Across Atlantic Ice

[@JimmyMac717]

I’ve read critiques of this hypothesis, but found them unconvincing. The lack of Clovis points in Siberia and similar (identical) points from France and Spain is powerful evidence for the hypothesis.

[@stevegarcia3731]

Correct. The late Nobel Physics Prize winner Richard Feynman has a video on YT about the scientific method. In it he is teaching a class on that. At one point he says in no uncertain terms that if your experimental evidence or experience does not agree with your "guess" (the premise you are testing), then your premise is WRONG. So your POV as stated here is pretty much in agreement with the scientific method. In this case, if the points in eastern Siberia are not the same as Clovis, then the link between Clovis points and Siberia is broken. It's WRONG. You are correct.

[@judd0112]

Sometimes when the answer is too easy they think it can’t be correct.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

One issue is that the points don't actually match. Clovis is fluted, Solutrean is not. That means the hafting is also different. On the other hand I'm sure people went back and forth to all continents, and all it takes is one teacher.

[@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking]

@@nmarbletoe8210 I think the point is - Solutrean is _ancestral_ to Clovis tech. In a new place, in new conditions - they improved it. But like all human tech, you can see a clear evolution. Solutrean is like Clovis. (But nothing else in N America is!) Example: Stone Tools = Writing. The Egyptians create the alphabet. But it's primitive. Pictographic. Phoenicians come along, and turn their own pictograms into similar-but-more-advanced brush strokes. (Bull's head becomes "A". You can see it, turn the A upside down, see the horns?) Just as the Egyptians had a great idea, and an improvement to writing itself, Phoenician simplification meant everyone can write - not just an artist. Like all Middle Eastern area writing, you have similarities. But Phoenician is nothing like Mayan, or Chinese. Clovis points - are as different from other NA points they just can't be related. Saying the Clovis invented a new-and-improved Solutrean - without ever seeing Solutrean - is actually the bold claim that seems far-fetched.

[@stevegarcia3731]

@@KathrynsWorldWildfireTracking With the proviso that chert and flint DICTATE what flaking processes and results can be used. So, is there some aspect of Clovis or Solutrean that - by putzing or experimenting - cannot be reproduced randomly? I think Clovis is not a culture but a technology passed around from settlement to settlement. But what ENDED Solutrean? What ENDED Clovis? Later points had almost nothing in common - but how could Clovis tech be spread all over the US east of the Mississippi and then ALL of them end at the YDB?

[@artifactsantlersoh]

I have such respect for this man, and even more respect for the Smithsonian for giving him the platform to talk about this. One day when we officially dredge up the continental shelf on the Atlantic, I believe that we will have all of the evidence that we need to link early pre paleo peoples to Europe.

[@frankparrish5657]

How to flute a Clovis Point without breaking it: Take two slats of oak, shaped like they are cut out of a yard stick 10 to 12cm long. Pitch glue two buttons of wood to one end of each, four buttons total. wrap the tip of your Clovis preform in a one inch strip of buckskin/leather twice around. Wrap the two boards onto the point with the tip sandwiched flat and the buttons at the base, with a piece of string or cordage. Flute with an antler billet, works every time. Good luck.

[@gary_stavropoulos]

@@artifactsantlersoh at least you admit currently you don’t have the evidence. Do you believe it because the evidence might be out there?

[@gustavbabic5004]

So although the Inuits traveled all the way from their native homeland in Siberia, around the Arctic Circle to Greenland, in sealskin boats, most anthropologists are adamant that there is no way that ancient peoples from Europe could have used similar technologies to reach the East Coast of North America. Absolutely amazing.

[@ioanlightoller4934]

Gustave Babic It is amazing, isn't it? That people from Asia could have crossed the Bering Land Bridge, but the Solutreans couldn't take their boats along the edge of the ice, hauling out onto it when necessary? That Inuits could take their craft and make it all the way from Siberia to Greenland, but no way the Solutreans couldn't have done something similar? Someone in modern times was known to have made it across the North Atlantic in a 9 foot craft. The trip would have been quite difficult, but certainly not impossible. The Solutrean boats would have been perfectly adequate for crossing the Atlantic. I get so tired of the PC nonsense. I honor both groups since crossing the Bering Land Bridge wouldn't have been any stroll through a garden. But it wasn't all Asians or all Europeans--when and if we find out the whole story, it will turn out to be complicated.

