ADC Is Not Real

[@theScoreesports]

How can Riot fix ADC? Visit progressive.com today to see if you could save on your car insurance.

[@T4RG0N]

Riot just needs to nerf the tank role's dmg. I think removing the dmg of heartsteel, nerfing the dmg of sunfire and thornmail, nerfing the ad scaling of mundo, ap scaling of tahm kench, just gutting tank dmg. this is how to save the adc role. back in the days the main reason for an adc was to take down the tanks. nowadays tanks can just 1-3 shot an adc for no reason at all. if you dont play pixel perfect as adc a tahm kench or shen, or cho or any other tank can just walk into you auto you twice for half your hp and go away, now you either die or you're out of the fight, if we want to bring the role to its traditional times we need to bring out the traditional purpose. assasins can still oneshot you, mages can still oneshot you, those are the true jobs of both of these roles, but having a tank that is practically unkillable unccable unstopable all that can just 2 shot you is absurd, if i play anything other than kaisa or a mobile champ mundo will just walk straight towards me, being immune to cc because of his passive, and movement speed thanks to his ult, and i just die insta no counterplay. That is the single way to bring back the role to what it was. an actually PLAYABLE role.

[@trippibethea7599]

ADC's need unique items, that only they can buy. Because other champs buying and abusing their items, like BoRK , lead to nerfs that unfairly affect them. Also, all other roles need damage nerfs.

[@unnlucky333]

by bringing the class identity back and actually rewarding good play instead of relying on an overtuned babysitter support that allows adcs to make it to late game and get 2 shot instead of 1 shot

[@privatjetconnaisseur]

before patch 6.12 zigggs was the only viable botlaner because mages were missing turret damage. that patch they increased the ap scaling from .3 to .5 on autos vs turrets. the adc in early league had the identity of taking down turrets quickly. nowadays there is no necessity for it, as there is way less splitpush and macroplay overall and whoever wins the teamfight gets to take objectives. u dont need to think about having good nash DPS in your team or sth. back then u needed a cassiopeia or an adc or else u couldnt even 5 man a nash, whilst nowadays u can often do it with 2. turrets should get 0 resistances and more HP or just dmg reduction, so that the armor and magic pen from mages and assassins doesnt work against turrets anymore. (granted if adcs were doing maths they would have % armor pen instead of collector every game) reduce the ap scaling on autos vs turrets, remove the attackspeed shard in the runes and make sure that mages that are played in botlane scale well with level. mages often dont need to level their 3rd spell (ziggs e.g. kinda only needs to max Q) so for the ADCs that get more attackspeed and AD for each level, they want the sololane EXP whilst mages dont need it. thats literally what the swain rework is for thats coming in 14.21 btw. by design, adcs dont want to be in a duolane. they cant use their great earlygame as much there and they take longer to get to the lategame. u'd rather want a champ that only needs lv 13, whilst still getting full gold and even if u want a supp for the adc like an enchanter, u can put taht bot and then have the adc with solo EXP in lategame.

[@Fgtr4Life]

Honestly, I don't think there is a "fix" for this. The game has changed, for better or worse, with how much movement there is. I think it's time all us players adjust with the game as well. If that means playing new champs, cool. If that means taking the ADC champs you like to other lanes, also cool. It would require the gutting or overbuffing of many a kit to get back to the old status quo. I don't think it's a problem to evolve with the game, especially when the "solution" would probably require either complete overhauls to movement options overall or the massive buffing/nerfing of champ kits that will just make everyone unhappy.

[@GhostMan407]

the fact that they changed corki into and adc and hes still played mid is proof enough

[@oishiich.4814]

For real. I was so excited to hear their plan for him, but when pros never played him bot and played him mid even *more*, weirdly enough they just left him there and no more plan for bot lane suddenly

[@CiCi_Artenjoy]

@@oishiich.4814 why would anyone play him in bot where there is enough CC to kill him :D it's easier to just play the 1v1 at mid.

[@willho4202]

We'll never have a Doublelift vs C9 on Lucian moment again, he would've died instantly nowadays

[@mikkelsalling1422]

adc just dominated the game for 6 months please dont

[@zeyadhossam8193]

@@mikkelsalling1422 for 2 months , and in mid lane not bot lane lmao , meanwhile mages bot lane were broken for more than 3 years and nothing was done , briusers until this split were broken for god knows how long , support and jungle has been broken for years and riot do that on purpose because "no one will play them if they are not OP" , please you dont talk

[@queenbowsette9541]

The lies lmao ​@@mikkelsalling1422

[@ashtonshephard3852]

​@@mikkelsalling1422 and it had nothing to do with bot lane strength, solo lane sustain and fated ashes were just too strong

[@mandrews93]

In competitive, you can use voice comms to plan your fight and get peel for the adc. In solo q, you're reliant on your teammates to understand that you need peel, and many players simply don't care about you as the adc.

