Adam Hamilton Responds to Rob Renfroe: Moving Forward with the UMC

[@JLeeladee]

I agree totally with Pastor Rob Renfroe. He is sincerely contending for the faith... Jude 1:3- Beloved, while I was making every effort to write you about our common salvation, I was compelled to write to you [urgently] appealing that you fight strenuously for [the defense of] the faith which was once for all handed down to the saints [the faith that is the sum of Christian belief that was given verbally to believers]. Jude 1:23 Save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy but with fear, loathing even the clothing spotted and polluted by their shameless immoral freedom. UMC has watered down the Gospel. John Wesley would turn over in his grave if he knew what the progressives were doing with the UMC. It doesn't matter Pastor Adam, don't be so fixated on "Big Churches" for narrow is the gate. Matthew 7:13-14-Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14“For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it. (P.S. societal changes due to technology is not the same as adding or subtracting to the Holy Scriptures. Rev. 22:18-19 - I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. 19- And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and the holy city, which are described in this book. 20He who testifies to these things says, “Yes, I am coming soon.” Amen. Come, Lord Jesus! 🙏✝🙌🔥🕊😍

[@TheMandiJ]

I attended COR for about 5 years and enjoyed many sermons that you preached. I was also extremely disappointed and saddened when you made it clear that you approved of homosexual ordained clergy and same sex marriages performed in the church. It sounded good when you read the BOD. If you had added that there are no consequences when it is not followed, that would have told the whole truth. The bible teaches that before Jesus comes back there will be a GREAT falling away.😢 We are here! Prayers for you!🙏

[@jimnahrgang5981]

Adam, you tell us what some of your Bishops are doing and why aren’t they held accountable? Why aren’t they following the book of discipline? Is marriage between one man and one woman?

[@jeansimpson2373]

I hate the words "relevant" and "relevance". Jesus has ALWAYS been relevant; the Gospel and the words of the scriptures have always been relevant; and we're not to change the word just to acclimate to the society. Too many want words to tickle their ears, not wanting the truth.

[@MisterMiller]

Once, just once, I would appreciate Adam mentioning that mistrust of the current Bishop leadership that led to this. And, why are the comments disabled for the other videos? It is hard to believe in an open conversation when the conversation is silenced in the public forum.

[@brkiii]

I can certainly appreciate the comments about each church needing to find new ways to do ministry and leaving one denomination for another one is not the answer. I am still on the fence post about staying or leaving. I believe in the concept of the "big tent" in regard to theological viewpoints and also agree very strongly with what our BOD reads. There is only one reason why I am considering leaving the denomination: if we are not going to follow our BOD (ie. electing bishops who are professing homosexuals, which goes against our BOD), why are we quoting from it as if it has authority? When we do not follow the BOD, how can we have faith in the Polity and Doctrine that lies within? If we are not going to follow parts of it, what would stop us from following any of it? Why couldn't they simply wait until the BOD language changes at GC 2024? I love our denomination and love our polity and doctrine. It breaks my heart when it is not followed.

[@davewil3]

United Methodist leadership follows the book of discipline the same way they follow the Bible. Ignore the portions that don't match their personal beliefs, and quote the portions that support their beliefs.

[@Greecelanding]

Good points. Thank you for the time and work you put into these helpful videos. It absolutely is helpful to listen to Rob Renfroe’s videos first. Renfroe’s comments you labeled scare tactics are not fabricated nor exaggerated. They are already happening. While listening to his videos I paused the video each time he quoted or paraphrased a writer, pastor or bishop to read the information in context for myself. In each case he was accurate. These are not all retirees. One bishop he quoted for writing Jesus was not sinless was just appointed to lead the conference that includes Colorado. In our conference we already have progressive bishops who appoint progressive pastors who tell members with different beliefs that they are not welcome in church. I will vote to disaffiliate because the progressive leadership in the UMC has shown itself to be untrustworthy. They will change the UMC. We are leaving in order to STAY biblical, traditional, thinking, loving and welcoming.

[@ctrawick3]

“Loving all” cannot decide which parts of God’s Word they choose to believe and obey. Itching ears and doctrines of demons.

[@MisterMiller]

It's been a year, and this has aged like sour milk. I will, anytime, provide AMPLE evidence of unorthodox beliefs from ACTIVE Bishops in their own published articles and sermons. And I'm still wondering why the comments sections of the other videos were turned off, other than to silence discussion.

[@dansmith5280]

I have to go back and review all of Adam’s videos in this series. I don’t think the elephant in the room has been addressed. Is the scripture clear that same-sex is a sin? That is, not God’s intended design. I think it is because sex is intended by God M( or by nature for non-believers) for the propagation of the human species. That is clear in the first chapter of Genesis. The pleasure is to offset the risks of child bearing. Pleasure is an emotion that drives all kinds of behavior. Behavior is a choice, nevertheless. If you agree to the preceding, how is church sanctioned behavior that is not God’s plan something that the church can condone by sanctifying by Holy Matrimony? I am looking for a scriptural reply that provides a well thought out argument counter to the preceding. Does Adam have something I can read or see in reply?