[@bufordmaddogtannen5164]

Racist

[@stevegarcia3731]

Actually, Dennis Stanford is the big pusher of the ice edge from Europe idea, and HE used to go in those sealskin boats with Inuits. He even shows photos of his times up there.

[@backwoods3795]

@@bufordmaddogtannen5164 might as well be everything else is

[@stevegarcia3731]

I am pretty sure both things happened. Thanks for pointing that out. The Arctic coastline was pretty darned WE at the time. It was all one coastline. The last mammoth in NA was at about the Alaska-Yukon border near the Arctic Ocean (about 10 kya).

[@frankparrish5657]

I found a perfect Solutrian Point back in 2016 in the Rocky Mountains, and at the time was sad it wasn't Clovis. Now, I love it. It is still up at 11,300 feet in the mountains, where nobody will get to it. 14cm long 2 to 3 inches wide, perfect Solutrian bipointed shape, purple quartzite, one cm thick at most. Extremely nice overshot flaking, and sitting with four others on the same site....wish Dennis were still here.

[@komisar3937]

Dude, don't let anyone take that thing from you. Protect that thing like Plutonium. Good on ya.

[@frankparrish5657]

@@komisar3937 It still lies on the ground in the wilderness, but I have a life size sketch.

[@slappy8941]

You really should take pictures and get someone involved.

[@frankparrish5657]

@@slappy8941 I submitted a full archaeological report to the Uintah National Forest as the "Twelve Elk Site" and as far as I know, they "put it on the shelf and gave it a number". I was a lot more enthusiastic as it extended the history of that area substantially.

[@forrestw.6704]

No, you didn’t

[@Hambone3773]

The X2 type missing from Asia is a strong indicator that some minority group came across the Atlantic. Where did it come from otherwise?

[@wnchstrman]

There is no plausible explanation for this whatsoever. Solutrean skeptics cite vagueries such as "well there is some in Asia" but completely overlook that what they claim is possible is not, due to an small Asia link thousands of miles from nowhere in central Asia and is very unlikely to have originated from there. Meanwhile there is a well known connection to Europe, particularly early European lineages of hunter gatherers pre-IndoEuropean farmers.

[@Verdunveteran]

Well, thats an easy one to answer actually: it could have come with the European colonization of the Americas post 1492. It could even have come as early as shortly after 1000. The issue with DNA is that you need accurately dated human remains containing DNA to date it backwards in time. However what little DNA from human remains from the Clovis culture that has been discovered has disproven Stanfords theory. A DNA study in 2014, 2 years after Standford and Bradley first published their work "Across Atlantic Ice", from human remains discovered in the Clovis Anzick 1 grave disproved the DNA link with Europe and the Clovis people. In 2011 archeological finds in the USA proved the presence of humans older than the Clovis. Something Standford and Bradley sems to have chosen to ignore. Further arheological finds have secured the fact that the Clovis culture was not the first human culture in America. A study from 2008 into the last glacial maximum also found that the ice edge across the Atlantic does not fit with Standford and Bradleys theory. Kieran Westley and Justin Dix wh performed this study said: "it is clear from the paleoceanographic and paleo-environmental data that the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) North Atlantic does not fit the descriptions provided by the proponents of the Solutrean Atlantic Hypothesis. Although ice use and sea mammal hunting may have been important in other contexts, in this instance, the conditions militate against an ice-edge-following, maritime-adapted European population reaching the Americas.

[@williamduffy1227]

That was the Lost 13th tribe of Israel... 😂😂

[@gary_stavropoulos]

@@Hambone3773 it is interesting that they don’t have other European markers, but share one that is found in west Asia.

[@harrygraff4149]

A fascinating book with rich documentation.

[@truthseeker3977]

Outstanding information. Just ordered the book. Thanks!

[@robertodebeers2551]

In 766, disgruntled Welshmen rode logs across the Atlantic ocean and started some gambling casinos in what is now New Jersey. Everyone knows this.

[@harrietharlow9929]

LOL

[@williamduffy1227]

Eh! OH! I live in New Jersey! .. It was Eye-talians that brought da gamblin' over.... 😂😂

[@robertodebeers2551]

@@williamduffy1227 Maybe we're both right. If those ancient people drug their knuckles when they walked, they were from Wales. 🤣🤣

[@slappy8941]

Wow you're so edgy and clever. I bet all the other kids in your special education class think you're just the coolest!

