SHŌGUN Clip - Blackthorne Draws A Map of the World (2024)

[@Blee48]

The recognition Hiroyuki Sanada is getting in roles is awesome.

[@MrPibb23x]

Because HE'S awesome

[@abramswee]

way overdued

[@emayex8934]

i mean he's played pretty much any japanese guy in mainstream hollywood in the past decade so hes definitely recognised.

[@BaneRain]

​@@emayex8934 yeah but hes always being overshadowed

[@BrumBrumBryn]

It's been more than 20 years since his amazing performance in The Last Samurai, more than overdue that he get's so many great roles.

[@joshuacollins9346]

That little smirk at the end really carries a lot of impact for such a tiny gesture.

[@Kjleed13]

I think in the book he openly laughs. I’m glad people caught on to it.

[@donstrader]

@@Kjleed13 I was really disappointed that they changed the context of the "unless I win" line from the book. Paraphrasing but in the book version Blackthorn was explaining the relationship between the Dutch and Spain at the time. Toranaga said something along the lines of "there is nothing that excuses a vasal, (Dutch) for rising up against their King (Spain). Blackthorn replied with "Unless I win" and Toranaga laughed and said "Yes Anjin thats the one time". Exact wording is wrong but I think I got the spirit of the exchange. was some great foreshadowing and brief glimpse into Toranaga's true thinking

[@ayanithtalreign]

@@donstrader History is written by the victors. Every civilization in history has understood this. Toranaga, especially who Toranaga was based on, lived this history.

[@timothydavidcurp]

@@ayanithtalreign "History is written by the victors" is a wonderful cliche - except it isn't always so... Where did we get the "Lost Cause" mythology and all the Confederate monuments in the US (or for that matter the trash talking of the Treaty of Versailles the Germans started in 1919)? B/c sometimes, for complicated reasons, the losers get to write their version .

[@muslimbother622]

​@@timothydavidcurpOnly survivors get to write their own history, even if they lose.

[@DadBooom]

I love seeing Hiroyuki Senada getting so much recognition. He's been one of the most talented actors in films for so many years.

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

When he said, "unless I win", I have no doubt Toranaga thought, "that's a man I must bring into my ranks."

[@duncan-xg9sh]

Whoever wrote this adaptation absolutely ruined the whole point of this scene. In the original book, Blackthorne tells Toranaga that Holland is rebelling against occupying Spanish rule, and Toranaga says "There is no excuse for rebellion." Blackthorne replies "There are serious mitigating circumstances" to which Toranaga says "There are no mitigating circumstances for rebellion". When Blackthorne says "Unless you win", Toranaga bursts out laughing and says "You named the one exception". It's arguably the most significant and memorable dialogue in the entire book for a number of reasons, and there was zero reason to change it like this.

[@Indeciferable]

@@duncan-xg9sh Except look at how many people still love this scene.

[@zekeyeager1458]

@@Indeciferable how many people didnt read the book...

[@Indeciferable]

@@zekeyeager1458 That hardly matters. You're trying to tell people they're wrong for liking it because you liked it more in the book. Both can be interesting and tense but they're different mediums and have different constraints. End of the day this was a great scene and didn't "ruin the whole point."

[@duncan-xg9sh]

@@Indeciferable Sure, and you could rewrite Shakespeare's plays in modern prose and some people will love them, especially if they haven't read the original, but you've discarded everything that makes them great literature. I'm fully aware that screen adaptations require significant changes, but in the example at hand the dialogue has been changed for no good reason, and a great deal of critical nuance has been thrown away. If you have read the book, you will know that this is literally the moment that Toranaga binds Blackthorne to himself, and the reference to rebellion is absolutely central to this. If you haven't read the book then you aren't qualified to comment.

[@robertgreer4296]

Lord Toranaga's smile after Blackthorne says, "Unless I win" says it all.

[@AbAb-th5qe]

As does Blackthorne's "he who dares, wins" facial expression. A rarefied thing.

[@Aurik-Kal-Durin]

_"Did he really say 'belongs'...?"_ Chills.

[@Klovaneer]

Yeah, not the best language in the circumstances!

[@Nonsense010688]

@@Klovaneer its was for him. He wanted them to hate the Portuguese.

[@vk-eg3ro]

​@@Nonsense010688Really?🤔 I heard it's a good show.

[@peterbach1126]

@@Klovaneer On the contrary

[@Wasev]

​@vk-eg3ro it's an amazing show.

[@nccamsc]

Treaty of Tordesillas, 1494 and Treaty of Zaragoza, 1529. The latter put Japan in Portugal’s half of the world. “70 years ago…” refers to the Zaragoza treaty, because the events in the series are happening in 1600 and Blackthorne is based on English sea pilot William Adams. Interesting fact: Portugal’s “half” was 13% larger as it got 191 degrees and Spain got 169 degrees. Science wasn’t advanced enough for completely accurate measurements and that benefited the Portuguese when the line in the Pacific Ocean was drawn.

