Adam Savage Disappointed By This Machine Tool

[@michaelnordin3006]

Adam, I have the exact same one. If you take it back apart you can leave the middle axis (x or y not sure what one it is) out of it making it just a rotary table with one axis. Plus it reduces the height by around an inch or to. I find that this makes it much more useful for me anyway!

[@tomtech4224]

My first thought was made for drill press. It even has a 4 mount holes that would fit the most common drill press table Tee slots. I would love it for that use.

[@QurttoRco]

Yeah thats pretty much only use for I could see. Bit too much for C axis on a mill

[@Arckivio]

It is pretty obvious it's for the more robust drill press where it would be accurate enough for index drilling. The X Y for centering for a drill press is ideal.

[@MagnaRyuuDesigns]

@@Arckivio Yeah was going to comment the same thing. This is definitely meant for a drill press.

[@Aoskar95]

That would explain the XY axises. A mill wouldn't need those but could be very useful for small adjustments on a drill

[@vaderdudenator1]

Absolutely. The x/y largely is redundant with the mill table

[@ebenbildable]

The mill table you mount the rotary table on IS the x, y, and z axes. Rotary tables are incredibly useful to small machine shops, especially when trying to mill circles that are larger than the throw of your lathe. Think of it like trepanning in reverse. You overcome the backlash by only making small cuts AND only rotating in the same direction once the acme threads are engaged and the cutter is milling the cut.

[@johnrobinson4445]

Shhh...he hasn't figured that out yet. He is too busy hyperventilating and needlessly adjusting his camera.

[@EverettWilson]

​@@johnrobinson4445 That's just being rude.

[@artcraft2893]

Also there is a trick when you need rotate in opposite direction. You made few degrees over required position ant then rotate back to required position.

[@alexstarr1589]

I have absolutely no machining experience but I had the same thoughts. I don't understand why an x/y/z table would need to be on top of the rotary table or why the backlash would matter if you only advance in one direction. I assumed I was missing something due to lack of experience

[@foolio42]

​@@alexstarr1589 with xy on top of the rotary table, you can change what is over the center of rotation to do multiple curves without unclamping the workpiece.

[@DonziGT230]

I have the same tool and was excited to add it to my drill press so I could do milling operations on it, after securing the chuck which is crucial. It served me pretty well for several projects. When I got my mill I thought I'd move it to that, but quickly discovered that it's not going to work because it's too tall.

[@13dirtblack]

You can take out the y-axis and it gets significantly lower profile. I have the same one because a guy was practically giving it away and I needed something slightly larger and better than the Chinese 6"ers out there

[@DonziGT230]

@@13dirtblack I never considered that, thank you!

[@DonziGT230]

@Repent and believe in Jesus Christ Does that have anything to do with the tool being discussed?

[@KRTube75]

This is a milling vise add-on for a drill press. You see a lot of the Craftsman branded ones made by Chicago Tool. I've see Palmgren versions of these and their sales book says "Converts your drill press for rotary milling." The rotary table is supposed to have lock screws to hold it in place when doing the actual drilling so it's not very good for active rotary milling. It's great for getting the piece into position, locking down the table then drilling a precision hole rotating to the next precise location, locking it down and drilling again. You could probably do some active rotary milling with it but you'd need to keep constant pressure in one direction and work slowly.

[@guytech7310]

Sucks for trying to clamp a part that is concentric to the table using strap clamps. You're better off just printing the hole pattern and using a punch to mark the holes. with strap clamps you spend 30 to 40 minutes trying to clamp it concentric and you can only hold small parts do to the overhead using strap clamps.

[@MakeEverything]

I’ve got the same one by Palmgren, I actually removed an entire axis off it, it made it more rigid and I used it a lot!

[@slainefeanor]

Send it to Inheritance Machining and see if he can't improve it. I'm sure he could make use of it or at least fix it as a project!

[@fzriow]

Agree, IM is probably one of the best channels for manual machining out there now.

[@slainefeanor]

@@fzriow couldn't agree more. absolutely brilliant channel!

[@slainefeanor]

@@orangetruckman i'll check him out. thanks!

[@loomismeister]

I was thinking of the IM channel while pondering the claim that rotary tables aren’t really useful on a milling machine.

[@ttsupra87]

Read my mind

[@joshuajohnson8735]

I've been binge watching all of your one day builds adam. Grew up watching myth busters and found this channel recently and reliving old memories.

[@DavePlaysGaming]

Ah man, to be a new viewer again. I'm jealous!