[@tyloradams4741]

I think this an awesome video thank you four making it. I wish there was more on this subject

[@stevegarcia3731]

Oh, there is plenty out there on this subject. Search on KZbin, google it. And search on Goggle Scholar. Some papers you can read on Scholar and some cost good money to read. But you can find more than enough to keep your curiosity whetted.

[@karladavison5572]

I'm 100% Northwest European and my DNA test says one of my strongest ancient matches is Clovis Montana 12.5ky. I don't see how that's possible if this isn't true.

[@troybonner91]

Mine as well, although I do have about 2% Native American (according to my nuclear DNA). I am closer related to Clovis Montana than even some Europeans, according to Gedmatch results -- yet not as much related to Kennewick USA. If you compare the stone structures in New England to Celtic structures, you'll see an incredible similarity as well; these structures seem to match the findings of Clovis arrow heads as well. There are oral traditions all over the east coast within First People's tribes that talk about light-skinned, blue or green eyed tribes. I think the problem is people assume this is a "racist" argument because they feel white people are trying to deny them their history. I don't think there's any doubt that the Asian peoples had a profound impact on the Americas. But it's obviously not 100% Asian, as was once thought. If a Native American were to turn out to be 90% Asian-descent 10% European-descent or 80-20, etc. would that be so terrible? In my mind it's racist for them to make such a big deal out of that. None of this takes away from the genocides on their culture in modern times.

[@cinnamonstar808]

Where did Pocahontas died? Exactly. There is no 100% European anything. ________ For example the Queen that built Buckingham palace is a black moor. So the Royal family isn't 100% European. Neither is King James. Again it's redacted education system.

[@ericschmuecker348]

@@cinnamonstar808.

[@gustavbabic5004]

@@cinnamonstar808 LOLLLLLLLLL

[@stevegarcia3731]

That is pretty weird. No Clovis people have ever been found. Only the points. Did they test your DNA vs the DNA of a spear point?

[@chrisbillington3341]

Bravo Sir!

[@Jagdtyger2A]

Crossing the Atlantic or the Pacific in small boats is a relatively easy process. In spite of what a Troll keeps arguing in support of the use of the ice free corridor between thw Cordaleria and Laurentide glaciers

[@will7its]

The sea level was 350 feet lower, so no boats needed.

[@Jagdtyger2A]

@@will7its Most of that exposed former sea bed would be covered in ice, leaving only small patches of exposed land. There is also the fact that people in a dugout canoe can travel farther in a day, than they can travel on foot while hunting and gathering

[@peterhooper3391]

There is nothing in our human past to suggest that people could not have come to the Americas from all over. It's a common conceit of our time to think our ancestors weren't capable of sustained long distance travel. There is nothing in evidence of migration from western Eurasia to detract from migration out of Siberia.

[@harrietharlow9929]

It's ridiculous to think they couldn't. There is an urge, a curiousity that has existed in every species from homo erctus to homo sapiens that pushes us to explore to see what is over that next hill...I can't see that at least some Soutreans didn't feel that call...

[@threeriversforge1997]

It's all politics. There's a very strong hatred of Europe in the sciences, and culture at large. Just recently, a team of experts was attacked for the great crime of documenting the oldest hominid footprints yet found because they were found on the north side of the Mediterranean, not on the African continent. Even though the experts were world-renowned, daring to make such a claim was heresy.

[@harrietharlow9929]

@@threeriversforge1997 It's insane, isn't it?

[@stevegarcia3731]

You are mistblikely correct. Genetically, the native American Indians do tie to Asian haplotypes - but how early did tgat happen? Are those haplotypes common in the east at the earliest dates? I dunno just now. I looked at Europe, and got a real shock. It seems that late Pleistocene Y-DNA and MtDNA genetics show that the earliest human cuktures in Europe disappeared between about 22,000 to 13,000, and then after a gap, others came into Europe from the Levant and Ukraine regions. The cave painters of 40,000 y.a. disappeared, and VERY little of their genetics is in modern Europeans. And something similar happened in N. America, too. Both continents had a gap after 12,800 y.a. for about 1200-1300 years before new arrivals entered and became the basis for today's populations.

