Charging a Heat Pump at Start up or in the Winter Time! What you need to Know!

This is how to charge a new R-410A heat pump system in the middle of winter. An overview of the superheat process is explained and examined to see if you can use it to charge since the liquid is going through a piston in heat pump mode. Refrigerant weights per lineal foot of lineset are discussed for liquid and vapor sizes.
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[@acservicetechchannel]

Our Inverter Mini Split Resources: Mini Split Book on Our Website- www.acservicetech.com/mini-split-book Mini Split Paperback on Amazon- amzn.to/3ytHJSs Mini Split Paperback on TruTech Tools- www.trutechtools.com/BooksGuides?aff=8 Mini Split E-Book on Google- play.google.com/store/books/details?id=HN-iEAAAQBAJ Mini Split E-Book on Apple- books.apple.com/us/book/id6445178399 Our Single Speed and Two Speed Air Conditioning Resources: My Paperback and E-Book: www.acservicetech.com/the-book My Paperback: www.amazon.com/shop/acservicetech Read the book reviews on Amazon! Check out our new Articles at www.acservicetech.com/articles Support the Channel by purchasing tools through Tru Tech Tools! Use this link www.trutechtools.com/?Aff=8 Save 8% at checkout using code "acservicetech" Tool List- www.amazon.com/shop/acservicetech Support- www.patreon.com/acservicetech For those that are looking for the tools used in the videos: (Linked Below) Here is the Link for the Yellow Jacket Refrigerant Manifold Gauge Set used in the videos- amzn.to/2aenwTq Here is a link to Refrigerant hoses with valves used in the videos- amzn.to/2aBumVI Here is a link to the UEI DL389 Multimeter used in the videos- amzn.to/2xAdaJf Here is a link to the Imperial 535-C Kwik Charge Vaporizer for Charging Refrigerant- amzn.to/2wFHtBW Here is the link to the Fieldpiece ST4 Dual Temp Meter- amzn.to/2wc1ME3 Here is a link to the Digital Refrigerant Scale used in the videos- amzn.to/2b9oXYl Here is a link for RectorSeal Bubble Gas Leak Detector amzn.to/2ckWACn Other tool links can be found in the video description section. ACSERVICETECH is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon. Check out other videos on the HVACR topics of interest at- kzbin.info/door/OZR-1IqsAer9wzlvFgb4mAplaylists?view_as=public If you want to support the ACSERVICETECH Channel and receive more HVAC content, check out www.Patreon.com/acservicetech

[@Garfield_Campbell]

Brother, thank you for this video. People don't understand how much science is behind all this. Hats off.

[@mrd4292]

You are so good teaching AC . I am so graceful.. Tks

[@jimbola77]

I'm very impressed with your work acservicetech!!!! I drive OTR I watch your work over and over I wish I had your knowledge, OTR is very tiring! and I love working with my hand's! thank you so much for sharing! people I know won't share they act like it is rocket science! but when I show what I have learned over the year's from you they are stunned.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Well thank you very much Jimbola77. I always appreciate your comments, that's cool about their response!

[@Brnstrmr]

This isn't how to charge in the winter. It's how much to add when changing line lengths.

[@fishlifeknives7429]

He said basically you can't do it. If you were listening

[@Wibob636]

@@fishlifeknives7429yea well it wasn’t basic enough.

[@fishlifeknives7429]

@@Wibob636 lol

[@jimbola77]

excellent presentation!!!!

[@acservicetechchannel]

+jimbola77 Thanks!

[@matthewedwardsnyder]

Should we be adding the refrigerant in liquid or vapor state during the winter time and should we be adding it in to the discharge line or into the true suction line?

[@matthewedwardsnyder]

My understanding is that the heat pump it in winter everything is backwards so my assumption is we should be charging the system with Vapor into the discharge line because we are charging into the condenser which is now the evaporator because it’s winter

[@davidashcom6087]

Sir you cannot check the superheat of that unit like that. Your probe must be on an actual suction line. The pipe you are attached to has no refrigerant flowing through it, it is for checking pressure only.

[@tyl8ter]

do you mean coming off the compressor?

[@schpanker]

I see that you are connected to the common port. Is it possible to charge the system through the common port in cooling mode? I'm thinking of using stubby gauges instead of hoses to save refrigerant when checking the system and would like to hook up the charging hose to the common port when needed.

[@richgallagher4160]

So how do you check the charge on a heat pump in winter

[@pedrocastano6410]

Nobody knows

[@heatncool]

Replaced evaporator coil. After nitrogen leak test and pulling vaccum to around 500 microns. I charged it up according to nameplate. 11 lb 4 oz. Added 5 oz extra for long lines. It is split heat pump. I checked delta t on cooling. 18. On heating it took a while to heat up but got to 17 in 7 minutes or so. It went smoothly and I said my goodbyes to the customer and that id be out in 5 minutes. When I get back it's still running on heat and pressure are 500 or tetard on low and 400 on high. (Reverse refrigerant flow ) my heart sank at first. But I see i needed to use the true suction port on heating instead of the liquid line? Although sometimes I checked before it read the same? Also ambient was 65

[@acservicetechchannel]

After when you charge in the exact amount needed, you can check the charge like normal with subcooling (if equipment has a txv) if you use a charging jacket or another way to reduce airflow across the condensor if it is below 70 degrees outside. You would target the saturated temp of the condensor to 95 before checking the charge. I want to do a video on that soon, thanks

[@jimmyung3212]

Great inform thank you!!!

