ACCURACY and where to find it

[@jeffcornelison888]

You are one of the best long range guys out there. You have extremely good knowledge of the hobby and you explain things in simple Laymans terms. Another awesome video👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jeff, Cheers

[@hotchihuahua1546]

You hit the nail on the head in explaining the limitations of your equipment and what it can achieve in accuracy at distance . Also the other factor , you as a shooter . Enjoy listening to your experiences and your humble presentations .

[@markandsamafterwork]

thanks Man, Cheers

[@mickroberts5166]

Accurate, down to a point and put in plain, easy to understand language. Very valuable advice. Thanks for sharing

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mick, glad you liked, Cheers

[@warrenpolidori5541]

Thanks again for another sensible video. All makes sense. It's the Indian, not the arrow.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@allanarndt3047]

I want to keep this short but want to let you know how much I enjoy listening to & watching your video's. I can shoot on my property to 300 yds.summer & 600 winter but sure envy what you are able to do. Watching & really listening to what you are saying has helped me with practice become a much better shooter for both hunting & target. Also I have been able to pass on much of what I have learned from you & help others become better shooters. Just wanted to say thank you!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Allan, very much appreciated, Cheers and all our best.

[@mickroberts5166]

Some time ago, under the influence of Mark and his videos, I abandoned never ending "ladder' testing and changed my technique from shoulder to collar bone, also from adjustable front to adjustable rear and applied 'pressure' load search. The result was going down from 1 inch to 0.5 group across the range of distances, between 300 to 900m. It works. Also minimalist cleaning helps ... I cannot believe all the scrubbing I used to do for no reason. I am Perth based ... I can only wish to have an access to properties Mark has :-)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Very glad to have helped Mick. Stay safe. Cheers and all the best

[@garrettbinley7349]

.5” groups at 900m eh?

[@williamczupryn2642]

I appreciate your advise. This is a truly humbling sport. Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@406life]

I have to say your adjustable bag base has been worth every cent! Thanks for putting out these videos Mark &Sam.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Matt, Cheers man and all the best.

[@av8rbri473]

You touched on #1; Trigger time; could not agree more; know your gun This is especially true for pistols/revolvers which are much harder to shoot/master

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man, thanks

[@JM10344]

You always bring vary good points and data to the table. See, I get so in-depth with all the fundamentals because I don't get trigger time. So when I do get trigger time, I want to have already addressed possible flaws, and when something does not perform as desired I can use process of elimination to quickly diagnose.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Joe, cheers

[@larryrichins7887]

God bless you and and your family, be safe and thank you for your videos..I Love watching them.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Larry, thanks

[@DANTHETUBEMAN]

Great advice in this one, applying consistency to everything finds accuracy, nothing extreme, and as much shooting time as you can get. THANKS, I take your advice on many things. 😊

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Dan

[@svilenp]

Another great video and very important for people with little experience! Thanks for sharing your experience with us! Thanks👍👏✌

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Svilen

[@evadevries2952]

I used to spend HOURS ladder testing, only to have my "node" open up on a hotter or cooler day. OR, find a node, only to abandon it because of low velocity. Thank you for validating an alternate approach to load development.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Your on it, glad you liked, Cheers

[@chetlockwood1491]

Thank You for the work you do on this, Your and Sam's contribution to ULR is immeasurable. I'm getting my things sorted out so I can play at this myself, I've got some big open country nearby I can get the distance, probably not as far as you but you have to start somewhere. Again Thank You, I enjoy every video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Chet, glad you like the video, Cheers and all the best.

[@cornbreadburgess1950]

Great video Mark and Sam 👍, just now watching this one and I found out case capacity is a big thing for me lol,Iam on a 308 kick now and boy howdy the case capacity is all over the place and have pulled a few oops projectiles, but thanks to you guys this 58 yr old is getting to be a better re loader.Thanks much 👍❤️.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Awesome, thanks Man

[@rogueaussie9299]

Another great info session Mark!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Man

[@Vamike9]

I can really appreciate your honesty and experience.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man, cheers

[@millerslaw]

Great tips man, any advice is always appreciated but I love the different angles you present.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Jason

[@vincef5832]