[@BrazFencil]

Wow. I remember the treaty of tordesillas in school. Had no idea this is what it was. Because I wasn’t paying attention. I knew I was right. I’ve learned more from a video and comments 🤘

[@CaseNumber00]

I remember being taught this in school as well, didnt remember the name of the treaty thou. This recollection to actual human history no doubt flew over a lot of viewers heads. Its masterful to incorporate this history into this Japanese fictional story. Often times you can just look toward history to inspire your stories.

[@SusaVile]

One interesting point is how some part of Brasil remained in the portuguese sphere. Historians debate if this was intentional, as Vasco da Gama had sailed to India but made an interesting detour, almost discovering Brasil, and only after his voyage was the treaty signed. Pedro Alvares Cabral officialy discovered it in 1500, but there are several interesting points to note about his discovery. He was not that well rewarded on what should have been great news, and he was not as far from the coast as Vasco da Gama was, the treaty purposefully mentioning enough miles to allow that in the sphere of Portugal...

[@DJSamsonofficial]

@@BrazFencil you didnt learn more here than in school. you werent paying attention...

[@BrazFencil]

@@DJSamsonofficial exactly

[@wojodyjowski]

Certified "NAH, I'D WIN" moment...

[@budowniczypylonow7026]

NAH I'D ↑→↓↓↓

[@LoveMaskedBandits]

Correction: Unless I win.

[@SourBogBubble]

now i see why it's a 10/10 rating.

[@petermcardle6127]

I like to think that Toratnoga saw a bit of oda nobunaga in him when he said "unless I win" because facing down an enemy that outnumbered, you and still believe that you can win is definitely something that oda nobunaga would say

[@Indeciferable]

He also probably saw a bit of himself in that moment. Remember Toranaga is essentially being held captive and facing death at this point. He too was outnumbered.

[@DarkFenix2k5]

@@Indeciferable Yup. He sees another man whom fortune has conspired against to throw into an impossibly bleak situation, but who then turns around and says "fuck this, *I* decide my fate".

[@Cryptonymicus]

Sounds like a line lifted from the original Shogun (1980) where Blackthorn replied "Unless I win" to Toranaga saying there was no justification for rebelling against ones lord. Which wasn't in the scene where Blackthorn draws a map of the world.

[@daddylongleg-zx9wz]

True, and in fact also did accomplish! Oda was the bad ass

[@I_SuperHiro_I]

Very cool

[@davidcooke8005]

"They have you surrounded." - Toranaga "Then I have them right where I want them." - Blackthorne

[@carlosherrera1050]

At the time, Portugal and Spain were ruled by a single king, Philip III of Spain of the house of Habsburg. Therefore, the territory divided in the Treaty of Zaragoza belonged (theoretically) to the same king.

[@DeusVultGamer]

I was confused until I realized this, because England and Portugal are bound by Treaty of Windsor as the world's longest lasting political alliance. It was only nullified during the period in which the crowns were united under Spain.

[@Krul6]

And nobody took the treaty serious besides Spain and Portugal. This scene is just bad history. Real shogun would shrug his shoulders.

[@LevisH21]

​@@DeusVultGamer the "alliance" between Portugal and England is exaggerated. that deal was more of a non-aggression pact. "just keep your distance and I will mine" type of deal. it isn't like Portugal and England cooperated or formed some type of military joint army to fight a common enemy or whatever. or the royal families of Portugal and England did marry eachother. so no, the pact was indeed good for both but it sure as hell wasn't an alliance.

[@AwoudeX]

And then the Dutch revolted and 50 years later the 30 years war erupted and saw the decline of Spain to what it is now. The Dutch formed and reformed their army to create an answer against the powerful Spanish Tercio. After that there no longer was any reason to fear it, because the Dutch outshined the Spanish in military capability considering equal numbers. Shouldn't have limited our trade, posed unreasonable taxes on one of the richer areas in your domain and then target us some more because we were Protestant, then again, tolerance never was a Catholic thing.

[@jirkazalabak1514]

@@Krul6 I mean, he is trying to get the Japanese to break up with the Portuguese, so it makes sense for him to exaggerate a bit.

[@benclough7784]

After the final episode, the sly smile after Blackthorne says ‘unless I win’ means so much more. It was the moment Toronaga realised they were fighting the different battles with the same mentality.

[@jaybandu6976]

They are doing justice to this iconic book by Clavell. Fantastic acting all around. Amazing sets and costume. Fighting is accurate. FX hit gold again!

[@rettbull9100]

I haven't read the book, yet, and haven't seen the show. But if this clip is any indication, am probably going to watch it. Am a Hiroyuki fan.