[@custos3249]

Been there. Sucks it's (or was for me years ago) a pain in the butt trying to find all the episodes of Mythbusters.

[@padoco73]

Welcome! You're in for a treat.

[@kurtkyre]

Not where I thought this was going, but... Pleasantly not unexpected. Adam's drive to make it work is always inspiring.

[@Wood-In-My-Eye]

I think it’s great that Adam is definitely going down the rabbit hole of thousandth’s. Machining is fun therapeutic and absolutely rewarding. And just because he has very large machines in his shop. Doesn’t mean we can’t replicate the things he builds with our smaller machines. His just makes it go quicker. That’s about it.

[@davidgutting4317]

I machined a water droplet pattern with a ball end mill on one of those back in college. We used that At Translite Sonoma (Lighting Company) to make cylinder heat sink fins and vents using an arbor saw. If you want to mill a shaft slot guide (BMW motorcycle gear shifter). Mount it on its side on the mill and you can machine / lathe compound profiles. I would recommend making a guide to drop into the TSlots to find the center. I’ve got a small one of those to use on my harbor freight vertical mill and I do use it.

[@aguycalledlucas]

Adam, look up the Volstro Rotary milling head attachment. It’s the reverse configuration to a rotary table. Check it out!!

[@rpfPMC]

It's a cross slide rotary table. I have one very similar. Could be a vintage Palmgren or Craftsmen from the look. They can be extremely accurate. I used to make tooling patterns with it. You got to go old school and learn how to take up the slop when changing directions. Unless you are building watch or rocket engine parts, it's close enough! ; ) BTW, I was the guy who got the MCG Mauser for you for your Han Solo Blaster build.

[@troycongdon]

I have one of these, it came with my Bridgeport. I went through all of the stages of coping seen in this video. Excitement that it had so little use, anticipation of projects to come, pain realizing it was not a precision tool, and eventually accepting that it has no use to me. Mine has collected dust.

[@guytech7310]

LOL! It makes a better paperweight than a machining tool!

[@fciron]

Me three! Got it for a song and quickly realized there was a reason it seemed unused. Every time I thought something might be a good project for it I realized the x-y slides needed to be above the rotation. My thought is also that it’s best as a drill press accessory since it replicates an ordinary ro-tab mounted to a drill table. I suppose you could mount it on your mill at an angle to cut hex or octagons. 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@HomebrewHorsepower]

Neither my mill, nor my lathe have a DRO. I've had to learn how to use the physical scales on worn out analog machines. I contend that everyone should start by running analog machines with physical scales. I think you get a better understanding of what's happening between the machine and the work.

[@DaveCarpenter-cb3xb]

Adam, I got one of these about 7 years ago and so far......I've never had a project that needed it. Thanks for the suggestion of using it on the Drill Press. Wrench On!

[@penfold7800]

Thats EXACTLY the type of thing I would love alongside a small drill-press setup for amateur lock making. I would add a locking screw to hold the rotary movement of the table once I had set where I wanted it to be.

[@wvrockcrusher]

I have the Craftsman labeled version of that table. I picked it up at the flea market for cheap a couple of years ago. It has seen very little use and I have never used it ever, nor would I try to mill anything of great importance on it. You can take the center section out of it and make it more rigid, but still nothing like a real rotary table because they weren't intended to be in that class of tool. It would be fine for the drill press or doing something with wood. Still a neat little novelty item which is why I picked mine up in the first place.

[@steveevans9991]

Unmanteling? I do love your clips and the use of Savage-linguistics. Thank you for showing us all you do, it is truly inspirational. The way you pause when you think about how you feel about something, very aware and dare I say it enlightened. I'm an English teacher so when I hear the words you use it does bring a smile to my face. Keep producing!

[@brianacton8463]

The worm gear shaft supported on only one end is where practically all of that play comes from, the screw needs to be held tight to the recieving gear to eliminate it. But for machining concentric ID/ODs I'd still use it with that level of play. And add a brake screw if it doesn't have one for when the angle needs to be locked such as when machining with the X/Y axiis.

[@keithparsons3990]

I have used a compound rotary table. The purpose of it is to do multiple arcs from a single X,Y, offset.

[@mt6tools]

I have one of these also in near pristine condition. I also have a good sized lathe with a 24" swing. I made a cutter that mounts on the table and use this as a ball turner. Mostly for turning bowling balls down to fit in my mortar. There's some tolerance to bowling balls and the bigger ones need to be turned down to slide down my barrel. I center a piece of pipe in the chuck and use the live center in a finger hole to press the ball against the pipe. I then reposition the ball in another finger hole to get what I missed in the first pass.