[@James-Given]

True because I can lock in Lee Sin and be the ultimate peel for my ADC but I lose a lot of the late game carry potential if everyone gets to 6 items and I have to rely on my ADC to position well, play safer, farm well, and listen to calls. But since I’m low elo (bronze) they rarely do that so it’s safer to lock in a carry champ and carry the game myself rather than rely on someone else. It’s a shame because I enjoy playing Lee Sin. I like diving in and out and peeling for my team but I can only do that if I can communicate with my team (voice coms) or if they know that I need someone to W to to get out of trouble.

[@phoenixflamegames1]

But they got that far to begin with without coms

[@yrga7195]

I'd rather play selfish and fight ini the enemies' face or try to flank. whats in it for me? why should I risk my time and effort for someone who I dont know?

[@IIMiikexDII]

@@yrga7195 It's a matter of context. If you play selfishly when you have an adc who has proven to be able to carry well, then that's it, you're just a selfish player. Don't risk it if the adc isn't good though lol

[@yrga7195]

@@IIMiikexDII only context is this: its solo q. im playing a game to have fun and enjoy (its league, people forget why we are PLAYING). doesnt matter if adc is 100/0 or it will win the game, why should I put myself on the line and do something much more than protecting a stranger on the internet and help them have fun. I would rather do my own thing first. my plan. if I was a taric, thresh, braum then sure i would enjoy that because the purpose and satisfying acts of these champs. if I am orn, ksante, aatrox, garen. in fact aatrox, garen are bruisers who build assassin and crit items with little defense. yes I can take hits for you but its not really pleasing or fun for me to do that. theres no gratifying reward. LP? not enticing enough. I'd rather go in front of the enemy swinging. I did not farm for 25 mins just to be someone's shield thats not my fun. I doubt thats many people's definition of fun coz it sute as hell aint mine. I will help this stranger have his fun shooting people with the cost of my own pleasure? I should wait for the K6 to attack before Ieave this jhin who is ulting while the team is doing another nearby and im not supposed to join? No thank you

[@AceUndaunted27]

Getting rid of giant slayer on LDR was such a dumb decision

[@khaagos]

I used to go Botrk-LDR-Kraken on every adc because I could melt tanks and Rito too thay away from me...

[@Sinaeb]

@@khaagos You didn't need those to melt actual tanks, you needed those to maybe possible survive a random champ that can just dive you, one shot you, dive another, one shot him too, and then just get away freely because he's also immune to any cc, oh and he also lost 0 health even tho you spent all your spells as soon as you saw him

[@gerhardaryawardana72]

​@@SinaebYou needed all 3 since heartsteel and K'Sante (and also Jaksho initially) became a thing. ADCs needed the armor pen and %HP damage to have any chance when they gave tanks super scaling HP + burst damage, stacking armor and MR, and with K'Sante they gave a super tanky champ mobility, CC Immune, and so on as well. That one update started the downhill trend for bot lane ADC imho.

[@mithex8414]

Solo queuing as an ADC in league is incredibly hard to climb. Your matchups are so inconsistent, half of your supports are autofilled and don't understand how to lane properly with their picks, and your team the majority of the time doesn't understand how to play around you.

[@IIMiikexDII]

Even when you duo with a support main it's still hard to climb since even when you win lane, you generally can't make up for a bad jungler or top lane. It's rough lol, made me quit ranked in like s6

[@isaacmcdaniel6278]

thats why as an adc i dont even try to team fight anymore. i run ap kaisa and poke from a mile away till the fights decided and i can rush in to kill steal effectively or just play something like trist and split push all game winning by capitalizing on a bad baron attempt to rush down lanes and take inhibs because im sorry but if you have baron but two super minion lanes pushing to you not much real pushing is happening.

[@jamesw9178]

The lava lamp over your left shoulder wasn't on, I'm not mad, just disappointed.

[@jovi_skips]

Up. He needs to know

[@WokeishJester]

As a former ADC main/league addict, I slowly stopped queuing up as much about two seasons ago. I didn't know how to put it into words but it really felt like all the champs I used to love playing just seemed incompatible with the game. Tbf, I was a gold/silver player who really grinded normal draft because doing ranked while in school made me not a happy person so not by any means the best player in the world, but it seemed like no matter what I tried to do, I just couldn't get that adc feel like I used to when I started playing the game years ago

[@talkingzack4926]

ADC can’t hurt you

[@lancerbrix]

I think the main identity of ADC in general is range. ADC used to be called an ADR for a reason. Because it used to be a role where you can deal damage to another champion without them hitting back to you. I played a lot of DOTA 1 back before I started playing league and Traxex was my go hero back then. So when I started playing league I fell in love with the role of being an ADR on where I can have range advantage with my opponent. Yeah I will die from them if they can get on top of me but that's on me because I didn't position well. That was a lot of fun back then but now with all of the mobility and champions and items that have an easy access to get on top of me is the most frustrating part. Like yeah I get that you need to reach me for you to counter my range advantage but you should just have one or even two ways of doing that. Not a gazillion skills and items that will help you out. And for some other roles that complain about adc ruining their lane just because they have range advantage that's the reason why positioning are important. You and me should be rewarded for having better position but your dashes shouldn't be so overwhelming to the point that flashing it won't even going to be enough.