[@birdwing98]

I am looking for scriptural support that we are allowed to drive automobiles and operate airplanes in the skies.

[@markc2080]

Sir the UMC is not following your own book of discipline. Going forward the UMC is going continue to become more progressive. In doing so they are going to die a slow death.

[@grackers7921]

The progressive wing of the UMC is only marginally more Christian than an ayatollah.

[@b.strong9347]

It’s odd that it took so long to create this last video to the other five. I also find it funny how churches voting to leave and join the GMC (as well as probably other options) are using the Hamilton videos as source of reason to leave because the claims that Hamilton makes are the exact reason so many are leaving: changing wording to be more “inclusive” in terms of embracing sinful behavior. There’s the prevailing concept of a “big tent” that the UMC has been trying to spout for some time now. However, the big tent continues to crumble as time passes due to lack of a firm foundation. Without a shared foundation, which is clearly lacking from the actual practices of the UMC, a house can not stand, period. To those that are believing the falsehoods perpetrated against the GMC, Renfroe, and conservatives, please actually look into how many churches are spending small fortunes to get out of the UMC… and how many more would be leaving if they could afford it or if their individual leadership and/or clergy didn’t withhold information or not allow discussion on the matter.

[@flapjackluvr]

So being a church where all are welcome is a reason to leave the UMC? I would rather belong to a church that welcomes people and does not turn people away.

[@b.strong9347]

@@flapjackluvr You incorrectly interpret what I have stated whether through a misguided education on the subject or your own biased slant. No - Reread what I wrote. Nowhere did I mention not welcoming anyone. The problem with the modern UMC is that instead of preaching Scripture and calling sin "sin," many are now embracing and downright encouraging sinful behaviors. All sinners are to be welcome in church. However, when the church starts to claim that sins are no longer sins by taking Scripture out of context (or as in one of Hamilton's response videos you base your theology off of not believing someone is "bad" because they are of a differing lifestyle) or just omitting it altogether, that is when there is a problem, and that is why congregations are leaving.

[@flapjackluvr]

@@b.strong9347 I did not misinterpret, I just summarized. This entire situation is based on not welcoming LGBTQ persons in the church. To say you accept gay people but do not consider them worthy of full inclusion is not acceptance. Being gay is not a sin. It does not say being gay is a sin anywhere in the Bible. The number of churches leaving the UMC only says how many churches do not believe Jesus' commandment to go make disciples.

[@flapjackluvr]

Let me add that I believe conservatives, progressives, and centrists can exist together in harmony. However, some folks have chosen to further divide our church by saying it is not possible. It is so sad, but if all churches will (when the dust settles) focus on the Great Commission and stop bickering, maybe we can all have a positive impact in our world.

[@b.strong9347]

​@@flapjackluvr If your interpretation is not wrong (which it painfully and arrogantly is), then you make incorrect assumptions therefore making your summary false at best. In a nutshell, no one has been denied entry nor participation in any of the churches I have served or attended (in the conservative Bible Belt, no less). That’s not at all the argument. To say this is our argument is false be it the result of misguided teaching, ignorance, or outright dishonesty. The official language that the UMC is requiring disaffiliating congregations to use is about (not) allowing professing acting homosexuals to be clergy as well as (not) allowing the act of homosexual marriage. However, if you ask any disaffiliating church, you will certainly find that most are leaving for multiple reasons in which this official reason is only one on a list of reasons. These ideas of "acceptance" and "inclusion" have become wars of words that are not often based on honest debate nor context. However, that aside, I have been a part of several UMC congregations across both Alabama and Georgia that ranged in size (ranging from about 10 to well over 500 attendees) in both rural and metropolitan areas. None ever excommunicated or denied entry to anyone for being homosexual, and each of these churches had professing gay people. My current church as well as all of my former churches are planning to disaffiliate except one - the smallest and (by most definitions) the most redneck is remaining UMC. Personally, I do not think the fact of being attracted to someone of the same gender is necessarily sin. All are presented with different temptations in our individual lives, and some are seemingly greater and more costly than others. However, when one acts on these attractions thereby performing homosexual acts, that is sin… and there is no way that anyone can claim sex outside of a Biblical marriage (one man and one woman) is anything other than sin without either ignorance of Scripture or blatantly misrepresenting Scripture by taking passages out of context. The number of churches leaving the UMC (at often great costs, might I add) shows how many churches do not agree with the current direction of the UMC (and evidently you). Ask anyone why they vote to disaffiliate; most everyone will inform you that it’s due to the UMC allowing for anti-Biblical preachings, acts, and representations, in multiple facets with no (possible) repercussions for acting against the UMC Discipline or the Holy Bible. Ask disaffiliating churches why they are leaving, most all will tell you because they require that the church endorses Scripture, not sin… be whatever that sin may be. Conservative and centrists can exist together; however, a big tent calls for a strong foundation, and that foundation is obviously something that we do not currently have between the left and the right within the denomination. A strong foundation of a Christian body must be built upon the shared comprehension of the Bible. We cannot stand by while people that also wear our name often proclaim the absolute opposite of our own convictions be it the Biblical definition of marriage (which is a parallel for the Bride of Christ and the Bridegroom in the Marriage Supper of the Lamb) or even so much as the deity of Christ, Himself. Here's the deal, the conservatives that are leaving can explain why we’re doing so by using Scripture in context. Progressives that are actively ignoring UMC doctrine and (more importantly) contextual Scripture (that want to (as stated in this very series) actually change the doctrine to better represent their culture therefore being more of this world) cannot do the same. It is the progressives that have further divided the UMC by not following Scripture and ignoring the UMC Book of Discipline. I very much agree that I wish we could just focus on the Great Commission; however, the fact that the UMC has splintered into at least two distinguishing camps as to what Jesus said (Matthew 28:20) makes that notion completely impossible because the conservative (the Biblical) faction of the church understands that while all are welcome in church, we are not to embrace (and especially not encourage) sinful behavior. Romans 1 & 13 1 Corinthian 6 & 7 Galatians 1 & 5 Colossians 2 & 3 1 Timothy 1 2 Timothy 4 Titus 1 Hebrews 13 2 Peter Jude 1 Leviticus 18, 20:13 Matthew 7 Mark 10 John 1 & 8