[@_Holmsie]

The subtelty has been pretty much removed from the tv show compared to the book. It's all very much in your face now. The show is still amazing, but it lacks the oompf the book had. My biggest gripe with the show isn't that, it's how these massive cities should be full of people.. and they just seem completely devoid of life. It's like going into an open world game without any NPCs.

[@jaybandu6976]

@@_Holmsie that's a fair analysis. I take visual media with a grain of salt. The brain will always be the best GPU in all existence

[@TheAgr08]

@@_Holmsie I wouldn't say removed as much as adapted. The book will give you the intimate secret motivations and beliefs of multiple characters in the same scene, while they are having dialogue. There are a lot of instances of "how I would like to say to you that x,y,z but I can't!" inside characters' heads like Yabu and Mariko smack next to what they say out loud to really hammer home the appearances they must keep up. The book doesn't cling to its intrigue, it's happy to put it all out on the table. Without all that inner monologue we have to get people's stories through dialogue and action, which I think the show is doing a good job at so far.

[@markdotinc8371]

As I recall in the book and in history, Blackthorne/Adams (and Toranaga/Tokugawa) were more interested in trade than confrontation with the Portuguese

[@KGanza]

Hiroyuki Sanada’s microexpressions are brilliant man this guy can portray a smile that you see for 3 seconds and immediately return behind his fence.

[@ahipmom3104]

Or his recognition of the word Ronin and its likely significance before the statement is fully translated.

[@KGanza]

@@ahipmom3104 Master of faces!

[@Private_Idaho_1]

James Clavell wrote many outstanding books. If you like Shogun, read Tia-pan and King Rat.

[@mattturner7531]

Read them all, and they were all fascinating. Still haven't seen this Shogun series, going to check it out soon.

[@agungp.2580]

Tai pan. Not tia pan. You forgot to mention noble house, the sequel of tai pan, with different mc. Noble house has tv drama, too.

[@kevinlewis1573]

Gai Jin is also a really good book.

[@adamaa9144]

I have not would, but will now.

[@jaybandu6976]

"I assure you their arrogance is unbelievable!" Says the englishman that's trying to do the same thing they're doing lol

[@Pemmont107]

That's the point of this show. No-one's the "good guy" here; everyone has an agenda.

[@JackovdaBoro]

If the British couldn't colonize you they'd made sure no one else could

[@GiliGulu1969]

At the time, England wasn't. In about 1600 the English had failed in Roanaoke and the Jamestown wouldn't be founded for another 7 years.

[@bangscutter]

At that time, Portugal and Spain were the big guys. England, France and the Netherlands were still underdogs at that time, playing catch up.

[@deryaergul8261]

Therefore, Togugawa's isolation policy protected Japan from falling into the poppy trap of the British like China.

[@derekpowersblight]

Did he just say nah I'd win?😂

[@brownboyben]

This man foresaw Satoru Gojo's greatness.

[@TheMartuksxxxx]

I know right. Atleast he could have been like: well we got the baddest assest navy so

[@mikkodoria4778]

​@@brownboyben did he really say that?, im still watching season 1

[@orlandomolina6394]

@@mikkodoria4778 gojo said that line in season 1...

[@sweet.chickens]

He said “I’m just built different.”

[@kristopheralonge2813]

The "Unless I win" makes more sense in the original miniseries version of the scene.

[@ChipLinck]

Yes, I was thinking this. If I remember correctly, Toronaga states that there is no excuse for a rebellion, and Blackthorne statues there is one, if you win, to which Toronaga agrees and says yes, that is the one valid reason.

[@kristopheralonge2813]

Exactly! A much stronger scene!@@ChipLinck

[@brachson]

Agree.

[@SniffPum]

if u haven't seen this show. you need to see it. its amazing. the writing reminds me alot of early game of thrones. No wasted words.

[@paulreynolds9003]

I can’t wait to watch shogun , the attention to detail I’ve seen in theses videos on KZbin is amazing.

[@cohort29]

Hiroyuki is so good.

[@xdisruptor6630]

The truly terrifying thing is that at that era this is exactly how naval powers operated against weaker nations PS: come to think about it, things haven't changed that much to this day - it has only become more covert

[@Filipe8775]

Portugal never planned to toke over Japan, we went to Japan for trading, we introduce the firearm (arquebuz) and gunpowder to the japanese, they manage to copy them and perfected very fast...as for Macao the chinese emperor gave Macao to the portuguese for defending the Chine froom JAPANESE PIRATES, in this period of time Jhon Blackthorne is an enemy of the portuguese, Portugal and England are at war, of course he would try to put the japanese against Portugal.