Very practical rationales. I’ve been wondering if searching for the best node would wear out a barrel. Tuners seem to cut to the chase. But I’m not experienced enough to determine if that would even be true. I surmise a reasonable balance between, shooting, working up loads, proper equipment and good shooting technique might be the most practical. Mark’s input helps put one’s pondering in perspective. Thanks, I appreciate your thoughts, they are very helpful. It’s funny, you often manage to address and clarify a lot of thoughts I consider about shooting. So no you are not rambling on or talking too much. It’s actually extraordinary depth and practical input I often get from your evaluations . Thanks again!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Vince, glad you liked, cheers

[@oddursigurdsson3046]

Yes I know I have already watched this - just took me a few months to understand the actual info - thank you kindly for your great support to us out here :)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Oddur, glad you like em.

[@MrRanggong]

Nice job at explaining where accuracy comes from. So many PRS or FClass shooters on YT focus all the time on the minutia. And I get that that's where they are at the moment. But for new or old shooters trying to learn or improve on the basics this was perfect. Its refreshing that someone finally did a Big Picture talk. Subscribed.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers and thank you.

[@Steve-dx5jq]

Another Great Video, I agree trigger time is Very Important as is being consistent.. Also the bag rider arrived and it is a Wonderful tool, Love it !!!! Cheers Mate.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Steve, glad you like the bag rider too, Cheers

[@chrysanthosanastasiades9368]

Man is great I can keep up, I have watched ALL videos since 7 years ago ,the info that one can be benefited from is huge ,even for people like me that just shoot a .177 air rifle(as per our laws) .......👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks man, glad you liked, and great if has helped, Cheers

[@chrysanthosanastasiades9368]

@@markandsamafterwork a great deal of help sir/madam I LIKE TO SHOOT but I like also to understand and push limits ,trying to find answer you very well know that is a journey, long one,the way you approach the matter applies to everyone ,I am not a professional ,I am a captain by profession ,with 26 months of military training that has nothing to do with this kind of shooting ,I like your mentality behind the matter......👍

[@celebmrk9]

...and having a good spotter...say no more. What a team!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@zl1booker]

YOU AND YOUR WIFE ARE GEMS, AND YOU'RE APPRECIATED BY ME. THANKS FOR THE INFORMATION PROVIDED TO THE SPORT

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Randall, Cheers

[@stockbulll]

Excellent information! I appreciate the real world knowledge. 👍👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@andrewmckinley6571]

Best video I have watched on the subject, thank you

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Andrew, Cheers

[@lonniefransen2946]

I really enjoy this video, I am a hunter, I shoot more paper then hunting, but I do to make that one shot on the feild.Never chased lands, never worried about SDs. I am just looking for that group to make those few shots in the field, good loading technique and good material is number one. Thanks for great vidios!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Lonnie, thanks

[@johnmcneil9518]

Great video Mark. I appreciate the explanation of what goes into making a rifle shoot accurately. I used to have the belief that people that used front and rear rests were taking the challenge out of shooting. Over the last few years I've certainly come to realize that this couldn't be further from the truth. Your explanation is great and easy to understand. Thanks for the video.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks John, Cheers

[@danielmastrangelo3778]

I haven't started shooting yet, waiting for license and PTA. What I got from this video is- Consistency, consistency and more consistency!!! (If you keep doing the same thing, you'll get the same result) Cheers Mark and Sam, loving all your videos. Would be great to see you at K2M shaking up the Americans 🤣

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, glad you liked, Cheers

[@bryanohalloran9001]

Excellent explanation and very down to earth, Good one !

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Bryan, Cheers

[@jcarne1015]

Great video, Mark.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@robertweeks2039]

a good rifle, scope and ammunition is important but being able to handle your rifle and get the trigger time to bring it all together is the most important.Great lesson here.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Rob

[@DerickPelser]

Thanks Mark! This video helps putting things into perspective.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@oddursigurdsson3046]

Thank you Sir for a great explanation and for sharing your experience and thoughts; invaluable for all of us out there :)

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Oddur, cheers

[@LtFrankDrebbin]

Very good video. Learning to shoot spring piston air rifles accurately reinforces a lot of what you are talking about there too. Lots of flexi stuff happening between shooter and rifle while the pellet travels down the barrel with them. Shooting a springer has made me a better shooter for sure.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Yep, your on it, Cheers

