Accident Review B17 9oh9 Windsor Locks

FlyWire reviews the B17 'Nine-oh-Nine' accident at Bradley Airport Windsor Locks, CT in October 2019. This one is a doozy of an accident chain.
Accident Review Update #2: • B17 9o9 Final Report U...
Accident Review Update #1: • B17 9o9 Final Report R...
Accident Review: • Accident Review B17 9...
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FlyWire is about exploring flight and the freedom this incredible experience brings us on a personal level. Flying has always captured the imagination and excitement of living life to its fullest. Hi, I'm Scott Perdue. In a former life I flew the F-4 and F-15E, more recently I retired from a major airline. I've written for several aviation magazines over the years, was a consultant for RAND, the USAF, Navy, NASA as well as few others, wrote a military thriller- 'Pale Moon Rising' (still on Kindle). But mostly I like flying, or teaching flying. Some of the most fun I had was with Tom Gresham on a TV show called 'Wings to Adventure". We flew lots of different airplanes all over the country. Now with FlyWire I want to showcase the fun in flying, share the joy and freedom of flight and explore the world with you. Make sure you subscribe if you want to go along for the ride!
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[@bobmillerick300]

I'm a retired Naval Aviator. I find your videos exceptional. Your logic is dead on. I haven't heard you say anything yet that I don't agree 100% with. Thanks for the share.

[@raildawg8338]

30-year airline Captain here with a major and just had a failed engine on a 737 during climb-out. Scott your instruction is top notch. I give you the highest praise. Good CRM, SOP, not rushing and verifying everything makes an emergency quite manageable. We did such a good job that even the FAA sent a letter of congrats. And it's because of exactly what you are saying Scott. Train. Train. Train. Know that the Captain makes mistakes and needs an engaged First Officer that is comfortable pointing out errors. Thank you for all your work with this sir. I think you save a lot of pilot's lives in your work here. Chuck

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you Chuck... I didn't invent this stuff, trying to highlight best practices. I appreciate your comments.

[@gcrav]

"Know that the Captain makes mistakes and needs an engaged First Officer that is comfortable pointing out errors." The big lesson of the Tenerife disaster.

[@lcskibird]

I concur. Retired USAF and 767 CA. We need to add Scott's level of professionalism to the warbird community. We can fix this.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@lcskibird I hope so!

[@kevinmeyer3056]

Safety first means surviving. I can’t tell you how many pilots tried to save their plans, their reputation or their airplane, and lost their life.

[@PeterWTaylor]

Pride comes before a fall.

[@RetiredPilot]

Never shut down an engine that is still producing power unless it is on fire and then not below 400 feet. I ran into a bunch of geese at rotation with a 737 freighter at max gross, the left engine was destroyed but would still run at reduced power. The weather was at minimums and we had to climb over a populated area, it would have been difficult on one but 1 and a quarter worked. We returned to land again at minimums and shut down the engine taxing in. The most important point is keep flying the aircraft. There is an old saying that fits this accident. He ran out of speed, power and ideas all at the same time. We had the benefit of simulator training, however training and procedures will tend to resolve a bad situation. Also I want to mention what we called crew resource management. Two heads are four times better than one. JMHO 18,000 hours 13 engine failures, no accidents.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Absolutely!

[@canlib]

Copy that, roger over and out

[@snuffle2269]

@@canlib It's roger, out. Over means you are expecting a reply. Out means end of transmissions. FIFY

[@phil4826]

Willco

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@snuffle2269 QSY

[@johnbaskett2309]

I watched Juan's latest video on this crash. As always, it was very informative, but you just eclipsed him greatly. Filled in a lot of holes. Good job Scott.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

High praise indeed! Thanks!

[@LTVoyager]

I recall that Juan said Mac had shut down the correct engine. Scott said otherwise. I wonder who is correct?

[@johnbaskett2309]

@@LTVoyager I have massive respect for Juan and not qualified to argue his assessment, but I believe Scott has this correct.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@LTVoyager Read the report... I didn't make it up Vintage Radials took the engines apart and they said #3 had undergone severe detonation and was not producing significant power. The engineer who examined the performance also verified that. Read the Docket yourself.

[@LTVoyager]

@@FlyWirescottperdue I did not say either you or Juan made up anything. I said I wondered who was right. I have read the docket and it is not clear to me which engine was producing the least power. #3 showed signs of detonation, which can cause loss of power, but generally not a huge loss until permanent damage occurs. Even it if lost 20% of its output, that leaves 80% which is still quite useful. #4 had a completely dead left mag due to the internal short to the case. And the right mag was not firing cylinder #8 at all and was “weak and intermittent” on the remaining 8 cylinders. If we figure the dead mag cost say 10% power loss that leaves 90% left. Losing cylinder 8 means we lose 1/9 of that power at least (generally losing cylinders does not result in a linear power loss, but more than linear) which means we are now down to 80% power. Factor in that the sparks on the right mag were weak and intermittent to cylinders 1-7 and 9 and we likely lose another 10-50% power which means engine #4 might have been producing 50% power or less. That is likely much less than what was being produced by #3 even if detonating. So, if Mac shut down #4, I tend to agree that this likely was the right choice as it was likely the engine producing the least power. However, I don’t see any way to know with certainty which engine was actually the laggard and thus whether he made a good or bad choice in shutting down #4 vs #3. As an engineer, I tend to not speculate and base my opinions on the data. From what I have read thus far, I don’t think there is sufficient data to say which of #3 or #4 was in worse condition on that flight.

[@craigdreisbach5956]

My father was a PBY pilot in WWII. He continued to fly Beechcraft Barons and Cessna 206 amphibian into his Mid 70's. He's gone now, but in the twin Beech he would quiz me and harp on me to "always turn into the good engine" and "make sure you feather the "bad" engine. His aviation career was accident free, but hearing your words reminded me that even 40 years past his naval aviator training, he never forgot the rules. Thank you. Craig

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Cool!

[@LTVoyager]

Having flown the EAA B-17 a little over a year ago and just a short time before this crash, it was an amazing experience and I hope it continues. I must say that the EAA did it right. We waited a couple hours for good weather. We got a full preflight briefing. The pilots were not rushed even with the two hour delay. And a full run-up was done. It was an amazing flight made even better by having onboard with us a 94 year-old man who was shot down in a B-17 and spent the last several months of the war as a POW. I have to admit that the thought crossed my mind that it would be the ultimate irony if this man were to have survived a parachute jump from a B-17 during war only to be killed on a B-17 flight during peacetime. Thankfully, that did not happen and we all had a great time talking with him before and after the flight.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for sharing!

[@topfuelfan]

I've flown in 3 different B-17's as part of these living history rides. They are some of my favorite memories in my life. But as a recently retired Industrial Maintenance Technician with over 25 years of experience this scares the heck out of me. All through my professional career I've had to deal with what I like to call the " Cowboy Mentality". It's just Hurry up and get it done. Safety , protocols and rules out the window. Anything, at all cost to avoid the extra paperwork , trouble reports and meetings to report to management. If I made a big deal out of not following our own rules then I was the problem. R.I.P Nine-oh-Nine her crew and passengers who passed. Sorry for your loss.

[@nancychace8619]

Good comment. Sometimes too many shortcuts are taken in the interest of expediency. Yet, weigh that with what has happened recently with the rollout of vaccines. They precluded much bureaucratic flotsam and jetsom to get them going. It's awkward and fast, but will save lives if done correctly.

[@tomcoryell]

It’s easy to second guess or be a critic, but in the interest of symmetry, I would have engines that have very close SMOH numbers. And “ Don’t bother cinching up the seatbelts?” What the hell?