[@JackTenrec-qk4zp]

is it really?? this is how stronger nations operating towards the weaker ones till this day, take your fake outrage where sun don't shine

[@robbieatvic]

What exactly is terrifying about it, all the previous great empires did the same going back probably 3000 years

[@massalleh5255]

​@@robbieatvicWhat exactly is more terrifying is that all the previous great empires end up conquered by the people they used to conquered ​@robbieatvic

[@aaronlimeuchin7352]

​@@massalleh5255 for example, China. Our ancestors did conquer large swathes of northern lands above of China in which the nomadic horsemen tribe live during the Great Han dynasty as well as the Tang dynasty. To win against these nomadic horsemen superiority, we Chinese use the divide and conquer tactic by instigating conflict among the tribes and bribe them. That is how we maintain our control over them and their lands. However, good days and glory days as always do not last forever. The nomadic horsemen that we Chinese looked down upon and labelled as "barbarians of the north" that fought one another rose under one single banner under the rule of one man alone by the name of Temujin, we now known as Genghis Khan. His great armies of horsemen would bring ruin and death to the doorsteps of many empires including the Chinese. It would not be until the death of Genghis Khan and one of his grandsons, Kublai Khan rose to be next Khan and bring an end to the Chinese Song dynasty. The Yuan dynasty would last at least for a hundred plus years until its fall replaced by the Ming Chinese dynasty.

[@SniffPum]

Hiroyuki's facial expressions are amazing.

[@MovieSceneDeepDive]

2:46 still gives me chills every time to his reaction. Such a mixed bag of emotions to hear that another foreign country should have any claim over another

[@lucascoval828]

A story as old as time.

[@jeremy1860]

I don't know how historically accurate this meeting was, but if it did happen, then it would have been quite a shock to hear all this. Learning that some far-away nation has claimed your home as their own is going to give anyone pause 🤔

[@richardphillips8260]

It's actually quite accurate. Probably some changes of phrases and conversation for dramatization. It's believed to be about 90% accurate

[@Ugur1982]

The Treaty of Tordesillas. Spain and Portugal did indeed split the world as they knew it into 2 halves of influence.

[@hypothalapotamus5293]

Hard to say. The guy he's talking to is probably supposed to be Tokugawa Ieyatsu, the last of the 3 great uniters of Japan. Ieyatsu did have an English retainer so it is somewhat plausible, but Ieyatsu's intentions were often difficult to read. The Tokugawa Shogunate kept Portuguese influence more limited than their predecessors, but it took 3 generations before they gave the Portuguese the boot entirely and traded with the Dutch instead.

[@richardphillips8260]

@@hypothalapotamus5293 This is a series, based off a book ( the Shogun by James Clavell), based of the life of Williams Adams (the English Samurai). The book, written in the 1970s, Changes a few things Like names but actually uses many Japanese historical documents as the basis for it and even in Japan is Highly praised for it's accuracy of the period and representations of known historical characters

[@JackTenrec-qk4zp]

shock? weren't they dividing their known world between themselves and Chinese ? some of the comments here, I swear to God, acting like as if Japanese never heard or done conquest and looting themselves

[@khylerbane4523]

I imagine that later on, when they were alone, Toranaga and the others all had an existential crisis when they tried to come to terms with the fact they and everything they ever dedicated their lives too was a footnote in history. How else do you react to learning your entire existence was completely insignificant on the world stage?

[@Don113]

Knowing the way samurai lords were, probably their reaction was more along the lines of "These unwashed barbarians have some fucking gall to lay claim to our lands."

[@antestanic2964]

This is such an awesome moment. Just a minute of screen time tells you so much about these two. I love this show and hope they leave it be if they don't have anything of quality to add and it's just money motivated.

[@seun9957]

😍😍Hiroyuki Sanada played Scorpion in Mortal Kombat.

[@Primarch-h9t]

Truly amazing show can’t wait to watch the other seasons when they come out I these kinds of shows that put sweat and soul into their work

[@Otter-Destruction]

The level of detail is no joke here. Many would've missed it, but when Toranaga jr says why not split the world between "Japan and China". He actually said the "Ming Dynasty" in Japanese and not "China" as they would call it today.

[@TheVic18t]

That's why it's called interpreting, not translating.

[@jamesdykes517]

Wow, this was pretty darn excellent of a scene. I can't decide who captures the emotion and moment best.

[@edwardhogan1877]

Agreed and an insight into later Japanese. policy towards foreign powers..

[@XenRA]

The rage after finding out that Japan "belongs" to Portugal at 2:43. Imagine your nation that has fought off invaders and each other for thousands of years, and some foreigner telling you, you're owned or colonized by another nation. Without even so much of a fight, or even aware you were even owned to begin with. If anything, this steeled Toranaga's will on becoming shogun, and if anything the Japanese crusades on finding Christians as well.

[@DonnieTNJ]

This scene is definitely better than the 1980 version.

[@DougieMonster31]

They altered an integral part of the book, it is supposed to be the Jesuit priest tells Toranaga that the Dutch rebelled against their rightful lord and he states there is no excuse for rebelling and Blackthorne then states "unless you win" and this is the moment Toranaga warms to Blackthorne.

[@DougieMonster31]

@homie3461 I'm sure if someone jumped back in time and gave them the same high quality cameras it would look just as good.