[@boxsterman77]

Hear. Hear. And they were every bit as smart and resourceful as we are. Our only advantage is the accumulated knowledge and technologies.

[@gary_stavropoulos]

1:55 “a bit older” that is so grossly misleading I will call that man a liar.

[@slappy8941]

😂😂😂 okay buddy

[@gary_stavropoulos]

@@slappy8941 the solutreans were 8.000 years before Clovis. So in order for this hypothesis to be right they had to not leave their tools in Europe and not make new no ones in that style for thousands of years and then leave zero genetic evidence in the population that followed. It is simpler that two different groups had similar stone tools. When people misrepresent facts it usually means they know it is wrong.

[@susanohnhaus611]

There is a lot of racial/political infighting. The present American Indians want to be the original and only settlers to the exclusion of all others. This lack of acceptance of other theoretical possibilities should be ignored by the scientific community. While perhaps completely unrelated I want to point out the Windover site in Florida. Originally, the forensics people thought they were dealing with Caucasian skulls. The original DNA said the burials were Caucasian. Fast forward to improved DNA and son-of-a-gun but the remains are American Indian with ties to eastern Asians, but the Windover people are extinct not related to any existing American Indian tribes. I wish I could believe that non-scientific correctness had no part in these final evaluations, but I will keep an open mind.

[@runingblackbear]

We have not come from anywhere we have all ways been here from the beginning

[@patrioticanarchist991]

How?

[@philthycat1408]

‘Out of America’.

[@matthewwillis4892]

I am curios as to when humankind started thinking about his past and ancestors. When did we acquire intellect?

[@will7its]

Day 1....

[@brianwilliams4112]

Update please.

[@JAG8691]

Dennis Stanford passed away April 2019.

[@spencerme3486]

Spoiler alert- new DNA evidence has pretty much buried the solutrean hypothesis

[@patrickleigh1523]

Living on the edge of the ice - what else? A lot of food in the sea; people live in boats all the time; none of us would be comfortable (none of us), but we tend to forget how hardy a human would need to be to survive then. Most didn't make it to adulthood.... but somehow, as a species, we muddled through. Now we have motorboats, GPS, and at least 6 or 7 different ways to stay warm. Plus, our kids mostly live to adulthood. Yet, with the price of eggs (thanks Obama), we still complain.

[@jackscott6551]

I found a site you would be interested in here outside of front royal va.. there are millions of points flakes and knives along a cliff overlooking the river..It looks like a lot of Indians were here at one time

[@johnhaug1747]

He passed away on April 24, 2019 (aged 75)

[@howardfreeland5595]

Close to the Thunderbird site in Warren Co.?

[@AustinKoleCarlisle]

yeah but are they clovis?

[@jackscott6551]

yes..for sure@@AustinKoleCarlisle

[@howardfreeland5595]

Up there,probably pre-Clovis.@@AustinKoleCarlisle

[@stevegarcia3731]

I have followed Prof. Stanford's work a long time, and he certainly seems to be on the right trail all that time. I would draw attention to the X haplotype map arrow that points up to the Orkneys, just north of Scotland. The idea that the ice came across to Cantabria all the way from N America is perhaps true. But I subscribe to a more northern ice edge. One that links the Orkneys to Iceland, to Greenland, and then to N America. I just can't see sea ice being continuous across the entire Atlantic. Sea ice does best when close in to shore. With a 3,000 mile crossing, I am skeptical of ice shelfs that far out. 22,000 years ago was certainly still the LGM. Sea levels didn't begin rising till after 20,000 years ago. But that sea level rise meant less ice for the crossing. So 23,000-22,000 seems an ideal time for following the ice edge.

[@captainflint8412]

I am from Scotland , we have a.highly glaciated and river eroded landscape, the only projectile points.we find here are standard levallois and blade core up until the mesolithic where microblade tec was adopted , then bifacial tec appears in the Neolithic .. There are one or two known solutrean sites in england but the ice would have covered Scotland miles thick during the solutrean time period I believe , not that one or two brave hunters never traversed the glacier wall one day for.kicks but I doubt it was a viable route unless by sea when ice thawed during a relatively warm period

[@stevegarcia3731]

@@captainflint8412 I am working on a project that touches on Wales' and Scotland's 'glacial' terrain. I have noticed that some of the glacial evidence is higher up slopes. And glaciers always - ALWAYS - ride in the bottoms of valleys - like streams and rivers. So I am trying to figure out what I am seeing. it doesn't all make sense.