[@Bob-jn8jt]

I never get tired of your videos.

[@KWHCoaster]

Yeah, I noticed the play at the start of the disassembly when you move the table's gear at 3:40, and it clicked, and thought that doesn't seem good. I was surprised by how coarse the worm gear was as well. Nice to see I'm not the only one grabbing the adjustable wrench when I have box end and sockets wrenches 😀

[@jamessawyer1830]

This is the knowledge that youtube needs to preserve.

[@robertthoelen1459]

I have one similar to this on my drill press. It’s great for bolt circles. I even did some milling. I don’t recommend milling on a drill press, but I needed to finish a pulley for my horizontal mill, so there is that.

[@andrewb2475]

I'm a time served toolmaker and in all my 40 years and working for several firms I've never seen one of these..........and now I'm seeing the reasons why!

[@skeggy1994]

a general tip for rotary tables only ever go in one direction if you go past your mark do a full rotation that way you will never have an issue with backlash i would look into making a way to lock the table on when you're in the right spot would sort out the table movement

[@striperman01]

Adam, I have an identical rotary table. I would bet it’s made by Palmgren. A google search brings up many examples. Nice tool to have!

[@DavidLindes]

I would bet so, too, after 6:35. 😂 Given what Adam goes on to say after that, I'm curious: what do you find yourself using it for? Where does it shine?

[@striperman01]

@@DavidLindes Ha Ha, well, yeah, that’s what happens when I comment before watching the complete video! My bad! I have used it for drilling holes on my drill press using the x-y function, and, have had success drilling holes in a circular pattern and cutting circular grooves on my milling machine. I’m an amateur, and, the work I have done does not require the level of precision that, I assume, Adam is looking to achieve. I might add, I also picked it up off of CL for a price I could not walk away from, It was dirty, but, appeared unused.

[@ElectronPower]

Not quite sure how the backlash would be an issue? I mean, if you changed the direction after you milled your first half circle (in order to mill another one, next to it, for example), the only thing you'd have to be careful about is to take up the backlash, before you start counting your turns/steps on the dial in the reverse direction. But as long as you only cut in one direction, the backlash will always be taken up. If you're afraid that the table will move too easily (for the amount of the backlash, that is) you could tighten it up a bit, if it has that option (that screw, to the left of the handle?) If not, you could always make something to "brake" the rotation a bit. Seems like a useful, heavy duty tool. The new ones certainly won't be as rigid, at least in lower price range. Thanks for posting! Love your shop improvement/sorting/DIY videos!

[@beauwilliamson3628]

Could probably be set up as a great mount for engraving/carving work. Just as a heavy vice/mounting plate to hold your piece as you work.

[@cerneysmallengines]

So... I used one when I went to machining school, Dunwoody for anyone who cares, and I remember it being needed for a certain part, but I also remember it being basically obsolescent with a 30 year old CNC machine, so take with it what you will. I know this, we have one at work and we use it on our drill press as a rudimentary milling machine add on, because you have the slight back and forth movements of the vise on the table. Ours has a lock that helps eliminate backlash, but that brake is also a wear component that itself is worn from people not knowing what they are doing.

[@michaellowe3665]

My dad used to have one of these. I used it a lot. We put it on our drill press and did some very light machining. It was also good for lining up to drill carefully or to drill multiple evenly spaced holes in something. One of his neighbors got it when we cleaned out his shop. They probably sold it on Craigslist.

[@joshuamartin7756]

Seems like it could be a useful drill press attachment! Drilling holes in a circle with reasonable precision.

[@ortzinator]

Yes he mentioned that

[@guytech7310]

Not really when you consider how you have to clamp a work piece using strap clamps and how difficult it is to center parts on it to be fully concentric. The part needs to be perfectically concentertic to the rotary table. A better (quicker option) is to just print out the hole pattern and use a punch to mark the hole pattern. You spend 30 to 40 minutes just trying to clamp the part maintaining concenteric position to the rotary table.

[@savannahm.laurentian1286]

My first thought on visual was "drill press." Late to the party, but here there's always cake enough for all makers!

[@vandalsgarage]

I've actually been on the hunt for one of those, for my big camel back drill press. You don't need one for most milling machines, but they're awesome for a big drill press.