[@duncan-xg9sh]

Exactly. It was a seminal point in the book and they needlessly threw away the original dialogue and the significance it had.

[@LoveMaskedBandits]

The books written are never the same. It's Hollywood. They can do whatever they want. Have to sell the program and DVDs. Along with all the merchandise along with it. I've seen Hiro in a a show and several movies. Always loved him. Recently discovered he's a Libra as I am. The ONLY nonliving symbol of the USA zodiac.

[@radicalmonarchist8354]

The Japanese leaders acting is incredible, he sudden realization of how suddenly in danger Japan may be in if he’s right about the Portuguese is well done. Dismissing the bay sayers and listening. Excellent.

[@electricbayonet2]

I always like seeing how words get changed during when passed through a translator. Even something as simple as Mariko either not knowing or considering it a non-issue to just say ‘Christian’ when Blackthorne had said ‘Catholic’ for a very good reason. This show looks amazing. Time for a proper watch.

[@lostagain7292]

This show is phenomenal across the board. Finally we have great television again!

[@timothydavidcurp]

Oh, that beautiful little smile at 4:36...

[@GandalfThePlaid]

Blackthrone's voice & tone really reminds me of Crais from Farscape.

[@finncullen]

Or Tom Hardy from anything.

[@KGanza]

Bro that’s hilarious he said ‘to vanquish our common enemeies’ and she translated to ‘wants to enlist your help’ to make it seem like he was just like the invaders wanting to use Toranaga not ‘ally’ as Blackthorne implied because she doesn’t trust him! Great little details

[@racoonbananna]

Biggest chefs kiss to whoever did this sound design or sound track it's sooooo goooood

[@bujindork]

In the book Toranaga interviewed him alone about this, just him and Mariko, he really doesnt trust Yabu at all. Went against his character to have everyone there.

[@emmanuela7528]

It was so absurd that Marike couldn’t believe it, but Europeans just basically carved up the world amongst themselves.

[@remorselesscuckslayer2318]

She has no way of knowing except what the Portuguese tell. There was no Internet in those days.

[@TheMaulam12345]

just because he saying something doesnt mean its true.

[@GamingTalk-cl7xj]

Nobody else was doing it. They all just stayed where they were

[@hueylongdong347]

Didn't the neighboring Ming and previous Chinese Empires call themselves the Middle Kingdom and the centre of the world to which all other peoples, including the Eastern Barbarians of Japan, would pay tribute to? I highly doubt Mariko would be unaware to whom the Japanese have been paying a tribute to for centuries or the concept of Tianxia. Edit. The point was she and any other Japanese shouldn't see a foreign power carving up spheres on influence as absurd since that has already happened before.

[@TheMaulam12345]

@@hueylongdong347 yeah we are talking bout europeans from thousands mile away.

[@specialandroid1603]

Its not just the incredible acting, its also the superb script and scenery amongst other things.

[@robertgreer4296]

Sanada is awesome

[@watchful1168]

I have fallen in love with her...God help me!

[@steveoh9285]

Toranaga’s wry smile at the end indicated that Blackrhorn had endeared himself to the great lord. This show is so brilliant, on all levels.

[@fozzylozzy1131]

The Portuguese and Spanish arrogance was unbelievable. Britain/England over the next 500 years: "Let me show you how a real naval power works"

[@781stino]

England was late to the party. It was a layup for them. The hard work was done already

[@danoso0931]

"Toranaga, what do you see!?"

[@mr.deconcini3262]

Do I see Bob in the background?

[@eliesh11]

Best scene in television for 2024. Without knowing Blackthorn represented Bushido to Torranaga.

[@evanhill2896]

Love how as Blackthorne is explaining everything, Mariko is only giving Toranaga details that could be of use to him

[@baconknightt]

Notice that she didn't say he was a secret Portuguese CATHOLIC base. Protecting her own faith.

[@edwardhogan1877]

A very dramatic scene showing 16th century geopolitics as they affected Japan and providing clues to its later choice. of seclusion from the West. Impressive..

[@blainemcfarland5885]

The smile at the end gets me every time

[@AU88]

This show has been fun to watch.

[@geo4256]

"Unless I win". The moment Toranaga thinks I can role with this "Anjin".

[@videogames9972]

this looks so good

[@pauljackson2409]

T: 'What do you seek?' B:'To vanquish our common enemies' M (translation): 'To enlist you against his enemies' Mariko lies to Toranaga.

[@Narokkurai]

Nah, she's telling the truth to Toranaga. She's telling him what Blackthorne really means. Blackthorne certainly doesn't care about Toranaga's enemies, but he is interested in goading Toranaga into fighting with his own.

[@pauljackson2409]

@@Narokkurai No. Her task was to faithfully translate what Blackthorne said, not put her own spin on it. Toranaga was wise enough to be able to understand if Blackthorne was trying to manipulate him, and she could have given her opinion after the meeting. This shows that her loyalties are divided between the Jesuits and Toranaga.