[@williamchristy3063]

GREAT VIDEO! The easiest way I have for finding my accuracy rifle range for hunting is; After my rifle has been sighted in for 200 yard zero, I then take four 1 gallon milk jugs, filled with water, and set them out at 300, 400 and 500 yards. Taking up my field hunting shooting position, I shoot one round at each jug using my scopes corresponding yardage pins. Checking the jugs for a hit, each jug hit is within my range of fire. The jug missed is beyond my personal accuracy skill. This is how I know how far I can accurately kill an animal.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Great to hear Will, Cheers

[@gc641]

Do a reloading video mark, I like where you going with es and sd, I have been taught to go after low numbers and tune to group from there. I have found with higher number I tend to get better groups but I have abandoned those loads.🤔

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@virgilpalmer2427]

New subscriber, i appreciate your wisdom..

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man

[@pietereksteen1057]

Hi Mark ! Thnx for a great vid. Since I've "got away" from the 100m and focusing on the stuff you explained my shooting improved a lot. I'll do one 18 round OCW , send it to Dan Newberry for analysis and from there on just shooting Long Range and ELR...and learning to read the WIND. Regard from South Africa and stay save ! NS : We as a fast developing ELR Shooting community would love a visit from you for some ELR classes ! Cheers and stay safe

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Pieter, who knows in years to come, glad you like, cheers

[@gingrichconstruction7242]

Thanks again for your ramblings Mark. I appreciate the fact that you made a point to recognize the importance Sam has in accomplishing the accuracy that you have as a team. Good team work is paramount to success in your field of "work". Once again I find it very interesting that our view of reloading is quite similar. Well I would like to say that I have found it beneficial to look for nodes I would define nodes as a charge weight that produces lower ES then average. Preference is when a number of charge weights have the same velocity. (One of my 223 *3.6-*4.0 gr average the same velocity no matter which load I load I can load a mix of those charge weights and there will be no difference in accuracy yes very odd!) Once I find a node (with constant reloading practices less then 30 rounds per powder) I have found generally that the powder acts more temperature stable. I then change my seating depth 0.030 at a time till I have a round tight group. If it's a 0.6" group thats ok. If using group size for testing and I could find a 0.3" group I will always be better off with using the load that I arrived at with the method described as it will always be more consistent across different conditions even though not as accurate at 100. I have tested this theory on numerous rifles and with multiple bullets and powders and it has held true so far of course I'm sure there is an exception somewhere. I'm with you all the way the shooter and rifle set up has a far bigger impact on real life accuracy and like you noted the ultimate accuracy in no where near as important as consistency! Now I should clarify that my approach is totally geared toward PRS style competition not long range like you are so very different. Cheers from Canada!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, glad you liked and thanks for your info, Cheers

[@refaiabdeen5943]

Cheers Mate!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@Ben-ry1py]

This video is fascinating. It sounds like you're saying that you tune yourself to each gun and load, and possibly use a particular muzzle device and other accessories instead of tuning the load. Do you experiment with how much pressure to grip and where you apply that pressure and find what works for a particular load? I know this may be an oversimplification, but it does sound like this is what you're aluding to. I just found your channel and am absolutely loving it. Subbed 🙏

[@markandsamafterwork]

awesome, thanks Ben, and yes all about what the rifle needs, Cheers

[@clintmontana7942]

Great stuff!! Most don’t believe that internal ballistics effect POI. They are the only true science deniers I’ve ever met. They think the bullet leaves before recoil, or that there is somehow perfect equilibrium as the bullet spins up to 200,000rpm while a powder charge pressurizes the chamber and barrel to 60,000 pounds per square inch. A car spinning at 200,000rpm on tires inflated to 60,000 psi is hard to imagine, so I guess ballistics are hard to also visualize. An analogy for Absorbing recoil is like jumping over a wide stream from a solid rock versus launching from a marshy bank. The same effort will produce different trajectory, and mushy is less predictable.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers Clint

[@guerrierweg]

Bad timing. I’ve got to walk the dog now! Something to look forward to during lockdown... 👍💥

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, Cheers

[@stephanc7192]

Great video

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@W5rr2nG]

