RANT: A practical demonstration of tRAS and tRC DDR4 timings on Ryzen memory controllers.

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#RAM #overclocking #ddr4 #ryzen

[@dainluke]

Over time I have learnt to enjoy being verbally abused by Buildzoid

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

You just like his punishment!🤣

[@xlinnaeus]

lmaooo

[@ianmoone8244]

KKK

[@OitbCZSf0bUiQAMXK2Mz]

Sometimes I fantasize about buildzoid coming home drunk and beating me until I feel numb. He kicks me in the ribs until I can hardly breathe. Then he starts to cry and apologizes, begging me to forgive him for calling my timings atrocious. He holds me all night as I gently cry into his "keep calm and raise vcore" t-shirt.

[@idontneedthis66]

That beginning rant though...BZ sounds like the disappointed parent that catches you coming in at 2AM drunk beyond reason, and just looks at you saying "I'm not mad, I'm just disappointed" LOL Good stuff as always

[@BKHD605]

BZ, I appluad you. You give us all the f*ing cookbook to overclocking fundamentals and all the protips that takes countless hours of testing to know. Amazingly people give up halfway through. and if you made a Zen3 + BDie video it'll rake the views. I guess the masses don't want Hardcore or lengthy in depth video breakdowns. Anyway keep it going :)

[@sebastianm3505]

What would explode views would be literally 1 single picture of memory timings like in this video at the beginning, walking through every single timing explaining what it does

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

@@sebastianm3505 kzbin.info/aero/PLpS0n7xxSadUJE1fEuWfEMGvmMsVYGAbA

[@ApexLodestar]

LMAO!!! BZ ranting and educating is a combination that's prime KZbin.

[@jeremymoon9088]

Yung bz my pc neezie

[@79aimless]

LOL, you explain things perfectly fine man. You're hilarious, thank you.

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

BZ is a comedian at heart!🥰

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

fisrt

[@lilblackduc7312]

Give 'em hell, Buildzoid. 🇺🇸 😎👍☕

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

I'm happy for you!🙃

[@AngeloNguyen]

Willful ignorance is probably the most cardinal sin, and now you've experienced that first hand, buildzoid! Hopefully people learn from this video!

[@DavoidJohnson]

I like to think I know how thick I am but there's no harm in being reminded occasionally.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

I get regular reminders from certain parts of the documentation I read.

[@itguydave2164]

"Newer AGESA doesn't spit out F9". Latest Asus Dark hero does, I had 6 of them last night whilst tuning RAM... in all cases it was trying to push the clock beyond 2000MHz. My IMC won't go even 33MHz above it, no matter the voltage. Also, as much as this video is partially unnecessary (I watched the previous videos), it's a good focus topic that really needs to be better understood by anyone tweaking memory.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

oh I know it still does just not for this specific scenario.

[@christopherjackson2157]

I def get more out of the ram oc videos after watching the ram timings series. Recommend ppl at least watch the last one, that was where it clicked for me. Tho I still suck at ram overclocking lol. Good rant. It makes me wonder in what ways and xpo profiles will be different from Intel xmp

[@valentin3186]

Reddit comments be like: Oh, no! Your tRAS is wrongly calculated. You should use that formula tRAS=tCL+tRP+Last digit of your ram product number lol

[@samiraperi467]

My takeaway from this video is that it might as well be because it won't matter if it's crazy low.

[@JoonasTo]

TLDW: tune tRAS second to last and tRC last so it won't mess with your other timings. They also won't do anything if they are lower than your tRCDRD/WR and tRTP/WR combined for tRAS or tRAS and tRP combined for tRC. Just like tFAW won't do anything if it's less than four times tRRDS.

[@volodumurkalunyak4651]

On Intel: Tune tRAS last and forget about tRC existing. On AMD: Set tRAS to 21 second to last, tune tRC last. 4:05-4:12 at the video.

[@CattyRayheart]

tFAW to 16 I remember that. That is the timing that limits how fast you can send 4 read commands. For the others I'd have to rewatch your videos a few times, keepign all the acronyms straight is hard. But cheer up, I at least learned and *retained* at least a bit of information.

[@Kyori0]

also you have to set tRRD_S to 4 with tFAW of 16.