[@stevegarcia3731]

One aspect of this fight against the Solutrean Hypothesis is similar to the Clovis First doctrine, which stifled archaeology for over 50 years, Here it could be called the Beringia First Doctrine. The same kind of knee jerk dictated responses to new thinking. It disgusts me, to be honest. So many careers were ruined by Clovis First, just by people reporting what they found and then were blackballed out of the discipline that they had started into with high hopes about. They are trying to ruin Stanford in the same manner and preclude any young Stanford acolytes from gaining a foothold in academia.

[@forestdwellerresearch6593]

If you are looking at sea ice for the LGM then keep one thing in mind. There were some major volcanic winters during the Solutrean period. Sea ice had much greater extent and volume than any model can show you during those events. The so called "ice bridge" if they even needed that was certainly there.

[@closertohome-b7m]

Wow.....facinating stuff. Really seems logical

[@j.b.4340]

@5:08, understand that those North Africans were like the Mechta Afalou man, not sub Saharan Africans.

[@chucko.2678]

Both mitochondrial DNA and other genes are sometimes found at their highest frequencies in widely separated populations. At times it can be quite a mystery how this could have occurred. But in this case, geneticists do not have far to look for the answer. This video does not mention the race of Ancient North Eurasians who contributed DNA to both Europeans and Native Americans, probably because most such genetic advances have only come about in the 11 years since the video was made. They now have genomes of a number of modern and ancient populations.

[@loganv0410]

Given that many of the Atlantic coastal tribes have been destroyed as social units and genetically nearly destroyed, tracing such DNA will be nearly impossible.

[@clintonreisig]

Why is this information being censored? canceled? deleted?

[@davestagner]

It’s not being censored. It’s just new, and it will take some time for the paleoanthropology community to adjust.

[@robynpruitt1116]

My grandmother told us stories of coming here on a turtle, mentioned the Susquehannah River and said she was Iroquois Indian. Her family had to flee for their lives because they were being hunted. In order to protect themselves, they learned French, fled to a French colony and passed as French until after my Great Grandfather passed away, then she spoke of being Indian all of the time! I need to find out if I am connected to this 26,000 year old French woman found in America. I can feel in my heart that she is my ancestor! I am now empowered to restore my Grandmother's honor.

[@oxon8871]

Have we looked at markers specifically from Western Hunter Gatherer (WGH) populations, now that the genetic history of Europe is coming clearer. Or are x haplogroups more closely linked to Anatolian farmers?

[@JosephPercente]

The sea is a highway not a barrier. Heyerdahl.

[@patrickleigh1523]

At the current rate of improvements in technology, some high-tech architectural tools may come along to help us more or less definitavely answer this. We may be excavating some underwater sites off the east coast.

[@darlulittledeer3738]

really interesting.

[@ThomasSmith-os4zc]

What happened to Dennis Stanford?

[@BrillPappin]

Has anyone looked into north american language groups? If I remember correctly, there are two main groups that are not related to each other.

[@gradyratliff2034]

Truth....shall...make.....you...free.

[@engineersteveo9886]

At that time all of these various humans were not substantially different

[@rondias6625]

Meadowcroft Rock Shelter in western Pennsylvania..more proof of this

[@howardfreeland5595]

There are also 3 pre-Clovis in Virginia.

[@chrysgeorge8050]

An arm of the, Pittsburgh, *Senator John Heinz History Center.* Pre-Clovis point fragments at the nearby creek basin, Solutrean technology, 19,000 years-before present hearthfire charcoal in the rockshelter paleoarchaeology dig (burnt basket). Cross Creek, drains into the Ohio River: the Penna. and panhandle-WV state line. Brown hair, and eyes. The blue eyes and blonde hair trait-mutation within Europe is further in the future; though at this time a sandy blonde-green eyes is in north Greece : ) a la Alexander the Great.

[@azelkhntr4992]

I never bought the Bering Land Sea Bridge. Also, we must realize that the warm Gulf current wasn't in existence during the ice ages. Travellers via boats from Europe would not have had to battle the Gulf Stream currents.

[@abberepair8288]

Many generations would have lived on the ice sheet. It was where the food was.