[@DaveDexterMusic]

Not exactly. It's a running theme that the priest translates almost word for word, whilst Mariko is looser with her interpretation. Hard to call it a lie.

[@danzafrir2900]

This right here is what won them the Emmy.

[@angusgow1887]

I still enjoy this scene in the TV series

[@berenc7619]

Did anyone else notice the slightest ghost of a smile of approval from Toratnoga at Blackthorne's comment of '' unless I win ."? Torganga eventhough controlling his emotions of shock ,and anger over the information Blackthorne disclosed, about what the actual intentions of Portual.were concerning Japan - the look in his eyes at the last frame ,gives the impression that Toranogua had a suspicion Portuagal represented by the Catholic Portuages Priests ,were upto more than sharing Christianity - and the i'nformation' Blackthorne gave , confirmed it . Blackthotne in that geography lesson gave Toranaga weapons more valuable than the cannons confiscated from Blackthornes ship .

[@wolfu597]

Yes, I did. Toronaga, who's currently in an impossible situation, now realize that the Anjin could the key needed to turn the table against his adversaries. In other words, he now sees an opening. To establish.....the Toronaga shogunate.

[@berenc7619]

@@wolfu597 I thought about that also . Toranaga was no doubt growing despondent over not having a way to safely escape I's compound with enemies surrounding him on every side . Blackthorne was in the same situation and his comment ' unless , I win" put the 🔥, resolve and hope back in Toranaga's spirit - Blackthorne in a way , with 3 words, saved Toranoga' s life . Blackthorne literally was by profession a ships pilot, and figuratively with those 3 words piloted Toranaga mentally out of bad place, which would lead to Blackthorne piloting Toranaga out of a bad place physically. Toranaga needed renewed hope , and Blackthorne provided it .

[@OchukoOtokuefor]

In the Novel, Toranaga laughed out loud when Anjin-San said that line because it mirrored exactly what Toranaga faced against Ishido and the other regents.

[@OchukoOtokuefor]

In the Novel, Toranaga laughed out loud when Anjin-San said that line because it mirrored exactly what Toranaga faced against Ishido and the other regents.

[@hevnervals]

How was it slight? It was very obvious

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

One thing is for sure: Toranaga is no joke and someone to be taken lightly.

[@torrawel]

For those of you who complain about not learning stuff at school: why then didn t you go study history or Asian Studies, or something else similar? Of course you dont learn things like this in school… school is for the very basic stuff hou need in your everyday life in your own country.

[@vjrei]

I saw the original Shogun from the 80s. Amazing! This version has a lower pace but if you wants the original is like watching the original Blade Runners, the original was more cultural oriented, super good. This one is more cinematographic, more color and such.

[@tiffanywyatt5137]

This is the one show i wish i could be watching.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Episode 1: I really like this show. Episode 2 this scene: I really love this show.

[@Escriconi]

Theres a bit of misconception here. Portugal didnt want military conquest, it wanted economic conquest. Our colonies were always near sea routes so we could supply and support the line of commerce through out. The christianity spreading was part of the of the deal so the treaty was legal and recognise by the cathelic church. And in that regard portugal was successfull. The tea time english people are so proud to have in their culture was introduced by portugal spices, silk and tea were actualy worth more than gold at the time

[@CEOBrien]

The value of the goods they brought from the East, does not justify the Portuguese interference with the country of Japan's rulers, commerce and religion at the time. When they used religious proselytizing and secrecy to secure exclusivity, they were not merely "trading" with Japan.

[@Drestin1theConqueror]

You guys know that Yoshi Toranaga is Ieyasu Tokugawa the first Tokugawa who became Shōgun

[@khylerbane4523]

I was shocked and disappointed the part in the book where Toranaga and the others were not only in shock, but in complete denial of how small and insignificant Japan actually was on the world stage wasn’t in the show.

[@bconni2]

it's almost hard to believe just how far the Portuguese sailed to get to Nippon. and didn't they have a return voyage too.? i think it was a 2 to 3 year round trip venture?. if the expedition lost 1/3 of their ships and crew it was considered a best case scenario, successful enterprise . the never ending misery they endured on those long horror voyages is something most of us will never comprehend.

[@barbarae.demullingbriggs8362]

I like both Shogun mini series! But Richard Chamberlin is still my favorite!❤

[@amsfountain8792]

It will be wise not believe all the enemy of someone says. He would be saying it for his own benefit.

[@stargazeronesixseven]

😮🙏 The French , Spanish , Portuguese , Dutch & German forces learn the hard way to under estimate the British ingenuity of counter-offensive & battle strategies during war when the British forces being pushed into a dead wall! ... 😊🕯🙏🌎✌💜🕊🇬🇧

[@bajablast123]

After watching this scene like 900 times, I'm always amazed that I'm learning new things. She never once translates any Catholic allegations, but portrays the allegations against the Portuguese. Goes to show her internal conflict of hearing and not accepting that Catholicism may not be as perfect as she has been raised to believe.