[@Eliagiulio]

After the Tristana Mid debacle, I doubt they'll ever find a proper balance between botlane adc's being hyperbroken or being useless

[@sytherwusky]

Riot needs to adjust their strategy

[@privatjetconnaisseur]

its been 6 years btw that mages make up the top 10 of botlaners. literally when someone asks me for botlane coaching i tell them to play mages and come back when they are 500 LP higher. usually takes them less than 2 months, they hate me when thats all advice they get. but all of them come back to me and are grateful and laugh about how ppl are still playing adcs that arent kog maw. was the exact same in 2018.

[@Terrencehill19]

I somewhat agree. But what I don't understand is how you describe on-hit builds as not being a "normal" ADC-Build...? On hit has been a normal ADC buildpath for many years. Kog'maw for example has pretty much always built on-hit since his W is better with on-hit items and he likes attackspeed. Do you mean to say that crit items just aren't as strong ? that is very possible. And also with LDR being useless now bcs it just has 5% more armorpen than mortal reminder, but has no passive, I'm assuming on-hit is just generally better for every champ that can use on-hit. And ADCs with crit prob most of the time have problems with keeping up except a few exceptions like jhin, jinx and so on....

[@quasar2880]

adc players heads will explode if they cannot build crit cloaks every game

[@freshlymemed5680]

@@quasar2880 Wait till you realize only a fraction of ADCs can effectively build on-hit.

[@lost_lament]

wait until you find out majority of adc kits scale directly with crit XDDDD

[@Rhyolite-hyena]

Wait till you realize onhit adcs can only go 3 onhit items at best now due to AS cap, and Kogmaw's full build is half AP with Shadowflame Voidstaff/DC. Kaisa is also like that. Not sure abt Varus but I think he either half tank or half AP if playing onhit. So, the "tradition" since this season are mostly AP dmg not even mixed anymore, there're much less autos windows. The "adcs" who go onhit are 2/3 AP dmg now, may as well calling them AP Auto Carries like Kayle

[@Rhyolite-hyena]

@@quasar2880 The "adcs" who go onhit are 2/3 AP dmg now btw, may as well calling them AP Auto Carries like Kayle

[@Unknown-gc7tn]

ADC is useless. A mundo with 2-3 items will have about 2 times the ad with 10 times the health

[@GiRR007]

I have no idea why people complain about seeing a champion in more than 1 lane... Like do you not like being able to play more of the game?

[@gNk1nG]

it wouldnt be a problem if the gameplay pattern wasnt stupidly boring to play and watch.

[@fierystorm6649]

As someone who doesn't play league, I have no idea what an ADC is but I kinda understand what’s going on

[@worldiefeard8396]

tldr: it stands for "Attack Damage Carry", or marksman, their original design was that the bulk of their damage would come from autoattacks (so literally just right clicking people to death), and their perk would be that they have very high sustained DPS after a few items. As the video says, problematic being that there's so much mobility in the game that your DPS doesn't matter if everyone and everything can dive you and kill you in half a second (including tanks btw), and if you're in a position where you're safe to spam autoattacks, it either means you're already winning, or you're playing in proplay where the entire team is coordinating to keep you alive (and even that doesn't always work)

[@fierystorm6649]

@@worldiefeard8396 Thanks :)

[@TabbuEme]

The Attack Damage Carry role when everyone has a lot of damage and can close the distance and is tankier:

[@KTSamurai1]

traditional adc have long been outclassed in the game. there's too much damage on champs with too much hp and those champs also have high mobility, slows, stuns, etc. power creep has left characters like ashe behind champs like ashe need to be low hp to make the trade-off of all that damage reasonable. but that should apply to everyone else, too. tanks should not be murdering adc's 1on1 in late game, bruisers should not be living as long while playing the front line, assassins need to be out of gas on their first rotation and basically be doomed if they whiff everything and are standing in the middle of the enemy team. every other role has gotten more, adcs have stayed more or less the same when theyre not pseudo bruisers like nilah or whatever great place to start? give traditional adcs more mobility. give ashe a dash on a low cooldown, give jinx a tumble, etc. at least with some skill-dependant mobility options they stand some kind of a chance if their flash is down