[@linnaea_lavia]

*4 activate commands

[@jonb695]

Memory timings have realistically changed very little over the years and most come from a time when memory was accessed through actual strobes, some could be depreciated but jedec seems to keep them for fun. On older memory Tras was the number of cycles that the ras pin had to be held high following a row strobe. As far as the activate -> precharge with no read or write, this can happen, it is the basis of rowhammer attacks.

[@abheekgulati8551]

Dear Mr. BZ, try not to be so impatient: if its taken you years to put out a series of videos on a requested topic, do allow your viewer base sometime to watch and subsequently absorb the information therein, the latter of which may take several review sessions for the viewer. If someone is asking you a question on a topic you've already addressed on AHOC, perhaps you could be so kind as to direct them to your channel rather than berating your entire viewer base for being idiots, as entertaining as that is to watch! Rant over, cheers.

[@rajackar]

Absolutely appreciate these videos. This is literally the first time I'm starting to understand all these timings. Does take a while to get used to all this and get all the different timings in my head. These practical examples help a lot. It's nice to finally know what I'm doing instead of just typing in whatever comes out of ryzen dram calculator ;-) Also love the rants haha. It's not super complicated but it is a LOT of information to absorb. So it takes some time haha

[@mroutcast8515]

love the mocking Buildzoid edition right there at the start of the video. That shit never gets old 😄

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

We all love BZ!🤩

[@Real28]

That background is kinda hilarious with all of the stuff written around and in it.

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

I'm sure you love doing rant videos BZ! I we love watching your videos immensely!🤪

[@lilblackduc7312]

Thank you for yet another fine Informative video with lively Editorial Comment! 🇺🇸 😎👍☕

[@NavinF]

AMD CPUs don't speculatively open rows and precharge when they're unnecessary? That's really surprising!

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

The thing is if you have the wrong row open you end up taking longer getting to the correct row if it's in the same bank. Since instead of just needing a tRCD+tCL/tCWL you need tRP+tRCD+tCL/tCWL. It's also possible that AMD does speculative row activations but is just much less aggressive with PRE commands. Intel CPUs seem to be able to send PRE commands before tRCD is over.

[@Wasmachineman]

bz have you got any good resources on tuning B-die on Zen 2? not that the fucked IMC of my 3950X is any good beyond 3600 :(

[@joescalon541]

That seems fairly unlucky. Are you sure it’s the 3950x and not other things like soc voltage or something else? When I was tuning a 3700x it easily hit 3800 and had a little bit more room but left it at 3800.

[@Wasmachineman]

@@joescalon541 I put 1.4V on CLDO_VDDP and it seems to have fucked up the IMC. Or the ASUS CH7 just sucks ass for RAM OC.

BZ always make me smile

[@sumikomei]

"You know, it just so happens that I have a video for that. That video also just so happens to be part of the same series this is in, and just so happens to have an index number in the title for where it is in the series." I find it as baffling as I do disrespectful that people will skip videos in a numbered series and then complain about not understanding something. Just *why*.

[@zxcv4815]

Informative and hilarious. Thank you

[@nivel3arquitectos]

Buildzoid, i would like to watch an analysis about current z690 motherboads power stages vs next gen raptor lake cpus, since 13900k is gonna be compatible with z690. All this to solve this question: do we need an overpriced new gen z790 motherboad to properly run an overclocked 13900k, or, is a mid-high tier z690 mobo capable enough? Also, your videos are amazing, i've learned a lot!Thanks!

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

you'll have to plug in the extra power connector but the VRMs should handle the CPUs just fine.

[@rayray00204]

GDM on you can set any timing as low as possible. but GDM off and 1T, some timings you have to follow their "rules" or it will go bsod. but I already tire to tweak any DDR4 kit. new DDR5 is the revolution.

[@realnamesnotgiven6193]

I saw this before the timings video. Going to watch that tomorrow.

[@timestamppatrol]

thanks for this video no one really talking about it

[@schumbo8324]

man woke up and choose violence

[@すぱるき]

Well, im a big dum dum when it comes to memory overclock, thats why i subbed to you. Your timming videos helped me a lot to understand why timming is there and what for

[@GHOST9421GCI]

I absolutely Love your videos and follow and learn alot from you. You posses a great amount of knowledge and I admire that. Would love to understand everything you do but just like many other ppl I don't. Although, I know why I don't understand everything and it's because of the way certain info you provide is not connected to anything therefore gaps appear. If this comment ever gets to you please replay and I will give you our point of view, what we need to know to really understand those timings. Sending love man ❤ Hope you have a great day 🙂

[@PAIN-ot4cj]

How do I lower my damn Trcd

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

BUY BETTER RAM

[@otakujhp]

Put the computer in the basement.