[@brucebaxter6923]

When management blames you for what you have to repair. I had one engineer that actually said “where there is a technician there is a breakdown, we need to get rid of the technicians”

[@topfuelfan]

@@brucebaxter6923 Yup. Sounds about right. Funny too.

[@skunkjobb]

@@nancychace8619 Bullshit! No safety protocols have been bypassed for the vaccines against Covid-19. Stop spreading that crap, it's getting thousands of people killed by unfounded fear of vaccines. Bloody stupid to bring such off topic things into a discussion about aviation.

[@ProbableCause-DanGryder]

Nice work, a sensitive topic and speculation is often viewed by many as being dis respectful to the dead. I view it the other way. This one is pretty obvious and you are being respectful to the innocent families and children who may buy a ticket to ride in “any” future warbird by calling it like it is. My video on this subjects is in production right now. Helmets on. Buckle in.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Dan!

[@richardseton7014]

Looking forward to your take Dan.

[@charlesfaure1189]

Absolutely. Looking forward to viewing it.

[@oscarjonesxxx2893]

My opinion only - when you are PIC, everything that happens during the flight is on you - not the FAA. Yeah, the FAA did not do their job but there are no 'innocent' members of the flight crew, the maintenance crew or the management of the 'charity organization' - period. Somebody, or maybe several somebodies, should go to jail as the result of the negligence of those who were responsible for the AC maintenance. And the charity boss management, too. The bosses 'knew or should have known' that the B-17 was not airworthy. It's criminal that they flew this AC as it was and even more criminal that they took several paying customers to their deaths.

[@greyjay9202]

This aircraft was not airworthy. It should never have left the ground, with those ignition system, maintenance, and performance problems. As for the captain, he broke just about every rule he could have. His first officer was not checked out on the B-17, but he was an experienced airline pilot. The captain completely ignored the man in the right seat. There was no CRM. A tragic but avoidable crash.

[@johnfranklin1955]

How’s the saying go?.....”Take offs are optional...Landings are mandatory.” Should the pilot have ever taken this plane into the air?

[@billbright1755]

Flying with “iffy” magnetos or any engine components is ridiculous. There is enough potential for problems with good engines let alone a known engine problem that might pack up at the most inopportune time of takeoff. Feathering the wrong engine a disaster waiting to happen. Now you’ve got a dead wing you should never turn into. Immediately declare emergency if not able to maneuver ship back to runway chose a belly landing if any suitable terrain available. The old bird can’t stay airborne if you can’t get enough power. It’s a testament to the B17 airframe she did as well as she did. Barely above stall with two engines out. Gear down and side slip incredible drag force. The B - 17 wing will begin it’s stall phase at rear wing root an progressively move forward and outwardly to wingtip. The prop wash of live wing will tend to slightly increase the lift regime of that wing. The dead wing now will fall off into a dropping spin. The only remedy is altitude to increase airspeed by nose down to regain lift. If control can be regained you must fly her out very gingerly by turning only into live wing. With out altitude you are rapidly running out of options. You must use remaining air speed to attempt landing on existing terrain. Probably a wheels up to avoid further drag. That’s why you run up engines prior to takeoff. One engine out at this critical regime with out full load and adequate remaining runway you may attempt light angle climb out for go around for emergency return. Inboard engine out will reduce drag felt on that side. Outboard engine will increase felt tendency to yaw into that wing. Shut systems off to dead engine and verify with crew of dead engine. Do not feather live engine. First and foremost fly the aircraft. If able to skid land cut all systems at impact to reduce fire. All crew out of nose and endeavor to remove seat harness buckles and egress aircraft by nearest exit hatch. Good chance of fire with remaining fuel load.

[@davidetcheverry944]

the mechanic who timed lindberg mags should be given equal recognition....hour after hour functioning,how many revs...reliable.

[@gretchenlittle6817]

I read the transcript of the loadmaster's testimony -- it's heartbreaking how little he knew about operations and maintenance. He was receiving "OJT" from his boss and he obviously didn't realize how lax the protocols were. God bless those lost and their families, but also bless this poor man, who has to live with the consequences.

[@SuperDave_BR549]

read the testimony in the latest NTSB report from both sides of this coin. makes the premise of trusting big brother to run things efficiently out with the bathwater. all of the alphabet institutions (faa, fbi, etc) need to be cleaned out and the top couple floors of each hq removed, charged, and fired. data.ntsb.gov/Docket?ProjectID=100356

[@dott0331]

Whenever we talk about a pilot who has been killed in a flying accident, we should all keep one thing in mind. He called upon the sum of all his knowledge and made a judgment. He believed in it so strongly that he knowingly bet his life on it. That his judgment was faulty is a tragedy, not stupidity. Every instructor, supervisor, and contemporary who ever spoke to him had an opportunity to influence his judgment, so a little bit of all of us goes with every pilot we lose. - author unknown

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Well said David.

[@phillipkalaveras1725]

If it wasn't stupidity then it was murder

[@tomcoryell]

Scott, this is excellent! From watching Juan’s video, I couldn’t figure out why losing one engine would be such a huge power loss. Going back to culture, I think it is great that Mac knew the most about these machines in the Collings organization, but that is also a weakness because there is no one to verify or question his judgement. Sadly, very sadly, we now know his judgement was flawed and he made hasty assumptions. I’m looking forward to Juan’s Part 2 video as well. I’m a mechanic by trade and was appalled at the state of those magnetos. My beat up old ‘71 Volkswagen has better ignition parts on it and I’m on the ground with no passengers.

[@Cleetusvandamm105]

This reminds me of the sinking of the HMS Bounty replica. It seems inevitable that old expensive to maintain craft inevitably lead to a mind set of being frugal and living with or delaying repairing faults that most would find unacceptable. Add to that the dependence on volunteers which can lead to a routine of depending on a few experienced people. Those people become used to handling issues themselves as they crop up rather than having a depth of experience to delegate problem solving. when things go unexpectedly bad,the results can become overwhelming

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

true!

[@kenmoses2385]

Scott, just finished your well explained video and as a former command pilot with 11years and 400 hrs in a B17G I found this sad story to be spot on. In an aircraft of this size low and slow is a recipe for failure and a very bad outcome ! As your aware during your yearly PPE ck ride each command pilot must show proficiency in engine out scenarios which include instrument approaches with two engines at zero thrust on the same side . A missed approach at DH is doable but you need airspeed , some altitude and a clean aircraft plus CRM...crew resource management ! In this particular case those golden three letters ( CRM ) could have saved lives and a very precious aircraft ! The Museum I was involved with was indeed part of the that History of Flight program and without exception the FAA inspectors that jump seated during those ck rides were not in tune with the program nor had any knowledge of that aircraft . Is was not uncommon to have them sit in the back and not ever question the ck pilot giving the PPE but they sure took time to look over the paperwork for anything they could bitch about. Again you were spot on pointing out the mistakes made and any one of which could have saved the day and lives. How many have perished by shutting down an engine that is still producing power ? My advise was if is still turning and not burning fly it to the scene of the crash as it might give you that little extra so you can walk away if your in that critical phase of flight. The ride program as we called it 20 plus years ago served two purposes, give the people a real chance to first hand experience history and also generate revenue for the Museum. Now that aircraft ( Fuddy Duddy ) is part of another Museum and most likely will never fly again and I’m afraid this tragic loss of 909 will have a negative effect on the future of any WW2 aircraft ride program . Thanks for the great videos

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for sharing Ken!