[@acservicetechchannel]

Thank you!

[@vukknezevic4258]

I have this in my place,i have hot water in the sink but only mild in the tub? Help me! Thanks

[@phillipjoy8191]

In heat mode could you hook the high side gauge to the liquid line instead of the discharge line? Great videos

[@acservicetechchannel]

The liquid line in heat mode won't give you much if that is where the piston is so it will be a low pressure liquid before phase changing and superheating. It depends if the piston is before or after. We usually are on the large vapor line and true suction for heat mode. Thanks

[@acservicetechchannel]

Check this one out and note where the piston often is in answer to your question, thanks- kzbin.info/www/bejne/haSViICHrayGrdU

[@mark.r8900]

So in cooling mode, red hose to liquid line and blue hose to suction line as usual. But in heat mode now red hose to 3/4 line where does blue hose go? In both modes your low side always need to be higher than 32F correct? Thanks.

[@waltherherrera67]

Excelente

[@larsonhomeinspection9932]

How often do you have to adjust the TXV or adjust the charge based on superheat on a new installation?

[@acservicetechchannel]

We shouldn't have to go and adjust an ac system TXV if it was correctly set originally. Most TXV's for AC don't even have an adjustment stem on the bottom. If there is high superheat and low vapor pressure, coupled with normal to high subcooling then that would indicate a liquid line restriction such as a TXV. It could also be a strainer screen or the filter drier. I go into detail explaining troubleshooting scenarios as well as charging procedures in my book which is available at the website, www.acservicetech.com thanks!

[@seanmcdermott416]

Would you consider doing a lesson on the 30 + rule when using the PT Chart when measuring head pressure on a low SEER unit ? I've heard of it before but never had to apply it in the field yet . Thanks again BroOski

[@acservicetechchannel]

I would not advise applying it. It will get you close and some older factory reps were teaching it for a while. Just maintain using superheat and subcooling to get exact amounts for efficiency and compressor safety. I may do a video on that for next summer. Maybe you can remind me when we get closer. I try to stick with the season we are in as much as possible, thanks Sean!

[@caru3257]

Newer unit have that number lowered.

[@waynemiles7027]

What are some rule of thumbs when servicing old heat pumps in winter mode to check the charge? Pressures should be? Indoor temp. Split? Anything would be helpful, thanks.

[@IshockO]

Wayne Miles I got the same questions :(

[@MrOhiousa]

My understanding is that since the outdoor unit is the evaporator in the heating mode, and the txv controls the superheat, and most of the manufactures design the txv for 10 to 15 degrees of superheat, if you are in that range. you are in good shape, temperature split between 20 to 30 is good in the indoor coil, of course airflow is very important. i will not worry too much about pressure. since pressure and temperature follow each other that number is going to be dependant on indoor and outdoor temperature

[@caru3257]

Read the literature that came with the unit. Most of the times, instructions to charge in heat mode are outlined.

[@junkyardjedi7706]

If the temp indoors is above 70 you can check the sub cool in a/c mode if you restrict the air flow at the condensor. He made a video on how to do this.

[@acelookrenos611]

Hi Craig Iv got a quick question There is a mini split system r410a on heating mode the discharge line goes up 690 psig and actual temperature of 62 Celsius. There is no other valve to connect my hose to except vapor(discharge on heating) question is that 690psig isn't it a little higher than normal? What's wrong with unit then?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Hey Ace, it sounds high to me too. Is it possible it is overcharged? Did you check it in max cool and find a superheat of 0 to 5 degrees of superheat? Thanks!

[@acelookrenos611]

@@acservicetechchannel The superheat was about 8 degree Celsius as we are in Australia and now it's winter time but not that much cold. Saturation about 5 degree Celsius Suction line temp about 15 16 Celsius After reversing it from heat to cool

[@acelookrenos611]

By the way I mean 690 kpa not psi in my first message

[@joshuameadows5574]

You have the liquid line hose on the suction line because thats now your discharge line because your in heat mode. So in effect that now somewhat turns into you liquid line in cooling mode. Am i somewhat understanding it? Do you always hook up your guages like that in heat mode.

[@acservicetechchannel]

Yes that is the way we hook up in heat mode. the red gauge is hooked to the discharge vapor but in cooling this would be low pressure vapor. The small liquid line will remain liquid but it is just the direction in which it is going. Check this refrigerant cycle with flow video --- kzbin.info/www/bejne/haSViICHrayGrdU --- I will be making one like this for while it is in heat mode as well

[@joshuameadows5574]

thanks man for all the help

[@acservicetechchannel]

No prob!