[@406mill]

I've got 3 kids and i work with one of them, i know exactly how you feel! 🤣🤣🤣

[@sqbronco1]

liked for bzs frustration.

[@evo0074]

thats godlike

[@devoker666]

Could this be board specific? I have asrock b450 itx + ryzen 3600, my kit runs with 16-17-17-30-50 but I can't boot with the timings 16-17-17-33-45 for example. Trtp 6, twr 12, tcwl 14 btw. Am I missing something?

[@megavolt31r]

Hello, Buildzoid. Can you explain tWR? Does it need to be 2*tRTP? I can set it to 10 (tRTP 8), but the performance seems less consistent.

[@extremegf]

I watched and appreciated them :)

[@RiteKnight]

It's just our way of giving you more video ideas (though we do run the risk of BZ overheating :D )

[@BBWahoo]

Would 33 or 35 work as well? I have my tras at 21.

[@vermillion4971]

feel like i was spanked for being stupid... even though i haven't asked any question and didn't even finished watching timing videos, bcs i have rly cheap b450 mobo with 4x8gb 3200cl14 b-die with it and can't 100% stabilize it even with a bit looser secondary and therthiary timings, system pass all tests but sometimes randomly reboots, CPU is 5600x with +200 pbo, mobo is msi Mortar Max

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

I guess you just need to ask BZ some smart questions and watch all of his videos . Then maybe BZ will think more highly of you!😇

[@willjohnsonjohnson]

If it's just rebooting and not showing a bluescreen, it's most likely not the RAM.

[@m.m.3753]

Hi BZ! Please help me. i own 4 Sticks 4133 @ 3600 14-14-14-14-28-42 1T GDM on, what should i set now for TRAS and TRC? Please help.

[@wewillrockyou1986]

I was under the impression that tRAS was the time that the RAS signal was asserted, and therefore could be ended before the precharge starts if it was shorter than the RCD+CAS combination for the respective operation. Once the RCD completes, the selected row should be loaded into the row buffer which means the RAS signal is no longer needed to connect the row with the row buffer/sense amplifier. The behaviour of this aspect might be the reason this demonstration does not work on intel.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

Where is this mentioned because literally all the documentation I've read only talks about tRAS limiting how soon you can send a PRE after an ACT or how soon an automatic precharge can start. tRCD handles moving the data from the memory array into the sense amplifiers.

[@jonb695]

This was kind of true 25-30 years ago. Tras was "RAS active time" and was the number of clocks that Ras had to be held high after the row strobe but has changed with more modern memory standards. This is one of the issues with alot of the memory overclocking information that is available online, there is quite a bit of decades old, outdated information mixed in.

[@wewillrockyou1986]

​@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking I think it is implicit because under JEDEC, tRAS is way longer than the minimum of the RCD+CAS combination so it is gating when the precharge can start. It's only when you lower RAS below JEDEC values that RCD+CAS can become the larger of the two. tRCD handles the time that is needed to pass before the CAS is allowed to start, but because CAS and RAS are independent signals, for a read operation you can keep RAS active as long as you like once the data is in the row buffer. For a write operation RAS has to be held active anyway to push the data from the row buffer back to the row in the memory array, so RAS is held active until the precharge.

[@ianmoone8244]

But but but Buildzoid how tRAS works? xD

[@paveljelinek772]

Yea but does it guarantee you any speed/latency boost in real world? Edit: thanx for thorough explain of how timings work man♥️♥️♥️ i can finally tighten my crucial ballistix max to the absolute stable max ♥️

[@cosmicusstardust3300]

I just bought a 128 GB kit of 3200MHz ECC RAM with my 5950X and called it a day screw latency lol

[@christopherjackson2157]

Nice.

[@ionutortian5885]

Wath memory you recommend for ryzen 5 series and wath frequency

[@Upon]

Favorite energy drink? Also regardless of the why, this video is great there's nothing wrong with giving this its own segment/video, I mean how many people actually know this even on OC forums lmao so it's a good (maybe even concise) reminder. I also agree with how tRAS shouldn't be there even a dumb dumb can notice how it pretty much does nothing for performance (magic formula), based tRC tuning.

[@Wasmachineman]

BZ likes Monster very much.

