ACELC 2022 Panel Discussion

[@pjwg]

One thing we seem to loose sight is that catechises is really life long process. I would like to see a rite of first communion replace confirmation all together and let confirmands/adults continue some kind of life-long catechises.

[@arlenehensley6753]

Wow! Your grandma is certainly going to heaven with her good works!

[@rantingcullinarian]

We need a book: “I wrote that” by The Rev. Peter Bender.

[@judithtaylor6713]

There’s a snake in every paradise. Stand guard. Keep watch.

[@Zorlig]

I love the passion at minute 44, but the qualification isn't knowing the 6 chief parts and wanting the sacrament.

[@Zorlig]

@@tcschenks It is used as a minimum standard, which I think if one examines the source text will see that is the improper use if it. People would likely find that it says that Luther would refuse to commune people who refused to learn the catechism, not that he would commune everyone who learned it.

[@carlvehse]

Lutherans understand that early communion (that is, communion before confirmation) is simply open communion. The Lutheran confessional doctrine and practice of the Lord’s Supper does not set a specific age at which catechesis and confirmation occur. However, for the edification of the Church, and specifically within the churches belonging to the Missouri Synod, some typical common age may be established. Communing catechumens, either children or adults, before they have given, in their confirmation, public witness to their confession is contrary to the Lutheran doctrine of close(d) communion. Close(d) communion involves a profession of confessional unity in faith. Those who have publicly professed a different (or no) confession are not to be communed. According to the guidelines for the constitution of any Missouri Synod congregation, all communicant members of the congregation are required to confess their unconditional acceptance of the doctrine of the Lutheran Church (i.e., taken from Holy Scripture and exposited in the Book of Concord of 1580) to be faithful and true.

[@doctorquestian]

I was taught that it was the power of the Holy Spirit that does the work at a baptism. And come to think of it, I've never witnessed an adult EVER being baptized during a church service. I remember our pastor, during a sermon about 4 years ago, asked by a show of hands, "Who here remembers their baptisms?" Of course, no one raised their hand, because everyone there was an infant when that happened. hmmmmm...... (not the answer he sought). I think that's odd. In addition, I don't remember anywhere reading in scripture where Jesus or any of his disciples asked anyone to recite anything before baptizing anyone. I think the Book of Acts would have been written quite a bit differently if they had. This group of Lutheran administrator pastors seems quite pious. This whole thing has a feeling of Catholicism. And that part about passing an examination sounds almost like getting pulled over by a traffic officer. "Show me your papers!" Never once did I hear anything about the power of the Holy Spirit, nor did I see any prayer during this assembly. I find that disturbing. Why didn't anyone present mention "A Simple Way to Pray (...for Master Peter the Barber) 1535·by Dr Martin Luther? This group of men appears to think that they are better than the other members of the congregation, as though they are judges. When did all this legalism start happening? whoa! And I don't mean to sound work here but, how come there are never any black Lutheran ministers? It's a little bit like watching the Andy Griffith Show. I mean by now, one would think that there would have been enough Black people that would have naturally come into congregations and sent some of their sons at least to seminary school in St. Louis and become a Lutheran pastor. What's up with that?

[@sodality3970]

NO , this generation needs to be taught the things we weren't taught . The biblical distinction between men and women needs to be taught . How about teaching how the Bible says "women should be keepers at home" and the men provide for them and their children .

[@edwardluth7740]

You have to purge the Synod of Harrison and the good ole boys club. My church is becoming apostate. Disgusting.

[@Zorlig]

Someone should pull that reference from minute 14:00 . It isn't "christian questions and their answers" as that happens after examination.

[@jeffmeier1663]

Catechesis is great, but adding more requirements to communion than Jesus's first one makes no sense.

[@guyparker1749]

Noway..i cannt begin..to beleive what I'm hearing 😢,the law ,bs

[@s.k.6616]

It is time to cut loose the Concordia undergraduate schools and refocus on homes.

[@Zorlig]

A good point was made at 33, there is no effort to teach men how to be men, women how to be women. That is dissapointing because it shows most of what is promoted here to be... not serious. Even the idea of such a thing required asking the quesiton twice.

[@nathanaelhahn]

There is effort there, in fact, as described by several on the panel. I've had the opportunity to work with or observe three of the schools represented on the panel: the students have ample learning in how to be men, women, spouses, parents, etc., both by direct teaching and by example. Don't accuse these men of being frivolous. I assure you, that's the last thing they are.

[@Zorlig]

@@nathanaelhahn "ample" is relative. Training men in this age is not a task that can be achieved in a few years "by example", but one that requires intensive deprogramming and it did not look like those on the panel understood it, much less teach practice it.

[@nathanaelhahn]

@@Zorlig Training men is not deprogramming (what a heartless term). It's a raising up that occurs throughout the time a child grows up, primarily in the home, but also in the extension of the home into school. I agree, it takes a lot longer than a few years. Like I said, I've seen it taught well in these schools (of course, it also takes a good family to do it-- a school alone can't accomplish the training of men). To disagree with someone who has seen it done at these schools and who has seen the fruits of that labor is to irrationally hold onto ignorance.

[@Zorlig]

@@nathanaelhahn I have no doubt what you say is true, but I question to what standard it is done. To the removal of feminism and replacement with the scriptural teaching, correctly expounded in Luthers many essays on marriage? Nothing I heard here came close to that standard, or even correctly recognized the problem, so it seems unlikely that what you say is true in light of proper standards. More likely just chivalry is taught.

[@nathanaelhahn]

@@Zorlig Not just chivalry is taught. The standard you outlined seems to describe what is taught, though Luther's works may not be taught explicitly (I'm not sure what he says in them). I would imagine the reason the panelists seemed a bit dumbfounded is that the question presupposed that manhood and womanhood require a "curriculum" or a "class" to be taught well, which is an absurd idea.

[@LXX-Mercedes]

Every parent is capable of doing home schooling? This pastor doesn't know the world we're living in

[@guyparker1749]

And it was accepted..? Your about 15 cents sort..

[@arlenehensley6753]

Why is all this on U-Tube?