[@JamesS.254]

One of my favorite things to do is rebuild mechanical devices. Disassembling cleaning and rebuilding something I have never seen before is relaxing and fun for me. As a bicycle mechanic of over 25 year's, if you like projects like this, try rebuilding a multi speed internally geared hub, start small at a 3 speed, and work your way up. I liked watching the disassembly in this video, just wish I could have watched the thought process in putting it back together, but I understand the disappointment when finding out a flaw in your new toy.

[@TheBellbros]

That “Alexa play” music transition to Timelapse was fantastic. 4:01

[@oakfieldscreativeworkshop]

Great food for thought, have looked into adding something like that to my drill press. But would now definitely buy the x,y and rotary separate. Which would allow for different configurations. 👍🏻

[@stanfischer6175]

I have what appears to be what you have, a Palmgrem 8" rotary table except mine has the tilting feature. While not rigid enough for normal rotary milling it has proved its worth when trying to locate holes on difficult to level work pieces.

[@clubdjmarcus]

Walter Tools has made low profile rotary tables with a slightly bigger faceplate but half the height of your tool. They also mount vertically and are accurate to several arc seconds, however they suffer the same backlash. They are meant to be clamped just like your current tool or use conventional milling. Those lower profile Walter Tools are not cheap though

[@jessicahenrich8928]

I have the same table. I use it on the drill press. I added a nylon shim on the rotary portion to remove backlash between the rotary adjust wheel and the base.

[@edwintripp1034]

I have an identical Palmgren table mounted on a 15 1/2 inch drill press usually with another X-Y table mounted on top and sometimes with a 4 inch rotary table clamped into the X-Y table for machining optical parts. I cannot imagine working without it as it simplifies all sorts of setups. Regarding the backlash, I have never experienced that level and normal compensation for the tiny amount of backlash present is trivial. And the discussion about complex cuts should now make the reason for my up to six degrees of freedom stack obvious.

[@williamabernathy2513]

I had one of those and got rid of it as well. The slop in the X-Y sections was additive and curved milling cuts weren’t good. I was able to reduce this by removing the middle “stage” and mounting the rotary table directly to the bottom casting, but then I found a real rotary table and Mr. Palmgren’s services were no longer required. Cute bit of kit, but kind of the machinist’s version of a Hondo guitar.

[@tinman5322]

Hold on Adam! Backlash is no bigger a deal in a rotary table than it is in the X axis of your mill. Just mill conventionally as opposed to climbing. You can even make light climb cuts if you drag the brakes. Also don't forget how easy it makes hole patterns.

[@philbert006]

To add to my earlier comment, it's could be useful as a rotary table of you kept your rotation in a single direction and never encountered the backlash. Possibly for roughing out a radius? Something you wanted to finish by hand for some extra detail? Maybe just a conversation piece? Boat anchor?

[@timbrown6221]

I have a good question?? How long did it take to get your man cave almost to where you have it now. And how would you set up a smaller shop/man cave??

[@ethanrchitty371]

I use mine in the drill press for mortising work on wood projects. Combined with a table pivot, they work great for setting legs for chairs.

[@beautifulsmall]

If you need the XY ontop, just mount it upside down. Or as others, drill-press, an xy table on that is a great addition.

[@rch317]

I've got an 18" Troyke and love it... I hate moving it, but i love it!

[@manythingslefttobuild]

Nice video Adam, looking forward to seeing it in Simone's shop.

[@nosuchuserid]

Seems simple enough to just flip it over and mount your stock on the bottom of the x-y table. I wouldn't worry about the backlash on the rotary table, either. Just set the lock to drag on the rotation and only rotate it in one direction. That's exactly what I have to do with my mill because it doesn't have a DRO.

[@componenx]

I have te same model Palmgren and the only use I've found for it is cutting circles that are too big for my small rotary table. I also have a Bridgeport 12" rotary table, but it can be hard to set up on my 3/4 size mill.

[@jaytalbot1146]

Backlash is also bad if climb milling, especially bad in that case. For positioning backlash can be compensated for, but if your milling cutter is broken you won't be doing much milling. Before DROs with hole pattern capability one might have used a rotary table for circular hole patterns, if one locks the table before machining and turns the handle the same direction when indexing, then backlash is not such a big deal. I'm not so sure the rotary backlash can't be adjusted, @4:51 one can see a couple of socket head screws near the end of the worm shaft opposite the hand wheel, if those were loosened could one push the worm closer to the worm wheel reducing the backlash? Serious rotary table have the worm shaft on an eccentric to allow easy adjustment of the lash, but if one buys one of those Palmgrens one gets what they pay for. @11:35 While it make setup more complicated, one could mount the Palmgren upside down, or since it is the 21st century, one could just use CNC. While a 6 or 8 inch rotary table looks cute, when one tries clamping anything to the top one will quickly wish for more space for the clamps even if the work piece itself is less than 6 inches.