[@GM-sc3pt]

You can see by looking at Native American faces, they are part European. Although a lot have the high cheekbones of Eastern Asia, they have European tall noses and round eyes. Some of them even have Roman noses.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

That could be due to a common ancestor of Europeans and Native Americans, the ancient Siberians.

[@johnmay1109]

Perhaps Thor Heyerdahl is vindicated. Kon Tiki, and Aku Aku.

[@aaroniouse]

So, basically Solutrian came from Ancient Egyptians.

[@bobmarch8275]

The Atlantic ocean was a lot narrow and low back then do to sea floor spreading, it would have been a peace cake for the Solutreans

[@stevegarcia3731]

NOPE. Wrong. The Atlantic was only narrowed by about 100 miles on each side. And it is like 3,000 miles across. 200 miles less does not equal "a lot narrower".

[@bufordmaddogtannen5164]

@@stevegarcia3731 he said the ice covered the way through Greenland making the distance far shorter.. pay attention dummy

[@American-Plague]

@@bufordmaddogtannen5164 He didn't say anything about any ice. He said "DO TO SEA FLOOR SPREADING". Pay attention dummy.

[@lloydfortner1510]

I think they did it

[@gionoite6157]

The worst part is that this comes from the Smithsonian

[@howardfreeland5595]

They hide many things!

[@stevegarcia3731]

I do have a question about why Solutreans or associated groups would bring Clovis points to N America. Those points are literally so physically large that you can't really use them against anything but very large animals. Would they be useful along the ice edge against sea lions or walruses? I don't know the answer to that question. I THINK the answer would be yes, but do not know for sure. If NOT, then there would be no reason on earth to take the technology with them. I DO think they DID bring the Solutrean knapping tech with them, though. My opinion doesn't govern, but that gets my vote.

[@wnchstrman]

When you consider the solutrean technology as weapons for hunting marine mammals (harpoons) it makes perfect sense. And that is exactly what they were doing out on the sea ice.

[@stevegarcia3731]

@@wnchstrman I would not disagree with that. Using them to cross along the edge of the ice sheet, Solutrean points would have been PERFECT. And then a slight upgrade somewhere between France and America or after, sounds amazingly correct. 👍👍

[@brantdanger]

The clovis points are not those giant Solutrean points. The smaller clovis points were created later, and were in wide spread use in the Americas.

[@American-Plague]

What are you talking about? The size of the points has nothing to do with anything. It's the WAY in which they are made. You can make them whatever size you want.

[@stevegarcia3731]

@@brantdanger From what I know of Clovis points, they are damned big. It seems probable that the technology of flint knapping was shared over wide areas, and that there did not have to be one culture associated with them. My opinion but based on a decent knowledge base. I do side with Dennis Stanford. And that the proliferation in the eastern USA is a significant piece of evidence that has been more or less blown off by the wider academic community.

[@nicklenco7311]

It seems a lot easier to believe that the date we have on people coming from Asia was off by 4-5 thousand years than to believe the first people came from Europe. Basing the European theory primarily on a method of chipping rock indicates a disbelief that two groups of people, both interested in making sharp edges, and both using the same rocks (the two areas once were connected) would both learn to carve in a similar way. Given that there are not really other ways of chip carving stone, and that the Clovis points and European points differ in fairly significant ways (did they change how they made tools on the way across the Atlantic), it seems easier for me to believe that the tool Making of the Clovis people is just similar to that of early Europeans and they those similarities that do exist are just because it is the sand material for the same purpose. The "convenience" that this might undermine the narrative that Native people were the first people in America is a lot to stomach as well. Not that it makes any difference in any case but people will think it does. I have seen several critiques of this "Atlantic" theory and they seem more convincing than the alternative. The hole theory of Atlantic crossing appears to rely on a LOT of cherry picking with the available data as well as a strong desire to chose the more complicated theory over a simpler one. I am surprised that the Smithsonian lends itself to what appears to be nonsense.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

the date is off by way more than that. There is an accepted site at 23kya (White Sands) and very good sites at 37kya and 130kya. We have barely begun to figure out the full story.

[@matthewgauthier7251]

Thanks. Makes sense. However good luck flying in the face of the current dogma. Though my algorithm fed me this 11 year old video ,I still see the westward migration advocates are fringe.