[@joshuameadows5574]

Hey ac service tech ive been watching a lot of your videos and i would like to thank you for all the time that you put into your videos it helps clarify a lot of the basics. Do you know when youll be making the video on the cycle in heat mode so i can watch out for it?

[@israelquintanilla2784]

have you tried using the fieldpiece charging blanket ? would like to see a video how that works

[@acservicetechchannel]

I was thinking of making a video in low outdoor temps at some point. I just arrived home from installing a tankless combi boiler unit for the last 13 hours but at some point I would like to do a video like that. Thanks

[@JohnstonPettigrew]

alright!!!!

[@drmikeosgood]

you miss the point of charging by sub cooling method!!

[@es27co21]

Would low Freon make the heat pump short cycle in heating mode ?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Only if the unit was shutting off the outdoor unit due to a low pressure switch in the vapor refrigerant line, thanks

[@christopheblock8561]

Hey brother, great channel! Very professional and informative. In a situation where we are unsure of line set length can we use discharge temp on a TXV unit to determine charge pressures in wintertime? If so, do you have a video or recommended procedure?

[@acservicetechchannel]

Unfortunately we cannot because of the varying amount of refrigerant in the accumulator and the varying temp outside. A different outdoor temp will lead to varying discharge gas heat which will lead to varying heat transfer on the evap coil even when we have a roughly constant 63-73 degree temp value inside the building that you are rejecting into. You are going to have to guess the distance if you don't know the best you can. Some companies have come out with the charging bag that you put over the out door unit but that won't be right on either. Cooling mode drains most of the accumulator. I recommend that heat pumps be checked for any leakage during fall so that if there is a leak it is a large one that needs to be fixed and then you can weigh back in. Of course it is harder if something is not serviced and then doesn't seem to heat in the winter. Start really paying attention to your supply minus return indoor conditioned air temps on different outdoor degree days at customers places so you can feel confident if another system is working properly depending on seer, cfm, coil life and then check it for exacts when it is 65-70 degrees outside in spring. I hope this helps a little bit!

[@christopheblock8561]

Man you are one of the best (in every sense of the word) youtubers out there! Thanks for doing what you do.

[@daviddebord7236]

Greetings! I Literally ran in to this same problem (The Wailing Gerbil like noise), with one of my Customers: kzbin.info/www/bejne/oXywgYOiZZdmfLM With the exception of the Noise, there are no other Complaints. The unit is heating the home satisfactorily in the heat pump mode. The HP is a Goodman GSH130421E, with 20ft lineset & a "All Style" ASUM 42 Coil that Goodman & Lute Supply of Cinti., Ohio "Certified" as "Matching". I installed this system 7 years ago, & the only problems were the Compressor needing a "Hard-start kit" (2 years ago), & a TXV that failed in July 2017. The System ran, with no problems up to approx. Mid November, when the "Gerbil getting strangled" noise began to infrequently appear in the Cooling & Heating mode. I'm going back to the Job tomorrow, & intend to to Trouble-shoot the System, but now another "Unbelievable" situation has arose, ....For some reason Goodman Tech is telling me that Checking for Sub-cooling will not work!?!?!?! I asked "Tyler" what he was talking about, & he really couldn't give me an explanation (WTH????), & he wants me to call him from the Job site. I'm thinking that this "Wailing noise" is coming from the Internal Check valve of the TXV, & I was wondering if You have ever run across something like this? Also, can you think of any reason why, Checking Sub-cooling, in the heating Mode, of this Heat Pump will not work, as "Goodman Tech" is saying?

[@acservicetechchannel]

That is correct that you need to check subcooling in cooling mode only because otherwise, you don't know how much refrigerant is in the accumulator. In cooling it is drained. If it is below 65 degrees then you would need to limit outdoor unit airflow with a charging jacket to check cooling. When the internal pressure relief is not sealing there will be higher than normal vapor pressure in cooling mode. Thanks David!

[@CHOMAHOMA]

Good, but I am looking for a real example. Someone actually performing the process.

[@SR-jz9wn]

good information, but a total fail titling the context of the video. You neither charged nor started the heat pump. Down voted.

[@mychoclabwinston]

High side one on the wrong port,

[@acservicetechchannel]

This is in heat mode so the large vapor is the discharge gas. The liquid line is the subcooled liquid from the indoor coil.

[@SuperSincere1]

@@acservicetechchannel you still wouldn't hook up the gauges like that. The red will still go on the liquid side and you would put thr blue on your true suction port

[@acservicetechchannel]

Hey Curtis, I would still turn the unit on in cooling mode and charge any extra refrigerant into the vapor service port. This is because this will enter the accumulator before entering the compressor. If you charge any liquid into the true suction port, it will immediately enter the compressor. You have to be extremely slow if you charge any refrigerant into that port. R-22 since it is a single component refrigerant can be charged in as a gas into that port though, thanks!

[@acservicetechchannel]

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