[@JJ-cf7nb]

Excellent video. Unfortunately these types of operations rely on enthusiasts to fly and maintain their aircraft, and often these folks have passion but poor training standards and maintenance. For those planning to purchase rides on these old aircraft, best set aside your sense of romance; these are unforgiving machines that require a professional skilled crew at every level of the operation.

[@silasmarner7586]

Extremely well put. I've had a chance on a Tri-Motor and I'd love to but I'd have to ask a TON of questions that would irritate and offend them methinks, before I'd step onboard.

[@Bluenose352]

Before being type rated to fly a certain Warbird, you need to have quite a few hours in said Warbird. Some groups require you to have a couple hundred hours. As for A&P's qualified to maintain Warbirds. There are many. But, the practice is slowly fading with younger generations. As far as training, A&P's are trained by qualified A&P's of previous generations. Enthusiasts, yes. But, they have to be qualified, per FAA, before touching, and signing off on a Warbird. Unfortunately, it sounds like Collings avoided those requirements.

[@nickxidis9571]

I’m not an experienced enough aviator to judge anyone but, I’ve been an executive long enough to see when an organization is in trouble. I think the real cause is really two things, and none of them have anything to do with the aircraft: 1. The organization had become to dependent on a single individual. One person was chief pilot, director of maintenance, mechanic, and check airman. He also had so much experience and clout that no one was going to question him. 2. The FAA totally failed. I’m sure the FSDO manager has a list of excuses as long as your arm but, the bottom line is no one was providing any oversight on this organization or its operations.

[@markmossinghoff8185]

The employee that you can't do without should be the 1st one to go.

[@apga1998]

Nick, I think you've got it. This is a channel for aviators so, as pilots, they naturally focus on how to deal with the hand they are dealt. Nothing wrong with that. But, as you say, the original sin in this tragedy is far removed from failing magnetos, or failing engines. The crash investigators published 1200 pages of technical details. This shouldn't be a distraction. The Foundation set about to honor the courage of the men and their machines. In the event, they allowed processes which ultimately destroy the machines they seek to preserve, as well as the very benefactors needed to sustain their highly admirable intentions. Que lastima!

[@jimshewokis6778]

He could not be that experienced. He couldn’t handle a simple problem. No checklists, emergency procedures etc. 75 years old flying a 4 engine bomber 75 years old. Heck in few years he could possibly not drive a car. What a shit show.

[@apga1998]

@@jimshewokis6778 Mac was the most experienced B17 pilot in the world at the time of the crash. But I think you understand the problem quite well.

[@dyer2cycle]

..I want to relate an experience indirectly related to this, I have related it on other videos concerning this crash, so I will try to be brief...in 2013, the B-17, B-24, and TP-51C stopped at our local small airport in Blairsville, Ga...I had seen the bombers on tour before several times, but had never seen the TP-51C...It had just landed after giving a ride, and I walked around the aircraft, admiring it, and saw something that alarmed me..I am NOT an aircraft mechanic or pilot, but I saw the wing-to-fuselage fairing, fillet, whatever it is called, on the starboard side, had several missing rivets and a noticeable gap between the fillet and fuselage, clearly caused by the missing rivets...I could clearly see, that if the fillet departed the aircraft in flight, it was in direct line with the starboard horizontal stabilizer and had a good chance of taking it out, potentially causing the aircraft to crash...I promptly voiced my concern to a nearby volunteer, who then referred me to a younger guy(can't recall his name, but it was NOT Mac), who was supposed to be the flight/maintenance director, safety director, or something like that...I walked with him to the aircraft and pointed out the damage/issue, and was shocked and dismayed by his response.."Ah, it'll be alright", or something dismissive to that affect....I couldn't believe there was such a lack of concern for a potential safety issue....

[@olbuck]

The "safety director" probably worked at "Grease Monkey on weekdays. (Volunteers are hard to find. Knowledgeable WWII crew are now impossible, since all survivors are over 90. )

[@averageguy371]

While I don't have a Mustang maintenance manual & I don't work on 51s, it is possible what you saw was Ok. Even supersonic aircraft have acceptable limits for missing fasteners. Have to ask a Mustang guy to know for sure in this case. Still, it's bad form for such a thing, both for peace of mind of potential paying passengers & for aesthetics of the aircraft, if it is a flyable. BTW, you've NEVER (nor will you EVER) flown on an aircraft that had zero issues. They all have flyable writeups.

[@pibbles-a-plenty1105]

I'm 79 and I know what the problem is with people who voluntarily are in it for the fun, the excitement and the nostalgia. They don't really give a damn. They're retired, well off, and don't like catering to the demands of others let alone rules and regs. If you've escaped the Grim Reaper at least once you may have taken a lesson. If your britches have always been lucky safety awareness has never really taken station in your mind. A safety culture is a social regime that has to be taught, practiced and supported continuously. It doesn't come naturally because human weakness dictates avoidance of discomfort. Great presentation, Scott.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

That very well could be.

[@MalcolmRuthven]

Thanks for the great report, Scott. My take on this since the preliminary report came out was that there were multiple serious failures in maintenance procedures, so serious that Collings should never again be allowed to fly passengers in their planes. Now you've added the very poor decisions by the pilot, who was very experienced in the B-17. All in all, just an accident waiting to happen. Also, I boarded that plane for a flight about a year before that. They had trouble starting one engine (likely for the reason you explained) and they had all of us leave the plane until they fixed the problem. I decided to not get back on.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Probably a good idea. Thanks for sharing!

[@MrSahansdal]

Yes, probably good choice. According to his copilot, my dad flew his shot-up B-24 to a safe landing in England in 1944. Two engines shot out by 100 ME109s on one side. April 8, 1944. The day that nearly prevented my existence. I believe I saw this plane in Watsonville and Half Moon Bay years ago. Never had the desire, certainly not the nerve, to fly with Collins. Another good choice. Imagine flying several hours standing on right rudder while the crew chucks everything out the window. Only one died, as he held his heater wire, not the rip cord. He was tail gunner and was in shock from a 20mm to the tail. I think he should have been kept aboard. But that is Monday-morning quarterbacking.

[@eclipser2004]

I think there was panic in those last seconds. Adding power to the left engines was a knee-jerk reaction to hitting the runway lights to get a bit of altitude. It just induced a right yaw which there was no recovery from.

[@MalcolmRuthven]

@@eclipser2004 You may well be right, but panic has no place in a pilot's repertoire. We, and especially a very experienced pilot like that one, should be able to handle whatever happens without panic. Possibly unsuccessfully, but still without panic.

[@jimshewokis6778]

Define experienced. If this pilot had survived he could have been brought up on murder charges.

[@alankordzikowski7670]

I’ve been around Aviation my whole life; even serve in the Air Force. But I don’t claim to be a SME, or anything of the sort. In May 2019 I was volunteering with the Airdales providing ground ops for the D-Day Squadron. They were forming up and practicing at Oxford airport in Waterbury Connecticut. During one of the morning briefings before a formation flight, lead pilot to the CAF’s C-47 “That’s All Brother” Doug Rozendaal said something that stuck with me; it is especially true in this situation or for any historic flying. “Our fathers had to fly, we chose to”...let that sink in. Just because a crew chief in ww2 would keep these planes flying with beer cans, rubber bands and bubble gum. Does not mean that’s safe, or how it needs to be done today. Proper maintenance is essential to safety, as is crew coordination and communication, and training. All of which is mute now for 909, but hopefully wakes up any other warbird organization or any aviator as to what can happen if they cut corners.

[@The_DuMont_Network]

Well said. Jakeleg repairs are for emergencies. Thanks for your work keeping history alive.