Speaking of Horsepower... are you going to do anymore videos on cars and/or tuning? I’ve got a question for you on tuning. And also, I like what you do with pressure. I go up in half grain intervals for pressure sakes lol. When pressure is up there but not scary, I group them on paper. If It shoots to let’s half MOA, I put on a chrono. Take that chrono data to develop a rough DOPE, then I go out and do BC validation. Btw.. the New 109 gr Berger is a nice bullet. I’m Impressed with my tested BC. You’re shooting the 115 and I don’t think I can get enough speed to run them with my 1-8, but enjoying the videos!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Man, we have another channel with our workshop videos, but I do not offer online tech advice on that subject sorry, glad you like the videos, Cheers

[@danielleriley2796]

With that node finding by powder amount it’s a bit silly. The sim of it is to have the muzzle exit at a node so it does not move. So from a materials perspective this node is based on the speed of sound in the barrel and the length of the barrel. AND NOTHING ELSE. So now get that barrel hot and the speed of sound changes a fair bit so your node has moved and the muzzle exit is now off a node and moving. So a cold bore is different to a hot bore. So how do you shoot your rifle, hot or cold mostly? So tuning the nodes is great if you heat your barrel up to normal temp for you and then run your tuning ammo for groups. Or if you shoot just a few shots from a cold bore then you run your tuning ammo only through you cold barrel and then wait for it to cool and do the next set. Now the big WTF. If you hand load accurately then if your barrel is at temp, for you, then the bullet will always exit at the same time in the vibration sequence so the muzzle will always be pointing in the same direction even if that’s not perfectly straight ahead.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@richardfitzsimmons5244]

Thank You

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@scottrussell6717]

I have been reloading and shooting for 25 years.. the biggest gain I got was by neck sizing

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@markhoulding1938]

Good explanation 👍

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@robertmagnstrom6088]

You're a wise man :-)!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@chrismiller6792]

I’ve always wondered if you load at a low elevation Sea level and high elevation same load . What difference would you see. ? Or are they not air tight ?

[@markandsamafterwork]

The load (internal ballistics) will perform the same, but the bullet (external ballistics) will perform different, less air pressure at higher elevations means less drop and less wind deflection, a little better for accuracy at elevation, Cheers

[@thomasa5619]

Talking about guns that behave weird but shoot surprisingly well, an example is the thin barrel in a No3/SMLE, that gets worse when you free float it

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@robjohnson6747]

I’m a terrible shot , just awful ! I can’t wait for the seminar wink wink 😁

[@markandsamafterwork]

Maybe in the next life, lol, Cheers

[@brianschmunk9490]

intristing

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@dinoc.5537]

Nice talk for such a broad complex discussion. Experienced shooters tend to forget to slow things down for the beginners and that makes it tough on them. In case it helps, in the discussion on the complexity of load development and the relationship to the gun/shooter system, there are powder/case/primer/bullet combinations that can give an excellent ignition behavior that gives an excellent SD/ES, but... At the same time, that particular speed, even though it is very repeatable, does not align to the better harmonic for the rest of the system. This isn't rare and can be very frustrating for the inexperienced load developer. This is where previous experience and tenacity is a prerequisite. Without a good background from say something like air or rimfire small bore, combined with disciplined loading practice, it would be difficult to know where to start looking and they lack the confidence to experiment and make changes to find a better accuracy node. Tenacity counts for as much as anything else. Don't give up. Using a mentor to get up the reloading learning curve is efficient. Learning to shoot body supported with an air gun or rimfire smallbore is efficient. Expecting to read one or two magazines, watch a few videos, and then buy your way into proficiency in highpower rifle is a good way to get frustrated. Keep up the good work!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Dino, glad you liked and thanks for your input, stay safe out there, Cheers

[@shermankearns200]

Great video I am a math science guy and I get what you were saying. I think a lot like you. You are much more handsome but just once as a joke throw in the reverse Coriolis effect someday when you just want to mess with us. All kidding aside I really enjoy your videos and great shutout to your partner ine of the best spotters on earth. Stay safe and great shooting.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Sherman and lol, Cheers

[@paulcox9366]

How did shooters shoot 2 mile before chronographs and ballsitic data? Was it just trial and error or was there another way before technology caught up? Thanks

[@markandsamafterwork]

Same place those apps get their base data, recorded data from many previous shots... Cheers

[@250-25x]

