarly to an automatic center punch. If it doesn't actually work that way, that's fine. That's how it looked on a few of the thrusts though.

[@Umbra_Nocturnus]

@@CMBlessing81 I mean, you're definitely right, the swords do that. I just figure going straight through is much preferable.

[@GameTimeWhy]

This was a really cool experiment! Looking forward to seeing more on this setup

[@BradYaeger]

The amount of time and effort to make the mail must have been incredible . It stopped a lot more than I had imagined it would .

[@freshhands9461]

This may sound kind of weird, but there is something deeply satisfying in seeing a blade punch through. Also deeply unnerving to see it bend that way 😅

[@alexanderwinterspear3650]

This was a really cool video. When you lunge, if you make a concerted effort to move the blade first and then fall into the lunge you'll get more force delivered directly. If you see the blade flex upwards instead of downwards that is the sign of a more structured lunge. Smallsword gang Smallsword gang

[@Yea___]

Your videos are perfect for cool and breezy weekend mornings with a mug of coffee on the front porch

[@jessejohnson8365]

Damn!! That dagger is awsome! Great advertising for its quality and look! I instantly wanted the 🗡 dagger, as well as the last two swords! I do not even use swords or know much about them! They just sang to my soul!!!

[@LC-th3mi]

I guess what this also shows is that just as edge alignment is important for cutting, so is point alignment for thrusting. If the direction of force isn't exactly along the same axis as the blade, it will likely bend and thus not penetrate as well. Great video!

[@catpelt298]

I first saw shads video on the how well rapiers can cut and was somewhat surprised, so seeing this is awesome love the content. :)

[@TheAnimeAtheist]

Literally was just asking the question the other day, you read my mind man!

[@konverzny]

This was educational and it will alter the course of my D&D campaigns. Thank you.

[@ingetamna]

A good, classic skallagrim video with great, simple content.

[@curtisthornsberry4236]

On the second attempt I think the reason it would go through with your passing step was because the edge was aligned with your arm. Meaning the leverage was along said edge, as opposed to levering the flat. Less energy spent flexing the blade means stabier technique. Brittany always said to stab people in sparing so the blade would flex more and be nicer to opponent.

[@Scott-qq9jd]

Very interesting work. At first I found myself thinking that the penetration was so negligible that it wouldn't make it past a gambeson. Then you found your groove. Makes me want that Rondel. I've had my eye on it for years.

[@maunz5791]

I love how the safety glasses look like the mask from Zorro or the princess bride in some shots! Nice video!

[@wanderingwind9601]

I’m glad you tested a different section of undamaged mail. I had been wondering about that all video

[@Memilish]

A neat lesson in technique and finding the correct tool for the job.

[@makisonoda7925]

Sweet! Thanks for the cool video. I was always partial to the Rapier against light armor like padded coats and mail. But actually seeing it tested by three different types of Rapiers and a Rondal dagger, that was awesome.

[@TeamKhandiKhane]

This is a really cool and honestly unexpected result. The follow through really making it effective was quite the sight.

[@IosuamacaMhadaidh]

Fear not Skullagrim, I'm not subscribed and only casually watch, but your channel has begun to be shown in my suggestions again. P.S. I subscribed, shame on me, I know.

[@YourCrazyDolphin]

I've heard part of what made rapiers so effective against armor was their flexibility- upon hitting the metal the blade would bend until reaching a gap in the armor where it easily pierces through. Your initial tests with the 3rd rapier definitely seem to reflect that particularly in how you describe it felt: initial resistance (as the rapier hits the armor) the suddenly vanishes (as the point slides off the ring and into a gap).

[@jetshadowcrow]

I am putting in an answer at the beginning, the rapier is great for thrusting, however it is flexible and has a tendency to bend or flex. After watching the video, I was surprised by the side sword style rapier, it has a less narrow tip and still punches well. As expected, the Spanish rapier had little trouble. That being said very fun to watch.

[@verimp1323]

9:00 Well, yes, but if we are talking about western Europe. In central and especially eastern Europe mail was used (sometimes as primary, sometimes as secondary) type of protection until late 1700s. In Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth for example "Armoured Companions" (or "Towarzysze Pancerni" in Polish) were a cavaly unit dressed in mail from upper legs up to the head. That was also the case in crimean cavalry and cossack infantry (in their case the mail was often hidden under their clothes) as well. And it's worth to point out that rapiers in that region were used primarly by the Swedes. And Swedes were often fighting against soldiers described above, so the discussion about effectiveness of rapier against mail in this geo-historical setting makes even more sense.

[@chstoney]

I'm just reading a fantasy book where one protagonist says that his opponent showed to a duel with chainmail and a broadsword whilst he showed with a rapier. He described it as " as it turns out, the chainmail is too full of holes for rapier,". Interesting coincidence that a few hours after listening to that sentence you publish this vid.

[@genuinehawken]

Stragen is a bastard after all

[@KatapultGaming]

Thanks for doing this test! If I remember well from my fencing days, as you made contact, we would point the sword slightly downwards and use your weight to help with the damage.

[@manulejambon]

great video! lot of test, conclusion and good editing