[@dukecraig2402]

That's right, and that's also part of the reason that of all the losses that the 8th Air Force had in WW2 a full one third of them were due to accidents. I've been working on motorcycles for a living for over 30 years and I'm constantly stressing to people that maintenance on them should be done with the same standards that aircraft are maintained with because there's almost as much at stake and the same forgiveness of errors.

[@bearowen5480]

"Moot" not "mute"

[@jchinik9786]

Juan Brown's video made it sound like blowing out the magnetos was a standard procedure for this type mag. Maybe I misunderstood that it was standard only on the B-17? From Scotts video it's a made up procedure. Wonder which is the case. Wild how redundancy doesn't matter when so many redundant systems are not maintained properly. Have to wonder if not calling an emergency was about not wanting anyone to find out what kind of shape the systems were in, I bet there were issues all over that plane

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

It is NOT a standard maintenance procedure. That doesn't mean it is illegal.

[@RobtheAviator]

Great analysis. There is a lot for us to take away from this.

[@jordanryan5064]

This makes me sad all around--the initial reports were that the King of B-17's had done his best to get it back and save at least some. The fuller truth hurts; a shoddily-maintained airplane, a one-man-band with the world on his shoulders shutting down the wrong engine, dropping the gear before the runway was made, and refusing to declare an emergency. Just sad.

[@canlib]

And flaps not extended for landing

[@tryithere]

Maybe the co-pilot dropped the gear on his own and the pilot didn't realize it. It is criminal though to fly such a shoddily maintained plane.

[@robmorgan1214]

@@canlib that's the one good decision this guy made. If he put out the flaps he'd just increase the drag (without the power available to reach the runway). At lower speed (90mph) there's insufficient air over the control surfaces to compensate for the continued turn opposite to the direction of the engine yaw but the second he hit the ground he no longer had that problem so he should have cut the power completely to straighten out. He needed power or energy and he was already too slow for flaps. The real issue was chopping power to early in the flight, a feathered prop, gear down too soon, not declaring an emergency that would have allowed him to turn opposite to the direction of the pattern for a shorter steeper higher energy approach, and committing to the more distant runway etc. Flaps would only have made a difference if he switched runways requiring a steeper approach which would have actually been possible with more drag at that power level. He simply was not competent to fly that plane. He didn't understand the low speed end of the flight envelope or basic emergency procedures. Any way you look at it the accident was easily avoidable and once the emergency started simply acknowledge would have made it completely preventable either by using BASIC CRM or BASIC airmanship. My guess is that by the time he hit the runway lights the engines were already beginning to pull him into an accelerated stall.

[@timothyjones1577]

I also flew on the Collins Foundation B-17 out of the York (Thomasville) PA airport almost 20 years ago. My uncle had served in the 8th Air Force as a "toggle-lier" on a B-17. It gave me an appreciation of what a crew experienced . It is tragic that lives were lost in this accident. It will be tragic to not have the opportunity to fly again in vintage planes if this accident makes the liability too costly. We may only be able to see them fly by or on static display. As an aviation enthusiast (not a pilot), I respect your take and insight into the root causes of the accident. This again shows the series of bad decisions, not just one, that has fatal consequences. My deepest sympathy to all of the families.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

I hope we don't lose the LFHE program because of this accident, for reasons just as you have expressed.

[@375GTB]

If you can't afford to maintain it.... Don't fly it.... Learned at my N.E. Tampa FLA grass strip FBO 1957 - 1969.. From the third grade to H.S. graduation Kids were welcome.... GoFers A great education... Not just for flying Racing sports cars Motor bikes Dragsters Things that can kill you.... Or others Poor gun maintainance & safety training Poor fire safety.. Boating accidents ALL have the same tragic penalties.... When ignored... Experience! LIFE! J.C.

[@Steamtramman719]

I'm fascinated by this as many long years ago as one of a dozen mixed nationality pilots flying for a 'foreign country' when we were bored we tried to resurrect a number of aircraft left lying about, 3 pre-war. Our two maddest pilots were a pair of excellent Japanese, 3 were ex Luftwaffe and thought we were mad until we got a Fieseler Storck operational, that became their toy but they were meticulous at pre flight checks. One shell we rebuilt ran along the runway and decided we knew why it was abandoned! But we all survived these activities because we were a small tight team.

[@cr6925]

Rubbish. The mags on both 3 & 4 were both shoddily set up. The safety program wasn't there.

[@theoldbigmoose]

Also why would a certified A&P mechanic haywire a critical connection to not one magneto, but two magnetos? Also those mags sure don't look like they went through overhaul 300 or so hours ago.

[@shoominati23]

I struggle to believe that, When you look at the condition of those parts.. Were the overhauled magnetos set aside to be put onto the craft at a later time? I just struggle with that seeing the cost of a can of degreaser and a few rags is not more than about 4 dollars. I dont see how it could come to this if the guy called himself a mech?

[@nigelalderman9178]

@@theoldbigmoose would knackered be the technical term. Can be properly rebuilt with new bearings windings etc

[@gilbertfranklin1537]

Scott, I am subscribed but rarely comment because my only exposure to aviation is via KZbin. But, as I understand this, the B-17 Flying Fortress was originally designed and built starting back in the 1930's. Regardless of the care given, or condition of this aircraft, flying in it is surely less safe than in late model airplanes. My question is; Do the sponsors of these flights require that participants sign any type of release stating that they are aware of this and accept the risk? Otherwise, I would imagine that the insurance rates for such an enterprise might be prohibitively high, or one greedy high-powered lawyer could wind up shutting down all these businesses... and that would be sad indeed.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Good question Gilbert and thanks for asking/watching. Yes, the passengers probably signed a release of liability. I'm not a lawyer, so I can't speak for how strong that it.

[@bearowen5480]

Credentials: 24 year flying career in tactical jets, USMC, USN, ANG. 20 year career with Part 121 carrier, 737, 747, 757, 767, and DC-10, type rated in all but 747. I had recently viewed other podcast videos on this accident before I watched yours. They pretty much matched your analysis, point by point, all good information for preventing another tragedy like this one. The one surprising difference in your report, Scott, was your clear and unambiguous assertion that the PIC feathered the wrong engine, probably because of his personal bias created by his past personal experience with the balky performance history of engine number four. I would speculate that this mistake was most likely exaacerated by the fact that his extensive general aviation career did not include the simulator and CRM training he would otherwise have received had he been a Part 121, Part 135, or US military transport/tanker/ bomber pilot. He, the Foundation, and the Feds made a lot of mistakes here which all contributed to this very preventable tragedy. "The system" failed him and the others on board who perished unnecessarily: 1. The FAA FSDO that egregiously failed to provide appropriate oversight of the Foundation's maintenance and flightcrew training; 2. The Foundation's failure to exercise its own responsibility for training and monitoring its flight operations and maintenance functions. With the recent tragic midair collision at Dallas, and this very unfortunate crash at Bradley, we have lost multiple lives, two precious irreplaceable B-17s, and a P-63 King Cobra. I get it that these warbird operations are profoundly important from the historic preservation and public interest standpoints, but also that keeping them flying is an incredibly expensive proposition. Because of the associated financial considerations, there are all kinds of incentives to cut corners, fudge procedures, and pencil whip flight training, safety management, and aircraft maintenance integrity. If we want to preserve this very valuable warbird institution, all of us in aviation need to look in the mirror and clean up our own acts, or our overweening government is going to shut us all down, not just the warbirds and living history flights for hire. I suggest starting with AQP for all general aviation pilots, while buying in to a universal safety culture that will reduce the accident rate and save many lives. We know how to do it if we really want to. Scott, your perspective and voice are an essential component of the solution, so keep it up, Brother!