[@Lensquik]

tanks doing as much damage as bruisers/fighters/any damage oriented champion with their stupid "max health%" damage is the dumbest thing ever, alongside the tanks that have movement like assasin junglers i love when mundo can build 0 attack damage items but do INSANE damage because of heartsteel and his q doing 30% MAX HEALTH DAMAGE????? ON 4 SECOND COOLDOWN??!!!!! it feels like every single tank that isnt support has insane 1v1 priority while building fully tank, they have both the strength of being hard to kill and not having the weakness of being slow or doing little damage **200 years of development experience**

[@andreitaker3527]

The downside of giving them dash is that they would just move to mid like what happen in the pros for the past few months, and people hated that. I thinks it's about time Riot let people play champions on other roles.

[@advbassdrop3956]

Your only making the problem worse the long and short of it is we need to take some of the mobility out of the game and hard nerf both tanks and mages. Mages one shot from way beyond adc range even if they only hit one ability or sometimes it's even point and click and tanks can run you down with hyper mobility and you can't even do enough damage to kill them. If you wanna make it fair without changing anything it's simple we have to actually have cooldowns again Leona shouldnt have a 1.5 second stun on a 3 second cooldown I'm not saying g to go back to season 1 where it had a 15 second cooldown but it needs to be like 5 or 6 and dashes need to either be slower/ more telegraphed or get the same treatment a dash is a commitment you don't get it back in 3 seconds

[@LeThougLiphe]

Forgiven was the prime example of how ADC should be played. People nowadays are not willing to put any effort to improve their mechanics for ADC cause there are simply easier and more busted alternatives, and the general meta doesn't work around a TF2 VIP gamemode anymore, where the team plays for the ADC as they used to.

[@DWgic]

Bro Viper on MF against BLG legit dodged 3 separate engagements only to instanrly die to the fourth engage. That isn't an adc problem...

[@andronicodelrosario773]

doesn’t matter how mechanically godly you are when positioning, kiting, etc. you get 5-man dove every game and you die. you also get flamed to kingdom come even if it’s not your fault that you got dove by a 5-man dive comp. you pick something else, you get flamed. ADC is in a shit state right now.

[@freshlymemed5680]

You mean the mechanics of running around trying to avoid dying only to get caught once and instantly being taken out of the fight?

[@cookingcommander]

tbh, the crit item are just getting nerfed all the time, want crit ? no lifesteal to stay alive. want attack speed ? forget about dmg. want dmg? have fun with 1.01 attack speed. that plus the sheer burst and dashes... unplayable. when adc need barrier just to not be deleted from nowhere in 0.2sec, you know you better forget it. that udyr or voli cant 1v2 you, and your support... and hes gonna gain more life than you cant do damage, plus you cant even move out really. stay in the back (like out of screen) until they forget you exist and pick up scraps after teamfight. there i vented out.

[@cookingcommander]

ho and if you wanna do your actual job and peel tanks... hahahaha you are a funny guy. they have a heartsteal and you dont.

[@JMQA1]

Why is is "not okay" for ADCs to be busted/op/strong? They should just lower damage in the game and increase lifesteal for ADCs to stay alive in long fights

[@ashtonshephard3852]

I think more sources of life steal would be nice, but at lower amounts, like 2-5%, reduce bloodthirsters life steal if ADC has more access to lifesteal, and honestly I want move speed meta back, maybe adding a little more movespeed back. Either that or just make ADC THE tank busting class like it's supposed to be

[@LargeMcBottoms]

The game is evolving. Your can play marksman champs in other roles. You just don't have a support holding your hand anymore This is good for the game

[@ashtonshephard3852]

Riot doesn't want adcs in solo lanes though, what happened to trist being allowed mid, they destroyed her, fuck she's been more popular mid since like season 12

[@ProxyBeats]

i knew i was onto something with 1 shot draven

[@Anonymous-td9fl]

Thank you, now please repeat it louder for the low elo people in the depths. Adc has been hard to play in low elo for a while. One of the online freaks’ goto was legit “just get ziggs and climb”.

[@James-Given]

As a low Elo jungle player, I always path to bot lane because it’s basically just an atm because I can just one shot them as Briar. Even more so if they’re an immobile carry.

[@robertgrant559]

Leagues problem for me has always been that it seems as if Rito are trying to make every champ feel like they can have their hero moment where they 1v3 and win the game for their team. Which means every champ needs to be able to do damage so a role thats all about "damage carry" without getting the same mobility and utility as the other roles while only doing marginally more damage while also being way squishier just doesnt make sense, and when they make an adc with that utility and mobility you get Samira. And because its played bot lane it always ends up behind in levels vs the rest of the game, by the time the enemy mid/top/jgl are level 6 the adc/supp is around level 4 or 5 so if mid rotates or top tp you probably just die.