[@AR160000]

Rick Grimes English brother.

[@justinrill2483]

Rick Grimes is English, brother

[@darthkek1953]

@@justinrill2483 Rick Grimes is American. Andrew Lincoln is English.

[@ToeTag1968]

Brilliant microexpressions throughout.

[@miracle-sb6go]

Please show me EP.2, 00:26:14~ 00:27:47.It's really Japanese!

[@higesirai4820]

異民族に真に日本的な物など理解できませんよ。

[@DarthPlato]

The Treaty of Tordesillas (1494) is not as ominous as many would have you believe. It was an agreement between Castile (the primary constituent of what would become the Crown of Spain) and Portugal. It's first purpose was both to readdress existing treaties/agreements about who had right to what islands/lands, and prevent a conflict over future discoveries to the west -- Isabella wanted Columbus to keep the discoveries secret from João II of Portugal, but Columbus went to Lisbon and bragged to João's Court there, "I told you so." This led to both countries plotting, thus necessitating a treaty/restructuring of existing norms, bulls, courtesy of the Borgia Pope, Alexander VI. The key sticking point of Tordesillas was that neither of them could occupy a land already claimed by a Catholic monarch--which, in theory, would include a monarch other than Castile or Portugal, if one existed. Think of this as more of a gold rush scenario, except with (for the moment) two participants, who could stake claims along lines specified by the treaty. These claims were pretensions directed against each other, setting limits on sailing rights. In essence, the world is being divided up, but only in this narrow context. So Tordesillas and Saragossa "dividing the world" turns out to be a big play on words. These are NOT borders in the technical sense -- that came later. This does NOT presuppose conquest. This does NOT mean that whatever treasures and inhabitants existing in those lands were at the mercy of Castile/Portugal. These issues were dealt with separately. Bear in mind, that very little was known in 1494 about the extent of the new discoveries, which, then, only consisted of some islands -- Brazil was not yet discovered (1500). The biggest problem with Tordesillas was that during the drafting of the treaty, the participants operated under the assumption that the newly discovered lands were in Asia; when Columbus landed on Cuba, he sent a search party as an embassy to locate the "Great Khan." Article Three of the treaty specified that a joint expedition of existing lines of exploration was to survey together and then ratify the treaty, but this joint voyage never occurred -- likely due to the gradual realization that the new discoveries were not in Asia after all. This essentially obviated the treaty in the eyes of the Catholic powers -- though no declaration was ever made to that effect; it simply faded away as an issue in favor of different ad hoc solutions. Eventually difficulties arose over where the Spanish prerogatives ended and Portuguese began in the Pacific region. This turned into the long-standing Moluccas question, which was not really settled by 1600.. The Treaty of Saragossa was in itself an ad hoc solution to the Moluccas question, it didn't really solve the the prerogatives issue at all. It's important to understand that the Catholic powers, like other States, were keen on legitimacy (or the attempt thereof), which meant clearly marking where one power ended and another began. This was to reduce the likelihood of war. It's the basis for why bulls, treaties, and conferences are held in the first place. And this was true even during the Iberian Union. Though, to be fair, the natives weren't invited. [speculation: It's possible that the Medieval sense of "Chain of Being" had something to do with this.] The powers-that-be in the overseas colonies themselves, however, were concerned about legitimacy or anything else because such matters were only important to those "over there." This was probably because the colonists and leaders in the Pacific, and elsewhere, were so far away from Lisbon or Madrid, that they felt that they could get away with anything. Note that the Philippines is west of the Saragossa line, but it was colonized by Spain (1565), not Portugal. There is a lot of Black Legend involved with these topics. History is not a reductionistic social binary. History is mostly ad hoc and very dynamic. Saragossa, like many events in history, was an ad hoc response to then-existing tension -- not a blueprint for colonialism. Spheres of influence did emerge between Spain and Portugal -- again, to reinforce and enforce legitimacy between the Catholic powers -- , but it was not set in stone in 1494. There were later attempts to revisit the issue of Tordesillas. One such attempt was made by Pope Julius II in the early 1500s. Though it is true that in later years of the 1500s and 1600s, there were Spaniards that said that Tordesillas and the Popes gave them rights. A colloquial understanding emerged out of this, but it was a mistaken historiography. Tordesillas and Saragossa turned into a useful fiction.

[@somethindarker]

I'm waiting for the season to end so I can marathon it.

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

Everytime that I see Toranaga's faint smile, I always think two words: Don Corleone.

[@pandaDotDragon]

I love how everyone freaks out when he starts to talk about the unknown Portuguese base in Macao 😅

[@noblue4u]

That smile

[@TKLotusSWG]

This is such a great show

[@martamorgan7897]

I'M going to have to read James CLavells book again, it's been a while.