[@rharder122]

I happened to be driving by and saw the B-17 flying South just in the tree line that day. It wasn't in the trees but that there were trees between me the plane. To step back a bit, at 9:30am that mornnig I received a phone call that my mother had just passed away and I told my sister that I would be going home to get changed and then heading to my mothers house. My intent that day was to stop and photograph the war birds after work and had all my photo equipment in the back of my car. I was traveling West on Rte 20 when I saw the B-17 and thought it must have just taken off being so low. When I got to the end of the runway it had just crashed into the building by the end of the runway and there was a huge fireball rising up into the sky. The ironic part of this whole incident was that my mother is English and was born and raised in London where she met my father who was a crew chief on a B-17 bomber. during WW2. I recently found out that my father was one of only 7 crew chiefs awarded the Bronze Star for maintaining a bomber with no missed mission due to mechanical issues.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Amazing story!

[@chrisjeppesen2993]

Scott you nailed it right from the beginning a complete lac of a safety culture at all levels of responsibility.

[@un65tube]

Even ony being a model aircraft flyer it was very instructive to watch that video and to learn about the chain of failures and the need of doing the right things at the right time. So sorry for al the people that have died or been injured in the crash and the loss of a beautiful piece of history. Thanks for that very interesting video. Merry Christmas, stay safe and healthy. Greetings from Germany!

[@briggsquantum]

A brilliant summation of the important facts of this incident Scott. Your conclusions are also very well stated. Given your recent and completely successful handling of the B25 engine failure this video is entirely credible. Many thanks for your work in producing it.

[@neatstuff8200]

Just this much will save many. If an engine is producing power that is forward acceleration then consider leaving it running if you at all are in danger of ground Contact. In the simulator it works every time it's designed That way. In real life things happen......

[@flyonbyya]

My dad was a crew member aboard the B-17, flew all 35 missions out of Thorpe Abbott field to targets over Nazi Germany, Eighth Air Force, 100th BG.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

That's cool. I've been to Thorpe Abbott about a dozen times, really excellent museum there if you ever get the chance to go! Good on your Dad!!!

[@flyonbyya]

@@FlyWirescottperdue I believe there’s a picture of my dad in the museum. After his 35 missions, he worked in the control tower. He told me many many stories and events he endured. As typical of guys of his generation, He told them as matter of fact, with little focus on himself. My older brother was a backseater in F-4’s.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@flyonbyya That's really cool. I probably saw his picture!

[@Bluenose352]

I'm not sure if you go on Social Media, or not. Though, I do consider KZbin Social Media, so I assume you might. On Facebook, there's a page for the 100th BG. They would love to have you join.

[@flyonbyya]

@@Bluenose352 Sweet Thanks!

[@jeffhicks1008]

The pilot no matter whats being said about how good he was or his experience in B17s or even being a A&P rated mechanic, he was a lousy pilot backed up by a subpar crew that killed 5 innocent pax along with him and one crew member. Old men were not flying these aircraft during WWII and they should not be flying them today or doing shade tree repairs . Hopefully some younger pilots will step up and start flying these treasures . I will be going over to the NTSB website shortly to start reading the Docket and then make a more educated comment, didn't even know it was out yet until Juan had a two part video on this and now Flywire good work guys. That's my 2 cents on this sorry if I piss anyone off.

[@Bluenose352]

Not pissing me off, but it has changed. During WWII, if a B-17 goes down, or has too much damage, it can easily be replaced. Today, because they can't be easily replaced,, you want pilots with more hours in whichever Warbird they're type rated to fly. But, I understand what you're saying.

[@loboheeler]

It was a big mistake to have the chief pilot also be in charge of maintenance. Poor maintenance ultimately caused this tragedy. As was pointed out, the airspeed could not be maintained on two engines with the gear down. Trying to bring it in with two engines on one side at full power was crazy. This is the pilot with the most B-17 experience of anybody? Yes, it is expensive to do training flights in these @ 20 fuel gallons per hour. And "blowing out the mags" seems like a Mickey Mouse procedure. Was this widely used on other radial engines military or civilian?

[@MrSahansdal]

@@loboheeler Did you mean to say 200 gph?

[@noahgrove2046]

Just discovered your channel. This was a great analysis and explanation of the accident. Hopefully warbirds can continue to fly and everyone can learn valuable lessons from this. I fear for the future of living history flight programs though.

[@Av8or7]

Very good video. I have time in the DC3. I think the pilots of these aircraft shot be current airline pilots. Though the aircraft differ significantly in technology, the mindset of the crew should be the same. The operational mindset of the foundation as a whole cost 7 lives and one beautiful airworthy WW2 Aircraft.

[@av8ir68]

Scott, I have not watched Juan's video's or anybody else's take on this accident except for yours. I know you have time in a B25 and I figured you might have the best understanding of the situation. I am puzzled by the amount of shortfalls that led up to this huge failure!! I appreciate you taking your valuable time to sift through endless stacks of paperwork to help us understand the truth. I never want living history flights to end, but I want them to be safe for people to enjoy! Seems like there is a lot of flak to fly through to make these flights safe again on so many levels!! Great job on this video.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you. It would be a huge loss to all of us if we lost the LFHE program. It is a way to touch history!

[@owenmerrick2377]

No doubt about it- this will be a report that will have far reaching consequences, from the FAA on down; a game changer. Good report.

[@ThomasCEwing]

Fantastic synopsis, Scott! I really like the point you made about the fact that this could happen to any one of us.... if we don't maintain a culture of safety. I have attended the funerals of many pilots over the years that I thought had better flying skills than I do. It's a sobering thought. The one thing I miss since retiring from a check airman position at a major airline is the annual safety review. Being able to see and hear detailed analysis of how other pilots handled emergencies, whether good or bad, right or wrong, was the most valuable training I ever received. It emphasized over and over the fact that near catastrophic emergencies, when handled well by a crew, often had a successful outcome, while other minor inflight problems could easily develop into a catastrophic event if mishandled. Your Flywire analysis of this event certainly reminded me of the invaluable safety review training. It is something we can all learn from.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Tom, excellent point!

[@davecat1458]

Let the lawsuits start flying, if they haven’t already. Your post along with Juan Brown have sealed the deal for me. I have contemplated a ride in Texas Raiders B-17 which hangars at my home drone, CXO. Not anymore. No way, no how will I ever put my butt in a warbird unless it is a static display. The info the 2 of you provided says it all. The paying public had and has no idea of the risk involved. I will go one step further than both of you and say the Collins Foundation acted with negligence and knowingly put an unairworthy 75 year old warbird in the air with an incompetent crew. Tragic, on the verge of criminal!

[@keithnoneya]

Thank you for the break down. Class "A" Accidents (loss of plane or life), just rarely happen, it's usually a chain of events where things were overlooked or ignored on purpose to save time, money or a reputation. Unfortunately it happens, it's just disastrous that some innocent people paid with their lives. I hope the FAA takes a long hard look at training and certification's of these war-birds & pilots to ensure they both stay in the air safely. Again thanks for the update, it helps know the why's. Best Wishes & Blessings. Keith Noneya

[@billbowden8047]

Thanks, nice breakdown of the Nine-oh-Nine accident.

[@daltonloney6539]

I climbed all over witchcraft and Nine-o-nine a few months prior. First time I had the opportunity to go inside a B-17 and I'll cherish those memories.

[@AugustMeteors]

I had been all through Nine-o-Nine in Nashua just maybe four days before the crash, and for years I had been going to whatever nearest airport was hosting these Collings planes when the tour came around in fall. Never did get to fly in the B-17, but a year or two before the crash my husband and I flew in the B-25 when they were in Keene. Glad we flew; it was one of the high points in our life: but let me tell you, I don't think I'd fly with Collings again, because the process seemed a little cavalier even then. And I will miss seeing that lovely B-17. It was my favorite plane in the tour, year after year! Horrible to think that so many people were killed on something I loved so much.