[@hamburgerlover9825]

it’s 2018 again baby get bwipo in the botlane

[@TiboFPS]

Isn’t this simply the natural evolution of a game that is so well defined in its core identities of play styles, we were always headed this direction. What we’re seeing now is a simply faster version of the game that we saw back in the day. There’s more damage than ever in the game.

[@shrimpyy8468]

It'd be natural evolution if it wasn't a game that has biweekly updates and a yearly overhaul.

[@paparatzee3552]

What is so well defined? League isn't we still in beta? There's like a hundreds of bugs stil getting discovered every dayl

[@SirBackPack]

Can’t be natural for hen half of the AD items have ranged penalties but mages don’t have any for range. Plus marksmen items get nerfed harder than other roles and they still haven’t made crit 200% again. That’s when marksmen lost their identity. A crit should be 200% and IE should be even more

[@charlieb8735]

Last time I played a moba with any intensity was when DotA was a WC3 mod so I admit my ignorance as a caveat. That being said, even in those days I never understood why any given lane should determined the type of character that should be occupying it. I’m confident I’m missing something but I have tried looking for an explanation and cane away with nothing

[@bsod111]

botlane is probably the least diverse lane in terms of picks, since you kinda traditionally have crit marksmen and on hit marksmen. but mages go bot too, because in league they never run out of mana and provide a lot of DPS due to cooldown reduction from their items. it's just that crit marksmen are always in a bad spot, since riot are too afraid to give them good items. it got so bad that in the last few patches melee midlaners yone and yasuo, who are specifically designed to build crit items, didn't even buy crit items and went towards bruiser core items, maybe crit later, because crit just sucks

[@Honneylemz]

They need to make ADC's very weak in the early game but spikes earlier in the midgame around level 9 so you can't just pick them in a solo lane while still being a very viable pick once they survive the laning phase. The item choices need to some considerations as well with more reliable tank shredding items and viable survivability options. If ADCs can actually start carrying at their 2 item spikes, people would consider picking them more in the bot lane.

[@WowWeAreOblivous]

I think a possible option would be to give all marksmen the old mord passive where he would get extra xp in a duo lane. Now that only fixes early game. The last game would need to be something like a GA but maybe while ressing it allows you to reposition. That would only be available for duo lane marksmen. The programming would be difficult to figure out but then you have ADC ahead in lane phase with an ability to be a bit more tanky if the dives are happening. Then if they do get bursted they have an item option to buy into to move and possibly be a part of the team fight. There are issues with this being a possible making adc OP issue but at least this puts them into a better play state that could at least be a new solution maybe.

[@SFUTH]

I'm reminded of 2018 when ADC was significantly nerfed and the botlane meta was stuff like yasuo and vladimir.

[@Re3p4rr]

They are just dumbing down the game as hard as possible so beginners dont stop playing and a skill based role Like ADC suffers from that

[@CraftyF0X]

Here's a wild idea, maybe introduce back tanks. If Ahri Akali or whatever, couldn't murder your "tank" with one spell combo. and the "tank" could kiill the adc with one initiation, we'd have something for the adc to do...

[@ashtonshephard3852]

That limits ADC choices to tank busters, adcs with percent health in their kit

[@andreitaker3527]

The only way to address the problem is if they stop pigeon holing 98% of marksman into Adc role. Let marksman get use on other lane and let other class be played on the Carry role like in Dota.

[@Banguila]

people make confusions about this topic, it is not about adc champions, it's about the role adc, playing bot lane and having to carry, it's so frustrating...

[@JoyKazuhira]

decades after and we still do not get the killean the zilean dance

[@NoisyyCricket]

My buddy quit league years ago because he saw this coming. For some reason 95% of all Champs have a blink or dash for the sake of making the game faster paced and it's damaging the game more than helping

[@robertherbst9487]

Sick Opeth shirt

[@vibrances]

All we've been seeing for like 20 patches in row are nerfs bc riot made adc solo laners strong and massively nerfed gold scaling. Player perception is incredibly important to a game like league imo, and NOBODY would feel good after seeing their items get nerfed EVERY SINGLE PATCH, it also just gives the placebo effect that adc is even weaker than it is because of it. The collector, yuntal and essence reaver changes massively suck imo by nerfing scaling even harder just to give us a cheaper first item :/ I don't play adc to have early game agency, I do it to collect items throughout a game knowing that I will be a monster late game if I play well.

[@JoannaHiggins-nr1ky]

This mood in here is perfect!