[@John-nu1cj]

Adam Hamilton says he doesn't recognize the things Rev. Renfroe describes about bishops and other clergy in the UMC. Rev. Hamilton is being very disingenuous. I find it very hard to believe him because I have seen what Rev. Renfroe describes in some of the very liberal clergy I have been exposed to in the UMC. Rev. Hamilton must not have done any research on what his colleagues are espousing because support for Rev. Renfroe's statements are readily available to anyone who cares to look. Rev. Hamilton is a smooth talker but I can't believe what he says about the future UMC if he can't be honest about the current state of the UMC.

[@JLeeladee]

Your "Comments" are turned off on many of your other videos?

[@marvinshook9142]

Thank you for taking the time, and making the effort, to respond to Rob Renfroe's videos. I will vote to disaffiliate, I am not willing to be associated with a church that openly approves of and encourages any sinful behavior, including homosexual behavior. I also wonder why create a new GMC and not join some other existing orthodox body of Christ.

[@ikreer9777]

Churches who disaffiliate will not automatically join the GMC. They will have to have another discussion and vote to decide whether to join another denomination, what denomination it should be, or if they should stay independent.

[@annpippin6388]

I think that Mark C. Is correct. Is right n

[@sarahellzey2182]

Thank you for this incredibly helpful series! It has been very helpful for me as a pastor to help people see the true theology and nature of the UMC! Your experience has been mine in this denomination.

[@RyanLake185]

i just remember the old umc TV commericals where we proudly proclaimed that we were "Open hearts, Open Minds and Open Doors. Whatever happened with that

[@janesharpe4663]

Thank you Rev. Hamilton. This debacle is heartbreaking. One has to wonder how Wesley, who said Methodists are people who "think and let think" would feel about all of this. One of the things I have always loved about the United Methodist Church is that it has been a very large umbrella that could welcome both the very fundamental and the very liberal thinker. What happened to us???

[@margotporterfield7052]

Thank you Adam. I appreciate your message!

[@lauraweaver6627]

Thank you so much for making these videos and helping to clear up these fear tactics and disinformation being spread, which just serves to divide and create a broken church. You truly are living the gospel in the way you have handled this.

[@willetyoung6693]

He lists the high points of Christianity while totally overlooking changing the scripture while promoting heresy. It's so sad that the UMC hasn't the spiritual depth to have the discernment to notice errors. You have become syncretistic. You are adjusting orthodoxy to adjust to cultural norms. You won't like where this is going!!

[@flapjackluvr]

Scripture is not being changed. I think you missed the point Mr. Hamilton was making.

[@hisilkat]

Cultural norms like slavery? That was was condoned in the Bible. Football with a pigskin was not. Children who spoke back to their parents were to be put to death. You're not suppose to eat shellfish. The list goes on. How do you pick out what we do and do not blindly follow? I'm really asking. How do YOU pick?

[@dansmith5280]

@@flapjackluvr please elaborate what you mean. Too vague

[@kirstenapgar9190]

Protestantism isn't the Orthodox Christian faith. There are some pretty big differences between the two.

[@jamesshoemaker3842]

As someone who was raised UMC and spent half their life really active in church and the other half completely disconnected, I have found your videos very encouraging and informative. I am someone who really struggles with aspects of the Old Testament and you were able to explain it in a way that helped settle that.

[@suethomi7137]

Been in a turmoil within my heart. Don't wish to leave UMC. Heard so much of Global and where we're headed. and how far left we're going. I'm getting more clear. Wish to stay UMC as I know it. Heard changing word of God in UMC not keeping the birth and resurrection in UMC. You're confirming how untrue this is. Love those staying Untied and not even voting. Love singing and part of Choir so I don't wish to leave our church either way. Just Praying we choose to remain and doctrine, Wesley belief, doesn't change in our book of discipline. Thanks for helping to clear my head.

[@davewil3]

They don't need to change the book of discipline, they just ignore the portions that they do not agree with. Just like liberal prosecutors do not prosecute crimes when they don't like a law.