[@angiewells9589]

Rip to all passengers crew and family.

[@mrmikemcdonald]

I’m a non-pilot that enjoys listening to aviators discuss the profession. I want to compliment your presentation, media, and information; all because they added to my knowledge. Well done especially for we lay followers.

[@TSemasFl]

I flew on B17 9o9 on its last trip to Ft. Lauderdale in 2018. I bought two tickets for my girlfriend and i and it was the best $900. i ever spent. Made this 50 year old feel like a little kid doing the funnest thing everrr. One this day, everything ran perfect, and the plane flew great with no engine problems. My experience was no different than what a WWII crew member would have experienced. I was not on a commercial airliner, nor did i want it to be like that. I want to feel a B17 in its true glory and i did. I took plenty of video footage of the flight from engine start, takeoff and landing. One day i will make a movie of it and upload it to youtube. I really look forward to riding on B24 Witchcraft as soon as it's able to get back in the air. Prayers to the Collings Foundation and crew, RIP to the victims.

[@MrSahansdal]

Please, for those of us who didn't dare to do it. My dad was a B-24 pilot.

[@jmp.t28b99]

Every flight is a learning experience IMO. Retired after 47 years of flying professionally.

[@chirellealanalooney7895]

What was it that made that Pilot qualified to be a B - 17 Pilot whenn he made so many errors / mistakes, especially revving up the engines on the ground after landing? He sounds pretty bizarre to me, and I think he was lying about knowing anything about B-17 Planes.

[@Bluenose352]

You need to have a certain amount of hours in a multi-engine aircraft. You become checked out by a pilot certified in that particular aircraft, and the FAA. Mac had over 1,000 hours in the B-17

[@DennisGentry]

@@Bluenose352 Specifically, 7,500 hours in the B-17, more than any other pilot.

[@richardseton7014]

Exceptional! Thorough! Professional! Thank you Scott.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Much appreciated!

[@robertbarnett3245]

This was a very good description of the problems that all safety programs experience - the pressure to show a profit. I've been an electrical engineer for 50 years and as part of the work I was responsible for designing a safe system. I was always question on my designs because I followed the National Electrical Code. Virtually no one knows the Code and no one enforces it. Well, no one until an accident occurs. I fear that until women rule to world men will always think with their balls and someone will go through the meat grinder because of it. None the less, it is important work you're doing to bring these points home. Thanks for that.

[@gcrav]

Nine-O-Nine was like a seasonal marker where I live, floating by and casting its radial rumble through the sky for a few days each year. Did the tour a couple of times, talked with a couple of B-17 veterans and got their stories. Some good historical artifacts on display including flight briefing notes with sketches in a small loose leaf notebook. Took a friend of mine who was able to get some video of a landing for his stepfather, who was shot down over Vienna in a B-24. Hearing of the loss of Nine-O-Nine made a very sad day.

[@larryw4165]

Thank you. I understand now. I hope that the changes (coming/made) will save the program.

[@randycollins5981]

First let me say im a heavy equipment mechanic NOT an airplane mechanic, however they make modern reliable electronic ignition systems for many vintage gas engines, so why not airplane engines ?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Yeah.... maybe someday.

[@possel4747]

Because the approved system is the old one. To get a new one approved for an aircraft would cost serious money, and you wouldn't want them using a non-approved system...

[@Bluenose352]

@@possel4747 Exactly. Otherwise the B-17 would be in the EXPERIMENTAL category.

[@bobcornford3637]

Gents, does anyone know where I can get hold of the NTSB report please?

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

@@bobcornford3637 Look for it on the CAROL website, you'll get a link from the NTSB webpage.

[@chrisn7188]

I work near the airport and fly out of BDL often. I had a look at the crash site several times from a distance and heard second hand stories from witnesses and a relative of one of the victims. The situation never added up until I watched this video. Thank you for your research and professional insight. Prayers for those hurt and lost in this senseless tragedy.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you Christopher, prayers indeed!

[@glenndower2513]

Same here Christopher. I have help to run airshows over the past 20 years where Colling's planes were the attraction. I also have known Mac (and others from Collings) for those 20 years. I was also trying to add up what I could find out and none of it was making sense other than "there were engine problems..." and "they hit lights...and deicing tanks.." Scott has done an excellent for us who love these planes and young, now old men who flew them.

[@thestone46]

That Airplane should have been “Grounded” by the A and E mechanic which, I understand, MAC was. No one would fly a plane while a problem is being “chased”.. I suspect that he was being encouraged to keep it in the air to raise $$$ for the institution....Let's take a look at the top! From the look of the engine pictures, the condition was deplorable!

[@jimshewokis6778]

Who took MACs AP test🤔 Was his idea of maintenance in a spray bottle and can of wax.

[@craftpaint1644]

Some of that condition is crash damage, fire damage🔥

[@ejwesp]

An excellent object lesson in the concept of breaking the accident chain through a preventative culture of safety and using all available resources to break the chain once you realize you're in one that is unfolding in real time. Listening to your explanation of the chain here, one finds oneself all but shouting out to the crew several times during the narrative as if that could have changed the outcome. Your presentation couldn't change this particular outcome but, if one listens carefully and learns, future accidents will have been prevented. And that is an invaluable contribution to aviation.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks EJ.... you hit the nail on the head!

[@jstephenallington8431]

Possibly the best narration (and explanation) of the events of Nine O Nine's crash yet. I was reasonably sure that the main failures were that they turned into the dead engine(s) and that the aircraft was too low and too slow to achieve a safe landing. Of course, throw in a pilot error, (feathering the wrong engine) and there they were, outside the flight envelope, and unable to make a controlled landing.

[@ThePaulv12]

After watching this vid, my take of one of the deciding causal factors is this, they knew they were dodgy operators so they had to get it back down without declaring an emergency to avoid an investigation. This, in part, probably contributed a the single biggest proportion of the chain of events after the incorrect engine shutdown of course. It goes something like this, declaring an emergency in likelihood would've initiated an investigation finding at least some the issues found in the 1200 page report though perhaps not all. Getting it back down might only have been a 3 or 4 page incident report. It was probably hoped by the pilot that there might've been no damage (and therefore no fatalities) and therefore no regulatory issue that some well directed BS couldn't fix. Declaring an emergency surely would have initiated an investigation that found so many problems they'd cease to exist. The way you describe it, it seems to me human factors around the regulatory process were several slices of the cheese in this instance.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

See my video on the B25 single engine emergency at Las Vegas. The reaction to declaring an emergency is overblown and commonly misunderstood.

[@ThePaulv12]

@@FlyWirescottperdue I have seen it. It is great. The argumentative controller was a goose. But the thing is, although I hear what you say, this is often not the perception among many pilots. There is also the not insubstantial fear of repercussions from employers. This is because employees know they are working for a bad operator and bad operators always intimidate employees. At the bowser a few years ago the boss came out and accused me of threatening to report him to regulators. Now the company I work for is as dodgy as they come. Anyhow it wasn't me, I told him and every time I went to fuel up an office staff member came out to the bowser. 18 months later I was speaking to somebody about it and they said he's just fishing as he's accused others of this. This is how companies keep their employees in check. These companies are everywhere which is why this preventable stuff keeps happening. It is a game for some employers to see how far they can go. They likley have narcissism personality disorder and the accordingly in their own minds, the rules don't apply to them.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Interesting comments! Could be true. You are right that lots of folks have a misconception about declaring and emergency. It’s hard to fix that.