[@redmouse22]

Enchanters go top === 'Aww hell nah get that creativity out of the game' Burst mages bottom === 'lol just get with the times adc players' I dont mind either approach to the game design, I just wish it was consistent

[@TheIdeaTree]

The only way it can happen is if you overload marksman items with stats. Which is what they were several patches ago. Tons of ms, as, as, and crit in every item or bust essentially

[@swagrid5185]

totally off-topic but dimitri seems to have a great music taste

[@mo0rkszz94]

I used to play adc bot, but was unable to progress from Gold, so I swaped top kayn, and all of a sudden I am climbing again. I am still ultra low elo, but I can see the difference.

[@daghetto101]

Time to get a BKB/Olaf ult summoner spell riot. This would make ADC balanced.

[@marcolobos6749]

The mobility nowadays is insane.. almost every new champ has a mobility spell with low CD...

[@c9manic959]

The balance team has spent the past 4 years making ADC viable for a few weeks at a time and then overcorrecting back away because pro play will start to play around, get this, protecting the DPS. The problem is, that the ADC in solo lane meta wasn't even because ADC was overtuned. It was because Corki was overtuned and and you could get all of the AP you needed from a comp out of the jungler. On top of it. It was really only ever a problem in Pro play, and the nimrod community was like "OMG, OMG, ADC's ARE EVERYWHERE RITO PLS NERF, I SAW ZEUS PLAY ZERI TOP." while having the cognitive dissonance necessary to ignore that these picks had sub 1% pick rates and like 45% win rates in soloqueue (and clowning ADC mains every time they complained about mages in the bottom lane having like 52-55% win rates due to them only having like a 1.5% pick rate).

[@solid.4]

i miss old jhin where he deals a right amount of absurd damage and you can really kite with him, nowadays he's just a walking absurd damage and not as fast as the previous years jhin

[@kristianrybar8082]

My man has the new Opeth longsleeve. Nice.

[@golternator333]

Riot nerfed attack speed heavily, so that adcs would be bad. This happened around 2016.

[@CAPTAINCHAOS_]

Showing Cho’Gath who is known for his massive burst and low to none mobility was… a choice.

[@khaagos]

I would like Rito to stop giving tanks DASHES, please!

[@ricardobelcredi9557]

IDEA, The Identity problem can be solved by giving all adc champs a small amount of flat true damage and % armour shred, scaling on level so they can fucking kill tanks better. like they are supposed to, make it so that it procs on units over a certain amount of health.

[@Frightning]

This meta shift has been over 5 years in the making...The original reasons we got ADC+support bot lane are no longer all true, and because of that, the conclusion that Fnatic reached *all* the way back in season 1 that lead to this meta being a thing in LoL is not longer true. Bot lane is no longer the safest lane (that's mid now, btw), ADCs are both more level dependent and less gold dependent than they *used* to be (because they actually have steroids and abilities that actually provide damage now to a much greater extent than in season 1). Because of this, imo, the solo lanes are now the best places to play marksmen (mid for those with good waveclear and top for those with mobility/escape tools). This opens the bot lane+support pair to be basically anything, and now people are, very slowly starting to learn what *else* besides marksmen work in bot lane (the real insight here is that bot lane is actually won by duo lane synergy more so than the bot position pick or support pick in isolation, that is to say you want to find the most busted pair of champions you can put into 1 lane to stomp bot lane and get your duo and your team ahead early).

[@SilverTheHedgehog33]

LoL has a dmgcreep problem for the last 5-6 years and here its the main problem too. In the old clip it took several skillshots, on 10+ Autoattacks to kill each other. Multiple reasons lead to Dmgcreep: Increase in Gold, Riot optimising Items, Champions got more powerfull overall, etc. Riot will not change this back, because the game will be slower and less attractive. This is the main problems for ADCs too. They didnt get much defensiv stats in these years timeframe(they actually lost some while dmg increased). Higher dps over time becomes irrelevant, when everything is burstable. Or it becomes OP, when dps becomes too high and it turns into burst...

[@MangoMotors]

This is also a consequence of Riot trying to have hard defined roles and places for champions and map state. Not to mention the fact that league is balanced to have the same balancing for all skill level. It's actually such a weird thing because imagine if high school, college, and pro basketball used the same ruleset. But that's essentially what we are doing. but at the same time, I also know it's not possible for there to be different balances or else players would have to learn different balance as they climbed up and down the ranks.

[@tri3sweat]

the class system of league of legends will be it's downfall

[@billytran3692]

I imagine this is a byproduct of them increasing damage over the lifetime of seasons. Things like kiting mattered more when the average game time was 45 minutes instead of 30ish. I’m not necessarily saying it’s a bad thing, it’s just what’s happened

[@musicaltarrasque]

The solution is to rewards attacking more times, vs attacking with stronger attacks

[@evanjacob8463]

The non ADC bot laners have less PR than adcs.