[@lesjones5684]

Did you lose this video yet 😂😂😂

[@spencerme3486]

Sexy, but found to be wrong on almost every point… so to speak

[@moemuggy4971]

As much as I would like to believe this, it has been thoroughly debunked with recent genetic studies. It would definitely explain a lot though. We do indeed see the same Stone technology across the Atlantic. My guess is there was a trade route setup across the North Atlantic. There are too many similarities to be a coincidence.

[@wnchstrman]

What nonsense makes you believe genetic studies have "debunked" this theory? There is ZERO evidence of the X haplogroup having any connection to the other groups from Asia. There are plenty of "debunked" hypotheses, particularly Clovis First as well as the interglacial corridor hypothesis. Solutrian is the only plausible hypothesis for the existence of pre-Clovis and Clovis technology, as there is no link to Asia for any technology that would be contemporary. Successive wave after wave of Asian migration after the Younger Dryas seems to account for most native populations, but NOT all of them. The remnants of the Solutrian-Clovis people still exist in primarily Northeastern Canada.

[@JAG8691]

Genetic studies haven't Debunked it merely moved in more to the fringe of Academic debate. This " Debunked " concept has been absolute Venom for the Scientific Method as we have witnessed in the last 2 years.

[@brantdanger]

A genetic study has nothing to do with finding spear points on the east coast, that match up with spear points in Europe, almost 10,000 years before the ice free corridor opened for Siberians. Only an antiwhite would ignore the carefully gathered evidence. Don't be antiwhite.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

@@JAG8691 well said. a good, testable hypothesis can be right or wrong without having any bunk in it either way.

[@forestdwellerresearch6593]

Genetic testing cannot establish anything like that. It can at best only establish that Solutrean lineage did not survive in America. But it can't even do that for lack of material. It cannot even figure out the European lineages where there are so many more samples available. Saying genetic research has debunked the Solutrean Hypothesis is utter nonsense.

[@marting2003]

this is outdated and mostly untrue

[@AustinKoleCarlisle]

because feelings?

[@harrietharlow9929]

@@AustinKoleCarlisle That's my guess.

[@nmarbletoe8210]

@@harrietharlow9929 because of a lack of DNA support, and a lack of solutrean or clovis tech in America between 13kya - 22kya afaik. to be clear, it's a good hypothesis that could still be true. but it is not yet well supported

[@NomeCultJoe]

tracing lineages and migration routes based off of such rudimentary flaking techniques (whether it has a channel flake or not) is ridiculous...I implore you Solutrean/European fanatics to look at genomic studies to help inform you about the peopling of the americas

[@AustinKoleCarlisle]

we have the genetic evidence too, called Haplogroup X.

[@spencerme3486]

X2a X2g aren’t Europe though and appear to be an entirely new world mutation. Kennewick man carries a basal X2a. Haplotype X just shows that Europeans and North Americans had some of the same ancestors. They’re cousins, not descendants. So no, you don’t have the DNA evidence

[@threeriversforge1997]

That flaking technology is about as far from "rudimentary" as you can get. That was the highest level of technological advancement of the time, and took serious skill to produce. As for the DNA evidence, that doesn't actually work like you might wish because it can only tell you about the people you have sample DNA from. There is zero reason to believe that any Europeans tribes would breed with the Indian tribes they met. They might have, but even that wouldn't show up unless you happened to test the DNA from one of their ancestors. This was thousands of years ago, so it's entirely possible - and likely - that any ancestors were wiped out by disease or war.... assuming there were ancestors in the first place. What we do know is that the Cherokee have an origin story that talks about the "Moon Eye'd People" who they encountered and did battle with when the Cherokee moved into the southeastern US. As they describe the Moon Eye'd People, they certainly sound European. Could be a complete fake, but it's a story the Cherokee tell and hold in high regard as part of their oral tradition. They don't mention marrying and breeding with them, only hunting and warring against them, eventually either driving them out or killing them off. Right now, the only evidence we have is the stone tool technology left behind. As noted in the vid, the ancestral trail of stone tool technology does not match what is known to have been used throughout Asia and Alaska. Micro-lithic blades glued into bone or wood shafts is an entirely different thought process and doesn't lead to making large points such as the Clovis or Folsom. Even if that did happen, though, you'd have to wonder why so many of the Clovis points are found east of the Mississippi rather than up and along the projected travel routes across the Bering land bridge. Why does all the evidence point to an origin in Europe, and the only stone points that are similar to the Clovis originate in Europe?