[@danmenes3143]

Like you say, mostly a drill press attachment for a home shop that does not have a milling machine. The backlash would not be a huge issue provided the table has a satisfactory lock. Most manual machines have backlash--you just have to make sure you are always moving the table in the same direction while making a critical measurement. More to the point, if you have a milling machine, the X-Y axes are entirely redundant, and take up valuable Z travel. One safety issue, if anyone were to use this on a drill press, it should be used for hole positioning, not for milling. At least that's what "they" say, whoever "they" are. Milling on many drill presses is risky, because the chuck is mounted on a taper with no drawbar. Without a drawbar, the lateral forces generated during milling can cause the taper to work loose.

[@phantom246]

🍺🕶👍dude all i use this is for is milling an angle cut in a Stright line, so you're not limited to 90-degree cuts. that's all i use this for. imagine an etcher sketch with a knob that move only in a diagonal direction...... i love this . the old way i was doing straight angle cuts was unbolting my vice and taking it off of 90. with this its way faster.. i.d.k. what else this would be used for but for me and my purpose i absolutely love it . even the small amount of backlash. it saves me lots of time in the long run.

[@jameshisself9324]

Cool. Not sure of the use of the X-Y portion when your machines all have X-Y tables. I wouldn't want those as they just add 2 more potential error vectors that would have to constantly be checked to ensure accuracy. For a drill press or anything lacking X-Y it would be a great item! EDIT: I see you have concluded similar. Removing backlash by making more precise parts is a great machining project. 😊 The use case you illustrated of a 1/4 radii rectangle would be more easily accomplished with a 1/2 end mill and a simple X-Y rectangle. Don't you think?

[@fabricationnation8052]

I believe they were mainly made for a drill press

[@olieboer]

Not when you want to round the outer corners

[@Jake_A]

Angled work

[@2testtest2]

For a pocket, yes just use the radius of the endmill, but for a lid to go inside the pocket, not so much

[@wheatbelly8274]

Adam, did you consider looking at it upside down? Couldn’t you secure the rotary table to your mill bed upside down and mount a t-slot table to the bottom of the device (that’s now on top) where you would normally bolt to your mill bed? That would give you the rotary table on the bottom and the cross slide on top. Another comment mentioned securing the far end of the worm screw to reduce backlash. A little bearing (ball or bronze) housed in a piece of metal that’s welded in place could help solve that issue. I have a semi-universal dividing head (aka: tilting rotary table), the backlash is sort of adjustable by allowing you to adjust pressure between the worm screw and worm wheel. It comes down to necessary level of precision. You could always get close and mark it with layout fluid and grind it down by hand with an angle grinder. Wether that would work or not would depend on acceptable windows of GD&T and what you’re trying to accomplish and how steady your hands are with the grinder. Did you consider mounting a grinder on the rotary cross slide and using that to control the movement of the grinder to carve out gouges? If a tool doesn’t quite work for its intended purpose, I always try to look at it upside down and backwards before I decide if it’s “useless” or not. Even if I decide I can’t use it, I save it for the parts/mechanisms, in case I want to use them on a future project.

[@anthonygandy1090]

some of the rotary tables have an off center bushing on the worm gear that you can rotate to adjust backlash.

[@brunothehumble]

so I have a fun piece of info. we had one of those back in my old shop in middle school and was equipped on our large drill press. the design and intention for this device was to enable keeping the piece locked in place and allow for indexing and/or rotating for hole patterns and more accurate drilling. it really is only made for use on a drill press like you said. but if you had a second large drill press it does make a fantastic tool for a maker that has smaller parts that need some decent accuracy. especially since that unit has a locking feature to lock the rotation to keep things more consistent.

[@peterwill3699]

I'm certain there's a way to take up the backlash. Did you check it before you took it apart ? A grate use is to o ring heads on motorcycle cylinders and heads.

[@stevenbutler4080]

Would make for an interesting build if you tried milling a new acme thread that eliminated that backlash and maybe add some digital readouts to it. Also why not try and build a rotary table with the X/Y on top of the rotary table. :) Would love to see how you accomplish that.