[@drakept7742]

Portuguese and english were never at war with other over japan, we were allies. The portuguese were kick out of Japan by the janpanesse. Not the english.

[@gattonero2915]

Something tells me you know nothing of William Adams, the IRL man that fictional character Blackthorne is based from LMAO.

[@michellerhodes9910]

wonderful

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

No doubt in my mind that Toranaga was inspired by him being outnumbered by Ishido himself.

[@AWMul]

Good job they didn't ask me for a map 😂

[@OwenL2020]

I know right? -- "Draw the world..." Ah, well. We're...over here-ish. And this is...the middle east. And here's what Europe kind of looks like. Africa is this big ass thing down here.

[@nateyang9321]

So this is where Barney Went after it didn't work out with the Peaky Blinders

[@schoppepetzer9267]

Nobody beats Mifune and Chamberlain 😊

[@sether255]

she's... really not doing the job of translator well here. She's rephrasing the things he said, dropping context, and taking it on herself to determine if what he says is to be believed. It's critical that the ruler be able to make their own assessment of the facts of what was said without her alteration.

[@pawel8365]

Completely intentional, you see it throughout the series and highlights how everyone has an agenda.

[@sether255]

@@pawel8365 ahh, interesting. Thanks

[@edwardhogan1877]

@homie3461 Yes, clearly she suspects what he is saying about Portugal's. intentions. is true but she.is. also clearly. torn between duty.of truthfulness towards. her feudal Lord and. loyalty to her. new. faith-all very well acted.

[@CEOBrien]

Mariko's motivations are clearly shown in later parts of the series. Adapting to the Catholic religion is what allowed her to remain living, after trying to kill herself years before.

[@justabloke1806]

Imagine just understanding that your country was a small player compared to the Europeans in the world order.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

Nobunaga already had the Map of the world decades before Will Adams arrived in Japan

[@subutaynoyan5372]

It's fiction, not a goddamn historical documentary

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

@@subutaynoyan5372 And the producer (who was also acting as Toranaga) wanted to be as historically accurate as possible, so he removed the part where Blackthorn was the first to introduce firearms to Japan..... because they were very adept with firearms by the time Adams arrived.....and he also removed the part where the Japanese didn't know Europe was a huge civilisation on the other side of the globe.....and he considerably changed their response upon seeing Blackthorn's world map.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

@@subutaynoyan5372 One cannot fully appreciate this series until one knows the amount of effort they put into reconciling facts with fiction....and the fine details in clothing, culture, mannerisms and Conventions of the period. We see a lot of Samurai films but they tended to follow the Tokugawa Bakufu period conventions (more formal and ritualistic) but in this series they actually carefully made sure people behaved in keeping with the late Sengoku period. The people also spoke old Japanese, which is like old English to us.....so you have to appreciate how this scene was changed from the book. They kept the scene, but instead of having Toranaga exclaiming that he didn't realise Japan was so small in the grand scheme of the world.....he had Toranaga look keenly and ask intelligent questions about his journey.

[@toraguchitoraguchi9154]

@@subutaynoyan5372 We also see a significant change in Blackthorn's role, in the book he was training them how to use guns.....but in this series the samurai rightly told Blackthorn that they already knew how to use guns very well (Nobunaga used guns to fire in volleys, predating European use of the Same tactics by at least 90 years).....but yes the English Navy did have superior cannons to the Spanish and Portuguese at the time, so deploying Naval guns on land would have been a novel thing in Japan.....and Blackthorn was given command of the Cannon regiment.

[@TomBruhh]

I saw this as something of a test for Blackthorne. They wanted him to reveal what he, a barbarian, knows about the world, and in doing so learn about the Portuguese. Portugal hid knowledge of the rest of the world from the Japanese, but this barbarian told them the truth.

[@OddlyIncredible]

This scene highlights the level of sheer audacity and smug superiority European powers had back in the 15th-18th centuries. They not only decided amongst themselves to subjugate Asia, but there's also a similar event where European powers basically divided up Africa and outlined which country would be subjugating which.

[@781stino]

That’s how it was and still like this although in different ways. Survival of the fittest good or bad

[@Thefishyguy1]

You are out numbered and it is hopeless..... Nuh uh

[@danielwaldhoer7544]

"Nah i'd win"

[@jeffreyjackson5229]

Mariko's bigger issue was not so much that Europe did this, but it was actually sanctioned by the church, representatives of her faith, which shook her to the core. This is not an assault upon the church. I'm a Christian myself, but the reality is that there were some who didn't represent the faith very well. It's sad, but by this time the church took Christ's command to go into all the world and preach to mean to do so, not with the Holy Spirit, but with the musket, saber, and cannon.

[@yawarhussain7219]

To a certain extent, modern empires (oligarchies) still operate in the same manner.