[@RumorThe1st]

Make all adc have bonus on objectives likes turrets, nash, dragons etc. when I say bonus I mean a really big buff. Make them an objective role

[@gingeroxide]

Adc main of nine years. Peaked d2. People are coping at this point and refusing to grow. You have to know how to properly itemize and use correct runes on a game to game basis now to be able to succeed. Buying cloth armor/negatron cloak early makes a difference if there's assassins. Crit is good now on more champs than you'd think if you buy the correct first item. Like, get creative instead of taking the doomer pill time after time.

[@TM-pb8ky]

They clearly haven’t watched a single major region match in the last 3 years

[@Subchesire]

It's been so long that I'm don't remember if season 8-9 adc was better, but I'm assuming it was better because of pre item rework

[@csenky]

Tanks should be literally unkillable by assassins and (most) mages. That would give something the ADCs to be worth saving for. The main ADC role was to destroy tanks through sustained damage while kiting them. Look at the game now, most liandry mages (even from support position) can kill a jacked up cho gath or mundo in half the time an ADC could even dream of. That's a fucking joke.

[@krystofmares8857]

Idk guys, botline still has 50% winrate, I think all is fine

[@jakiuljedan7836]

In WILD RIFT ADC just one shot us before we can even walk upto the minion wave for farm let alone team fight

[@pagogaming2268]

It's understandable every other champ minus support is incredibly independent. They almost always never need the help of another champ to fully maximize their own champ. But adcs are different. Their entire life and sake is dependent on their support being competent or not. And worse after the laning phase their dependence now spreads out to the entire team and not just the support. They almost always cannot do anything on their own. This is why most of those screw offs adcs always want their own independent of some form but we and everyone know that if we were to give them any form of that independent they will curb stomp the entire fucking game. Riot needs to make a lot of fixes if they really wanna make adcs viable without making them op af and invading every other lane

[@jacksonslack-rm9yv]

In silver adc feels pretty good, you just have to stomp lane

[@brunobatista9671]

kiting is a really difficult mechanic, spam W with kaisa is way more easy and efficient

[@zStC1]

Riot needs to fix this bullshit. How did they not see this happening when you nerfed every ad item in game.

[@Timeforspas12]

When even this channel is noticing how mages botlane are a better pick overall than an actual adc is mind-blowing. Riot sees it and shrughs it as noise.

[@advbassdrop3956]

Riot August when people ask why is this okay "what I dont see nothing"

[@simpabla1068]

Its a fundamental problem with solo queue though. The game is a team game, but everyone wants to be the carry. Instead of other roles carrying through other means, i.e. ap damage against squishies only, cc, initiation, shields, heals, vision control, etc., it became everyone wants to be able to kill everyone. Even something as simple as you need an adc to take turrets got changed so that ap champs get bonus damage to structures based on their ap and bruisers/tanks have items like hullbreaker to do bonus damage. If damage from range was the identity of adcs, and you give every role damage and ability to negate range or stats to ignore damage, what is left for an adc to do? For context, I hit diamond for the first time playing adc last season, so I've played from bronze rank to diamond rank and its a shitshow everywhere( a little less as you climb, but still).

[@Mouchy3800]

The only problem with Kaisa,s w is that its bigger then my mom.

[@worldiefeard8396]

Spoilers: the item rework changed nothing. Soloqueue botlane situation is still the exact same.

[@Chance-vl2wc]

Mythic Items should come back.

[@houkis]

Imo ADC should be called Carry with out AD, because every other role in the game has to play different champs: toplane- tanks, marksmens, bruisers; jungle- ap carries, bruisers, assassins, tanks; midlane- mages, marksmens, assassins, sometimes bruisers or a tanks; supports- enchanters, tanks, mages. I think the name of the role is what's bad about it and misleads on what the role is all about - carrying.

[@EmilCalderon-n6n]

Same thing I was thinking. The problem is the word "adc" it's way too narrow of explanation. It's the same thing as calling midlane -> mage or toplane -> tank. Primary roll of a botlaner is consistent damage

[@cgktheking]

C

[@V_continuous_V]

I love riot, full tank mundo is faster than kalista, has slow with like 0 cd, has 5k hp, does as much damage as kalista while building 0 ad ❤❤❤

[@piman5415]

great videos, keep up the good work 🤩

[@Eisenthorn4179]

League really needs a BKB-like item. Even just being spell immune for 1 sec is enough. QSS is such a dogshit expensive item

[@lorgue7116]

Why is kog maw on the same category as the others? he may not build crit but he still is just as vulnerable (if not more) than any other tradicional adc. if i we're to argue, he relyies more on kiting than almost any other adc

[@worldiefeard8396]

I take you've not seen the atrocity that the hybrid AP kogmaw build that popped out last month was. Nashor Guinsoo and full AP afterwards. Still machineguns you like Kog usually does, except it kills you in 3 hits cause of the insane AP scalings he has.