[@Tomxman]

Yep he passed up a perfectly good runway calling emergency or not Disagree about #4 engine. The mag p leads were grounded out and min point clearence maybe it half power on TO but lost it on crosswind Definitely agree should pulled all power off and ground up the end Id lights maybe wiped off the gear like the B-25 just did in Northern Ca over that ditch no deaths there

[@fabianboss4160]

Great take on the accident. Before the crash I had only heard good thinks about the Collings Foundation in terms of training, maintenance and safety (only second-hand infos, reports,...). But this really shines a different light on it. Its shocking to see how lightly the operation was handled, not just by the Foundation but also the FSDO, especially with a complex airplane like a B-17 and with 10 people onboard. I know afterwards its always easy to say "would, should, could" and I'm not really in a position to judge an experienced flight crew in a highly stressful situation, but like you said, there were so many situations where the accident could have been prevented or at least turned into a non-fatal one (both on the ground and in the air). On a lighter note, your Stearman is beautiful. Would love to see more videos with it =) Merry Christmas and a happy (and hopefully better) new year =)

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Fabian, more Stearman videos coming when its warmer!

[@fabianboss4160]

@@FlyWirescottperdue Thats great! Looking forward to it =)

[@bcgrittner]

Overconfident piloting, perhaps?

[@craftpaint1644]

I like how kid-centric the old WWII training films are, they're always reminding the audience "Don't trust to luck - use the procedure."

[@marccutler4589]

old, not so bold pilot. watching the immediate aftermath of this mess it was clear to me what went on. Some how the witness comments that #3 was snapping and crackling were fazed out of the conversation. #3 was eating it's lunch... but ole #4 was causing problems again...The whole industry of old birds, whether for thrills, fire or cargo is hanging by the thread of "ain't these great". Yes they are, but you aren't those guys. They are all gone, and WWII with them. Too bad is all I can say.

[@robertstorrieiii2760]

Not here to condemn, however, in any multiengine aircraft, anytime yaw is uncontrollable, and it occasionally happens, ya gotta reach up and reduce power on the proper engine , place all ya got on the proper rudder peddle, maintain a slight bank into the good engine(s) and maintain proper attitude along with solid flying AIRSPEED. On takeoff, if the yaw (nose) gets away from ya and ya can't stop its progression, pull off all of the power and abort the takeoff. Better to wear out the brakes or have a collision with a minor object than fall outta the sky and create a fireball. The good engine(s), if you choose to continue, will only carry you to the scene of the crash (possible fireball). If and when making the field with caged/wind milling engine(s), one must maintain directional control through the flare and roll out. Your airspeed will govern the aircraft's touchdown point, especially if you're having to trade altitude for airspeed. Remember, on final, all of the garbage is out, the drag is high and eroding lift, you must control the aircraft's airspeed and attitude all the way to touchdown. Sometimes that can be short of the runway. And, if this happens to ya while you're operating at an airport with a operating control tower, TELL ATC ya got troubles and that you're landing on any runway you can make! Scott, your presentations are very smooth and so informative, thanks for your productions. The GA community will always benefit from your contributions!

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks for sharing Robert!

[@rjbishop12]

Scott, watched this a second time today after being so impressed the first time I watched it in December. Your analysis is SO IMPRESSIVE, and you bring up so many valuable pointers and insight. THANK YOU for your devotion to accurate reporting and digging into the details.

[@Imnotyourdoormat]

with respect, i thought you "never turn into the bad engine" ever...let alone 2.

[@arthurmontana8791]

Yeah; I'm surprised that he didn't mention that. Do you think it was because the pilot had to turn right to get onto the base and final approach?

[@stevemadak6255]

Its like a bad movie. Where you have some hap hazard mechanic running around banging on the motors with a monkey wrench. These jokers rigged up a tube and would "blow on it" to get an 80 year old plane to start. smh rip

[@blackbirdpie217]

Had the FAA maintained a system of accountability, this alone would have mandated better maintenance. This doesn't take the responsibility away from the operator, it's just human nature to let things go if you can. However the level of incompetency at the operator level is astounding. I wouldn't leave the dock in a boat with crappy essential machinery like those mags. Keep it airworthy guys, or don't fly. Befoe you leave, tie your shoes, put gas in your car, zip up your pants, get your mags fixed, it's no different and it really is that simple.

[@aelumley]

I flew on EAA's Aluminum Overcast just a few days prior to the 909 crash, it was an incredible once in a lifetime experience, truly an amazing flight. The crew was very professional, full briefing, got to sit up front for the take off. I'm a private pilot, flew my own Champ to where the ride was, just an amazing day to fly, and to fly on such an amazing aircraft. Really made me think about what it was like for the guys flying these planes during ww2. Crazy. The 909 crash but a damper on the memory of my flight, I had hoped the cause was not anyone's fault but all along I wondered why he didn't declare an emergency and land ASAP. Thanks for the great report.

[@nickloughrey9841]

Good Analysis...........well done!...... like the way you dont pull punches !...........ex aircraft engineer...........

[@BigWheelHawaii]

I'm a Huge "Juan Brown Fan",,, But This Report Is By Far The Most Conclusive Analysis of This Tragic Event... For Me,,, It's Hard To Call This An "Accident",,, Maybe It's More Fitting In The "AFTERMATH",,, To Call It Criminal... Or At Best,,, Calling It a "Total Lack of Judgement" by The PIC... Total Mismanagement of "Airmanship",,, Gross Mismanagement of Airspeed",,, Energy,,, "Altitude",,, "Options",,, and "Crew Resources"... And "All This Happening At The Same Time",,, To a "Under-Qualified, and Under-Trained",,, "Aircraft Commander"... There's No Doubt The "Aircraft Commander" Had "Passion"... Here's a Very Dangerous Contributing Factor"... "Believing Your Own B/S,,,,"Believing What Other Pilots Say" About You,,, "Believing You Are Better Than You Really Are"... ("You're The Best",, "You're The Greatest Pilot Ever", and Then Calling Him "Mr B-17" ect ect) It's Hard To Believe That He Didn't "Call An Emergency",,, With One Engine Out,,, Decaying Airspeed and Decaying Altitude, and 10 Innocent "Civilians" Onboard... Wow,,, What a Great Report,,, Just Outstanding,,, Scott,,, All Your "Reports" Are,,,,

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks Bigwheel, I try to put the pieces together so they make sense.

[@jamespetroski1147]

Thank you Scott. As a former Navy nuke officer, safe operating culture was something drilled into us and enforced by Rickover on down with ne'er an exception. You can easily see the 909 failure trail from your analysis, and that culture allowed this trail. Real accidents are actually rather rare; we create them by shortcuts. This crash was only a matter of time, given the lack of respect for safety and procedures. Again, nice work in your analysis. It centers on the key cause(s) of the incident.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thanks James!

[@bryanh1944FBH]

I have 45 wonderful minutes in 9 oh 9 several years ago. Very glad I did it! I also talked to Mac before the flight (as he was maintaining the engines and interacting with the public). In discussion, I explained to him why radial engines are an odd number of cylinders (each bank in the case of even cylinder engines). Mac was very interested, thankful for the answer and most certainly a pleasure to talk with. Great advice was given by the Flight Engineer just before take off (I was seated in the rear area). When walking around after takeoff, he said, never grab the overhead cables to steady yourself. If you grab the cables, you are flying the airplane!

[@CrazyPetez]

Thank you for your excellent report. I also watched Juan’s video, and at my level of understanding, I thought his report was also excellent.