[@johnmcclain3887]

I've got a very similar machine tool, made by Palmgren. I've only used mine once, but it was good for that one use. It's good for a few esoteric use, but I've got many machine tools that are equally esoteric. I just got to "digital readout" on my machine tools in this century. It's great for bolt circles and that is about it. I must say, my first "milling machine" was a fifty plus year old drill press with a cheap Chinese X/Y table, so I've used my table a few times, but I do have a Bridgeport to do my general milling these days.

[@aserta]

You can fix that backlash. Remove the existing bushings and machine new ones that offset the shaft of the drive axle in, towards the rotary table's gear.

[@violinmiata]

I love beautifully made tools that have one issue that makes them useless! My collection of woodworking hand planes grows ever larger.

[@Jay9999]

That rotary table can work fine if you turn the handle clockwise only while machining. To take out the backlash. Use conventional milling instead of climb milling. Also you can snug the lock/clamp screw on the Chuck mounting plate to make the set up more rigid.

[@m3Tesla]

I'm having a problem seeing the difference between having the X-Y above or below the rotary. Seems to me that you can accomplish the same results either way. With the rotary on top you have to rotate way less mass.

[@nosuchuserid]

The issue is that the center of rotation doesn't move independently of x-y. To cut out the part he illustrated without having x-y axis' on top of the table, he would have to cut a radius, then move in x or y. Once that is done, he would have to take the entire setup apart to get the center of rotation under the next corner. With the x-y on top of the table, the part moves and the center of rotation doesn't need to change position. As an amateur machinist, I'm never interested in trying to replicate a setup once I've started cutting because it's not good for accuracy.

[@cunningstunt9226]

The only way I can see this being useful would be to allow the cutting of bigger radius and bolt patterns on a mill, by setting the y axis so the rotary table is effectively hanging over the edge of the bed. For the backlash issue using the gib/lock screws before drilling would eliminate chatter and so long as you are always rotating in the same direction it’s a non issue, if you were trying to cut an S shape however then it might become an issue, but changing direction with the lock screws engaged until backlash is taking up before beginning the radius would be an adequate solution. Overall quite an interesting tool but for a mill, unless you have a very specific use case probably something you don’t need

[@13dirtblack]

ooooh.... the larger radius with the rotary table hanging over the edge is a VERY good idea. I got this same tool and will now try that out

[@lordgandalf22]

It looks amazing inside adam. and i would see a use on a drillpress. but in general i think its used mostly for when you need just that bit extra x y z to reach that last bit of space on youre working material.

[@VoidedWarranty]

Where I'd use it? X/y at an angle not aligned with the machine xy. That would be beautiful for making wcmt insert pockets. Also, the backlash doesn't matter you always work from one side of the backlash and lock the travel with the lock screw before the cut

[@ianmoone2359]

Normally on a rotary table there’s a way to adjust the worm to reduce backlash. It’s typically that the worm is on an eccentric cam, that pushes the worm into its crown gear closer to reduce backlash or moves it away to ease up on how closely the teeth mesh & this controls your backlash. My “suspicion” is that perhaps when you dis- assembled the rotary table you altered the amount of mesh between the teeth and didn’t adjust that out via the eccentric cam positioning lever when you re-assembled it. I could be wrong but we didn’t get to see any of that footage so hard to say. The reason there’s usually a lever and lock is so you can swing the worm away from the gear all together to be able to “free spin” the rotary table by hand, without having to wind the handle through 360 degrees to check for any parts interference with your mill table or vertical dovetail for the knee or spindle after you have mounted the table and the workpiece, & before you commence milling. You don’t want to be half way through milling a radius when you suddenly find out that there’s a physical interference between your workpiece and the mill that you didn’t foresee. So you swing the worm out the way on it’s eccentric cam laver when it’s unlocked so the teeth aren’t engaged, spin the table and mounted workpiece through the full 350 degrees by hand, because the worms not engaged, then once you know it’s all clear you swing the worm back into engagement with the eccentric cam and lever, adjust the backlash and lock it in place. So if there’s that type of functionality in your rotary table that you didn’t recognise then it’s possible you introduced the backlash unintentionally. I know my dividing head has this type of function as does my tilting rotary table. Maybe that’s something you should get? A tilting rotary table! Think of the possibilities. You made a fly cutter with 15 degree angle and you want to chamfer the edge? 🤷‍♂️ Cantered in a Chuck mounted to your rotary table, & table tilted to 15 degrees, mount your chamfer tool in the mill and around you go - perfect milled chamfer on a angled round plane. Just one example. He who dies with the most tools wins Adam. You know you now need a tilting rotary table. Relegate that XY rotary table to your drill press & move on to a tilting rotary table. You know you want to. 👍

[@kennethelwell8574]

It would be a perfect milled *round* chamfer on an angled *elliptical* (15 degree) plane, but it would be uniform and look cool... or get closer with 2 smaller and 2 larger arcs like compass drawn isometric ellipses.