Hi guys, Your way of attaining accuracy is the same as the small bore competition world. In say 22lr we are limited by the ammo since you cannot reload, you must tweak your rig to the available rounds for accuracy. Granted, with every new barrel the search for the perfect lot of ammo begins, then it's back to the barrel tuner, rest, ammo sorting, or not....etc. Also like you eluded to, very rarely is the best ammo choice the one with the most velocity. Most champions use subsonic pistol speed rounds vs say mini mags or velocitor type choices. Anyway, have fun! G>

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@philippefrater2000]

And that's why i go for Factory ammo. Fiocchi 50 grs FMJHP in 222 Rem and Sellier&Bellot 100 grs Soft Point for my 243. They're cheap and they shoot well. No brainer for me, no reloading. If factory ammo work for your guns, why would you go the hard way? That's my point of view. I'll for sure reload soon, but actually, no need for it at all... I'm always largely under a MOA at any distances. I buy that any days. 🖖🏻🇫🇷😎🇫🇷🤪🇫🇷🖖🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@ALNOLHM]

👍🏻👍🏻

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@stevencline1041]

It was rambly, but good. Thanks.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@michaelreed1380]

Trigger time is important, quality trigger time is even more important. I've seen people who go out and dump a ton of rounds and and all the fancy gear and they still can't hit the broad side of a barn even while locked inside because they pay no attention to the fundamentals of shooting, nor are they interested in listening to any advice to get better. I've also seen people with bare bones, inexpensive stock gear shoot very well because they pay attention to what they are doing, focus and are willing to listen. Well said Mark, have a great day and stay healthy!

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks Mick, you too, stay well, Cheers

[@johnblythe8229]

Interesting. I’m aware of your focus on pressure (over the years) but I can’t see or understand how you can repeat tight patterns when the harmonics of the barrel may or may not be pitching your barrel and the Bullet exiting the barrels at different points. I’m a data guy and I do look for nodes using the Satterlee methodology. Has proven to be successful but I have found one rifle where it will put three bullets in the same hole (100yds) and then throw shots 4 & 5 repeatably. On that particular rifle with a 26” bartlein barrel - 6CM @ 3000fps the barrel heats and I have to monitor the temp continuously during f-class competitions. All comes down to both trigger time and time management. On another bench rest rifle 6.5 284 Norma with a 30 in barrel the groups stay tight for 10-15 shots depending on outside temps @ 2800 fps. All things be said, it does come down to trigger time and intimately know the ends and outs in a rifle and how it behaves. Great content

[@markandsamafterwork]

Thanks John, well basics work on controlling and absorbing shock, hence reducing all influence of vibrations and harmonics, giving overall consistency to all conditions, well at least to the level as the the results we get.... Stay safe, Cheers and all the best.

[@johnblythe8229]

MarkandSam AfterWork In your last response are you referring to keeping the barrel in alignment to shoulder or collar bone as in straight linear line? You guys do a great job keeping the barrel from rising both via muzzle break and back butt pad height adjustments

[@markandsamafterwork]

Well, yes that can help, but it is in everything, chassis/stock, pre load, body form, muzzle brake, scope height, front support (top and bottom, butt pad composition, barrel weight, rifle balance, the list goes on, hope that makes some sense, Cheers

[@johnblythe8229]

MarkandSam AfterWork Thanks Mark.

[@billybobsledhead]

🥇🎯✌️

[@markandsamafterwork]

Cheers

[@trevorkolmatycki4042]

I think he's trying to tell us to pick pepper grains out of fly shit less... and shoot more.

[@markandsamafterwork]

Lol, cheers

[@randlerichardson5826]

I tell people that a rifle is like a guitar it has to be tuned just like a guitar. Two guns that are identical more than likely won’t shoot the same load the same. It’s hard to see from people that don’t know anything about reloading

[@markandsamafterwork]

Hi Randle, Cheers

[@brandoncarey2329]

To all the people in comments below who say I shoot this caliber or bullet type. Who cares. Each riffle is different. Keep your comments in your head.!!! You obviously didn't listen to what he was saying

[@markandsamafterwork]

lol, Cheers

[@buttugly3783]

that finger looks like a near miss ooouuuucccch

[@markandsamafterwork]

Mechanic, Cheers