[@longjohn526]

Is that screencap implying this is all really witchcraft? Bubble bubble toil and trouble set my tRC to double

[@K9PT]

This aply also in DDR5?!

[@keokio7]

alright.. wtf is up with that wallpaper though.. did you make a deal with the devil, that's why you have all this computer knowledge?

[@rwdturbo]

You will never learn of the full knowledge.. Normie vular person. 😂

[@patent5421]

Angry buildzoid is the best buildzoid 😈

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

BZ just needs a hug!😛

[@vibonacci]

PCIe5 is worth it. Double speed NVMe from gen 4... was waiting for it

[@Wasmachineman]

btw bz, 4/4/16 tRRD/tFAW errored within 15 minutes in Tm5 Absolute :(

[@attention_shopping]

so good

[@JosiahBradley]

Is that stockfish on your desktop?

[@areng871]

Did that wall paper gain another 100mhz?

[@alucard2438]

I just can't understand what's with the pentagram

[@czbrat]

I have Hynix CJR so my tRC and tRAS both bottom out.

[@rippermkd1]

hey buildzoid, i have 4x8gb 4100mhz (b-die) adata, and i cant get it to work more than 3600mhz (also mobo spec says max for 4 dimms is 3600mhz, 2 dimms work perfectly on 4100mhz) board is asus prime x570-pro. tried lot of stuff, even with auto clocks nothing works even 3800mhz. is there anyway i can go around???

[@chovekb]

5700G to possibly get them to 3733 LOOL

[@executor893]

Your motherboard is daisy chain topology, therefore you shouldn't be using more than 2 sticks of RAM if you want high RAM clocks. With daisy chain and 4 sticks, the RAM traces will differ in length, causing extra instability. You want a T-topology motherboard for 4 DIMM configurations.

[@cainzjussYT]

waaaow ... you live in the future :D

[@bringbackdislikebutton6452]

Jayz2cents level of derision while actually being right

[@fracturedlife1393]

Always surprised bz doesn't pull the godawful rgb off

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

I don't care

[@fracturedlife1393]

Aye made the comment just before you refer to the overkill rgb patterns

[@CrazySerb]

We all know real reason why Buildzoid picked this kit. It has RGB so timings do not matter!

[@BobGP1]

Yo some people are just a little slow or just clicked on this first

[@WillFuI]

I am a idiot I know

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

I'm sure you will grow out of it very soon!🥰

[@tylercoombs1]

I'm sorry Buildzoid this video is still too wordy for me. Could you turn this into a TikTok series full of B-roll animations, maybe add a musical bit? Thanks xxoo lol

[@BuzzKiller23]

haha, tras go burrrrr

[@meandrost2824]

Intel Bdie next?

[@TennessseTimmy]

I don't understand this :) I believe it, I see it XD

[@plasmaman9592]

I like your content but it's hard to watch your videos cuz you get off on tangents and talk for a long time on things that aren't particularly relevant

[@Blade_of_Tomoe]

This guy would be a terrible teacher lol

[@rwdturbo]

But pentagram, 😈😂

[@Raivo_K]

And tRFC 666😈

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

BZ's pentagram drives me wild!😛

[@_BangDroid_]

@@joseperez-ig5yu hierophilia

[@LA-MJ]

Excel didn't work so you expect shouting numbers into the void will? Lol

[@_BangDroid_]

Is there an "Actually Mediocre Overclocking" channel? lol jk

[@TennessseTimmy]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Wasmachineman]

Not first.

[@joseperez-ig5yu]

Maybe next time!😊

[@doubledutch3439]

Even stupid people like me could learn about timings if only the right information was available. What you would need is: 1 A list with all the commands. 2. The (simple) math behind it. 3. Why the math is like that (which is also simple). But unfortunately no overclocking guide or KZbin channel will tell you this and googling doesn't give the right hits either. You all think BZ is such a genius, but you just spend 20 minutes on only 2 commands, which could be explained in less than 20 seconds.

[@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking]

THERE IS NO MATH IN MEMORY TIMINGS.

[@doubledutch3439]

@@ActuallyHardcoreOverclocking depends how you look at it, fortunately I just watched your 4th video, which is excellent.

[@4ghzgaming664]

I just came here to tell you to clean up your desktop

[@idwalwilliams3713]

3rd?

[@vofatis]

🤣

[@sebastianm3505]

😂😂😂

[@redclaw72666]

Wanna know why lazy people want short less than 3 mins lol