[@neatstuff8200]

The B18 had no single engine chart in 1956. You babied them only. they used one gallon oil per hour. ANY MORE, BIG TROUBLE AHEAD. 1000 hours in lite ice only. These are museum pieces.

[@rocketrob31]

I have been going to airshows in the UK for 40 years. Airshows are a lot safer now days due to lessons being learned. I have flown in many pleasure flights and always presume that the operators are on the ball. For the warbird community to survive they need to be squeaky clean and operate professionally or airshows and heritage flights as we know them are finished.

[@PaulieCav777]

🙏🤷‍♂️SAD,...But “Maybe” Mac’s Personal Life wasnt In Good shape either ??,...Which could have “Dire Results” & Consequences in His Disability to Maintain a Safety Conscious Work Environment Around Himself, His CoPilot, His Machine,....& His Mentality on that Day ??? Humans Being Human after all’s said & done !!😳😢🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏

[@The_Sword3]

"Safety programs tend to have an initial positive impact and then they taper off in their effectiveness" A sad testament to the history of aircraft safety.

[@warwickkinscher5986]

. . . . . In fact to the history of safety and safety management in ANY industry (railroads, heavy engineering manufacturing and construction being three in which I have had personal experience during a 45 year practicing career).

[@jonathangriffiths2499]

Risk compensation is a bitch

[@B25Mitchel-qy5kg]

20/20 from an old private pilot. You would think that a pilot (Mac RIP) with that many hours in multi-engine aircraft would have a preflight briefing with his co-pilot on an engine(s) out on take-off or climb out, plus use all the runway, (almost 10,000 ft) and already know where he could have "belly landed wheels up" in two different fields just three miles ahead. 909 did limp back on that "impossible turn", and not drop into many houses,.gotta have some luck. It's been proven that a B17 (a profile in drag) can skid to a safe landing in about 1,000 ft.

[@davidfalgout7304]

There are old pilots and bold pilots, but very, VERY few old-bold pilots!!!

[@NCLUSA]

I have nothing but respect for good pilots , (good pilots) to me a good pilot would not fly a plane that has mechanical short comings, people's lives are most important. If these older planes can't be maintained in the right way they should not be flying (that goes for all planes). I "half ass" a lot of things around my little farm, but if a gate/door falls off no one gets killed, something as important as flying through the air at a couple of hundred miles per hour should not be "Half Assed". In the end of this case the pilot seems to be the main reason the plane went down.

[@monacosfranz4202]

Very interesting explanation and summary of the NTSB report. What a tragedy. Even worse since it seems like there was plenty of opportunities to prevent it! Thanks for sharing

[@nhwilkinosn]

Seeing more... And more... Of videos like this, make me not want to set foot on a plane flying under the living history flight exemption, as much as I would LOVE a ride. But as a new pilot, these videos are incredibly eye opening, and really drive the point home

[@Bluenose352]

This can happen on any aircraft. You would have to stop flying altogether.

[@v2gbob]

How sad. What a senseless loss of life and historical equipment. I have a bunch of photos of 9oh9 from when it visited Stead Airport, north of Reno, NV, in 2014.

[@MrOramato]

1200 page report equals ridiculously long. The cause was clearly poor piloting qualifications, and performance, period. It does not take a skilled writer 1200 pages to explain.

[@kristensorensen2219]

The PIC was not qualified by my definition and everything you said proved it especially the outcome. He was what I call a cowboy. I'm not a bomber driver but I am a multi engine rated commercial, instrument rated pilot. I never got my multi on my CFIA&I only because I had no students doing multi engine training. Killing passengers is as bad as it gets!! One hell of a trail of bad practices especially maintenance! No run up is madness! I'm wondering what was so urgent to justify doing so many stupid things?! Sad waste of people and the ship too. ERAU Prescott 1980 CFIA&I ret.🕊

[@glenndower2513]

I have helped to run airshows where Colling's B-17, B-24, B-25 and P-51 were the stars. I have flown on "Nine-O-Nine" twice. I have known Mac for nearly 20 years. He was wonderfully disposed to the WWII vets in our organization and to anyone who had questions about the aircraft. In the operations offices at the airport, there is a poster with a picture of a bi-plane firmly lodged in a tree, with the following caption: "Aviation by itself is not inherently dangerous. But to an even greater degree than the sea, it is terribly unforgiving of any carelessness, incapacity or neglect." I have referred to that poster many times. I watched Juan's analysis first, and Scott, I much prefer your analysis. You have put the cookies down where the kids can get them. I mourn for the lives lost. I also mourn for damage to the reputation of the historical aircraft culture and the missed opportunities of those who will never get to experience living and flying history.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you Glenn, I appreciate that. And know that I mourn as well!

[@plopsbazinga8347]

Absolutely criminal imho. Shame on the Collings foundation

[@thurin84]

the collings foundation shody maintenance and procedures almost made it. a lot of hubris was involved in this tragedy. aside from the human tragedy of this. losing another old warbird is just heartbreaking.

[@thurin84]

@Schlomo Baconberg rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrriiiiiiiiiigggggggggghhhhhhhhtttt

[@anthonyintrieri3329]

One of the best explanations of this tragedy I've seen. Having ridden in that plane, my heart goes out to the families and friends of those lost.

[@woodrow7201]

Very compreshensive, Scott. Those passengers trusted the crew and were killed. I see that the Collins Foundation has grounded all of their air craft. That sounds like the right decision.

[@trumpsmessage7777]

Merry Christmas Scott. Thanks for all these great videos.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you TM. Merry Christmas!

[@snuffle2269]

Watched a number of videos on the 909 crash and this fills in a number of gaps and points out the gross errors. As a young boy I drew pics of a B-17 in flight and came to love them. Lived in Schweifurt and was 3rd Inf Div Engr on the former Luftwaffe base for 20 months and got the German view of the raid. Touched the Memphis Belle when she was partially covered on the Island under the "tent" in Memphis. Passed "Prestons Pride: in Tulare, CA for years on Highway 99 and so glad to hear she was restored. Sad to hear about this loss of a great airplane and now the FULL story of what really happened. Thanks. These WWII aircraft must be preserved.

[@Joe_Not_A_Fed]

Thanks for doing this, Scott. Juan has also made a couple of excellent videos breaking down the NTSB report on this accident. His perspectives are similar to yours in many respects and differ in a few...which is a graphic illustration of why CRM is so important. Both of you bring expertise and thoughtful analysis to your reports...but also unique perspectives...which gives us a clearer picture of the events which led up to this tragedy. Nobody can ever know exactly what happened in that cockpit or why it happened. Your analysis adds more important pieces to the puzzle. Thanks again.

[@FlyWirescottperdue]

Thank you Joe, I really appreciate that!

[@michaelmartinez1345]

Xlnt video... Tragic story of this plane... Like so many other aircraft accidents, and other types of accidents, the people who were operating this plane were not following procedures... No pre-flight MPA test, not setting-up & maintaining the ignition systems properly-especially on the #'s 3&4 engines, not feathering the actual problem engine, and shutting off the adjacent running engine, not declaring an emergency, not following emergency procedures as per the flight manual, lowering the landing gear much too soon, not training the flight crew members properly, circumventing the repair of known magneto problems by installing a tube to blow nitrogen into the known bad magneto interior components (very bad), just a bunch of very bad safety related errors... These people put too much effort into making $ and not enough effort into safely enabling themselves and the plane to do so... Very Sad indeed...

[@zappatx]

WOW!! The three stooges could have done a better job - this overview could be used to shock new pilots into how only THEY need to make sure they are on top of their safety and procedures and prevention training.