[@tonypires8816]

My brother gave me one exactly like that and my conclusion after trying to use it on my mill was exactly the same. I use it with a speed vise on my Delta UniDrill. Perfect combo and similar opinions. Both look super cool but near misses in function. The Palmgren is sloppy and the UniDrill is meant for wood w/spindle speed of 450 to 4300 rpm :( I’m a metal worker, not a woodworker. I get by but am keeping an eye out for a different head I can put on the UniDrill base.

[@jasoncox7244]

I have a rotary table with x-y axis very similar if not identical to that one and discovered the same challenges with it, lol. No idea who manufactured mine, since no clear markings... mine has significantly less backlash in the rotary part, but that might be because I haven't pulled it apart and cleaned it like you did (that was the next step on my todo list for that tool...) If that's the case the following step (putting a shallow taper in the center for reference) might still be useful....

[@Vickie-Bligh]

Thanks for the education. Love your explanations.

[@mfx1]

The backlash on the rotary part really isn''t an issue as you'd usually only be going in one direction and either milling a circle or locking the table at each angular point you need.

[@Xs2...]

So what's the use for those grooves on top ? For clamping stuff down ?

[@BigPitter]

As always great video, BUT what's that small powerfull "pocket light" that Adam is using to look at the label??? I NEED ONE so small and powerfull.

[@EldritchFyre]

Might be stamped Chicago - but I have one that's identical, but under the Palmgren name. Good for cutting arcs and circles - not likely something that may be used every day, but definitely handy when it's needed.

[@NormanIronn]

Not a thing wrong with it. Your only going to cut in one direction which means it will always be in contact with the worm gear. If you need to back up you just need to take note of the reading on the scale and go back to that place. That's the problem of starting out with digital readouts and never having to use the scales on a machine. Unit is excellent for circular hole patterns. Just tighten the large lock screw on the side when your in position.

[@timothystevenhoward]

"In 1915 Carl Palmgren was working for Steel Art Tool Co. (SATCO). In 1919 he established Chicago Tool & Engineering Co. to make vises and rotary tables. By 1970 they were doing business as Palmgren Steel Products for their vises and Palmgren Precision Products for their air and hydraulic power units. At some point-in or before 1998-they officially changed their name to Palmgren Steel Products, Inc. In 2013 C.H. Hanson acquired Palmgren Steel Products, Inc."

[@guyrivers1143]

Ya know Im not going to lie I really do miss you blowing stuff up .... still a big fan

[@charlesmayberry2825]

The XY tables like that are for a Drill Press, on a milling rotary table you don't need that XY adjustment, Just the rotational Axis, because the table itself takes care of the X/Y capability. These tools are almost exclusively for doing bolt circles on a drill press machine. They are for low criticality projects. The reason you'd use this in a shop setting is if you have a low criticality project and don't want to tie up a production machine. On the note of backlash, to explain to people why you can't eliminate it fully, is if you tighten the half nut to the screw tight enough to eliminate it, it binds, and will strip out the half nut, The secret to repeatability is whatever direction you took your measurements from needs to be in the direction of the cut or the tool load for a plunge operation, you need to measure and cut in that same load direction, which will give you extreme repeatability even with a machine that doesn't have a DRO, as long as your indicators are good, and your machines scale on the handles is good. (if you haven't done much manual machining without a DRO, You use travel indicators against a fixed surface or measured point to make sure you're repeating exactly, for pinning and screw operations, you use something like an Indicol and machinist buttons to get your repeat and accuracy) I expect many here know these things, but there are a fair amount of people that may not, and so this post is mostly clarification coming from someone that has worked in a production and tool making environment where we used both manual machines without DROs up through modern CNC machines. Part of my job was not only operating machines, but learning how to service them. Small shop, we were all expected to be able to do a good chunk of maintenance if needed.

[@freestyla101]

Made for a drill press as the x/y function is not needed with a mill. As for the backlash you would take cuts in one direction so I’m not sure why the backlash would matter unless the end mill wants to make the table move back and forth on its pivot?

[@chieft3357]

I have an X,Y, rotary table and have made many special parts on it that could not be purchased. Use it properly and you will like the quality of the items you produce. Now, they are small items and I used it to produce small internal engine parts not available in production for racing engines.