[@picklesplaysgames975]

Hey Dimitri, nice Opeth shirt my guy :D

[@jodycwilliams]

Flash was the worst thing ever put into the game, and they said that many years ago, then kept making more dashes.

[@UnderbossProductions]

As an ADC main, yes.

[@yummi9915]

Make tanks less OP. Lower their dmg. Make ADCs do more damage or faster.

[@Secondgearbilly]

Wish yall would have touched more on the actual problem with the role, when riot gets too generous with adc buff….. they get played in every other role and dominate….. range vs melee debacle, it’s impossible to balance any other way than ranged characters have weaker stats early

[@ΖέφυροςΈρεβος]

No adcs are real. Their objective is to counter the biggest enemy threat. Using itemization. And make sure you pick the best champ to synergize with the team. But yes I don't deny it is survival horror.

[@ΖέφυροςΈρεβος]

Double died to a high armor/hp cho because he was dealing 70 to 90 percent autos with an AP build and zero armor penetration, at melee range, on a bush, with no peel.

[@ΖέφυροςΈρεβος]

There are several but very miniscule things that any marksman needs to pay attention to more than any roles. And no vision on bush can be very lethal.

[@Frightning]

ADC champs are honest OK, but they are not the best thing to take in the duo lane often times anymore. When I can take Yone bot lane with a soloque support and *win my lane* consistently, let alone doing that with Yasuo whose *actually good in bot lane* (better WR there than mid even) why even play ADC there? It's not a safe lane, the level 2 in the duo lane is the most common source of first bloods in high elo outside of invades because having 2 champions that are level 2 v. 2 that are level 1 is a massive chasm of power difference that even in top lane isn't matched. Add to this that bottom tower has *no* protection from damage for the first 5 minutes unlike mid and top that take 85% reduced damage from champions for the first 5 minutes, and a won fight in bot lane almost always yields tower plates, snowballing the lane even further in favor of the duo that's winning. Mid meanwhile is the safest it's ever been with the brush being so far out on the sides now, so long as you have waveclear and know how to manage your wave state you will be almost permanently ungankable and will get solo xp and reliable farm (the two things an ADC wants most in lane). Like unless you just can't play the 1v1 matchup at all v. enemy mid pick it's fine and can even be winning (I've won more than a few mid lanes playing ADCs such as Sivir, Xayah, and Ashe there for example, nevermind that Cait mid was meta for a while there).

[@aldwinjasperjoniega8973]

How about removing those darned ap ratios on said ADC? Only way riot could stop people from playing them AP

[@Tomtankill]

This is low effort reporting. Top 8 based on WR could be interpreted as these champs abuse surprise/unfamiliar tactics with low play rates. Worlds meta is not filled with burst meta and feels very adc-centric because of the dps they put out. Look back a few years with aphel burst maybe?

[@Oldmanproblem]

Give adc there own item shop

[@shedblood1645]

I played league for 12 years straight and quit this season cuz adc just isn’t fun any more I was an adc main for 10 years till it got shitty and now I just come and go

[@nacl-y9513]

Tbf the position in game is called "bottom" not "adc" 😂😂

[@Gavo172]

It's just a problematic role in general. If it's too consistent and strong in casual play it's going to be busted in pro play, and the game is a lot more fast-paced now because people frankly have a lot less patience for games that last as long as old league used to. I don't know the answer. But I think the issues that the role is facing are core to the issues League is facing as a whole with a player base that is used to faster and faster things.

[@theLasermans]

This is just a validation circlejerk for all the adc to gather to validate why they cant climb.

[@advbassdrop3956]

Found top/mid

[@zlatyan]

This what happens when you give a moba runes masteries keystones perks talents and a buncha other carp that end up ruining or limiting game balance. League is 2 years from now is gonna be a battle royale.

[@reesingu964]

Thanks for explaining how the Japanese death penalty works, but I failed to see how it’s evil. Maybe I missed something? A guy who rams his car into a crowd and starts stabbing people to death? IMO, this death penalty is still too lax. As for innocent people getting the death penalty, definitely unfortunate. Not sure there’s a perfect solution for that as we live in an imperfect world. But the solution probably isn’t to remove a big deterrence to heinous crimes.

[@kataro100]

ADC call cry baby cause the are not allow to be strong in early or mid game. People that give hate to ADC are usually those that win lane dont help their team get stronger and delayed the game to late game and lose. Another problem with ADC is the lose their right click attack. Old league is a mix of micro + skill shot. Now league is about position and skill shot. Also mobility use to be expansive.

[@Jordanox]

crazy video!!

[@bursky09]

With BLG vs HLE it showed us that indeed adc is easily the weakest role.