[@ronitsingh85]

you can easily make a nice drill press table with that rotary table, it will look super! I have a craftsman one that I picked up for real cheap. It does not have that kind of slop at all on the rotary table. I guess maybe after cleaning it I will find out! again I agree with you it looks super cool and great for a drill press, especially a floor model cause you have all that space between the drill table and chuck.

[@THEHARMONIKZ]

Adam slapped that XY 47 times. Pretty brutal.

[@russhellmy]

I'm almost certain that backlash can be adjusted out. Backlash adjustment is done on most rotary tables by turning an eccentric bush the required amount (to increase or decrease the engagement of the worm screw into the worm gear) and then locking that bush position by a screw. The eccentric bush is usually in the housing where the screw shaft penetrates the housing. Every rotary table I've ever seen has backlash adjustment. If this is an unusually cheap and imprecise rotary table (perhaps meant for home hobbiest making wood templates for metal sand casting impressions?) Then I guess it's possible it doesn't have the adjustment bush, but it seems illogical to leave it that $1 part which renders the rotary table un-adjustable. But it could easily be modified to add an eccentric bush in the housing

[@deplorablepiratecaptaingunberd]

Alec Steele has some videos where he uses something similar. I'd have to go back and rewatch his videos from the last couple of years to find the specific ones

[@padrickogrady8243]

Think we just got a glimpse into Adam Savage on Christmass morning.

[@JohnSmith-gm4fj]

Love you man! If it were me, I would pull it apart and fix the backlash issue, maybe something as simple as a preload nut would do it, I don't know. After getting rid of the backlash I would seriously consider cnc steppers for the x y and r it could really be a game changer if you're doing a lot of machining and you can't justify a full CNC big massive mill. Hand cranking that circle belongs to a different century.

[@unitedbolts8053]

Adam, that is not for milling operations. I have one similar and it is for mounting on a drilling machine without the xy table. On the top you mount a chuck like the one in the lathe. And you use this tool to make holes on flanges for wheels, transmission couplings, pipe couplings etc . Only drilling holes. No milling. The purpose of the X y is to positionate quickly to the necessary diameter where the holes will be made. Look for the lock screws in all axis, you suppose to tight them to block all in place before executing the holes.

[@wanglydiaplt]

Back at the dawn of time the shop I worked at used a similar arrangement to orient wafers after slice-and-dice to align them in x and y for a robot to grab the individual segments and put them on a lead frame. The machine we built went to International Rectifier and it made TO-220 transistors at the rate of one per second. A very fun build but to do it right yagotta start with top quality components. 🙂

[@BlueLightSpecial2023]

Sounds like one of those rare times that Adam made a purchase before doing his research. We have all done it at least once. 🙂

[@Tehbom]

I loved 'its rare you find something so untouched' after just calling it a glorified drill press attachment. Classic case of buying first and researching second

[@DarkestVampire92]

I'd say it would be quite useful for a drill press, where the force comes from above rather than from the side. But i'm sure you have something far more precise for your drill press already.

[@coilmotorworks]

Work in one direction and the back lash is less of a problem. This works on almost all machines with any back lash. Lock the table while making heavy still cuts.

[@TommyBoy7Heads]

I had one that looked just like that from a manufacturer called Palmgren. It was always disappointing to use and I sold it.

[@DavidHerscher]

It’s made by palmgren. The badged them for craftsman, and others, but the castings are made by palmgren. Take off one of the axis completely and lock the other one down tight as possible, then just use the rotary and will be "ok"

[@FrancisoDoncona]

Mount it to a large 90 degree base for a forth axis work on a milling table. Or use it on a surface grinder. I have a Volstro which is small and delicate but has the neato factor.

[@first_namelast_name4923]

Simple and easy. Fix the rotary table to the table of your mill. Upside down. Fix a piece of plate to what is now a bottom and screw a wise to it and now you have a rotary table with an X-Y table on top. Plus, there must be a way to minimize backlash, even if it is only a bungee cord wrapped around the table that pulls it to one direction. Stefan Gotteswinter has two rotary tables (without X-Y table beneath, I think) and he says he uses them once a few years. This thing might be very useful in making a circular hole patterns, because the number of teeth on the worm drive wheel (I would guess 40) multiplies precision of the angle of the crank 40 times. This is not as critical when you have a DRO on your mill that can be used to compute circular patterns. Somebody night want to use this to build a small mill - buy a milling head from Proxxon, build a Z axis ...

[@romansanti4557]

On boy what a find! I have been looking for one for a good price for years, I know you want to giggle I would!